date:20200225

Nope, wrong.    Almost all designs use compression off one of the 
engines that actually compresses/heats the air.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_pressurization

I was wrong about 80% its 50% and the recirc is hepa filtered. Who wants 
to change those  filters?


On 2/25/20 3:03 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
This is correct. Aircraft is at most 10% recycled air. They have HEPA 
filters for the recycled air.


Turning the nozzle on above you and blowing it over you actually 
creates a “cone of safety” that blows bacteria and virus away from you.


On Feb 25, 2020, at 4:40 AM, Adam Moffett > wrote:


I read that they don't really recirculate the air.  They have an 
intake at the front and a relief valve at the back. Pressure outside 
the plane is low, but forward motion of the plane compresses it to a 
higher pressure and the valve stops it from getting too high.


Sounds like it would be safest in first class ;)

On 2/24/2020 10:57 PM, Robert wrote:

Very similar to an Commercial airliner with 80 percent recirculation...

On 2/24/20 8:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


A cruise ship is like a 5,000 seat petri dish.

bp


On 2/23/2020 11:05 AM, Robert wrote:
Hmmm, I don't think they used trench/squat toilets on the cruise 
ship, I'm pretty sure they don't use them in S. Korea and a severe 
case percentage of 20% and confirmed death rate _by WHO_ of 2% vs 
.1 percent for flu is apples and oranges.   But you keep telling 
yourself what makes you feel safe.   Keep drinking the koolaid 
while the long storage food supplies are bought up.    ( check on 
Amazon what's still available vs. sold out ).   Let's see what the 
numbers are in S. Korea NEXT Sunday. and see what modern medicine 
can do.


On 2/23/20 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


[TINHATOFF]

It still after several weeks looks way overblown. It's beginning 
to look like the trench/squat toilets common in China (and not 
most other places) is the major disease vector.


Total cases in the US is only 35 individuals, and ZERO deaths.

Contrast this to the latest US-only flu data 
, with 29 million 
infections and 16,000 deaths. I think we are paying attention to 
the wrong things  (so what's new about that?).


[/TINHATOFF]

bp


On 2/23/2020 9:40 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Experts are starting to say it’s time to prepare for a pandemic, 
and that containment didn’t fail, containment was hopeless from 
the start.  More communicable than SARS, more deadly than 
seasonal flu.  Still remains to be seen how it plays out in 
countries with better (and worse) healthcare systems than China, 
but it’s gonna spread worldwide.  Masks, thermometers and 
quarantine don’t seem to be magic bullets.  Buy lots of hand 
soap, and stay off cruise ships.


https://www.vox.com/2020/2/23/21149327/coronavirus-pandemic-meaning-italy

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Colin Stanners
*Sent:* Sunday, February 23, 2020 12:58 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

 It seems that America's enemies know that the best 
way to have America's economy crumble is to let the Trump 
rallies go on fully unimpeded. 


A kill rate of 2% seems small as statistic, but that's still a 
few thousand currently dead, including many medical staff, who 
are being mourned by their friends and families. It's likely 
that the number of people killed by coronavirus will surpass 
that of the 9/11 attacks shortly.


Most frightening is that with its virulence, if uncontrolled it 
could infect or have infected millions or much more, then 
suddenly that 2% dead becomes unimaginable.


On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 11:55 PM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:


You dont think releasing something as hyped up as kungflu at
a major public gathering, especially a trump rally wouldnt
be a major terror success? CNN and MSNBC would be
advertising for the terrorists 24/7. By the time they were
done with it, it could have killed zero people, and everyone
would still be hid out in their house listening to their
propaganda. Our economy would crumble

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 9:14 PM Bill Prince
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Not for me. So far it has mostly been meh.

bp



On 2/22/2020 6:48 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

As a terror weapon it would be perfect

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 8:11 PM Bill Prince
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

Kill rate is far too low to be considered a
bio-weapon. Kill rate needs to be over 30%.

bp



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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

2020-02-25 Thread Matt Hoppes

https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/4345235/why-you-should-always-keep-your-air-vent-nozzle-open-on-a-flight/

On 2/25/20 8:10 AM, Robert wrote:
Nope, wrong. Almost all designs use compression off one of the
engines that actually compresses/heats the air.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_pressurization

I was wrong about 80% its 50% and the recirc is hepa filtered. Who wants
to change those filters?

On 2/25/20 3:03 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
This is correct. Aircraft is at most 10% recycled air. They have HEPA
filters for the recycled air.

Turning the nozzle on above you and blowing it over you actually
creates a “cone of safety” that blows bacteria and virus away from you.

On Feb 25, 2020, at 4:40 AM, Adam Moffett > wrote:

I read that they don't really recirculate the air. They have an
intake at the front and a relief valve at the back. Pressure outside
the plane is low, but forward motion of the plane compresses it to a
higher pressure and the valve stops it from getting too high.

Sounds like it would be safest in first class ;)

On 2/24/2020 10:57 PM, Robert wrote:

Very similar to an Commercial airliner with 80 percent recirculation...

On 2/24/20 8:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

A cruise ship is like a 5,000 seat petri dish.

On 2/23/2020 11:05 AM, Robert wrote:
Hmmm, I don't think they used trench/squat toilets on the cruise
ship, I'm pretty sure they don't use them in S. Korea and a severe
case percentage of 20% and confirmed death rate _by WHO_ of 2% vs
.1 percent for flu is apples and oranges. But you keep telling
yourself what makes you feel safe. Keep drinking the koolaid
while the long storage food supplies are bought up. ( check on
Amazon what's still available vs. sold out ). Let's see what the
numbers are in S. Korea NEXT Sunday. and see what modern medicine
can do.

On 2/23/20 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

[TINHATOFF]

It still after several weeks looks way overblown. It's beginning
to look like the trench/squat toilets common in China (and not
most other places) is the major disease vector.

Total cases in the US is only 35 individuals, and ZERO deaths.

Contrast this to the latest US-only flu data
, with 29 million
infections and 16,000 deaths. I think we are paying attention to
the wrong things (so what's new about that?).

[/TINHATOFF]

On 2/23/2020 9:40 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Experts are starting to say it’s time to prepare for a pandemic,
and that containment didn’t fail, containment was hopeless from
the start. More communicable than SARS, more deadly than
seasonal flu. Still remains to be seen how it plays out in
countries with better (and worse) healthcare systems than China,
but it’s gonna spread worldwide. Masks, thermometers and
quarantine don’t seem to be magic bullets. Buy lots of hand
soap, and stay off cruise ships.

https://www.vox.com/2020/2/23/21149327/coronavirus-pandemic-meaning-italy

*From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Colin Stanners
*Sent:* Sunday, February 23, 2020 12:58 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

It seems that America's enemies know that the best
way to have America's economy crumble is to let the Trump
rallies go on fully unimpeded.

A kill rate of 2% seems small as statistic, but that's still a
few thousand currently dead, including many medical staff, who
are being mourned by their friends and families. It's likely
that the number of people killed by coronavirus will surpass
that of the 9/11 attacks shortly.

Most frightening is that with its virulence, if uncontrolled it
could infect or have infected millions or much more, then
suddenly that 2% dead becomes unimaginable.

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 11:55 PM Steve Jones
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

You dont think releasing something as hyped up as kungflu at
a major public gathering, especially a trump rally wouldnt
be a major terror success? CNN and MSNBC would be
advertising for the terrorists 24/7. By the time they were
done with it, it could have killed zero people, and everyone
would still be hid out in their house listening to their
propaganda. Our economy would crumble

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 9:14 PM Bill Prince
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Not for me. So far it has mostly been meh.

On 2/22/2020 6:48 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

As a terror weapon it would be perfect

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 8:11 PM Bill Prince
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

Kill rate is far too low to be considered a
bio-weapon. Kill rate needs to be over 30%.

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Re: [AFMUG] New stuff

2020-02-25 Thread Tim Hardy

The TV aux band you speak of ends at 7.125 GHz.  The radio used here operates 
in the Gov’t 7-8 GHz (7.125 - 8.50 GHz) band managed by NTIA.  This is the band 
that FWCC, and CTIA among others is trying to get reallocated for sharing with 
Part 101 in an attempt to relocate paths from a portion of the current 6/7 GHz 
band.

> On Feb 24, 2020, at 11:48 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> 7 GHz is traditionally a TV backhaul band, but the FCC opened it up to 
> general use several use ago, with geographic restrictions.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>   
>  
>  
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>   
>  
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
>  
> 
> 
>  
> From: "Darin Steffl" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 8:15:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New stuff
> 
> Never heard of anything in those bands?
> 
> Who can use that spectrum and for what purpose? 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 7:13 PM Jaime Solorza  > wrote:
> Check these out...Janteq running at 1.830Ghz and Cambium at 7GHz...
> -- 
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> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> -- 
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> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

2020-02-25 Thread Chuck McCown


Mechanical or medical problem.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 24, 2020, at 9:10 PM, Robert  wrote:
> 
>  This a/c had radar altimeter...  youtube blancoliro channel for more.
> 
> On 2/24/20 11:17 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>> You'd never catch me flying in a chopper IFR unelss I had some sort of 
>> terrain following radar or radar altimeter.  Too many wind towers,  
>> powerlines,  and those pesky telecom towers .. 
>> 
>> I've flown with real chopper pilots and they always always are concerned 
>> with towers even though they need to stay above 500ft.  
>> 
>> Imagine fumbling around in this while you can't see a thing outside.  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Steven Kenney
>> Network Operations Manager
>> WaveDirect Telecommunications
>> http://www.wavedirect.net
>> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>> 
>> From: "Bill Prince" 
>> To: "af" 
>> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 2:04:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
>> 
>> The Sikorsky S-76B is a big bird. Not cheap. Maybe 10 to 13 million 
>> depending on condition.
>> 
>> I suspect this has some parallels to the thing with Bill Graham 20 years ago 
>> or something. I think Graham pressured the pilot to fly even though the 
>> conditions were not very good (awful at that time). They hit power lines in 
>> low visibility. 
>> 
>> Helicopter pilots can sometimes cut corners.
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>> 
>> On 2/24/2020 10:47 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>> Doubt it.  It was poor decision after poor decision.  Should never have 
>> flown.  Mist rolling in from the hills could obscure things below 1 mile 
>> easily.  Choppers and mountains don't mix with all the updrafts and 
>> unpredictable wind patterns.  ESPECIALLY downdrafts.  (I like to fly the 
>> Huey in DCS and its a pain to land with a slight downdraft)
>> 
>> Most choppers don't have much to navigate IFR other than an NDB if they are 
>> lucky they have a VOR which would require IFR and some preplanning.  
>> Especially in mountains.   I'd assume since he was rich as hell that they'd 
>> have a GPS capable nav air like a GNS 530 (pretty cheap) so it would have 
>> some nav aids but not necessarily terrain loaded.  
>> 
>> It was just dumb to press your luck in an aircraft not designed for IFR "on 
>> the fly" 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Steven Kenney
>> Network Operations Manager
>> WaveDirect Telecommunications
>> http://www.wavedirect.net
>> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>> 
>> From: "chuck" 
>> To: "af" 
>> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 1:03:43 PM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
>> 
>> OK, so I am bored.  Hit delete.
>>  
>> The pilot of the helicopter is getting trashed because he asked for SVFR 
>> (special VFR) and got denied on a prior flight.  He proceeded anyway.
>> On the crash flight he asked for VFR flight following.  They denied it due 
>> to his altitude.  I have had that happen to me dozens of times.  It does not 
>> indicate anything other than radar can only see so low. 
>>  
>> 91.155 
>> A helicopter may be operated clear of clouds if operated at a speed that 
>> allows the pilot adequate opportunity to see any air traffic or obstruction 
>> in time to avoid a collision.
>>  
>> 91.157
>> This part allows helicopters to fly SVFR even when flight visibility is 
>> below 1 statute mile when required for other aircraft. 
>> This part also allows helicopters to operate SVFR at night while other 
>> aircraft would have to be IFR certified with an instrument rated pilot.
>> This part allows helicopters to take off or land a helicopter even when the 
>> ground visibility is below 1 statute mile.
>>  
>> On the prior flight people are using to claim he was a bad pilot, he was 
>> proceeding low and slow as allowed but he was in a particular area of 
>> controlled airspace that required permission to do so.  Not that it was 
>> reckless or dangerous.
>> His only other option was trying to file what is called a “pop up” IFR 
>> flight plan.  I have had to do that before when the weather changed.  It is 
>> a pain, takes some radio time to do but it is a legal way forward.  Or he 
>> could have found a place to land perhaps.  He got busted doing what was 
>> probably the safest, but not legal,  thing to do. 
>>  
>> I don’t think this calls his skills into question. 
>>  
>> The ship was flying but doing a rapid turning descent for some time before 
>> the crash. 
>> Either he got really bad vertigo or he was attempting to autorotate due to a 
>> mechanical failure. 
>> I don’t think he got vertigo.  When you are in the clouds you use the 
>> autopilot if you have one.  He had one. 
>> He was a high time IFR rated pilot. 
>> If you hit clouds you mind switches to using the instruments and getting 
>> yourself out of trouble or staying out of trouble.  . 
>>  
>> This was a Sikorsky S-76B  Very large helicopter.  Has an auto pilot and 
>> almost certainly had an auto hover feature due to the fact that it was used 
>> for search and rescue in a prior life.  You can simply stop them and hover 
>> if you find yours

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

2020-02-25 Thread Mike Hammett

What is the strain designation of the current "crisis" coronavirus? 


As I said earlier, they are testing for some strains of coronavirus. I've 
attached a screenshot of results of mine from January for diagnosing a 
"regular" sickness that I had. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Matt Hoppes"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 12:58:27 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock) 

Remember - we aren’t really testing here in the U. S. Right now. 

All you have to look at are pneumonia deaths - which are high this year. 
-- 
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

Those all appear to just be the normal common cold coronaviruses. This one
would be COVID-2019 or something like that.

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 8:30 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> What is the strain designation of the current "crisis" coronavirus?
>
> As I said earlier, they are testing for some strains of coronavirus. I've
> attached a screenshot of results of mine from January for diagnosing a
> "regular" sickness that I had.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Matt Hoppes" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 25, 2020 12:58:27 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)
>
> Remember - we aren’t really testing here in the U. S. Right now.
>
> All you have to look at are pneumonia deaths - which are high this year.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

Interesting contradiction there, as they say clean your hands after
touching the vent as it's one of the most contaminated articles on the
aircraft, but that's where you get the cleanest air.. H... I
guess turn it on while you aren't sitting under it to start?

On 2/25/20 5:15 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/4345235/why-you-should-always-keep-your-air-vent-nozzle-open-on-a-flight/

On 2/25/20 8:10 AM, Robert wrote:
Nope, wrong. Almost all designs use compression off one of the
engines that actually compresses/heats the air.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_pressurization

I was wrong about 80% its 50% and the recirc is hepa filtered. Who
wants to change those filters?

On 2/25/20 3:03 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
This is correct. Aircraft is at most 10% recycled air. They have
HEPA filters for the recycled air.

Turning the nozzle on above you and blowing it over you actually
creates a “cone of safety” that blows bacteria and virus away from you.

On Feb 25, 2020, at 4:40 AM, Adam Moffett > wrote:

I read that they don't really recirculate the air. They have an
intake at the front and a relief valve at the back. Pressure
outside the plane is low, but forward motion of the plane
compresses it to a higher pressure and the valve stops it from
getting too high.

Sounds like it would be safest in first class ;)

On 2/24/2020 10:57 PM, Robert wrote:
Very similar to an Commercial airliner with 80 percent
recirculation...

On 2/24/20 8:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

A cruise ship is like a 5,000 seat petri dish.

On 2/23/2020 11:05 AM, Robert wrote:
Hmmm, I don't think they used trench/squat toilets on the cruise
ship, I'm pretty sure they don't use them in S. Korea and a
severe case percentage of 20% and confirmed death rate _by WHO_
of 2% vs .1 percent for flu is apples and oranges. But you
keep telling yourself what makes you feel safe. Keep drinking
the koolaid while the long storage food supplies are bought
up. ( check on Amazon what's still available vs. sold out
). Let's see what the numbers are in S. Korea NEXT Sunday. and
see what modern medicine can do.

On 2/23/20 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

[TINHATOFF]

It still after several weeks looks way overblown. It's
beginning to look like the trench/squat toilets common in China
(and not most other places) is the major disease vector.

Total cases in the US is only 35 individuals, and ZERO deaths.

Contrast this to the latest US-only flu data
, with 29 million
infections and 16,000 deaths. I think we are paying attention
to the wrong things (so what's new about that?).

[/TINHATOFF]

On 2/23/2020 9:40 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Experts are starting to say it’s time to prepare for a
pandemic, and that containment didn’t fail, containment was
hopeless from the start. More communicable than SARS, more
deadly than seasonal flu. Still remains to be seen how it
plays out in countries with better (and worse) healthcare
systems than China, but it’s gonna spread worldwide. Masks,
thermometers and quarantine don’t seem to be magic bullets.
Buy lots of hand soap, and stay off cruise ships.

https://www.vox.com/2020/2/23/21149327/coronavirus-pandemic-meaning-italy

*From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Colin
Stanners

*Sent:* Sunday, February 23, 2020 12:58 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

It seems that America's enemies know that the best
way to have America's economy crumble is to let the Trump
rallies go on fully unimpeded.

Most frightening is that with its virulence, if uncontrolled
it could infect or have infected millions or much more, then
suddenly that 2% dead becomes unimaginable.

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 11:55 PM Steve Jones
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 9:14 PM Bill Prince
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Not for me. So far it has mostly been meh.

On 2/22/2020 6:48 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

As a terror weapon it would be perfect

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 8:11 PM Bill Prince
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)


Covid-19

On 2/25/20 6:29 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

What is the strain designation of the current "crisis" coronavirus?

As I said earlier, they are testing for some strains of coronavirus. 
I've attached a screenshot of results of mine from January for 
diagnosing a "regular" sickness that I had.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Matt Hoppes" 
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
*Sent: *Tuesday, February 25, 2020 12:58:27 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

Remember - we aren’t really testing here in the U. S. Right now.

All you have to look at are pneumonia deaths - which are high this year.
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

2020-02-25 Thread Ken Hohhof

I wonder how this company feels about it:

http://www.covid.com/shop.aspx

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:25 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

 

Covid-19

On 2/25/20 6:29 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

What is the strain designation of the current "crisis" coronavirus? 

 

As I said earlier, they are testing for some strains of coronavirus. I've 
attached a screenshot of results of mine from January for diagnosing a 
"regular" sickness that I had.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Matt Hoppes"   

To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"   

Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 12:58:27 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

Remember - we aren’t really testing here in the U. S. Right now. 

All you have to look at are pneumonia deaths - which are high this year. 
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 





 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

2020-02-25 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
Recirculating air would not be a vector, as it's been established
  this virus is not airborne, except by physical droplets. It's all
  about what/who you touch or get over-spray from nearby coughs and
  sneezes.


bp



On 2/24/2020 7:57 PM, Robert wrote:


  
  Very similar to an Commercial airliner with 80 percent
recirculation...
  
  On 2/24/20 8:17 AM, Bill Prince
wrote:
  
  

A cruise ship is like a 5,000 seat petri dish.

bp



On 2/23/2020 11:05 AM, Robert
  wrote:


  
  Hmmm, I don't think they used trench/squat toilets on the
cruise ship, I'm pretty sure they don't use them in S. Korea
and a severe case percentage of 20% and confirmed death rate
_by WHO_ of 2% vs .1 percent for flu is apples and
oranges.   But you keep telling yourself what makes you feel
safe.   Keep drinking the koolaid while the long storage
food supplies are bought up.    ( check on Amazon what's
still available vs. sold out ).   Let's see what the numbers
are in S. Korea NEXT Sunday. and see what modern medicine
can do.   
  
  On 2/23/20 10:19 AM, Bill Prince
wrote:
  
  

[TINHATOFF]
It still after several weeks looks way overblown. It's
  beginning to look like the trench/squat toilets common in
  China (and not most other places) is the major disease
  vector.
Total cases in the US is only 35 individuals, and ZERO
  deaths.
Contrast this to the latest
US-only flu data, with 29 million infections and
  16,000 deaths. I think we are paying attention to the
  wrong things  (so what's new about that?).

[/TINHATOFF]

bp



On 2/23/2020 9:40 AM, Ken
  Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
Experts are starting to say it’s
  time to prepare for a pandemic, and that containment
  didn’t fail, containment was hopeless from the start. 
  More communicable than SARS, more deadly than seasonal
  flu.  Still remains to be seen how it plays out in
  countries with better (and worse) healthcare systems
  than China, but it’s gonna spread worldwide.  Masks,
  thermometers and quarantine don’t seem to be magic
  bullets.  Buy lots of hand soap, and stay off cruise
  ships.
 
https://www.vox.com/2020/2/23/21149327/coronavirus-pandemic-meaning-italy
 
 
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of Colin Stanners
  Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2020 12:58 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT
  stock)
 

   It seems that
America's enemies know that the best way to have
America's economy crumble is to let the Trump
rallies go on fully unimpeded. 
  
 
  
  
A kill rate of 2% seems small
  as statistic, but that's still a few thousand
  currently dead, including many medical staff, who
  are being mourned by their friends and families.
  It's likely that the number of people killed by
  coronavirus will surpass that of the 9/11 attacks
  shortly.
  
  
 
  
  
Most frightening is that with
  its virulence, if uncontrolled it could infect or
  have infected millions or much more, then suddenly
  that 2% dead becomes unimaginable.
  
  
 

  
On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 11:55
  PM Steve Jones 
  wrote:
  
  

  You dont think releasing
something as hyped up as kungflu at a major
public gathering, especially a trump rally
wouldnt be a major terror success? CNN and

Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

2020-02-25 Thread Cameron Crum

A good friend of mine flew helos in the Army and is rated on everything
from Apaches to Chinooks, and is now a helo pilot instructor. After looking
at the FAA video and the stuff they have released, he said it was simply
controlled flight into terrain. Basically, the guy didn't know where he was
and flew that thing right into that hillside. He probably saw the ground at
the last second and pulled up, but by then it was too late.

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 8:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> 
> Mechanical or medical problem.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 24, 2020, at 9:10 PM, Robert  wrote:
>
>  This a/c had radar altimeter...  youtube blancoliro channel for more.
>
> On 2/24/20 11:17 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>
> You'd never catch me flying in a chopper IFR unelss I had some sort of
> terrain following radar or radar altimeter.  Too many wind towers,
> powerlines,  and those pesky telecom towers ..
>
> I've flown with real chopper pilots and they always always are concerned
> with towers even though they need to stay above 500ft.
>
> Imagine fumbling around in this while you can't see a thing outside.
>
> [image: N5NJ | Sikorsky S-76B | Untitled | Cam | JetPhotos]
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
> --
> *From: *"Bill Prince"  
> *To: *"af"  
> *Sent: *Monday, February 24, 2020 2:04:32 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
>
> The Sikorsky S-76B is a big bird. Not cheap. Maybe 10 to 13 million
> depending on condition.
>
> I suspect this has some parallels to the thing with Bill Graham 20 years
> ago or something. I think Graham pressured the pilot to fly even though the
> conditions were not very good (awful at that time). They hit power lines in
> low visibility.
>
> Helicopter pilots can sometimes cut corners.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 2/24/2020 10:47 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>
> Doubt it.  It was poor decision after poor decision.  Should never have
> flown.  Mist rolling in from the hills could obscure things below 1 mile
> easily.  Choppers and mountains don't mix with all the updrafts and
> unpredictable wind patterns.  ESPECIALLY downdrafts.  (I like to fly the
> Huey in DCS and its a pain to land with a slight downdraft)
>
> Most choppers don't have much to navigate IFR other than an NDB if they
> are lucky they have a VOR which would require IFR and some preplanning.
> Especially in mountains.   I'd assume since he was rich as hell that they'd
> have a GPS capable nav air like a GNS 530 (pretty cheap) so it would have
> some nav aids but not necessarily terrain loaded.
>
> It was just dumb to press your luck in an aircraft not designed for IFR
> "on the fly"
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
> --
> *From: *"chuck"  
> *To: *"af"  
> *Sent: *Monday, February 24, 2020 1:03:43 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
>
> OK, so I am bored.  Hit delete.
>
> The pilot of the helicopter is getting trashed because he asked for SVFR
> (special VFR) and got denied on a prior flight.  He proceeded anyway.
> On the crash flight he asked for VFR flight following.  They denied it due
> to his altitude.  I have had that happen to me dozens of times.  It does
> not indicate anything other than radar can only see so low.
>
> 91.155
> A helicopter may be operated clear of clouds if operated at a speed that
> allows the pilot adequate opportunity to see any air traffic or obstruction
> in time to avoid a collision.
>
> 91.157
> This part allows helicopters to fly SVFR even when flight visibility is
> below 1 statute mile when required for other aircraft.
> This part also allows helicopters to operate SVFR at night while other
> aircraft would have to be IFR certified with an instrument rated pilot.
> This part allows helicopters to take off or land a helicopter even when
> the ground visibility is below 1 statute mile.
>
> On the prior flight people are using to claim he was a bad pilot, he was
> proceeding low and slow as allowed but he was in a particular area of
> controlled airspace that required permission to do so.  Not that it was
> reckless or dangerous.
> His only other option was trying to file what is called a “pop up” IFR
> flight plan.  I have had to do that before when the weather changed.  It is
> a pain, takes some radio time to do but it is a legal way forward.  Or he
> could have found a place to land perhaps.  He got busted doing what was
> probably the safest, but not legal,  thing to do.
>
> I don’t think this calls his skills into question.
>
> The ship was flying but doing a rapid turning descent for some time before
> the crash.
> Either he got really bad vertigo or he was attempting to autorotate due to
> a mechanical failure.
> I don’t think he got vertigo.  When you are in the clouds you use the
> autopilot if you

Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

5000 fpm descent for 15 seconds is not controlled flight.  I don’t think you 
can get 5000 fpm even with full collective down and autorotation.
He would have had to do full collective down plus cyclic pushed forward and to 
the left.  To me that sounds like a medical incident.  

From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

A good friend of mine flew helos in the Army and is rated on everything from 
Apaches to Chinooks, and is now a helo pilot instructor. After looking at the 
FAA video and the stuff they have released, he said it was simply controlled 
flight into terrain. Basically, the guy didn't know where he was and flew that 
thing right into that hillside. He probably saw the ground at the last second 
and pulled up, but by then it was too late. 

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 8:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Mechanical or medical problem.

  Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 24, 2020, at 9:10 PM, Robert  wrote:

 This a/c had radar altimeter...  youtube blancoliro channel for more.

On 2/24/20 11:17 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

  You'd never catch me flying in a chopper IFR unelss I had some sort of 
terrain following radar or radar altimeter.  Too many wind towers,  powerlines, 
 and those pesky telecom towers .. 

  I've flown with real chopper pilots and they always always are concerned 
with towers even though they need to stay above 500ft.  

  Imagine fumbling around in this while you can't see a thing outside.  

  -- 
  Steven Kenney
  Network Operations Manager
  WaveDirect Telecommunications
  http://www.wavedirect.net
  (519)737-WAVE (9283)

--

  From: "Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com
  To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 2:04:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

  The Sikorsky S-76B is a big bird. Not cheap. Maybe 10 to 13 million 
depending on condition.

  I suspect this has some parallels to the thing with Bill Graham 20 years 
ago or something. I think Graham pressured the pilot to fly even though the 
conditions were not very good (awful at that time). They hit power lines in low 
visibility. 

  Helicopter pilots can sometimes cut corners.

bp

On 2/24/2020 10:47 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

Doubt it.  It was poor decision after poor decision.  Should never have 
flown.  Mist rolling in from the hills could obscure things below 1 mile 
easily.  Choppers and mountains don't mix with all the updrafts and 
unpredictable wind patterns.  ESPECIALLY downdrafts.  (I like to fly the Huey 
in DCS and its a pain to land with a slight downdraft) 

Most choppers don't have much to navigate IFR other than an NDB if they 
are lucky they have a VOR which would require IFR and some preplanning.  
Especially in mountains.   I'd assume since he was rich as hell that they'd 
have a GPS capable nav air like a GNS 530 (pretty cheap) so it would have some 
nav aids but not necessarily terrain loaded.  

It was just dumb to press your luck in an aircraft not designed for IFR 
"on the fly" 

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

From: "chuck" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 1:03:43 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

OK, so I am bored.  Hit delete.

The pilot of the helicopter is getting trashed because he asked for 
SVFR (special VFR) and got denied on a prior flight.  He proceeded anyway.
On the crash flight he asked for VFR flight following.  They denied it 
due to his altitude.  I have had that happen to me dozens of times.  It does 
not indicate anything other than radar can only see so low.  

91.155  
A helicopter may be operated clear of clouds if operated at a speed 
that allows the pilot adequate opportunity to see any air traffic or 
obstruction in time to avoid a collision. 

91.157 
This part allows helicopters to fly SVFR even when flight visibility is 
below 1 statute mile when required for other aircraft.  
This part also allows helicopters to operate SVFR at night while other 
aircraft would have to be IFR certified with an instrument rated pilot. 
This part allows helicopters to take off or land a helicopter even when 
the ground visibility is below 1 statute mile.

On the prior flight people are using to claim he was a bad pilot, he 
was proceeding low and slow as allowed but he was in a particular area of 
controlled airspace that required permission to do so.  Not that it was 
reckl

Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

2020-02-25 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
Where are you getting the information on the flight profile?


bp



On 2/25/2020 8:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  5000 fpm descent for 15 seconds is not controlled
flight.  I don’t think you can get 5000 fpm even with full
collective down and autorotation.
  He would have had to do full collective down plus cyclic
pushed forward and to the left.  To me that sounds like a
medical incident.  
  

   
  
From: Cameron
Crum 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
  

 
  
  
A good friend of mine flew helos in the Army
  and is rated on everything from Apaches to Chinooks, and
  is now a helo pilot instructor. After looking at the FAA
  video and the stuff they have released, he said it was
  simply controlled flight into terrain. Basically, the guy
  didn't know where he was and flew that thing right into
  that hillside. He probably saw the ground at the last
  second and pulled up, but by then it was too late. 
 

  On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at
8:25 AM Chuck McCown 
wrote:
  
  

  Mechanical or medical problem.

Sent from my iPhone

  On Feb 24, 2020, at 9:10
PM, Robert 
wrote:

  


   This a/c had radar
  altimeter...  youtube blancoliro channel for
  more.

On 2/24/20 11:17 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:


  
You'd never catch me flying in a
  chopper IFR unelss I had some sort of
  terrain following radar or radar
  altimeter.  Too many wind towers, 
  powerlines,  and those pesky telecom
  towers .. 
 
I've flown with real chopper pilots and
  they always always are concerned with
  towers even though they need to stay above
  500ft.  
 
Imagine fumbling around in this while
  you can't see a thing outside.  
 

 
-- 
  Steven Kenney
  Network Operations Manager
  WaveDirect Telecommunications
  http://www.wavedirect.net
  (519)737-WAVE (9283)
 

From: "Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com
  To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020
  2:04:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and
  helicopters

 

  The Sikorsky S-76B is a big bird. Not
cheap. Maybe 10 to 13 million depending
on condition.
  I suspect this has some parallels to
the thing with Bill Graham 20 years ago
or something. I think Graham pressured
the pilot to fly even though the
conditions were not very good (awful at
that time). They hit power lines in low
visibility. 
  
  Helicopter pilots can sometimes cut
corners.
  
  bp



  On 2/24/2020 10:47 AM, Steven Kenney
wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

Yes, they have radar info showing almost the entire last 5 minutes of the 
flight.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 10:00 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

Where are you getting the information on the flight profile?

bp

On 2/25/2020 8:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  5000 fpm descent for 15 seconds is not controlled flight.  I don’t think you 
can get 5000 fpm even with full collective down and autorotation.
  He would have had to do full collective down plus cyclic pushed forward and 
to the left.  To me that sounds like a medical incident.  

  From: Cameron Crum 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:11 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

  A good friend of mine flew helos in the Army and is rated on everything from 
Apaches to Chinooks, and is now a helo pilot instructor. After looking at the 
FAA video and the stuff they have released, he said it was simply controlled 
flight into terrain. Basically, the guy didn't know where he was and flew that 
thing right into that hillside. He probably saw the ground at the last second 
and pulled up, but by then it was too late. 

  On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 8:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

Mechanical or medical problem.

Sent from my iPhone

  On Feb 24, 2020, at 9:10 PM, Robert  wrote:

   This a/c had radar altimeter...  youtube blancoliro channel for more.

  On 2/24/20 11:17 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

You'd never catch me flying in a chopper IFR unelss I had some sort of 
terrain following radar or radar altimeter.  Too many wind towers,  powerlines, 
 and those pesky telecom towers .. 

I've flown with real chopper pilots and they always always are 
concerned with towers even though they need to stay above 500ft.  

Imagine fumbling around in this while you can't see a thing outside.  

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

From: "Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com
To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 2:04:32 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

The Sikorsky S-76B is a big bird. Not cheap. Maybe 10 to 13 million 
depending on condition.

I suspect this has some parallels to the thing with Bill Graham 20 
years ago or something. I think Graham pressured the pilot to fly even though 
the conditions were not very good (awful at that time). They hit power lines in 
low visibility. 

Helicopter pilots can sometimes cut corners.

bp

On 2/24/2020 10:47 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

  Doubt it.  It was poor decision after poor decision.  Should never 
have flown.  Mist rolling in from the hills could obscure things below 1 mile 
easily.  Choppers and mountains don't mix with all the updrafts and 
unpredictable wind patterns.  ESPECIALLY downdrafts.  (I like to fly the Huey 
in DCS and its a pain to land with a slight downdraft) 

  Most choppers don't have much to navigate IFR other than an NDB if 
they are lucky they have a VOR which would require IFR and some preplanning.  
Especially in mountains.   I'd assume since he was rich as hell that they'd 
have a GPS capable nav air like a GNS 530 (pretty cheap) so it would have some 
nav aids but not necessarily terrain loaded.  

  It was just dumb to press your luck in an aircraft not designed for 
IFR "on the fly" 

  -- 
  Steven Kenney
  Network Operations Manager
  WaveDirect Telecommunications
  http://www.wavedirect.net
  (519)737-WAVE (9283)

--

  From: "chuck" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
  To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 1:03:43 PM
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

  OK, so I am bored.  Hit delete.

  The pilot of the helicopter is getting trashed because he asked for 
SVFR (special VFR) and got denied on a prior flight.  He proceeded anyway.
  On the crash flight he asked for VFR flight following.  They denied 
it due to his altitude.  I have had that happen to me dozens of times.  It does 
not indicate anything other than radar can only see so low.  

  91.155  
  A helicopter may be operated clear of clouds if operated at a speed 
that allows the pilot adequate opportunity to see any air traffic or 
obstruction in time to avoid a collision. 

  91.157 
  This part allows helicopters to fly SVFR even when flight visibility 
is below 1 statute mile when required for other aircraft.  
  This part also allows helicopters to operate SVFR at night while 
other aircra

Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

2020-02-25 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
Is this public information?

bp



On 2/25/2020 9:02 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  Yes, they have radar info showing almost the entire last
5 minutes of the flight.  
  

   
  
From: Bill
Prince 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 10:00 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
  

 
  
  
Where are you getting the information on the flight
  profile?
 
bp



On 2/25/2020 8:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  

  5000 fpm descent for 15 seconds is not controlled
flight.  I don’t think you can get 5000 fpm even
with full collective down and autorotation.
  He would have had to do full collective down plus
cyclic pushed forward and to the left.  To me that
sounds like a medical incident.  
  

   
  
From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020
  9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave
Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and
  helicopters
  

 
  
  
A good friend of mine flew helos in
  the Army and is rated on everything from Apaches
  to Chinooks, and is now a helo pilot instructor.
  After looking at the FAA video and the stuff they
  have released, he said it was simply controlled
  flight into terrain. Basically, the guy didn't
  know where he was and flew that thing right into
  that hillside. He probably saw the ground at the
  last second and pulled up, but by then it was too
  late. 
 

  On Tue, Feb 25,
2020 at 8:25 AM Chuck McCown 
wrote:
  
  

  Mechanical or medical problem.

Sent from my iPhone

  On Feb 24, 2020,
at 9:10 PM, Robert 
wrote:

  


   This a/c had radar
  altimeter...  youtube blancoliro
  channel for more.

On 2/24/20 11:17 AM, Steven Kenney
  wrote:


  
You'd never catch me flying in
  a chopper IFR unelss I had some
  sort of terrain following radar or
  radar altimeter.  Too many wind
  towers,  powerlines,  and those
  pesky telecom towers .. 
 
I've flown with real chopper
  pilots and they always always are
  concerned with towers even though
  they need to stay above 500ft.  
 
Imagine fumbling around in this
  while you can't see a thing
  outside.  
 

 
-- 
  Steven Kenney
  Network Operations Manager
  WaveDirect Telecommunications
  http://www.wavedirect.net
  (519)737-WAVE (9283)

Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

It was part of a news piece I read.  They had a very nice graphic.  Not sure 
where I saw it.  Could have been fake news I suppose.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 10:04 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

Is this public information?

bp

On 2/25/2020 9:02 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Yes, they have radar info showing almost the entire last 5 minutes of the 
flight.  

  From: Bill Prince 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 10:00 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

  Where are you getting the information on the flight profile?

bp

On 2/25/2020 8:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

5000 fpm descent for 15 seconds is not controlled flight.  I don’t think 
you can get 5000 fpm even with full collective down and autorotation.
He would have had to do full collective down plus cyclic pushed forward and 
to the left.  To me that sounds like a medical incident.  

From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

A good friend of mine flew helos in the Army and is rated on everything 
from Apaches to Chinooks, and is now a helo pilot instructor. After looking at 
the FAA video and the stuff they have released, he said it was simply 
controlled flight into terrain. Basically, the guy didn't know where he was and 
flew that thing right into that hillside. He probably saw the ground at the 
last second and pulled up, but by then it was too late. 

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 8:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Mechanical or medical problem.

  Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 24, 2020, at 9:10 PM, Robert  wrote:

 This a/c had radar altimeter...  youtube blancoliro channel for more.

On 2/24/20 11:17 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

  You'd never catch me flying in a chopper IFR unelss I had some sort 
of terrain following radar or radar altimeter.  Too many wind towers,  
powerlines,  and those pesky telecom towers .. 

  I've flown with real chopper pilots and they always always are 
concerned with towers even though they need to stay above 500ft.  

  Imagine fumbling around in this while you can't see a thing outside.  

  -- 
  Steven Kenney
  Network Operations Manager
  WaveDirect Telecommunications
  http://www.wavedirect.net
  (519)737-WAVE (9283)

--

  From: "Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com
  To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 2:04:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

  The Sikorsky S-76B is a big bird. Not cheap. Maybe 10 to 13 million 
depending on condition.

  I suspect this has some parallels to the thing with Bill Graham 20 
years ago or something. I think Graham pressured the pilot to fly even though 
the conditions were not very good (awful at that time). They hit power lines in 
low visibility. 

  Helicopter pilots can sometimes cut corners.

bp

On 2/24/2020 10:47 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

Doubt it.  It was poor decision after poor decision.  Should never 
have flown.  Mist rolling in from the hills could obscure things below 1 mile 
easily.  Choppers and mountains don't mix with all the updrafts and 
unpredictable wind patterns.  ESPECIALLY downdrafts.  (I like to fly the Huey 
in DCS and its a pain to land with a slight downdraft) 

Most choppers don't have much to navigate IFR other than an NDB if 
they are lucky they have a VOR which would require IFR and some preplanning.  
Especially in mountains.   I'd assume since he was rich as hell that they'd 
have a GPS capable nav air like a GNS 530 (pretty cheap) so it would have some 
nav aids but not necessarily terrain loaded.  

It was just dumb to press your luck in an aircraft not designed for 
IFR "on the fly" 

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

From: "chuck" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 1:03:43 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

OK, so I am bored.  Hit delete.

The pilot of the helicopter is getting trashed because he asked for 
SVFR (special VFR) and got denied on a prior flight.  He proceeded anyway.
On the crash flight he asked for VFR flight following.  They denied 
it due to his altitude.  I have had that happen to me dozens of times.  It does 
not indicate anything other than radar can only see so low.  

91

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

Sorry, the cruise ship resulted in them changing it to aerosolized in 
propagation...


On 2/25/20 8:02 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


Recirculating air would not be a vector, as it's been established this 
virus is not airborne, except by physical droplets. It's all about 
what/who you touch or get over-spray from nearby coughs and sneezes.



bp


On 2/24/2020 7:57 PM, Robert wrote:

Very similar to an Commercial airliner with 80 percent recirculation...

On 2/24/20 8:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


A cruise ship is like a 5,000 seat petri dish.

bp


On 2/23/2020 11:05 AM, Robert wrote:
Hmmm, I don't think they used trench/squat toilets on the cruise 
ship, I'm pretty sure they don't use them in S. Korea and a severe 
case percentage of 20% and confirmed death rate _by WHO_ of 2% vs 
.1 percent for flu is apples and oranges.   But you keep telling 
yourself what makes you feel safe.   Keep drinking the koolaid 
while the long storage food supplies are bought up.    ( check on 
Amazon what's still available vs. sold out ).   Let's see what the 
numbers are in S. Korea NEXT Sunday. and see what modern medicine 
can do.


On 2/23/20 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


[TINHATOFF]

It still after several weeks looks way overblown. It's beginning 
to look like the trench/squat toilets common in China (and not 
most other places) is the major disease vector.


Total cases in the US is only 35 individuals, and ZERO deaths.

Contrast this to the latest US-only flu data 
, with 29 million 
infections and 16,000 deaths. I think we are paying attention to 
the wrong things  (so what's new about that?).


[/TINHATOFF]

bp


On 2/23/2020 9:40 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Experts are starting to say it’s time to prepare for a pandemic, 
and that containment didn’t fail, containment was hopeless from 
the start.  More communicable than SARS, more deadly than 
seasonal flu.  Still remains to be seen how it plays out in 
countries with better (and worse) healthcare systems than China, 
but it’s gonna spread worldwide.  Masks, thermometers and 
quarantine don’t seem to be magic bullets.  Buy lots of hand 
soap, and stay off cruise ships.


https://www.vox.com/2020/2/23/21149327/coronavirus-pandemic-meaning-italy

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Colin Stanners
*Sent:* Sunday, February 23, 2020 12:58 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

 It seems that America's enemies know that the best 
way to have America's economy crumble is to let the Trump rallies 
go on fully unimpeded. 


A kill rate of 2% seems small as statistic, but that's still a 
few thousand currently dead, including many medical staff, who 
are being mourned by their friends and families. It's likely that 
the number of people killed by coronavirus will surpass that of 
the 9/11 attacks shortly.


Most frightening is that with its virulence, if uncontrolled it 
could infect or have infected millions or much more, then 
suddenly that 2% dead becomes unimaginable.


On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 11:55 PM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:


You dont think releasing something as hyped up as kungflu at
a major public gathering, especially a trump rally wouldnt be
a major terror success? CNN and MSNBC would be advertising
for the terrorists 24/7. By the time they were done with it,
it could have killed zero people, and everyone would still be
hid out in their house listening to their propaganda. Our
economy would crumble

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 9:14 PM Bill Prince
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Not for me. So far it has mostly been meh.

bp



On 2/22/2020 6:48 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

As a terror weapon it would be perfect

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 8:11 PM Bill Prince
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Kill rate is far too low to be considered a
bio-weapon. Kill rate needs to be over 30%.

bp



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Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters


youtube blancoliro channel has extensive technical coverage


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6SYmp3qb3uPGuyuppTJCAKYhskLrixpn



On 2/25/20 9:05 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
It was part of a news piece I read.  They had a very nice graphic.  
Not sure where I saw it.  Could have been fake news I suppose.

*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 25, 2020 10:04 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

Is this public information?

bp


On 2/25/2020 9:02 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Yes, they have radar info showing almost the entire last 5 minutes of 
the flight.

*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 25, 2020 10:00 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

Where are you getting the information on the flight profile?

bp


On 2/25/2020 8:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
5000 fpm descent for 15 seconds is not controlled flight.  I don’t 
think you can get 5000 fpm even with full collective down and 
autorotation.
He would have had to do full collective down plus cyclic pushed 
forward and to the left.  To me that sounds like a medical incident.

*From:* Cameron Crum
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:11 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
A good friend of mine flew helos in the Army and is rated on 
everything from Apaches to Chinooks, and is now a helo pilot 
instructor. After looking at the FAA video and the stuff they have 
released, he said it was simply controlled flight into terrain. 
Basically, the guy didn't know where he was and flew that thing 
right into that hillside. He probably saw the ground at the last 
second and pulled up, but by then it was too late.

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 8:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:


Mechanical or medical problem.

Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 24, 2020, at 9:10 PM, Robert  wrote:

 This a/c had radar altimeter...  youtube blancoliro channel
for more.

On 2/24/20 11:17 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

You'd never catch me flying in a chopper IFR unelss I had some
sort of terrain following radar or radar altimeter.  Too many
wind towers,  powerlines, and those pesky telecom towers ..
I've flown with real chopper pilots and they always always are
concerned with towers even though they need to stay above 500ft.
Imagine fumbling around in this while you can't see a thing
outside.
N5NJ | Sikorsky S-76B | Untitled | Cam | JetPhotos
-- 
Steven Kenney

Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

*From: *"Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com
*To: *"af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Sent: *Monday, February 24, 2020 2:04:32 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

The Sikorsky S-76B is a big bird. Not cheap. Maybe 10 to 13
million depending on condition.

I suspect this has some parallels to the thing with Bill
Graham 20 years ago or something. I think Graham pressured the
pilot to fly even though the conditions were not very good
(awful at that time). They hit power lines in low visibility.

Helicopter pilots can sometimes cut corners.

bp


On 2/24/2020 10:47 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

Doubt it.  It was poor decision after poor decision.
Should never have flown.  Mist rolling in from the hills
could obscure things below 1 mile easily.  Choppers and
mountains don't mix with all the updrafts and
unpredictable wind patterns. ESPECIALLY downdrafts.  (I
like to fly the Huey in DCS and its a pain to land with a
slight downdraft)
Most choppers don't have much to navigate IFR other than
an NDB if they are lucky they have a VOR which would
require IFR and some preplanning. Especially in
mountains.   I'd assume since he was rich as hell that
they'd have a GPS capable nav air like a GNS 530 (pretty
cheap) so it would have some nav aids but not necessarily
terrain loaded.
It was just dumb to press your luck in an aircraft not
designed for IFR "on the fly"
-- 
Steven Kenney

Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

*From: *"chuck" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
*To: *"af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Sent: *Monday, February 24, 2020 1:03:43 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
OK, so I am bored.  Hit delete.
The pilot of the helicopter is getting trashed because he
asked for SVFR (special VFR) and got denied on a prior
flight.  He proceeded anyway.
On the crash flight he asked for VFR flight following.

[AFMUG] 3.65 NN License Expiry

2020-02-25 Thread Chris Fabien

We have a little bit of old WiMax gear, PMP320 and Telrad. At some point my
understanding was we could operate this until the expiry of our 10 year
license. Has that changed now? We are not planning to deploy anything under
CBRS just will let these few customers stay on until we have to shut it
down.
Thanks
Chris
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

2020-02-25 Thread Cameron Crum

Video pretty much says what my friend did...realized he was too low, too
late, and hit the throttle to try to climb out. Ended up flying right into
the hillside.

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 11:21 AM Robert  wrote:

> youtube blancoliro channel has extensive technical coverage
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6SYmp3qb3uPGuyuppTJCAKYhskLrixpn
>
>
>
> On 2/25/20 9:05 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> It was part of a news piece I read.  They had a very nice graphic.  Not
> sure where I saw it.  Could have been fake news I suppose.
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 25, 2020 10:04 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
>
>
> Is this public information?
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 2/25/2020 9:02 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Yes, they have radar info showing almost the entire last 5 minutes of the
> flight.
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 25, 2020 10:00 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
>
>
> Where are you getting the information on the flight profile?
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 2/25/2020 8:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> 5000 fpm descent for 15 seconds is not controlled flight.  I don’t think
> you can get 5000 fpm even with full collective down and autorotation.
> He would have had to do full collective down plus cyclic pushed forward
> and to the left.  To me that sounds like a medical incident.
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:11 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
>
> A good friend of mine flew helos in the Army and is rated on everything
> from Apaches to Chinooks, and is now a helo pilot instructor. After looking
> at the FAA video and the stuff they have released, he said it was simply
> controlled flight into terrain. Basically, the guy didn't know where he was
> and flew that thing right into that hillside. He probably saw the ground at
> the last second and pulled up, but by then it was too late.
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 8:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> 
>> Mechanical or medical problem.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 24, 2020, at 9:10 PM, Robert  wrote:
>>
>>  This a/c had radar altimeter...  youtube blancoliro channel for more.
>>
>> On 2/24/20 11:17 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>>
>> You'd never catch me flying in a chopper IFR unelss I had some sort of
>> terrain following radar or radar altimeter.  Too many wind towers,
>> powerlines,  and those pesky telecom towers ..
>>
>> I've flown with real chopper pilots and they always always are concerned
>> with towers even though they need to stay above 500ft.
>>
>> Imagine fumbling around in this while you can't see a thing outside.
>>
>> [image: N5NJ | Sikorsky S-76B | Untitled | Cam | JetPhotos]
>>
>> --
>> Steven Kenney
>> Network Operations Manager
>> WaveDirect Telecommunications
>> http://www.wavedirect.net
>> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>>
>> --
>> *From: *"Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com
>> *To: *"af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Monday, February 24, 2020 2:04:32 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
>>
>>
>> The Sikorsky S-76B is a big bird. Not cheap. Maybe 10 to 13 million
>> depending on condition.
>>
>> I suspect this has some parallels to the thing with Bill Graham 20 years
>> ago or something. I think Graham pressured the pilot to fly even though the
>> conditions were not very good (awful at that time). They hit power lines in
>> low visibility.
>>
>> Helicopter pilots can sometimes cut corners.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 2/24/2020 10:47 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>>
>> Doubt it.  It was poor decision after poor decision.  Should never have
>> flown.  Mist rolling in from the hills could obscure things below 1 mile
>> easily.  Choppers and mountains don't mix with all the updrafts and
>> unpredictable wind patterns.  ESPECIALLY downdrafts.  (I like to fly the
>> Huey in DCS and its a pain to land with a slight downdraft)
>>
>> Most choppers don't have much to navigate IFR other than an NDB if they
>> are lucky they have a VOR which would require IFR and some preplanning.
>> Especially in mountains.   I'd assume since he was rich as hell that they'd
>> have a GPS capable nav air like a GNS 530 (pretty cheap) so it would have
>> some nav aids but not necessarily terrain loaded.
>>
>> It was just dumb to press your luck in an aircraft not designed for IFR
>> "on the fly"
>>
>> --
>> Steven Kenney
>> Network Operations Manager
>> WaveDirect Telecommunications
>> http://www.wavedirect.net
>> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>>
>> --
>> *From: *"chuck" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *To: *"af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Monday, February 24, 2020 1:03:43 PM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
>>
>> OK, so I am bored.  Hit delete.
>>
>> The pilot of the helicopter is getting trashed because he asked for SVFR
>> (special VFR) and got denied on a prior flight.  He

Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

I found the video to unaware of the ADSB data that shows the 30 second 
screaming descent.  The altitude and VSI data shows he did not hit the throttle 
at all.  

From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 10:58 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

Video pretty much says what my friend did...realized he was too low, too late, 
and hit the throttle to try to climb out. Ended up flying right into the 
hillside. 

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 11:21 AM Robert  wrote:

  youtube blancoliro channel has extensive technical coverage

  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6SYmp3qb3uPGuyuppTJCAKYhskLrixpn

  On 2/25/20 9:05 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

It was part of a news piece I read.  They had a very nice graphic.  Not 
sure where I saw it.  Could have been fake news I suppose.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 10:04 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

Is this public information?

bp

On 2/25/2020 9:02 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Yes, they have radar info showing almost the entire last 5 minutes of the 
flight.  

  From: Bill Prince 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 10:00 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

  Where are you getting the information on the flight profile?

bp

On 2/25/2020 8:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

5000 fpm descent for 15 seconds is not controlled flight.  I don’t 
think you can get 5000 fpm even with full collective down and autorotation.
He would have had to do full collective down plus cyclic pushed forward 
and to the left.  To me that sounds like a medical incident.  

From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

A good friend of mine flew helos in the Army and is rated on everything 
from Apaches to Chinooks, and is now a helo pilot instructor. After looking at 
the FAA video and the stuff they have released, he said it was simply 
controlled flight into terrain. Basically, the guy didn't know where he was and 
flew that thing right into that hillside. He probably saw the ground at the 
last second and pulled up, but by then it was too late. 

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 8:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Mechanical or medical problem.

  Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 24, 2020, at 9:10 PM, Robert  wrote:

 This a/c had radar altimeter...  youtube blancoliro channel for 
more.

On 2/24/20 11:17 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

  You'd never catch me flying in a chopper IFR unelss I had some 
sort of terrain following radar or radar altimeter.  Too many wind towers,  
powerlines,  and those pesky telecom towers .. 

  I've flown with real chopper pilots and they always always are 
concerned with towers even though they need to stay above 500ft.  

  Imagine fumbling around in this while you can't see a thing 
outside.  

  -- 
  Steven Kenney
  Network Operations Manager
  WaveDirect Telecommunications
  http://www.wavedirect.net
  (519)737-WAVE (9283)

--

  From: "Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com
  To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 2:04:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters

  The Sikorsky S-76B is a big bird. Not cheap. Maybe 10 to 13 
million depending on condition.

  I suspect this has some parallels to the thing with Bill Graham 
20 years ago or something. I think Graham pressured the pilot to fly even 
though the conditions were not very good (awful at that time). They hit power 
lines in low visibility. 

  Helicopter pilots can sometimes cut corners.

bp

On 2/24/2020 10:47 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

Doubt it.  It was poor decision after poor decision.  Should 
never have flown.  Mist rolling in from the hills could obscure things below 1 
mile easily.  Choppers and mountains don't mix with all the updrafts and 
unpredictable wind patterns.  ESPECIALLY downdrafts.  (I like to fly the Huey 
in DCS and its a pain to land with a slight downdraft) 

Most choppers don't have much to navigate IFR other than an NDB 
if they are lucky they have a VOR which would require IFR and some preplanning. 
 Especially in mountains.   I'd assume since he was rich as hell that they'd 
have a GPS capable nav air like a GNS 530 (pretty cheap) so it would have some 
nav aids but not necessarily terrain loaded.  

It was just dumb to press your luck in an aircraft not designed 
for IFR "on the fly" 

-

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN License Expiry

2020-02-25 Thread Adam Moffett


That is my understanding as well.


On 2/25/2020 12:50 PM, Chris Fabien wrote:
We have a little bit of old WiMax gear, PMP320 and Telrad. At some 
point my understanding was we could operate this until the expiry of 
our 10 year license. Has that changed now? We are not planning to 
deploy anything under CBRS just will let these few customers stay on 
until we have to shut it down.

Thanks
Chris


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Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN License Expiry

2020-02-25 Thread Eric Nielsen

Did you register for grandfathered status before the deadline?

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 12:51 PM Chris Fabien  wrote:

> We have a little bit of old WiMax gear, PMP320 and Telrad. At some point
> my understanding was we could operate this until the expiry of our 10 year
> license. Has that changed now? We are not planning to deploy anything under
> CBRS just will let these few customers stay on until we have to shut it
> down.
> Thanks
> Chris
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
Eric Nielsen
571-508-7409
ericlniel...@gmail.com
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Re: [AFMUG] tower owner says underbilled 5 years

2020-02-25 Thread can...@believewireless.net

In Maryland, they can only go back 3 years. I'd call and negotiate paying
only the last 3 years.

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 2:04 PM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
wrote:

> Happened to me too.  But my payment was right.  Their books were wrong.
>
>
>
> Jim Bouse
> Owner - Brazos WiFi
> 979-985-5912
> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 11:57 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] tower owner says underbilled 5 years
>
>
>
> How did you know?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jim Bouse [Brazos
> WiFi]
> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 11:33 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] tower owner says underbilled 5 years
>
>
>
> Sounds like Vertical Bridge.
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S8 Active, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable
> smartphone
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Original message 
>
> From: Ken Hohhof 
>
> Date: 2/24/20 11:31 AM (GMT-06:00)
>
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>
> Subject: [AFMUG] tower owner says underbilled 5 years
>
>
>
> We just had a tower owner send additional invoices for the past 5 years
> saying an audit when we renewed showed they had underbilled us every
> month.  The amounts are around $50 per month.
>
>
>
> Obviously I need to look at contracts and escalation provisions and try to
> determine if they really did underbill us.
>
>
>
> Even if they did, is this reasonable?  Should I challenge how far back
> they can bill for their mistake?  60 months of additional rent is a
> significant amount of money.  We also renewed the lease on the assurance
> that terms and prices were staying the same.  If it turns out the lease
> supports their numbers, it still seems like there should be a statute of
> limitations for back billing.  I know we would only bill a customer more
> for our mistake going forward, not retroactively.  Certainly not
> retroactive 5 years.
>
>
>
> Anybody had a similar experience, and what did you do?
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

2020-02-25 Thread Colin Stanners

If the coronavirus somehow becomes able to spread via the internet,
humanity is done for.

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 11:19 AM Robert  wrote:

> Sorry, the cruise ship resulted in them changing it to aerosolized in
> propagation...
>
> On 2/25/20 8:02 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> Recirculating air would not be a vector, as it's been established this
> virus is not airborne, except by physical droplets. It's all about what/who
> you touch or get over-spray from nearby coughs and sneezes.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 2/24/2020 7:57 PM, Robert wrote:
>
> Very similar to an Commercial airliner with 80 percent recirculation...
>
> On 2/24/20 8:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> A cruise ship is like a 5,000 seat petri dish.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 2/23/2020 11:05 AM, Robert wrote:
>
> Hmmm, I don't think they used trench/squat toilets on the cruise ship, I'm
> pretty sure they don't use them in S. Korea and a severe case percentage of
> 20% and confirmed death rate _by WHO_ of 2% vs .1 percent for flu is apples
> and oranges.   But you keep telling yourself what makes you feel safe.
> Keep drinking the koolaid while the long storage food supplies are bought
> up.( check on Amazon what's still available vs. sold out ).   Let's see
> what the numbers are in S. Korea NEXT Sunday. and see what modern medicine
> can do.
>
> On 2/23/20 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> [TINHATOFF]
>
> It still after several weeks looks way overblown. It's beginning to look
> like the trench/squat toilets common in China (and not most other places)
> is the major disease vector.
>
> Total cases in the US is only 35 individuals, and ZERO deaths.
>
> Contrast this to the latest US-only flu data
> , with 29 million infections
> and 16,000 deaths. I think we are paying attention to the wrong things  (so
> what's new about that?).
>
> [/TINHATOFF]
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 2/23/2020 9:40 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Experts are starting to say it’s time to prepare for a pandemic, and that
> containment didn’t fail, containment was hopeless from the start.  More
> communicable than SARS, more deadly than seasonal flu.  Still remains to be
> seen how it plays out in countries with better (and worse) healthcare
> systems than China, but it’s gonna spread worldwide.  Masks, thermometers
> and quarantine don’t seem to be magic bullets.  Buy lots of hand soap, and
> stay off cruise ships.
>
>
>
> https://www.vox.com/2020/2/23/21149327/coronavirus-pandemic-meaning-italy
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Colin Stanners
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 23, 2020 12:58 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)
>
>
>
>  It seems that America's enemies know that the best way to have
> America's economy crumble is to let the Trump rallies go on fully
> unimpeded. 
>
>
>
> A kill rate of 2% seems small as statistic, but that's still a few
> thousand currently dead, including many medical staff, who are being
> mourned by their friends and families. It's likely that the number of
> people killed by coronavirus will surpass that of the 9/11 attacks shortly.
>
>
>
> Most frightening is that with its virulence, if uncontrolled it could
> infect or have infected millions or much more, then suddenly that 2% dead
> becomes unimaginable.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 11:55 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> You dont think releasing something as hyped up as kungflu at a major
> public gathering, especially a trump rally wouldnt be a major terror
> success? CNN and MSNBC would be advertising for the terrorists 24/7. By the
> time they were done with it, it could have killed zero people, and everyone
> would still be hid out in their house listening to their propaganda. Our
> economy would crumble
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 9:14 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> Not for me. So far it has mostly been meh.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 2/22/2020 6:48 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> As a terror weapon it would be perfect
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 8:11 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> Kill rate is far too low to be considered a bio-weapon. Kill rate needs to
> be over 30%.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN License Expiry

2020-02-25 Thread Chris Fabien

No...

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 1:11 PM Eric Nielsen  wrote:

> Did you register for grandfathered status before the deadline?
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 12:51 PM Chris Fabien  wrote:
>
>> We have a little bit of old WiMax gear, PMP320 and Telrad. At some point
>> my understanding was we could operate this until the expiry of our 10 year
>> license. Has that changed now? We are not planning to deploy anything under
>> CBRS just will let these few customers stay on until we have to shut it
>> down.
>> Thanks
>> Chris
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> Eric Nielsen
> 571-508-7409
> ericlniel...@gmail.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] tower owner says underbilled 5 years

2020-02-25 Thread Lewis Bergman

I have gone back 12 months before on a similar thing. In my case we had not
sent an invoice, which by our lease we are not obligated to do to collect
payment, but still they were used to receiving one. As a result, I agreed
to invoice that 12 months arrears over the next 18 months.

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 12:38 PM can...@believewireless.net <
p...@believewireless.net> wrote:

> In Maryland, they can only go back 3 years. I'd call and negotiate paying
> only the last 3 years.
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 2:04 PM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] <
> j...@brazoswifi.com> wrote:
>
>> Happened to me too.  But my payment was right.  Their books were wrong.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim Bouse
>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>> 979-985-5912
>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 11:57 AM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] tower owner says underbilled 5 years
>>
>>
>>
>> How did you know?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jim Bouse [Brazos
>> WiFi]
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 11:33 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] tower owner says underbilled 5 years
>>
>>
>>
>> Sounds like Vertical Bridge.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S8 Active, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable
>> smartphone
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Original message 
>>
>> From: Ken Hohhof 
>>
>> Date: 2/24/20 11:31 AM (GMT-06:00)
>>
>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>>
>> Subject: [AFMUG] tower owner says underbilled 5 years
>>
>>
>>
>> We just had a tower owner send additional invoices for the past 5 years
>> saying an audit when we renewed showed they had underbilled us every
>> month.  The amounts are around $50 per month.
>>
>>
>>
>> Obviously I need to look at contracts and escalation provisions and try
>> to determine if they really did underbill us.
>>
>>
>>
>> Even if they did, is this reasonable?  Should I challenge how far back
>> they can bill for their mistake?  60 months of additional rent is a
>> significant amount of money.  We also renewed the lease on the assurance
>> that terms and prices were staying the same.  If it turns out the lease
>> supports their numbers, it still seems like there should be a statute of
>> limitations for back billing.  I know we would only bill a customer more
>> for our mistake going forward, not retroactively.  Certainly not
>> retroactive 5 years.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anybody had a similar experience, and what did you do?
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN License Expiry

grandfathered status is pretty much irrelevant at this point anyway... if I
understand right, it goes away after April regardless of when your license
expires, and since CBRS is really just starting to get deployed now, it's
probably not going to make much difference to most people.

But yeah, the consensus seems to be that we can keep operating under part
90 until our licenses expire.

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 12:11 PM Eric Nielsen 
wrote:

> Did you register for grandfathered status before the deadline?
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 12:51 PM Chris Fabien  wrote:
>
>> We have a little bit of old WiMax gear, PMP320 and Telrad. At some point
>> my understanding was we could operate this until the expiry of our 10 year
>> license. Has that changed now? We are not planning to deploy anything under
>> CBRS just will let these few customers stay on until we have to shut it
>> down.
>> Thanks
>> Chris
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> Eric Nielsen
> 571-508-7409
> ericlniel...@gmail.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium LTE

2020-02-25 Thread Matt Mangriotis via AF

I completely understand your skepticism Ken. However, Cambium did design the 3 
GHz 450m with every intention of being able to support a transition to LTE 
(specifically, as a RRH with cnRanger). The intent is for this device to be a 
fully capable 8x8 MU-MIMO. Yes, you’ve got that right though, you’ll need new 
CPE devices and a BBU for each sector.

We don’t have a target date when this will be developed yet… right now, we’re 
focused on getting the cnRanger CBRS 2x2 RRH and High Gain Cat 6 CPE devices 
out in August!

With respect to NLOS coverage, I will agree that 450 is not quite on par with 
some of the things that LTE brings to the table (regarding range and the 
ability to maintain the downlink). However, with the increased power limits of 
CBRS, the 450m does an admirable job. In fact, in comparing equipment cost and 
performance, I would suggest that the 450 platform outperforms anything out 
there. That is, it’s less expensive to get bandwidth where it needs to be (at a 
higher rate, and to more customers). If the customer density can support the 
cost of cnMedusa, you’re going to be better off from total cost of ownership 
(both CapEx and OpEx) perspective.

The new 3GHz 450b High Gain has 29 dBm Tx Pwr, and a 20 dBi dish integrated 
antenna… this is pretty impressive for CBRS CPE equipment (most of the high 
gain/high power LTE stuff I see is only going to be 23 dBm Tx, plus 15 dBi 
antenna).

There are several customers out there that have done these comparisons… 
hopefully, they can chime in.

Matt

From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 7:06 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE

You should probably talk to someone at Cambium, unless someone here has already 
done that.  There was talk 1-2 years ago about 450m is software defined so 
maybe they could use it as a remote radio head with their cnRanger LTE BaseBand 
Unit (BBU).  It has been pretty quiet since then, but I haven’t been able to 
make it to the shows.

Without an update directly from the horse’s mouth like Matt at Cambium, or some 
kind of announcement, I wouldn’t hold my breath.  Back in 2018 it was in the 
realm of “it would be nice”.  That’s pretty tentative.  Plus you’d still have 
to buy the BBU and new CPE, so it doesn’t sound like a huge savings anyway, 
still 2/3 of a forklift upgrade.  I mean, if it turned out that the 3 GHz 
cnRanger RRH was literally a 450m, that would probably be the best case, but 
how likely do you think that is?

This is just my personal speculation, if it’s an important part of a decision 
you’re making now, you probably need to get hold of your Cambium regional sales 
manager, or the 450 or cnRanger product manager.  If you’re going to 
WISPAmerica, you can probably do it there.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Jason McKemie
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 6:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE

So the 450M is supposed to be LTE upgradable?

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 3:45 PM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Something aboit the medusa top can be used with cnranger potentially with a 
fiber run and a software update

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 3:38 PM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

In my opinion, 450 is better than Baicells or Telrad LTE at everything except 
NLOS performance.

Except that NLOS performance is so useful that one can be tempted to ignore 
all of the other features of the 450.  I do understand that tradeoff because 
I've had to make it myself.

On 2/24/2020 4:30 PM, David Williamson wrote:
450 3.65Ghz vs. Baicells 3.65Ghz LTE = no comparison.  All but one of the 450 
APs are already removed from our network.  I am just trying to determine if the 
SMs will be usable on Cambium LTE once they roll it out, or if it will require 
a completely different SM.

David

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 4:28 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE

Why are you getting rid of 3.65 Cambium in favor of LTE?

On Monday, February 24, 2020, David Williamson 
mailto:dwilliam...@customcomputersva.com>> 
wrote:
Will the Cambium 3.65 LTE have a completely new SM or will it use the existing 
450SM's?  Trying to determine if I should keep our 450SM's or just go ahead and 
sell them to one of our secondary market distributors along with our 450 AP's.

Thanks!

David Williamson

-Original Message-
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On 
Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 1:57 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE

I think I heard next quarter for the 3.5.

On 2/24/2020 1:48 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:
> 3.5 isn’t available yet.
>
> I believe that 2.5 can be purchased.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIcon

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

if corona virus hits the internet, it wont be able to survive the filth

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 1:18 PM Colin Stanners  wrote:

> If the coronavirus somehow becomes able to spread via the internet,
> humanity is done for.
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 11:19 AM Robert  wrote:
>
>> Sorry, the cruise ship resulted in them changing it to aerosolized in
>> propagation...
>>
>> On 2/25/20 8:02 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>> Recirculating air would not be a vector, as it's been established this
>> virus is not airborne, except by physical droplets. It's all about what/who
>> you touch or get over-spray from nearby coughs and sneezes.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 2/24/2020 7:57 PM, Robert wrote:
>>
>> Very similar to an Commercial airliner with 80 percent recirculation...
>>
>> On 2/24/20 8:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>> A cruise ship is like a 5,000 seat petri dish.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 2/23/2020 11:05 AM, Robert wrote:
>>
>> Hmmm, I don't think they used trench/squat toilets on the cruise ship,
>> I'm pretty sure they don't use them in S. Korea and a severe case
>> percentage of 20% and confirmed death rate _by WHO_ of 2% vs .1 percent for
>> flu is apples and oranges.   But you keep telling yourself what makes you
>> feel safe.   Keep drinking the koolaid while the long storage food supplies
>> are bought up.( check on Amazon what's still available vs. sold out
>> ).   Let's see what the numbers are in S. Korea NEXT Sunday. and see what
>> modern medicine can do.
>>
>> On 2/23/20 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>> [TINHATOFF]
>>
>> It still after several weeks looks way overblown. It's beginning to look
>> like the trench/squat toilets common in China (and not most other places)
>> is the major disease vector.
>>
>> Total cases in the US is only 35 individuals, and ZERO deaths.
>>
>> Contrast this to the latest US-only flu data
>> , with 29 million infections
>> and 16,000 deaths. I think we are paying attention to the wrong things  (so
>> what's new about that?).
>>
>> [/TINHATOFF]
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 2/23/2020 9:40 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> Experts are starting to say it’s time to prepare for a pandemic, and that
>> containment didn’t fail, containment was hopeless from the start.  More
>> communicable than SARS, more deadly than seasonal flu.  Still remains to be
>> seen how it plays out in countries with better (and worse) healthcare
>> systems than China, but it’s gonna spread worldwide.  Masks, thermometers
>> and quarantine don’t seem to be magic bullets.  Buy lots of hand soap, and
>> stay off cruise ships.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.vox.com/2020/2/23/21149327/coronavirus-pandemic-meaning-italy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF   *On
>> Behalf Of *Colin Stanners
>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 23, 2020 12:58 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)
>>
>>
>>
>>  It seems that America's enemies know that the best way to
>> have America's economy crumble is to let the Trump rallies go on fully
>> unimpeded. 
>>
>>
>>
>> A kill rate of 2% seems small as statistic, but that's still a few
>> thousand currently dead, including many medical staff, who are being
>> mourned by their friends and families. It's likely that the number of
>> people killed by coronavirus will surpass that of the 9/11 attacks shortly.
>>
>>
>>
>> Most frightening is that with its virulence, if uncontrolled it could
>> infect or have infected millions or much more, then suddenly that 2% dead
>> becomes unimaginable.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 11:55 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> You dont think releasing something as hyped up as kungflu at a major
>> public gathering, especially a trump rally wouldnt be a major terror
>> success? CNN and MSNBC would be advertising for the terrorists 24/7. By the
>> time they were done with it, it could have killed zero people, and everyone
>> would still be hid out in their house listening to their propaganda. Our
>> economy would crumble
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 9:14 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>> Not for me. So far it has mostly been meh.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/22/2020 6:48 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> As a terror weapon it would be perfect
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 8:11 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>> Kill rate is far too low to be considered a bio-weapon. Kill rate needs
>> to be over 30%.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF

Re: [AFMUG] tower owner says underbilled 5 years

We had a customer that didnt get billed for about a year because of a
billing server bug. Surprisingly, we gave him the option to pay, or not. he
opted to pay it over time.

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 2:03 PM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> I have gone back 12 months before on a similar thing. In my case we had
> not sent an invoice, which by our lease we are not obligated to do to
> collect payment, but still they were used to receiving one. As a result, I
> agreed to invoice that 12 months arrears over the next 18 months.
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 12:38 PM can...@believewireless.net <
> p...@believewireless.net> wrote:
>
>> In Maryland, they can only go back 3 years. I'd call and negotiate paying
>> only the last 3 years.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 2:04 PM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] <
>> j...@brazoswifi.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Happened to me too.  But my payment was right.  Their books were wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim Bouse
>>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>>> 979-985-5912
>>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Ken Hohhof
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 11:57 AM
>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] tower owner says underbilled 5 years
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How did you know?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jim Bouse [Brazos
>>> WiFi]
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 11:33 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] tower owner says underbilled 5 years
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds like Vertical Bridge.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S8 Active, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable
>>> smartphone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Original message 
>>>
>>> From: Ken Hohhof 
>>>
>>> Date: 2/24/20 11:31 AM (GMT-06:00)
>>>
>>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>>>
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] tower owner says underbilled 5 years
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We just had a tower owner send additional invoices for the past 5 years
>>> saying an audit when we renewed showed they had underbilled us every
>>> month.  The amounts are around $50 per month.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Obviously I need to look at contracts and escalation provisions and try
>>> to determine if they really did underbill us.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Even if they did, is this reasonable?  Should I challenge how far back
>>> they can bill for their mistake?  60 months of additional rent is a
>>> significant amount of money.  We also renewed the lease on the assurance
>>> that terms and prices were staying the same.  If it turns out the lease
>>> supports their numbers, it still seems like there should be a statute of
>>> limitations for back billing.  I know we would only bill a customer more
>>> for our mistake going forward, not retroactively.  Certainly not
>>> retroactive 5 years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anybody had a similar experience, and what did you do?
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Lewis Bergman
> 325-439-0533 Cell
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN License Expiry

people are confusing grandfathered with expiry. The grandfather thing was a
deal you had to do to get the grandfather CBRS status. by the time most of
us realized, the deadline had passed. the expiration is just that, when
your license expires, it does NOT give you grandfather status in regard to
CBRS. it just allows you not to cease operations in april.
Nobody has been very clear on what that means if a CBRS operator puts up
gear, I would assume it gives them the right to petition FCC to do cease
and desist on you.

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 2:05 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> grandfathered status is pretty much irrelevant at this point anyway... if
> I understand right, it goes away after April regardless of when your
> license expires, and since CBRS is really just starting to get deployed
> now, it's probably not going to make much difference to most people.
>
> But yeah, the consensus seems to be that we can keep operating under part
> 90 until our licenses expire.
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 12:11 PM Eric Nielsen 
> wrote:
>
>> Did you register for grandfathered status before the deadline?
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 12:51 PM Chris Fabien 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We have a little bit of old WiMax gear, PMP320 and Telrad. At some point
>>> my understanding was we could operate this until the expiry of our 10 year
>>> license. Has that changed now? We are not planning to deploy anything under
>>> CBRS just will let these few customers stay on until we have to shut it
>>> down.
>>> Thanks
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> Eric Nielsen
>> 571-508-7409
>> ericlniel...@gmail.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium LTE

450 tends to keep trucking with some interference, wimax and whatever ubnt
was in out case.

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 4:00 PM Matt Mangriotis via AF 
wrote:

> I completely understand your skepticism Ken. However, Cambium did design
> the 3 GHz 450m with every intention of being able to support a transition
> to LTE (specifically, as a RRH with cnRanger). The intent is for this
> device to be a fully capable 8x8 MU-MIMO. Yes, you’ve got that right
> though, you’ll need new CPE devices and a BBU for each sector.
>
>
>
> We don’t have a target date when this will be developed yet… right now,
> we’re focused on getting the cnRanger CBRS 2x2 RRH and High Gain Cat 6 CPE
> devices out in August!
>
>
>
> With respect to NLOS coverage, I will agree that 450 is not quite on par
> with some of the things that LTE brings to the table (regarding range and
> the ability to maintain the downlink). However, with the increased power
> limits of CBRS, the 450m does an admirable job. In fact, in comparing
> equipment cost and performance, I would suggest that the 450 platform
> outperforms anything out there. That is, it’s less expensive to get
> bandwidth where it needs to be (at a higher rate, and to more customers).
> If the customer density can support the cost of cnMedusa, you’re going to
> be better off from total cost of ownership (both CapEx and OpEx)
> perspective.
>
>
>
> The new 3GHz 450b High Gain has 29 dBm Tx Pwr, and a 20 dBi dish
> integrated antenna… this is pretty impressive for CBRS CPE equipment (most
> of the high gain/high power LTE stuff I see is only going to be 23 dBm Tx,
> plus 15 dBi antenna).
>
>
>
> There are several customers out there that have done these comparisons…
> hopefully, they can chime in.
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 7:06 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE
>
>
>
> You should probably talk to someone at Cambium, unless someone here has
> already done that.  There was talk 1-2 years ago about 450m is software
> defined so maybe they could use it as a remote radio head with their
> cnRanger LTE BaseBand Unit (BBU).  It has been pretty quiet since then, but
> I haven’t been able to make it to the shows.
>
>
>
> Without an update directly from the horse’s mouth like Matt at Cambium, or
> some kind of announcement, I wouldn’t hold my breath.  Back in 2018 it was
> in the realm of “it would be nice”.  That’s pretty tentative.  Plus you’d
> still have to buy the BBU and new CPE, so it doesn’t sound like a huge
> savings anyway, still 2/3 of a forklift upgrade.  I mean, if it turned out
> that the 3 GHz cnRanger RRH was literally a 450m, that would probably be
> the best case, but how likely do you think that is?
>
>
>
> This is just my personal speculation, if it’s an important part of a
> decision you’re making now, you probably need to get hold of your Cambium
> regional sales manager, or the 450 or cnRanger product manager.  If you’re
> going to WISPAmerica, you can probably do it there.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 6:03 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE
>
>
>
> So the 450M is supposed to be LTE upgradable?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 3:45 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> Something aboit the medusa top can be used with cnranger potentially with
> a fiber run and a software update
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 3:38 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> In my opinion, 450 is better than Baicells or Telrad LTE at everything
> except NLOS performance.
>
> Except that NLOS performance is so useful that one can be tempted to
> ignore all of the other features of the 450.  I do understand that tradeoff
> because I've had to make it myself.
>
>
>
> On 2/24/2020 4:30 PM, David Williamson wrote:
>
> 450 3.65Ghz vs. Baicells 3.65Ghz LTE = no comparison.  All but one of the
> 450 APs are already removed from our network.  I am just trying to
> determine if the SMs will be usable on Cambium LTE once they roll it out,
> or if it will require a completely different SM.
>
>
> David
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 4:28 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE
>
>
>
> Why are you getting rid of 3.65 Cambium in favor of LTE?
>
> On Monday, February 24, 2020, David Williamson <
> dwilliam...@customcomputersva.com> wrote:
>
> Will the Cambium 3.65 LTE have a completely new SM or will it use the
> existing 450SM's?  Trying to determine if I should keep our 450SM's or just
> go ahead and sell them to one of our secondary market distributors along
> with our 450 AP's.
>
> Thanks!
>
> David Williamson
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 1:57 PM
> To: af@af.afmug

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN License Expiry

2020-02-25 Thread Peter Kranz via AF

I submitted and was granted grandfathered status.. but that status still 
expires in April.. so, you didn’t really get anything out of the process.

 

Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 2:05 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN License Expiry

 

people are confusing grandfathered with expiry. The grandfather thing was a 
deal you had to do to get the grandfather CBRS status. by the time most of us 
realized, the deadline had passed. the expiration is just that, when your 
license expires, it does NOT give you grandfather status in regard to CBRS. it 
just allows you not to cease operations in april.

Nobody has been very clear on what that means if a CBRS operator puts up gear, 
I would assume it gives them the right to petition FCC to do cease and desist 
on you.

 

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 2:05 PM Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > wrote:

grandfathered status is pretty much irrelevant at this point anyway... if I 
understand right, it goes away after April regardless of when your license 
expires, and since CBRS is really just starting to get deployed now, it's 
probably not going to make much difference to most people.

 

But yeah, the consensus seems to be that we can keep operating under part 90 
until our licenses expire. 

 

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 12:11 PM Eric Nielsen mailto:ericlniel...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Did you register for grandfathered status before the deadline?

 

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 12:51 PM Chris Fabien mailto:ch...@lakenetmi.com> > wrote:

We have a little bit of old WiMax gear, PMP320 and Telrad. At some point my 
understanding was we could operate this until the expiry of our 10 year 
license. Has that changed now? We are not planning to deploy anything under 
CBRS just will let these few customers stay on until we have to shut it down. 

Thanks

Chris

 

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571-508-7409
ericlniel...@gmail.com  

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Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN License Expiry

Yeah, I know... people keep talking about the grandfather status like it's
a big deal, but it really isn't. If CBRS had gone online a couple of years
ago, then yeah, it probably would have been, but it's not really going to
matter at this point.

I would assume that if a CBRS operator puts up gear that you're interfering
with, it's going to be handled pretty much the same way it was under the
old rules (in other words, work it out with eachother, or shut up and live
with it)... there's a reason that they made 3650-3700 GAA only.

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 4:06 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> people are confusing grandfathered with expiry. The grandfather thing was
> a deal you had to do to get the grandfather CBRS status. by the time most
> of us realized, the deadline had passed. the expiration is just that, when
> your license expires, it does NOT give you grandfather status in regard to
> CBRS. it just allows you not to cease operations in april.
> Nobody has been very clear on what that means if a CBRS operator puts up
> gear, I would assume it gives them the right to petition FCC to do cease
> and desist on you.
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 2:05 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> grandfathered status is pretty much irrelevant at this point anyway... if
>> I understand right, it goes away after April regardless of when your
>> license expires, and since CBRS is really just starting to get deployed
>> now, it's probably not going to make much difference to most people.
>>
>> But yeah, the consensus seems to be that we can keep operating under part
>> 90 until our licenses expire.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 12:11 PM Eric Nielsen 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Did you register for grandfathered status before the deadline?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 12:51 PM Chris Fabien 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 We have a little bit of old WiMax gear, PMP320 and Telrad. At some
 point my understanding was we could operate this until the expiry of our 10
 year license. Has that changed now? We are not planning to deploy anything
 under CBRS just will let these few customers stay on until we have to shut
 it down.
 Thanks
 Chris

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 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> Eric Nielsen
>>> 571-508-7409
>>> ericlniel...@gmail.com
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>>
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[AFMUG] "Generic" 5Ghz dual-pol replacement feedhorns?

2020-02-25 Thread Colin Stanners

We have a number of 2-3ft single-pol 5ghz antennas sitting around the shop,
and in many cases prefer not to pair them up into a dual-pol peanut on the
tower.

For more robust antennas like Radiowaves/Andrews, the options to replace
the feedhorn to turn them into a dual-pol model range from $300-600 USD,
which is sometimes double the cost of a complete antenna from a more
inexpensive / basic manufacturer.

Given that feedhorns have a similar design and purpose, just differences in
mounting, I was wondering if anyone (...Chuck?) has ever heard of generic
feedhorns that would allow re-using these dishes at a more reasonable cost.


Commscope Andrew "grey bulb" 2ft (P2F-52-NXA or similar): DP feedhorn
115710-1 is ~$400 USD

Maxrad 3ft (MPR58033 or similar): no dual-pol feedhorns available

Radiowaves 2ft (SP2-5.2NS or similar): DP feedhorn 101876-2 is $330-500 USD

Radiowaves 3ft (SP3-5.2NS or similar) DP feedhorn 104918-3 is ~$600 USD
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Re: [AFMUG] "Generic" 5Ghz dual-pol replacement feedhorns?

I have considered sticking epmp force radios inside our radiowaves just to
see what happens

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 4:22 PM Colin Stanners  wrote:

> We have a number of 2-3ft single-pol 5ghz antennas sitting around the
> shop, and in many cases prefer not to pair them up into a dual-pol peanut
> on the tower.
>
> For more robust antennas like Radiowaves/Andrews, the options to replace
> the feedhorn to turn them into a dual-pol model range from $300-600 USD,
> which is sometimes double the cost of a complete antenna from a more
> inexpensive / basic manufacturer.
>
> Given that feedhorns have a similar design and purpose, just differences
> in mounting, I was wondering if anyone (...Chuck?) has ever heard of
> generic feedhorns that would allow re-using these dishes at a more
> reasonable cost.
>
>
> Commscope Andrew "grey bulb" 2ft (P2F-52-NXA or similar): DP feedhorn
> 115710-1 is ~$400 USD
>
> Maxrad 3ft (MPR58033 or similar): no dual-pol feedhorns available
>
> Radiowaves 2ft (SP2-5.2NS or similar): DP feedhorn 101876-2 is $330-500 USD
>
> Radiowaves 3ft (SP3-5.2NS or similar) DP feedhorn 104918-3 is ~$600 USD
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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium LTE

2020-02-25 Thread Ken Hohhof

When we dipped our toe in the WiMAX pool (Purewave, not Cambium) one of the 
things I didn’t like was everyone wanted to sell basestations and rely on the 
WiMAX “ecosystem” to supply CPEs.  And those CPEs (like Greenpacket) were wimpy 
little things with low xmt power, small low gain antennas, and limited feature 
set.  I forget who the OEM was for Mercury’s CPEs, they were cute and a little 
better on the feature set, but still not much power or antenna gain.

 

So it is good to see Cambium developing their own CPE, both 3 GHz 450, and 
cnRanger.  And not making them wimpy little things.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Mangriotis via AF
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 3:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Matt Mangriotis 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium LTE

 

I completely understand your skepticism Ken. However, Cambium did design the 3 
GHz 450m with every intention of being able to support a transition to LTE 
(specifically, as a RRH with cnRanger). The intent is for this device to be a 
fully capable 8x8 MU-MIMO. Yes, you’ve got that right though, you’ll need new 
CPE devices and a BBU for each sector.

 

We don’t have a target date when this will be developed yet… right now, we’re 
focused on getting the cnRanger CBRS 2x2 RRH and High Gain Cat 6 CPE devices 
out in August!

 

With respect to NLOS coverage, I will agree that 450 is not quite on par with 
some of the things that LTE brings to the table (regarding range and the 
ability to maintain the downlink). However, with the increased power limits of 
CBRS, the 450m does an admirable job. In fact, in comparing equipment cost and 
performance, I would suggest that the 450 platform outperforms anything out 
there. That is, it’s less expensive to get bandwidth where it needs to be (at a 
higher rate, and to more customers). If the customer density can support the 
cost of cnMedusa, you’re going to be better off from total cost of ownership 
(both CapEx and OpEx) perspective.

 

The new 3GHz 450b High Gain has 29 dBm Tx Pwr, and a 20 dBi dish integrated 
antenna… this is pretty impressive for CBRS CPE equipment (most of the high 
gain/high power LTE stuff I see is only going to be 23 dBm Tx, plus 15 dBi 
antenna).

 

There are several customers out there that have done these comparisons… 
hopefully, they can chime in.

 

Matt

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 7:06 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE

 

You should probably talk to someone at Cambium, unless someone here has already 
done that.  There was talk 1-2 years ago about 450m is software defined so 
maybe they could use it as a remote radio head with their cnRanger LTE BaseBand 
Unit (BBU).  It has been pretty quiet since then, but I haven’t been able to 
make it to the shows.

 

Without an update directly from the horse’s mouth like Matt at Cambium, or some 
kind of announcement, I wouldn’t hold my breath.  Back in 2018 it was in the 
realm of “it would be nice”.  That’s pretty tentative.  Plus you’d still have 
to buy the BBU and new CPE, so it doesn’t sound like a huge savings anyway, 
still 2/3 of a forklift upgrade.  I mean, if it turned out that the 3 GHz 
cnRanger RRH was literally a 450m, that would probably be the best case, but 
how likely do you think that is?

 

This is just my personal speculation, if it’s an important part of a decision 
you’re making now, you probably need to get hold of your Cambium regional sales 
manager, or the 450 or cnRanger product manager.  If you’re going to 
WISPAmerica, you can probably do it there.

  

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 6:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE

 

So the 450M is supposed to be LTE upgradable?

 

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 3:45 PM Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Something aboit the medusa top can be used with cnranger potentially with a 
fiber run and a software update

 

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 3:38 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

In my opinion, 450 is better than Baicells or Telrad LTE at everything except 
NLOS performance.  

Except that NLOS performance is so useful that one can be tempted to ignore 
all of the other features of the 450.  I do understand that tradeoff because 
I've had to make it myself.

 

On 2/24/2020 4:30 PM, David Williamson wrote:

450 3.65Ghz vs. Baicells 3.65Ghz LTE = no comparison.  All but one of the 450 
APs are already removed from our network.  I am just trying to determine if the 
SMs will be usable on Cambium LTE once they roll it out, or if it will require 
a completely different SM.


David

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 4:28 PM
To: AnimalFarm

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

2020-02-25 Thread Matt Hoppes

Make sure you change your RF Filters. 

> On Feb 25, 2020, at 5:00 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> if corona virus hits the internet, it wont be able to survive the filth
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 1:18 PM Colin Stanners  wrote:
>> If the coronavirus somehow becomes able to spread via the internet, humanity 
>> is done for.
>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 11:19 AM Robert  wrote:
>>> Sorry, the cruise ship resulted in them changing it to aerosolized in 
>>> propagation...
>>> 
 On 2/25/20 8:02 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
 Recirculating air would not be a vector, as it's been established this 
 virus is not airborne, except by physical droplets. It's all about 
 what/who you touch or get over-spray from nearby coughs and sneezes.
 
 
 
 bp
 
 
> On 2/24/2020 7:57 PM, Robert wrote:
> Very similar to an Commercial airliner with 80 percent recirculation...
> 
>> On 2/24/20 8:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> A cruise ship is like a 5,000 seat petri dish.
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2/23/2020 11:05 AM, Robert wrote:
>>> Hmmm, I don't think they used trench/squat toilets on the cruise ship, 
>>> I'm pretty sure they don't use them in S. Korea and a severe case 
>>> percentage of 20% and confirmed death rate _by WHO_ of 2% vs .1 percent 
>>> for flu is apples and oranges.   But you keep telling yourself what 
>>> makes you feel safe.   Keep drinking the koolaid while the long storage 
>>> food supplies are bought up.( check on Amazon   what's 
>>> still available vs. sold out ).   Let's see what the numbers are in S. 
>>> Korea NEXT Sunday. and see what modern medicine can do.   
>>> 
 On 2/23/20 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
 [TINHATOFF]
 
 It still after several weeks looks way overblown. It's beginning to 
 look like the trench/squat toilets common in China (and not most other 
 places) is the major disease vector.
 
 Total cases in the US is only 35 individuals, and ZERO deaths.
 
 Contrast this to the latest US-only flu data, with 29 million 
 infections and 16,000 deaths. I think we are paying attention to the 
 wrong things  (so what's new about that?).
 
 [/TINHATOFF]
 
 bp
 
 
> On 2/23/2020 9:40 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> Experts are starting to say it’s time to prepare for a pandemic, and 
> that containment didn’t fail, containment was hopeless from the 
> start.  More communicable than SARS, more deadly than seasonal flu.  
> Still remains to be seen how it plays out in countries with better 
> (and worse) healthcare systems than China, but it’s gonna spread 
> worldwide.  Masks, thermometers and quarantine don’t seem to be magic 
> bullets.  Buy lots of hand soap, and stay off cruise ships.
> 
>  
> 
> https://www.vox.com/2020/2/23/21149327/coronavirus-pandemic-meaning-italy
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Colin Stanners
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2020 12:58 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)
> 
>  
> 
>  It seems that America's enemies know that the best way to 
> have America's economy crumble is to let the Trump rallies go on 
> fully unimpeded. 
> 
>  
> 
> A kill rate of 2% seems small as statistic, but that's still a few 
> thousand currently dead, including many medical staff, who are being 
> mourned by their friends and families. It's likely that the number of 
> people killed by coronavirus will surpass that of the 9/11 attacks 
> shortly.
> 
>  
> 
> Most frightening is that with its virulence, if uncontrolled it could 
> infect or have infected millions or much more, then suddenly that 2% 
> dead becomes unimaginable.
> 
>  
> 
> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 11:55 PM Steve Jones 
>  wrote:
> 
> You dont think releasing something as hyped up as kungflu at a major 
> public gathering, especially a trump rally wouldnt be a major terror 
> success? CNN and MSNBC would be advertising for the terrorists 24/7. 
> By the time they were done with it, it could have killed zero people, 
> and everyone would still be hid out in their house listening to their 
> propaganda. Our economy would crumble
> 
>  
> 
> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 9:14 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> Not for me. So far it has mostly been meh.
> 
>  
> 
> bp
> 
>  
> On 2/22/2020 6:48 PM,

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

2020-02-25 Thread Lewis Bergman

Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it
> really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific
> requirements.
>
> If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get,
> then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band,
> so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
> If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider.
> Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually
> shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can
> get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but
> that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance
> anyway. Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and
> they also have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs...
> they're also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a beam
> forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier to aim then the Ignitenets
> (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet).
>
> None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think
> they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same
> time.
>
> If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing
> (which is pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be
> done), then Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just
> stick with AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what
> they cost, it makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that
> distance. You could also go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half
> duplex radios, and I don't think that they can handle a full 2gbps
> aggregate.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave  wrote:
>
>> I guess it depends on the 9s you want.
>> Cheaper is not always better for consistency.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> No way I would consider AF24HD for this.  You can get 80ghz links for
>> less that do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps).
>>
>> Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat.  Aviat
>> probably gives you the best bang for your buck.  Cambium has a new mmWave
>> product, but I don't know anything about it.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave  wrote:
>>
>>> Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take all
>>> of your 5g spectrum and
>>> there is the ptp850E
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>>
>>> What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see
>>> Cambium has something that looks like it will work but their product
>>> selector returns no matches .
>>>
>>> Ubiquiti has the 24HD.
>>>
>>> Anything else I should be aware of?
>>> --
>>> Lewis Bergman
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

2020-02-25 Thread Sean Heskett

Good choice Lewis!

We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been really
amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on
keepin on!!

-Sean


On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it
>> really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific
>> requirements.
>>
>> If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get,
>> then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band,
>> so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
>> If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider.
>> Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually
>> shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can
>> get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but
>> that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance
>> anyway. Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and
>> they also have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs...
>> they're also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a beam
>> forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier to aim then the Ignitenets
>> (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet).
>>
>> None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think
>> they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same
>> time.
>>
>> If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing
>> (which is pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be
>> done), then Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just
>> stick with AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what
>> they cost, it makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that
>> distance. You could also go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half
>> duplex radios, and I don't think that they can handle a full 2gbps
>> aggregate.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave  wrote:
>>
>>> I guess it depends on the 9s you want.
>>> Cheaper is not always better for consistency.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>>
>>> No way I would consider AF24HD for this.  You can get 80ghz links for
>>> less that do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps).
>>>
>>> Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat.  Aviat
>>> probably gives you the best bang for your buck.  Cambium has a new mmWave
>>> product, but I don't know anything about it.
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave  wrote:
>>>
 Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take
 all of your 5g spectrum and
 there is the ptp850E


 On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

 What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see
 Cambium has something that looks like it will work but their product
 selector returns no matches .

 Ubiquiti has the 24HD.

 Anything else I should be aware of?
 --
 Lewis Bergman


 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Lewis Bergman
> 325-439-0533 Cell
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

2020-02-25 Thread Darin Steffl

The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with
dishes and everything.

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> Good choice Lewis!
>
> We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been really
> amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on
> keepin on!!
>
> -Sean
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it
>>> really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific
>>> requirements.
>>>
>>> If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get,
>>> then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band,
>>> so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
>>> If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider.
>>> Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually
>>> shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can
>>> get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but
>>> that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance
>>> anyway. Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and
>>> they also have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs...
>>> they're also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a beam
>>> forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier to aim then the Ignitenets
>>> (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet).
>>>
>>> None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think
>>> they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same
>>> time.
>>>
>>> If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing
>>> (which is pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be
>>> done), then Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just
>>> stick with AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what
>>> they cost, it makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that
>>> distance. You could also go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half
>>> duplex radios, and I don't think that they can handle a full 2gbps
>>> aggregate.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave  wrote:
>>>
 I guess it depends on the 9s you want.
 Cheaper is not always better for consistency.



 On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

 No way I would consider AF24HD for this.  You can get 80ghz links for
 less that do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps).

 Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat.  Aviat
 probably gives you the best bang for your buck.  Cambium has a new mmWave
 product, but I don't know anything about it.

 Josh

 On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave  wrote:

> Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take
> all of your 5g spectrum and
> there is the ptp850E
>
>
> On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see
> Cambium has something that looks like it will work but their product
> selector returns no matches .
>
> Ubiquiti has the 24HD.
>
> Anything else I should be aware of?
> --
> Lewis Bergman
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lewis Bergman
>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

2020-02-25 Thread Lewis Bergman

I don't know anyone that sells Aviat.

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:30 PM Darin Steffl  wrote:

> The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with
> dishes and everything.
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> Good choice Lewis!
>>
>> We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been really
>> amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on
>> keepin on!!
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it
 really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific
 requirements.

 If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get,
 then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band,
 so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
 If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider.
 Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually
 shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can
 get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but
 that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance
 anyway. Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and
 they also have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs...
 they're also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a beam
 forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier to aim then the Ignitenets
 (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet).

 None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think
 they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same
 time.

 If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing
 (which is pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be
 done), then Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just
 stick with AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what
 they cost, it makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that
 distance. You could also go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half
 duplex radios, and I don't think that they can handle a full 2gbps
 aggregate.

 On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave  wrote:

> I guess it depends on the 9s you want.
> Cheaper is not always better for consistency.
>
>
>
> On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> No way I would consider AF24HD for this.  You can get 80ghz links for
> less that do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps).
>
> Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat.  Aviat
> probably gives you the best bang for your buck.  Cambium has a new mmWave
> product, but I don't know anything about it.
>
> Josh
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave  wrote:
>
>> Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take
>> all of your 5g spectrum and
>> there is the ptp850E
>>
>>
>> On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>
>> What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see
>> Cambium has something that looks like it will work but their product
>> selector returns no matches .
>>
>> Ubiquiti has the 24HD.
>>
>> Anything else I should be aware of?
>> --
>> Lewis Bergman
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lewis Bergman
>>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium LTE

2020-02-25 Thread Adam Moffett


+1 on all counts.

My experience with LTE CPE wasn't a lot better.  If you point out any 
shortcoming in the CPE, Telrad just pointed their finger at Gemtek (and 
whoever made the 8000).  I could choke their throats all day long, but 
allegedly they couldn't do anything about it.  I wouldn't mind buying a 
Cambium (or Ubiquiti) LTE CPE because at least I know who to complaint at.



On 2/25/2020 6:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


When we dipped our toe in the WiMAX pool (Purewave, not Cambium) one 
of the things I didn’t like was everyone wanted to sell basestations 
and rely on the WiMAX “ecosystem” to supply CPEs.  And those CPEs 
(like Greenpacket) were wimpy little things with low xmt power, small 
low gain antennas, and limited feature set.  I forget who the OEM was 
for Mercury’s CPEs, they were cute and a little better on the feature 
set, but still not much power or antenna gain.


So it is good to see Cambium developing their own CPE, both 3 GHz 450, 
and cnRanger.  And not making them wimpy little things.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Mangriotis via AF
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 25, 2020 3:59 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* Matt Mangriotis 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium LTE

I completely understand your skepticism Ken. However, Cambium did 
design the 3 GHz 450m with every intention of being able to support a 
transition to LTE (specifically, as a RRH with cnRanger). The intent 
is for this device to be a fully capable 8x8 MU-MIMO. Yes, you’ve got 
that right though, you’ll need new CPE devices and a BBU for each sector.


We don’t have a target date when this will be developed yet… right 
now, we’re focused on getting the cnRanger CBRS 2x2 RRH and High Gain 
Cat 6 CPE devices out in August!


With respect to NLOS coverage, I will agree that 450 is not quite on 
par with some of the things that LTE brings to the table (regarding 
range and the ability to maintain the downlink). However, with the 
increased power limits of CBRS, the 450m does an admirable job. In 
fact, in comparing equipment cost and performance, I would suggest 
that the 450 platform outperforms anything out there. That is, it’s 
less expensive to get bandwidth where it needs to be (at a higher 
rate, and to more customers). If the customer density can support the 
cost of cnMedusa, you’re going to be better off from total cost of 
ownership (both CapEx and OpEx) perspective.


The new 3GHz 450b High Gain has 29 dBm Tx Pwr, and a 20 dBi dish 
integrated antenna… this is pretty impressive for CBRS CPE equipment 
(most of the high gain/high power LTE stuff I see is only going to be 
23 dBm Tx, plus 15 dBi antenna).


There are several customers out there that have done these 
comparisons… hopefully, they can chime in.


Matt

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> 
*On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof

*Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 7:06 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' >

*Subject:* [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE

You should probably talk to someone at Cambium, unless someone here 
has already done that.  There was talk 1-2 years ago about 450m is 
software defined so maybe they could use it as a remote radio head 
with their cnRanger LTE BaseBand Unit (BBU).  It has been pretty quiet 
since then, but I haven’t been able to make it to the shows.


Without an update directly from the horse’s mouth like Matt at 
Cambium, or some kind of announcement, I wouldn’t hold my breath.  
Back in 2018 it was in the realm of “it would be nice”.  That’s pretty 
tentative.  Plus you’d still have to buy the BBU and new CPE, so it 
doesn’t sound like a huge savings anyway, still 2/3 of a forklift 
upgrade. I mean, if it turned out that the 3 GHz cnRanger RRH was 
literally a 450m, that would probably be the best case, but how likely 
do you think that is?


This is just my personal speculation, if it’s an important part of a 
decision you’re making now, you probably need to get hold of your 
Cambium regional sales manager, or the 450 or cnRanger product 
manager.  If you’re going to WISPAmerica, you can probably do it there.


*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> 
*On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie

*Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 6:03 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE

So the 450M is supposed to be LTE upgradable?

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 3:45 PM Steve Jones > wrote:


Something aboit the medusa top can be used with cnranger
potentially with a fiber run and a software update

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 3:38 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

In my opinion, 450 is better than Baicells or Telrad LTE at
everything except NLOS performance.

Except that NLOS performance is so useful that one can be
tempted to ignore all of the other features of the 450.  I do
understand that tradeoff because I've had to make

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium LTE

Was green packet the one with that stalker salesguy

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 5:48 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> When we dipped our toe in the WiMAX pool (Purewave, not Cambium) one of
> the things I didn’t like was everyone wanted to sell basestations and rely
> on the WiMAX “ecosystem” to supply CPEs.  And those CPEs (like Greenpacket)
> were wimpy little things with low xmt power, small low gain antennas, and
> limited feature set.  I forget who the OEM was for Mercury’s CPEs, they
> were cute and a little better on the feature set, but still not much power
> or antenna gain.
>
>
>
> So it is good to see Cambium developing their own CPE, both 3 GHz 450, and
> cnRanger.  And not making them wimpy little things.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Mangriotis via AF
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 25, 2020 3:59 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Matt Mangriotis 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium LTE
>
>
>
> I completely understand your skepticism Ken. However, Cambium did design
> the 3 GHz 450m with every intention of being able to support a transition
> to LTE (specifically, as a RRH with cnRanger). The intent is for this
> device to be a fully capable 8x8 MU-MIMO. Yes, you’ve got that right
> though, you’ll need new CPE devices and a BBU for each sector.
>
>
>
> We don’t have a target date when this will be developed yet… right now,
> we’re focused on getting the cnRanger CBRS 2x2 RRH and High Gain Cat 6 CPE
> devices out in August!
>
>
>
> With respect to NLOS coverage, I will agree that 450 is not quite on par
> with some of the things that LTE brings to the table (regarding range and
> the ability to maintain the downlink). However, with the increased power
> limits of CBRS, the 450m does an admirable job. In fact, in comparing
> equipment cost and performance, I would suggest that the 450 platform
> outperforms anything out there. That is, it’s less expensive to get
> bandwidth where it needs to be (at a higher rate, and to more customers).
> If the customer density can support the cost of cnMedusa, you’re going to
> be better off from total cost of ownership (both CapEx and OpEx)
> perspective.
>
>
>
> The new 3GHz 450b High Gain has 29 dBm Tx Pwr, and a 20 dBi dish
> integrated antenna… this is pretty impressive for CBRS CPE equipment (most
> of the high gain/high power LTE stuff I see is only going to be 23 dBm Tx,
> plus 15 dBi antenna).
>
>
>
> There are several customers out there that have done these comparisons…
> hopefully, they can chime in.
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 7:06 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE
>
>
>
> You should probably talk to someone at Cambium, unless someone here has
> already done that.  There was talk 1-2 years ago about 450m is software
> defined so maybe they could use it as a remote radio head with their
> cnRanger LTE BaseBand Unit (BBU).  It has been pretty quiet since then, but
> I haven’t been able to make it to the shows.
>
>
>
> Without an update directly from the horse’s mouth like Matt at Cambium, or
> some kind of announcement, I wouldn’t hold my breath.  Back in 2018 it was
> in the realm of “it would be nice”.  That’s pretty tentative.  Plus you’d
> still have to buy the BBU and new CPE, so it doesn’t sound like a huge
> savings anyway, still 2/3 of a forklift upgrade.  I mean, if it turned out
> that the 3 GHz cnRanger RRH was literally a 450m, that would probably be
> the best case, but how likely do you think that is?
>
>
>
> This is just my personal speculation, if it’s an important part of a
> decision you’re making now, you probably need to get hold of your Cambium
> regional sales manager, or the 450 or cnRanger product manager.  If you’re
> going to WISPAmerica, you can probably do it there.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 6:03 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE
>
>
>
> So the 450M is supposed to be LTE upgradable?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 3:45 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> Something aboit the medusa top can be used with cnranger potentially with
> a fiber run and a software update
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 3:38 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> In my opinion, 450 is better than Baicells or Telrad LTE at everything
> except NLOS performance.
>
> Except that NLOS performance is so useful that one can be tempted to
> ignore all of the other features of the 450.  I do understand that tradeoff
> because I've had to make it myself.
>
>
>
> On 2/24/2020 4:30 PM, David Williamson wrote:
>
> 450 3.65Ghz vs. Baicells 3.65Ghz LTE = no comparison.  All but one of the
> 450 APs are already removed from our network.  I am just trying to
> determine if the SMs will be usable on Cambium LTE once they roll it out,
> or if it will require a completely different SM.
>
>
> David
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

Aviat only sells direct

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 8:32 PM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> I don't know anyone that sells Aviat.
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:30 PM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with
>> dishes and everything.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> Good choice Lewis!
>>>
>>> We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been really
>>> amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on
>>> keepin on!!
>>>
>>> -Sean
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.

 On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
 wrote:

> At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it
> really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific
> requirements.
>
> If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can
> get, then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that
> band, so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
> If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider.
> Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually
> shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can
> get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but
> that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance
> anyway. Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and
> they also have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs...
> they're also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a beam
> forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier to aim then the 
> Ignitenets
> (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet).
>
> None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I
> think they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at 
> the
> same time.
>
> If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing
> (which is pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be
> done), then Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just
> stick with AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what
> they cost, it makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that
> distance. You could also go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half
> duplex radios, and I don't think that they can handle a full 2gbps
> aggregate.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave  wrote:
>
>> I guess it depends on the 9s you want.
>> Cheaper is not always better for consistency.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> No way I would consider AF24HD for this.  You can get 80ghz links for
>> less that do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps).
>>
>> Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat.  Aviat
>> probably gives you the best bang for your buck.  Cambium has a new mmWave
>> product, but I don't know anything about it.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave  wrote:
>>
>>> Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take
>>> all of your 5g spectrum and
>>> there is the ptp850E
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>>
>>> What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see
>>> Cambium has something that looks like it will work but their product
>>> selector returns no matches .
>>>
>>> Ubiquiti has the 24HD.
>>>
>>> Anything else I should be aware of?
>>> --
>>> Lewis Bergman
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
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 --
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 AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

2020-02-25 Thread Ken Hohhof

Aviat sells direct via their web store.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 8:32 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

I don't know anyone that sells Aviat. 

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:30 PM Darin Steffl mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> > wrote:

The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with dishes 
and everything. 

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett mailto:af...@zirkel.us> > wrote:

Good choice Lewis!

We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been really amazed 
during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on keepin on!!

-Sean

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > wrote:

At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it really 
comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific requirements. 

If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get, then 
just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band, so just 
pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have. 

If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider. Ignitenet 
an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually shipping yet), 
have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can get a bit better 
range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but that's not really going 
to make a lot of difference at that distance anyway. Ignitenet is the only one 
with an SFP port, if that matters, and they also have a radio that's capable of 
2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs... they're also the most expensive of the cheap 
options. Mikrotik uses a beam forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier 
to aim then the Ignitenets (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used 
their radios yet). 

None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think they're 
all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same time.

If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing (which is 
pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be done), then 
Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just stick with 
AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what they cost, it 
makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that distance. You could also 
go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half duplex radios, and I don't think 
that they can handle a full 2gbps aggregate.

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com> > wrote:

I guess it depends on the 9s you want. 
Cheaper is not always better for consistency. 

On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

No way I would consider AF24HD for this.  You can get 80ghz links for less that 
do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps). 

Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat.  Aviat probably 
gives you the best bang for your buck.  Cambium has a new mmWave product, but I 
don't know anything about it.

Josh

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com> > wrote:

Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take all of 
your 5g spectrum and
there is the ptp850E

On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see Cambium has 
something that looks like it will work but their product selector returns no 
matches . 

Ubiquiti has the 24HD.

Anything else I should be aware of?
-- 

Lewis Bergman

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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium LTE

I'm thinking the Cambium LTE CPE might be the best option even if we don't
use their basestations... it'll be interesting to see what they come up
with.

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 8:41 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> +1 on all counts.
>
> My experience with LTE CPE wasn't a lot better.  If you point out any
> shortcoming in the CPE, Telrad just pointed their finger at Gemtek (and
> whoever made the 8000).  I could choke their throats all day long, but
> allegedly they couldn't do anything about it.  I wouldn't mind buying a
> Cambium (or Ubiquiti) LTE CPE because at least I know who to complaint at.
>
>
> On 2/25/2020 6:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> When we dipped our toe in the WiMAX pool (Purewave, not Cambium) one of
> the things I didn’t like was everyone wanted to sell basestations and rely
> on the WiMAX “ecosystem” to supply CPEs.  And those CPEs (like Greenpacket)
> were wimpy little things with low xmt power, small low gain antennas, and
> limited feature set.  I forget who the OEM was for Mercury’s CPEs, they
> were cute and a little better on the feature set, but still not much power
> or antenna gain.
>
>
>
> So it is good to see Cambium developing their own CPE, both 3 GHz 450, and
> cnRanger.  And not making them wimpy little things.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Matt Mangriotis via AF
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 25, 2020 3:59 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Cc:* Matt Mangriotis 
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium LTE
>
>
>
> I completely understand your skepticism Ken. However, Cambium did design
> the 3 GHz 450m with every intention of being able to support a transition
> to LTE (specifically, as a RRH with cnRanger). The intent is for this
> device to be a fully capable 8x8 MU-MIMO. Yes, you’ve got that right
> though, you’ll need new CPE devices and a BBU for each sector.
>
>
>
> We don’t have a target date when this will be developed yet… right now,
> we’re focused on getting the cnRanger CBRS 2x2 RRH and High Gain Cat 6 CPE
> devices out in August!
>
>
>
> With respect to NLOS coverage, I will agree that 450 is not quite on par
> with some of the things that LTE brings to the table (regarding range and
> the ability to maintain the downlink). However, with the increased power
> limits of CBRS, the 450m does an admirable job. In fact, in comparing
> equipment cost and performance, I would suggest that the 450 platform
> outperforms anything out there. That is, it’s less expensive to get
> bandwidth where it needs to be (at a higher rate, and to more customers).
> If the customer density can support the cost of cnMedusa, you’re going to
> be better off from total cost of ownership (both CapEx and OpEx)
> perspective.
>
>
>
> The new 3GHz 450b High Gain has 29 dBm Tx Pwr, and a 20 dBi dish
> integrated antenna… this is pretty impressive for CBRS CPE equipment (most
> of the high gain/high power LTE stuff I see is only going to be 23 dBm Tx,
> plus 15 dBi antenna).
>
>
>
> There are several customers out there that have done these comparisons…
> hopefully, they can chime in.
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 7:06 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE
>
>
>
> You should probably talk to someone at Cambium, unless someone here has
> already done that.  There was talk 1-2 years ago about 450m is software
> defined so maybe they could use it as a remote radio head with their
> cnRanger LTE BaseBand Unit (BBU).  It has been pretty quiet since then, but
> I haven’t been able to make it to the shows.
>
>
>
> Without an update directly from the horse’s mouth like Matt at Cambium, or
> some kind of announcement, I wouldn’t hold my breath.  Back in 2018 it was
> in the realm of “it would be nice”.  That’s pretty tentative.  Plus you’d
> still have to buy the BBU and new CPE, so it doesn’t sound like a huge
> savings anyway, still 2/3 of a forklift upgrade.  I mean, if it turned out
> that the 3 GHz cnRanger RRH was literally a 450m, that would probably be
> the best case, but how likely do you think that is?
>
>
>
> This is just my personal speculation, if it’s an important part of a
> decision you’re making now, you probably need to get hold of your Cambium
> regional sales manager, or the 450 or cnRanger product manager.  If you’re
> going to WISPAmerica, you can probably do it there.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 6:03 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE
>
>
>
> So the 450M is supposed to be LTE upgradable?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 3:45 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> Something aboit the medusa top can be used with cnranger potentially with
> a fiber run and a software update
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 3:38 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> In my opinion, 450 is better than Baicells or Telrad LTE at everything
> except NLOS performance.
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)