> On Sep 15, 2019, at 9:02 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I for one appreciate Rob's efforts and would also be happy to turn the task
> over to Services with our input which IMO is just our project name "Apache
> Commons".
>
Sounds good to me.
> Gary
>
>> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 8:39 PM Rob Tompkins <chtom...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Pardon to cause a stir here, but that was just a mock-up that I sent to
>> “Central Services” as an idea from which to work. I had no intentions of
>> suggesting that we vote on it or even use is as I think that there are
>> spacing and font issues with it. I thought that my email with the mock-up
>> made it clear that it was a rough pass.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>> On Sep 15, 2019, at 7:25 PM, Gilles Sadowski <gillese...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Le dim. 15 sept. 2019 à 23:40, sebb <seb...@gmail.com <mailto:
>> seb...@gmail.com>> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Surely it would be better to use the JIRA
>>>>
>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86 <
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86>
>>>
>>> I don't get it: We agreed to let "Central Services" provide the logo
>>> and now we are again presenting homegrown ones...
>>> Do we really want to "bikeshed" (again) about unfinished and/or
>>> unpolished products?
>>>
>>> The initial/original thread mentioned previously was supposed to
>>> be the place were we define requirements/wishes (in words, or
>>> ASCII graphics to convey the general idea).
>>> I provided suggestions (in that other thread); please comment.
>>>
>>> Gilles
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 at 21:13, Gilles Sadowski <gillese...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Could we please use *one* (and the original) thread to collect ideas?
>>>>>
>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>
>>>>> Le dim. 15 sept. 2019 à 19:47, Rob Tompkins <chtom...@gmail.com> a
>> écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sep 15, 2019, at 8:10 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do not think we need "Project", we're not a 70s progrock band ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like the Alan Parsons Project, a little :-P
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 07:45 Rob Tompkins <chtom...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Here’s a potential logo that I mocked up and sent to Kenneth. Does
>> anyone have any opinions on this? I felt like something similar to the one
>> that Sally sent across for the HTTP project seemed reasonable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, I think that it’s not exactly adherent to the style guide and
>> that Kenneth plans on putting something together that’s analogous and
>> adhere’s to the style guide.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thoughts? -Rob
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 3:17 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The KISS solution would be to get "Central" to produce not just
>> the Commons
>>>>>>>>> logo but one for each component and be done. The even simpler path
>> is to
>>>>>>>>> forgo component specific logos, especially since Commons is just
>> one Apache
>>>>>>>>> project. I like simpler...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 15:08 Rob Tompkins <chtom...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <
>> gillese...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <s...@apache.org> a
>> écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Gilles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central
>> Services. I was
>>>>>>>>>> talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy
>> to
>>>>>>>>>> explore options for a future design.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week.
>> Having
>>>>>>>>>> worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road
>> show
>>>>>>>>>> earlier this year, I could sit down with her and see if we can get
>>>>>>>>>> something analogous to what we have in place currently that
>> satisfies
>>>>>>>>>> everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the
>>>>>>>>>> feather". It's important that if we choose to use an
>> ASF-feather-inspired
>>>>>>>>>> motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the
>> original.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It was certainly not the intention.
>>>>>>>>>>> It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
>>>>>>>>>>> to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
>>>>>>>>>>> reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the
>> feather,
>>>>>>>>>> among other adjustments.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
>>>>>>>>>>> than a rotation. ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>> [But if they are allowed, then fine.]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to
>> working
>>>>>>>>>> with you.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
>>>>>>>>>>> converge on a few ideas to help with the design.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sally
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - - -
>>>>>>>>>>>> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
>>>>>>>>>>>> Vice President Sponsor Relations
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Apache Software Foundation
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | s...@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <s...@apache.org>
>> a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the
>> feather
>>>>>>>>>> where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a
>> bit of a
>>>>>>>>>> problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server
>> logo:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - new logo
>>>>>>>>>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So is the choice between
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the
>> look of
>>>>>>>>>> the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive
>> footprint
>>>>>>>>>> across so many projects.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To that end, may I ask a favor?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to
>> considering
>>>>>>>>>> having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF
>> Marketing &
>>>>>>>>>> Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Help from experts is welcome.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to
>> change the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the
>>>>>>>>>> discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to
>> meet your
>>>>>>>>>> needs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (feather included, if applicable)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * No URL
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in "Commons" [4]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking
>> the
>>>>>>>>>> timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient
>> for us to
>>>>>>>>>> have a few proposals developed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If this works for you, we can get started this week.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fine with me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo
>> with the
>>>>>>>>>> intention of revisiting and updating in future.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now is a good time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least
>> the few
>>>>>>>>>>>>> who voiced their opinion).[5] And, IMHO, the alternatives are
>> failing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warm regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you very much for the offer,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [2] Discussion thread:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's
>> JIRA
>>>>>>>>>> pages:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather
>> using
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to
>> provide
>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea and a few examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | s...@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the result in order to compose its own logo.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Case in point is here:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (where the feather has been rotated).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published
>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gilles Sadowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>>>>>
>> https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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