since 'en' is generic that is good.... and since when did color vs colour become that big of an issue ?
If parts of web2py have color, and other parts have colour, then using 'en' is what we need to use, since it is generic. -Thadeus On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Yarko Tymciurak < resultsinsoftw...@gmail.com> wrote: > 'en' is less specific. > > color or colour might be in it (depending on who wrote the string); it is > ambiguous. > Removing ambiguity, so that - if some application appropriately needs to be > picky about spellings, idioms, grammatical subteties, I think is important. > > 'en' is "generic"; > > However, it is also what comes (from web2py?) to the client in the > Content-Language setting (in essence, we are here, within web2py, declaring > for the application writier what the default content-language is, so that it > can be matched with a client "accept-language" --- that is, acceptable > language to serve for the request). > > I do not have a powerful position on this - but am more convinced this > patch should declare only one language (the concept of it declaring in > effect a web2py "content-language" at the program level seems to fit, make > sense, and work for me). > > There is a lot to read on this, > > http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-http-and-lang > > and I would only say that I think if we think in terms of this being about > declaring the web2py level equivalent of "content-language", then it should > be singular. > > - Yarko > > > On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Thadeus Burgess <thade...@thadeusb.com>wrote: > >> Maybe it's just me, but I can read the same sentence in en-us, en-uk, and >> en-gr, and I understand exactly what they mean just the same. Can't it just >> default all to en, and then any new messages that are written get added with >> this in mind? >> >> -Thadeus >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 2:31 PM, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu>wrote: >> >>> >>> I agree with you. Besides most of the current messages have been >>> written by Fran and Jonathan who are both in Europe. How are we to >>> decide what is en-us and what is en-uk? >>> >>> On Nov 24, 2:28 pm, Thadeus Burgess <thade...@thadeusb.com> wrote: >>> > new install on ubuntu is [en-us, en]. >>> > >>> > I think it should just default to 'en', if you want uk english or us >>> > english, then these are different languages, and should be forced. >>> > >>> > -Thadeus >>> > >>> > On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Yarko Tymciurak < >>> > >>> > resultsinsoftw...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > > On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Thadeus Burgess < >>> thade...@thadeusb.com>wrote: >>> > >>> > >> Why can't it just be 'en'? >>> > >>> > > It probably could.... I just checked the request environment in a >>> "new >>> > > install" browser I've never used ("Konquerer on Ubuntu) and web2py is >>> > > picking up >>> > > http_accept_language=['en-US', 'en'] >>> > >>> > > So if a client had ['en-UK', 'en'], if no translation file for >>> en-uk.py >>> > > existed, it would "pick up" the en, and deliver in the site / apps >>> > > internally encoded strings (which would be appropriate). >>> > >>> > > If this is consistent, that the ordering from a client is first >>> > > country-specific, then country-agnostic, then this would probably be >>> > > reasonable. The only downside: if I complained (from UK for >>> example) >>> > > about "color" being misspelled (if I think it should be "colour"), >>> then the >>> > > app is not being explicit enough about what it says it's servering. >>> > >>> > > Having said that, I am now convinced (pretty well) that 'en' should >>> not be >>> > > part of the gluon/languages initialization. I think it should be >>> explicit, >>> > > and only one language - the more specific declaration, not the >>> broader one. >>> > >>> > > So - I think that the original patch I sent (with only 'en-us') is >>> correct, >>> > > and what we should use. >>> > >>> > > - Yarko >>> > >>> > >> -Thadeus >>> > >>> > >> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Yarko Tymciurak < >>> > >> resultsinsoftw...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> a short version of this (context: U.N. type of meeting): >>> > >>> > >>> you (in effect) changed the translator initialization code to say >>> "The >>> > >>> default language [string] I will present you is TWO lanugages", >>> Massimo, it >>> > >>> is _as if_ you said something like: "I'm speaking Itailan, or >>> another way >>> > >>> for you to think of it - I am speaking Russian" >>> > >>> > >>> It cannot be! I cannot "hear" you that way - I have to know >>> _which_ >>> > >>> language, if I am to have any hope of "hiring' the right >>> translator! >>> > >>> > >>> There is no "can of worms" in the _problem domain_; it is in your >>> not >>> > >>> being specific enough in what you told me you would be speaking! >>> > >>> > >>> :-) >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Yarko Tymciurak < >>> > >>> resultsinsoftw...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:37 PM, mdipierro < >>> mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu>wrote: >>> > >>> > >>>>> I put en-uk not en-gr. >>> > >>> > >>>> right, en-uk; from a software analysis perspective, only one >>> language >>> > >>>> should be in the initialization (addition of a non-country >>> specific version >>> > >>>> of said language should also be acceptable). >>> > >>> > >>>> You see, this is a big can of worms. How do you >>> > >>>>> know that the default application is in en-us and not en-uk? >>> > >>> > >>>> This is not can of worms at all: you do not "know" - you >>> declare; the >>> > >>>> patch as you made it, you in effect declared TWO languages (two >>> contry >>> > >>>> specific versions of the same base language, but for understanding >>> this it >>> > >>>> is clearer to ignore the "non-country-specific" part - and just >>> think of it >>> > >>>> as TWO languages. >>> > >>> > >>>> When you look at this as TWO languages, and your translation class >>> code, >>> > >>>> you will see that once any language is in accepted languages, it >>> will not be >>> > >>>> picked up from the application's languages/*.py file. >>> > >>> > >>>> And that is the bug - you should not be initializing two >>> languages, >>> > >>>> because you prevent the (potential) translations of either of them >>> from >>> > >>>> being picked up, and served to the client. >>> > >>> > >>>> I can see that you considered this as "all english" - but if you >>> think >>> > >>>> of this as separate languages, and in terms of how you read-in the >>> language >>> > >>>> translation files, then the mistake is easy to see. >>> > >>> > >>>>> This is >>> > >>>>> way it was not specified before. This is why I am still not >>> completely >>> > >>>>> convinced it is a good idea not to let the users be explicit. >>> > >>> > >>>> You are not looking at this in the right way; you are wrong - look >>> in >>> > >>>> terms of your design, and it should be immediately clear. >>> > >>> > >>>> For example, think about setting "default language" as 'it' and >>> 'es' --- >>> > >>>> and try to walk thru the logic in gluon/languages.py - then it >>> should be >>> > >>>> very clear that only _one_ language should be initialized. >>> > >>> > >>>> After that point, you can extend this to see that adding a >>> non-country >>> > >>>> specific language to the initialization does not cause any bad >>> behavior, and >>> > >>>> can be useful (help deliver the language appropriately more >>> often). >>> > >>> > >>>> Just remove 'en-uk' from this patch, and it will be fine. >>> > >>> > >>>> - Yarko >>> > >>> > >>>>> On Nov 24, 12:14 pm, Yarko Tymciurak < >>> resultsinsoftw...@gmail.com> >>> > >>>>> wrote: >>> > >>>>> > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 2:25 PM, mdipierro < >>> mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> >>> > >>>>> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>>>> > > Yarko's patch is tentatively in trunk since nobody seems to >>> > >>>>> complain >>> > >>>>> > > about this change in behavior. >>> > >>> > >>>>> > You made an error with the change you made in this patch: you >>> added >>> > >>>>> 3 >>> > >>>>> > languages, 'en', 'en-us', and 'en-gr'; >>> > >>>>> > This should only be either 'en-us' (the language of the >>> distro), or >>> > >>>>> at most >>> > >>>>> > ['en-us', 'en']. >>> > >>> > >>>>> > As you've done it, you've introduced another bug. >>> > >>> > >>>>> > Putting en-gr will prevent 'en-gr' from being seen if it is a >>> > >>>>> translation >>> > >>>>> > file UNLESS application FORCES a base language (for example). >>> > >>>>> > This means that 'behavior' and 'behaviour' will not be >>> > >>>>> appropriately >>> > >>>>> > picked up from a languages/en-gr.py file UNLESS EACH >>> application >>> > >>>>> forces >>> > >>>>> > language to 'en-us' (or some other, non-[en-gr] language). >>> > >>> > >>>>> > For example, a 'en-us' app will NOT be able (with this app) to >>> > >>>>> correctly >>> > >>>>> > display to someone in England, who has their language set as >>> 'en-gr'. >>> > >>> > >>>>> > Please fix this in trunk: to ['en-us']; ['en-us', 'en'] >>> would >>> > >>>>> also work >>> > >>>>> > appropriately and be acceptable. >>> > >>> > >>>>> > - Yarko >>> > >>> > >>>>> > > Massimo >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "web2py-users" group. To post to this group, send email to web2py@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
