The nature of the problem is different from the nature of the solution... in that, the technology is _completely_ irrelevant;
The solution provider's problem is [1] understanding the problem [2] understanding the technology (to know what solution level can be offered.... and [3] competitively costing the solution. In the second problem space, the question "what does appcelerator / and or web2py provide me - the solution provider" - is completely relevant. Who's problem perspective we are talking about is what seems to be in question. I mean appcelerator (or anything like this) is evaluated from the perspective of solution-provider's-problem. For a discussion of the differing aspects of problem vs. solution (and how you can tell which you are talking about) see http://www.ccsr.uiuc.edu/web/Techreports/1990-94/CCSR-91-14.pdf On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:24 PM, achipa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > We seem to be using different terminology, apart from that, I agree (I > would have said defining the problem *is* a task which is part of the > whole project, just as prototyping is a task/phase in itself, > sometimes overlapping other tasks to an extent). The importance of > clients understanding the technologies involved at least to a certain > level can hardly be avoided. Otherwise, they simply won't know what is > possible (and won't communicate it to you as a problem or requirement > and thus will be very hard to discover). On the other side is the 'too > savvy for his own good' problem, where they request a *specific > solution* without both of you analyzing the problem and requirements > (like requesting/specifying the development of a complex feature which > has already been technologically surpassed or there is an acceptable > solution available from third parties). But we digress, this is > generic software development talk, and has less to do with > appcelerator and web2py. > > On Oct 31, 4:46 pm, "Yarko T" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Defining the problem is part of the task; prototyping can help clarify / > > validate; the preliminary part I don't think requires client knowledge > of > > technology, nor consultant/company knowledge of client problem - it is a > > discovery phase, which is equally important when you _think_ you have a > > grasp of what is needed. > > > > There is no one "right" or "best" strategy, but a bagful... but one > thing > > common is "rapid prototyping", or mockups, _and_ effective listening > (that > > is NOT jumping to solution - a common engineer's behavior, necessarily: > we > > are those who solve, after all) are all part of it. > > > > In terms of web application solutions, malleability of "look", > presentation > > to user is something that helps delivery (underlying business logic is > > perhaps the most stable component of a solution, evolving rather than so > > much changing; we seem to have the DB / backend part in pretty good > shape). > > > > Proposed engineering adjuncts / solutions like Appcellerator I think need > to > > be evaluated in the light of how well it serves the engineering needs as > I > > outline above, particularly support of effectively being able to iterate > as > > client needs are better understood & discovered through a process. > > > > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 7:40 PM, achipa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > We were talking about the tech part of prototyping (the idea to > > > prototype phase of project). The prototyping you outline contains also > > > a preliminary part - the development of the idea itself. Often the > > > client does not really know what he wants or has a very limited grasp > > > of the technology and solutions available. In these cases, good old > > > pen and paper (even if electronic like google docs, or just annotated > > > mockup screenshots) are a very valid and good way to go to get an > > > actual spec, which then can go to tech people to be prototyped and > > > developed/refined further. > > > > > On Oct 30, 10:38 pm, "Steve Shepherd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Just to pickup on the prototyping discussion, > > > > I have pulled my hair out about this for over 3 years. > > > > The key to prototyping is to allow very quick changing of ideas to > match > > > the > > > > GOALS of the user. > > > > If you code it you start pouring concrete and immediately start > building > > > > walls to further innovation. > > > > The more effort a coder invests in developing the prototype the more > > > > resistent to changes the mind automatically becomes. > > > > I finally settle on a simple Google doc with hand drawing of the > screen > > > with > > > > implementation notes at the bottom. > > > > Its not perfect but it does allow collaboration with google docs and > it > > > > doesn't have a whole technical knowledge thing to breakdown. > > > > > > Below I have included an example of a screen I am developing for an > > > > applicaiton: > > > > (The square brackets are buttons and dropdowns) > > > > > > The Marketing Manager Main Page > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > * > > > > [Add a Campaign] [Select an Action[v]]**- (1 to 2 of 15) Campaigns > > > > * *Select* > > > > *Title > > > > * *Information > > > > * *Responses* > > > > * > > > > ( )* > > > > *Messages to Prospective Students for Hort 2 Course prior to them > > > signing > > > > up* > > > > (4) Messages, Horticulture, Agri Learning Category, Followup, > Modified > > > > Yesterday, By Me The Information section is a combo of a number of > fields > > > of > > > > information. > > > > (10) People linked > > > > (2) Sent a Response > > > > (20% Responses) > > > > (3) Added last 10 days [Adjust] > > > > * > > > > * *(*)* > > > > *A Welcome for new Hort 2 Students before course starts.* > > > > (2) Messages, Horticulture Category, Countdown, Modified Last Week, > By > > > Jan > > > > Davies > > > > > > *Include > > > > * *Filter the Campaigns > > > > * [X] > > > > Horticulture > > > > [X] > > > > Agri Learning > > > > [ ] > > > > Sport > > > > [X] > > > > Last 7 Days > > > > [ ] > > > > Last Month > > > > [X] > > > > By Me > > > > [X] > > > > By Others > > > > *Options* > > > > *Add a Filter* > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Design Info You can hover over the 2 and change the number of > records on > > > a > > > > Page. etc etc > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "web2py Web Framework" group. 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