Keith Dowell wrote: > I made this point on a mimedefang list. Some people didn't really > like it.
I like your point but I have some minor points of interest. > > Computers are too complicated for people to be responsible some said. > > So I tried equating it to maintaining your car in that, if your car > smokes and causes pollution - it is NOT the manufacturers > responsibility to come fix your car. It's your responsibility to take > it to the nearest mechanic. If it smokes too much the police might > just have to remove you from the road for other peoples safety. Vehicles come with manuals which explain when to service your vehicle. PC's do not come with such reading material. Vehicles show signs of problems, by noises or not working at all. Zombie infected computers do not show warning signs of problems, so how are people supposed to know something is wrong? I like your analogy but I'm on the other side of the fence. Which is more likely to happen, 1,000,000 users learn about security or 1 Network Admin Department makes a change to protect all 1,000,000 customers. As someone pointed out before, I am all for allowing those who want full access to have full access. I just feel those who do not know better should be protected. > What I got in return to that was - Yeah sure, but doesn't relate. Auto > manufacturers don't put out buggy cars like microsoft puts out buggy > software. Sure they do, All Auto manufactures produce problematic vehicles, and when they discover the problem they send out a "Recall" If the problem is severe they send out an emergency recall. > > Hmm... good point - but doesn't microsoft put out these things called > patches? Is it not the users responsibility to maintain their software > (vehicle) but obtaining these patches (tune up). Auto manufactures have something called "Recalls" when a serious problem is found in their vehicle, the dealer sends a message to bring the car in for service. The majority of the time the problem is fixed for free. It's still the responsibilty of the user to follow up and get the fix applied. PC's do not have recalls. If PC's had something like this, we would not have this problem. Imagine if Dell called you and said, "Keith, we found a serious problem in that new server we just sold you, please apply Updates ASAP". That might make a difference but at the cost of more people working for the computer manufactures. Sure we have windows update, but how many home users go to that site? > > I don't see how this doesn't equate. It's the same friggin thing. If > you are going to put yourself on the internet then you should be held > accountable for what happens to your computer. I agree the user should be more responsible, but this will never happen. We are more likely to change the providers ways before changing the ways of millions of people across the world. > It isn't > microsoft/linux 's responsibility to educate users. It's their own > responsibility to educate themselves or suffer the consequences. You > have to think of this in terms of the dsl/cable connections. Everyone > is now "always on" which in essence makes them like a little open > node on the internet. The government is NOT responsible, NOR the ISP, One of the biggest points I am trying to make is that many large ISPs are receiving 100s or 1000s of abuse reports about this problem and we don't see things getting any better. If they take a stand a set a good example for all the smaller ISP's we would be in better shape. I'm expecting flame for this but I'm thinking a majority of the spam problem we have today is the fault of the end user who does not secure their system. I can't expect every Cable / DSL customer to learn about security and secure their systems but I am hoping the providers will see this problem from the other side of the fense. Be more pro-active. > NOR the software manufacturer for maintaining safety of these little > nodes. I'm sorry, but I will not see this any other way. The > government doesn't know their head from their ass as far as the > internet, the ISP should only be responsible for shutting the nodes > down originating from their own network, But they DO not Take responsiblity at least the Large ones do not. That's the whole purpose of my rant. > and the software > manufacturers should make patches available when they fix bugs. The > USER is/SHOULD BE held responsible to secure, maintain, upgrade, etc > etc their little node. Too complicated? Then they don't need to be on > the net all the time (or period for that matter as far as I'm > concerned). Or they need to hire a mechanic "PC-TECH". I find it easier to go after 1 ISP than 1 million ignorant users. > All this really becomes is a whole debate of how responsible should a > user be? If the END users were responsible, this problem would not exist and spammers would most likely try to find open relays like they used to in the 90s. That's why I'm bringing up the topic, the majority of end users are not educated on the topic of security and if you check their ISP's website you are unlikely to find information to help you. <snip> > > If you're stupid and don't read the "owners manual" for your car, > never change the oil, wear your tires bald, never change the > windshield wipers, and people force you to quit driving the vehicle, > it's your OWN fault. Correct but what if your manual did not explain that you need to update (tuneup) your PC to keep it safe. So if my manual doesn't say to do this, how am I supposed to know? > > If you don't RTFM, do a little research, (my god - it is NOT THAT > FRIGGIN HARD) If it was not why don't the millions of people do it? > get the basics of owning a computer, and get your > little node shut down because your a friggin idiot spewing crap out > on the net, because your computers infected, because it got hacked, > because you had no protection, etc etc, yadda, yadda - then it's your > OWN fault. Can you help to bring all these people up on lawsuit? > > Think logically here folks. > I try to! ------------------------------------------------------- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn _______________________________________________ Spamassassin-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/spamassassin-talk
