Oh, Barry. I forgot to ask you the threshold question. Do you agree that attempting to extend the zone of honest agreement is a worthy goal.
On Sat, Jul 13, 2024 at 3:00 PM Nicholas Thompson <thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: > Without going backward in my conversation, you and I could add this new > data to the data-pack on go on. > > Let's go contrarian for a few strokes. can you think of things that your > Dusty has done that are inconsistent with love. > > Nick > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2024 at 1:23 PM Barry MacKichan < > barry.mackic...@mackichan.com> wrote: > >> I feel permitted to barge in on this discussion, since my dog (well, our >> dog) is also named Dusty. >> >> Frequently, I look up from what I’m doing or reading, and he is in his >> chair looking at me, and we can spend several minutes with our eyes locked. >> I call it love; he doesn’t want to talk about it. I’ve read that this is >> common behavior, and that it results in an oxytocin kick to both >> participants. I think that chemical evidence is a good addition to the >> other data in this discussion. My starting assumption is that if a peptide >> is shared between species, the effects of that peptide probably share >> similar mechanisms. I.e., the simplest explanation is that if it affects me >> through emotions, the effect in my dog is probably through something very >> much like an emotion. I’ve never seen any evidence that this is *not* >> true. >> >> Concerning the list of consequences of a loving relationship at the end >> of your message, I would say all three are absolutely true. My wife had >> covid for the first time several months ago, and whenever she was in bed, >> both our dogs were there. When they see we are upset — a frequent >> occurrence in this election year — they will keep their eyes on us and >> stick with us until they are reassured that we are (sorta) OK. They sense >> emotions better than many humans I have known. >> >> When Dusty was a puppy, and I was out of town, my wife took him on a >> walk, off leash, in the arroyo and slipped and fell on the icy path. When >> she opened her eyes a few seconds later, Dusty had his nose right up >> against her face. >> >> -- >> >> On 12 Jul 2024, at 12:59, Nicholas Thompson wrote: >> >> [Please, Friammers,, if you join this discussion, stay close to this or >> other closely related down-to-earth experiences. >> >> Dave, you offer as data: >> >> >> *Dave is sleepy and calm.* >> >> *Dusty is anxious and afraid.* >> >> *Dusty crawls onto Dave's shoulder and finds reassurance and security.* >> >> *Dave is tolerant and does not shove Dusty off bed.* >> >> *Dave senses Dusty's need for reassurance and rests his arm across her >> back and lets her stay as she is.* >> *Dusty relaxes and goes to sleep.* >> >> You then offer the following guide to interpretation: >> >> >> *Love is not present in this transaction, unless you presume that a >> series of prior interactions created a kind of meta-state of Lovingness >> between the two* >> >> I agree with you that love is a meta state in the sense that it is an >> arrangement of other behavioral states. So I will leave that alone. >> Having so stipulated, I think it is reasonable to say, on the basis of the >> data you set forth, that a meta-state of lovingness exists between you. >> (I would prefer to say you love one another, but partly in deference to SG, >> I will adopt your lingo.] To call your joint behavior loving is to perform >> an abduction. The test of an abduction is to examine the deductions that >> flow from it: >> >> So, if Dave and Dusty have a loving relationship, then, on my >> understanding, the following would be true: >> >> *You would protect one another against harm.* >> *You would attend to one another if either was sick, injured, or >> depressed.* >> *You would become uneasy if you were separated for an unexpectedly long >> time.* >> >> Are these things true? >> >> Nick >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: 5/2017 thru present >> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> >> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: 5/2017 thru present >> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> >
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
