On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 2:13 PM David Bray, PhD via Nnagain <nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > > This GPT(human)bot was responding to the engineered prompt: >>why do you > think telehealth won't work over LEO services? > > As it's Friday, this GPT(human)bot bandwidth has been fully utilized for the > week. Our servers will be back-on line come Monday. > > Wishing everyone (human or machine) a wonderful weekend ahead!
Sometimes the best way to value something is to get away from it for a while. I recommend everybody log off... maybe take a walk in the park, see some friends, make some music, visit a library, play golf, go fishing, spend time with your loved ones, fire up a card game... stop with the technology for a while and re-engage your other senses. The internet will still be here when you get back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMoPR2IA2Uk > > On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 5:10 PM David Lang <da...@lang.hm> wrote: >> >> I don't disagree with anything that you say below, but the discussion was on >> the >> topic of starlink vs fiber, with the person I was responding to claiming >> that we >> needed to have women in charge of the Internet companies because of >> telehealth >> as well. >> >> I'm a remote worker and VERY aware of how limiting video calls are compared >> to >> in-person meetings. >> >> David Lang >> >> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, David Bray, PhD wrote: >> >> > There’s good evidence that physical health can be done over LEO as long as >> > it isn’t low latency dependent. Of course our illustrious listserv founder >> > Dave Taht will be quick to point out high latency is also found via >> > ground-based connections too. >> > >> > That said, there is still a lot of research debate on whether mental health >> > services can be delivered effectively over video in general - regardless of >> > LEO or not. The concern is two fold: >> > >> > * video is suboptimal to detect tiny tells and other signatures of a >> > patient developing a relationship with a health provider >> > >> > * 2D video actually is worse for brainstorming and creative ideation. One >> > might say so what relative to delivering healthcare, except the evidence >> > showing that video is worse for brainstorming indicates there’s actually a >> > continual subconscious confusion when folks do video calls prompted by the >> > body trying to discern if the one or more disembodied heads are friend or >> > foe. Since we cannot see a person’s hands and body movements we don’t know >> > if they’re coming to attack us or not. >> > >> > So future generations may look back and decide that with video calls we >> > were literally messing with our brains’ own natural biological processes? >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 16:42 David Lang via Nnagain < >> > nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >> > >> >> why do you think telehealth won't work over LEO services? >> >> >> >> I've used it personally. >> >> >> >> Even if women use telehealth more than men, that doesn't say that women >> >> have any >> >> particular advantage in moving the bits around that make telehealth >> >> possible. >> >> >> >> David Lang >> >> >> >> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, rjmcmahon wrote: >> >> >> >>> Women are the primary users and providers of telehealth services. They >> >> are >> >>> using broadband to care for our population. They also run most of the >> >>> addiction services across our country, whatever the addiction may be. So >> >>> gender actually matters. Ask them as providers. Telehealth doesn't work >> >> over >> >>> LEO (nor does it matter much for men on boats.) Same for distance >> >> learning. >> >>> >> >>> >> >> https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/women-more-likely-telehealth-patients-providers-covid-19-pandemic/608153/ >> >>> >> >>> As Washington considers which virtual care flexibilities should remain >> >> in >> >>> place post-COVID-19, experts are flagging that paring back telehealth >> >> access >> >>> and affordability will disproportionately affect women, even as a >> >> growing >> >>> share of startups emerge to address women’s unique health needs. >> >>> >> >>> While women are more likely than men to visit doctors and consume >> >> healthcare >> >>> services in general, telehealth seems to be uniquely attractive to women. >> >>> >> >>> Bob >> >>>> who exactly do you think is calling for there to be no Internet >> >>>> access? and what in the world does the sex of individuals have to do >> >>>> with shipping bits around? >> >>>> >> >>>> Starlink (and hopefully it's future competitors) provides a way to get >> >>>> Internet service to everyone without having to run fiber to every >> >>>> house. >> >>>> >> >>>> As for the parallels with rural electrification, if that problem were >> >>>> to be faced today, would the right answer be massive public agencies >> >>>> to build and run miles of wire from massive central power plants? or >> >>>> would the right answer be solar + batteries in individual houses for >> >>>> the most rural folks, with small modular reactors to power the larger >> >>>> population areas? >> >>>> >> >>>> Just because there was only one way to achieve a goal in the past >> >>>> doesn't mean that approach is the best thing to do today. >> >>>> >> >>>> David Lang >> >>>> >> >>>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, rjmcmahon wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Hi All, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> We're trying to modernize America. LBJ helped do it for electricity >> >>>>> decades ago. It's our turn to step up to the plate. Tele-health and >> >>>>> distance learning requires us to do so. There is so much to follow. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> A reminder what many women went through before LBJ showed up. I'm >> >>>>> skeptical a patriarchy under Musk is even close to capable. We >> >> probably >> >>>>> need a woman to lead us, or at least motivate us to do our best work >> >> for >> >>>>> our country and to be an example to the world. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> A Hill Country farm wife had to do her chores even if she was ill – no >> >>>>> matter how ill. Because Hill Country women were too poor to afford >> >> proper >> >>>>> medical care they often suffered perineal tears in childbirth. During >> >> the >> >>>>> 1930s, the federal government sent physicians to examine a sampling of >> >>>>> Hill Country women. The doctors found that, out of 275 women, 158 had >> >>>>> perineal tears. Many of them, the team of gynecologists reported, were >> >>>>> third-degree tears, “tears so bad that it is difficult to see how they >> >>>>> stand on their feet.” But they were standing on their feet, and doing >> >> all >> >>>>> the chores that Hill Country wives had always done – hauling the >> >> water, >> >>>>> hauling the wood, canning, washing, ironing, helping with the >> >> shearing, >> >>>>> the plowing and the picking. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Because there was no electricity. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Bob >> >>>>>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, Sebastian Moeller via Starlink wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Hi Frantisek, >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> On Dec 15, 2023, at 13:46, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain >> >>>>>>>> <nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Thus, technically speaking, one would like the advantages of satcom >> >>>>>>>> such as starlink, to be at least 5gbit/s in 10 years time, to >> >> overcome >> >>>>>>>> the 'tangled fiber' problem. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> No, not really. Starlink was about to address the issue of digital >> >>>>>>>> divide - >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> I beg to differ. Starlink is a commercial enterprise with the goal >> >> to >> >>>>>>> make a profit by offering (usable) internet access essentially >> >>>>>>> everywhere; it is not as far as I can tell an attempt at >> >> specifically >> >>>>>>> reducing the digital divide (were often an important factor is not >> >>>>>>> necessarily location but financial means). >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Every Inernet company " commercial enterprise with the goal to make a >> >>>>>> profit by offering (usable) internet" don't dismiss a company because >> >>>>>> of that. Starlink (and the other Satellite ISPs) all exist to service >> >>>>>> people who can't use traditional wired infrastructure >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> delivering internet to those 640k locations, where there is >> >> literally >> >>>>>>>> none today. Fiber will NEVER get there. And it will get there, it >> >> will >> >>>>>>>> be like 10 years down the road. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> This is IHO the wrong approach to take. The goal needs to be a >> >>>>>>> universal FTTH access network (with the exception of extreme >> >> locations, >> >>>>>>> no need to pull fiber up to the highest Bivouac shelter on Mt. >> >> Whitney). >> >>>>>>> And f that takes a decade or two, so be it, this is infrastructure >> >> that >> >>>>>>> will keep on helping for many decades once rolled-out. However given >> >>>>>>> that time frame one should consider work-arounds for the interim >> >> period. >> >>>>>>> I would have naively thought starlink would qualify for that from a >> >>>>>>> technical perspective, but then the FCC documents actually >> >> discussion >> >>>>>>> requirements and how they were or were not met/promised by starlink >> >> was >> >>>>>>> mostly redacted. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> what do you consider 'extreme locations'? how long a run between >> >>>>>> houses is 'too far'? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> we've seen the failure of commercial fiber monopolies in cities with >> >>>>>> housing density of several houses per acre (and even where there are >> >>>>>> apartment complexes there as well) because it's not profitable enough. >> >>>>>> When you get into areas where it's 'how many acres per house' the cost >> >>>>>> of running FTTH gets very high. I don't think this is the majority of >> >>>>>> the population of the US any longer (but I don't know for sure), but >> >>>>>> it's very clearly the majority of the area of the US. And once you get >> >>>>>> out of the major metro areas, even getting fiber to every town or >> >>>>>> village becomes a major undertaking. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Is running fiber 30 miles to support a village of 700 people an >> >>>>>> 'extreme location'? let me introduce you to Vermontville MI >> >>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermontville,_Michigan which is less >> >>>>>> than an hours drive from the state capitol. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> David Lang >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> Nnagain mailing list >> >>>>>> nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net >> >>>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >> >>>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> Nnagain mailing list >> >> nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net >> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain -- :( My old R&D campus is up for sale: https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos _______________________________________________ Starlink mailing list Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
