This obviously is not intended as a criticism of Christie BMR, it is a great product. But in my opinion this a primary function that any backup/archive/recovery solution should provide, especially at top-tier application price points.
Again, how hard could it be? Would be a great addition to the Operations Center :) -Rick Adamson 904.783.5264 -----Original Message----- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Tom Alverson Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 6:48 PM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] ISP 81 Discontinued functions From reading about it on their web page, the product gives you a boot disk that other vendors include for free, plus they add scheduling, multiple restores and test restores. Not worth $750 per server. Someone mentioned $500 so maybe that is a volume price but if you have a lot of clients we're talking about millions of dollars to purchase something that should be included. On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Ron Delaware <ron.delaw...@us.ibm.com> wrote: > to piggyback on Michael's statement, it has been IBM's position for > over a decade, to use Christie as its Bare Metal Restore Solution and > to put IBM's programming efforts towards other areas of Tivoli Storage > Manager (TSM), now IBM Spectrum Protect, product. Having worked with > this product for 16+ years now, I believe that it was a good decision. > The Christie product has matured to the point that it is an almost > seamless integration into the IBM Spectrum Protect software as well as > being a stand-alone product as well. I have designed and delivered > solutions where the TSM client was replace with a Christie client, and > the results were amazing and customer expectations and satisfaction were > exceeded. > > Yes there is the additional cost, but the capabilities and > functionality, the ease of use and administration of the solution is worth > the cost. > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Ronald C. Delaware > IBM IT Plus Certified Specialist - Expert IBM Corporation | System Lab > Services IBM Certified Solutions Advisor - Spectrum Storage IBM > Certified Spectrum Scale 4.1 & Spectrum Protect 7.1.3 IBM Certified > Cloud Object Storage (Cleversafe) Open Group IT Certified - Masters > 916-458-5726 (Office) > 925-457-9221 (cell phone) > email: ron.delaw...@us.ibm.com > Storage Services Offerings > > > > > > > > > From: "Ryder, Michael S" <michael_s.ry...@roche.com> > To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU > Date: 12/14/2016 10:35 AM > Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] ISP 81 Discontinued functions > Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU> > > > > Just piping in here to lend support to TBMR - this has come in very > handily, especially for the critical workstations we backup. Pop in > the boot CD, answer a few prompts, and then off it goes, restoring > directly from TSM/SP back to the local harddrive, along with the > functionality to adjust for differing hardware/chipsets and > drive-configuration. > > It is *totally awesome* not having to rely on some hand-scripted > process, and like any backup solution, cheap insurance. > > When one of those critical workstations fails, we can consistently > bring it back to its identical state within 1-2 hours, with only 10-15 > minutes interaction needed on the front and back end of that process. > > Cost of ~$500/client is well worth it, in relation to the total TSM/SP > equation and considering the costs of our downtime. Of course that > has to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. > > Best regards, > > Mike Ryder, x7942 > RMD IT Client Services > > On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 12:15 PM, Rick Adamson > <rickadam...@segrocers.com> > wrote: > > > Whenever I have requested approval for Christie BMR the response was > that > > it was way too expensive. > > > > Every time the debate comes up on TSM/SP versus other solutions > > someone always targets this shortcoming. It makes it difficult to > > argue TSM/SP > as a > > world-class enterprise solution when your options to perform a bare > metal > > recovery are making a sizable purchase from a third-party, or work > > thru > an > > unnecessarily complicated process. > > > > Seeing as there's a defined process for the offline SS recovery, how > > difficult would it be for IBM to automate the function, have it > > prompt > for > > drivers, and add the creation to the GUI/CLI ?? > > > > Epic fail .... > > > > -Rick Adamson > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU] On > > Behalf Of Tom Alverson > > Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 10:03 AM > > To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU > > Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] ISP 81 Discontinued functions > > > > It looks like that product just gives you the features that are > > automatically included in the Symantec boot recovery disk. > > > > On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 9:39 AM, Del Hoobler <hoob...@us.ibm.com> wrote: > > > > > For those that do need more, take a look at Cristie TBMR. IBM > > > resells > it: > > > > > > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cristie.co > > > m_re > > > cover_tbmr_&d=DgIFaQ&c=AzgFQeXLLKhxSQaoFCm29A&r=eqh5PzQPIsPArLoI_u > > > V1mK > > > vhIpcNP1MsClDPSJjFfxw&m=MaBDnfu3IOl4KU7j66irgUXnzuj2QunRKvAwOKGl57 > > > c&s= YJlfO6xtNBnRSGWsCJCy4UsCvPHpyj734mOlG4yUo-A&e= > > > > > > From their doc: > > > > > > "TBMR allows you to perform a bare machine recovery of your system > > > direct from a TSM backup. Your critical systems are protected from > > > the consequences of physical damage, human error, or system > > > failure. Users can recover their protected servers to any point in > > > time provided by TSM as well as schedule simulated recoveries. > > > TBMR is re-sold globally by IBM and its channel partners as the > > > recommended system recovery > > solution for TSM. > > > It’s currently available for Windows, Linux, Solaris and AIX > > > operating systems." > > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > Del > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU> wrote on > > > 12/14/2016 > > > 02:18:03 AM: > > > > > > > From: Stefan Folkerts <stefan.folke...@gmail.com> > > > > To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU > > > > Date: 12/14/2016 02:18 AM > > > > Subject: Re: ISP 81 Discontinued functions Sent by: "ADSM: Dist > > > > Stor Manager" <ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU> > > > > > > > > I'm going to have to agree on this one from Tom, I also find it > > > > strange that IBM doesn't just offer a recovery disk or at least > > > > a good tool so > > > you > > > > only have to pick the correct B/A client and it will create it > > > > for > you. > > > > > > > > Many of our clients are close to 100% virtualized but we also > > > > have > > > around > > > > 15-20% of our customers that will probably never virtualize for > > > > 100%, > > > they > > > > are running very specialized systems that require 100% of the > > > > CPU in the server or are transferring truly huge amounts of data > > > > that would impact > > > the > > > > other VM's if ran in VMware. So they run on physical hosts and > > > > have to > > > deal > > > > with the PE thing that is kind of hard to get over to be honest. > > > > > > > > But yes, I have made those disks and they work but the procedure > > > > for > > > using > > > > them isn't very simple so you need a windows administrator that > > > > knows > > > his > > > > stuff. Tt's not a fire and forget kind of procedure even if you > > > > have a working disk. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 11:42 PM, Tom Alverson > > > > <tom.alver...@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > The worst part about this is the extremely poor setup IBM has > > > > > for > > > doing an > > > > > offline restore. They give you the instructions to create > > > > > your own > > > boot > > > > > disk. I read it over and could not believe IBM did not have a > > > > > nice pre-made recovery boot disk like Symantec, AVAMAR and > Networker > > do. > > > Are > > > > > there any plans for IBM to do this? Has anyone successfully > > > > > made one > > > of > > > > > these do it yourself recovery disks? > > > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Hans Christian Riksheim < > > > > > bull...@gmail.com > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Del. > > > > > > > > > > > > Why no prior warning? This was news to me until the 8.1 GA. > > > > > > We have > > > > > several > > > > > > environments where BMR is based on online systemstate > > > > > > restore(which > > > works > > > > > > very well) and now these customers say that they are ready > > > > > > to roll > > > out > > > > > > Win2016. Now there is a rush to look at solutions to this > > > > > > sudden > > > problem > > > > > > including testing that cumbersome PE procedure to avoid a > > > > > > time > > > window > > > > > with > > > > > > no tested method for BMR. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hans Chr. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 4:15 PM, Del Hoobler > > > > > > <hoob...@us.ibm.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Hans Chr., > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Microsoft has had this position since 2008, but IBM still > > > > > > > tried to > > > > > > support > > > > > > > it due to customer requests. It led to too many situations > > > > > > > where a > > > > > system > > > > > > > was unstable after a restore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Del > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU> wrote on > > > 12/13/2016 > > > > > > > 06:42:55 AM: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Hans Christian Riksheim <bull...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU > > > > > > > > Date: 12/13/2016 06:43 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: ISP 81 Discontinued functions Sent by: "ADSM: > > > > > > > > Dist Stor Manager" <ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure if I follow. Has Microsoft communicated a > > > > > > > > change > > > in its > > > > > > > > support for systemstate restores or is it just IBMs > > > > > > > > decision to > > > not > > > > > > > bother > > > > > > > > with it anymore? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hans Chr. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 9:08 PM, Del Hoobler > > > <hoob...@us.ibm.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Martin, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's true IBM Spectrum Protect did support online > > > > > > > > > system state > > > > > > > restores > > > > > > > > > before, but it is against Microsoft's best practices > > > > > > > > > to > > > support it. > > > > > > > IBM > > > > > > > > > Spectrum Protect 8.1 is more strictly enforcing the > > > > > > > > > documented > > > best > > > > > > > > > practices from Microsoft for system state restores. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IBM did not drop the API support for LoP BE > > > > > > > > > specifically so > > > that > > > > > Data > > > > > > > > > Protection for SAP HANA on Power BE continues to be > > supported. > > > > > > > However, > > > > > > > > > IBM's strategic direction is LoP LE ( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.i > > > > > > > bm.c > > > > > > > om_developerworks_library_l-2D&d=DgIFaQ&c=AzgFQeXLLKhxSQao > > > > > > > FCm2 > > > > > > > 9A&r=eqh5PzQPIsPArLoI_uV1mKvhIpcNP1MsClDPSJjFfxw&m=MaBDnfu > > > > > > > 3IOl > > > > > > > 4KU7j66irgUXnzuj2QunRKvAwOKGl57c&s=uMRfaEDqKy6fzg4yJIcrdvu > > > > > > > O0qI > > > > > > > z5X9ffENrq1xOo54&e= > > > > > > power-little-endian-faq-trs/ > > > > > > > > > ). Both SAP and Data Protection for SAP HANA have LoP > > > > > > > > > LE > > > support on > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > roadmap for 1H17. Your investment in Linux on Power is > > > > > > > > > safe, > > > it is > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > that the software will switch to LE architecture from > > > > > > > > > current > > > BE > > > > > > > > > architecture in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Del > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU> wrote > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > 12/12/2016 > > > > > > > > > 10:18:18 AM: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Martin Janosik <martin.jano...@cz.ibm.com> > > > > > > > > > > To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU > > > > > > > > > > Date: 12/12/2016 10:19 AM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: ISP 81 Discontinued functions Sent by: > > > > > > > > > > "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm also a bit nervous and curoius at the same time > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > discontinued > > > > > > > > > > functions, namely: > > > > > > > > > > Online system state restores - You can no longer > > > > > > > > > > restore the > > > > > system > > > > > > > > > state > > > > > > > > > > on a system that is online. Instead, use the > > > > > > > > > > Automated > > > System > > > > > > > Recovery > > > > > > > > > > (ASR) based recovery method to restore the system > > > > > > > > > > state in > > > > > offline > > > > > > > > > Windows > > > > > > > > > > Preinstallation Environment (PE) mode. > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > The following operating systems are no longer > > > > > > > > > > supported by > > > the > > > > > > > > > > backup-archive client: > > > > > > > > > > Linux on Power Systems™ (big endian). You can still > > > > > > > > > > use the > > > IBM > > > > > > > Spectrum > > > > > > > > > > Protect API on Linux on Power Systems (big endian). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the idea behind "to be competive with x86 > > > > > > > > > > platform > > > and > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > compativility certification for SAP HANA with Linux > > > > > > > > > > on Power > > > > > > > platform > > > > > > > > > (Big > > > > > > > > > > Endian)" (ref. > > > > > > > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A_ > > > > > > > > > > _blo > > > > > > > > > > gs.saphana.com_2015_08_21_announcing-2Dgeneral-2D&d= > > > > > > > > > > DgIF > > > > > > > > > > aQ&c=AzgFQeXLLKhxSQaoFCm29A&r=eqh5PzQPIsPArLoI_uV1mK > > > > > > > > > > vhIp > > > > > > > > > > cNP1MsClDPSJjFfxw&m=MaBDnfu3IOl4KU7j66irgUXnzuj2QunR > > > > > > > > > > KvAw > > > > > > > > > > OKGl57c&s=iba7N6xyykW7Wum3QIOhVl_ncaSMfwy2_VxRw0ane8 > > > > > > > > > > c&e= availability-of-sap-hana-on-ibm-power-systems/ > > > > > > > > > > ) and then 1.5 year later drop support of BAclient > > > > > > > > > > for > OS"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We deployed 10+ big SAP HANA on Power8 instances > > > > > > > > > > last year, > > > and > > > > > now > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > be getting "not supported" for new releases? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M. Janosik > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU> > > > > > > > > > > wrote on > > > > > > 12/09/2016 > > > > > > > > > > 02:45:34 PM: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Chavdar Cholev <chavdar.cho...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU > > > > > > > > > > > Date: 12/09/2016 02:47 PM > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [ADSM-L] ISP 81 Discontinued functions > > > > > > > > > > > Sent > > > > > > > > > > > by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" > > > > > > > > > > > <ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does some one check discontinued functions in new > > > version... > > > > > > > > > > > especially part of no VM backup as standard > > > > > > > > > > > function in BA > > > > > > > client.... > > > > > > > > > > > It is not good at all. TDP for Virtual environment > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > hyper-V > > > > > > > creats > > > > > > > > > > diff > > > > > > > > > > > hdds (.avhdx) > > > > > > > > > > > and my customers will not be happy with this, > > > > > > > > > > > because you > > > have > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > merge > > > > > > > > > > > these file, > > > > > > > > > > > when you need to expand .vhdx disk for example .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :( > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > Cahvdar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
