Yeah, that's a good point. And it's relevant to SteveS' comment on the metaphorical neutering of
stereotypically identified "men". (That category also would include the "lean
in" females, i.e. those who adopt man-ish behaviors to combat systemic sexism.) Metoo and
cancel culture are taken as Black Mirror to most of the macho conservatives I meet at the pub. But
to me it seems more like freedom. It's a negative liberty, which conservatives and libertarians
don't understand well, even though they claim to base their ideology on it. Freedom from being
forced to drive a 4 wheel drive vehicle because, well, the government builds roads with your damned
taxes. Freedom from being mugged in the parking lot because the government pays police with your
damned taxes. Freedom from having to filter my water because the government pays water treatment
engineers to build plants and pipe potable water to your faucet with your damned taxes.
The metaphorical neutering in progress like metoo and cancel culture is the
freedom from being pelted with shit tossed at you by bottom-feeding bullies. Now
if we could only cancel American Football, I'd be happy. >8^D ... such an
offensive game.
p.s. Y'all need to trim your posts. I just trimmed, literally, 20k of FriAM
signature fodder from that post. Electricity doesn't grow on trees!
On 1/25/22 15:37, Marcus Daniels wrote:
For me, meat-in-vats or Impossible burger tech. is more to address cruelty. To
examine what we do and how -- with apologies to Glen -- it corrupts us. I think Ezra
Klein put it well.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/16/opinion/factory-farming-animals.html
<https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/16/opinion/factory-farming-animals.html>
A friend remarked on how her perception of the importance of sex has changed as
she got older. I really think a lot of our perceptions are driven in that
way, and they don't MEAN anything. I think these sundry appetites are very
likely tunable, perhaps with some preceding machine learning protocol to learn
the right neurons to stimulate. To some that's Black Mirror. To me it seems
more like freedom.
Marcus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of Steve Smith
<sasm...@swcp.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2022 4:17 PM
*To:* friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics
On 1/25/22 11:38 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
https://goodmeat.co/process <https://goodmeat.co/process>
15 years ago, my daughter did her PhD research in HPV... a great deal of her time was
spent "cloning human skin and giving it warts". She was (is) a
died-in-the-wool vegetarian and humanitarian and she was a little squeamish about that
aspect of her work, but couldn't put her finger on why exactly. She gifted me a copy of
the biography of Henrietta Lacks which was fascinating. I don't know if her skin cells
were HeLa, I see lots of progress in the field of inducing skin cells to develop into
STEM cells (and even into embryos!) so I assume it was possible and perhaps preferred for
the same reason HeLa is used in other fields.
I myself have been mostly vegetarian most of my adulthood and while I still can
be persuaded that meat-eating is something humans have evolved to be good at, I
believe as omnivores, we are also very capable of living well on a vegetarian
and even vegan diets. When I have deviated from vegetarianism, it has been the
usual suspects starting with bacon and hamburgers but including chicken and
steak. Most of my peers who avoid red-meat don't seem to understand that
every chicken-life only yields a few 10-piece nugget McMeals or a couple of
fajita plates. I started my vegetarianism as a boycott against industrial
meat-production and the animal cruelty implicit in it, but now it is
augmented/dominated by my assumptions about planet-scale sustainability of same.
I think "growing meat in a vat" is no better (or worse) of a solution to our global problems than
replacing 4000lb ICE vehicles with 5000lb EVs... while it might be "a good start" or part of a
"transition strategy" it ignores the first-order misunderstanding of the carrying capacity of our
biosphere (as discussed in earlier/alternate threads here). Sure, if the 1% ers are the only ones that
drive (Electric) Hummers and eat 16oz Steaks (3D printed from vat grown muscle/bone/fat?) daily (even weekly)
then these solutions are probably close to optimal for the moment (decade or two). But that is not the world
I (want to) live in, and one would hope 99% would not want to either (though there is an aspirational logic
to richy-rich wannabes who support/promote obscene wealth because they imagine they themselves are on an arc
to that kind of imbalance).
Regarding meat-chickens. When COVID hit, the first thing I did was run down to my local farm
store and adopt 12 sex-linked chicks to raise for eggs. I avoided hatching my own from fertilized
eggs mainly because I didn't want to take responsibility for the roughly 50% male chickens I would
get. Sex-Linked chicks are easily sexed because their gross appearance is significantly different
between genders. I understand that the bulk of the males "culled" to send only laying
hens to the likes of me are pushed into the meat-production industry, though I know in some
contexts DaveW's and EricS's images of culled/discarded male chicks (smokestacks like holocaust
camps) are very real... Most other meat animals are "harvested" young, as they reach
their full growth while remaining tender. Veal is an extreme version of this. Veal and Pate'
seem like good candidates for vat-growing.
My original point about neutering (male) pets and work animals was more about
blunting testosterone-driven behaviour (i.e. aggression, dominance, and
confinement resistance). The Libertarians here may want to point out that
human males are being neutered culturally and circumstantially (and I don't
entirely disagree, and I think the resulting dissonance is a huge problem for
society).
Grumble,
- Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of
Steve Smith <sasm...@swcp.com> <mailto:sasm...@swcp.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:25 AM
*To:* friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> <friam@redfish.com>
<mailto:friam@redfish.com>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics
On 1/25/22 8:48 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
Boneless chicken breasts come from roosters?
Top hit on my google... not sure if US is very different from AU:
https://www.chicken.org.au/are-meat-chickens-male-or-female/
<https://www.chicken.org.au/are-meat-chickens-male-or-female/>
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 8:45 AM Steve Smith <sasm...@swcp.com
<mailto:sasm...@swcp.com>> wrote:
We neuter many/most male pets and beasts of burden, slaughter many of them
young (e.g. this is where most of our beef and chicken come from).
We do this for various reasons that are not entirely unrelated to the
larger conversation here...
On 1/25/22 7:35 AM, David Eric Smith wrote:
Never too late, Merle.
On Jan 25, 2022, at 9:32 AM, Merle Lefkoff <merlelefk...@gmail.com
<mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Yes, they should have drowned the boys.
On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 7:27 AM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com
<mailto:wimber...@gmail.com>> wrote:
But
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide_in_China#20th_century
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide_in_China#20th_century>
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 7:16 AM Merle Lefkoff <merlelefk...@gmail.com
<mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Dave is right. Development experts have known for a long time that when
girls get educated and women hold jobs outside the home they are much more likely to
control childbearing. However, the culture must change everywhere, and it happens quite
slowly with lots of pushback. Check out the new protest and direct action movement
that's happening with young men demonstrating in the streets in S. Korea. ("A
Vicious Anti-Feminist Backlash Stuns South Korea", Globe And Mail, 1/22.)
On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 12:40 AM Prof David West <profw...@fastmail.fm
<mailto:profw...@fastmail.fm>> wrote:
It has been known for a long time that the most effective means
of birth / population control was educating girls, followed closely by
empowering girls, e.g., with micro-loans to start businesses. I remember
studying this topic way back in the 80s in my anthropology graduate program.
davew
On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, at 9:02 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
Merle wrote:
< China's population has stopped growing--primarily because there
are more urban educated workers, especially women. >
Estimate in Hawken's book was the 6th largest potential
reduction for CO2 drawdown came from educating girls. His reference was:
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1206964
<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.science.org%2fdoi%2f10.1126%2fscience.1206964&c=E,1,dhZqId6BmX_lZAkiZ4KqytELCYK4cwA4xLz977cmeLfMrTYrhP3BmklQPOLEU4fwWN1lRQM2UxbXsMWAXVEDer4Yykb7kz6tIFR9uWjkYw,,&typo=1>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com
<mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> on behalf of Merle Lefkoff <merlelefk...@gmail.com
<mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com>>
*Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 9:40 PM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics
China's population has stopped growing--primarily because there
are more urban educated workers, especially women.
On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 7:11 PM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com
<mailto:wimber...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Excellent, Marcus.
Eric, if it's less than 90% it still would have be significant. Two problems,
"God" has tricks for making babies. As for 1 child per couple didn't they
"terminate" some babies (not fetuses, feti?), particularly females? My impression is
that their population has grown substantially notwithstanding those policies.
Frank
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 6:38 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com
<mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
Before I launch into a diatribe about why the hell we
can't agree to basic, never mind interesting things: I'd just like to report
that the James Webb telescope is in L2 orbit. Score one for the negotiating,
patient, subtlety-appreciating scientists and their counterparts in government.
Marcus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com
<mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> on behalf of David Eric Smith <desm...@santafe.edu
<mailto:desm...@santafe.edu>>
*Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 6:01 PM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics
You know, as I read your characterization, Marcus, it
took me back to Hannah Arendt’s description of feudal Europe and the role of
the Rothschilds and other big Jewish quasi-stateless fixer families in relation
to the feudal lords. Fussy and indirect seems somehow very close to the right
picture of the stateless ones navigating always through the cracks and seams,
compared to the blunt moves of the ones who had states.
I have some discomfort that this doesn’t quite map.
Yet it seems not fully dissimilar.
Eric
On Jan 24, 2022, at 7:19 PM, Marcus Daniels
<mar...@snoutfarm.com <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
SFI sponsorship seems like very much a fideistic
declaration. It would be interesting to see how that influence network feeds
into a D.C. influencer network and real money. There are some linkages, like
Brookings, but leverage-wise it all seems much softer than with LANL and the
DOE. And it all seems so fussy and indirect compared to slapping down a few
billion dollars to build a Starship. That's the appeal of Musk: I'm f'ing
doing this.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com
<mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> on behalf of glen <geprope...@gmail.com
<mailto:geprope...@gmail.com>>
*Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 5:08 PM
*To:* friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>
<friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics
Well, that ain't true, either. Like Epstein, when you
"invest" in the SFI or people like Steven Pinker or Bill Clinton, you're simply
transferring from one store to another ... buying influence. If, e.g., the CIA contracts
with the SFI to adapt a CAS modeling tool into a broad spectrum simulation tool, they are
not only buying a (questionable) piece of software; they're buying *leverage* over
people's salaries, loyalty, etc. So those VCs *will* see that money again, perhaps much
less of it, depending on the efficiency of the transaction, or in fringe storage types
(able to get past the receptionist after eating over-priced peri-Mexican food in order to
have tea with smart people).
On 1/24/22 15:31, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Some of them sponsor SFI for goodness' sake!
They'll never see THAT money again!
--
glen
Theorem 3. There exists a double master function.
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