Nick, My daughter says,
"It is a fourth declension noun like apparatus. The plural is the same as the singular, I believe." Frank --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 9:47 AM <thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: > Thank God for not trimming. I was able to catch up on this … um …. Far > flung conversation in one go without opening a thousand messages. Thank > You Marcus. > > > > I have only one comment: Frank, I think it’s *feteri. *Ask you > daughter to make sure. > > > > Nick > > > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Marcus Daniels > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 26, 2022 10:30 AM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics > > > > I used to trim everything, but I tend to get accusations that was trying > to judo chop people and take them out of context. When really, I'm just > trying to delete all distracting context. I think that larding is > ridiculous. Reasonable people can soak up the meaning and respond without > torturing things a word at a time. If that doesn't work, then there is > probably bad faith. > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of glen < > geprope...@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 26, 2022 9:17 AM > *To:* friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics > > > > Yeah, that's a good point. And it's relevant to SteveS' comment on the > metaphorical neutering of stereotypically identified "men". (That category > also would include the "lean in" females, i.e. those who adopt man-ish > behaviors to combat systemic sexism.) Metoo and cancel culture are taken as > Black Mirror to most of the macho conservatives I meet at the pub. But to > me it seems more like freedom. It's a negative liberty, which conservatives > and libertarians don't understand well, even though they claim to base > their ideology on it. Freedom from being forced to drive a 4 wheel drive > vehicle because, well, the government builds roads with your damned taxes. > Freedom from being mugged in the parking lot because the government pays > police with your damned taxes. Freedom from having to filter my water > because the government pays water treatment engineers to build plants and > pipe potable water to your faucet with your damned taxes. > > The metaphorical neutering in progress like metoo and cancel culture is > the freedom from being pelted with shit tossed at you by bottom-feeding > bullies. Now if we could only cancel American Football, I'd be happy. >8^D > ... such an offensive game. > > p.s. Y'all need to trim your posts. I just trimmed, literally, 20k of > FriAM signature fodder from that post. Electricity doesn't grow on trees! > > On 1/25/22 15:37, Marcus Daniels wrote: > > For me, meat-in-vats or Impossible burger tech. is more to address > cruelty. To examine what we do and how -- with apologies to Glen -- it > corrupts us. I think Ezra Klein put it well. > https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/16/opinion/factory-farming-animals.html < > https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/16/opinion/factory-farming-animals.html> > > > > A friend remarked on how her perception of the importance of sex has > changed as she got older. I really think a lot of our perceptions are > driven in that way, and they don't MEAN anything. I think these sundry > appetites are very likely tunable, perhaps with some preceding machine > learning protocol to learn the right neurons to stimulate. To some that's > Black Mirror. To me it seems more like freedom. > > > > Marcus > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of Steve Smith < > sasm...@swcp.com> > > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2022 4:17 PM > > *To:* friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com> > > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics > > On 1/25/22 11:38 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > >> https://goodmeat.co/process <https://goodmeat.co/process> > >> > > 15 years ago, my daughter did her PhD research in HPV... a great deal > of her time was spent "cloning human skin and giving it warts". She was > (is) a died-in-the-wool vegetarian and humanitarian and she was a little > squeamish about that aspect of her work, but couldn't put her finger on why > exactly. She gifted me a copy of the biography of Henrietta Lacks which > was fascinating. I don't know if her skin cells were HeLa, I see lots of > progress in the field of inducing skin cells to develop into STEM cells > (and even into embryos!) so I assume it was possible and perhaps preferred > for the same reason HeLa is used in other fields. > > > > > > I myself have been mostly vegetarian most of my adulthood and while I > still can be persuaded that meat-eating is something humans have evolved to > be good at, I believe as omnivores, we are also very capable of living well > on a vegetarian and even vegan diets. When I have deviated from > vegetarianism, it has been the usual suspects starting with bacon and > hamburgers but including chicken and steak. Most of my peers who avoid > red-meat don't seem to understand that every chicken-life only yields a few > 10-piece nugget McMeals or a couple of fajita plates. I started my > vegetarianism as a boycott against industrial meat-production and the > animal cruelty implicit in it, but now it is augmented/dominated by my > assumptions about planet-scale sustainability of same. > > > > > > I think "growing meat in a vat" is no better (or worse) of a solution to > our global problems than replacing 4000lb ICE vehicles with 5000lb EVs... > while it might be "a good start" or part of a "transition strategy" it > ignores the first-order misunderstanding of the carrying capacity of our > biosphere (as discussed in earlier/alternate threads here). Sure, if the > 1% ers are the only ones that drive (Electric) Hummers and eat 16oz Steaks > (3D printed from vat grown muscle/bone/fat?) daily (even weekly) then these > solutions are probably close to optimal for the moment (decade or two). > But that is not the world I (want to) live in, and one would hope 99% would > not want to either (though there is an aspirational logic to richy-rich > wannabes who support/promote obscene wealth because they imagine they > themselves are on an arc to that kind of imbalance). > > > > > > Regarding meat-chickens. When COVID hit, the first thing I did was run > down to my local farm store and adopt 12 sex-linked chicks to raise for > eggs. I avoided hatching my own from fertilized eggs mainly because I > didn't want to take responsibility for the roughly 50% male chickens I > would get. Sex-Linked chicks are easily sexed because their gross > appearance is significantly different between genders. I understand that > the bulk of the males "culled" to send only laying hens to the likes of me > are pushed into the meat-production industry, though I know in some > contexts DaveW's and EricS's images of culled/discarded male chicks > (smokestacks like holocaust camps) are very real... Most other meat > animals are "harvested" young, as they reach their full growth while > remaining tender. Veal is an extreme version of this. Veal and Pate' > seem like good candidates for vat-growing. > > > > > > My original point about neutering (male) pets and work animals was more > about blunting testosterone-driven behaviour (i.e. aggression, dominance, > and confinement resistance). The Libertarians here may want to point out > that human males are being neutered culturally and circumstantially (and I > don't entirely disagree, and I think the resulting dissonance is a huge > problem for society). > > > > > > Grumble, > > > > - Steve > > > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> < > mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com <friam-boun...@redfish.com>> on behalf > of Steve Smith <sasm...@swcp.com> <mailto:sasm...@swcp.com > <sasm...@swcp.com>> > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:25 AM > >> *To:* friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com>> > <friam@redfish.com> <mailto:friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com>> > >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics > >> > >> > >> On 1/25/22 8:48 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote: > >>> Boneless chicken breasts come from roosters? > >> > >> Top hit on my google... not sure if US is very different from AU: > >> > >> https://www.chicken.org.au/are-meat-chickens-male-or-female/ < > https://www.chicken.org.au/are-meat-chickens-male-or-female/> > >> > >>> --- > >>> Frank C. Wimberly > >>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > >>> Santa Fe, NM 87505 > >>> > >>> 505 670-9918 > >>> Santa Fe, NM > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 8:45 AM Steve Smith <sasm...@swcp.com < > mailto:sasm...@swcp.com <sasm...@swcp.com>>> wrote: > >>> > >>> We neuter many/most male pets and beasts of burden, slaughter many > of them young (e.g. this is where most of our beef and chicken come from). > >>> > >>> We do this for various reasons that are not entirely unrelated to > the larger conversation here... > >>> > >>> On 1/25/22 7:35 AM, David Eric Smith wrote: > >>>> Never too late, Merle. > >>>> > >>>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 9:32 AM, Merle Lefkoff < > merlelefk...@gmail.com <mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com > <merlelefk...@gmail.com>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Yes, they should have drowned the boys. > >>>>> > >>>>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 7:27 AM Frank Wimberly < > wimber...@gmail.com <mailto:wimber...@gmail.com <wimber...@gmail.com>>> > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> But > >>>>> > >>>>> > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide_in_China#20th_century < > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide_in_China#20th_century> > >>>>> > >>>>> --- > >>>>> Frank C. Wimberly > >>>>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > >>>>> Santa Fe, NM 87505 > >>>>> > >>>>> 505 670-9918 > >>>>> Santa Fe, NM > >>>>> > >>>>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 7:16 AM Merle Lefkoff < > merlelefk...@gmail.com <mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com > <merlelefk...@gmail.com>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Dave is right. Development experts have known for a > long time that when girls get educated and women hold jobs outside the home > they are much more likely to control childbearing. However, the culture > must change everywhere, and it happens quite slowly with lots of pushback. > Check out the new protest and direct action movement that's happening with > young men demonstrating in the streets in S. Korea. ("A Vicious > Anti-Feminist Backlash Stuns South Korea", Globe And Mail, 1/22.) > >>>>> > >>>>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 12:40 AM Prof David West < > profw...@fastmail.fm <mailto:profw...@fastmail.fm <profw...@fastmail.fm>>> > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> It has been known for a long time that the most > effective means of birth / population control was educating girls, followed > closely by empowering girls, e.g., with micro-loans to start businesses. I > remember studying this topic way back in the 80s in my anthropology > graduate program. > >>>>> > >>>>> davew > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, at 9:02 PM, Marcus Daniels > wrote: > >>>>>> Merle wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> < China's population has stopped growing--primarily > because there are more urban educated workers, especially women. > > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Estimate in Hawken's book was the 6th largest > potential reduction for CO2 drawdown came from educating girls. His > reference was: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1206964 > < > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.science.org%2fdoi%2f10.1126%2fscience.1206964&c=E,1,dhZqId6BmX_lZAkiZ4KqytELCYK4cwA4xLz977cmeLfMrTYrhP3BmklQPOLEU4fwWN1lRQM2UxbXsMWAXVEDer4Yykb7kz6tIFR9uWjkYw,,&typo=1 > > > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com < > mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com <friam-boun...@redfish.com>>> on behalf > of Merle Lefkoff <merlelefk...@gmail.com <mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com > <merlelefk...@gmail.com>>> > >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 9:40 PM > >>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee > Group <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com>>> > >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics > >>>>>> > >>>>>> China's population has stopped growing--primarily > because there are more urban educated workers, especially women. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 7:11 PM Frank Wimberly < > wimber...@gmail.com <mailto:wimber...@gmail.com <wimber...@gmail.com>>> > wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Excellent, Marcus. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Eric, if it's less than 90% it still would have > be significant. Two problems, "God" has tricks for making babies. As for > 1 child per couple didn't they "terminate" some babies (not fetuses, > feti?), particularly females? My impression is that their population has > grown substantially notwithstanding those policies. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Frank > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> --- > >>>>>> Frank C. Wimberly > >>>>>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > >>>>>> Santa Fe, NM 87505 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 505 670-9918 > >>>>>> Santa Fe, NM > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 6:38 PM Marcus Daniels < > mar...@snoutfarm.com <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com <mar...@snoutfarm.com>>> > wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Before I launch into a diatribe about why > the hell we can't agree to basic, never mind interesting things: I'd just > like to report that the James Webb telescope is in L2 orbit. Score one for > the negotiating, patient, subtlety-appreciating scientists and their > counterparts in government. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Marcus > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com < > mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com <friam-boun...@redfish.com>>> on behalf > of David Eric Smith <desm...@santafe.edu <mailto:desm...@santafe.edu > <desm...@santafe.edu>>> > >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 6:01 PM > >>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity > Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com > <friam@redfish.com>>> > >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics > >>>>>> > >>>>>> You know, as I read your characterization, > Marcus, it took me back to Hannah Arendt’s description of feudal Europe and > the role of the Rothschilds and other big Jewish quasi-stateless fixer > families in relation to the feudal lords. Fussy and indirect seems somehow > very close to the right picture of the stateless ones navigating always > through the cracks and seams, compared to the blunt moves of the ones who > had states. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I have some discomfort that this doesn’t > quite map. Yet it seems not fully dissimilar. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Eric > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Jan 24, 2022, at 7:19 PM, Marcus > Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com > <mar...@snoutfarm.com>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> SFI sponsorship seems like very much a > fideistic declaration. It would be interesting to see how that influence > network feeds into a D.C. influencer network and real money. There are > some linkages, like Brookings, but leverage-wise it all seems much softer > than with LANL and the DOE. And it all seems so fussy and indirect > compared to slapping down a few billion dollars to build a Starship. > That's the appeal of Musk: I'm f'ing doing this. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com < > mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com <friam-boun...@redfish.com>>> on behalf > of glen <geprope...@gmail.com <mailto:geprope...@gmail.com > <geprope...@gmail.com>>> > >>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 5:08 PM > >>>>>>> *To:* friam@redfish.com < > mailto:friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com>> <friam@redfish.com < > mailto:friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com>>> > >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care > logistics > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Well, that ain't true, either. Like > Epstein, when you "invest" in the SFI or people like Steven Pinker or Bill > Clinton, you're simply transferring from one store to another ... buying > influence. If, e.g., the CIA contracts with the SFI to adapt a CAS modeling > tool into a broad spectrum simulation tool, they are not only buying a > (questionable) piece of software; they're buying *leverage* over people's > salaries, loyalty, etc. So those VCs *will* see that money again, perhaps > much less of it, depending on the efficiency of the transaction, or in > fringe storage types (able to get past the receptionist after eating > over-priced peri-Mexican food in order to have tea with smart people). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 1/24/22 15:31, Marcus Daniels wrote: > >>>>>>> > Some of them sponsor SFI for goodness' > sake! They'll never see THAT money again! > > -- > glen > Theorem 3. 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