On Dec 2, 11:31 pm, weheh <richard_gor...@verizon.net> wrote:
> In my experience, if you build it they won't come. If you market it,
> they will. Note: marketing != advertising.
I agree with you AND with Thadeus: that is, market what you did, and
how the tool helped; just marketing the tool (selling the "talk"
without the "walk") is what Thadeus points out people dislike - "Why
should I use this?" has to be answered with something more than "it's
cool; you'll like it" -- it has to be answered with a structured:
Here's a problem I had, and here's how I solved it with these tools...
and how those tools helped (or could have helped more).... after all,
that last piece: how things can help more is what gave birth to
web2py, after all...
> The technical community
> doesn't like blatant advertising. The best way to market it is to
> write useful apps, blog about it, answer questions honestly in forae,
> publish lots of documentation so that people can self educate, make
> sure the web2py site is well organized and is carefully SEO'd, and
> make general use of guerilla marketing techniques. For instance,
> frequent the Yahoo! Answers and Google Answers pages for questions
> about ROR and Django. Those are great places to plant the seeds for
> web2py. For instance, how would you answer this question I found on
> Yahoo! Answers? ("Which is more promising for web development- Ruby/
> RoR or Python/Django?") Catch my drift?
Yes, all of what you say... except for the "guerilla marketing" - why
would you want to? what is your motivation? (Massimo's is clear - he
put work into this, it's his product, his baby, he teaches with it,
and would like to see his students get jobs where they can use it).
The motivation for "agressive" marketing - the questions around that
motivation is one of the things that puts people off, I think.
- Yarko
>
> On Dec 3, 12:17 am, Thadeus Burgess <thade...@thadeusb.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Write about web2py, advertise it!" is what got web2py on spam lists on
> > reddit, and various other sites, is why the majority of django peoples are
> > hostile towards web2py. (note, i said majority not all).
>
> > Keep by the saying
>
> > "If you build it, they will come"
>
> > -Thadeus
>
> > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Yarko Tymciurak <
>
> > resultsinsoftw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 2, 11:00 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> > > > Yarko I disagree. Most of our bug reports about new features being
> > > > tested by users. We use this mailing list not just to provide help
> > > > about stable version but also to debug trunk version and discuss new
> > > > features. We also have attracted a lot of non-python programmers who,
> > > > of course, have questions.
>
> > > So, if I understand, your point is that group activity is a _good_
> > > predictor of tool use.
>
> > > I stand by my position that it is the nail you hit, not the hammer,
> > > which is important - that is, tool group activity is not correlated
> > > with how widely a tool is found to be useful and accepted. In fact,
> > > there can be either no correlation, or negative (inverse) correlation.
>
> > > Then we agree to disagree - who cares about web2py, except in how it
> > > enables people to get things done (it's only purpose, really).
> > > We all agree - certainly I agree - that to get started, it is very
> > > simple. There are areas it excels in from a developer perspective,
> > > and areas it still needs to evolve or restructure.
>
> > > In any case, I am not against web2py - I _am_ against "write about
> > > web2py, advertise it!" --- as that is not important; the work done
> > > with it is.
>
> > > I will guess that on this last point we do not disagree as much as on
> > > the first point you made (about group statistics - website traffic
> > > statistics are much more interesting ;-).
>
> > > Regards,
> > > - Yarko
>
> > > > The traffic (measures by number of users, web site hits, messages
> > > > posted) is important to assess our relative growth. In fact the
> > > > different measures are strongly correlated.
>
> > > > The point is that it cannot be used to compare one project with
> > > > another. For example the number of posts does not only depend on
> > > > usage, it also depends on the project size and kind of usage. A
> > > > project may use a different mechanism than the mailing list for
> > > > testing and bug report. A project may be very simple and not require a
> > > > lot of communication.
>
> > > > Anyway, I posted the data, anybody can interpret that as they please.
> > > > I would prefer if we keep discussion to technical issues.
>
> > > > If people have concrete examples about things we can do to increase
> > > > awareness, I am interested.
>
> > > > Massimo
>
> > > > On Dec 2, 10:41 pm, Yarko Tymciurak <resultsinsoftw...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Dec 2, 10:10 pm, Richard <richar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > monthly post numbers are available here:
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/web2py/about
>
> > > > > To get just HOW MUCH this is irrelevant, take a look athttp://
> > > groups.google.com/group/codereview-discuss/about
>
> > > > > This is the reitveld code review tool written by Guido in Python /
> > > > > Django for GAE - it's what is is used for (among other things) all the
> > > > > activitiy on Chrome (the open source Chromium browser ports to other
> > > > > platforms, including Linux). There are other internal google projects
> > > > > which use this, and it's available for any project on code.google.com.
>
> > > > > November: web2py: 1908; codereview: 5
>
> > > > > I will suggest that the user base and amount of traffic that reitveld
> > > > > app sees is SIGNIFICANTLY greater than ... ok, I'll go out
> > > > > (potentially) on a limb here: ALL web2py apps worldwide saw in
> > > > > November.
>
> > > > > LOTS of questions, bug reports, and need for help in using is not a
> > > > > good sign. LOW user activity, few question (when correlated with high
> > > > > use) --- that is a good sign;
>
> > > > > - Yarko
>
> > > > > > On Dec 3, 1:21 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > I agree but that is difficult to measure.
>
> > > > > > > On Dec 2, 7:59 pm, waTR <r...@devshell.org> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > I think a more valid statistic is # of postings/ month. I would
> > > argue
> > > > > > > > an inactive user is not necessarily a good thing. Not to throw
> > > water
> > > > > > > > on the great news or anything. It is still a positive indicator
> > > that
> > > > > > > > the user numbers are growing. Go web2py!!
>
> > > > > > > > On Dec 2, 3:58 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > yes.
>
> > > > > > > > > On Dec 2, 4:28 pm, DenesL <denes1...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > y-axis: users,
> > > > > > > > > > x-axis: days(?)
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Dec 2, 2:48 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > >https://www.web2py.com/examples/static/users.jpg
>
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