Re: ANN: CDT - The Clojure Debugging Toolkit

I agree with Laurent, this looks very cool. It's great that you are making it a text/repl interface because that means it's decoupled from any particular editor and can easily be used as a base for gui debuggers in different editors and IDEs. /Markus On Jul 7, 7:39 am, George Jahad wrote: > Than

Re: Counterclockwise version 0.0.59.RC2

2010/7/7 Brian Goslinga : > Indentation in default structural mode would be nice. > > The behavior for ), ], and } from strict structural mode should be > moved into default mode; without it, I have to do a lot of deleting > extra characters or manually move the cursor around, which makes > default

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

This thread has prompted me to accelerate my work on a wiki for Clojure beginners. It's now up, with a discussion forum, a way for you to contribute articles, and a link to my delicious.com Clojure links (over 160!). Please check it out at - http://www.gettingclojure.com Please check it out. I

Re: ANN: CDT - The Clojure Debugging Toolkit

Thanks for the heads up, (and for the compliment,) Laurent. I should have checked it out more carefully beforehand. I'm probably going to leave it as it is for now, until I see how much interest there is. As you may have suspected, I'm an Emacs user and so don't know much about Eclipse. But I k

Re: Java3d and clojure?

On Jul 6, 2010, at 10:07 , Thomas Kjeldahl Nilsson wrote: > Hello Heinz, > > I'm currently playing around with Penumbra, an OpenGL wrapper for Clojure. It > cuts away some incidental complexity in OpenGL, renames/binds to > cleaner/simpler naming conventions and makes OpenGL feel more "functi

inconsistent behaviour when resolving java classes

Hi, The following seems like it was not intended, please let me know if it is intended. user> (use 'clojure.test) user> (testing (defrecord R []) (new R) ) [exception: Unable to resolve classname: R] user> (defrecord R []) (new R) [ok] now, if we use the full class name, it works: (testing

Re: Counterclockwise version 0.0.59.RC2

Indentation in default structural mode would be nice. The behavior for ), ], and } from strict structural mode should be moved into default mode; without it, I have to do a lot of deleting extra characters or manually move the cursor around, which makes default mode almost unusable. -- You recei

Re: --> macro proposal

> And I don't think you should be ashamed to admit that. That's a relief! ;-) > helpful learning tool, or "training wheels" if you will, is not only > prudent, but shows that people find the placeholder syntax > of --> to be intuitive. I should say that while I do think that the ,,, trick could

Re: A problem on java class import

I thought my problem again. The import code is unavoidable. the clj- imports script is really help :-) On Jul 7, 6:17 am, Timothy Pratley wrote: > This works great for looking up > classes:http://dishevelled.net/Generating-Clojure-import-lines-using-SLIME.html >

Re: --> macro proposal

I think I've gotten too involved in this not-very-important debate for my own good. :-D So just FYI, this will be my last response. If you want a reply from me please contact me off-list. If I offended anyone, you have my apologies. May the force be with you, - Greg -- You received this mes

Re: --> macro proposal

> The use of the commas helped it to click for me a long time ago And I don't think you should be ashamed to admit that. The threading macros are not intuitive, and the comma trick *is* useful to help in learning them. Rich said: > I think that is a terrible practice and should be left out of t

Re: --> macro proposal

> I think that is a terrible practice and should be left out of the book. Sold! It gives us enough room to put the infix example back in. :O ;-) :f -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googl

Re: --> macro proposal

> Once they read it, I think it becomes intuitive. Again, even The Joy > of Clojure points out that people use commas with -> and ->> to > indicate the location of the parameter. This is no different, except it Well "The Joy of Clojure" is clearly wrong! Actually, the latest version says "You can

Re: --> macro proposal

On Jul 6, 2010, at 8:02 PM, Michał Marczyk wrote: On 7 July 2010 00:36, Greg wrote: Again, even The Joy of Clojure points out that people use commas with -> and ->> to indicate the location of the parameter. I think that is a terrible practice and should be left out of the book. Rich

Re: --> macro proposal

On 7 July 2010 00:36, Greg wrote: > Again, even The Joy of Clojure points out that people use commas with -> and > ->> to indicate the location of the parameter. I've yet to see someone actually doing this (and I'm including the Authors here). Sincerely, Michał -- You received this message be

Re: --> macro proposal

> Now *that's* a reasonable and rational argument against including -->. :-) On second thought, I don't think it is. I know I said I'd let it rest, and I *am* letting it rest in that I've resigned myself to the understanding that you've made your decision and don't have plans on changing it. Bu

Re: --> macro proposal

> As a Lisp newcomer (your trailing parens give you away) I'm a newcomer to Clojure, not Lisp. I trail my parens because I think it results in more readable code, and I'm pretty sure I have good reasons for thinking so. They will continue to be trailed, and don't bother trying to suggest otherw

Re: auto-indent in Counterclockwise

Laurent PETIT writes: >> I think it's a good feature, *if* typing the closing bracket/paren just >> resulted in "cursoring over" the one that'd already been inserted. > > ? See the Emacs function `move-past-close-and-reindent'. It works as the obvious counterpart to the function `insert-parethes

Counterclockwise version 0.0.59.RC2

Hi, Since some discussions related to counterclockwise have started on this ml, I thought it would be best to report status related to these discussions here. I've implemented most of what have been discussed in version 0.0.59.RC2. The precise list of fixed issues/enhancements can be consulted h

Re: A problem on java class import

This works great for looking up classes: http://dishevelled.net/Generating-Clojure-import-lines-using-SLIME.html You can just call the function from the REPL if you don't use SLIME Hope that helps

Re: --> macro proposal

On Jul 6, 2010, at 5:24 PM, Greg wrote: This would be most likely java interop, ie. ->. There the main arguments are 99% of the times the first or the last ones. So -> or ->> will work OK, so what happens when one of the functions takes it in the front, and the other in the back? Or wha

Re: --> macro proposal

On 6 July 2010 22:24, Greg wrote: >> This would be most likely java interop, ie. ->. >> There the main arguments are 99% of the times the first or the last ones. So >> -> or ->> will work > > OK, so what happens when one of the functions takes it in the front, and the > other in the back? > > Or

Re: --> macro proposal

On 6 July 2010 22:02, Greg wrote: > Greg you're enthusiasm is appreciated. But this ML is filled with talented > and smart people who have an equal grasp of logic and reason who have been > using Clojure for a couple years now and they aren't clamoring to your nice > snippet of code. That's someth

Re: --> macro proposal

Hi, Am 06.07.2010 um 23:24 schrieb Greg: >> This would be most likely java interop, ie. ->. >> There the main arguments are 99% of the times the first or the last ones. So >> -> or ->> will work > > OK, so what happens when one of the functions takes it in the front, and the > other in the bac

Re: --> macro proposal

On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Scott Jaderholm wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Greg wrote: > >> > This would be most likely java interop, ie. ->. >> > There the main arguments are 99% of the times the first or the last >> ones. So -> or ->> will work >> >> OK, so what happens when on

Re: --> macro proposal

On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Greg wrote: > > This would be most likely java interop, ie. ->. > > There the main arguments are 99% of the times the first or the last ones. > So -> or ->> will work > > OK, so what happens when one of the functions takes it in the front, and > the other in the ba

Re: --> macro proposal

Thanks for the reply Nicolas! I might do that if I have more to offer than a single macro, as of now I think it'd be weird to create a clojar just for that. It's easily accessible for anyone who searches the list though (or thinks of it themselves, as others have done). :-) The code is pretty

Re: --> macro proposal

> This would be most likely java interop, ie. ->. > There the main arguments are 99% of the times the first or the last ones. So > -> or ->> will work OK, so what happens when one of the functions takes it in the front, and the other in the back? Or what happens when you're using a piece of cod

Re: --> macro proposal

Reading this thread, I realized how happy I was that I use a Lisp where anyone can create its own language construct with a new macro. Greg, put that macro in a repository and in a jar on clojar, easily accessible from lein, and maybe people will use it. (I never had the need for something like

Re: --> macro proposal

On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Greg wrote: > > I'll make a list here of the reasons given for Yay/Nay so far: > > Nay: > > 1) "I haven't had a need for a general threading macro." > 2) The response so far is negative (and consists of repeating point #1 > above). > 3) It would encourage people t

Re: --> macro proposal

Hi, Am 06.07.2010 um 20:09 schrieb Greg: > On Jul 6, 2010, at 2:01 PM, Stuart Halloway wrote: > >> (1) Clojure APIs are very careful about parameter order. > > And what if you want to use a function outside of the Clojure API? This would be most likely java interop, ie. ->. > Or a function *

Re: --> macro proposal

> Greg you're enthusiasm is appreciated. But this ML is filled with talented > and smart people who have an equal grasp of logic and reason who have been > using Clojure for a couple years now and they aren't clamoring to your nice > snippet of code. That's something to consider. It is indeed.

Re: --> macro proposal

On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 16:16:37 -0400 Greg wrote: > > Have you checked for those? > > No, sorry, I think that's a rather unreasonable request. I'm not going to > spend hours sifting through the core and contrib just to jerk out examples > for you. > > I'd rather use logic and reason to make my ca

Re: --> macro proposal

On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Greg wrote: > > Have you checked for those? > > No, sorry, I think that's a rather unreasonable request. I'm not going to > spend hours sifting through the core and contrib just to jerk out examples > for you. > > I'd rather use logic and reason to make my case. >

Re: --> macro proposal

On 07/06/2010 04:16 PM, Greg wrote: Have you checked for those? No, sorry, I think that's a rather unreasonable request. I'm not going to spend hours sifting through the core and contrib just to jerk out examples for you. I'd rather use logic and reason to make my case. I don't think

Re: --> macro proposal

On Jul 6, 2010, at 3:16 PM, Greg wrote: >> Have you checked for those? > > No, sorry, I think that's a rather unreasonable request. I'm not going to > spend hours sifting through the core and contrib just to jerk out examples > for you. > > I'd rather use logic and reason to make my case. It'

Re: Getting Clojure into the workplace, how do you do it?

Initially I taught myself Clojure because it is a lot of fun. That lead me to using it for prototyping a currency trading application and since it worked well we just kept using Clojure for that. Some customers don't care about the technology as long as the app is earning them money. I also looked

Re: --> macro proposal

> Have you checked for those? No, sorry, I think that's a rather unreasonable request. I'm not going to spend hours sifting through the core and contrib just to jerk out examples for you. I'd rather use logic and reason to make my case. - Greg On Jul 6, 2010, at 4:14 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > O

Re: --> macro proposal

> You know, just because you wrote a macro that you love and it works > for you, doesn't mean it should get into clojure.core :) I agree 100%, which is why I've explained the reasons for the suggestion. I did not simply say "OMG I made this awesome macro now include it!" I gave explicit reasons

Re: --> macro proposal

We try to keep a civil tone here; please do likewise. On Jul 6, 11:36 am, Greg wrote: > On Jul 6, 2010, at 2:26 PM, Wilson MacGyver wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Stuart Halloway > > wrote: > >> In my experience, unneeded versatility == support headache. > > > I couldn't agree m

Re: --> macro proposal

On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 14:09:18 -0400 Greg wrote: > On Jul 6, 2010, at 2:01 PM, Stuart Halloway wrote: > > (3) I haven't seen a lot of examples where something like --> solves real > > problems in code. > > I haven't coded long enough in Clojure to provide you with any examples, but > it seems like

Re: --> macro proposal

On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Greg wrote: > On Jul 6, 2010, at 2:26 PM, Wilson MacGyver wrote: > >> On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Stuart Halloway >> wrote: >>> In my experience, unneeded versatility == support headache. >> >> I couldn't agree more. I'm happy to see selection of what goes into

Re: --> macro proposal

On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Greg wrote: > On Jul 6, 2010, at 2:26 PM, Wilson MacGyver wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Stuart Halloway > > wrote: > >> In my experience, unneeded versatility == support headache. > > > > I couldn't agree more. I'm happy to see selection of what goe

Re: --> macro proposal

On Jul 6, 2010, at 2:26 PM, Wilson MacGyver wrote: > On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Stuart Halloway > wrote: >> In my experience, unneeded versatility == support headache. > > I couldn't agree more. I'm happy to see selection of what goes into > core and contrib has become more selective. Yes

Re: --> macro proposal

On Jul 6, 2010, at 2:01 PM, Stuart Halloway wrote: > (1) Clojure APIs are very careful about parameter order. And what if you want to use a function outside of the Clojure API? Or a function *in* the Clojure API that doesn't follow the parameter order you want? > (2) -> and ->> encourage chai

Re: --> macro proposal

> It now requires an additional replace-all function (a modified replace): Oops! No it doesn't. That's from earlier experimentation that I did, and it's not necessary at all with the latest version (you'll see the --> macro doesn't even call it. :-p - Greg On Jul 6, 2010, at 1:58 PM, Greg wrot

Re: --> macro proposal

On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Stuart Halloway wrote: > In my experience, unneeded versatility == support headache. I couldn't agree more. I'm happy to see selection of what goes into core and contrib has become more selective. -- Omnem crede diem tibi diluxisse supremum. -- You received th

Re: --> macro proposal

> And it's implementation is not that trivial: Excellent point! I've modified --> so that now it's even more versatile and only evaluates the functions once. Now this is possible: user=> (--> 1 (+ 1 _) (do (println "sideeffect!") _) (hash-map :a _ :b (+ 3 _)) :b) sideeffect!

Re: --> macro proposal

(1) Clojure APIs are very careful about parameter order. (2) -> and ->> encourage chains of operations that build on that parameter order. (3) I haven't seen a lot of examples where something like --> solves real problems in code. In my experience, unneeded versatility == support headache. S

Re: Getting Clojure into the workplace, how do you do it?

Same story here... Dictatorship has definitively some value :))) Luc P. Sedit qui timuit ne non succederet. Wilson MacGyver wrote .. > my story isn't a very interesting one. I simply told everyone on the team to > learn it, because we are going to use it :) > > On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 4:50 AM

Re: Getting Clojure into the workplace, how do you do it?

Hi, Am 06.07.2010 um 10:50 schrieb Nick Mudge: > One of the things I like about Clojure is it is a way to get lisp and > functional programming into workaday programming work; into the many > places and businesses that use Java. > > I'd be very interested to hear stories or experiences of gettin

Re: Link to API document in the cheat sheet

Will Langstroth had suggested this to me in private correspondence and has built a version for his own use. I haven't (yet) had the bandwidth to investigate adding this to the autodoc cycle, but I think it's a great idea. I've also been realizing lately that the autodoc should include two other ca

Re: Getting Clojure into the workplace, how do you do it?

I don't plan to let it stop me (def typical-estimated-cost 5) (defn propose-cost-with [choice] (if (= choice "Clojure") ( * typical-estimated-cost .7) typical-estimated-cost)) > (propose-cost-with "Clojure") ... > (propose-cost-with "Other") ... In my opinion man

Re: --> macro proposal

On Jul 6, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Stuart Halloway wrote: > There is not general agreement that something like --> is more readable. (I > for one disagree, at least so far.) I'm very curious as to why as I find it hard to even fathom how you could think it's less readable to be explicit about the loc

Re: Getting Clojure into the workplace, how do you do it?

On Jul 6, 11:37 am, Edmund Jackson wrote: > An exercise in declarative programming... > > On 6 Jul 2010, at 17:15, Wilson MacGyver wrote: > > > > > > > my story isn't a very interesting one. I simply told everyone on the team to > > learn it, because we are going to use it :) > > > On Tue, Jul 6,

Re: Getting Clojure into the workplace, how do you do it?

An exercise in declarative programming... On 6 Jul 2010, at 17:15, Wilson MacGyver wrote: > my story isn't a very interesting one. I simply told everyone on the team to > learn it, because we are going to use it :) > > On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 4:50 AM, Nick Mudge wrote: >> One of the things I lik

Re: Getting Clojure into the workplace, how do you do it?

my story isn't a very interesting one. I simply told everyone on the team to learn it, because we are going to use it :) On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 4:50 AM, Nick Mudge wrote: > One of the things I like about Clojure is it is a way to get lisp and > functional programming into workaday programming wor

Re: --> macro proposal

Hi, On Jul 6, 5:47 pm, Stuart Halloway wrote: > There is not general agreement that something like --> is more readable. (I > for one disagree, at least so far.) And it's implementation is not that trivial: user=> (macroexpand '(--> (launch-rockets-if-called-twice) (call :first _ :second _)))

Re: Getting Clojure into the workplace, how do you do it?

Nick, I'm not doing proper paid work in Clojure yet, but I convinced my department manager that learning Clojure on company time was ok. So that's a start at least. :) I used the concurrency features of Clojure as a main selling point, as well as the value of getting started early on in promising

Re: --> macro proposal

There is not general agreement that something like --> is more readable. (I for one disagree, at least so far.) Stu > On Jul 6, 2010, at 8:23 AM, Meikel Brandmeyer wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> this comes up once in a while. See eg. here for an in-depth >> discussion: >> http://groups.google.com/grou

Re: Getting Clojure into the workplace, how do you do it?

On Jul 6, 4:50 am, Nick Mudge wrote: > One of the things I like about Clojure is it is a way to get lisp and > functional programming into workaday programming work; into the many > places and businesses that use Java. > > I'd be very interested to hear stories or experiences of getting > Clojur

Re: Java3d and clojure?

FWIW, jMonkeyEngine is the best opensource game engine for Java that I'm aware of, it also uses lwjgl like penumbra. A brief mention of using it with clojure can be found here: http://nakkaya.com/2010/05/25/jmonkeyengine-hello-world-in-clojure/ - Greg On Jul 6, 2010, at 3:58 AM, Heinz N. Gies

Re: --> macro proposal

On Jul 6, 2010, at 8:23 AM, Meikel Brandmeyer wrote: > Hi, > > this comes up once in a while. See eg. here for an in-depth > discussion: > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/66ff0b89229be894/c3d4a6dae45d4852 So why hasn't it been incorporated yet into the standard libra

Next meeting for the NYC clojure users group @google is a week away...

Here are some ideas for presentations for the next NYC Clojure meetup: Development environments: We have already had a demo on Netbeans with Enclojure. If you use Emacs, IntelliJ or Eclipse, it would be great to see a demo of how those environments work. Are you the author or user of a Clojure lib

A problem on java class import

I write a swing wrapper for fun. http://gist.github.com/465370 It work well. (eg. http://gist.github.com/465323, http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/components/button.html ButtonDemo example) But there is a small problem troubling me. I must import the Event Listener where I use my

Getting Clojure into the workplace, how do you do it?

One of the things I like about Clojure is it is a way to get lisp and functional programming into workaday programming work; into the many places and businesses that use Java. I'd be very interested to hear stories or experiences of getting Clojure into the workplace and how it was done. That is,

Re: auto-indent in Counterclockwise

2010/7/6 Lee Spector : > > On Jul 6, 2010, at 1:35 AM, Laurent PETIT wrote: >> >> Seems like people definitely don't like automatic closing bracket >> insertion in the default mode. Guess I'm gonna remove this from the >> default mode then, if it does more harm than anything ... > > > Will there st

Re: auto-indent in Counterclockwise

On Jul 6, 2010, at 1:35 AM, Laurent PETIT wrote: > > Seems like people definitely don't like automatic closing bracket > insertion in the default mode. Guess I'm gonna remove this from the > default mode then, if it does more harm than anything ... Will there still be auto-indenting during typi

Re: --> macro proposal

Hi, this comes up once in a while. See eg. here for an in-depth discussion: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/66ff0b89229be894/c3d4a6dae45d4852 Note, that you can ease your pain a little with #(): (-> 3 (#(+ 1 % 4)) (#(prn "answer:" %))). This is rather ugly, though. S

--> macro proposal

I love the -> and ->> macros, but the problem with them is that you're limited to the functions you can use. Either all of the functions must be functions where the argument is passed as the first argument, or they must all be functions where it's passed in at the end. I'm making my way through

Re: How Do I Tell Clojure Which Classloader to Use?

I found the answer and fixed it and it works! Yes, *use-context-classloader* is true by default. But, the context classloader wasn't the right classloader, so I had to set context classloader to the right classloader, at the right place before any clojure code is called like this: Thread.currentT

Re: auto-indent in Counterclockwise

2010/7/6 Chas Emerick : > > On Jul 6, 2010, at 1:35 AM, Laurent PETIT wrote: > >> 2010/7/6 Sean Corfield : >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Sean Corfield >>> wrote: No, I hadn't found it painful in my brief run around with CCW over the last few days... I hadn't even noticed t

Re: auto-indent in Counterclockwise

On Jul 6, 2010, at 1:35 AM, Laurent PETIT wrote: 2010/7/6 Sean Corfield : On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Sean Corfield wrote: No, I hadn't found it painful in my brief run around with CCW over the last few days... I hadn't even noticed the defaults were different :| And I should proba

Re: ANN: CDT - The Clojure Debugging Toolkit

Oh, and btw, impressive work ! :) 2010/7/6 Laurent PETIT : > Hi George, > > a quick word concerning the name: FYI, CDT, in the Eclipse world, in a > name taken a long time ago to mean "C/C++ Development Tools". Make > what you want with this info :) > > 2010/7/6 George Jahad : >> My experiment wit

Re: Java3d and clojure?

Hello Heinz, I'm currently playing around with Penumbra, an OpenGL wrapper for Clojure. It cuts away some incidental complexity in OpenGL, renames/binds to cleaner/simpler naming conventions and makes OpenGL feel more "functional programming-ish". See http://github.com/ztellman/penumbra to get st

Java3d and clojure?

Greetings my lispy friends, since google only turned up very trivial expamels. Is there anyone who works with 3d in clojure? Any experiences wrappers or the like? Regards, Heinz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group,

Re: ANN: CDT - The Clojure Debugging Toolkit

Hi George, a quick word concerning the name: FYI, CDT, in the Eclipse world, in a name taken a long time ago to mean "C/C++ Development Tools". Make what you want with this info :) 2010/7/6 George Jahad : > My experiment with the JDI: > > > http://georgejahad.com/clojure/cdt.html > > -- > You rec