On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 5:02 PM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:59 AM Johan Corveleyn <jcor...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 10:47 PM Daniel Ferradal <dferra...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > In my humble opinion, I don't like labels, medals, awards, bands, > > > distinctions, badges, ribbons, stars, trophies or anything similar > > > that distinguish anyone from any other. As I see it, it's a form of > > > manipulation to persuade people to achieve more than they might want > > > and may probably lead to people feeling better than others or just the > > > opposite, which is worse. > > > > > > ASF being what it is, all volunteers doing whatever they can or want, > > > time, life, family or will permits, but a necessary few that work > > > professionally to maintain operation, I don't like the idea of using > > > this kind of "corporate encouragement". > > > > > > I understand the idea behind this is probably well meant, but that > > > does not make me like it anyway. > > > > +1, not a fan of such badges either. > > > > In our often volunteer-driven projects it's already difficult, IMHO, > > to make a new PMC member feel empowered just as much as the old-timer > > that's been around for 20 years, perhaps even founded the project. In > > my experience, such badges often scare away new people (who might be > > very talented / have great, fresh ideas), if they get the feeling that > > it's an old-guru-club. Especially if during discussions some people's > > arguments are given more weight, just because they wear a badge. > > > > But isn't the whole ASF built around an individual merit and 'badges' ? > Commiter, Project PMC, ASF member, ASF PMC status is all about "earned > authority" and badges. > By definition when you are a new person in any ASF project, you have no > rights whatsoever, you have to earn it by what you say and do. And you get > to wear a "badge" of a committer and then PMC when you earn it. > Having a "PMC member of project A" or "Commiter in project B" badge, grants > you certain rights. And it is public information already. > And to be honest all that is actually subjective - a decision by a group of > people. All the rules of ASF try to make it more "objective" - by > discussion, voting and such but still it's a meritocracy, no matter if you > like it or not. > > In this sense, having X commits, N presentations or being involved for Y > years is a very-objective metric, which everyone can validate easily and > has exactly the meaning you yourself put to it by your own judgment - no > more, no less. And it's something to be proud of by the one wearing the > badge, not to take advantage of it. At least that's what I see it is. > > Also it has a nice "aspirational" part to it. It would be nice to see other > ASF members who made 100 commits last year and had 3 talks at the > ApacheCon. This is a true, real engagement you show. And yeah. I value > people who - despite all their daily obligation - find their time to > contribute to the community. This makes me value them more as people, but > this does not change the value they bring to a "merit" when there is a > project discussion. > > I think it's what I really love in the ASF that it's ok to wear a badge, > but also it's OK to not pay attention to it by others. I often don't. And I > actually think NOT paying attention to someone's badge when you discuss > the merit is a value on its own. > But there is also a difference when it comes to decision making (actual > voting) rather than discussions. There "badges" matter and for a good > reason - because with powers to decide, comes also responsibility. So it's > good to know those `badges` when decisions are made. > > I think rather than liking/unliking we should think where, when and how > such badges should be used. +1 > > - Should I "flash" "badge of committer" when I am taking part in a > discussion in a project ? Surely not. The argument "I wear a badge, so > my > words are more important" is a very bad idea, and If I see it, the > value of > such a person's opinion (not the person) tanks immediately in the > discussion in my eyes. > - Should I "flash" the "badge of committer" when we are voting on an > important subject for the project and my voice is "binding". Yes. > Certainly. This is why the "badge of being a committer" is for. We are > all > doing so by stating (+1/-1 binding) in the discussion. > - Should I "flash the "badge of 2 years committer and PMC member of a > project" I was contributing to for 2 years and made 100s commits to it > when > I am publicly speaking about it - hell yeah. I am proud of what I've > been > doing, I love to promote my project and I think it's great to share > the experience with others - such a badge helps to stand out from the > crowd > of people who did not make such a commitment. > - SHould I "flash the badge of an ASF member" when I am promoting the > values of ASF, the ASF way when publicly speaking - hell yeah. Likely I > got > invited because I - at least to some extent - understood and followed > the > values and principles of ASF. > > And having a common, public way of sharing such "badges" to the public is a > great idea. It might be a really nice tool to promote ASF values and > principles outside of it by the ASF individuals - displaying it in > LinkedIn/Twitter, other social media should be perfectly fine IMHO and > might spark a number of discussions. > > Using it during internal discussion in your project on the devlist or any > other discussion media for the things related to your project - NOT fine. > > J, > > > > > > > -- > > Johan > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > > > > > > -- > +48 660 796 129 > -- Thank you, Matthew
