answers for web2py:
1) fast website development times - yes but use T2
2) steady runtime - rock solid on linux and mac. I never reboot mine
except of upgrades. I get >10000 requests/day.
3) good DB support = db transcactions + custom sqls (joins + triggers
+ pl/pg sql)
I use it with postgresql and it works great. It supports sqlite,
mysql, postgresql, msssql, firebase, oracle and gae.
Except on gae you can do left joins and inner joins. You can use
triggers but they are back-end specific so you need to use raw sql:
db.executesql(' ... raw sql ... ')
web2py does automatic transactions unless you specify otherwise, i.e.
every single http request is executed in one transaction.
4) You can actually use web2py for huge apps. It has minimal overhead
and stronger security than other frameworks
http://groups.google.com/group/web2py/browse_thread/thread/cab9ef6e60e535e2
If you write your apps using T2 they will work on the Google App
Engine and that means even greater scalability.
In fact web2py is been used to write the registration software for
Pycon 2009.
Massimo
On Oct 31, 3:47 pm, "Daniel Guryca" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As for Appcelerator:
> I have tried to create a few apps with it.
> Hmm .. I'm not very excited. Some app tags are not working as they
> should ... rendering problems and others.
> For me that is a signal to leave this technology.
>
> As for my choice of framework for my future web apps:
> Now I'm still choosing between these 3 frameworks (initially cut from 20+ :-)
> Grails (Groovy Java) , Django , Web2py
>
> My framework expectations:
> fast website development times
> steady runtime
> good DB support = db transcactions + custom sqls (joins + triggers + pl/pg
> sql)
> enough power and performance for little and even mediocre sites (I do
> not consider this framework for huge apps - I guess that only Grails
> could do it which is a + point for it :-)
>
> Any comments why I should go a web2py way (can web2py do all these) ?
> Thank you
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 8:15 PM, Yarko T <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The nature of the problem is different from the nature of the solution... in
> > that, the technology is _completely_ irrelevant;
>
> > The solution provider's problem is [1] understanding the problem [2]
> > understanding the technology (to know what solution level can be
> > offered.... and [3] competitively costing the solution.
>
> > In the second problem space, the question "what does appcelerator / and or
> > web2py provide me - the solution provider" - is completely relevant.
>
> > Who's problem perspective we are talking about is what seems to be in
> > question. I mean appcelerator (or anything like this) is evaluated from the
> > perspective of solution-provider's-problem. For a discussion of the
> > differing aspects of problem vs. solution (and how you can tell which you
> > are talking about) see
> >http://www.ccsr.uiuc.edu/web/Techreports/1990-94/CCSR-91-14.pdf
>
> > On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:24 PM, achipa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> We seem to be using different terminology, apart from that, I agree (I
> >> would have said defining the problem *is* a task which is part of the
> >> whole project, just as prototyping is a task/phase in itself,
> >> sometimes overlapping other tasks to an extent). The importance of
> >> clients understanding the technologies involved at least to a certain
> >> level can hardly be avoided. Otherwise, they simply won't know what is
> >> possible (and won't communicate it to you as a problem or requirement
> >> and thus will be very hard to discover). On the other side is the 'too
> >> savvy for his own good' problem, where they request a *specific
> >> solution* without both of you analyzing the problem and requirements
> >> (like requesting/specifying the development of a complex feature which
> >> has already been technologically surpassed or there is an acceptable
> >> solution available from third parties). But we digress, this is
> >> generic software development talk, and has less to do with
> >> appcelerator and web2py.
>
> >> On Oct 31, 4:46 pm, "Yarko T" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > Defining the problem is part of the task; prototyping can help clarify
> >> > /
> >> > validate; the preliminary part I don't think requires client knowledge
> >> > of
> >> > technology, nor consultant/company knowledge of client problem - it is a
> >> > discovery phase, which is equally important when you _think_ you have a
> >> > grasp of what is needed.
>
> >> > There is no one "right" or "best" strategy, but a bagful... but one
> >> > thing
> >> > common is "rapid prototyping", or mockups, _and_ effective listening
> >> > (that
> >> > is NOT jumping to solution - a common engineer's behavior, necessarily:
> >> > we
> >> > are those who solve, after all) are all part of it.
>
> >> > In terms of web application solutions, malleability of "look",
> >> > presentation
> >> > to user is something that helps delivery (underlying business logic is
> >> > perhaps the most stable component of a solution, evolving rather than so
> >> > much changing; we seem to have the DB / backend part in pretty good
> >> > shape).
>
> >> > Proposed engineering adjuncts / solutions like Appcellerator I think
> >> > need to
> >> > be evaluated in the light of how well it serves the engineering needs as
> >> > I
> >> > outline above, particularly support of effectively being able to iterate
> >> > as
> >> > client needs are better understood & discovered through a process.
>
> >> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 7:40 PM, achipa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> > > We were talking about the tech part of prototyping (the idea to
> >> > > prototype phase of project). The prototyping you outline contains also
> >> > > a preliminary part - the development of the idea itself. Often the
> >> > > client does not really know what he wants or has a very limited grasp
> >> > > of the technology and solutions available. In these cases, good old
> >> > > pen and paper (even if electronic like google docs, or just annotated
> >> > > mockup screenshots) are a very valid and good way to go to get an
> >> > > actual spec, which then can go to tech people to be prototyped and
> >> > > developed/refined further.
>
> >> > > On Oct 30, 10:38 pm, "Steve Shepherd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > > > Just to pickup on the prototyping discussion,
> >> > > > I have pulled my hair out about this for over 3 years.
> >> > > > The key to prototyping is to allow very quick changing of ideas to
> >> > > > match
> >> > > the
> >> > > > GOALS of the user.
> >> > > > If you code it you start pouring concrete and immediately start
> >> > > > building
> >> > > > walls to further innovation.
> >> > > > The more effort a coder invests in developing the prototype the more
> >> > > > resistent to changes the mind automatically becomes.
> >> > > > I finally settle on a simple Google doc with hand drawing of the
> >> > > > screen
> >> > > with
> >> > > > implementation notes at the bottom.
> >> > > > Its not perfect but it does allow collaboration with google docs and
> >> > > > it
> >> > > > doesn't have a whole technical knowledge thing to breakdown.
>
> >> > > > Below I have included an example of a screen I am developing for an
> >> > > > applicaiton:
> >> > > > (The square brackets are buttons and dropdowns)
>
> >> > > > The Marketing Manager Main Page
> >> > > > ------------------------------
> >> > > > *
> >> > > > [Add a Campaign] [Select an Action[v]]**- (1 to 2 of 15) Campaigns
> >> > > > * *Select*
> >> > > > *Title
> >> > > > * *Information
> >> > > > * *Responses*
> >> > > > *
> >> > > > ( )*
> >> > > > *Messages to Prospective Students for Hort 2 Course prior to them
> >> > > signing
> >> > > > up*
> >> > > > (4) Messages, Horticulture, Agri Learning Category, Followup,
> >> > > > Modified
> >> > > > Yesterday, By Me The Information section is a combo of a number of
> >> > > > fields
> >> > > of
> >> > > > information.
> >> > > > (10) People linked
> >> > > > (2) Sent a Response
> >> > > > (20% Responses)
> >> > > > (3) Added last 10 days [Adjust]
> >> > > > *
> >> > > > * *(*)*
> >> > > > *A Welcome for new Hort 2 Students before course starts.*
> >> > > > (2) Messages, Horticulture Category, Countdown, Modified Last Week,
> >> > > > By
> >> > > Jan
> >> > > > Davies
>
> >> > > > *Include
> >> > > > * *Filter the Campaigns
> >> > > > * [X]
> >> > > > Horticulture
> >> > > > [X]
> >> > > > Agri Learning
> >> > > > [ ]
> >> > > > Sport
> >> > > > [X]
> >> > > > Last 7 Days
> >> > > > [ ]
> >> > > > Last Month
> >> > > > [X]
> >> > > > By Me
> >> > > > [X]
> >> > > > By Others
> >> > > > *Options*
> >> > > > *Add a Filter*
>
> >> > > > ------------------------------
> >> > > > Design Info You can hover over the 2 and change the number of
> >> > > > records on
> >> > > a
> >> > > > Page. etc etc
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