youtube blancoliro channel has extensive technical coverage
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6SYmp3qb3uPGuyuppTJCAKYhskLrixpn
On 2/25/20 9:05 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
It was part of a news piece I read. They had a very nice graphic.
Not sure where I saw it. Could have been fake news I suppose.
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 25, 2020 10:04 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
Is this public information?
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 2/25/2020 9:02 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Yes, they have radar info showing almost the entire last 5 minutes of
the flight.
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 25, 2020 10:00 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
Where are you getting the information on the flight profile?
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 2/25/2020 8:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
5000 fpm descent for 15 seconds is not controlled flight. I don’t
think you can get 5000 fpm even with full collective down and
autorotation.
He would have had to do full collective down plus cyclic pushed
forward and to the left. To me that sounds like a medical incident.
*From:* Cameron Crum
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:11 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
A good friend of mine flew helos in the Army and is rated on
everything from Apaches to Chinooks, and is now a helo pilot
instructor. After looking at the FAA video and the stuff they have
released, he said it was simply controlled flight into terrain.
Basically, the guy didn't know where he was and flew that thing
right into that hillside. He probably saw the ground at the last
second and pulled up, but by then it was too late.
On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 8:25 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
!!!!
Mechanical or medical problem.
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 24, 2020, at 9:10 PM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
This a/c had radar altimeter... youtube blancoliro channel
for more.
On 2/24/20 11:17 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
You'd never catch me flying in a chopper IFR unelss I had some
sort of terrain following radar or radar altimeter. Too many
wind towers, powerlines, and those pesky telecom towers ..
I've flown with real chopper pilots and they always always are
concerned with towers even though they need to stay above 500ft.
Imagine fumbling around in this while you can't see a thing
outside.
N5NJ | Sikorsky S-76B | Untitled | Cam | JetPhotos
--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com
*To: *"af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Sent: *Monday, February 24, 2020 2:04:32 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
The Sikorsky S-76B is a big bird. Not cheap. Maybe 10 to 13
million depending on condition.
I suspect this has some parallels to the thing with Bill
Graham 20 years ago or something. I think Graham pressured the
pilot to fly even though the conditions were not very good
(awful at that time). They hit power lines in low visibility.
Helicopter pilots can sometimes cut corners.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 2/24/2020 10:47 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
Doubt it. It was poor decision after poor decision.
Should never have flown. Mist rolling in from the hills
could obscure things below 1 mile easily. Choppers and
mountains don't mix with all the updrafts and
unpredictable wind patterns. ESPECIALLY downdrafts. (I
like to fly the Huey in DCS and its a pain to land with a
slight downdraft)
Most choppers don't have much to navigate IFR other than
an NDB if they are lucky they have a VOR which would
require IFR and some preplanning. Especially in
mountains. I'd assume since he was rich as hell that
they'd have a GPS capable nav air like a GNS 530 (pretty
cheap) so it would have some nav aids but not necessarily
terrain loaded.
It was just dumb to press your luck in an aircraft not
designed for IFR "on the fly"
--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"chuck" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
*To: *"af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Sent: *Monday, February 24, 2020 1:03:43 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters
OK, so I am bored. Hit delete.
The pilot of the helicopter is getting trashed because he
asked for SVFR (special VFR) and got denied on a prior
flight. He proceeded anyway.
On the crash flight he asked for VFR flight following.
They denied it due to his altitude. I have had that
happen to me dozens of times. It does not indicate
anything other than radar can only see so low.
91.155
A helicopter may be operated clear of clouds if operated
at a speed that allows the pilot adequate opportunity to
see any air traffic or obstruction in time to avoid a
collision.
91.157
This part allows helicopters to fly SVFR even when flight
visibility is below 1 statute mile when required for other
aircraft.
This part also allows helicopters to operate SVFR at night
while other aircraft would have to be IFR certified with
an instrument rated pilot.
This part allows helicopters to take off or land a
helicopter even when the ground visibility is below 1
statute mile.
On the prior flight people are using to claim he was a bad
pilot, he was proceeding low and slow as allowed but he
was in a particular area of controlled airspace that
required permission to do so. Not that it was reckless or
dangerous.
His only other option was trying to file what is called a
“pop up” IFR flight plan. I have had to do that before
when the weather changed. It is a pain, takes some radio
time to do but it is a legal way forward. Or he could
have found a place to land perhaps. He got busted doing
what was probably the safest, but not legal, thing to do.
I don’t think this calls his skills into question.
The ship was flying but doing a rapid turning descent for
some time before the crash.
Either he got really bad vertigo or he was attempting to
autorotate due to a mechanical failure.
I don’t think he got vertigo. When you are in the clouds
you use the autopilot if you have one. He had one.
He was a high time IFR rated pilot.
If you hit clouds you mind switches to using the
instruments and getting yourself out of trouble or staying
out of trouble. .
This was a Sikorsky S-76B Very large helicopter. Has an
auto pilot and almost certainly had an auto hover feature
due to the fact that it was used for search and rescue in
a prior life. You can simply stop them and hover if you
find yourself uncertain of your position.
Maybe he had a heart attack.
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