Re: [go-nuts] Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust

2020-02-10 Thread Kevin Chadwick
On 2020-02-10 16:31, Brian Candler wrote: > p.s. Does anyone know how well Rust reads as this is highly important to > me? > > > I have read Rust described as being in the spirit of "pragmatic Haskell". > > https://jmmv.dev/2018/07/rust-vs-go.html > https://jmmv.dev/series.html#Rust%20revie

Re: [go-nuts] Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust

2020-02-10 Thread Brian Candler
On Monday, 10 February 2020 10:09:47 UTC, Kevin Chadwick wrote: > > p.s. Does anyone know how well Rust reads as this is highly important to > me? > I have read Rust described as being in the spirit of "pragmatic Haskell". https://jmmv.dev/2018/07/rust-vs-go.html https://jmmv.dev/series.html#Ru

Re: [go-nuts] Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust

2020-02-10 Thread Kevin Chadwick
On 2020-02-09 15:05, David Riley wrote: > Correspondingly, the rather heavy requirements for the Go runtime make it a > lot less practical for small embedded use cases (though not impossible, as > recent list traffic indicates). If I were building a small (think <=256k > RAM) embedded system th

Re: [go-nuts] Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust

2020-02-09 Thread Robert Engels
If you use any dynamic memory strict latency is very very difficult in any language/platform. I’m not really sure how a platform like Discord has strict latency requirements - it’s not as if the ‘read badge’ not updating is going to crash the plane. As an example a lot of auto systems use Java

Re: [go-nuts] Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust

2020-02-09 Thread David Riley
On Feb 7, 2020, at 7:24 AM, Everton Marques wrote: > > I think Go is way better than Rust, but it is amusing to see why people pick > one over another. I think they have very different use cases. Rust is fundamentally a functional language, which suits it quite well for things functional lang

Re: [go-nuts] Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust

2020-02-08 Thread stephen . illingworth
On Saturday, 8 February 2020 08:38:40 UTC, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Go, on the other hand...I'm an old > hand from the same culture the Go devs exemplify. > I'm glad somebody else has said that. For me, Kernighan and Pike's involvement was the clinching argument in favour of Go. Coding p

Re: [go-nuts] Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust

2020-02-08 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Bakul Shah : > Did you consider using nim? It is much closer to python. You could've even > selectively replaced python bits with nim bits based on profiling. I did, very briefly. At the time I had to make the decision - a little over a year ago now - Nim did not seem quite well-established enough

Re: [go-nuts] Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust

2020-02-07 Thread Bakul Shah
> On Feb 7, 2020, at 10:44 PM, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > On the other hand, for me to have tried to port reposurgeon to Rust > would have been a mind-numbingly stupid idea. And that will be true of > any application above a certain complexity of internal data-structure > management, where havin

Re: [go-nuts] Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust

2020-02-07 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Tyler Compton : > It would have been nice to see performance measurements from a more recent > Go version. That said, it makes sense to me that Rust would be a better > choice for this kind of application, where the main performance bottleneck > is the sheer number of objects in memory. A language

Re: [go-nuts] Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust

2020-02-07 Thread Robert Engels
I think if you look into Zing or Shenandoah you’ll find a different experience. Literally zero tuning required. > On Feb 7, 2020, at 3:29 PM, Marcin Romaszewicz wrote: > >  > > >> On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 11:43 AM Robert Engels wrote: >> I didn’t look into the project but reading between th

Re: [go-nuts] Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust

2020-02-07 Thread Marcin Romaszewicz
On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 11:43 AM Robert Engels wrote: > I didn’t look into the project but reading between the lines here I am > betting that Java would perform as well as Rust in this case. This is an > example of where not having generational GC hurts badly - since it appears > that most of the

Re: [go-nuts] Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust

2020-02-07 Thread Robert Engels
I didn’t look into the project but reading between the lines here I am betting that Java would perform as well as Rust in this case. This is an example of where not having generational GC hurts badly - since it appears that most of their heap would be very long lived objects. > On Feb 7, 2020

Re: [go-nuts] Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust

2020-02-07 Thread Marcin Romaszewicz
You're not oversimplifying. GC incurs a price, and that's performance. If you have a program which manages its own memory optimally for its usage pattern, it will be more efficient than a generic GC that has to handle all usage patterns. I use Go everywhere I can, since the tradeoff between program

Re: [go-nuts] Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust

2020-02-07 Thread Tyler Compton
It would have been nice to see performance measurements from a more recent Go version. That said, it makes sense to me that Rust would be a better choice for this kind of application, where the main performance bottleneck is the sheer number of objects in memory. A language where you get to express

Re: [go-nuts] Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust

2020-02-07 Thread Manlio Perillo
On Friday, February 7, 2020 at 5:13:45 PM UTC+1, Lutz Horn wrote: > > > "Remarkably, we had only put very basic thought into optimization as the > Rust version was written. Even with just basic optimization, Rust was able > to outperform the hyper hand-tuned Go version. This is a huge testament t

Re: [go-nuts] Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust

2020-02-07 Thread Lutz Horn
> "Remarkably, we had only put very basic thought into optimization as the Rust > version was written. Even with just basic optimization, Rust was able to > outperform the hyper hand-tuned Go version. This is a huge testament to how > easy it is to write efficient programs with Rust compared to

[go-nuts] Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust

2020-02-07 Thread Everton Marques
I think Go is way better than Rust, but it is amusing to see why people pick one over another. "Remarkably, we had only put very basic thought into optimization as the Rust version was written. Even with just basic optimization, Rust was able to outperform the hyper hand-tuned Go version. This