You would just need a pod converter to process it.
And you could probably whip that up yourself in no time.
--
John Porter
By pressing down a special key It plays a little melody
a converter to handle L, IMG, etc., could be written.
> So people
> stick to Plain Old POD, sans fancy =for business, 90% of the time.
Yes - as it was meant to be.
--
John Porter
By pressing down a special key It plays a little melody
ieve it will,
and it won't be difficult -- nothing that would make XML seem like an
attractive alternative.
--
John Porter
By pressing down a special key It plays a little melody
having parens.
Other punctiation is available. One of the improvements
ML makes over Lisp is the use of different bracketers to
signify semantically different kinds of lists.
--
John Porter
Aus des Weltalls ferne funken Radiosterne.
a concept.
Sounds to me like the real issue is that writing pod converters is
harder than it ought to be (rather like the situation with XS).
I think most people don't realize that they can write a converter
if they want to.
--
John Porter
By pressing down a special key It plays a little melody
n of what the language allows vs. what it requires.
Perl is nice because it allows you to write in (nearly) any style you
want -- lots of parens, no whitespace... Requiring the use of parens
is about as un-perl-like as requiring indentation to denote blocks.
--
John Porter
Aus des Weltalls ferne funken Radiosterne.
e over
the years; only the supporting tools have been maturing, most notably
the Pod::Parser module.
--
John Porter
Jetzt schalten wir das Radio an. Aus dem Lautsprecher klingt es dann...
rays?
How do you set an attribute on a global variable?
--
John Porter
Jetzt schalten wir das Radio an. Aus dem Lautsprecher klingt es dann...
r the link, Peter. I have now checked out Dia, and I'm not
enthusiastic about it. It seems to be a good start, but maturity is
a long way off. Not only that, but it is cumbersome (imho) to set up.
I still think I'd rather see a java or web-based solution.
--
John Porter
Jeremy Howard wrote:
>
> I haven't got around to RFCing the more generic version (that all attributes
> are inherited inside nested data types), but that would certainly be a nice
> approach.
Not to confuse, let's call it cascading instead of inheritance.
--
John Porter
d in support of their
> arguments is not lost on other non-US members of this list.
Not to mention the ironies in that the rebellion was fomented, in
large part, by committees, and that our supreme ruling document was
drafted and approved by committees -- NOT by an autocrat, and NOT by
the at-large populace.
--
John Porter
Philip Newton wrote:
> If the pod (or whatever) is in a
> separate file, this advantage is lost.
Of course; I'd *never* say that there should be NO documentation
in the perl code file. That would be absurd.
--
John Porter
By pressing down a special key It plays a little melody
you can expect to need parens
sometimes.
--
John Porter
Jetzt schalten wir das Radio an. Aus dem Lautsprecher klingt es dann...
Tom Christiansen wrote:
>
> Perl's use of @ISA is beautiful.
>
> use base is, or can be, pretty silly --
> think pseudohashes, just for one.
I suppose you diddle @INC directly, Tom,
instead of use'ing lib?
--
John Porter
numbers, such that split returns a list of strings each as
>long as the corresponding number.
@strings = do { my $re = join '', map { "(.{$_})" } @lengths; /$re/ };
--
John Porter
Nathan Torkington wrote:
> won't be able to
> make many conclusive pronouncements in his talk.
>
> I'll make sure his talk is available for all to read once it's given.
Uh, what talk is that?
--
John Porter
[Warning - mailing list violently altered!]
John Carter wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, John Porter wrote:
>
> > As a concrete example, perl's data structures are always
> > managed in memory; while things like sort and merge have
> > been written to utilize o
crafted LR(k) monstrosity.
This is a case of me agreeing with Simon 1000%.
I was going to just let it go by, but I thought it might
be nice to add my for a change.
--
John Porter
Jerrad Pierce wrote:
>
> What about Hexane? Arthropod (or some insect)?
Hmmm "anthracite" ?
--
John Porter
Simon Cozens wrote:
>
> We believe that
> the world-turning program was rewritten in Perl in 1997.
We do? Huh. What else do we believe?
--
John Porter
bly *implement* perl in Ada, of course.
--
John Porter
Standard emoticons apply.
Uri Guttman wrote:
> if i want TIL and lose builtin overloading, that is
> a fine tradeoff to me.
No, no, no! That is one of the things that absolutely must be
fixed in the next major version of Perl!
--
John Porter
Garrett Goebel wrote:
>
> I'm sure you won't be surprised by this, but I recall John
> Porter as being a C-- fan. Now why is he being mysteriously silent?
Nope, wasn't me. Never heard of it until someone brought it up earlier.
I do admit, it sounds intriguing.
>
Garrett Goebel wrote:
> eval { prototype "CORE::$func" };
Strangely, prototype() "works" in 5.004_04, but does not throw
the exception for non-existent functions.
--
John Porter
t
> the truest OOP language in existence, but it has a tiny user base.
But it's NOT because people wouldn't like to program in Eiffel, and
it's not because Eiffel isn't an excellent solution language.
It's because Eiffel is an expensive proprietary product.
--
John Porter
Simon Cozens wrote:
>
> On the whole, driving a spike between language and internals by giving them
> separate lists was not a good idea.
Nominally. But how many internals experts actually subscribed to
the one and not the other?
--
John Porter
mming languages. And IIRC,
Java was invoked several times. :-)
--
John Porter
to blame for
> it. Perl is _lousy_ for those tasks.
I disagree. The vendor can *always* be blamed. :-)
--
John Porter
would
> certainly be seriously dissatisfied with perl, they're as close to
> opposite languages as I can think of, in many ways.
Nope, not quite the same.
--
John Porter
Fwiw:
BSDI BSD/OS 4.0.1 .../GENERIC i386
gcc version 2.7.2.1
-O3 none
GOTO1.739.31
SWITCH 7.4019.81
Everything else 12.62 15.24
--
John Porter
David Grove wrote:
>
> "Issues should be faced rather than avoided by
> attacking the person who points them out."
Maybe; but that doesn't apply to non-issues being paraded as issues.
--
John Porter
remen.de/software/elk/
--
John Porter
oups
> as a collective, general election of a core team was shot down
We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week...
Hope you get my point.
--
John Porter
John van V wrote:
>
> My second desire is to build perl6 purely w/ perl tools/servers,
> and then wholly with perl6 as soon as it can stand on its own.
> That way if there are any problems the core team would be the
> first to know about it ;)
--
John Porter
"Perl is my dogfood."
Dan Sugalski wrote:
> You forgot:
> * Secret vote of the Perl Cabal...
> ;-)
And also:
* Behind-the-scenes string-pulling by corporate interests.
--
John Porter
* the Triads
Do you mean:
* The Trilateral Commission
> * the Freemasons
And/Or:
* The OTO
> * the Illuminati
Sure. And what about:
* The Drug Cartels
* The Media
* Joggers :-)
--
John Porter
A cop knelt and kissed the feet of a priest,
and a
f that,
a logical re-write (or a re-design/re-write, of the sort we're undertaking)
could.
--
John Porter
I saw the final vicar make confession to a dancer
We stood upon the bridge at dawn and the dancer kissed my cancer
t a crash. You
would think, in this day and age...
Btw, fwiw, I think that if C is really considered a front
runner, I would throw in my lot with C++ instead. It's nearly
as portable, nearly as fast, and WAY WAY BETTER to code in.
--
John Porter
I saw the final vicar
make
s that.
Almost. You're potentially taking away Perl6, which is vaporware.
I wonder: In what order will the following exist on Handheld Device
Foo:
- C
- C++
- Java
- Perl6
--
John Porter
Simon Cozens wrote:
>
> Great. When it comes down to it, what are you doing here?
Excellent question.
--
John Porter
Simon Cozens wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 11:22:35AM -0500, John Porter wrote:
> > [C++]
>
> > It's nearly as portable,
>
> Uhm. Is this actually true?
I don't know. Sounds reasonable! :-)
Aside from lame-o solutions like C-front and cross-compiling
The Backwards Compatibility Beast rears its slathering, kerotic heads...
--
John Porter
I saw the final vicar
make confession to a dancer
We stood upon the bridge at dawn
and the dancer kissed my cancer
David L. Nicol wrote:
>
> Is there a perl6 sort committee yet? AFter reading Cawley's
> method here, I wonder if using it we could make radix-sorts the
> default sort method.
Perl6 ought to support pluggable sort algorithms, just as Perl
now supports pluggable comparison fun
Nathan Torkington wrote:
>
> By "pluggable" you mean that sort() should be overridable?
use D::Oh s s\?s.s;
--
John Porter
What would Gabrielle do?
sible for perl
intrinsics to use disk buffers whenever necessary, globally.
(*If the mail archives were searchable, I'd give an actual reference.)
--
John Porter
What would Gabrielle do?
Dan Sugalski wrote:
>
>use sort qw(radix_sort);
>sort \&radix_sort @data;
Isn't that the slot where the comparison function goes?
Maybe something more like this:
use sort::radix_sort;
sort @data; # magically uses radix_sort instead of default.
--
John Porter
What would Gabrielle do?
hms.
> (I pronounced 5.005_03 as "five double-aught five oh three".)
That's not pedantic, that's anal. I say "five five three".
ObPerl:
use Lingua::EN::Numbers;
sub infix_units {
my( $n, $u ) = $_[0] =~ /([.\d]+)\s*(\w+)/;
my $s = Lingua::EN::Numbers->new($n)->get_string;
$s =~ s/point/$u/g;
$s
}
print infix_units( "45.60 Pounds" );
--
John Porter
What would Gabrielle do?
t's what the RFC proposes, at the language
level. I don't see where you've offered an alternative to
defining the two separately.
--
John Porter
Took away his vocal, put him in a blackhole,
blocking up the entrance with tar and muck
is like an array of Object
in Java, or an array of void* in C.
Like jwz said, if only they had done TRT and made intrinsics
inherit (or appear to) from Object, it wouldn't be an issue
in Java either.
--
John Porter
So take a pointed stick and touch Piggy's eyes
He's gonna turn and leave you a big surprise
's "how".
Apparently chop() is specialized internally to detect the
hashness of its argument, in a way that can't be expressed
by a prototype.
--
John Porter
So take a pointed stick and touch Piggy's eyes
He's gonna turn and leave you a big surprise
y best-reasonably-available.)
The issue of B is I outside perl's bailiwick.
--
John Porter
compatible with perl5,
> but that's not an invitation to break everything that can be broken.
Not changing things (for the better) in the name of not "breaking"
things is a non-starting argument. "Perl should remain Perl" (once
known as RFC 0) is bogus, because it'
Simon Cozens wrote:
> John Porter wrote:
> > But you need to remember it anyway, so remembering it for time() is
> > no added burden.
>
> Uhm. NO! Remembering that $x+1 things have changed is an "added burden"
> over remembering that $x things have changed.
t perpetuated; preserving compatibility
where possible is an adjunct benefit.
Of course, we've been around this before; too bad we
have to revisit it from time to time.
--
John Porter
A pessimist says the CPU is 50% utilized.
An optimist says the CPU is 50% unutilized.
A realist says the network is the bottleneck.
;s only a few places it can reasonably be expected
to come from. Vs. calling something like time(), which can only
come from someplace that defines it I (or
whatever is the current default namespace) , including by export
from some other namespace.
--
John Porter
A pessimist says the CPU is 50% uti
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> John Porter wrote:
> >
> > we would only implement changes that add something desirable.
>
> How does removing time() add something desirable?
I'm not motivated to give an answer to that, because
I'm not arguing in favor of removing time().
--
John Porter
And, btw, perhaps we need to provide a way to un-load a loaded
definition. This would be needed for, eg., migratory code.
Or even just long-lived perl processes like mod_perl.
--
John Porter
A pessimist says the CPU is 50% utilized.
An optimist says the CPU is 50% unutilized.
A realist says the network is the bottleneck.
And isn't this rather off-topic for this list?
Sounds more like an internals thing...
--
John Porter
redo; # which is shorthand for:
redo foo; # like goto &foo;
}
Proposals along these lines came up in the thread "$a in @b",
in the subsequent discussion of RFC 199, and probably in other
threads.
--
John Porter
A pessimist says the CPU i
ere return() puts its
args anyway. In fact, shouldn't it be @__ ?
Too bad it's too late to write an RFC...
--
John Porter
A pessimist says the CPU is 50% utilized.
An optimist says the CPU is 50% unutilized.
A realist says the network is the bottleneck.
, probably Modula (/Modula3/Oberon) provide a
better pattern to follow.
--
John Porter
You can't keep Perl6 Perl5.
John Porter wrote:
> Well, Java has interfaces, but I'm pretty sure that's not
> where we want to go; they're very OO-specific.
And Corba likewise.
--
John Porter
p with a solution to this problem, please send an
email to ICANN.
--
John Porter
You can't keep Perl6 Perl5.
y be numbers, since they are not inherently
ordered. I could number *mine* jdp1, jdp1_1, etc., if I want...
--
John Porter
You can't keep Perl6 Perl5.
lly give us all those array operations
for the list. In order to C< push @^R >, there has to be a data
structure there that supports the push operator. And if that is
going to be the case, then I don't see the point in all this over
having your own array variable and returning that when yo
apability can be seen in languages like Modula.
--
John Porter
You can't keep Perl6 Perl5.
Simon Cozens wrote:
> Assigning to barewords? Blurgh. At the
> very least, make @subname and $subname special lexicals.
Or eliminate $ and @ from the language. :-) or rather :-/.
--
John Porter
Ann wenno haddum billizac...
rl -we 'push @^R, 42'
Type of arg 1 to push must be array (not list alias) at -e line 1, at EOF
Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors.
--
John Porter
Ann wenno haddum billizac...
n the sub visible in the post handler?
(Of course I realize *F does not illustrate this...)
--
John Porter
Ann wenno haddum billizac...
it pertains, in much the same way that BEGIN and END blocks
reside inside the file to which they pertain.
So:
sub readit {
open F, "< $f" or die "$f: $!";
;
catch { ... }
end { close F }
}
--
John Porter
You can't keep Perl6 Perl5.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> use End;
>
> { my $foo = end {print "Leaving the block\n"};
> ...
> last; # Prints "Leaving the block\n".
> ...
> }
Yep, that's *perfect*, for a proof of concept.
--
John Porter
n at sub exit,
even when appended to return():
return always close F; # statement modifier?
would do the wrong thing.
I wonder if it shouldn't rather be
return ;
always { close F } # a catchy block.
--
John Porter
You can't keep Perl6 Perl5.
Simon Cozens wrote:
>
> Whether it's a good idea or a bad idea is largely irrelevant; the
> purpose of -language is to decide whether or not it should be possible.
I think historically this has not been the case.
But I suppose we could change the purpose of -language mid-strea
be shoved inside
rather than dangling off the end. JMHO.
--
John Porter
Johan Vromans wrote:
>
> Would the POST be executed if the open fails? Why? Why not?
Of course. It's a post-handler on the sub.
> All that POST and such do, is obfuscate the flow of control.
No more so than contine{} on a loop, or END{} in a file, or DESTROY{}
in a class.
-
ays { ... } }
> What about the try/finally cases? It's pretty clear, IMHO,
> that the catch and finally clauses apply to the try statement,
There is no try, there is only do. :-)
> previous blocks are critical, because under various circumstances
> blocks need to be triggered by exc
};
sub foo {
bar();
}
sub bar {
die $barney;
}
All three of these blocks are "subject to non-local control flow rules",
including the body of foo.
--
John Porter
ry blocks (by adding the
approprate decoration) and some aren't.
But I don't see the advantage of it if any and every block is
implicitly a try block.
--
John Porter
seems rather appropriate
> here.
Right. I'm particularly concerned about lexical variables;
a post block ought to have scope to the my vars in the block
to which it pertains. Sticking it inside lexically makes this
clear.
--
John Porter
ntage in having a keyword to indicate the
> closure, because the variable is actually stored together with the sub
> reference somehow, and having a keyword to indicate that would make it
> explicit.
Why should it be explicit? What ambiguity needs to be cleared up?
I like the fact that perl handles the grotty details for me.
--
John Porter
You can't keep Perl6 Perl5.
ivation record
for the file (ignoring threads); lexicals in the file are known at
compile time, and so are visible to the END block.
Lambdas deserve post blocks too. :-)
--
John Porter
You can't keep Perl6 Perl5.
Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
> >
> > (for those of you who didn't get the reference)
>
> Well, I certainly heard the reference before even hearing of Perl or Tom...
I only ever saw it with his name on it.
So if he didn't coin it, then I think he "appropriated" it...
--
John Porter
Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
>
> There isn't a software problem another abstraction layer can't fix...
"...except the problem of too many layers of abstraction". tchrist
(for those of you who didn't get the reference)
--
John Porter
leged downside of having a flexible
solution.
--
John Porter
r him. We do a lot
of talk, but his words are the only ones that matter in the end."
Somehow I don't think this is how it was meant to be.
--
John Porter
> James Mastros wrote:
>
> >"It isn't possible to AUTOLOAD DESTROY." --perlmem(6)
I'm not sure what that means. Certainly AUTOLOAD gets
called if DESTROY is called but not defined ... just
like any other method.
--
John Porter
. Perl decides for itself when to do GC.
--
John Porter
You can't keep Perl6 Perl5.
Branden wrote:
> John Porter wrote:
> > > ...and trigger a GC that will get rid of the arg.
> >
> > No. Perl decides for itself when to do GC.
>
> The idea is to *allow* a programmer to explicitly destroy an object, for
> better (and sooner) resource disposal. T
Branden wrote:
>
> I think this should be applied to the `defined' function,
Oh, no, here we go again. Branden, why do you insist on dredging
up every contentious issue which has already been beaten to death?
Maybe you need to read the archives first.
--
John Porter
You can&#
inside the
> : block.
> : And that's AAAD for sure!
>
> I never said `our' should affect the variables inside the block!
Well, I don't know what happened here. All I did was cut out some
lines. I did not (at least not intentionally) twiddle the meaning
of your (or anyone else's) words.
> I'm only asking if it has the ``far more
> serious problems than it purports to solve'' you said it has.
Please go back and read all the threads I referred to in my previous
post. In a nutshell, I agree with the naysayers.
--
John Porter
You can't keep Perl6 Perl5.
xically scoped variables to
> guarantee they won't harm scripts that use those modules, I think it's a
> win.
use strict 'vars' + my is already more than sufficient to this need.
> I also see no action at a distance here, since the only way to change the
> ...
> assuming `our' *outside* the block would affect variables inside the block.
I have to disagree with you.
--
John Porter
You can't keep Perl6 Perl5.
only applies to un-declared variables, which currently
(and hopefully forever) can only be global variables.
--
John Porter
ng against your proposal because I think it's a
bad idea and is bad for perl. I assure you if it goes in,
I will not use it. You don't need to worry about that.
--
John Porter
Ann wenno haddum billizac...
d your breath.
(All this to save two keystrokes. Sheesh.)
> In Perl 6, where the compiler will be written in Perl,
What have you been smoking?
--
John Porter
You can't keep Perl6 Perl5.
er that lots of CPAN will be irreparably broken by the
change to perl6. So in some sense we're starting with a much
cleaner slate than is supposed.
--
John Porter
You can't keep Perl6 Perl5.
es, this argument
may turn out to be moot.
(Sorry, Schwern... Couldn't let you have the last word ;-)
--
John Porter
You can't keep Perl6 Perl5.
; The point is that consistency is NOT the overarching
goal of perl's design; being useful to the programmer is. It turns
out that 'my' having higher precedence than comma is signficantly
more useful than if it had a lower precedence. Let's all just
acknowledge that fact, and move on.
--
John Porter
Ann wenno haddum billizac...
fic improvement.
Basically you want to change (= break) the current precedence
of the comma operator. Thank you, Mr. Language Designer.
--
John Porter
Ann wenno haddum billizac...
; around `my's variables, what also increases readability.
If you're willing to require additional parens from other
programmers, you should be wiling to bear the burden of
putting them in, yourself.
--
John Porter
Simon Cozens wrote:
> John Porter wrote:
> > But they are inextricably bound by perl's parsing rules.
>
> Perl 5's parsing rules. I don't think Perl 6 *has* a parser just yet.
As someone else said before me, Perl should not be changed
Just Because We Can. Aspect
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