On Tue, 8 Aug 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The first stage in being able to change yourself is recognising
> yourself, recognising parts of yourself, and recognising blindnesses
> you have.
Granted.
> Most people who are sexist (to themselves or to others) don't recognise
> it in their own actions, statements, or assumptions. This does NOT make
> them 'downtrodden souls', or even 'willing victims',it just makes them
> human.
I never said that A necessarily followed B. It can though.
> Actually, I could make a good cause for that statement 'you'd rather
> be a downtrodden soul' to be sexist and even self-victimising... it
> implies that "it" (whatever "it" is) is one's own fault. It creates
> blame where none exists.
(dunno if you noticed, btw, but the person I was responding to had a male
name and I presumed the person was male, not female. I don't think, based
on your reaction, that you were aware of this?)
I have known a LOT of people who preferred to be downtrodden souls for
reasons that made sense to them (but not to me). Specifically: "recovery"
group addicts, widow(er)s who chose not to move on in life but wait for
death, etc. Speaking as someone who found recovery groups useful for a
limited time and found grief support groups too limited.
Some people get stuck. The prior post resonated with that. It has nothing
to do with sexism per se. Nor especially one of fault.
But, as you have taken issue with my presentation, I will say that three
people in my life have in fact thanked me for being that harsh with them
when they were pulling the downtrodden soul act. One, a former computer
programmer, had driven escrow papers for ten years before snapping out of
it and getting a job as a software QA engineer.
> Mind you, I don't feel that either gender is necessarily more
> 'oppressed' than the other.
I agree and I think that is, ultimately, my point. We *see* the female
side, being female. But the baggage of what men are "supposed to" do is
equally odious and I was trying to bring that up (such as bringing up the
issue of custody/child support).
Or, as a friend of mine put it, "I'm so damn tired of being treated as a
penis and a paycheck. Or, at least I was until being bi became the fashion
and I only get used half as much." ;)
What we need to do as humans is look at the whole system, both sides,
without prejudice.
> Accusations at all, or statements which can be taken as accusations,
> don't help. Of course, I'm guilty of that too. :) It's the easy way
> to get your point said.
Hey, I'm a Klingon Diplomacy Academy graduate. It comes in more useful
than you might think.
--
_Deirdre * http://www.sfknit.org * http://www.deirdre.net
"We can always count on the British. Except for the Revolutionary War
they've been perfect." -- Mel Brooks, on the first Concorde flight since
the Paris crash.
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