Great. Can you describe,in what ever detail seems right, what that seeming consists of?
nick On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 4:47 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> wrote: > Mirror recognition (or usage) took a while for my dog to learn. She seems > perplexed by the fact humans and dogs look different. While I don’t know > she is looking at herself, she seems to understand the difference between > me in a mirror and me right in front of her. She no longer thinks it is > another dog. > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Stephen Guerin > *Sent:* Monday, July 15, 2024 1:17 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV. > > > > On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 10:54 AM Nicholas Thompson < > thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Here is an example If you play a dog's bark back to him, does he respond > as if it's the bark of an intruder? > > If not, that suggest some sort of self recognition mechanism, given that > the bark I give sounds a heluva lot different from the bark I would hear > if if I were the hearer of my own bark. > > > > Nick > > > Dog recognizing its own bark may be close to the self-recognition in > mirror test which dogs and cats fail (and some humans). Dogs do recognize > their own odor in many tests. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test > > +-----------------+---------------------------+ > | Species | Mirror Self-Recognition | > +-----------------+---------------------------+ > | Infants | Yes (18-24 months) | > | Monkeys | No | > | Chimps | Yes (2-3 years) | > | Dolphins | Yes (2-3 years) | > | Democrats | Yes (18-24 months) | > | Elephants | Yes (2-3 years) | > | Magpies | Yes | > | Republicans | Mixed | > | Gorillas | Mixed | > | Orangutans | Yes | > | Pigeons | Mixed | > | Octopi | No | > | Dogs | No | > | Cats | No | > +-----------------+---------------------------+ > > > > Amsterdam, B. (1972). Mirror self-image reactions before age two. > Developmental Psychobiology, 5(4), 297–305. > https://doi.org/10.1002/dev.420050403. > https://redfish.com/papers/Amsterdam-1972-Mirrorself-imagereactionsbeforeagetwo.pdf > EGallup, G. G. (1970). "Chimpanzees: Self-recognition." *Science*, > 167(3914), 86-87. https://sci-hub.se/10.1126/science.167.3914.8 > <https://sci-hub.se/10.1126/science.167.3914.86> > > Reiss, D., & Marino, L. (2001). "Mirror self-recognition in the bottlenose > dolphin: A case of cognitive convergence." *Proceedings of the National > Academy of Sciences*, 98(10), 5937-5942. > https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.101086398 > <https://www.pnas.org/content/98/10/593> > > Plotnik, J. M., de Waal, F. B., & Reiss, D. (2006). "Self-recognition in > an Asian elephant." *Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences*, > 103(45), 17053-17057. https://www.pnas.org/content/103/45/17053 > > > > FWIW, I don't consider self-awareness necessary for consciousness - > though it is an interesting topic to me like theory-of-mind. > > > > -Stephen > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
