Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)

2015-07-14 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 7/14/2015 11:27 AM, Paul Koning wrote: > >> On Jul 14, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote: >> >> ... >> Using the structural / gate level techniques, one does run into some >> issues, most of which have (or will probably have) solutions: >> &g

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)

2015-07-14 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 7/14/2015 12:17 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > I'm missing something in this discussion, I think. > > HDL's (take your pick) are just programming languages like FORTRAN or C > with different constraints. What's the point of going to all the > trouble of doing an FPGA implementation of a slow old a

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)

2015-07-14 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 7/14/2015 2:27 PM, tony duell wrote: > >> That sounds like a bug in the original. If you have a set of flops clocked >> by some signal, and it matters that the >> outputs don’t all change at the same time, then the original wasn’t reliable >> either. > > It is very poor design, and not s

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)

2015-07-14 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 7/14/2015 2:56 PM, tony duell wrote: >> >> I would modify that: if you take an existing design created by someone who >> doesn’t think about delay >> differences, then the FPGA version won’t work. Consider the 6600: at the >> speeds involved, you can’t >> design in that sloppy fashion. S

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)

2015-07-14 Thread Jay Jaeger
Sometimes it is fun to be a relative expert on an obscure branch of knowledge that few people are even aware of. I worked on one when I was a student, as an operator, programmer and systems programmer. Tweaked its FORTRAN compiler to spit out text error messages instead of just error codes. The

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)

2015-07-14 Thread Jay Jaeger
The 12-bit computer that I "translated" originally had *independent* 1 micro-second clocks in each of four racks. The processor derived a 3 micro-second clock from that, but also a second clock that was out of phase with the CPU master clock, used to sync. signals coming in from the other racks (w

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology

2015-07-14 Thread Jay Jaeger
Almost sounds like the CPU was kind of an "attached processor" - similar to the way vector processors have been implemented by IBM and others. On 7/14/2015 5:28 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 07/14/2015 02:53 PM, William Donzelli wrote: >>> Again, you're missing the point. >> >> This was a fairly spe

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)

2015-07-14 Thread Jay Jaeger
8:31 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 07/14/2015 04:49 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: > >> Not necessarily. For example, it is impossible to find an IBM 1410, as >> far as I know. But there ARE 1415 consoles I knew of a while back, and >> there are certainly 729s and 1403 printers a

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)

2015-07-14 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 7/14/2015 11:16 AM, ben wrote: > > Here is the link you have been waiting for, IBM 1130 in FPGA and in the > FLESH. > http://ibm1130.blogspot.ca/ > > Ben. Thanks for that link. It looks very interesting after a quick glance. I am sure that I will run into many of the same issues with the SMS

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)

2015-07-14 Thread Jay Jaeger
7/14/2015 10:10 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 07/14/2015 06:55 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: > >> Architecturally, it was pretty much the last of its kind: the last of >> the BCD decimal arithmetic machines, which also makes it interesting. >> It has also become much more obscure tha

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology

2015-07-14 Thread Jay Jaeger
I wonder if there is anywhere near enough information available to do a Stretch. JRJ On 7/14/2015 6:53 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote: > > From: Jay Jaeger > > > I am going to attempt to do the same for IBM's 1410 computer - a really > > big effort. > > Now,

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)

2015-07-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
or the IBM 1410 - reproduce the actual machine logic. Compare/contrast what you referred to to the documents at: http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/ibm/1410/drawings/ On 7/15/2015 12:10 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 07/14/2015 09:16 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: > >> Other th

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)

2015-07-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
I suggest that this is really somewhere in between, but MUCH closer to the "original design" than to "if you design a circuit for an FPGA". After all, in an FPGA, the original SMS cards from the IBM 1400/7000 series would not be present - so in that sense, nothing is really taking the original desi

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)

2015-07-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
1440s and 1460s were architecturally 1401s (much as the 7010 is architecturally a 1410 - software compatible). I have not heard of a 1450 anywhere, but seem to recall hearing about at least one 1460 and see photos of them online. On 7/15/2015 12:26 AM, William Donzelli wrote: >> In the 7000 seri

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)

2015-07-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
I remember when U Wisconsin ECE got their PDP-11/20 and I saw DOS FORTRAN get stuck for the very first time. I told the more senior student who was responsible for getting things going, preparing documentation, etc. that the machine was in a loop, and never coming out. He laughed at me, claiming

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)

2015-07-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
was about conserving memory. On 7/15/2015 1:14 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 07/15/2015 10:48 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote: >> Lots of machines supported variable length operands (like the machine >> you reference in the link, IBM S/360, Burroughs, etc. etc. However, >> machines with variabl

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)

2015-07-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
Catalog of programs revealed the emulator you referred to: 1620-13.0.016 (also 160-13.0.018) 141 Data Processing System - An educational Computer for Instruction in Basic Programming. http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/1620/GC20-1603-10_1620_Catalog_of_Programs_Jan71.pdf JRJ On 7/15/2015

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)

2015-07-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
variable length. Again, while that was true from the perspective of variable length data fields, it wasn't from the perspective of variable length instructions. On 7/15/2015 2:42 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 07/15/2015 11:29 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote: >> Sigh. Again, the difference

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)

2015-07-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 7/15/2015 4:45 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 07/15/2015 01:49 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: >> That would certainly be closer than any of the other examples that have >> been thrown in the discussion. But it, of course, is much newer than >> the 1400 series. IIRC, the discussion

Re: Time to dig out some of my DEC XX2247 keys

2015-07-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
Holy cow. On 7/15/2015 3:49 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > http://www.ebay.com/itm/281749697289 >

Re: Time to dig out some of my DEC XX2247 keys

2015-07-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
One size fits very many, but not all. I know for sure that the PDP-8/L, PDP-8/m, PDP-12, PDP-11/20, PDP-11/40, PDP-11/45 and VAX-11/780 all use the same xx2247 key. My PDP-11/24 has a silly plastic "anti static" key, but the xx2247 works there, too. But my PDP-11/05 and GT40 use a different kind

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)

2015-07-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
s the tapes *analog* using a 7 track drive, and then post-processes the results to de-skew and recover the data. JRJ On 7/15/2015 7:12 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 07/15/2015 04:05 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: > >> Paul adapted PUFFT (Purdue University Fast FORTRAN Translator) to do >>

Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)

2015-07-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
This brings up a good point: just because a D Flip Flop is clocked by something other than a system-wide (or subsystem-wide) clock does not turn it into a latch. Flip flops can clocked by combinatorial inputs. This can be a problematic thing of course, as they can cause glitch problems - had a co

Re: Microsoft multiuser Basic for the Altair 8800

2015-07-16 Thread Jay Jaeger
First of all, safety first when working around these power supplies. You have mains voltage exposed all over the place, including the front panel switch. What I typically do is take it all the boards out and disconnect the power supply, and pull it out. I then re-form the capacitors by taking the

ALTOS 8000-2 Boot ROM Questions

2015-07-16 Thread Jay Jaeger
OK, so I got my nice shiny Z80-A CTC chip in the mail today, stuck it into the ALTOS, and I now get the expected "%" prompt. So, one problem fixed. So, not having a real floppy with the diagnostics or CP/M image on it, I ran the Single Sided, Single Density diagnostic image on bitsavers.org/bits/

Re: PDP 11 gear finally moved

2015-07-17 Thread Jay Jaeger
It is generally a good idea to re-form electrolytic capacitors in power supplies, and to bench check the power supplies (under some kind of load) before actually applying power to the whole unit. JRJ On 7/17/2015 11:49 AM, devin davison wrote: > Devin here, I had asked for advice on how to move a

Re: PDP 11 gear finally moved

2015-07-17 Thread Jay Jaeger
Replace - no, I don't agree - especially not for those of us who don't have the kind of budget that your organization has. In my experience, for equipment of this quality and vintage, 95% or more of the time an hour to a few hours of re-forming is all that is necessary - and as Tony has pointed ou

Re: PDP 11 gear finally moved

2015-07-17 Thread Jay Jaeger
That might be a little different -- much more recent - presumably in the ear of flat screens and PCs where there have been times when manufacturers got fed bad capacitors for their boards - which then failed later. IBM replaced a whole series of motherboards in one organization that I worked at be

Re: PDP 11 gear finally moved

2015-07-17 Thread Jay Jaeger
I tend to agree with your hunch. On 7/17/2015 1:55 PM, Todd Killingsworth wrote: > I suspect part of the "swap'em ALL out" mentality comes from the 90's when > some botched industrial espionage had some of the bottom-tier cap > manufacturers using a dodgy electrolytic formula for their caps. Thes

Re: PDP 11 gear finally moved

2015-07-17 Thread Jay Jaeger
U - his PDP-11/34 most certainly does use switching power regulators. ;) On 7/17/2015 4:06 PM, John Robertson wrote: > On 07/17/2015 11:53 AM, Mouse wrote: >>> I do find this witch-hunt against capacitors to be curious, given how >>> few I've found to have failed. I suspect a lot of it comes

Re: PDP 11 gear finally moved

2015-07-18 Thread Jay Jaeger
What I am wondering about, though, is the extra current they draw while they are forming up while the power supply is running. The capacitor might survive it (not get so hot that it fails), but the things supply the higher than ordinary current to it might not. Killed a bridge rectifier on a PDP-

Re: PDP 11 gear finally moved

2015-07-19 Thread Jay jaeger
often. Of course reforming a bad capacitor, whatever the failure mode, is going to be useless. Tothwolf wrote: >On Fri, 17 Jul 2015, Jay Jaeger wrote: >> On 7/17/2015 1:33 PM, Rich Alderson wrote: >> >>>> It is generally a good idea to re-form electrolytic capacitors

Re: IBM RT memory boards

2015-07-25 Thread Jay jaeger
I have an RT and may be interested. Mike Stein wrote: >I've got 4 4Mx32 memory boards here from an old RT >(AFAIR) in case anybody has a use for them. > >Each board has 8 512Kx40 (32 bits + 8 ECC) modules >(20 pcs. 4x256). > >Edge connector is DS 42+49 > >m >

Re: Mysterious S100 SRAM card

2015-07-25 Thread Jay jaeger
That does sound like a MITS serial no. The K is for Kit as opposed to factory assembled. "drlegendre ." wrote: >What's the significance of "3462K", as is hand-written on the 8080 CPU >board? > >Is that a serial? > >On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote: > >> On 2015-Jul-25, at

RE: Microsoft multiuser Basic for the Altair 8800

2015-07-28 Thread Jay jaeger
index.php/Kip_Koon > > >> -----Original Message- >> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay Jaeger >> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 9:39 AM >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Subject: Re: Microsoft multiuser Basic for the Altair 8800

Re: Reforming capacitors (technical description, not politics)

2015-07-29 Thread Jay jaeger
Better explanation than mine. Eric Smith wrote: >Some people seem to think that "reforming" an aluminum electrolytic >capacitor is some kind of cheat, akin to zapping NiCd cells or >rejuvenating CRTs. Actually reforming is the same electrochemical >process that the manufacturer uses to "form" th

RE: PDP-1 in Verilog (Incomplete) + More

2015-07-30 Thread Jay jaeger
Sorry, not interested. My next project of that sort is for the IBM 1410. Kip Koon wrote: >Hi Jay, >I don't know if you are into Motorola microcontrollers or not, but I'm looking >for an IP core for the MC68HC11K Microcontroller as I can't find the actual >chip on ebay. Would you be interest

RE: RM 380Z Special Control Unit (?)

2015-08-01 Thread Jay jaeger
SOME of the later S100 systems had regulated supplies and then ditched the board regulators, usually leaving a place to put a regulator with just a jumper wire in place of the regulator. tony duell wrote: >> > >> > ... Which also may well not be RML original. The 380Z has a regulated PSU, >> >

Re: diagnosing an Intel Series II MDS monitor failure

2015-08-02 Thread Jay jaeger
Sounds just like the supply on my Altos. What a pain. Eric Smith wrote: >I previously wrote about the monitor of my Intel Series II MDS going >out, which was because the +15V DC supply tripped the crowbar. The >voltage adjust was all the way to the minimum, and the voltage was >still about 17.4V

Re: Booting an IBM MP 3000 S/390 System

2015-08-06 Thread Jay Jaeger
Lots of machines have had console processors that were required for the machine to run. The PDP-10 had a PDP-11 console processor. The Amdahl 470 had a DG Nova for a console processor, etc. etc. On 8/6/2015 8:16 AM, geneb wrote: > On Thu, 6 Aug 2015, Marc Verdiell wrote: > >> Wow. I'll never c

Re: Wanted: Pertec Tape Controller

2015-08-06 Thread Jay Jaeger
I wouldn't mind one as well -- I have a handful of Pertec drives that it would be nice to be able to talk to. One that handles multiple interface speeds would be a plus. I suppose I could always design one ;) On 8/6/2015 8:49 AM, Tom Moss wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm looking for a pertec contr

Re: Booting an IBM MP 3000 S/390 System

2015-08-06 Thread Jay Jaeger
Acch. All this modern/complicated stuff. Once you powered on an IBM 1410 (2 seconds), you could have it (141O O/S: 1410-PR-155) running in as little as a minute, counting the tape drive mount: Mount tape on unit 0 [30 seconds tops, as tape is probably already there] Storage Scan to +1 Sense swit

Re: Wanted: Pertec Tape Controller

2015-08-06 Thread Jay Jaeger
I would love to see that Verilog, as I have a Digilent Nexys2 (Xilinx Spartan 3E) and a Pertec drive I could play with. On 8/6/2015 11:19 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 08/06/2015 08:35 AM, Al Kossow wrote: > >> Formatted Pertec is a fairly simple interface. Chuck has talked in >> the past of design

Re: Booting an IBM MP 3000 S/390 System

2015-08-06 Thread Jay Jaeger
e disk to spin up, which was about 10 seconds. > The actual booting of the system is about 0.3 seconds. Add 5 seconds if > you had to manually enter the bootstrap. > > Johnny > > On 2015-08-06 20:43, Jay Jaeger wrote: >> Acch. All this modern/complicated stuff. Once yo

Re: Booting an IBM MP 3000 S/390 System

2015-08-06 Thread Jay Jaeger
Until that console processor fails with no backups. I seem to recall having 4 or 5 "backups" (aka operators). ;) On 8/6/2015 2:07 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Thu, 6 Aug 2015, Jay Jaeger wrote: >> Acch. All this modern/complicated stuff. Once you powered on an IBM >> 14

Re: Booting an IBM MP 3000 S/390 System

2015-08-06 Thread Jay Jaeger
enter the start address, and start the machine). On 8/6/2015 4:03 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On 2015-08-06 23:00, Jay Jaeger wrote: >> I should think that a set of manually entered bootstrap instructions >> (i.e., not on a diode ROM board) would take considerably longer than >

Re: Booting an IBM MP 3000 S/390 System

2015-08-06 Thread Jay Jaeger
blaming the console processor which was not the problem. Turned out to be a recently added power supply - which I had pointed out to them was something that changed, and something we could do without as a test. Sigh. On 8/6/2015 7:13 PM, Jon Elson wrote: > On 08/06/2015 04:01 PM, Jay Jaeger wr

Re: OT: Slow booting, was re: Booting an IBM MP 3000 S/390 System

2015-08-06 Thread Jay Jaeger
Aside from memory tests, in my experience, sometimes slowness can be caused by a disk controller ROM (often on a SCSI controller) that gets invoked during the POST that slows things down - particularly if it also enumerates what is on the SCSI bus. On 8/6/2015 7:35 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On the

Re: Booting an IBM MP 3000 S/390 System

2015-08-07 Thread Jay Jaeger
Backing up your console: Clonezilla is your friend. On 8/6/2015 10:54 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > I *really* have to figure out a backup solution for this so that I don't > get stuck but that > supposes that I have a way to re-create the OS/2 image that's already > there if I do have to > do a

Re: Classic programming

2015-08-08 Thread Jay Jaeger
If you like to play with classics like SNOBOL in their original form, then you can run SNOBOL and SPITBOL under the Hercules IBM mainframe emulator. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hercules-390/files/SNOBOL4/ http://www.snobol4.com/spitbol360/ (These days I use Perl for the stuff I used to do

Re: Classic programming

2015-08-08 Thread Jay Jaeger
thout memory management): http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Distributions/usdl/Mini-Unix/ JRJ On 8/8/2015 12:55 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 08/08/2015 08:44 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote: >> If you like to play with classics like SNOBOL in their original >> form, then you can run SNO

Re: Classic programming

2015-08-08 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/8/2015 5:47 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 08/08/2015 12:13 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: >> I have always felt that the language name is SNOBOL, with multiple >> versions, kind of like FORTRAN II (which is what the 1410 had), >> FORTRAN IV, FORTRAN V, etc., but Griswold see

Re: SCSI Tape to TAP utility

2015-08-08 Thread Jay Jaeger
If anyone is interested, I have code for a Linux SCSI tape to AWSTAPE program, and a program that translates aws format to a raw byte stream. Not sure if I have one that translates to the SimH .tap format, though. GNU C. JRJ On 8/8/2015 7:57 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > A couple of weeks ago, I off

Re: Classic programming

2015-08-09 Thread Jay Jaeger
Probably negative inspiration due to its complexity what to NOT do. ;) On 8/9/2015 4:39 AM, ANDY HOLT wrote: >> And one should not forget Algol. > 60 or 68? > > (and, for that matter, PL/1 should probably be considered an unsung > inspiration for C as it was the implementation language for

Re: SCSI Tape to TAP utility

2015-08-09 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/9/2015 12:36 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > Good OS-es allowed an operator to mount tapes for his next few jobs, > without paying attention to paper labels and have the OS automatically > locate and assign tapes to the proper job. > > Can UNIX do that? > > --Chuck > Seems dangerous to me: duplic

Re: SCSI Tape to TAP utility

2015-08-09 Thread Jay Jaeger
volve tape). The operators I worked with almost never mismounted a tape. JRJ On 8/9/2015 1:13 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 08/09/2015 10:45 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote: > >> Seems dangerous to me: duplicate data set names on different tapes would >> confuse it (plus, if the DSN is long,

Re: Apollo DN series HP root account

2015-08-10 Thread Jay Jaeger
Hmmm. Not that I recall. Seems to me that one could boot with the boot switch in service mode (so it doesn't boot right through to DOMAIN/OS, though, and you could get a shell, allowing one to use a command-line editor to edit out the offending password. If you are still stuck in a couple of day

Re: SCSI Tape to TAP utility

2015-08-10 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/9/2015 7:57 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 08/09/2015 03:03 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: > > I'd pretty much left the 360 world after DOS/360 (that really dates me), > so I couldn't comment--except that I never trusted an operator to mount > tapes, if I could do anything

Re: SCSI Tape to TAP utility

2015-08-10 Thread Jay Jaeger
=0B2v4WRwISEQRfi1TWnlKU1hqUXphWVhpZ1FKOGFoVjRPVnppX1F2aUMwTUw0QkxSNEsyMjg&usp=sharing They are anything but elegant, but have gotten the job done for me. JRU On 8/9/2015 11:57 PM, Marc Verdiell wrote: > Hey, I'll take the offer, I am interested in both. > Marc > >> Jay Ja

Re: SCSI Tape to TAP utility

2015-08-10 Thread Jay Jaeger
Glad to help. On 8/10/2015 6:14 PM, Rich Alderson wrote: > From: Jay Jaeger > Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 8:56 AM > >> The link below is to a Google Drive folder with three files that I will >> leave up for a while: > >> awstape.c - Read a SCSI tape, output in AW

Re: Writing 8" floppies with SuperCard Pro

2015-08-11 Thread Jay Jaeger
Looks interesting - kind of like a catweasel using a USB bus instead of a PCI bus. I have only used my catweasel for reading, but in theory it could write as well. As for floppy emulators on the drive side, I have an SD HxC Floppy emulator (www.lotharek.pl) which I am currently using with an Alto

Re: Writing 8" floppies with SuperCard Pro

2015-08-12 Thread Jay Jaeger
ot go to the drive, but instead are typically used inside the controller to change the timing of the write pulses. The correspondent should probably check with the SuperCard Pro folks to make sure BOTH have been implemented. It is quite possible neither have. On 8/12/2015 4:05 AM, Christian Co

Re: And speaking of ALGOL

2015-08-12 Thread Jay Jaeger
In addition, B5500/B5700 Mark XIII and B5500/B5700 MARK XV.3 release tapes can be found online. UNISYS released these under the "UNISYS MCP MARK XIII SOFTWARE EDUCATIONAL/HOBBYIST LICENSE AGREEMENT" in 2012, having been approached by the owner of the tapes. At least Mark XIII is available on Paul

Re: Writing 8" floppies with SuperCard Pro

2015-08-12 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/12/2015 3:26 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > > ...and others, such as the Siemens FDD-100 (single sided) will output an > "illegal medium" signal if double-sded floppies are inserted. > > --Chuck > Hmmm. I have an FDD-100-8 (single sided). The manual mentions no such signal and only one index se

Re: More DEC boards

2015-08-13 Thread Jay Jaeger
t;>> This might work better >>>> >>>> >>>> >> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2MOaRm-6XKNV3hENS1Hd1lURXc/view?usp=sharing >>>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 11:58 PM, jwsmobile wrote: >>>> >>>>> &

Shugart 800-8 media centering problem

2015-08-14 Thread Jay Jaeger
I have a Shugart 800-8 with a media centering problem. I know it is definitely that and not something else (say, electronics, TRK00 position, etc.), because I can see the "wobble" in the signal coming from the heads on a 'scope. Depending on how I load the floppy, the attenuation can be from noth

Re: Shugart 800-8 media centering problem

2015-08-14 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/14/2015 2:01 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Fri, 14 Aug 2015, Jay Jaeger wrote: >> I have a Shugart 800-8 with a media centering problem. I know it is >> definitely that and not something else (say, electronics, TRK00 >> position, etc.), because I can see the "wo

Re: Shugart 800-8 media centering problem

2015-08-14 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/14/2015 1:33 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 08/14/2015 09:27 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote: > >> When I look at the cartridge guide without the spindle clamp in >> place, it is now centered above the spindle, and at the same distance >> from the spindle as my drive that do

Re: Shugart 800-8 media centering problem

2015-08-14 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/14/2015 3:01 PM, tony duell wrote: > >> The clamping is not out of alignment. If it were, the results would be >> more consistent. Besides, the clamping is not really responsible for >> the alignment. It is a matter of the media relationship to the spindle >> as the clamping comes down on

Re: Shugart 800-8 media centering problem

2015-08-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/14/2015 11:56 PM, tony duell wrote: > >> There is no play in the spindle at all. Certainly not 1/2 track worth. >> Can't wiggle it at all, no visible wobble, etc. > > Not necessarily play. Anyway, half a track width is just over 10 thou > and I am not sure I could notice that amount of run

Re: Shugart 800-8 media centering problem

2015-08-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
Certainly this thing is old enough. But I don't see how it would ever work if that were the case. When the media is on center, it works flawlessly, including interchange with another drive. One thing I am going to try today is to manually center the media with the AC power disconnected (not spin

Re: Shugart 800-8 media centering problem

2015-08-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/14/2015 11:56 PM, tony duell wrote: > >> There is no play in the spindle at all. Certainly not 1/2 track worth. >> Can't wiggle it at all, no visible wobble, etc. > > Not necessarily play. Anyway, half a track width is just over 10 thou > and I am not sure I could notice that amount of ru

Re: Shugart 800-8 media centering problem

2015-08-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/15/2015 11:51 AM, tony duell wrote: > > In every 8" (and 5.25") drive that I've seen the spindle (the bit driven, > maybe > indirectly, by the motor) has a female cone on the end. There is then the > clamping > cone, often plastic which fits into it through the hole in the disk. Not so on

Re: Shugart 800-8 media centering problem

2015-08-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/15/2015 11:59 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > I went and stared at some of my 8" drives for a bit this morning. > > It occurs to me that if your top guide frame is laterally "warped", the > centering of the hub clamp assembly won't work. Agreed. But the darn thing is cast, with lots of fillets fo

Re: Shugart 800-8 media centering problem

2015-08-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/15/2015 12:32 PM, tony duell wrote: >> >> Not so on these drives. On the Shugart SA-800 series, the spindle >> (driven by a belt from a motor) has a MALE cone on the end, and the >> clamp, from above goes around it (female if you like). > > How does that work? The disk media must fit around

Re: Shugart 800-8 media centering problem

2015-08-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/15/2015 1:35 PM, tony duell wrote: > >> Not so on these drives. On the Shugart SA-800 series, the spindle >> (driven by a belt from a motor) has a MALE cone on the end, and the >> clamp, from above goes around it (female if you like). > > I have just pulled the case on one of my HP9885s, w

Re: Shugart 800-8 media centering problem

2015-08-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/15/2015 1:55 PM, tony duell wrote: > >> Certainly one of my thoughts along the way. But, the spindle cone does >> not rock or anything like that. And, I switched the clamping part out >> with another drive - neither was affected by the swap. > > It strikes me that there are 3 main subasse

Re: Shugart 800-8 media centering problem

2015-08-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/15/2015 8:31 PM, Jon Elson wrote: > > On 08/14/2015 02:58 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: No, I didn't write any of what was quoted. ;) If one is going to remove the entire message quoted, then it probably makes sense to delete the "wrote" line as well. ;) > > The way

Re: Shugart 800-8 media centering problem

2015-08-15 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/15/2015 3:13 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: > > To make matters worse, that test with the first SA 801 managed to smoke > the 24V power supply on this system, so now I have to pull it all apart, > and pull out the regulator transistor which is mounted from the reverse > side through t

Re: QIC-24 data analysis

2015-08-16 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/16/2015 11:19 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 08/16/2015 08:24 AM, dwight wrote: >> I left a note there about using CRCs to do data correction. It is a >> simpler method for software than normally use. > > I posted a link on VCF about using GNU CRC RevEng--a great little > utility to aid in det

Re: PDP-12 Restoration at the RICM

2015-08-16 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/16/2015 9:00 AM, Michael Thompson wrote: > We did a lot more debugging on the TC12 LINCtape controller. > > We saw a 500ns glitch in the LMU MOTION signal that corresponded to a short > slowdown in tape speed. We will investigate this next week. > > We entered the LINC instruction to check a

Re: QIC-24 data analysis

2015-08-16 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/16/2015 3:22 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 08/16/2015 10:15 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote: >> > >> More likely, apply the technology used on some 9 Track drives: a little >> tension arm and then use servos to drive the supply and takeup reels, >> and an encoder (*not* d

Re: QIC-24 data analysis

2015-08-16 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/16/2015 6:29 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 08/16/2015 03:20 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: > >> One issue with the capstan idea, though, would be direction. >> Capstans really want to pull. Not very good a pushing. ;) So if >> you did that, and you wanted to direction op

Re: Z80 / Z84C Swap (Doh!)

2015-08-17 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/17/2015 12:48 AM, drlegendre . wrote: > Thanks for the input, gents.. > > Sigh.. and here I sit, yet again, with neither a logic analyzer nor a > decent digital scope. Unless something comes up, looks like I'll have to do > it the hard way, as usual - heh. > Do you at least have a logic pr

Re: Probs w. M3119 CXY08 MUX on VAX VMS 7.3

2015-08-17 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/17/2015 1:18 PM, Holm Tiffe wrote: > Johnny Billquist wrote: > > [..] >>> >>> Since I'm a total VMS Noob I now have some Questions: >>> >>> .. have I missed something? >>> .. is the CXY08 bad? >>> .. what could I try next? >>> ...is there some diagnosting software for the CXY08 existing for

Re: RLV11 Debugging

2015-08-17 Thread Jay Jaeger
BR level is the bus request level for an Interrupt. BR 4 is typical. The RLV11 apparently asserts BIRQ L, pin AL2 - which on the 11/23 would be BIRQ4 L. I don't think the RLV11 offers any other choice. The RLV11 print set (bitsavers) has the switch settings on page 4 of the PDF. The RLV11 contr

Re: test equipment / Re: Z80 / Z84C Swap (Doh!)

2015-08-17 Thread Jay Jaeger
You might check EEVBLOG on Youtube. The guy's a blast and covers what you are asking about. He indicates 8 bits is really not to his liking at all, to go for more. He also goes over the sampling rate of some of the USB DSO's out there. EEVBlog #13: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTG6jWL0ZqA h

Re: Shugart 800 spindle bearings (Re: Shugart 800-8 media centering problem)

2015-08-17 Thread Jay Jaeger
r from vertical - they allow a tiny bit more rock. JRJ On 8/17/2015 4:22 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: > Well, in the process of repairing the Altos power supply I managed to > break the center lead off of the TIP31A that feeds the 2N3055 series > pass transistor. This time, I need to order parts.

Shugart 800 spindle bearings (Re: Shugart 800-8 media centering problem)

2015-08-17 Thread Jay Jaeger
Well, in the process of repairing the Altos power supply I managed to break the center lead off of the TIP31A that feeds the 2N3055 series pass transistor. This time, I need to order parts. In the meantime, I swapped drives to make the problem more drive accessible. Also, the Shugart 801 drive I

Re: PDP-12 Restoration at the RICM

2015-08-18 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/17/2015 1:51 PM, Rich Alderson wrote: > From: Jay Jaeger > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2015 3:18 PM > > On 8/16/2015 9:00 AM, Michael Thompson wrote: > >>> We did a lot more debugging on the TC12 LINCtape controller. > >> Second gut hunch is that it would b

Re: RLV11 Debugging

2015-08-18 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/18/2015 7:46 AM, Paul Koning wrote: > >> On Aug 17, 2015, at 10:48 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: >> >> BR level is the bus request level for an Interrupt. BR 4 is typical. > > On Unibus machines, more of the BR levels were used. The rule of thumb was > BR4 for sl

Re: test equipment / Re: Z80 / Z84C Swap (Doh!)

2015-08-18 Thread Jay Jaeger
Yet another freaking Aussie nutcase, lol - but he does seem to get some > good info across, in between the audible glamour. > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 9:54 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: > >> You might check EEVBLOG on Youtube. The guy's a blast and covers what >> you ar

Re: Shugart 800 spindle bearings (Re: Shugart 800-8 media centering problem)

2015-08-18 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/17/2015 11:14 PM, tony duell wrote: >> >> Well, in the process of repairing the Altos power supply I managed to >> break the center lead off of the TIP31A that feeds the 2N3055 series >> pass transistor. This time, I need to order parts. > > Do you? The centre lead (collector) is connected

Re: RLV11 Debugging

2015-08-18 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/18/2015 11:33 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On 2015-08-18 15:09, Jay Jaeger wrote: >> On 8/18/2015 7:46 AM, Paul Koning wrote: >>> >>>> On Aug 17, 2015, at 10:48 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: >>>> >>>> BR level is the bus request level for an I

Re: DEC Fiche EP-M8436-MA-A

2015-08-18 Thread Jay Jaeger
MA == Module Assembly. These fiche have BLUE tops. I have one that is slightly newer: EP-M8436-MA-B . In my case, it is part of the VTERM Fiche set. (Mine is VTERM-000171). M8436 - VT278 CPU, Revs A, C M8437 - COMM Adapter, Revs A, C and D M8439 - RL01/RL01 Disk Controller, Revs A, B and C M8

Re: More on manuals plus rescue

2015-08-18 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/18/2015 8:35 PM, Shoppa, Tim wrote: >> IA saturates the channel. Jason and IA are deliberately working to redirect >> all search >> traffic to IA from the original mirrors by constantly creating useless 'new' >> content that >> Google thinks is real. >> >> I have watched over time as the v

Re: Shugart 800 spindle bearings (Re: Shugart 800-8 media centering problem)

2015-08-18 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/18/2015 4:11 PM, tony duell wrote: > >> Yeah, but the TIP31A part is cheap, and is free air mounted on its leads >> - it isn't screwed down. I'd rather do the repair nicely. Anyway, it > > Sure... > > What I would do is bolt a tag + wire onto the tab of the old transistor (don't > tell

Re: Larry Niven's Altair

2015-08-20 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/20/2015 3:32 AM, Randy Dawson wrote: > Who picked this up - > > I may have some cash for the buyer to mate it with my new ASR33, on its way > via crate and freight. > > Anybody got debug and startup tips on the 33, it probably has been siting for > a while. > (like who has the melted ham

Re: HP 5480A, or, obscure HP instruments / was Re: More on manuals plus rescue

2015-08-20 Thread Jay Jaeger
At least, under Google and eBay, one can add exclusionary terms: hp 9100 -printer -scanner Seems to do pretty well under Google. Under eBay I had to add a lot more exclusions, and ran out of room. JRJ On 8/20/2015 7:11 AM, tony duell wrote: > >> They reuse numbers for what I call "marketing n

Re: Larry Niven's Altair

2015-08-20 Thread Jay Jaeger
On 8/20/2015 9:47 AM, Paul Koning wrote: > >> On Aug 20, 2015, at 10:30 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote: >> >> >> >> On 8/20/2015 3:32 AM, Randy Dawson wrote: >>> Who picked this up - >>> >>> I may have some cash for the buyer to mate

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