And there now appear to be several editions available from the Digital Bible Library (the source for both Michael and my editions.) I don't know from which I started without text checking...
https://thedigitalbiblelibrary.org/whats-inside/ To see the editions, search for "Segond"... there isn't an easy way to share the search result. On Wed, Nov 6, 2024 at 9:26 AM Michael H <cma...@gmail.com> wrote: > And this is the work from Michael Johnson's ebible.org > > https://ebible.org/Scriptures/details.php?id=fraLSG > > On Wed, Nov 6, 2024 at 9:25 AM Michael H <cma...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> FYI: >> >> I made a French Segond which contains much peripheral text (longer >> titles, second titles, cross references, etc.) in addition to the >> scripture. It's based on the UBS source (meaning as far as I know it's >> based on the actual editions printed by the United Bible Society since >> 1910, and not on OCR / Internet editions.) If I remember correctly, my >> specific reason for hosting it was that I removed the Strongs numbering. >> Besides that, I think I renamed some weird markers related to a 4th or 5th >> level of section title in one or more of the books. >> >> Which leads me to think that Michael Johnson probably currently has >> access and hosts an LSG which is a more direct port of the UBS text that >> still contains Strongs numbering, and IS the versification of the original. >> >> (my (for print and reading) edition, in USFM) >> >> https://github.com/BibleCorps/FRA-B-LSG1910-PD-UBS/blob/main/p.sfm/FRA%5BB%5DLSG1910%5BPD%5DUBS-01-GEN.p.sfm >> >> Michael Johnson's LSG edition with Strongs numbering >> >> https://github.com/BibleCorps/FRA-B-LSG1910-PD-UBS/blob/main/p.sfm/FRA%5BB%5DLSG1910%5BPD%5DUBS-01-GEN.p.sfm >> >> If these texts have issues, please mention it here, because the UBS >> should know. >> >> On Wed, Nov 6, 2024 at 7:33 AM Arnaud Vié <unas.zole+a...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I support Cyrille's suggestion of using wikisource as the main source >>> for public domain bibles when we have a good facsimile available. >>> >>> For those not familiar with how wikisource works, the idea is that one >>> can upload a facsimile (in djvu format), and then users can transcribe it >>> into text and correct it page by page, making it easy to compare and >>> potentially fix. >>> See for example this view, on one specific page of the Segond 1910, with >>> the facsimile on the right and the transcribed text on the left : >>> https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:La_Sainte_Bible,_trad._Segond,_ed._1910.djvu/8 >>> Each page can be edited, then reviewed, corrected, and so on - and the >>> wiki setup makes it easy to collaborate. >>> There is even the possibility with dedicated markup to annotate >>> corrections to the original text : when the original text contains an >>> obvious typo that you want to fix, you can edit your fix in while >>> preserving the original text with specific markup, so that the document >>> still keeps track of the original form and what was corrected. >>> >>> Then, proper markup while transcribing the text allows wikisource to >>> group it as proper books and chapters, format the text, integrate notes, >>> etc. >>> See the full bible index here : >>> https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Livre:La_Sainte_Bible,_trad._Segond,_ed._1910.djvu >>> With the index page by page on the left, and the reconstructed text >>> index by book on the right. >>> >>> And then, as long as you ensure that your markup is consistent >>> throughout your transcription of all pages of the same text (eg. titles of >>> the same level are transcribed with the same markup, etc.), it is easy >>> enough with my bible scraper to fetch all the books from wikisource and >>> convert them into USFM or OSIS - as nicely advertised by Cyrille and Matěj >>> above. >>> Which means that if anyone brought some corrections to the wikisource >>> text over time, you can just re-run the scraper to get an updated USFM/OSIS >>> document with these corrections - you don't need to maintain your own >>> document separately. >>> >>> The only question is how you intend to handle Strong's numbers, since >>> they are not present in the original facsimile (at least not the one >>> present on wikisource), and therefore not stored in wikisource. >>> This means my scraper can only output a document without Strong's >>> numbers, and you'd have to inject them in post processing with another tool >>> - but from your message above it seems you already have what you need for >>> this. >>> >>> If you want to try going into this direction, I can easily write a small >>> scraper configuration file for the Segond version currently available on >>> wikisource so that you can try it out. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Arnaud >>> >>> Le mer. 6 nov. 2024 à 09:27, Fr Cyrille <fr.cyri...@tiberiade.be> a >>> écrit : >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Le 06/11/2024 à 00:48, yvand a écrit : >>>> >>>> Thank you all for your answers! >>>> >>>> I think if we can get the text (which is in public domain) from a >>>> well-known bible editor, it is interesting and easier. Currently the >>>> version Segond 1910 exists in different versions (differences in >>>> notes/titles, maybe also in accents Ésaü/Esaü ?) and it is interesting to >>>> know to what it corresponds. We can still share typos upstream or/and use a >>>> patch to fix typos, and update wikisource text. >>>> >>>> If wikisource is the source, we need to know if and what paper edition >>>> it matches exactly. If the reader can refer to a paper edition, it is >>>> interesting. From where will come the text and notes in wikisource? Which >>>> choices for notes/titles? >>>> >>>> Personally, I don't know, but you can check for yourself if the >>>> facsimile >>>> <https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Fichier:La_Sainte_Bible,_trad._Segond,_ed._1910.djvu> >>>> is correct. I know that a contributor has searched long and hard for this >>>> facsimile. I sincerely think that wikisource is the best place. We no >>>> longer need to ask anyone for the right to use the text (even in the public >>>> domain). What's more, Matej beat me to it: Arnaud's tool is absolutely >>>> incredible in its ability to convert to usfm or osis. I invite you to try >>>> it out. What's more, Arnaud is very responsive and saved me a lot of work. >>>> I now have 3 bibles in French on wikisource, the Glaire, the Giguet and the >>>> Crampon. >>>> >>>> Now the text on wikisource only has the titles for some books. It >>>> remains to add the notes/crossreferences. But if you have a text with >>>> notes, it can be quite easy to download the wiki text and add the notes. >>>> >>>> >>>> https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Livre:La_Sainte_Bible,_trad._Segond,_ed._1910.djvu >>>> >>>> Personally, I found domcox's proposition interesting. >>>> >>>> >>>> I connected to DBL and found 2 different projects : >>>> >>>> - "Français Louis Segond 1910" (last archive 2020-12-15) >>>> >>>> - "Louis Segond 1910 Original Corrected (Public Domain version)" (last >>>> archive 2024-08-01) ("La Sainte Bible par Louis Segond 1910. Société >>>> Biblique britannique et étrangere. Texte historique, références corrigées >>>> en 2019." "Ce qu'il y a de nouveau dans l'édition actuelle, ce sont surtout >>>> les parallèles. Là où ces parallèles rendaient superflues les notes de M. >>>> Segond, celles-ci ont été supprimées. De meme, les notes qui exprimaient >>>> une opinion théologique, ou qui présentaient un commentairs sur le texte, >>>> ont été laissés de cote, conformement aux statuts de la Société, qui >>>> excluent de ses éditions de Écritures des notes de ce genre.") >>>> >>>> Both are published by British & Foreign Bible Society >>>> >>>> But the access seem not public. As this Bible is in public domain, I >>>> guess they will share with us if we ask. >>>> >>>> >>>> Maybe Michael can help us to how the source of his module and how he >>>> did it? Is it based on DBL? If so which project and what tool do you use? >>>> from USX or USFM export? >>>> >>>> >>>> For versification, I agree with domcox's remark, we can keep the >>>> original versification. I can convert from our versification (WLC for OT / >>>> NA for NT) to the segond versification with a script. >>>> >>>> >>>> If we go that way, I guess we need to do those steps: >>>> >>>> 1. Access DBL, export data (text, notes, titles if present) in USX or >>>> USFM from Paratext >>>> >>>> 2. Convert to OSIS (better for sword and required because USX and USFM >>>> do not support Strong's number, isn't it ?) >>>> >>>> 3. Add Strong's numbers (= add <w> tags on words) : for this, I can >>>> work to match exactly the text from the previous OSIS in our database, and >>>> develop a tool to add the last version of our Strong's numbers on it. >>>> >>>> 4. Update sword module >>>> >>>> The last two steps (3. and 4.) will be regularly relaunched, because we >>>> do corrections on Strong's numbers regurlarly. It is still a work in >>>> progress, but I think the work is already not so not too bad. >>>> >>>> >>>> @Fr Cyrille : We need to exchange by email (not here) if and how we can >>>> help you to add Strong's numbers on your néo-crampon version. Our initial >>>> assignment tool (for Strong's numbers) has gathered dust and requires >>>> french lemmatization and proper versification versions with the WLC or NA >>>> to be effective. Can you send me a mail in French, with more details (what >>>> is this new version? is it close to other French versions other than >>>> Crampon? what is the actual format you use? which versification?…). >>>> >>>> >>>> yvand >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Le 05/11/2024 à 19:38, domcox a écrit : >>>> >>>> yvand <yvand.sw...@gmail.com> <yvand.sw...@gmail.com> writes: >>>> >>>> >>>> For Segond 1910, the text is in public domain. I used mod2imp to get >>>> the text from the FreSegond (Crosswire) module months >>>> ago. The only changes we made are about versification. Indeed all our >>>> texts use the same versification (based on WLC, for OT = >>>> German in sword), so the text matches the original (hebrew WLC or greek >>>> MT/WH) one and we can easily compare >>>> translations. >>>> >>>> >>>> As lot of people still read the printed French Segond 1910 or >>>> derivatives, I think it's very important to match the printed >>>> versification. Regular readers generally view Bible software with not >>>> matching versifications as second-rate software. >>>> We have a matching Bible Segond versification, let's keep it that way. >>>> >>>> >>>> In the past, the FreLSG module had Strong's numbers. If I am correct >>>> (see discussion "Strong numbers for Louis Segond" in >>>> 2013/07), we do not have the authorization (but still available in >>>> STEP) so this module has been removed or replaced by >>>> FreSegond module (renamed ?). >>>> >>>> >>>> In the past, the FreLSG had Strong's numbers. It was upgraded later to >>>> a new version that was horrible, filled with errors >>>> and even containing deuteros that never existed in the Segond Bible. >>>> >>>> This is why I made the FreSegond module, it was not an easy task. The >>>> Segond Bible is everywhere on the Web, but it looks like >>>> all sites use the same source, and it's not accurate. >>>> >>>> >>>> The fraLSG1910eb (F10) module is a more recent one, available in >>>> e-bible repo with headings, WoC and Strong's numbers. It >>>> seems to be a work in progress for Strong's numbers. They are not >>>> available for all books. I compare Strong's numbers >>>> affectations for the first verses of Genesis 1 (see attached >>>> screenshot) but there are errors in this module. On the left this >>>> module, on the right our data (https://concordance.bible/Sg1910/Gen/1/). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If I remember well, Michael have access to the DBL, so his module is >>>> certainly based on the official Public Domain version, >>>> edited by the Alliance Biblique Française ( >>>> https://lire.la-bible.net/bible/LSG/GEN.1) >>>> >>>> >>>> So I contact all of you (especially actual maintainers of Segond 1910 >>>> modules and French users) what would be the >>>> best way of giving our Strong's numbers for Segond 1910 in a sword >>>> module. I don't know who is concerned or interested >>>> that's why I send to the mailing list. >>>> >>>> As there is already many existing Segond 1910 sword module, it guess it >>>> would not be a good idea of creating a new one. On >>>> one side, as our text is based from FreSegond module, it might be a >>>> good idea of updating this module with Strong's numbers >>>> (the only difference is versification). On the other hand, the >>>> fraLSG1910eb module offers Strong's numbers but our data seems >>>> more accurate and complete, so it could be interesting of updating this >>>> module. In any case, it would be important to submit >>>> updates regularly for Strong's numbers. >>>> >>>> >>>> I think the best option for this module should be: >>>> >>>> 1. Have access to the DBL version >>>> 2. Update the current CrossWire module from that source with footnotes, >>>> comments and cross-references, keeping the original versification >>>> 3. Add Strong's numbers >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sword-devel mailing list: >>>> sword-devel@crosswire.orghttp://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Vous aimez la Bible ? Vous êtes étudiant en théologie ? Utilisez >>>> l'application libre Xiphos <https://xiphos.org/> ou Andbible >>>> <https://andbible.github.io/> et accédez aux textes sources, à des >>>> commentaires, des dictionnaires et beaucoup d'autres fonctionnalités... Me >>>> contacter pour des traductions en français. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org >>>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org >>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>> >>
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