I agree with you. Besides most of the current messages have been
written by Fran and Jonathan who are both in Europe. How are we to
decide what is en-us and what is en-uk?
On Nov 24, 2:28 pm, Thadeus Burgess <thade...@thadeusb.com> wrote:
> new install on ubuntu is [en-us, en].
>
> I think it should just default to 'en', if you want uk english or us
> english, then these are different languages, and should be forced.
>
> -Thadeus
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Yarko Tymciurak <
>
> resultsinsoftw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Thadeus Burgess
> > <thade...@thadeusb.com>wrote:
>
> >> Why can't it just be 'en'?
>
> > It probably could.... I just checked the request environment in a "new
> > install" browser I've never used ("Konquerer on Ubuntu) and web2py is
> > picking up
> > http_accept_language=['en-US', 'en']
>
> > So if a client had ['en-UK', 'en'], if no translation file for en-uk.py
> > existed, it would "pick up" the en, and deliver in the site / apps
> > internally encoded strings (which would be appropriate).
>
> > If this is consistent, that the ordering from a client is first
> > country-specific, then country-agnostic, then this would probably be
> > reasonable. The only downside: if I complained (from UK for example)
> > about "color" being misspelled (if I think it should be "colour"), then the
> > app is not being explicit enough about what it says it's servering.
>
> > Having said that, I am now convinced (pretty well) that 'en' should not be
> > part of the gluon/languages initialization. I think it should be explicit,
> > and only one language - the more specific declaration, not the broader one.
>
> > So - I think that the original patch I sent (with only 'en-us') is correct,
> > and what we should use.
>
> > - Yarko
>
> >> -Thadeus
>
> >> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Yarko Tymciurak <
> >> resultsinsoftw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> a short version of this (context: U.N. type of meeting):
>
> >>> you (in effect) changed the translator initialization code to say "The
> >>> default language [string] I will present you is TWO lanugages", Massimo,
> >>> it
> >>> is _as if_ you said something like: "I'm speaking Itailan, or another way
> >>> for you to think of it - I am speaking Russian"
>
> >>> It cannot be! I cannot "hear" you that way - I have to know _which_
> >>> language, if I am to have any hope of "hiring' the right translator!
>
> >>> There is no "can of worms" in the _problem domain_; it is in your not
> >>> being specific enough in what you told me you would be speaking!
>
> >>> :-)
>
> >>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Yarko Tymciurak <
> >>> resultsinsoftw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:37 PM, mdipierro
> >>>> <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu>wrote:
>
> >>>>> I put en-uk not en-gr.
>
> >>>> right, en-uk; from a software analysis perspective, only one language
> >>>> should be in the initialization (addition of a non-country specific
> >>>> version
> >>>> of said language should also be acceptable).
>
> >>>> You see, this is a big can of worms. How do you
> >>>>> know that the default application is in en-us and not en-uk?
>
> >>>> This is not can of worms at all: you do not "know" - you declare; the
> >>>> patch as you made it, you in effect declared TWO languages (two contry
> >>>> specific versions of the same base language, but for understanding this
> >>>> it
> >>>> is clearer to ignore the "non-country-specific" part - and just think of
> >>>> it
> >>>> as TWO languages.
>
> >>>> When you look at this as TWO languages, and your translation class code,
> >>>> you will see that once any language is in accepted languages, it will
> >>>> not be
> >>>> picked up from the application's languages/*.py file.
>
> >>>> And that is the bug - you should not be initializing two languages,
> >>>> because you prevent the (potential) translations of either of them from
> >>>> being picked up, and served to the client.
>
> >>>> I can see that you considered this as "all english" - but if you think
> >>>> of this as separate languages, and in terms of how you read-in the
> >>>> language
> >>>> translation files, then the mistake is easy to see.
>
> >>>>> This is
> >>>>> way it was not specified before. This is why I am still not completely
> >>>>> convinced it is a good idea not to let the users be explicit.
>
> >>>> You are not looking at this in the right way; you are wrong - look in
> >>>> terms of your design, and it should be immediately clear.
>
> >>>> For example, think about setting "default language" as 'it' and 'es' ---
> >>>> and try to walk thru the logic in gluon/languages.py - then it should be
> >>>> very clear that only _one_ language should be initialized.
>
> >>>> After that point, you can extend this to see that adding a non-country
> >>>> specific language to the initialization does not cause any bad behavior,
> >>>> and
> >>>> can be useful (help deliver the language appropriately more often).
>
> >>>> Just remove 'en-uk' from this patch, and it will be fine.
>
> >>>> - Yarko
>
> >>>>> On Nov 24, 12:14 pm, Yarko Tymciurak <resultsinsoftw...@gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>> > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 2:25 PM, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu>
> >>>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>> > > Yarko's patch is tentatively in trunk since nobody seems to
> >>>>> complain
> >>>>> > > about this change in behavior.
>
> >>>>> > You made an error with the change you made in this patch: you added
> >>>>> 3
> >>>>> > languages, 'en', 'en-us', and 'en-gr';
> >>>>> > This should only be either 'en-us' (the language of the distro), or
> >>>>> at most
> >>>>> > ['en-us', 'en'].
>
> >>>>> > As you've done it, you've introduced another bug.
>
> >>>>> > Putting en-gr will prevent 'en-gr' from being seen if it is a
> >>>>> translation
> >>>>> > file UNLESS application FORCES a base language (for example).
> >>>>> > This means that 'behavior' and 'behaviour' will not be
> >>>>> appropriately
> >>>>> > picked up from a languages/en-gr.py file UNLESS EACH application
> >>>>> forces
> >>>>> > language to 'en-us' (or some other, non-[en-gr] language).
>
> >>>>> > For example, a 'en-us' app will NOT be able (with this app) to
> >>>>> correctly
> >>>>> > display to someone in England, who has their language set as 'en-gr'.
>
> >>>>> > Please fix this in trunk: to ['en-us']; ['en-us', 'en'] would
> >>>>> also work
> >>>>> > appropriately and be acceptable.
>
> >>>>> > - Yarko
>
> >>>>> > > Massimo
>
>
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