I'm not sure I would say that not moving the feature-freeze date is a penalty, but it does have consequences for customers...as does the fact that we miss our release deadlines consistently.
If you are working on a feature that hasn't been advertised to your customers via a roadmap or some other mechanism, then it doesn't really matter, I suppose, if you release that feature today or, say, four months from now when the next release comes out. However, many of us work under the direction of a roadmap that has been made visible to our customers. In such an environment, these customers do expect when you tell them feature X will be out in, say, 4.3 that it does, in fact, come out in 4.3 and not four months later in 4.4. I just wanted to point this out because I've seen in several e-mails over the past year the following idea: If a feature doesn't make it into this release, no big deal - it can be put in the next release. While technically true, this does not take into consideration customer expectations around feature-release dates. Personally, I'd rather push a feature-freeze date back by a couple weeks than make customers (of mine or anyone else's) wait another 1/3 of a year or more for the feature(s) in question. At some point, however, we need to conduct a retrospective to uncover why we are not hitting our deadlines. Perhaps the deadlines are too tight? Perhaps there is a process issue missing (or in place) that prevents us from doing so? etc. Thanks! On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 8:21 PM, John Kinsella <j...@stratosec.co> wrote: > I don't see not moving the freeze date as a penalty. If a feature doesn't > make the current deadline, it moves to the next release, which is still a > few months away. For significant issues, it's not uncommon for us to allow > them in late. > > What we have a stronger need for than shifting a date, by several orders > of magnitude, is understanding why the RC process took so long and what we > can do in the future to make that not so painful. > > For the record I'm +0 on moving the feature freeze date. > > John > > On Feb 26, 2014, at 7:10 PM, Ram Ganesh <ram.gan...@citrix.com> wrote: > > > I share it too. Many developers in the community went out of their way > to get a cleaner RC and thereby impacting their feature development > efforts. We shouldn't be penalizing them with this 2 week's feature freeze > schedule > > > > Thanks, > > RamG > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Animesh Chaturvedi [mailto:animesh.chaturv...@citrix.com] > >> Sent: 27 February 2014 03:00 > >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org > >> Subject: RE: 4.4 Feature Freeze > >> > >> Mike I share your opinion most of us have been pretty much on 4.3 until > >> now, and pushing out the release seems reasonable. As I called out in > earlier > >> mail the feature proposal date was not called out for 4.4 and as such > giving > >> little extra room seems reasonable. > >> > >> Animesh > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com] > >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 7:29 AM > >>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org > >>> Subject: Re: 4.4 Feature Freeze > >>> > >>> I think we're having this discussion after every release because we're > >>> beginning to realize that a four-month release cycle has not been very > >>> realistic for us yet. > >>> > >>> The main issue I encounter is our month-long RC cycle where I spend a > >>> bunch of time validating the RC and (during that timeframe) less time > >>> developing for the next release as I had initially planned. > >>> > >>> Perhaps instead of extending the cycle we could consider ways to > >>> actually meet the schedule on a consistent basis. That would be fine, > as > >> well. > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 8:04 AM, Hugo Trippaers <h...@trippaers.nl> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> -1 on postponing the feature freeze. We are having this discussion > >>>> after every release, however we agreed to do a 4 month cycle so > >>>> let's stick > >>> to it. > >>>> > >>>> If there are important features that are currently being developed > >>>> but might not make this cut-off date we should discuss that > >>>> separately, but as a point of principle lets stick to the release > schedule as > >> proposed. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Cheers, > >>>> > >>>> Hugo > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 26 feb. 2014, at 15:23, Tracy Phillips > >>>> <tracy.phill...@weberize.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> +1 to Daan. > >>>>> > >>>>> Tracy Phillips > >>>>> Weberize, Inc. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Daan Hoogland > >>>>> <daan.hoogl...@gmail.com > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> -1 for postponing the feature freeze. It will amount to more > >>>>>> features in the release. I'd rather shorten the cycle and do more > >>>>>> releases then to pack more bugs in a single go. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:13 PM, Guo Star <ghxand...@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>>>>> +1 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> 2014-02-26 20:01 GMT+08:00 Abhinandan Prateek < > >>>>>> abhinandan.prat...@citrix.com > >>>>>>>> : > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> +1 for 4.4 feature freeze on 3/28. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 26/02/14 10:01 am, "Sateesh Chodapuneedi" > >>>>>>>> <sateesh.chodapune...@citrix.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com] > >>>>>>>>>> Sent: 26 February 2014 04:46 > >>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: 4.4 Feature Freeze > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I think this is a good idea, Animesh (to push out feature > >>>>>>>>>> freeze to 3/28). > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> +1 to move 4.4 feature freeze date to 3/28. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>> Sateesh > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I also agree we should discuss 4+ month development cycles > >> again. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 3:43 PM, Animesh Chaturvedi < > >>>>>>>>>> animesh.chaturv...@citrix.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I will start a separate discussion on 4 month cycle or > >>>>>>>>>>> longer, but wanted to call out one more important date. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> We have a last day for feature proposal date which is > >>>>>>>>>>> typically a month before feature freeze date. If following > >>>>>>>>>>> 4.3 schedule + 4 > >>>>>> month > >>>>>>>>>>> it would have been 2/14 and we are already past that. Since > >>>>>>>>>>> it was > >>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>>>> announced for > >>>>>>>>>>> 4.4 release yet my suggestion would be to keep feature > >>>>>>>>>>> proposal > >>>>>> open > >>>>>>>>>>> for another week and push all the dates out by 2 weeks to > >>>>>>>>>>> give > >>>>>> folks > >>>>>>>>>>> opportunity to finish up their features for new proposals > >>>>>>>>>>> that are > >>>>>> yet > >>>>>>>>>>> to come out. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> To be clear that would mean pushing out feature freeze to > >>>>>>>>>>> 3/28 from > >>>>>>>>>>> 3/14 and all the other dates likewise. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>>>>>>> Animesh > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Animesh Chaturvedi > >>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:animesh.chaturv...@citrix.com] > >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 1:05 PM > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: 4.4 Feature Freeze > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> With the experience of 4.2 and 4.3 I think we should > >>>>>>>>>>>> discuss if > >>>>>> we > >>>>>>>>>>>> can realistically achieve 4 month cycle our RCs take 2 > >>>>>>>>>>>> months. I > >>>>>> was > >>>>>>>>>>>> going to open up the discussion after 4.3 is shipped though. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Trippie [mailto:trip...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Hugo > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Trippaers > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 8:50 AM > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <dev@cloudstack.apache.org> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: 4.4 Feature Freeze > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> If we stick to our 4 month release schedule the feature > >>>>>>>>>>>>> freeze > >>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>>>> four months after the feature freeze of 4.3. The feature > >>>>>> freeze of > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4.3 was > >>>>>>>>>>> 8 Nov > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2013. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> So the proposed release schedule for 4.4 would look like > >>>>>>>>>>>>> this (dates slightly modified to take efficiency and RM's > >>>>>>>>>>>>> personal > >>>>>> life > >>>>>>>>>>>>> into > >>>>>>>>>>> account ;-) ): > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Feature Freeze: March 14, 2014 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Testing/Bug Fixes: March 15, 2014 till April > >>>>>> 18, > >>>>>>>>>> 2014 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (direct access for committers) > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Stability Fixes only: April 19, 2014 > till > >>>>>>>>>>> release (cherry picks > >>>>>>>>>>>>> by RM only) > >>>>>>>>>>>>> First RC: May 9, 2014 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Optimistic Release Date: May 19, 2014 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hugo > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25 feb. 2014, at 16:35, Sudha Ponnaganti > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <sudha.ponnaga...@citrix.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am also looking for feature freeze dates for 4.4. Can > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> RM > >>>>>> post > >>>>>>>>>>> those? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Sudha > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Alex Hitchins [mailto:alex.hitch...@shapeblue.com] > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 7:00 AM > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: 4.4 Feature Freeze > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know the 4.3 isn't quite out the door yet, but is there > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a timetable > >>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere stating when the feature freeze for 4.4 will be? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to submit a feature and want to ensure that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's prepared in > >>>>>>>>>>>>> time. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex Hitchins > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VP Software Engineering > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> D: +44 1892 523 587 | S: +44 20 3603 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0540<tel:+442036030540> > >>>>>> | > >>>>>>>>>> M: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> +44<tel:+447968161581> 7788 423 969 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ShapeBlue Ltd, 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, London, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> WC2N > >>>>>> 4HS > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Need Enterprise Grade Support for Apache CloudStack? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our CloudStack Infrastructure > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Support<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack- > >>>>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure-support/> offers the best 24/7 SLA for > >>>>>> CloudStack > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Environments. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache CloudStack Bootcamp training courses > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> **NEW!** CloudStack 4.2.1 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> training<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack- > >>>>>>>>>>>>> training/> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 18th-19th February 2014, Brazil. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Classroom<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17th-23rd March 2014, Region A. Instructor led, On- > >>>>>>>>>>>>> line<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 24th-28th March 2014, Region B. Instructor led, On- > >>>>>>>>>>>>> line<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 16th-20th June 2014, Region A. Instructor led, On- > >>>>>>>>>>>>> line<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 23rd-27th June 2014, Region B. Instructor led, On- > >>>>>>>>>>>>> line<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This email and any attachments to it may be confidential > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>> are > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended > >>>>>>>>>>>>> solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. > >>>>>> Any > >>>>>>>>>>>>> views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>> do > >>>>>>>>>>>>> not necessarily represent those of Shape Blue Ltd or > >>>>>>>>>>>>> related companies. If you are not the intended recipient > >>>>>>>>>>>>> of this email, you must neither take any action based upon > >>>>>>>>>>>>> its contents, nor > >>>>>> copy > >>>>>>>>>>>>> or show it to anyone. Please contact the sender if you > >>>>>>>>>>>>> believe > >>>>>> you > >>>>>>>>>>>>> have received this email in error. Shape Blue Ltd is a > >>>>>>>>>>>>> company incorporated in England & Wales. ShapeBlue > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Services India LLP > >>>>>> is a > >>>>>>>>>>>>> company incorporated in India and is operated under > >>>>>>>>>>>>> license > >>>>>> from > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Shape Blue Ltd. Shape Blue Brasil Consultoria Ltda is a > >>>>>>>>>>>>> company incorporated in Brasil and is operated under > >>>>>>>>>>>>> license from Shape Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue is > >>>>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>>> registered trademark. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>> *Mike Tutkowski* > >>>>>>>>>> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.* > >>>>>>>>>> e: mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com > >>>>>>>>>> o: 303.746.7302 > >>>>>>>>>> Advancing the way the world uses the > >>>>>>>>>> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play> > >>>>>>>>>> *(tm)* > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Daan > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> *Mike Tutkowski* > >>> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.* > >>> e: mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com > >>> o: 303.746.7302 > >>> Advancing the way the world uses the > >>> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play> > >>> *(tm)* > > Stratosec - Compliance as a Service > o: 415.315.9385 > @johnlkinsella > > -- *Mike Tutkowski* *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.* e: mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com o: 303.746.7302 Advancing the way the world uses the cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play> *(tm)*
