rmore, there is no reason for us to have problems if it is
distributed in non-us. Wouldn't it be an appropriate place to distribute
it?
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all a derivative work. Whether it is linked to it using ELF or
not is irrelevant.
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> [ X ] I am a Debian Developer as described in the Debian
> Constitution as of the date on this survey.
>
> === CUT HERE ===
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e explain which guidelines you intend to apply to
documentation then? I'm rather curious to see which language tricks you
will be using to justify the GFDL being free.
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
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`. `'
t looks about 2 out of 3 of people who answered this survey disagree
with your vision of pure FDL, so I'm afraid the "obviously" term should
be removed from your analysis.
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'
like to call them ?
OH MY GOD, WE DON'T INCLUDE ACROBAT IN DEBIAN MAIN, THIS IS
*CENSORSHIP*, WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO EXCLUDE IT FROM DISTRIBUTION!
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.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
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ributor have more control of the package contents in this case. So
> FDL shifts control over specific parts of the documentation to software
> author.
Do you realize you are reasoning just like the proprietary software
folks the FDL is supposedly meant to fight ?
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the DFSG?
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absolutely no idea of what you are talking about.
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Le lun 25/08/2003 à 08:38, Sergey V. Spiridonov a écrit :
> Josselin Mouette wrote:
>
> > Do you realize you are reasoning just like the proprietary software
> > folks the FDL is supposedly meant to fight ?
>
> There is a basic difference between free software foundation
#x27;t restrict freedom of
users?
You are a completely dumb moron.
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ue to lack of manpower.
As for GPL 3, do you intend to use clauses similar to invariant sections
or to the technical measures stuff in GFDL section 2? This is a matter
of concern on this list.
Regards,
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' : [EMAIL PROTEC
Le lun 25/08/2003 à 16:21, Fedor Zuev a écrit :
> On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>
> >Le lun 25/08/2003 ? 09:22, Fedor Zuev a ?crit :
> >> When you try to apply license outside of its scope you should expect
> >> to receive funny results. GFDL has
Le lun 25/08/2003 à 20:32, Sergey V. Spiridonov a écrit :
> Josselin Mouette wrote:
>
> > GPL doesn't take away freedom. It is a copyleft, full stop. As long as
> > you respect the copyleft, you are free to do anything you want with the
> > software. There is no limit
hat Jérôme is not fluent in French either.
The translated clause writes as:
« Debian demeurera un ensemble logiciel totalement libre. »
This sentence is perfectly clear, and can not be read as:
« L'ensemble des logiciels dans Debian demeureront totalement libres. »
However, I believe Jérôme can re
86-disassembler, which assure compilable output, in the world.
Funny one.
I am sure you will point us to a magical OCR that can gather structural
information and extract e.g. scientific formulas from a document.
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: :'
was hard to know how to
understand your sayings. I did believe you had read the translation, so
sorry if my answer seemed a bit rude, it was not meant to.
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
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`. `'[EMAIL PROTEC
cide not to use Emacs at all, if he will
> know, that Emacs and Manifesto written by the same man. (Btw, this
> if a far more usual and far more honest behavior, than strip
> Manifesto and continue to use it)
You don't understand what free software is about.
--
.&#
reasoning, we don't need any free software.
> I believe in most cases we can agree with such a limitation.
Oh, but we already agree with such limitations. In the non-free section.
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
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`. `&
use of e.g. the backgrounds.
It would be more clever to dual-license it under either the current
license or another license; an old-style BSD license with advertising
clause or a simple copyleft license come up as reasonable choices.
Regards,
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./
uments in Debian, and you imply that we need to
change our minds, and you don't need to change your license.
That's not the way things work. You are free not to change your license,
and we are free to drop your documents if we feel your license is not
suitable.
Regar
? Or you can do *whatever you
> want*? I do not think there could be answer "yes" to both questions.
Blah, blah, blah.
Come back when you have learned to read.
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'
n where they can talk about the
best for our users, when they prominently advocate the use of invariant
sections, and spread misinformation about non-free software we
distribute.
Regards,
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `&#
Le ven 29/08/2003 à 16:09, Mathieu Roy a écrit :
> The DFSG itself does not meet the DFSG itself, if you think that no
> text can be invariant.
Do you intend to repeat the whole load of silly things we have read
during last week on this list?
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.''`.
sensus on this list to tell whether or not a license is DFSG-free.
And the consensus is clear, even if we add your voice to the survey.
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be of any interest. Sorry.
"We" meaning "a large majority of people reading this list". I thought
it was pretty obvious in my email.
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n
be as purely aware as you.
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nd OSI.
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the DFSG, only the
name has to be changed. If the GFDL had such a clause instead of
invariant sections, it would be considered free.
> Too bad, the DFSG still do not meet the DFSG if the GFDL do not meet
> the DFSG.
Wrong.
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learn not to choke at each of Mathieu's intervention.
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cal measures" clause is not a burden for users?
You must be joking. This clause has a direct effect on all users,
restricting the use of e.g. encrypted filesystems.
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.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
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t I'll guess you'll go on ignoring what was already said in this
thread, repeating things again and again.)
--
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u forbid others to put a copy in a private directory
with 0600 permissions.
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Descript
he
> Debian distribution.
True, but the swirl logo fails the DFSG as well, as you can only use it
to refer to the project, and it doesn't allow explicitly other uses.
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.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
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Debian logo in main. If you find
it in a package, please report a serious bug against it.
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signatu
r), it is a mark of approval by the community of Debian developers
(read: it is on the Renault dealer's sign).
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Writing specific
guidelines for documentation or data would lead straightly to the same
definition.
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sig
rm, software.
> The freedom objectives are the same but they are
> small differences.
Name them.
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.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
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website DFSG-free. We are explaining that all parts of the Debian
operating system, including documentations (BUT NOT THE OFFICIAL DEBIAN
LOGO WHICH IS NOT PART OF THE DEBIAN OPERATING SYSTEM), must be
DFSG-free.
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.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' :
here equates the source. But if they were written using a higher-level
language, it makes them more hardly suitable for main. However, if
modifying them is achievable and potentially useful, they could be
considered the same as bitmap pictures when the layered source is
missing.
Le lun 22/09/2003 à 16:04, Sam Hocevar a écrit :
> On Mon, Sep 22, 2003, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>
> > If the binaries were entirely written using assembly code, the binary
> > here equates the source.
>
>This is very rarely true. Even assembly code has varia
AND yeupou AND Fedor Zuev AND Sergey foobar and any
other blind GFDL advocate who is told Debian is BAD, because they want
to drop FREE (it is written free on it, so it is certainly free)
documentation from the GREAT GNU project ?
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: :'
this use.
>
> The open use logo would be great to use, and certain packages
> already do, except it has a non-free license!
The solution is not to stop using it, but rather to change its
licensing. Sadly, it will probably require a GR.
--
.''`. Josselin M
on the non-free removal side, and am sure I am
not alone on this list. I hope the GR can be voted soon.)
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
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ng interesting to say?
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th mplayer, the
maintainer will have a hard time convincing the ftpmasters that his
package is 100 % free software, and free of patent issues. You can call
this discrimination, I will call this careful attention towards some
people who already proved to be incompetent regarding leg
tp://xine.sf.net/ says that xine decodes WMV.
It does decode WMV8.
As Gabucino mentioned, it can also decode WMV9 using the win32 DLL's,
but distributing them is presumably illegal, so this is only a solution
for those who have a copy of some Windows version on thei
the
information".
So the question is, does this licensing allow for shipping the generated
files under any license? Here, the GPL.
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bits, you might want to license the
*nix version under the GPL, and the windows version under a qmail-like
license.
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doesn't restrict anything you are describing, as long as the
source is available alongside.
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y default, but you have the
choice.
As for legal issues, I fail to see why we should drop something for a
patent that is not actively enforced, especially when it is not known
whether it is actually enforceable.
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.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' :
are -- has a descision been made on
> this? -- this would I think effectively stop Debian from distributing
> any GPLed work on a CD which conforms to the DFSG.
Oh dear.
Poor, poor horses. Even dead, they are never left alone.
--
.''`. Josse
ering won't stop.
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added to the Fonts, so long
as the base set of glyphs is not modified or removed.
Regards,
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
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gt; one of the following:
> a. We checked the draft license and if it stays as is, the fonts are properly
> free.
> b. We checked the draft license and it's not free, but if you change this to
> that, it's properly free.
This is exactly why I added debian-legal as a CC, but
the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" address. I need to
> learn more on this bugs system.
> I send this e-mail in personal, not to screw again the headers.
Please, keep the discussion on the debian-legal mailing list (which has
nothing to do with the bug tracking syste
of venue
> clauses either, but they should try to modify the DFSG then.
Could you explain why DFSG#5 couldn't be invoked in this case?
--
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`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
`
Le vendredi 09 septembre 2005 à 00:41 +0200, Marco d'Itri a écrit :
> On Sep 09, Josselin Mouette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > There is nothing wrong with this, and I'm not a fan of choice of venue
> > > clauses either, but they should try to modify
rmat the derivative work's author chose to write and modify
> the work OR in any format that could demonstrably be translated back
> and forth to one of those formats without loss of information."
This wording is even worse than "source format", IMHO.
--
.''
27;t free, as you can't sell the software.
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.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
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the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of
the
operating system on which the executable runs, unless that
component
itself accompanies the executable.
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.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' : [EMAIL PR
there isn't a
written offer to get this source, this is a violation of the GPL.
Regards,
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
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; already have enough stuff in the archive with no point at all; their
> mere existence is sufficient)
Shouldn't packages that require something outside the archive, be it
free or not, be in contrib?
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' : [EM
Lame and libfaad2 are patent-encumbered and cannot be shipped.
Regards,
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
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think this makes the dependent applications become
subject to the GPL? Is a non-GPL-compatible application making use of
gnome-vfs violating the license?
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: :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'[EMAIL PRO
Some artists unhappy with the wording of the (L)GPL are looking for free
art licenses, with or without copyleft. What would your recommendations
for such licenses be? The BSD or Artistic licenses look fine for the
latter case, but how about the former?
--
.''`. Jossel
Le vendredi 28 avril 2006 à 10:33 +1000, Andrew Donnellan a écrit :
> Section 8 - French law - seems to make it non-free by DFSG standards.
We've never considered choice of law as non-free. Such clauses are
considered moot in most juridictions anyway.
--
.''`.
dn't have anything to do with
regard to patents. We should entirely ignore them unless directly
threatened, and such issues that depend so much on the country should be
up to the end-user to deal with.
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: :'
o become a project leader. This was obviously
wrong. You haven't changed a bit, and such attitude may be a standard
for a part of the ftp-master team, but it is not responsible behavior
from the DPL.
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AFAICT.
But this would have meant transparency and public discussion, respecting
the social contract, and so on. All these secondary issues AJ doesn't
want to deal with.
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`. `'
actions from Sun? I don't feel like thanking anyone for
that.
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power to do that.
By the way, they also have the power to accept GNOME 2.14 in main. Don't
you think that would have been more productive than accepting the Sun
JVM?
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
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`. `'
ions with companies like Sun can indeed benefit the
project. Involving the whole project by force doesn't.
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ocial organization" that happens to produce very interesting
> technical works.
I find it very sad that people can get this impression after coming to
Debconf.
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.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'
is is going to happen.
> How can someone force the inclusion when he's ultimately the one which
> decides if the software can go in or not?
Please stop playing with words. If you don't want to discuss about this
matter, just don't do it.
--
.''`. Jos
can't name it otherwise after seeing their behavior
IRL) is treating other developers as second-class contributors who
should just do as they say.
Re-read the constitution. By several aspects, Debian *is* a democracy.
Some developers are ignoring it, but this is something that should
GNOME 2.14
because packages are stuck in NEW. They are generally considering the
rest of developers like a boss with his employees.
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
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Oaxtepec have learnt that Java thing by reading the
mailing lists. This is even more frustrating when the people who took
this decision are a few meters away.
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`. `'[EMAIL
ffmpeg. I
> appreciated your help with that technical question. I would
> really appreciate your help with this more profound question
> of what is the essence of Debian?
The essence of Debian should be free software and technical excellence.
I am afraid this is no more a priority
al list.
Despite all of that, he's written a pretty good summary of the
situation. You can add all personal attacks you want, that won't change.
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`. `'[EMAI
users who make mailing
lists live?
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torneys fees and expenses.
>
> Choice of venue, which is non-free.
I still think choice of venue is, at best, unenforceable outside the US.
Not everyone here find such clauses to be non-free.
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`
in development is irrelevant, you might want to
> give some thought to the question of why a non-developer making demands of
> anyone might be seen as doubly-inappropriate.
How about stopping the discussions about who is a developer or not, who
has the right to discuss or not,
only one thing we got to know: your
> opinion, which is, basicly, "GPL or nothing". No need to go on trolling
> around... everyone has got your point.
If you haven't followed the discussions, you probably don't have to tell
the whole world about it.
--
.''`.
the fact it has been expressed by non-developers.
> We are not through with this issue, and it will be solved in the near
> future.
What makes you believe this "will be solved in the near future"?
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\
Le lundi 05 juin 2006 à 19:51 +1000, Anthony Towns a écrit :
> On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 12:58:45PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > Le mercredi 31 mai 2006 ? 15:01 +1000, Anthony Towns a ?crit :
> > > Please note that Walter does not speak for the Debian project, and is not
gt; Choice of venue, which is non-free.
>
> > I still think choice of venue is, at best, unenforceable outside the US.
>
> Why do you think so?
Maybe I don't want to lose time to explain it to people who say:
> > Not everyone here find such clauses to be non-free.
>
&
ns that I cannot accept to be bound by this
> license.
This is because you are misinterpreting it.
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
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`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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ntal features of Free
> Software.
This indeed makes a lot of sense. Not only does the license ask to
respect the law, it is terminated when you violate any kind of law or
regulation. I stand corrected.
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.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
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cense itself.
Thanks for this update, especially the preamble one. I think this
addresses most if not all of the concerns regarding distributability.
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED
d SPI's
> attorney as to the validity of your concerns, or having contacted me as
> DPL or the archive administrators privately first, either.
Well, when the DPL is ignoring the developers' opinions, why would the
SPI president care of the SPI members' op
you need to be a DD to spot a problem with a license? No. Fortunately,
most DDs can, unlike you, accept that this is a real problem even if the
person spotting it is not a Chosen One.
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'
here to
"retaliate" against false claims, so this is reasonable. I don't know
about corner cases, though.
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Le vendredi 28 juillet 2006 à 23:36 +0200, Pierre Habouzit a écrit :
> Le ven 28 juillet 2006 23:26, Josselin Mouette a écrit :
> > Le vendredi 28 juillet 2006 à 22:40 +0200, Pierre Habouzit a écrit :
> > > > It would be interesting to start a formal enquiry if this applies
is country. Replacing the text by a 'this software cannot return
"schily" because it would infringe on Jörg Schilling's trademark' notice
- or no notice at all - would seem like a fine solution.
After all, it isn't allowed to display "(c) Microsoft corp." in
I think the problem is more about GPL-compatibility than about
DFSG-freeness. DFSG #4 already allows licenses forbidding re-use of the
name or version number, and this isn't much a different case here.
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
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`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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.
The only issue here is a trademark one, but as the icon is used to
reference firefox itself, I'd have guessed it is allowed. I'm CCing
debian-legal, as this has been discussed to death and I guess someone
will have more clues than myself.
--
.''`. Jossel
mix of GPL and LGPL, and practically speaking it has
the effects of the GPL. This is of course perfectly free.
Cheers,
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
`- Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom
rsion of the logo
> done with adobe illustrator, which is not under a free license, and if
> the logo in gnome-themes-extra appears to be based on this logo, and
> saved with sodipodi, there is a problem.
Where can I download it? I'll check if it is the same.
--
.'
Le jeudi 28 septembre 2006 à 15:37 +0200, Josselin Mouette a écrit :
> Le jeudi 28 septembre 2006 à 15:02 +0200, Mike Hommey a écrit :
> > > I think I agree with that. It's not subject to the firefox copyright,
> > > as far as I know, and it's an honest use of the t
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