And this is the work from Michael Johnson's ebible.org https://ebible.org/Scriptures/details.php?id=fraLSG
On Wed, Nov 6, 2024 at 9:25 AM Michael H <cma...@gmail.com> wrote: > FYI: > > I made a French Segond which contains much peripheral text (longer titles, > second titles, cross references, etc.) in addition to the scripture. It's > based on the UBS source (meaning as far as I know it's based on the actual > editions printed by the United Bible Society since 1910, and not on OCR / > Internet editions.) If I remember correctly, my specific reason for hosting > it was that I removed the Strongs numbering. Besides that, I think I > renamed some weird markers related to a 4th or 5th level of section title > in one or more of the books. > > Which leads me to think that Michael Johnson probably currently has access > and hosts an LSG which is a more direct port of the UBS text that still > contains Strongs numbering, and IS the versification of the original. > > (my (for print and reading) edition, in USFM) > > https://github.com/BibleCorps/FRA-B-LSG1910-PD-UBS/blob/main/p.sfm/FRA%5BB%5DLSG1910%5BPD%5DUBS-01-GEN.p.sfm > > Michael Johnson's LSG edition with Strongs numbering > > https://github.com/BibleCorps/FRA-B-LSG1910-PD-UBS/blob/main/p.sfm/FRA%5BB%5DLSG1910%5BPD%5DUBS-01-GEN.p.sfm > > If these texts have issues, please mention it here, because the UBS should > know. > > On Wed, Nov 6, 2024 at 7:33 AM Arnaud Vié <unas.zole+a...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I support Cyrille's suggestion of using wikisource as the main source for >> public domain bibles when we have a good facsimile available. >> >> For those not familiar with how wikisource works, the idea is that one >> can upload a facsimile (in djvu format), and then users can transcribe it >> into text and correct it page by page, making it easy to compare and >> potentially fix. >> See for example this view, on one specific page of the Segond 1910, with >> the facsimile on the right and the transcribed text on the left : >> https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:La_Sainte_Bible,_trad._Segond,_ed._1910.djvu/8 >> Each page can be edited, then reviewed, corrected, and so on - and the >> wiki setup makes it easy to collaborate. >> There is even the possibility with dedicated markup to annotate >> corrections to the original text : when the original text contains an >> obvious typo that you want to fix, you can edit your fix in while >> preserving the original text with specific markup, so that the document >> still keeps track of the original form and what was corrected. >> >> Then, proper markup while transcribing the text allows wikisource to >> group it as proper books and chapters, format the text, integrate notes, >> etc. >> See the full bible index here : >> https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Livre:La_Sainte_Bible,_trad._Segond,_ed._1910.djvu >> With the index page by page on the left, and the reconstructed text index >> by book on the right. >> >> And then, as long as you ensure that your markup is consistent throughout >> your transcription of all pages of the same text (eg. titles of the same >> level are transcribed with the same markup, etc.), it is easy enough with >> my bible scraper to fetch all the books from wikisource and convert them >> into USFM or OSIS - as nicely advertised by Cyrille and Matěj above. >> Which means that if anyone brought some corrections to the wikisource >> text over time, you can just re-run the scraper to get an updated USFM/OSIS >> document with these corrections - you don't need to maintain your own >> document separately. >> >> The only question is how you intend to handle Strong's numbers, since >> they are not present in the original facsimile (at least not the one >> present on wikisource), and therefore not stored in wikisource. >> This means my scraper can only output a document without Strong's >> numbers, and you'd have to inject them in post processing with another tool >> - but from your message above it seems you already have what you need for >> this. >> >> If you want to try going into this direction, I can easily write a small >> scraper configuration file for the Segond version currently available on >> wikisource so that you can try it out. >> >> Regards, >> >> Arnaud >> >> Le mer. 6 nov. 2024 à 09:27, Fr Cyrille <fr.cyri...@tiberiade.be> a >> écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> Le 06/11/2024 à 00:48, yvand a écrit : >>> >>> Thank you all for your answers! >>> >>> I think if we can get the text (which is in public domain) from a >>> well-known bible editor, it is interesting and easier. Currently the >>> version Segond 1910 exists in different versions (differences in >>> notes/titles, maybe also in accents Ésaü/Esaü ?) and it is interesting to >>> know to what it corresponds. We can still share typos upstream or/and use a >>> patch to fix typos, and update wikisource text. >>> >>> If wikisource is the source, we need to know if and what paper edition >>> it matches exactly. If the reader can refer to a paper edition, it is >>> interesting. From where will come the text and notes in wikisource? Which >>> choices for notes/titles? >>> >>> Personally, I don't know, but you can check for yourself if the >>> facsimile >>> <https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Fichier:La_Sainte_Bible,_trad._Segond,_ed._1910.djvu> >>> is correct. I know that a contributor has searched long and hard for this >>> facsimile. I sincerely think that wikisource is the best place. We no >>> longer need to ask anyone for the right to use the text (even in the public >>> domain). What's more, Matej beat me to it: Arnaud's tool is absolutely >>> incredible in its ability to convert to usfm or osis. I invite you to try >>> it out. What's more, Arnaud is very responsive and saved me a lot of work. >>> I now have 3 bibles in French on wikisource, the Glaire, the Giguet and the >>> Crampon. >>> >>> Now the text on wikisource only has the titles for some books. It >>> remains to add the notes/crossreferences. But if you have a text with >>> notes, it can be quite easy to download the wiki text and add the notes. >>> >>> >>> https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Livre:La_Sainte_Bible,_trad._Segond,_ed._1910.djvu >>> >>> Personally, I found domcox's proposition interesting. >>> >>> >>> I connected to DBL and found 2 different projects : >>> >>> - "Français Louis Segond 1910" (last archive 2020-12-15) >>> >>> - "Louis Segond 1910 Original Corrected (Public Domain version)" (last >>> archive 2024-08-01) ("La Sainte Bible par Louis Segond 1910. Société >>> Biblique britannique et étrangere. Texte historique, références corrigées >>> en 2019." "Ce qu'il y a de nouveau dans l'édition actuelle, ce sont surtout >>> les parallèles. Là où ces parallèles rendaient superflues les notes de M. >>> Segond, celles-ci ont été supprimées. De meme, les notes qui exprimaient >>> une opinion théologique, ou qui présentaient un commentairs sur le texte, >>> ont été laissés de cote, conformement aux statuts de la Société, qui >>> excluent de ses éditions de Écritures des notes de ce genre.") >>> >>> Both are published by British & Foreign Bible Society >>> >>> But the access seem not public. As this Bible is in public domain, I >>> guess they will share with us if we ask. >>> >>> >>> Maybe Michael can help us to how the source of his module and how he did >>> it? Is it based on DBL? If so which project and what tool do you use? from >>> USX or USFM export? >>> >>> >>> For versification, I agree with domcox's remark, we can keep the >>> original versification. I can convert from our versification (WLC for OT / >>> NA for NT) to the segond versification with a script. >>> >>> >>> If we go that way, I guess we need to do those steps: >>> >>> 1. Access DBL, export data (text, notes, titles if present) in USX or >>> USFM from Paratext >>> >>> 2. Convert to OSIS (better for sword and required because USX and USFM >>> do not support Strong's number, isn't it ?) >>> >>> 3. Add Strong's numbers (= add <w> tags on words) : for this, I can work >>> to match exactly the text from the previous OSIS in our database, and >>> develop a tool to add the last version of our Strong's numbers on it. >>> >>> 4. Update sword module >>> >>> The last two steps (3. and 4.) will be regularly relaunched, because we >>> do corrections on Strong's numbers regurlarly. It is still a work in >>> progress, but I think the work is already not so not too bad. >>> >>> >>> @Fr Cyrille : We need to exchange by email (not here) if and how we can >>> help you to add Strong's numbers on your néo-crampon version. Our initial >>> assignment tool (for Strong's numbers) has gathered dust and requires >>> french lemmatization and proper versification versions with the WLC or NA >>> to be effective. Can you send me a mail in French, with more details (what >>> is this new version? is it close to other French versions other than >>> Crampon? what is the actual format you use? which versification?…). >>> >>> >>> yvand >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 05/11/2024 à 19:38, domcox a écrit : >>> >>> yvand <yvand.sw...@gmail.com> <yvand.sw...@gmail.com> writes: >>> >>> >>> For Segond 1910, the text is in public domain. I used mod2imp to get the >>> text from the FreSegond (Crosswire) module months >>> ago. The only changes we made are about versification. Indeed all our >>> texts use the same versification (based on WLC, for OT = >>> German in sword), so the text matches the original (hebrew WLC or greek >>> MT/WH) one and we can easily compare >>> translations. >>> >>> >>> As lot of people still read the printed French Segond 1910 or >>> derivatives, I think it's very important to match the printed >>> versification. Regular readers generally view Bible software with not >>> matching versifications as second-rate software. >>> We have a matching Bible Segond versification, let's keep it that way. >>> >>> >>> In the past, the FreLSG module had Strong's numbers. If I am correct >>> (see discussion "Strong numbers for Louis Segond" in >>> 2013/07), we do not have the authorization (but still available in STEP) >>> so this module has been removed or replaced by >>> FreSegond module (renamed ?). >>> >>> >>> In the past, the FreLSG had Strong's numbers. It was upgraded later to a >>> new version that was horrible, filled with errors >>> and even containing deuteros that never existed in the Segond Bible. >>> >>> This is why I made the FreSegond module, it was not an easy task. The >>> Segond Bible is everywhere on the Web, but it looks like >>> all sites use the same source, and it's not accurate. >>> >>> >>> The fraLSG1910eb (F10) module is a more recent one, available in e-bible >>> repo with headings, WoC and Strong's numbers. It >>> seems to be a work in progress for Strong's numbers. They are not >>> available for all books. I compare Strong's numbers >>> affectations for the first verses of Genesis 1 (see attached screenshot) >>> but there are errors in this module. On the left this >>> module, on the right our data (https://concordance.bible/Sg1910/Gen/1/). >>> >>> >>> >>> If I remember well, Michael have access to the DBL, so his module is >>> certainly based on the official Public Domain version, >>> edited by the Alliance Biblique Française ( >>> https://lire.la-bible.net/bible/LSG/GEN.1) >>> >>> >>> So I contact all of you (especially actual maintainers of Segond 1910 >>> modules and French users) what would be the >>> best way of giving our Strong's numbers for Segond 1910 in a sword >>> module. I don't know who is concerned or interested >>> that's why I send to the mailing list. >>> >>> As there is already many existing Segond 1910 sword module, it guess it >>> would not be a good idea of creating a new one. On >>> one side, as our text is based from FreSegond module, it might be a good >>> idea of updating this module with Strong's numbers >>> (the only difference is versification). On the other hand, the >>> fraLSG1910eb module offers Strong's numbers but our data seems >>> more accurate and complete, so it could be interesting of updating this >>> module. In any case, it would be important to submit >>> updates regularly for Strong's numbers. >>> >>> >>> I think the best option for this module should be: >>> >>> 1. Have access to the DBL version >>> 2. Update the current CrossWire module from that source with footnotes, >>> comments and cross-references, keeping the original versification >>> 3. Add Strong's numbers >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: >>> sword-devel@crosswire.orghttp://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Vous aimez la Bible ? Vous êtes étudiant en théologie ? Utilisez >>> l'application libre Xiphos <https://xiphos.org/> ou Andbible >>> <https://andbible.github.io/> et accédez aux textes sources, à des >>> commentaires, des dictionnaires et beaucoup d'autres fonctionnalités... Me >>> contacter pour des traductions en français. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org >>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org >> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >
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