Prepositional...
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 26, 2020, at 12:20 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
> Louisiana surprised me. Not many things do they excel in. Propositional
> ending intentional...
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>> On Apr 26, 2020, at 11:44 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>
>> Utah is up there, but not in the lead. Rhode Island is #1 in testing,
>> followed (in order) by New York, Massachusetts, Louisiana, then Utah.
>>
>>
>>
>> <ognofdgmnbglmckj.png>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>> On 4/26/2020 9:57 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>> Why is utah so for ahead on the testing? Is it something to do with
>>> Mormonism and the teamwork thing or unrelated?
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 11:16 AM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>>> Because 100% of deaths in Utah are tested for Coronavirus...
>>>>
>>>> From: Robert
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2020 10:07 AM
>>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Dang, not normal
>>>>
>>>> There was just an interesting article written that lamented how inaccurate
>>>> coroners have been on cause of death for the whole existence of
>>>> coroners... Like 50% accurate. Why would they get better now?
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/26/20 8:23 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>>> There is so much we don't know for a number of frustrating reasons. One
>>>>> is the asymptomatic infection problem, and how long that lasts. The other
>>>>> is that the symptoms are "similar" to the flu, and sometimes other
>>>>> things. One headline that caught my attention this morning is that Santa
>>>>> Clara County had 29 people listed as "dying of flu-like symptoms", and 9
>>>>> (roughly 1/3) have been reclassified as COVID-19 after they tested for
>>>>> the virus.
>>>>>
>>>>> I snipped this from the article, and it pretty well sums up the situation
>>>>> at present:
>>>>>
>>>>> “We’ll never, ever know how many people contracted the coronavirus in San
>>>>> Clara County or California or the U.S. That ship has sailed. Even
>>>>> self-reporting would be inherently inaccurate or impossible,” Santa Clara
>>>>> County Supervisor Dave Cortese said. “Our only hope of getting a decent
>>>>> history of it is by counting the dead. I’m really disappointed that
>>>>> coroners all over the country haven’t done a better job. They’ve been
>>>>> signing death certificates as strokes or heart attacks or natural causes.”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bp
>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/26/2020 8:12 AM, Robert wrote:
>>>>>> Does it bug anyone else that this "doctor" says that we aren't treating
>>>>>> this like other epidemics and quarantining the sick, when Covid-19 IS
>>>>>> NOT LIKE OTHER epidemics. It has a 2-10 day period of being contagious
>>>>>> _without_ symptoms.
>>>>>> I was agreeing with him up until that point.
>>>>>> Then he goes into the NY numbers and he does the same extrapolation
>>>>>> of the testing vs sick numbers that many have done before ( including
>>>>>> myself ) which is BAD Science. It's not a good test case to
>>>>>> extrapolate to the gen pop from, because the testing has not been
>>>>>> randomly done across gen pop! The people who get tested typically are
>>>>>> those who exhibit symptoms. This may under guess the number who have
>>>>>> gotten it OR over guess, but it's still NOT science.
>>>>>> He also neglects the effect of the quarantine actions on the
>>>>>> results of the number of cases in his region. Gee wilikers I want to
>>>>>> hear the same information done from actual scientific method testing.
>>>>>> Then he says "hundreds of thousands of deaths which were inaccurate"...
>>>>>> Um we are over 54K deaths and the curve ISN'T going down. It seems to
>>>>>> have leveled off but is still going strong. In basically 1.5 months.
>>>>>> We are 1/4+ the way to the model with social distancing. Without
>>>>>> social distancing we could start making a gain on the other models.
>>>>>> I think this is yet another example of someone, this time a doctor, who
>>>>>> looks at the results of successful social distancing and says it's
>>>>>> overreaction. And then he talks about 0.1% of death and then 92%
>>>>>> recovery. Um doesn't that sound like 8% who DON'T recover? And if
>>>>>> you throw 8% at the hospitals of the population in a much shorter time
>>>>>> from not social distancing, what happens to the hospitals? Sorry but
>>>>>> this is an "agenda" again...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IT'S NOT LIKE THE FLU!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/26/20 7:34 AM, James Howard wrote:
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfLVxx_lBLU&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2Z1n4E0sxMyXc82UZxrXNKJqf9oaC_kF53Be6NZaVPnuP8jwTDKxk5w4g
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2020 8:13 AM
>>>>>>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Dang, not normal
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Steve, the usual solution is for nervous dwelling beings to engage in
>>>>>>> “spring cleaning”, to the annoyance of all other dwelling beings.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.gocomics.com/breaking-cat-news/2020/04/26
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Steve Jones
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2020 12:27 AM
>>>>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Dang, not normal
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just reread that and am going to have to call a lent. Sorry
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 12:19 AM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's another thing that really needs kicked to the curb, political
>>>>>>> correctness. This is serious business, and housewives get nervous. A
>>>>>>> nervous housewife can make a whole lot of bad decisions. Those bad
>>>>>>> decisions have real world consequenses that dont care about being
>>>>>>> politically correct. You can say house person if you want. Well maybe
>>>>>>> being, since son is in person, indicating Male, if a gender actually
>>>>>>> exists. And I guess house indicates some level of financial status.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would you feel better about "dwelling being".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Keeping dwelling beings occupied and less nervous" does that make you
>>>>>>> feel better?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fyi, that's specifically the reason I have my wife, who is suffering
>>>>>>> severe post partum depression in the middle of the end of the world,
>>>>>>> looking for templates on making masks, so i dont come home to the real
>>>>>>> world consequense of my babies drown in the bathtub. I'm not quite sure
>>>>>>> if her doing that would be PC or not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 11:56 PM Bruce Robertson <br...@pooh.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> “keeping housewives occupied and less nervous”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Really? You’re aware this is 2020, right?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 8:18 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You asked
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What was recomended by the White House. Regional opening with result
>>>>>>> driven response. (Without rhetoric, example, my county TRIPLED its
>>>>>>> cases over the weekend. It went from 1 to 3, the 2 new ones are
>>>>>>> related, so the increase is pretty irrelevant.) Tracing is more
>>>>>>> important than testing. That's just a matter of fact, testing is a
>>>>>>> slice in time, you can be infected, and test negative if you were
>>>>>>> recently infected, you can get infected at a test site. You can test
>>>>>>> positive from an environmental exposure without having actually caught
>>>>>>> it. It's like MRSA of the nairs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Once identified, the tracing leads back to likely hotspots. I'd
>>>>>>> personally put the bulk of the funding into tracing. Use every bit of
>>>>>>> data volunteered. Particularly request the tracking data from mobile
>>>>>>> devices. If its volunteered, you have a map. If they dont, well, you
>>>>>>> work with what you have.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Testing" is a tool of politics. The only way to effectively test would
>>>>>>> be real time monitoring. Which A. Doesnt exist and B. Wouldn't be
>>>>>>> feasible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The governors each now have in their possession the location of every
>>>>>>> single test processing facility in the nation. So what little relevance
>>>>>>> testing actually plays in management is their responsibility to
>>>>>>> delegate coordination. So it's a moot issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any location exposed in tracing gets a mandatory scrub scrub (to be
>>>>>>> honest, I dont understand any public venue that wouldn't be surface
>>>>>>> decontaminating once ever 24 hours minimum anyway, there's no shortage
>>>>>>> of killitol level disinfectants)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the mandatory face covering is nonsense. If it were mandatory
>>>>>>> rated filtration masks that would be different.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But there isnt a production capacity for that on the entire planet. But
>>>>>>> since it makes people feel like they're doing something, I'm all for
>>>>>>> it. Placebo is actually a powerful medication for much of what ails
>>>>>>> society. Plus the homemade masks are keeping housewives occupied and
>>>>>>> less nervous. That actually matters.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Occasionally a tracing may require a mandatory compensated closure.
>>>>>>> Example being a county here in illinois that has a processor who has
>>>>>>> over 20 employees infected, they're still operational. There is
>>>>>>> autonomy and constitutional rights, and then there is stupidity and a
>>>>>>> true public health risk. That falls under the latter and should be
>>>>>>> closed pending decontamination.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A forcible closure, from a document able and legitimate public health
>>>>>>> risk should require medical screening of all staff/administration prior
>>>>>>> to resuming activities. There is no shortage of available healthcare
>>>>>>> practitioners right now, so depts of public health can contract that .
>>>>>>> Once again, the focus should be on tracing. Heavily funded tracing.
>>>>>>> "Patient zero" in the above mentioned case has probably long since
>>>>>>> recovered. Tracing is where they are identified, as theyll test
>>>>>>> negative now. Cases like this are where antibody testing should be
>>>>>>> prioritized, assuming there is consent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tracing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The same applies to public venues. If tracing identifies probable
>>>>>>> contamination, the venue scrubs. Applicable staff are cleared, tracing,
>>>>>>> tracing tracing. Video surveillance has a huge role where it is
>>>>>>> voluntarily submitted. Voluntarily being key and subjective, since it
>>>>>>> will be a whole lot quicker to clear a location of all tracing
>>>>>>> resources are made readily available. Call it extortion if you want, it
>>>>>>> is what it is, and it is a tool.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Metrics must be clearly defined. If two people happenned to have been
>>>>>>> in the same place, it doesnt need to necessarily be shut down. But the
>>>>>>> threshold must be clearly defined. We have very little that is clearly
>>>>>>> defined. That has a whole lot to do with the defiance. Selling seeds
>>>>>>> being a prime example, at no point did illinois shut that down, yet
>>>>>>> places cordoned them off and facebook images went nuts. This is
>>>>>>> literally the same thing that cause the rapid spread in the US, images
>>>>>>> of empty shelves. Many of the people protesting still dont know that
>>>>>>> nurseries and greenhouses were specifically deemed essential last week,
>>>>>>> but that's why they're there. Clearly define everything, on the state
>>>>>>> and county websites. Accurate information is critical. That and tracing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Define regional thresholds for stages of opening. If a region declines,
>>>>>>> shut it down. If a region does well, progress the stages. Exactly as
>>>>>>> the feds recommend.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Define and justify every single essential and non essential industry.
>>>>>>> With a mandatory state clarification within 24 hours of a designation
>>>>>>> request. Justify being key. And publicly accessible designations. This
>>>>>>> would be fluid and ongoing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Leisure activities need designations. Nuclear family needs
>>>>>>> clarification. As it reads, I cant take my family fishing in illinois
>>>>>>> because the designated limit is 2. This will get police in situations
>>>>>>> with bad outcomes because nobody bothered to clarify.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If a region's medical resources are verifiably and documented to be
>>>>>>> taxed to a predefined and clearly defined level, then ease back on the
>>>>>>> stages, all the way to lockdown if need be. But media reports and
>>>>>>> public opinion arent the metrics. The staffing levels and documented
>>>>>>> patient loads define that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can continue
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 9:01 PM Chuck Macenski <ch...@macenski.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would you please articulate specifically "what is right" in this
>>>>>>> situation? I am asking for your non-political opinion of the most
>>>>>>> constructive way forward.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 8:24 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I sit back and watch as people contradict their own statements. "Its
>>>>>>> going to be here like this for years" "tests are growing, as is the
>>>>>>> number" "it's been here longer than we think" "it hasn't peaked because
>>>>>>> muh testing" "it's going to be worse in fall" "mitigation has had a
>>>>>>> major impact"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The best is regarding the medication mien fuehrer liked. "Its only
>>>>>>> anecdotal" "a tiny group had a negative outcome, thisnis the gold
>>>>>>> standard and this drug must be banned"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I live in a state where our governor is in a pissing contest with the
>>>>>>> White House, but doing pretty much what the White House recommends,
>>>>>>> with the exception of looking at things by region. We only have two
>>>>>>> regions, chicago, and people who voted for the current president at
>>>>>>> 1600. So the whole of downstate will be punished for not voting the
>>>>>>> right way. When asked about the data, for the "science" behind this, we
>>>>>>> were told the state doesnt own the data, so we cant see it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm part of a foster parent group. One of the fosters is utterly
>>>>>>> destroyed right now. Her prior ward, that she stayed in contact with
>>>>>>> died 3 days ago at 15. He had returned home, but went back into the
>>>>>>> system during this (our state, in its infinite wisdom has effectively
>>>>>>> shut down the foster support system, non essential and all) he couldn't
>>>>>>> come back to her because she is at capacity. He had cancer and was in a
>>>>>>> drug trial. He had been thriving. The governors orders didnt allow for
>>>>>>> him to get access to the trial resources, so he lost his trial spot, as
>>>>>>> is the nature of trials. There were no resources available to get him
>>>>>>> into a linear treatment. 3 days ago he succumbed to the complication.
>>>>>>> While anecdotal, this is exactly what the cure being worse than the
>>>>>>> disease looks like. Granted, the speed at which he declined from
>>>>>>> thriving to dead indicates underlying issues, the chicago emperors
>>>>>>> orders made certain there were no resources. Right now, thanks to the
>>>>>>> emperors orders, there are approximately zero resources available to
>>>>>>> the foster families. Anticipate a whole lot of negative outcomes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Point is, everybody is more concerned about proving how wrong their
>>>>>>> political enemy is, that nobody is even actually looking for what is
>>>>>>> right.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thankfully mother nature doesnt care and this will, like all ailments
>>>>>>> of proximity, diminish in the next week or so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:48 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just listened (in part) to a discussion about COVID-19 as it regards
>>>>>>> China/US relations. It is a discussion between Dubner, Michèle Flournoy
>>>>>>> ( former undersecretary of defense and co-founder of strategic-advisory
>>>>>>> firm WestExec.), and Michael Auslin (historian at Stanford University’s
>>>>>>> Hoover Institution).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Within the discussion Auslin asserts that the death toll within Wuhan
>>>>>>> alone was between 45 and 47 thousand; at least 10X what they have
>>>>>>> reported through official channels. He gets his data through
>>>>>>> croudsourcing crematoria activity and the number of people picking up
>>>>>>> urns of deceased family members.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you don't have time to listen to this, it is at least worth a read
>>>>>>> of the transcript.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://freakonomics.com/podcast/covid-19-china/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> bp
>>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/25/2020 3:11 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This virus doesn't care if you are a Republican, a Democrat, an
>>>>>>> Independent, agnostic, religious or an atheist...if it gets you it
>>>>>>> might kill you...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stay smart, listen to doctors and scientists....not ineptus maximus
>>>>>>> politicians.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 12:45 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As we test more, we are undoubtedly going to find more cases that were
>>>>>>> previously going undetected (asymptomatic infection). This is a long
>>>>>>> way from over. The other thing we have not come to grips with is the
>>>>>>> uneven spread/mitigation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There was an interesting graphic for the state of California showing
>>>>>>> the state as a whole versus just the Bay Area (Mercury News this
>>>>>>> morning). The 7 counties around the bay instituted shelter in place
>>>>>>> very early, and it's beginning to show in the statistics. The Bay Area
>>>>>>> accounts for almost 18% of the entire state population (7 of the 40
>>>>>>> million).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> bp
>>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/25/2020 8:45 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Might be Chebyshev BPF though... hopefully...Bessell.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hopefully not high pass...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>
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