Indeed, Calomel has lots of reputation, that's why it ranks so high.
Reputation and popularity are 2 different things :)
google only count popularity
On 2012-07-27 15:41, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado wrote:
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 05:36:38PM +1000, David Diggles wrote:
The calomel phenomenon is fascinating!
I was calomeled.
Those who have been calomeled have done the following:
1. lazily google: "openbsd tuning" (or similar)
2. click on:
There is must be a reason why this kind of sites exists.
because there are huge amount of readers.
Ppl whom take care of www.openbsd.org documentation/FAQ maybe have to take a
look and pinpoint what is missing?
nothing is wrong. Just most "admins" are of calomel.org style and doe
On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 22:51, mxb wrote:
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:41 PM, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado wrote:
>
>> Calomel is ranked 2 on google
>
>
> There is must be a reason why this kind of sites exists.
> Ppl whom take care of www.openbsd.org documentation/FAQ maybe have to take a
> look a
>Calomel is ranked 2 on google because it has been linked several hundred
>times from this list. Google doesn't know about good/bad opinions or
>flamewars. Google only cares about the "reputation" of the origin of the
>link.
I don't think that's true; google "link:calomel.org -site:calomel.org" to
On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:41 PM, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado wrote:
> Calomel is ranked 2 on google
There is must be a reason why this kind of sites exists.
Ppl whom take care of www.openbsd.org documentation/FAQ maybe have to take a
look and pinpoint what is missing?
For some reason ppl refer to
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 05:36:38PM +1000, David Diggles wrote:
> The calomel phenomenon is fascinating!
>
> I was calomeled.
>
> Those who have been calomeled have done the following:
>
> 1. lazily google: "openbsd tuning" (or similar)
> 2. click on: "Network Tuning and Performance Guide (OpenBS
On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 6:19 AM, ropers wrote:
> Why is Pa only found in the MACRO REFERENCE section of mdoc(7) and not
> in the MACRO OVERVIEW? Is it deprecated?
It's under the "Semantic markup for command line utilities" subsection.
On 26 July 2012 18:14, Matthew Dempsky wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:23 AM, John Long wrote:
>> +.Pa http://www.openbsd.org/faq .
>
> mdoc(7) says Lk should be used for hyperlinks, though we don't
> actually do that in any of our manuals currently. I think it would be
> nice to start doing
>Ted Unangst [t...@tedunangst.com] wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 09:53, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
>>
>> > /reference/, they're not meant to solve high-level problems. The FAQs are
>> > really are no FAQs at all but a gigantic snowball with floppy install
>> > instructions crucially leaving out 5
>On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:24:31PM +0200, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
>> >That said, the attitude you're displaying does no one any favors: nobody'ss
>> >here to make you feel special; either you're willing to put in the work
>> >or you aren't.
>>
>> Who the fuck do you think you are to use that tone
>On 07/26/12 03:04, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
>>> Everytime you follow a non official documentation, you waste your time
>>> and the developer's time, we're not cranky about "calomel" only, we're
>>> cranky about people following unofficial documentation, remember, our
>>> FAQ and manpages are accura
On 2012-07-26, Eric Oyen wrote:
> one last item, the machine I am using to testbed this doesn't have a dedicated
> serial port (they no longer include those on commodity hardware anymore) so
> having the output routed there is out.
-current can provide a full system console on a PCI serial port,
On Fri, 27 Jul 2012, David Coppa wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Eric Oyen wrote:
> > yep. looks like I need to come up to current then. 4.7 is definitely a
> > little
> > out of date. I might have to set it up in a vmware session on the linux box
> > and see if I can pipe the consol
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Eric Oyen wrote:
> yep. looks like I need to come up to current then. 4.7 is definitely a little
> out of date. I might have to set it up in a vmware session on the linux box
> and see if I can pipe the console to an internal serial port and read it with
> a comm
mdoc(7) (the suggested format)
Ah, the yin and yang of formats and tools ... is there a WYSIWIG editor for
mdoc format?
WHAT?!
ROTFL!
mdoc format, JUST LIKE HTML, is not 1:1 representation of display, but a
text intermixed with commands/tags that define what is what and how.
You just re
Who the fuck do you think you are to use that tone? The royal "we"? Are those mutual favors a
currency I can trade for a cash? Will the OpenBSD community branding me "special" get me more work?
pussy? the INS fast-lane? Nope. *IF* I decide to "put in the work", mylord, it'll be on my own
terms
On 07/26/12 03:04, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
Everytime you follow a non official documentation, you waste your time
and the developer's time, we're not cranky about "calomel" only, we're
cranky about people following unofficial documentation, remember, our
FAQ and manpages are accurate 99.99% of th
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:24:31PM +0200, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
> >That said, the attitude you're displaying does no one any favors: nobody'ss
> >here to make you feel special; either you're willing to put in the work
> >or you aren't.
>
> Who the fuck do you think you are to use that tone? The
Ted Unangst [t...@tedunangst.com] wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 09:53, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
>
> > /reference/, they're not meant to solve high-level problems. The FAQs are
> > really are no FAQs at all but a gigantic snowball with floppy install
> > instructions crucially leaving out 5 1/4"
>That said, the attitude you're displaying does no one any favors: nobody'ss
>here to make you feel special; either you're willing to put in the work
>or you aren't.
Who the fuck do you think you are to use that tone? The royal "we"? Are those
mutual favors a currency I can trade for a cash? Will
yep. looks like I need to come up to current then. 4.7 is definitely a little
out of date. I might have to set it up in a vmware session on the linux box
and see if I can pipe the console to an internal serial port and read it with
a common comm application. the X display would be a bit harder to
well,
its pretty good in a remote session. I tried installing an X screen reader
from ports and was met with a number of unsatisfied dependencies. that was
several months back and I am not sure that things have changed that much. ORCA
is about the only screen reader that will work reliably, but ge
well, I can give that a whirl. you should hear how those text attributes sound
in my screen reader. its much the same as trying to pick out an object at
range among a bunch of moving scenery.
the man piped through more scheme is the biggest part of the problem,
especially on remote sessions.
As a
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:46:24PM -0600, Jack Woehr wrote:
> Weldon Goree wrote:
> >mdoc(7) (the suggested format)
> Ah, the yin and yang of formats and tools ... is there a WYSIWIG editor for
> mdoc format?
vi
!Gmandoc|more
u
Marc Espie wrote:
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:46:24PM -0600, Jack Woehr wrote:
Weldon Goree wrote:
mdoc(7) (the suggested format)
Ah, the yin and yang of formats and tools ... is there a WYSIWIG editor for
mdoc format?
vi
!Gmandoc|more
u
funny guy :)
--
Jack Woehr # "We co
Ingo Schwarze wrote:
The mdoc(7) language is quite easy.
Fascinating exposition ... I guessed the nature of the language from the example. A generation better than groff
format-based concept.
As with any language, maturing your style will take a bit longer.
Well, not sure how much more my style
the web page server is for displaying them in a way my screen reader can
handle. didn't you pay attention in my posting? I mentioned being blind.
as for editing man pages using a text editor, frankly, that is a bit tedious
as there is a lot of text attributes and other invisible "features" embedde
Hi Jack,
Jack Woehr wrote on Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:46:24PM -0600:
> is there a WYSIWIG editor for mdoc format?
No, and there cannot be.
The purpose of a WYSIWIG editor is to achieve a particular
visual impression (most WYSIWIG editors suck even at that task,
but that's beside the point).
The
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:54, Eric Oyen wrote:
> well, I am wondering what packages I can use to edit man pages. also, I may
> have to change how a man page would be laid out because my screen reader
> (both
> in linux and OS X) seem to have trouble handling the change in content when I
> navigate
Weldon Goree wrote:
mdoc(7) (the suggested format)
Ah, the yin and yang of formats and tools ... is there a WYSIWIG editor for
mdoc format?
--
Jack Woehr # "We commonly say we have no time when,
Box 51, Golden CO 80402 # of course, we have all that there is."
http://www.softwoe
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:54:25AM -0700, Eric Oyen wrote:
> well, I am wondering what packages I can use to edit man pages. also, I may
What's your favorite text editor?
> have to change how a man page would be laid out because my screen reader (both
> in linux and OS X) seem to have trouble han
On Thu, 2012-07-26 at 10:54 -0700, Eric Oyen wrote:
> well, I am wondering what packages I can use to edit man pages.
The pages themselves are marked-up text; just use a text editor. Note
that OpenBSD doesn't use groff anymore to render them. Look at
mandoc(1)
mdoc(7) (the suggested format)
man(7
well, I am wondering what packages I can use to edit man pages. also, I may
have to change how a man page would be laid out because my screen reader (both
in linux and OS X) seem to have trouble handling the change in content when I
navigate through a man page in a terminal session.
There was a we
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 04:43:10PM +0200, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
> >> The site can look butt-ugly (or wikimedia-bland) but needs a
> >> semi-official stamp of approval instead of blinking red THIS IS NOT
> >> AFFILIATED WITH OPENBSD.ORG!!!
> >
> >Set up the site, make it work. Approval will come.
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 09:53, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
> /reference/, they're not meant to solve high-level problems. The FAQs are
> really are no FAQs at all but a gigantic snowball with floppy install
> instructions crucially leaving out 5 1/4" and 8" media.
That's because 5" and 8" floppy driv
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:23 AM, John Long wrote:
> +.Pa http://www.openbsd.org/faq .
mdoc(7) says Lk should be used for hyperlinks, though we don't
actually do that in any of our manuals currently. I think it would be
nice to start doing so though so that HTML and PDF formatted manual
pages can
A list member pointed out I could shorten the diff further by not including
the index.html part of the URL.
Third time's the charm?
Index: src/share/man/man8/afterboot.8
===
RCS file: /cvs/src/share/man/man8/afterboot.8,v
retrieving
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 04:12:50PM +0200, David Coppa wrote:
> Please,
>
> One sentence, one line...
Ok, here we go:
Index: src/share/man/man8/afterboot.8
===
RCS file: /cvs/src/share/man/man8/afterboot.8,v
retrieving revision 1.13
>> The site can look butt-ugly (or wikimedia-bland) but needs a
>> semi-official stamp of approval instead of blinking red THIS IS NOT
>> AFFILIATED WITH OPENBSD.ORG!!!
>
>Set up the site, make it work. Approval will come.
Other way around. I got better things to do than start a project obsd
mai
On 2012-07-26, Andres Perera wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:30 AM, Paulm wrote:
>>> Dynamic content & proper search would also put an end to "just wade through
> marc.info" fuck-offs and self-righteous RTFD when one has to "egrep -Rli
> serial /usr/share/man", say. Man/info pages are the ulti
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 3:52 PM, John Long wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 09:56:44AM -0300, Daniel Bolgheroni wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 07:47:46AM +0200, Joakim Dellrud wrote:
>> >
>> > Perhaps a resource of howtos/FAQ can be created since OpenBSD does not
>> > change to much between rel
Peter Laufenberg wrote:
> Here's a better idea I'm putting out there to see how fast it gets shot
> down: openbsd-wiki.org, with a rule that whoever gets a question
> answered on misc has to add an entry with the cleaned reply.
Go ahead, make it so.
I'm not being sarcastic. Well, only a little.
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 09:56:44AM -0300, Daniel Bolgheroni wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 07:47:46AM +0200, Joakim Dellrud wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps a resource of howtos/FAQ can be created since OpenBSD does not
> > change to much between releases? Or is that not interesting either?
>
> Maybe you
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 07:47:46AM +0200, Joakim Dellrud wrote:
>
> Perhaps a resource of howtos/FAQ can be created since OpenBSD does not
> change to much between releases? Or is that not interesting either?
Maybe you should, _at least_, read the www page, _at least_ to know that
a FAQ already e
I couldn't have put it better. Plus Private Lessons on DNS on condition
that the student is not under "Big Brothers" purview .. smiles
On Thu, 2012-07-26 at 06:22 -0430, Andres Perera wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:33 AM, Wojciech Puchar
> wrote:
> >> I'm used to learning tech from scratch
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:30 AM, Paulm wrote:
>> Dynamic content & proper search would also put an end to "just wade through
marc.info" fuck-offs and self-righteous RTFD when one has to "egrep -Rli
serial /usr/share/man", say. Man/info pages are the ultimate /reference/,
they're not meant to solve
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:33 AM, Wojciech Puchar
wrote:
>> I'm used to learning tech from scratch and mastering then using it but
>> my work load is punishing and I would like to clean up DNS on my lan
>> since the devices are just adding up too fast...
>
> what a problem with DNS? It is rather ea
>On 07/26/12 03:53, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
>>> Apparently calomel is full of bad and/or outdated advice for openbsd,
>>> especially the sysctl tuning stuff.
>>>
>>> Your best advice is to follow the official FAQ's on openbsd.org, and
>>> read openbsd man pages to learn your techniques.
>>>
>>> May
>Everytime you follow a non official documentation, you waste your time
>and the developer's time, we're not cranky about "calomel" only, we're
>cranky about people following unofficial documentation, remember, our
>FAQ and manpages are accurate 99.99% of the time and they are pretty
>well written
On 07/26/12 03:53, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
Apparently calomel is full of bad and/or outdated advice for openbsd,
especially the sysctl tuning stuff.
Your best advice is to follow the official FAQ's on openbsd.org, and
read openbsd man pages to learn your techniques.
Maybe there needs to be a ca
>> Here's a better idea I'm putting out there to see how fast it gets shot
>> down: openbsd-wiki.org, with a rule that whoever gets a question answered on
>> misc has to add an entry with the cleaned reply. It'd do wonders for misc's
>> signal/noise because lazy fucks, retards and trolls would t
In some ways, it is almost fortunate the calomel meme exists to keep reminding
newcomers, as annoying as repetition is. It's the nature of things.
I fell for it in the past. Others will in the future.
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:01:41AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
> I first read the documentat
I'm used to learning tech from scratch and mastering then using it but
my work load is punishing and I would like to clean up DNS on my lan
since the devices are just adding up too fast...
what a problem with DNS? It is rather easy.
I could help you on priv if you like, if you will clean up your
I first read the documentation, the do everything properly and after that
i f..k it all up because some trendy webpages says i should.
On Thu, 26 Jul 2012, Joakim Dellrud wrote:
To my defense I use the FAQ and MAN first then I used Calomel for example
configs of more obscure things :).
On Thu
> Here's a better idea I'm putting out there to see how fast it gets shot down:
> openbsd-wiki.org, with a rule that whoever gets a question answered on misc
> has to add an entry with the cleaned reply. It'd do wonders for misc's
> signal/noise because lazy fucks, retards and trolls would think
I know, since I did it too in the past, that when you're using Linux,
you're basically in the dark, so you go to google, and you try your
luck.
when i was still using linux it was "this manual is out of date, use
texinfo". texinfo was out of date too, but wikipedia style documentation
was consid
I feel this usually comes from folks with Linux background.
You see, in BSD world, specially in OpenBSD, there is good and high
quality documentation, which the developers put a lot of effort in
providing it.
I know, since I did it too in the past, that when you're using Linux,
you're basically in
tup a 5.1 box on my lan. Now after understanding its
> basic inner workings I wish to put it to heavy and good use.
>
> All I'm asking is that is it advisable to use some of the tutorials
> found on https://calomel.org/ as a sort of map to setup basic services
> like DNS and
o follow that same broken source as you, I will
not take it private because you're publically dumbing people.
> And also a comment on calomel; yes I use it but I'm not stupid enough to
> either copy straight from it OR use the sysctl... The only guides I have
> used for reference
>Apparently calomel is full of bad and/or outdated advice for openbsd,
>especially the sysctl tuning stuff.
>
>Your best advice is to follow the official FAQ's on openbsd.org, and
>read openbsd man pages to learn your techniques.
>
>Maybe there needs to be a calomel faq on openbsd.org.
Here's a be
Did I just read, that ?
"To my defense, I read nicely written FAQ and MAN first, then I
used broken and wrong documentation for broken examples of more
obscure things"
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 09:26:03AM +0200, Joakim Dellrud wrote:
> To my defense I use the FAQ and MAN first then I used Calome
The calomel phenomenon is fascinating!
I was calomeled.
Those who have been calomeled have done the following:
1. lazily google: "openbsd tuning" (or similar)
2. click on: "Network Tuning and Performance Guide (OpenBSD) - Calomel"
(currently ranked 2 on google)
3. lazy and in a hurry to get "
To my defense I use the FAQ and MAN first then I used Calomel for example
configs of more obscure things :).
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Gilles Chehade wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 06:55:54AM +0200, Shaka NKofo wrote:
> >
> > [blabla]
> >
>
> *facepalm*
>
> --
> Gilles Chehade
>
> https
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 06:55:54AM +0200, Shaka NKofo wrote:
>
> [blabla]
>
*facepalm*
--
Gilles Chehade
https://www.poolp.org @poolpOrg
wish to put it to heavy and good use.
>
> All I'm asking is that is it advisable to use some of the tutorials
> found on https://calomel.org/ as a sort of map to setup basic services
> like DNS and pf?
No.
> I'm used to learning tech from scratch and mastering then using it
y and good use.
All I'm asking is that is it advisable to use some of the tutorials
found on https://calomel.org/ as a sort of map to setup basic services
like DNS and pf?
I'm used to learning tech from scratch and mastering then using it but
my work load is punishing and I would like to
On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 07:47:46 +0200, Joakim Dellrud wrote:
>Okay I feel that a flame war might be afoot but to put another log on the
>fire; is Calomel not trustworthy in the "read and do alike not copying
>straight from" kind of way? I have used the guides for instance about the
>PF and DNS. And t
I'm asking is that is it advisable to use some of the tutorials
>> found on https://calomel.org/ as a sort of map to setup basic services
>> like DNS and pf?
>>
>> I'm used to learning tech from scratch and mastering then using it but
>> my work load is punishi
it to heavy and good use.
All I'm asking is that is it advisable to use some of the tutorials
found on https://calomel.org/ as a sort of map to setup basic services
like DNS and pf?
I'm used to learning tech from scratch and mastering then using it but
my work load is punishing and I woul
gs I wish to put it to heavy and good use.
>
> All I'm asking is that is it advisable to use some of the tutorials
> found on https://calomel.org/ as a sort of map to setup basic services
> like DNS and pf?
>
> I'm used to learning tech from scratch and mastering then us
that is it advisable to use some of the tutorials
found on https://calomel.org/ as a sort of map to setup basic services
like DNS and pf?
I'm used to learning tech from scratch and mastering then using it but
my work load is punishing and I would like to clean up DNS on my lan
since the d
Darrin Chandler writes:
> This is true of any sites with OpenBSD help. Sometimes I've found some
> info on these sites that's saved me much time, but I'd never take the
> info without thinking it through myself, check against the man pages,
> FAQ, etc.
One common problem is that sites set up by
Thanks for the heads up.
I agree that with all of the work done in the newest MP kernel the
page is outdated. There should be time this month to test the newest
release and post the results.
Network Speed and Performance Guide (OpenBSD)
https://calomel.org/network_performance.html
As Darren
On Thu, May 07, 2009 at 12:03:23PM +, Stuart Henderson wrote:
> There are some useful things on the site, but please, use with a big
> pinch of salt.
This is true of any sites with OpenBSD help. Sometimes I've found some
info on these sites that's saved me much time, but I'd never take the
inf
On 2009-05-07, FRLinux wrote:
> On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 4:07 AM, James Peltier
> wrote:
>> There was mention of calomel.org recently. This is a great resource,
> however,
>> it needs to be a bit more updated. For example the following page advises
>> *not* to use the
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 4:07 AM, James Peltier
wrote:
> There was mention of calomel.org recently. This is a great resource,
however,
> it needs to be a bit more updated. For example the following page advises
> *not* to use the GENERIC.MP kernel, however, considering how much work h
There was mention of calomel.org recently. This is a great resource, however,
it needs to be a bit more updated. For example the following page advises
*not* to use the GENERIC.MP kernel, however, considering how much work has
gone into the MP work and fact that MP will become default I think it
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