I’m a Return-to-Office worker and we come in to the office to do our in-person meetings on Zoom.
The conference rooms are only used for storage now. Doug From: Nnagain <nnagain-boun...@lists.bufferbloat.net> On Behalf Of David Bray, PhD via Nnagain Sent: Friday, December 15, 2023 5:13 PM To: David Lang <da...@lang.hm> Cc: David Bray, PhD <david.a.b...@gmail.com>; starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net; Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard this time! <nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net> Subject: Re: [NNagain] [Starlink] FCC Upholds Denial of Starlink's RDOF Application CAUTION: This email originated from an external sender! Do not click the links, open attachments or reply, unless you recognize/trust the sender's email address and know the content is safe! This GPT(human)bot was responding to the engineered prompt: >>why do you think telehealth won't work over LEO services? As it's Friday, this GPT(human)bot bandwidth has been fully utilized for the week. Our servers will be back-on line come Monday. Wishing everyone (human or machine) a wonderful weekend ahead! On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 5:10 PM David Lang <da...@lang.hm<mailto:da...@lang.hm>> wrote: I don't disagree with anything that you say below, but the discussion was on the topic of starlink vs fiber, with the person I was responding to claiming that we needed to have women in charge of the Internet companies because of telehealth as well. I'm a remote worker and VERY aware of how limiting video calls are compared to in-person meetings. David Lang On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, David Bray, PhD wrote: > There’s good evidence that physical health can be done over LEO as long as > it isn’t low latency dependent. Of course our illustrious listserv founder > Dave Taht will be quick to point out high latency is also found via > ground-based connections too. > > That said, there is still a lot of research debate on whether mental health > services can be delivered effectively over video in general - regardless of > LEO or not. The concern is two fold: > > * video is suboptimal to detect tiny tells and other signatures of a > patient developing a relationship with a health provider > > * 2D video actually is worse for brainstorming and creative ideation. One > might say so what relative to delivering healthcare, except the evidence > showing that video is worse for brainstorming indicates there’s actually a > continual subconscious confusion when folks do video calls prompted by the > body trying to discern if the one or more disembodied heads are friend or > foe. Since we cannot see a person’s hands and body movements we don’t know > if they’re coming to attack us or not. > > So future generations may look back and decide that with video calls we > were literally messing with our brains’ own natural biological processes? > > > On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 16:42 David Lang via Nnagain < > nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net>> wrote: > >> why do you think telehealth won't work over LEO services? >> >> I've used it personally. >> >> Even if women use telehealth more than men, that doesn't say that women >> have any >> particular advantage in moving the bits around that make telehealth >> possible. >> >> David Lang >> >> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, rjmcmahon wrote: >> >>> Women are the primary users and providers of telehealth services. They >> are >>> using broadband to care for our population. They also run most of the >>> addiction services across our country, whatever the addiction may be. So >>> gender actually matters. Ask them as providers. Telehealth doesn't work >> over >>> LEO (nor does it matter much for men on boats.) Same for distance >> learning. >>> >>> >> https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/women-more-likely-telehealth-patients-providers-covid-19-pandemic/608153/ >>> >>> As Washington considers which virtual care flexibilities should remain >> in >>> place post-COVID-19, experts are flagging that paring back telehealth >> access >>> and affordability will disproportionately affect women, even as a >> growing >>> share of startups emerge to address women’s unique health needs. >>> >>> While women are more likely than men to visit doctors and consume >> healthcare >>> services in general, telehealth seems to be uniquely attractive to women. >>> >>> Bob >>>> who exactly do you think is calling for there to be no Internet >>>> access? and what in the world does the sex of individuals have to do >>>> with shipping bits around? >>>> >>>> Starlink (and hopefully it's future competitors) provides a way to get >>>> Internet service to everyone without having to run fiber to every >>>> house. >>>> >>>> As for the parallels with rural electrification, if that problem were >>>> to be faced today, would the right answer be massive public agencies >>>> to build and run miles of wire from massive central power plants? or >>>> would the right answer be solar + batteries in individual houses for >>>> the most rural folks, with small modular reactors to power the larger >>>> population areas? >>>> >>>> Just because there was only one way to achieve a goal in the past >>>> doesn't mean that approach is the best thing to do today. >>>> >>>> David Lang >>>> >>>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, rjmcmahon wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> We're trying to modernize America. LBJ helped do it for electricity >>>>> decades ago. It's our turn to step up to the plate. Tele-health and >>>>> distance learning requires us to do so. There is so much to follow. >>>>> >>>>> A reminder what many women went through before LBJ showed up. I'm >>>>> skeptical a patriarchy under Musk is even close to capable. We >> probably >>>>> need a woman to lead us, or at least motivate us to do our best work >> for >>>>> our country and to be an example to the world. >>>>> >>>>> A Hill Country farm wife had to do her chores even if she was ill – no >>>>> matter how ill. Because Hill Country women were too poor to afford >> proper >>>>> medical care they often suffered perineal tears in childbirth. During >> the >>>>> 1930s, the federal government sent physicians to examine a sampling of >>>>> Hill Country women. The doctors found that, out of 275 women, 158 had >>>>> perineal tears. Many of them, the team of gynecologists reported, were >>>>> third-degree tears, “tears so bad that it is difficult to see how they >>>>> stand on their feet.” But they were standing on their feet, and doing >> all >>>>> the chores that Hill Country wives had always done – hauling the >> water, >>>>> hauling the wood, canning, washing, ironing, helping with the >> shearing, >>>>> the plowing and the picking. >>>>> >>>>> Because there was no electricity. >>>>> >>>>> Bob >>>>>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, Sebastian Moeller via Starlink wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Frantisek, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Dec 15, 2023, at 13:46, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain >>>>>>>> <nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thus, technically speaking, one would like the advantages of satcom >>>>>>>> such as starlink, to be at least 5gbit/s in 10 years time, to >> overcome >>>>>>>> the 'tangled fiber' problem. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No, not really. Starlink was about to address the issue of digital >>>>>>>> divide - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I beg to differ. Starlink is a commercial enterprise with the goal >> to >>>>>>> make a profit by offering (usable) internet access essentially >>>>>>> everywhere; it is not as far as I can tell an attempt at >> specifically >>>>>>> reducing the digital divide (were often an important factor is not >>>>>>> necessarily location but financial means). >>>>>> >>>>>> Every Inernet company " commercial enterprise with the goal to make a >>>>>> profit by offering (usable) internet" don't dismiss a company because >>>>>> of that. Starlink (and the other Satellite ISPs) all exist to service >>>>>> people who can't use traditional wired infrastructure >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> delivering internet to those 640k locations, where there is >> literally >>>>>>>> none today. Fiber will NEVER get there. And it will get there, it >> will >>>>>>>> be like 10 years down the road. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is IHO the wrong approach to take. The goal needs to be a >>>>>>> universal FTTH access network (with the exception of extreme >> locations, >>>>>>> no need to pull fiber up to the highest Bivouac shelter on Mt. >> Whitney). >>>>>>> And f that takes a decade or two, so be it, this is infrastructure >> that >>>>>>> will keep on helping for many decades once rolled-out. However given >>>>>>> that time frame one should consider work-arounds for the interim >> period. >>>>>>> I would have naively thought starlink would qualify for that from a >>>>>>> technical perspective, but then the FCC documents actually >> discussion >>>>>>> requirements and how they were or were not met/promised by starlink >> was >>>>>>> mostly redacted. >>>>>> >>>>>> what do you consider 'extreme locations'? how long a run between >>>>>> houses is 'too far'? >>>>>> >>>>>> we've seen the failure of commercial fiber monopolies in cities with >>>>>> housing density of several houses per acre (and even where there are >>>>>> apartment complexes there as well) because it's not profitable enough. >>>>>> When you get into areas where it's 'how many acres per house' the cost >>>>>> of running FTTH gets very high. I don't think this is the majority of >>>>>> the population of the US any longer (but I don't know for sure), but >>>>>> it's very clearly the majority of the area of the US. And once you get >>>>>> out of the major metro areas, even getting fiber to every town or >>>>>> village becomes a major undertaking. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is running fiber 30 miles to support a village of 700 people an >>>>>> 'extreme location'? let me introduce you to Vermontville MI >>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermontville,_Michigan which is less >>>>>> than an hours drive from the state capitol. >>>>>> >>>>>> David Lang >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Nnagain mailing list >>>>>> nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net> >>>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Nnagain mailing list >> nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >> >
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