On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 23:35 -0300, Mark Boon wrote:
> I'm not sure if it's wise to ignore games lost on time. For a MCTS
> program it makes sense to adjust the time taken for the move based on
> its perceived chance of winning. But that means a program is more
> likely to lose on time because it's
I'm not sure if it's wise to ignore games lost on time. For a MCTS
program it makes sense to adjust the time taken for the move based on
its perceived chance of winning. But that means a program is more
likely to lose on time because it's losing anyway, and that judgement
involves the komi.
7:03 PM
> > To: Erik van der Werf
> > Cc: computer-go
> > Subject: Re: [computer-go] 7.5-komi for 9x9 in Beijing
> >
> >
> > Let me check CGOS statistics based on relatively evenly match
> > opponents and I will filter out players that are pretty weak.
t; To: Erik van der Werf
> Cc: computer-go
> Subject: Re: [computer-go] 7.5-komi for 9x9 in Beijing
>
>
> Let me check CGOS statistics based on relatively evenly match
> opponents and I will filter out players that are pretty weak. Then
> I'll present the data.
>
>
Let me check CGOS statistics based on relatively evenly match opponents
and I will filter out players that are pretty weak. Then I'll present
the data.
CGOS is not really a democracy, but I do care about the wishes of the
program authors. So after I show some data, if it's highly in favor
of
Maybe we could just do a vote?
Erik
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 11:56 PM, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 22:43 +0200, Erik van der Werf wrote:
>> > The only reason I would favor one over the other
>> > is if it turned out that in "practical play" the games ended up
>> c
On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 22:43 +0200, Erik van der Werf wrote:
> > I believe 6.5 would give black a bigger advantage than 7.5 gives
> white in "practical play."
>
> This may be true for your CGOS games.
>
I did a quick check on CGOS 9x9 and white wins 52.05%
I did not filter based on strength,
On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 22:43 +0200, Erik van der Werf wrote:
> > The only reason I would favor one over the other
> > is if it turned out that in "practical play" the games ended up
> closer.
> > For instance if black won a 53% at 6.5 komi and white wins 51% at
> 7.5
> > komi, I would favor 7.5 beca
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 3:46 PM, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is there any way to prove that with best play the game cannot end in
> seki?
It seems like most reasonable sequences in Chinese rules 4x4 go end in
a whole-board seki. I would expect that for 19x19 go, some avenues of
best pla
As programs become stronger the advantage for one side with fractional
komi will inevitably become totally unbalanced. At some point we will
approach 100% and then I rather have that go to the first player. The
only fair alternative is to use integer komi.
Or a bigger board.
___
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 9:46 PM, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 11:47 -0700, Christoph Birk wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Oct 2008, Don Dailey wrote:
>> > much more common.There were just a few games that used 6.5 komi
>> > because when I first started CGOS I had set 6.5 by
> From: Gunnar Farnebäck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> I suspect that quite a few of the odd scores are not due to the
> presence of seki with an odd number of neutral points but are caused
> by uncaptured dead stones.
Which program (or programs) is most reliable at determining life-and-death and
seki
I agree that the komi should not be changed unless there is a very
compelling reason. My engine would have to be entirely recreated to
support a different komi and I only want to maintain one engine for
each boardsize.
- George
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 3:46 PM, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
On Wed, 8 Oct 2008, Don Dailey wrote:
On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 11:47 -0700, Christoph Birk wrote:
On Wed, 8 Oct 2008, Don Dailey wrote:
much more common.There were just a few games that used 6.5 komi
because when I first started CGOS I had set 6.5 by mistake but I think
that was just for a few
On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 20:56 +0200, Gunnar Farnebäck wrote:
> Don Dailey wrote:
> > On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 15:18 +0200, Erik van der Werf wrote:
> >> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> I had heard somewhere that there are some who believe 8.0 is the right
>
On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 11:47 -0700, Christoph Birk wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2008, Don Dailey wrote:
> > much more common.There were just a few games that used 6.5 komi
> > because when I first started CGOS I had set 6.5 by mistake but I think
> > that was just for a few hours at most. The vast m
Don Dailey wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 15:18 +0200, Erik van der Werf wrote:
>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> I had heard somewhere that there are some who believe 8.0 is the right
>>> komi for 9x9 Chinese. I personally believed for a long time it
On Wed, 8 Oct 2008, Don Dailey wrote:
much more common.There were just a few games that used 6.5 komi
because when I first started CGOS I had set 6.5 by mistake but I think
that was just for a few hours at most. The vast majority of these are
7.5 komi games:
After all this discussion abou
On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 15:18 +0200, Erik van der Werf wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I had heard somewhere that there are some who believe 8.0 is the right
> > komi for 9x9 Chinese. I personally believed for a long time it was 7.0
> > based on st
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I had heard somewhere that there are some who believe 8.0 is the right
> komi for 9x9 Chinese. I personally believed for a long time it was 7.0
> based on statistical data of games.However that can be misleading.
Do you
I had heard somewhere that there are some who believe 8.0 is the right
komi for 9x9 Chinese. I personally believed for a long time it was 7.0
based on statistical data of games.However that can be misleading.
I noticed with CGOS data that White has a very slight edge with 7.5 but
I also noti
It seems likely now that the correct komi for 9x9 is 7.0. If so, I'd prefer
6.5 komi to 7.5, since 6.5 would have black winning most games, and most
other games have a first player advantage. This would give 9x9 go a similar
first player advantage.
David
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL
>From all we know so far it is most likely that perfect komi is 7.0.
Even numbers lik 6.0 and 8.0 are unlikely because they always require
a seki with an odd number of shared liberties (in all optimal lines!).
Since IMO the first player should have a chance to win it seems
natural to set the komi
Ingo Althöfer wrote:
> Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>> I'd have some preference for playing the decisive game
>> with komi = 6.5, but apparently thats not possible on KGS.
>
> But that should not be a problem, as long as the operators
> do not believe in the final verdict of KGS.
But KGS will tel
>> I think with komi = 7.5 white
>> is scoring very high (too high?) in the top games.
> ...
> Looking only at games among the top 5 rankers
> there are 20 games so far (including two tiebreak-games)
> with 15 wins for White and 5 Wins for Black.
>
> Looking at all games among the top 7 rankers
>
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