Up until recently, I was able to play some mainstream video games, but I lost the rest of my eyesight almost a year ago. I can confirm that part of it was menu layout memorization, and for certain role-playing games/real-time strategy games, hotkeys were a big part of playing them. Unfortunately, where I ran into trouble was with navigating (particularly the third-person/first-person perspective games) and reading dialogue/menues.
In many J-RPG's, e.g. Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, and here's an obscure one for you: Xenogears, the menu layout stayed the same. Also, in many of these games, if you went into the equipment menu and highlighted a weapon/armor/other accessory, there was an indicator as to whether or not the equipment in question would do you any good. This usually involved the new values conferred by the equipment showing up in a different color (and I had the eyesight to see this). However, in a western-style RPG, e.g. Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age: Origins, Pillars of Eternity or Skyrim, this is absent. Also, the layouts are more difficult to memorize in these latter instances. We haven't even touched on action-RPG's either, e.g. Diablo II, Titan's Quest or Torchlight. When I had a little eyesight, I could, sort of, play these, but it took a lot of work and extra effort. With Diablo II, for example, every time I leveled/found new gear I had to open up a third-party utility called Hero Editor that actually played nicely with JAWS (sort of) to make the necessary changes to my character. Anyway, once I get my new computer up and running, I am going to try to learn how to program. After I try to create a Dungeons and Dragons character creator for the blind (5th edition), providing I am successful, I would try my luck at creating a game. I do not know if I will have any luck/will be able to do this, but I would rather try and fail, then simply never try. It is my turn, now, to apologize for the lengthy message... On 10/27/16, Paul Lemm <paul.lem...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Justin, > > To be fair I've never quite understood how people manage to play these > games > myself, as I've heard of people playing mortal combat, Teken,guitar hero > even down to things like castlevania , I think a lot of it is done by > memorising menu layouts,,, routes, and map lay outs via trial and error > etc., in fact I occasionally play my little boy at teken vs street fighter > , although he sets it up since I can't navigate the menus I imagine I could > if I wanted learn the layout of menus and navigate it to start a game > myself, and I do occasionally win to, which is probably down to remembering > all the moves/combo's from when I used to play, so I can see to a degree > how with enough memorisation and practise that you could play some games > in > this way., I guess you could argue that if you have to put that much effort > into remembering so much about the game to be able to play it, that does > it then lose some of the fun of the game? I guess it all comes down to how > much you want to play the game and how much effort you want to put into > learning /memorising all that stuff in a game to be able to play it, but I > don't have any proof of anyone playing these games, other than my somewhat > frantic button tapping teken with my boy lol, and I do also admit that > some > games would definitely be more playable to some degrees by a blind person > with no accessibility adaptations and some games it just wouldn't be > possible at all, but and we'll probably just have to beg to differ on this > one, but I still think a lot of games, but definitely not all of them could > be made slightly more accessible for blind people by the main stream > developers if they wanted, but your also right that unless a game is > written from the ground up with the accessibility for the blind in mind > from > the start then the game will never feel like an audio game , since it will > have not been designed like that and also would lose a lot of the game > detail and playability missing out on the more graphical stuff in the > game, > still as mentioned I'd happily give that up to get some basic way of > navigating a final fantasy game and some text to speech to read all the > menus etc., well I can dream lol. Anyway talking of dreaming its late here > so off to bed, good to talk, oh and sorry for the long message! > > Paul > So the > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin Jones > Sent: 28 October 2016 00:13 > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory > > Okay, fair enough, no offense intended, but I'd like to see some > sources on that, i.e. articles/blogs/something-or-other detailing how > these people have managed to pull this off. I'd love to know how it > would be possible to play, say, Pillars of Eternity or the original > Baldur's Gate as a blind person. If this is doable, I am more than > willing to admit my error. Until then, as is so often said on the > Internet: proof or it didn't happen. > > On 10/27/16, Paul Lemm <paul.lem...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi Justin, >> >> Not to sound argumentative , but I believe the point of making quake >> accessible was to prove that you could take a main stream game and make >> it >> accessible . I do believe that if it is possible to turn a game like >> Quake >> which is a completely graphical game that was designed with no >> accessibility >> in mind and with the intent for purely sighted people to play, then >> similar >> techniques could be used for most games, as if you could incorporate text >> to >> speech for on screen text and could implement a system for identifying >> objects, walls, your players position and the location of enemy players >> etc. as quake does it would allow blind people to play these games, >> admittedly it wouldn't be as blind friendly as a game designed > specifically >> for the blind, but it would definitely open up these games to be played >> by >> the blind if they wanted, especially when there are blind people who >> manage at present to play games like this without any accessibility >> adaptations, as I've heard of people playing all kinds of fighting games, >> old NES and SNES games and even of one person playing one of the final >> fantasy games, although I still struggle to understand how you could do >> that >> last one with no accessibility lol,, but none the less they have. >> Unfortunately though as mentioned previously although I do think this >> could >> be written into main stream games , that it would still cost the > developers >> money and they wouldn't recoup the extra spend through the few extra >> copies of the games they would sell, so it is probably highly unlikely to >> happen, which is a real shame as I'd love to pick up and play one of the >> final fantasy games again as used to love playing those games. >> >> Paul >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin > Jones >> Sent: 27 October 2016 21:44 >> To: Gamers Discussion list >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory >> >> Perhaps with first-person shooters something could be done, but games >> in the role-playing, fighting and real-time strategy genres cannot be >> made accessible unless accessibility is built in from the ground up. >> >> On 10/27/16, Paul Lemm <paul.lem...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hi I disagree with the statement it is not possible to make main stream >>> games accessible, I think the audio Quake project proves that you can >>> take >>> a >>> main stream game and make it accessible , unfortunately the sad truth of >> it >>> is that to the companies that make these games , the money it would cost >>> them to add in accessibility features would be a lot more than the extra >>> games they would sell because of the added accessibility. I did hear >> that >>> there was a chance that Microsoft may build in there text to speech >>> narrator >>> to the xBox, but again I would imagine this would be unlikely to work >>> with >>> games as the developers of these games would need to write there games >>> differently to allow screen readers to interact with them, like many >>> mainstream games on the iPhone don't work with screen readers. So I'm >>> afraid to say that I don't think main stream developers will ever make >>> an >>> audio game, the best we could ever hope for is slightly more >>> accessibility >>> , >>> but the fact they are all so heavily driven by huge profits I can't see >>> that >>> happening and like others have said I see the best audio games coming >> from >>> either our own excellent audio game programmers or indy developers. >>> >>> Paul >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin >> Jones >>> Sent: 25 October 2016 13:01 >>> To: Gamers Discussion list >>> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory >>> >>> No, actually, there is not a way to make current mainstream games >>> accessible, unless, of course, they already have accessibility >>> features built in. >>> >>> It does not help us (blind folks), but all of Relic Entertainment's >>> games provide subtitles for all spoken dialogue in their games, >>> starting with Company of Heroes and onward. >>> >>> If we want accessible games, we are going to have to find a way to >>> convince a mainstream developer, i.e. any company that develops >>> mainstream games, to take a crack at creating something for us. But, >>> and here is the thing, it has to be presented in such a way that they >>> will be able to make a profit, i.e. we (the blind community) have to >>> be willing to pay for it and not complain how it is not free to play. >>> >>> On 10/25/16, lenron brown <lenro...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Steam pisses me off majorly. The xbox one and ps4 are both accessible. >>>> So if they was away for narator to pull the text from games we would >>>> be golden. I still love my consoles even though you can get a lot of >>>> the same games for computers. My comp only has 6 gb of ram and >>>> probably not the best graphics card anyways. All I have ever really >>>> wanted is for main stream games to be accessible and I am sure there >>>> is away to do this. >>>> >>>> On 10/25/16, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote: >>>>> Sadly "just having the sounds turned into pictures" is easier said >>>>> than >>>>> done, likewise I doubt game stop (which I assume is rather like game >>>>> station >>>>> >>>>> is over here in the Uk), would stock independently produced games. >>>>> >>>>> If there was an audiogames console, the plane fact is only blind >>>>> people >>>>> would buy it and it's doubtful anyone would develop games with >>>>> graphics >>>>> for >>>>> >>>>> it. Plus, to be brutally honest, why should I pay for additional >>>>> hardware >>>>> when I already have a computer and an Iphone that can play games no >>>>> problem? >>>>> When a sighted person buys a games consoles, there are lots of games >>>>> that >>>>> won't! be available on their pc, or mac or whatever, however as a >>>>> blind >>>>> person that is not the case, and I don't think you could find a >>>>> dedicated >>>>> list of developers willing to write games for a new platform when they >>>>> could >>>>> >>>>> already develop games for Windows pc, Ios, or even Mac or Android and >>>>> know >>>>> they'd have a dedicated pool of users who already have the hardware >>>>> and >>>>> inclination to buy their games without laying out additional costs. >>>>> >>>>> Developing audiogames for actual graphical consoles like the >>>>> playstation >>>>> or >>>>> >>>>> xbox might be a possibility, though even there you have the problem of >>>>> firstly how a blind person accesses the text in the game with no >>>>> software >>>>> or os based synthesisers (I have heard importing of things like sapi >>>>> onto >>>>> Xbox and ps4 has been tried but I'm not sure how it went), also >>>>> manifestly >>>>> you have the problem that only some blind users will have consoles, >>>>> and >>>>> of >>>>> the potential sighted users of games consoles it's uncertain how many >>>>> would >>>>> >>>>> buy an audiogame anyway making development of it worth while. >>>>> >>>>> Game consoles come from a time when most people didn't own computers, >>>>> and >>>>> when the dedicated processing power and potentials of the hardware >>>>> was >>>>> far >>>>> >>>>> more than a similar computer system. That however is fading these days >>>>> no >>>>> longer the case, most people already own a computer or smart phone and >>>>> can >>>>> play games on it, indeed I've heard steam (irritating as it is for >>>>> their >>>>> lack of access), called the next step in consoles, ie, a virtual os >>>>> that >>>>> doesn't come with any hardware at all but runs on the user's own >>>>> existing >>>>> devices. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So bottom line, I don't really think a console for the blind would >>>>> work >>>>> at >>>>> all, at most it'd mean laying out extra expense for a few users and >>>>> for >>>>> developers to write for a platform with potentially even less users >>>>> than >>>>> normal, and it's even less likely that such a console would be picked >>>>> up >>>>> by >>>>> >>>>> sighted people. >>>>> >>>>> Better focus on platforms everyone! has access too than try to create >>>>> another, heck look at the interest by sighted players in games like >>>>> pappasangre on the Iphone. >>>>> >>>>> all the best, >>>>> >>>>> Dark. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >>>>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>>>> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >>>>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>>>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>>>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>>>> list, >>>>> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Lenron Brown >>>> Cell: 985-271-2832 >>>> Skype: ron.brown762 >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >>>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>>> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >>>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >>>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>> list, >>>> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >>> atreides...@gmail.com >>> (254) 624-9155 >>> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >>> >>> --- >>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >>> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >>> >>> >>> --- >>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >>> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >>> >> >> >> -- >> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >> atreides...@gmail.com >> (254) 624-9155 >> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> > > > -- > Justin M. Jones, M.A. > atreides...@gmail.com > (254) 624-9155 > 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > -- Justin M. Jones, M.A. atreides...@gmail.com (254) 624-9155 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
