For me, meat-in-vats or Impossible burger tech. is more to address cruelty. To examine what we do and how -- with apologies to Glen -- it corrupts us. I think Ezra Klein put it well. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/16/opinion/factory-farming-animals.html
A friend remarked on how her perception of the importance of sex has changed as she got older. I really think a lot of our perceptions are driven in that way, and they don't MEAN anything. I think these sundry appetites are very likely tunable, perhaps with some preceding machine learning protocol to learn the right neurons to stimulate. To some that's Black Mirror. To me it seems more like freedom. Marcus ________________________________ From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of Steve Smith <sasm...@swcp.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 4:17 PM To: friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics On 1/25/22 11:38 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: https://goodmeat.co/process 15 years ago, my daughter did her PhD research in HPV... a great deal of her time was spent "cloning human skin and giving it warts". She was (is) a died-in-the-wool vegetarian and humanitarian and she was a little squeamish about that aspect of her work, but couldn't put her finger on why exactly. She gifted me a copy of the biography of Henrietta Lacks which was fascinating. I don't know if her skin cells were HeLa, I see lots of progress in the field of inducing skin cells to develop into STEM cells (and even into embryos!) so I assume it was possible and perhaps preferred for the same reason HeLa is used in other fields. I myself have been mostly vegetarian most of my adulthood and while I still can be persuaded that meat-eating is something humans have evolved to be good at, I believe as omnivores, we are also very capable of living well on a vegetarian and even vegan diets. When I have deviated from vegetarianism, it has been the usual suspects starting with bacon and hamburgers but including chicken and steak. Most of my peers who avoid red-meat don't seem to understand that every chicken-life only yields a few 10-piece nugget McMeals or a couple of fajita plates. I started my vegetarianism as a boycott against industrial meat-production and the animal cruelty implicit in it, but now it is augmented/dominated by my assumptions about planet-scale sustainability of same. I think "growing meat in a vat" is no better (or worse) of a solution to our global problems than replacing 4000lb ICE vehicles with 5000lb EVs... while it might be "a good start" or part of a "transition strategy" it ignores the first-order misunderstanding of the carrying capacity of our biosphere (as discussed in earlier/alternate threads here). Sure, if the 1% ers are the only ones that drive (Electric) Hummers and eat 16oz Steaks (3D printed from vat grown muscle/bone/fat?) daily (even weekly) then these solutions are probably close to optimal for the moment (decade or two). But that is not the world I (want to) live in, and one would hope 99% would not want to either (though there is an aspirational logic to richy-rich wannabes who support/promote obscene wealth because they imagine they themselves are on an arc to that kind of imbalance). Regarding meat-chickens. When COVID hit, the first thing I did was run down to my local farm store and adopt 12 sex-linked chicks to raise for eggs. I avoided hatching my own from fertilized eggs mainly because I didn't want to take responsibility for the roughly 50% male chickens I would get. Sex-Linked chicks are easily sexed because their gross appearance is significantly different between genders. I understand that the bulk of the males "culled" to send only laying hens to the likes of me are pushed into the meat-production industry, though I know in some contexts DaveW's and EricS's images of culled/discarded male chicks (smokestacks like holocaust camps) are very real... Most other meat animals are "harvested" young, as they reach their full growth while remaining tender. Veal is an extreme version of this. Veal and Pate' seem like good candidates for vat-growing. My original point about neutering (male) pets and work animals was more about blunting testosterone-driven behaviour (i.e. aggression, dominance, and confinement resistance). The Libertarians here may want to point out that human males are being neutered culturally and circumstantially (and I don't entirely disagree, and I think the resulting dissonance is a huge problem for society). Grumble, - Steve ________________________________ From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com><mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of Steve Smith <sasm...@swcp.com><mailto:sasm...@swcp.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:25 AM To: friam@redfish.com<mailto:friam@redfish.com> <friam@redfish.com><mailto:friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics On 1/25/22 8:48 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote: Boneless chicken breasts come from roosters? Top hit on my google... not sure if US is very different from AU: https://www.chicken.org.au/are-meat-chickens-male-or-female/ --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 8:45 AM Steve Smith <sasm...@swcp.com<mailto:sasm...@swcp.com>> wrote: We neuter many/most male pets and beasts of burden, slaughter many of them young (e.g. this is where most of our beef and chicken come from). We do this for various reasons that are not entirely unrelated to the larger conversation here... On 1/25/22 7:35 AM, David Eric Smith wrote: Never too late, Merle. On Jan 25, 2022, at 9:32 AM, Merle Lefkoff <merlelefk...@gmail.com<mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com>> wrote: Yes, they should have drowned the boys. On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 7:27 AM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com<mailto:wimber...@gmail.com>> wrote: But https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide_in_China#20th_century --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 7:16 AM Merle Lefkoff <merlelefk...@gmail.com<mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com>> wrote: Dave is right. Development experts have known for a long time that when girls get educated and women hold jobs outside the home they are much more likely to control childbearing. However, the culture must change everywhere, and it happens quite slowly with lots of pushback. Check out the new protest and direct action movement that's happening with young men demonstrating in the streets in S. Korea. ("A Vicious Anti-Feminist Backlash Stuns South Korea", Globe And Mail, 1/22.) On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 12:40 AM Prof David West <profw...@fastmail.fm<mailto:profw...@fastmail.fm>> wrote: It has been known for a long time that the most effective means of birth / population control was educating girls, followed closely by empowering girls, e.g., with micro-loans to start businesses. I remember studying this topic way back in the 80s in my anthropology graduate program. davew On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, at 9:02 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: Merle wrote: < China's population has stopped growing--primarily because there are more urban educated workers, especially women. > Estimate in Hawken's book was the 6th largest potential reduction for CO2 drawdown came from educating girls. His reference was: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1206964<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.science.org%2fdoi%2f10.1126%2fscience.1206964&c=E,1,dhZqId6BmX_lZAkiZ4KqytELCYK4cwA4xLz977cmeLfMrTYrhP3BmklQPOLEU4fwWN1lRQM2UxbXsMWAXVEDer4Yykb7kz6tIFR9uWjkYw,,&typo=1> ________________________________ From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com<mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> on behalf of Merle Lefkoff <merlelefk...@gmail.com<mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com>> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2022 9:40 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com<mailto:friam@redfish.com>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics China's population has stopped growing--primarily because there are more urban educated workers, especially women. On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 7:11 PM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com<mailto:wimber...@gmail.com>> wrote: Excellent, Marcus. Eric, if it's less than 90% it still would have be significant. Two problems, "God" has tricks for making babies. As for 1 child per couple didn't they "terminate" some babies (not fetuses, feti?), particularly females? My impression is that their population has grown substantially notwithstanding those policies. Frank --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 6:38 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com<mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote: Before I launch into a diatribe about why the hell we can't agree to basic, never mind interesting things: I'd just like to report that the James Webb telescope is in L2 orbit. Score one for the negotiating, patient, subtlety-appreciating scientists and their counterparts in government. Marcus ________________________________ From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com<mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> on behalf of David Eric Smith <desm...@santafe.edu<mailto:desm...@santafe.edu>> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2022 6:01 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com<mailto:friam@redfish.com>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics You know, as I read your characterization, Marcus, it took me back to Hannah Arendt’s description of feudal Europe and the role of the Rothschilds and other big Jewish quasi-stateless fixer families in relation to the feudal lords. Fussy and indirect seems somehow very close to the right picture of the stateless ones navigating always through the cracks and seams, compared to the blunt moves of the ones who had states. I have some discomfort that this doesn’t quite map. Yet it seems not fully dissimilar. Eric On Jan 24, 2022, at 7:19 PM, Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com<mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote: SFI sponsorship seems like very much a fideistic declaration. It would be interesting to see how that influence network feeds into a D.C. influencer network and real money. There are some linkages, like Brookings, but leverage-wise it all seems much softer than with LANL and the DOE. And it all seems so fussy and indirect compared to slapping down a few billion dollars to build a Starship. That's the appeal of Musk: I'm f'ing doing this. ________________________________ From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com<mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> on behalf of glen <geprope...@gmail.com<mailto:geprope...@gmail.com>> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2022 5:08 PM To: friam@redfish.com<mailto:friam@redfish.com> <friam@redfish.com<mailto:friam@redfish.com>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics Well, that ain't true, either. Like Epstein, when you "invest" in the SFI or people like Steven Pinker or Bill Clinton, you're simply transferring from one store to another ... buying influence. If, e.g., the CIA contracts with the SFI to adapt a CAS modeling tool into a broad spectrum simulation tool, they are not only buying a (questionable) piece of software; they're buying *leverage* over people's salaries, loyalty, etc. So those VCs *will* see that money again, perhaps much less of it, depending on the efficiency of the transaction, or in fringe storage types (able to get past the receptionist after eating over-priced peri-Mexican food in order to have tea with smart people). On 1/24/22 15:31, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Some of them sponsor SFI for goodness' sake! They'll never see THAT money > again! -- glen Theorem 3. There exists a double master function. .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 //bit.ly/virtualfriam<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2f%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,Bs44DlTaI1WEXEq0NSBr15BCv-Ay-aa1kq-9usvBVmAlL_2L-wt2jFcq0K3_LluON20-PPp8oGdK_kIT9OPUGeYNxR_ZWxqm8YEYFFtBGj4,&typo=1&ancr_add=1> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,_1_2wS7IldMDPwBJyGPWSMU6RdsOukgD_2vnWGl6DNSrgeYdUuDf6CYBjOqyX_pSBJlXsLrzEjfRktuCJ11uiUTXojgH9ai5XrvYbrMgjQqVPQ,,&typo=1> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,GEXdHYfLENh8tJJRVAieMoATOjlFfx7J7kpr8CPC9uYztZh_Y6GoESzXtIAnRC_8wQPec95C6Os8XTHeBClvqVLaa6LaGHlpqVUBsnsk01oviR9eYUNm5Jc,&typo=1> archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,Bl6wrUz6nRTpuFyouDQuYgtc4_U6BFV5QMwZVahBXbAleW3MFe1VZjY6L3nam5AONZXW3jEbOtSDZg5siD3a7ygVwK0Gkm9NUaulbpU0Yg,,&typo=1> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2f%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,d1dUckpXhO6D3fdsCJT6CAJ8MVeXVMY41EzVWje9Ukt1uDd8vM_0tEIIONOrru9p0wnOfT54hj3szZg93dY2dXrjU10dsgGsCq73UCxQtnvQUB1dyw,,&typo=1 un/subscribe https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,4X07Fg1vuZL_lepIfQaoudYXvWqXyEvkrC1Mt1QkjKwpwvYudx02WXBUv0dFGjWiDZObT_bSpN1-9FfVQY8djZUkkwiEqHwJeyzbvsqm&typo=1 FRIAM-COMIC https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,Pc0NT3hYkY85nAvXUHgVTxcd9orHKeaV3UTspAYNCCjbGcwWm5Krr-Bu9pMqXzSNGNWLskR3WsJC7fIUFxKpaAkB1Yp3XwdL-glIYs1tF51xaCY,&typo=1 archives: 5/2017 thru present https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,3FOsBIomkE4aBPR2G0b--8WW2Bw2OGdqkW5IR3gZ-UMLAd3X3Ag2ViSw9-cggp0Rq2R7Yh9LMwpBixJ5HmgLEUEUEs_CVSyH9vgyQ49fp8fE&typo=1 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,SKk_FTyBI2ewHY6oWt7JQxi9QsxrDIGK2-8gjAgLFW7tJ9YyFIz-Xdp4lwrRy5RI7kpNOjRDSyfW1WzJwELIO9d1ugM0Wg5GydOLD0NPPTDmwO1Y&typo=1> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,XM_bA7JU4szBpDqlXqKOImFhv1Ve3wkaPE6T7qAGsEhA0ynP3DLVvtqMZ9ZAs8ieu7Bf1ry1py_MerCLMMfHhICv3zsijqVUWMaOqJd2eu3zORertevsFjSPKQ,,&typo=1> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,zyr6YQGjsrffwQp8s3S7dKyU1JoFoA_1qJVxtoXFdc93Fm4SrfQcwBgT4fQtHkE0EL3fXYhNhsz0D02zgwahdHCc3eouec4IDrp0bfJhDwqBeYPz0s6MeC1FAg,,&typo=1> archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,yURp_aKcwD2E8LKzD7ZzEPEwGdCNJwtrzGhdcdXNzL0m2FUIc8uLI32NTRJ0ncxnZFtWdJEoPRj4LQ4DVqNdXhlqJgkDgtCV2ASrZk6yrUqN3N_DcL6hE9M,&typo=1> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,xy4OTbJ1fsCvDOhMgm3wCBTtx9xPAcvnaxMZeMESkGz3ty2m2seOnf63j-RMeazD32XN3EZ7LQ3BUdaqJESbv_ROnXC297S5kNj8G2shbuk,&typo=1> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,WjkFS3je0GjJ7OnO6aCvWRFvlCuDf7plyt6RYGzbPko6O5SA1NkU59xp05B41ffnEV08kqbFaNZZQ0XxKcPfB4p2WHNlMdQCM0kAyCWq&typo=1> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,eWzoEEVn_9LveTz-OSkCRpitWXcOAPyDFCJu71oxLep22lhfP9oJNYUqYqrIz_M7eXGaFEMPXDRwWuaSBskMlT-QuQug1kpJMi4-45kDV5yFuQ,,&typo=1> archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,uDH_1Q-gqlwRmhEVL-4_fLDFXwbi5RKmCmYlOk5Ku5oOwLVwJTFGTpFzxB8Z6dVGH2cSlAsRAeHlQwZBl5TeCHd9ZUDnhmhIGCaz1A35ng,,&typo=1> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ -- Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. Center for Emergent Diplomacy emergentdiplomacy.org<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2femergentdiplomacy.org&c=E,1,l1x0pLZu8pBi_WkdggPVBNl27a1btPqgJdg7abjNZUsC1ll3ODbH0gsfLSIWID40_e4ePaWNfve97Qlxdj4eybTTPG_jRSInqNCiNKHW&typo=1> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA mobile: (303) 859-5609 .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,Gg0E32TU65wJU262OV54o9YOctOysLPaaNbYmulvYlRWzq9VE8Q6HOVw8vXuqZhqnaTgVt9laYh2ISC1Zsf4JLRXYxbqXdCiwBHoFCy3Qdv9PVU,&typo=1> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,i5phGx8vuTcCuiEKldfWjMbnHyu7pufCMv5LO-XJoSjqdnonVyzpPEm8BiFmffdxCJ9PMXJPysLQQB2hBzZXLoQtzy_xCe4xGdt9PmMT9PDAVA,,&typo=1> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,gB2Bg5D6Q8hrOnTjH9UlZQn_J3mlBcxU9z8lVfayV1bBX8Ljfm78jSqNZrTO8UWwp7lik6khxi-aerCorp6teJzf4Pd_q2mQvZFlURtSymfp9oVRL_GkGubv6zU,&typo=1> archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,dpJ-JHCbwB7gUX9TRRWwIF-NJo5phhwFxjoo4e2n2n3GWL5mQcZIMpe0k6zWYeDRGUdFZko8NXs4WR-lgZdcnfHuT25NBT6-rh5MKLjRe0W2WK9c1SU,&typo=1> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,XRi5xetvjbYVN_7f8n33iYU3W5r0nKf0QvXFNVCAGKETH8ZRCsCldmMxR_9mecHjoLkeajfSHY95QF9bUfFF5w6lQYsTXAyDyAQldDfD4fAN21ESP7qhVAUwG18n&typo=1> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,WCcljRnyrUtIJBXalHhBOcDgFGULWZIZUtpJFWSPFUhMQZ4sDqUGKYlueV0XETLdhTi3oNrr_RmJ6jDKv2-Vz7OWiYJijTgA6fIglqSND-wODUqv5VAD&typo=1> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,IthGBoXsp18JUHm1l2NvdUmd6pD4yV6IYMhCuYWYawmCW-dtycT6auT7cR7IlFDieIV1nGU3YrLeL3dlQK5WOY6upkMDm9K2x7qI465OHdLUpT23&typo=1> archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,HBlNtyI_HQu8YWBnwiXqYuVf84hQbzsrlHs3ysHGR7lDXNPj330smTNEBBuaP1xqUTUweTyomzYEVp8NmyNfv6N8-y3XgpAMm93GvgttibjU5cRZW3V9uJNjdoA,&typo=1> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ -- Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. Center for Emergent Diplomacy emergentdiplomacy.org<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2femergentdiplomacy.org&c=E,1,hMHD61hjErM4LgUdk3SZAd4YlMCrKghmyNT685L-cGm1hpHuk1DP7kS3ZZUMWAFsLbl0WfsMfqt4rubNrsdQcYZbEudYzk7p106IlqSp-wnLvB4ta08E&typo=1> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA mobile: (303) 859-5609 skype: merle.lelfkoff2 twitter: @merle110 .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,LP5lCHV9y0XRFkua4WxxDBVDPgF8Df4c-MUzHMFgVodrkyLcY3j4erjKUPklh9Y34AQfncRFoit49KMZ3gbwD5JOb1IZuuHO5uffLltfxFPtzxARAwo6J_M7pe8C&typo=1> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,j_j2YegglprSstce3gkhK96t949E-JyZ0BnRNtDmJOzY4ydxaw2rE1NvD9_D-NSSGw9h80ooCXsOLebrQwnl1v2oR-avnV7SQGPAJ6p1ncitT7ARyuWO03aX60I,&typo=1> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,ojCwmLF0TfKKrLyca2N9r2JlW4i5WDLy4nQpAem3ySzOaF-mOksDspBIFpPyNBt1NjXz97ibfzUGLpUKEd1h_uCwoks-oJOtBMfyBian80pKlxA5cBZfDQ,,&typo=1> archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,O9nOWUVGVCcjJz985EKAtn7vjbqcXxYMsEiRXVhvVmBzvyNmxFOh5oi1X1IfbxluN67RcOMLvzCdd9RF_IfyHppmQVZtp-ol3Wv8NbUkQWJtpMAcR8fK&typo=1> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,4dV4NXIARSWCtcadS54VEJ6TDkhkuVqmUbxvYCgEB3uDzrcAn0nOCk5zo1seSIgJ-A9exANaQzuhKUILzmMOtIVvosAL0sPayT-Z34Bq1xBW95Rj_UNBvzZveA,,&typo=1> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,V7HOJrghjq76oXROQXW-PmyS9bkk_AxbvrBW0tw7KpJEoCtS-ypP680H4yZNfhRBthR8LUUEEh_uGXifnQGEZuNXed9zqvsyp_yNZH9gY0IR9AG4X9c,&typo=1> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,NQocVMUVW6Js80-U1MoKk46KfigdaZADInF1pcVda-WHq_trtB2AizibMC9ucvYBDWTnMe7m9la2xMJw2TrbOZwoVH5QfAr6qcEWfDdqQg,,&typo=1> archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,n645M9O_b6OxCed7Vb7MDTrxdeDVIQFGW3jusYQcqoWw7ine82zRlZ2HY8P3erCNntbKFwoxHJ19qor1Me0mwKER3EWCrqAUsO9yBqStPdYqsnGm&typo=1> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ -- Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. Center for Emergent Diplomacy emergentdiplomacy.org<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2femergentdiplomacy.org&c=E,1,c73WoibuCIpF8IwGRMKwChtpKZ5mmxuJeae2c_wrNe7k9_fSuM4rHUCKLdNfxGyrCqlb9u0-30GiamaNgw0Gf23kM1KiGYHOS3WuQzGM33hmCtDXL8V0FSU,&typo=1> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA mobile: (303) 859-5609 skype: merle.lelfkoff2 twitter: @merle110 .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2f%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,fXaxJY7KkYJA9IrKtASScFDs0MQktKNoIvQTMN6xVeXKTV3VR9-5lrQITys4QIY55EjXolZiJBtzG0taurtV3TfRpM6OMVV5fEp2Ol5FPzwOoX4Jqg3elzA,&typo=1 un/subscribe https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,A0gSjH8VMaFVh0vWTgD23OoYjyTUD4xTnY-_ZVnLDjpTADkmiIcUxyIxUah9hyeZ5Qj0Zd9DhjyeG7u89JR6TSRPRDkUZwZsqyb24k36tNTtaPeGZDOoxw,,&typo=1 FRIAM-COMIC https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,xs2cf8jRsW_0TkKWGt2Eg2DBXwoJ_9O0ADaOYtXlWUv-aragZzDG4tFUnHPBwzm6iOyl_JiiObtCe-elQAcEHvNtp_TSqmDB1gBa9t6IssTW&typo=1 archives: 5/2017 thru present https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,8OmLl5wFwgx2yOSrQOBXsI9KvHifldM77yvL7ta7JBFuV2WvEoKsSjkjk2qnRlYnV_3gVjmoVxc6VKbxE5iwsjfQ3GfaFX4RHobJNO3DC9z0RIP06w,,&typo=1 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe<http://bit.ly/virtualfriamun/subscribe> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam<http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
