On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:59 AM Johan Corveleyn <jcor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 10:47 PM Daniel Ferradal <dferra...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > In my humble opinion, I don't like labels, medals, awards, bands, > > distinctions, badges, ribbons, stars, trophies or anything similar > > that distinguish anyone from any other. As I see it, it's a form of > > manipulation to persuade people to achieve more than they might want > > and may probably lead to people feeling better than others or just the > > opposite, which is worse. > > > > ASF being what it is, all volunteers doing whatever they can or want, > > time, life, family or will permits, but a necessary few that work > > professionally to maintain operation, I don't like the idea of using > > this kind of "corporate encouragement". > > > > I understand the idea behind this is probably well meant, but that > > does not make me like it anyway. > > +1, not a fan of such badges either. > > In our often volunteer-driven projects it's already difficult, IMHO, > to make a new PMC member feel empowered just as much as the old-timer > that's been around for 20 years, perhaps even founded the project. In > my experience, such badges often scare away new people (who might be > very talented / have great, fresh ideas), if they get the feeling that > it's an old-guru-club. Especially if during discussions some people's > arguments are given more weight, just because they wear a badge. > But isn't the whole ASF built around an individual merit and 'badges' ? Commiter, Project PMC, ASF member, ASF PMC status is all about "earned authority" and badges. By definition when you are a new person in any ASF project, you have no rights whatsoever, you have to earn it by what you say and do. And you get to wear a "badge" of a committer and then PMC when you earn it. Having a "PMC member of project A" or "Commiter in project B" badge, grants you certain rights. And it is public information already. And to be honest all that is actually subjective - a decision by a group of people. All the rules of ASF try to make it more "objective" - by discussion, voting and such but still it's a meritocracy, no matter if you like it or not. In this sense, having X commits, N presentations or being involved for Y years is a very-objective metric, which everyone can validate easily and has exactly the meaning you yourself put to it by your own judgment - no more, no less. And it's something to be proud of by the one wearing the badge, not to take advantage of it. At least that's what I see it is. Also it has a nice "aspirational" part to it. It would be nice to see other ASF members who made 100 commits last year and had 3 talks at the ApacheCon. This is a true, real engagement you show. And yeah. I value people who - despite all their daily obligation - find their time to contribute to the community. This makes me value them more as people, but this does not change the value they bring to a "merit" when there is a project discussion. I think it's what I really love in the ASF that it's ok to wear a badge, but also it's OK to not pay attention to it by others. I often don't. And I actually think NOT paying attention to someone's badge when you discuss the merit is a value on its own. But there is also a difference when it comes to decision making (actual voting) rather than discussions. There "badges" matter and for a good reason - because with powers to decide, comes also responsibility. So it's good to know those `badges` when decisions are made. I think rather than liking/unliking we should think where, when and how such badges should be used. - Should I "flash" "badge of committer" when I am taking part in a discussion in a project ? Surely not. The argument "I wear a badge, so my words are more important" is a very bad idea, and If I see it, the value of such a person's opinion (not the person) tanks immediately in the discussion in my eyes. - Should I "flash" the "badge of committer" when we are voting on an important subject for the project and my voice is "binding". Yes. Certainly. This is why the "badge of being a committer" is for. We are all doing so by stating (+1/-1 binding) in the discussion. - Should I "flash the "badge of 2 years committer and PMC member of a project" I was contributing to for 2 years and made 100s commits to it when I am publicly speaking about it - hell yeah. I am proud of what I've been doing, I love to promote my project and I think it's great to share the experience with others - such a badge helps to stand out from the crowd of people who did not make such a commitment. - SHould I "flash the badge of an ASF member" when I am promoting the values of ASF, the ASF way when publicly speaking - hell yeah. Likely I got invited because I - at least to some extent - understood and followed the values and principles of ASF. And having a common, public way of sharing such "badges" to the public is a great idea. It might be a really nice tool to promote ASF values and principles outside of it by the ASF individuals - displaying it in LinkedIn/Twitter, other social media should be perfectly fine IMHO and might spark a number of discussions. Using it during internal discussion in your project on the devlist or any other discussion media for the things related to your project - NOT fine. J, > > -- > Johan > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > > -- +48 660 796 129
