Doesn't Enlightenment have a display manager, and isn't systemd optional for
Enlightenment?
-Jonathan
On Saturday, February 14, 2015 6:35 PM, Steve Litt
wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 21:41:20 +
Jaromil wrote:
>
> Some notes I should have added:
>
> this is using sysvinit as in
On 02/14/2015 06:59 PM, Luke Leighton wrote:
>
> what i wrote makes the following things very clear:
>
> 1) your debian system will not be screwed up or compromised by using
> devuan. you will also not lose any functionality or packages.
>
*** I guess that really depends on the case: as me
On 02/14/2015 06:59 PM, Luke Leighton wrote:
>
> hellekin: can you see the difference between that and what's on the
> wiki (and on the web site)?
>
*** Surely I do, and I thank you very much for your version.
Please understand that the wiki page that I linked to was written once 2
months ago
On 02/14/2015 09:08 PM, KatolaZ wrote:
>>>
a functioning and fuss-free GNU/Linux, which I can tinker with as like
>>>
>> *** Word, KatolaZ, word. :)
>>
>
> I am sorry I am trashing your mailboxes with tons of words :( I would
> rather like to help you guys doing the hard work...
>
*** Aha!
Hi guys,
a few simple steps to have Devuan-pre-alpha-valentine installed and
running on qemu:
0)# wget
"http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso";
1)$ apt-get install qemu-kvm
2)$ qemu-img create devuan_disk 5G
(creates a 5G qemu disk image for devuan)
On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 09:59:00PM +, Luke Leighton wrote:
>
> Whilst it may prove unavoidable, we seek to actively avoid a complete
> fork of Debian (learning the lessons from Ubuntu), not least because
> we wish to make it easy for users to transition between Devuan and
> Debian (wit
On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 01:06:32AM +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
[cut]
>
> so whatever i go with, it has to be stable (or small enough for me to
> maintain myself). i can't even contemplate, right now, converting to
> e.g. FreeBSD even though i use fvwm2, because i am going to be
On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 10:55 PM, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 05:46:03PM +, Luke Leighton wrote:
>
> [very long cut]
>
>>
>> this is again a self-fulfilling statement of intent, where i have
>> demonstrated logically and rationally above that the grounds for the
>> conclusion t
On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 01:01:21PM -0300, hellekin wrote:
[cut]
>
> >
> >> a functioning and fuss-free GNU/Linux, which I can tinker with as like
> >
> *** Word, KatolaZ, word. :)
>
I am sorry I am trashing your mailboxes with tons of words :( I would
rather like to help you guys doing the ha
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 21:41:20 +
Jaromil wrote:
>
> Some notes I should have added:
>
> this is using sysvinit as init, but still has systemd because:
>
> 1- udev is part of systemd
> 2- gvfs is still depending from systemd
> 3- dbus is still depending from systemd
> 4- lightdm requires syst
I wish I knew about that program earlier. I've had to fork udev's ATA and
SCSI probing code to create equivalent tools for vdev.
-Jude
On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 11:22 AM, wrote:
> Didier:
> > Found it. Synaptic is great. Describes it as an SCSI CLI. Well done
> > since hotplug keys and even
On Feb 14, 2015 6:31 PM, "Richard" wrote:
>
>
> On Feb 14, 2015 5:29 PM, "Luke Leighton" wrote:
> >
> > hellekin dyne.org> writes:
> >
> > >
> > > On 02/14/2015 10:16 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> > > > On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 8:12 AM, KatolaZ freaknet.org>
wrote:
> > > >> On Thu, F
On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 05:46:03PM +, Luke Leighton wrote:
[very long cut]
>
> this is again a self-fulfilling statement of intent, where i have
> demonstrated logically and rationally above that the grounds for the
> conclusion that you draw are incorrect.
>
> is there anything that yo
Hi T.J.,
That's kind of what's already been happening. The big push right now is in
pulling the Debian packages that depend on systemd into git.devuan.org and
altering them so they don't need systemd. All other Debian packages (the
ones with no direct systemd dependency) should "just work."
Jar
On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 09:36:00PM +, Jaromil wrote:
>
> re all,
>
> Here is a pre-alpha sneak preview of Devuan at the current state of
> affairs. It is my valentine to Franco: despite we probably never met in
> person, I love him. He is really dedicated to this project and putting
> hard w
> I think this is a good idea, even if only to keep me motivated I'll
> start.
Thanks for the update, Jude. It is appreciated.
I'll state from the outset this is entirely a suggestion. I think it may help
get outsiders involved, but the concepts are entirely subjective.
What I was really
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 21:41:20 +
Jaromil wrote:
> 4- lightdm requires systemd-logind (only systemd daemon running)
Congrats!
This is great, exactly what I was waiting for! The logind dependency of several
libraries and daemons (most notably, AccountsService) made the debugging of GDM
a nigh
hellekin dyne.org> writes:
>
> On 02/14/2015 10:16 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> > On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 8:12 AM, KatolaZ freaknet.org> wrote:
> >> On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 04:01:58PM +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
wrote:
> >
> >>> is it the intent of the devuan team to:
> >
If I might add my opinion to the discussion, I will be very clear in saying
that even attempting to stay somewhat in sync with Debian is a waste of
valuable time and effort, and deserves a resounding “No” vote.
I'm all for using Debian upstream to minimize effort for the first releases,
but if
Hi Jaromil,
(1) and (3) should already be taken care of.
Regarding (1), even though udev is part of systemd, you can still build
udev from version 215 without requiring any linkage against libsystemd0.
The udev from Debian testing (the one I'm using) doesn't link against it,
for example.
Regardi
> The dev teams seems very quiet and isolated, which is okay - but it makes
them seem less approachable if you are on the list.
I think this is a good idea, even if only to keep me motivated :) I'll
start.
** vdev **
It's been slow-going for me these past couple weeks since I've had to
devote m
Some notes I should have added:
this is using sysvinit as init, but still has systemd because:
1- udev is part of systemd
2- gvfs is still depending from systemd
3- dbus is still depending from systemd
4- lightdm requires systemd-logind (only systemd daemon running)
I'm looking forward to Jude
<3
On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 4:36 PM, Jaromil wrote:
>
> re all,
>
> Here is a pre-alpha sneak preview of Devuan at the current state of
> affairs. It is my valentine to Franco: despite we probably never met in
> person, I love him. He is really dedicated to this project and putting
> hard work i
re all,
Here is a pre-alpha sneak preview of Devuan at the current state of
affairs. It is my valentine to Franco: despite we probably never met in
person, I love him. He is really dedicated to this project and putting
hard work in it. I also fell in love with another VUA, whose name I
won't tel
Am Samstag, 14. Februar 2015 schrieb Luke Leighton:
> to support the purchase of a new (recent) printer which requires hplip
> 3.16 for example i had to compile hplip *from source code* because
> TDE *even with latest packages* forces hplip 3.12 *not* 3.16.
Sorry, this statement is not true: TD
Hendrik Boom topoi.pooq.com> writes:
> Wasn't the initial plan to have a Devuan repository that could be added
> to the existing Debian repositories (but pinned to higher priority)
> so we could focus on changing what needed changing, but not waste time
> on replicating *everything*?
that is
On Saturday, February 14, 2015 09:27:57 AM Didier Kryn wrote:
> No no , T.J. , I don't think your emails are a nuisance. I was
> rather thinking of mine, having expressed all sorts of frustrations on
> this list while the good guys are silently doing the job we are all
> waiting for with great
Gravis adaptivetime.com> writes:
>
> > well, here's what _can_ assure that the transition will be at least
> > not complete hell and requiring a total abandonment of devuan for
> > debian and vice-versa (i.e. a total and complete wipe-down of a hard
> > drive and a reinstall from scratch):
>
>
KatolaZ freaknet.org> writes:
>
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 12:46:42PM -0300, Renaud OLGIATI wrote:
> > Fork is permanent only as long as the two branches do not later converge
and rejoin.
>
> Yes, I know that, but have you ever seen anything similar happening in
> the past?
no - but that is,
Le 14/02/2015 17:08, Steve Litt a écrit :
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 08:12:38 +
KatolaZ wrote:
Before a few months ago I had never thought that I could ever been
forced to leave Debian after about 15 years of using and loving it. I
hope that eventually we will see a happy ending to this story, b
Jaromil:
> dear Jude,
> On Mon, 02 Feb 2015, Jude Nelson wrote:
> >Hey everyone,
> >Is there a list somewhere that has the packages in Jessie that depend on
> >some part of systemd?* I'd like to get the ball rolling on compiling out
> >systemd dependencies for Devuan packages, but I
[to richard, top-posted deliberately so that the chances are high that
he will read it] - richard, apologies, i appreciate you are using
gmail which provides a nice clean way to encourage people to top-post,
but in case you have never encountered the reasons why it is bad, may
i suggest you read th
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 10:30:32 +
Jaromil wrote:
>
> hi Jack, Isaac,
>
> On Fri, 13 Feb 2015, Jack L. Frost wrote:
> > That's because by default X tries to hotplug input devices with
> > evdev. And evdev requires libudev. There is a evdev fork that
> > works with libsysdev tho:
> > https://gi
+1 for this pragmatic approach.
On 14.02.2015 11:30, Jaromil wrote:
>
> hi Jack, Isaac,
>
> On Fri, 13 Feb 2015, Jack L. Frost wrote:
>> That's because by default X tries to hotplug input devices with evdev.
>> And evdev requires libudev. There is a evdev fork that works with
>> libsysdev tho:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 04:22:58 -0500
Gravis wrote:
> Like KatolaZ wrote, "the whole Debian project might crumble" and the
> truth is Devuan may be the acid rain deepening the cracks that have
> appeared on the stone statue we know as Debian. As long as we dont
> make absurdly radical changes, it s
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 08:12:38 +
KatolaZ wrote:
> Before a few months ago I had never thought that I could ever been
> forced to leave Debian after about 15 years of using and loving it. I
> hope that eventually we will see a happy ending to this story, but I
> don't have good feelings about th
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 08:00:03 +
KatolaZ wrote:
> I am sorry but revolutions are not cheap, and every time you choose to
> go for something then you have to give up on something else. I really
> hope Debian will reconsider the systemd nonsense, but I suspect that
> the probability for this even
On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 11:27:55AM -0430, Richard wrote:
> While this seems an admirable idea, it seems that Debian's change of
> direction is the reason we are here.
>
> A fork means that you take a different path. Inevitably those paths diverge
> --a fork.
>
> We have the benefit of where Debia
On 02/14/2015 10:16 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 8:12 AM, KatolaZ wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 04:01:58PM +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>
>>> is it the intent of the devuan team to:
>>>
>>> (a) create a "fork" which will always, at all time
While this seems an admirable idea, it seems that Debian's change of
direction is the reason we are here.
A fork means that you take a different path. Inevitably those paths diverge
--a fork.
We have the benefit of where Debian was with Wheezy and Jessie. That is our
resource. Devuan's goal I bel
MX-14, PCLOS, MINT-LTS, Gobo
On Feb 14, 2015 8:46 AM, "Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton"
wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 8:12 AM, KatolaZ wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 04:01:58PM +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
> wrote:
>
> >> is it the intent of the devuan team to:
> >>
> >> (a) create
> well, here's what _can_ assure that the transition will be at least
> not complete hell and requiring a total abandonment of devuan for
> debian and vice-versa (i.e. a total and complete wipe-down of a hard
> drive and a reinstall from scratch):
Why do you say that? I use parts of
stable/testin
On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 8:12 AM, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 04:01:58PM +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>> is it the intent of the devuan team to:
>>
>> (a) create a "fork" which will always, at all times, without fail,
>> require that a debian repo be placed in /etc/apt
hi Jack, Isaac,
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015, Jack L. Frost wrote:
> That's because by default X tries to hotplug input devices with evdev.
> And evdev requires libudev. There is a evdev fork that works with
> libsysdev tho: https://github.com/idunham/xf86-input-evdev
I'm curious to read Nextime's opini
KatolaZ is 100% correct. Software distributions are remarkably
evolutionary in nature and while it's possible to co-exist, it's a
useful populous and funding that keeps distros alive. Devuan is the
divergence of Debian user base so to stay alive we need to increase
our number of useful people as
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015, T.J. Duchene wrote:
> Such discussions can be productive if they remains civilized, and does not
> distract from the overall work of the project. If my recent discussion with
> Steve Litt about C, etc has been considered a distraction, I will be happy to
> remove it to pri
No no , T.J. , I don't think your emails are a nuisance. I was
rather thinking of mine, having expressed all sorts of frustrations on
this list while the good guys are silently doing the job we are all
waiting for with great hope. I was just thinking it was not very polite,
and therefore I
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 04:01:58PM +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
[cut]
> so. to clarify:
>
> is it the intent of the devuan team to:
>
> (a) create a "fork" which will always, at all times, without fail,
> require that a debian repo be placed in /etc/apt/sources.list
>
> or
>
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 12:46:42PM -0300, Renaud OLGIATI wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:40:33 +
> KatolaZ wrote:
>
> > Having said that, and besides the fact
> > that I don't understand what you mean by a "temporary fork" (a fork is
> > a fork, it happens at a point in time and unless you ca
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