And here we go again...
If a way is designated for riding a bicycle then it's a cycleway,
irrelevant of severity or conditions.
cycleway with mtb:scale combination is a valid tag.
mtb:scale gives an indication of what equipment would probably be required.
The problem, as so often in OSM, is subjectivity.
I do the occasional off-road riding and, going on the photographs on the
wiki, I'm damned if I can distinguish severity between them.
mtb:scale should be expanded to include level ways as value 0 as
locations dedicated to MTBing often have gentle routes specifically for
beginners/children.
DaveF
On 02/04/2020 10:10, Volker Schmidt wrote:
If a highway is mtb:scale=2 it is definitely not a cycleway. It is a
highway=path with mtb:scale=2
If this were to encounter a "cycleway" with mtb:scale=2 , I would consider
this an error and retag it as highway=path without hesitation.
I agree, that this is not explicitly stated in the bicycle wiki page, and
should be added there, but I would assume that this is the common
understanding. Anything else would cause major problems with the huge stock
of existing highway=cycleway in OSM that have no mtb:scale tag. Routers for
non-MTB bicycles would all need to change and evaluate the mtb:scale tag.
There is already a similar problem with the OpenCycleMap rendering in the
sense that it renders a dedicated cycle path in the same way as a path with
bicycle=yes. This has the effect that many MTB friends have added
bicycle=yes to "normal" hiking paths to make them appear as MTB friendly on
the map, but also with the problem that when I look at that map I wrongly
see a cycle paths where I would never be able to pass with my loaded
touring bike.
Please keep paths that can only be used by MTB clearly different from
cycleways that can be used non-MTB bicycles.
On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 10:11, Andrew Harvey <andrew.harv...@gmail.com> wrote:
My view based on current usage, reading of the wiki and general opinion is
that highway=cycleway is meant for any path that is either
designed/intended for bicycles or specifically designated (signposted) for
bicycles, irrespective of if it's an urban track or mountain biking track.
So a mountain bike track and an urban cycle track should both be tagged
with highway=cycleway as the primary tag. surface= and smoothness= can help
for both to help guide users on which kind of bicycle the track is suitable
for, and mtb:scale=/mtb:scale:imba= are used to indicate this is a
designated mountain biking track.
highway=path is specifically for a general use / unspecified path, which a
mountain biking track may be if it's informal/shared, but purpose built and
signposted mountain bike tracks don't fall into that category.
A similar thing applies to hiking tracks, sometimes they are designated
walking paths so use highway=footway + surface + sac_scale, but sometimes
they are just an unmarked or mixed use path so are highway=path + surface +
sac_scale.
Open to other opinions or comments.
On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 18:56, Phyks <ph...@phyks.me> wrote:
Hi,
A discussion in CyclOSM issue tracker [1] spotted that there exists
around 3500 highway=cycleway around the world which have specific
mountain bikes (MTB) tags. In particular, around 800 highway=cycleway
around the world declare a mtb:scale greater than 2, which would make
them impassable without a proper mountain bike. Such cycleways would not
be passable with a regular city bike. One example of such a case is at
[2].
Looking at the wiki page [3],
"the highway=cycleway tag indicates a separate way for the use of
cyclists"
which does not mandate explicitly that a cycleway be accessible with any
kind of bikes and should also cover dedicated paths for MTB. However,
the documentation around cycleways and bike features is very oriented
towards city cycling and there is no illustration about MTB-specific
cycleways.
So, is this considered a valid tagging or should it be represented by
another highway class (path, track, etc)? If this is valid, I propose to
add a statement in the wiki explicitly mentioning that cycleways can be
restricted for specific kinds of bicycles, for future questions.
Best,
[1] https://github.com/cyclosm/cyclosm-cartocss-style/issues/208
[2] https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/86978431#map=17/41.26426/-73.91907
[3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dcycleway
--
Phyks
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