From: Rick Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 08:37:55PM +1000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > Being sized up like that always makes me feel like a piece of meet.
> > That sort of feeling has GOT to be the main reason for the 'lesbian
> > seperatist' type of feminism... and really, I can't blame them. I
> > HATE feeling that .. icky.
Lesbian separatism has nothing to do with men. It has everything
to do with women. It has so much to do with women that there is
no room left for it to have anything to do with men.
> I abhor overbroad generalizations---when some person slaps someone
> else with the label "typical male", or says something to the tune
> of "all guys are like this", it really gets my hackles up. [0]
How many of "most" short of "all" does it take before "all" becomes
easier to write than "all of the ones I've ever met, tho there may be
exceptions out there that I've not met yet"?
> That being said, it seems absurd for me to try and argue the point
> "all guys are not jerks" when I see guys all around me
> providing poignant examples that they are, in fact, jerks.
I think that there is a difference in how women see men as jerks
and how men see men as jerks.
For example, I just replied to another man about his dating
attitudes. He made no mention of becoming friends with this
hypothetical target -- it was all about whether or not =he= was
operating in "dating target acquisition mode".
> > And it's NOT inevitable - I know a lot of heterosexual men who either
> > don't do it or who have managed to do it privately, without generating
> > the icky-feeling. (They say they don't do it. I trust them on this
> > point, but admit that I'm not inside their skulls.)
>
> If you're attracted to someone, there's not too much you can do about
> the being-attracted bit. What you do about it, however, is all your
> own call, and the "raging hormones" line doesn't cut it.
Yes, that's true. I was somewhat attracted to the waitress that
served me dinner tonight. As was the woman I had dinner with.
And the sight of her chatting with two rather lesbian looking (no,
really!) women did give both of us hope.
But there was no conversation about "What time do you get off
work tonight?" or "I'll make sure I sit at your table, sweetie" or
"I left you a little something extra".
The "being attracted" bit isn't the problem, in my experience. It's
what men see as appropriate behavior -- and what they'll defend
as appropriate behavior -- when they are attracted.
Years ago I was party to a rather interesting discussion that's
been played out many, many times. But it was the first time I was
in on it. Men were complaining that women didn't initiate romantic
relationships as often as women. Rather than consider that
perhaps this is because women have real lives or maybe just aren't
interested at the moment, the answer to "the problem" from the
male perspective seemed to be blaming women for not initiating
the kinds of relationships needed for them to get their rocks off.
Now I'm going to say this in the kindest possible way so as to
avoid offending any more men than necessary -- if you are a man
and you believe the solution to all your dating problems is getting
women to ask men out more often, you probably suffer from the
same kinds of behavior problems that I would use to conclude
you're a jerk.
-- Julie.
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