Le 06/11/2024 à 00:48, yvand a écrit :
Thank you all for your answers!
I think if we can get the text (which is in public domain) from a
well-known bible editor, it is interesting and easier. Currently the
version Segond 1910 exists in different versions (differences in
notes/titles, maybe also in accents Ésaü/Esaü ?) and it is interesting
to know to what it corresponds. We can still share typos upstream
or/and use a patch to fix typos, and update wikisource text.
If wikisource is the source, we need to know if and what paper edition
it matches exactly. If the reader can refer to a paper edition, it is
interesting. From where will come the text and notes in wikisource?
Which choices for notes/titles?
Personally, I don't know, but you can check for yourself if the
facsimile
<https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Fichier:La_Sainte_Bible,_trad._Segond,_ed._1910.djvu>
is correct. I know that a contributor has searched long and hard for
this facsimile. I sincerely think that wikisource is the best place. We
no longer need to ask anyone for the right to use the text (even in the
public domain). What's more, Matej beat me to it: Arnaud's tool is
absolutely incredible in its ability to convert to usfm or osis. I
invite you to try it out. What's more, Arnaud is very responsive and
saved me a lot of work. I now have 3 bibles in French on wikisource, the
Glaire, the Giguet and the Crampon.
Now the text on wikisource only has the titles for some books. It
remains to add the notes/crossreferences. But if you have a text with
notes, it can be quite easy to download the wiki text and add the notes.
https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Livre:La_Sainte_Bible,_trad._Segond,_ed._1910.djvu
Personally, I found domcox's proposition interesting.
I connected to DBL and found 2 different projects :
- "Français Louis Segond 1910" (last archive 2020-12-15)
- "Louis Segond 1910 Original Corrected (Public Domain version)" (last
archive 2024-08-01) ("La Sainte Bible par Louis Segond 1910. Société
Biblique britannique et étrangere. Texte historique, références
corrigées en 2019." "Ce qu'il y a de nouveau dans l'édition actuelle,
ce sont surtout les parallèles. Là où ces parallèles rendaient
superflues les notes de M. Segond, celles-ci ont été supprimées. De
meme, les notes qui exprimaient une opinion théologique, ou qui
présentaient un commentairs sur le texte, ont été laissés de cote,
conformement aux statuts de la Société, qui excluent de ses éditions
de Écritures des notes de ce genre.")
Both are published by British & Foreign Bible Society
But the access seem not public. As this Bible is in public domain, I
guess they will share with us if we ask.
Maybe Michael can help us to how the source of his module and how he
did it? Is it based on DBL? If so which project and what tool do you
use? from USX or USFM export?
For versification, I agree with domcox's remark, we can keep the
original versification. I can convert from our versification (WLC for
OT / NA for NT) to the segond versification with a script.
If we go that way, I guess we need to do those steps:
1. Access DBL, export data (text, notes, titles if present) in USX or
USFM from Paratext
2. Convert to OSIS (better for sword and required because USX and USFM
do not support Strong's number, isn't it ?)
3. Add Strong's numbers (= add <w> tags on words) : for this, I can
work to match exactly the text from the previous OSIS in our database,
and develop a tool to add the last version of our Strong's numbers on it.
4. Update sword module
The last two steps (3. and 4.) will be regularly relaunched, because
we do corrections on Strong's numbers regurlarly. It is still a work
in progress, but I think the work is already not so not too bad.
@Fr Cyrille : We need to exchange by email (not here) if and how we
can help you to add Strong's numbers on your néo-crampon version. Our
initial assignment tool (for Strong's numbers) has gathered dust and
requires french lemmatization and proper versification versions with
the WLC or NA to be effective. Can you send me a mail in French, with
more details (what is this new version? is it close to other French
versions other than Crampon? what is the actual format you use? which
versification?…).
yvand
Le 05/11/2024 à 19:38, domcox a écrit :
yvand <yvand.sw...@gmail.com> writes:
For Segond 1910, the text is in public domain. I used mod2imp to get
the text from the FreSegond (Crosswire) module months
ago. The only changes we made are about versification. Indeed all
our texts use the same versification (based on WLC, for OT =
German in sword), so the text matches the original (hebrew WLC or
greek MT/WH) one and we can easily compare
translations.
As lot of people still read the printed French Segond 1910 or
derivatives, I think it's very important to match the printed
versification. Regular readers generally view Bible software with not
matching versifications as second-rate software.
We have a matching Bible Segond versification, let's keep it that way.
In the past, the FreLSG module had Strong's numbers. If I am correct
(see discussion "Strong numbers for Louis Segond" in
2013/07), we do not have the authorization (but still available in
STEP) so this module has been removed or replaced by
FreSegond module (renamed ?).
In the past, the FreLSG had Strong's numbers. It was upgraded later
to a new version that was horrible, filled with errors
and even containing deuteros that never existed in the Segond Bible.
This is why I made the FreSegond module, it was not an easy task. The
Segond Bible is everywhere on the Web, but it looks like
all sites use the same source, and it's not accurate.
The fraLSG1910eb (F10) module is a more recent one, available in
e-bible repo with headings, WoC and Strong's numbers. It
seems to be a work in progress for Strong's numbers. They are not
available for all books. I compare Strong's numbers
affectations for the first verses of Genesis 1 (see attached
screenshot) but there are errors in this module. On the left this
module, on the right our data
(https://concordance.bible/Sg1910/Gen/1/).
If I remember well, Michael have access to the DBL, so his module is
certainly based on the official Public Domain version,
edited by the Alliance Biblique Française
(https://lire.la-bible.net/bible/LSG/GEN.1)
So I contact all of you (especially actual maintainers of Segond
1910 modules and French users) what would be the
best way of giving our Strong's numbers for Segond 1910 in a sword
module. I don't know who is concerned or interested
that's why I send to the mailing list.
As there is already many existing Segond 1910 sword module, it guess
it would not be a good idea of creating a new one. On
one side, as our text is based from FreSegond module, it might be a
good idea of updating this module with Strong's numbers
(the only difference is versification). On the other hand, the
fraLSG1910eb module offers Strong's numbers but our data seems
more accurate and complete, so it could be interesting of updating
this module. In any case, it would be important to submit
updates regularly for Strong's numbers.
I think the best option for this module should be:
1. Have access to the DBL version
2. Update the current CrossWire module from that source with
footnotes, comments and cross-references, keeping the original
versification
3. Add Strong's numbers
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