HI -
I recently started using thunderbird for email and can't seem to
understand how to insert my comments inline with others' in a way that
is readily understood, but to address a few points from the below:
- Pros/cons of Tesla and separately its CEO are rich topics to me. Glad
to see that you are able to look at both.
- the primary point of this thread for me is in my view worth getting
back to for a moment. It is to look at this question (as from the
subject heading) of Tesla wanting to buy out free supercharging. I want
to emphasize that they don't just want to buy it out, but they provide
another incentive to get out of the car, which is that the older
vehicles equipped with the full-blown free transferable life-of-vehicle
supercharging arguably are hobbled enough (and with some strong question
around Tesla will allow us to pay to improve them) that it is not worth
it to many of us to stay in the vehicle. I see very few news or
analysis articles which look at the phenomenon of extraordinarily slow
supercharging of old Teslas that have free supercharging, and so one
thing I don't know is whether this is rare, and more detail as to what
the rates of charging are of many other vehicle owners.
- related to this issue of Tesla's approach to free supercharging:
* I took a look at Tesla's most recent annual. They do explicitly talk
about the free supercharging, but I am not knowledgeable enough about
this area of finance to understand how they are looking at it on their
books:
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000095017023001409/tsla-20221231.htm
I've been wondering about this because in theory, arguably, we're
talking about an obligation that they've taken on in perpetuity, or
until all the vehicles are removed from circulation.
* The question is also begged to discuss post-warranty upkeep and
maintenance. If it costs $20k every 5 or 10 years to replace batteries
and other what-not, then this helps us understand the long-term value of
the vehicle. On the other hand, for how long would Tesla sell
replacement batteries? Maybe they will not want to make the 18650s
forever. If they offer eventually modifications to allow for use of
2170 or 4860 batteries, then would they demand that drivers give up the
free supercharging in return?
* The new Model S and X appear to be in the range of just below to above
$100k. So, some drivers might want to pay for battery and other
replacement parts for many decades, seeing the vehicle they're
maintaining as nearly as good as a $100k vehicle, and the free
supercharging in some ways making it better.
On 5/17/2023 2:05 PM, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:
On 17 May 2023 at 6:52, Josh Landess via EV wrote:
"...I don't know that you have noticed, but there is quite a bit of
Tesla negativism" here on EVDL. I fail to understand it. ..."
On 5/17/2023 2:05 PM, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:
I wouldn't say that there's "quite a bit of Tesla negativism" here. Maybe it
seems that way to the folks who are devoted Tesla fans and loyalists.
There are a few of us who have reservations about Tesla's cars, Tesla,
and/or its CEO. There are also a few who seem to have unswerving loyalty to
the cars, the company, and the CEO. I think that the two sides probably
just about balance out.
As for myself, I have mixed views. They do not balance out to exactly
"equal", but I try to give credit ... I guess I have a summary view on
certain things.
I haven't taken a survey and I don't plan to, but my impression is that most
people here also fall somewhere in the middle.
In the particular case of the issue under discussion (incentives for
giving up vehicles equipped with the free supercharging), I do think
there is possibly (but not definitely) an element of sleaze to Tesla's
throttling some packs to charge at such slow rates that the owner is
incentivized to get rid of the vehicle.
I expect that the diehard Tesla lovers will find a way to justify just about
anything that others might call sleaze.
Meanwhile, the Tesla skeptics willl say that it confirms what they always
suspected.
Let's face it - questionable or sleazy business practice is par for the
libertarian-capitalist course. Nothing is more important than "shareholder
value," ya know.
In that way Tesla is pretty much like everybody else.
Maybe it's just me, but that seems kind of disappointing from a company that
used to talk up how they were going to save the world from ... whatever.
Oh, also, "Don't be evil."
So it goes.
Thanks to Tesla for advancing the state of the art in EVs, and for showing
other automakers, drivers, and *governments* what's possible.
But NO thanks to Tesla for breaking laws - for example VOC limits - and
labor standards. I read that they were also hit with more than 800
environmental lawsuits in Germany. It's amazing what Tesla get away with,
usually with, at most, just a little slap on the wrist.
NO thanks to Tesla for the way they've often treated their factory workers,
expecially women and minorities. Lawsuits there too.
And NO thanks to Tesla for control-freaking their cars. As Phil and Sharkey
suggest, If they can take away features without asking you, you don't really
own your Tesla.
Tesla is far from the only game in town for EVs. USians have many more
choices now than 10 years ago, and the selection is even wider in Europe.
So I think it's a good thing having a Tesla-preference balance here on the
list, and talking about it. That way you're well informed when you decide
where you're going to spend your hard earned EV bucks.
David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
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