Yes, they have radar info showing almost the entire last 5 minutes of the
flight.
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 10:00 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
Where are you getting the information on the flight profile?
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 2/25/2020 8:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
5000 fpm descent for 15 seconds is not controlled flight. I don’t think you
can get 5000 fpm even with full collective down and autorotation.
He would have had to do full collective down plus cyclic pushed forward and
to the left. To me that sounds like a medical incident.
From: Cameron Crum
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
A good friend of mine flew helos in the Army and is rated on everything from
Apaches to Chinooks, and is now a helo pilot instructor. After looking at the
FAA video and the stuff they have released, he said it was simply controlled
flight into terrain. Basically, the guy didn't know where he was and flew that
thing right into that hillside. He probably saw the ground at the last second
and pulled up, but by then it was too late.
On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 8:25 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
!!!!
Mechanical or medical problem.
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 24, 2020, at 9:10 PM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
This a/c had radar altimeter... youtube blancoliro channel for more.
On 2/24/20 11:17 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
You'd never catch me flying in a chopper IFR unelss I had some sort of
terrain following radar or radar altimeter. Too many wind towers, powerlines,
and those pesky telecom towers ..
I've flown with real chopper pilots and they always always are
concerned with towers even though they need to stay above 500ft.
Imagine fumbling around in this while you can't see a thing outside.
--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com
To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 2:04:32 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
The Sikorsky S-76B is a big bird. Not cheap. Maybe 10 to 13 million
depending on condition.
I suspect this has some parallels to the thing with Bill Graham 20
years ago or something. I think Graham pressured the pilot to fly even though
the conditions were not very good (awful at that time). They hit power lines in
low visibility.
Helicopter pilots can sometimes cut corners.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 2/24/2020 10:47 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
Doubt it. It was poor decision after poor decision. Should never
have flown. Mist rolling in from the hills could obscure things below 1 mile
easily. Choppers and mountains don't mix with all the updrafts and
unpredictable wind patterns. ESPECIALLY downdrafts. (I like to fly the Huey
in DCS and its a pain to land with a slight downdraft)
Most choppers don't have much to navigate IFR other than an NDB if
they are lucky they have a VOR which would require IFR and some preplanning.
Especially in mountains. I'd assume since he was rich as hell that they'd
have a GPS capable nav air like a GNS 530 (pretty cheap) so it would have some
nav aids but not necessarily terrain loaded.
It was just dumb to press your luck in an aircraft not designed for
IFR "on the fly"
--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "chuck" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 1:03:43 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
OK, so I am bored. Hit delete.
The pilot of the helicopter is getting trashed because he asked for
SVFR (special VFR) and got denied on a prior flight. He proceeded anyway.
On the crash flight he asked for VFR flight following. They denied
it due to his altitude. I have had that happen to me dozens of times. It does
not indicate anything other than radar can only see so low.
91.155
A helicopter may be operated clear of clouds if operated at a speed
that allows the pilot adequate opportunity to see any air traffic or
obstruction in time to avoid a collision.
91.157
This part allows helicopters to fly SVFR even when flight visibility
is below 1 statute mile when required for other aircraft.
This part also allows helicopters to operate SVFR at night while
other aircraft would have to be IFR certified with an instrument rated pilot.
This part allows helicopters to take off or land a helicopter even
when the ground visibility is below 1 statute mile.
On the prior flight people are using to claim he was a bad pilot, he
was proceeding low and slow as allowed but he was in a particular area of
controlled airspace that required permission to do so. Not that it was
reckless or dangerous.
His only other option was trying to file what is called a “pop up”
IFR flight plan. I have had to do that before when the weather changed. It is
a pain, takes some radio time to do but it is a legal way forward. Or he could
have found a place to land perhaps. He got busted doing what was probably the
safest, but not legal, thing to do.
I don’t think this calls his skills into question.
The ship was flying but doing a rapid turning descent for some time
before the crash.
Either he got really bad vertigo or he was attempting to autorotate
due to a mechanical failure.
I don’t think he got vertigo. When you are in the clouds you use the
autopilot if you have one. He had one.
He was a high time IFR rated pilot.
If you hit clouds you mind switches to using the instruments and
getting yourself out of trouble or staying out of trouble. .
This was a Sikorsky S-76B Very large helicopter. Has an auto pilot
and almost certainly had an auto hover feature due to the fact that it was used
for search and rescue in a prior life. You can simply stop them and hover if
you find yourself uncertain of your position.
Maybe he had a heart attack.
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