On Sep 1, 2:33 pm, Iceberg <iceb...@21cn.com> wrote:
> Weheh, I have to say, you are a bad, bad guy. Because when I saw the
> title of your post, I was ready for a fight and rushed to see your
> post. But after reading, I lost the reason to make a heated-up
> dispute. :-)
I would be regarded as an outsider here, but I am going to be blunt
here and say that you as users of web2py have to temper your
enthusiasm and tendency to attack when anyone says anything that might
seem the least bit critical, as the way it comes across, as seen by
outsiders like myself who monitor many web projects in the Python
community, is not particularly positive and reflects badly on the
web2py community.
Various people in the wider community liken some of what is done by
Massimo and you as web2py users as advertising and having advertising
pushed down your throat is not something that is appreciated in the
Open Source community. Now I know that Massimo sees it as advocacy,
but that isn't how it is seen by others. Personally some of what I
have seen is more akin to evangelism or fanaticism to an extreme and
like I don't like having mormons knocking on my door trying to push
their religion, I don't look favourably at people trying to promote
things in that way.
So, if you want to promote web2py, you really need to adjust your
thinking as about the best way of doing that. Trying to do it by
advertising, advocacy, evangelism or whatever you want to call it as
you are doing now, isn't necessarily working.
One thing that would give much more credibility is if prominent people
in the web2py community, including Massimo, actually reached out to
other projects in the Python community, instead of just seeming to try
and take from them, and gave back to them in some way. And no I don't
mean going out and trying to convert them to your religion. Instead
build your profile through blogging about how to use web2py, but also
blog about other non web2py stuff which is useful to other people who
don't use web2py. Over time people will see you as a knowledgeable
person in their own right who just happens to use web2py. That
positive association can only be of benefit to web2py. You could also
consider contributing code to other Python projects and join in some
of the joint discussions about moving forward stuff like WSGI
component mechanisms. At the moment the web2py community is seen to a
degree as being elitist and looking down at the rest of the Python
community with a measure of arrogance.
Instead of reaching out and helping, what you instead see at the
moment is attempts at self promotion on places like comments on
reddit. Such comments are usually of the form 'use web2py', but more
often than not have very little substance beyond that as to why web2py
might be a viable choice. In other words, the arguments in support of
we2bpy are quite shallow. And Massimo, you really need to stop calling
on web2py users to do comment spamming like that. I am not really
surprised if reddit had instigated a ban on web2py related posts
because of this, it just isn't something the Open Source community is
likely to appreciate.
In summary, stop isolating yourself off and instead participate in a
meaningful way with the wider community rather than taking the stance
that you have the best thing since sliced bread and being openly
dismissive of other projects and/or people who may critique web2py.
You also need to shift from chanting that web2py is the best to
showing why it is good. This needs to include to a degree addressing
the perception that web2py is really a one man show.
Personally, the way the web2py community comes across and the way
individuals carry themselves is why I have tended never to provide any
assistance in relation to mod_wsgi when using web2py. I believe
Massimo over time has identified that how the web2py community is seen
is a problem and has tried to take some positive steps to remedy that,
and why I have started contributing a little, but you still have a way
to go as some of the decisions really just seem to carry along in the
same footsteps.
PS. I also do not appreciate getting rants in my personal inbox. Feel
free to discuss this here on the web2py list, but I don't want any
hate in my inbox as I know others have got when they have said things
viewed as less than positive about the web2py community. :-)
Graham
> PS: It doesn't need a native English speaker to understand your humor.
> I am from China too. :-)
>
> Iceberg
>
> On Sep1, 10:00am, weheh <richard_gor...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I've been using web2py for around 6 months now and I thought I'd share
> > a bunch of reasons why I think web2py is a bad thing all around.
>
> > I used to be an expert at all sorts of things in order to build my
> > websites. I developed a whole python infrastructure over a couple of
> > years that mostly enforced a MVC development structure. With it, I
> > could get a new website, like a photo gallery website, roughed-in in
> > under a week. I had a bunch of tricks up my sleeve, written in
> > javascript, css, cookies, AJAX, Apache, MySQL, html, XML, and other
> > arcane stuff. It was a steep learning curve and frustrating having to
> > learn all those different languages, but it gave me big mental muscles
> > and a big ego to go along with them. My websites were reasonbly
> > consistent looking and did a few nifty grpahics tricks to boot. They
> > stood up pretty well to lots of page hits.
>
> > Now, I only use what comes in the web2py package and my sites look way
> > more consistent, do more graphics tricks, and use a ton less code. My
> > websites never break and I rarely check in on them to see if they're
> > working. They just work. I can develop the look and feel of the site
> > before writing the database and controller code. The photo-gallery
> > site that took a week to develop ... I can now do in an afternoon.
> > Another site that took me months to develop ... I'm on the way to
> > implementing it in a couple of weeks. I have so much extra time on my
> > hand that I find myself worrying about really dumb stuff, like
> > implementing rounded corners on my boxes or getting just the right
> > shade of eggshell blue in my background. I thought I still had a valid
> > complaint that the web2py doc was thin and incomplete, but now that
> > Massimo has come out with the fantastic rev 2.0 of the doc, even that
> > gripe has been taken away from me.
>
> > Now my mental muscles are going flabby and my ego has been deflated.
> > Practically any shmoe can now make an excellent dynamic website with
> > web2py. Web2py is a bad, bad thing.
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