I own my entire working career to some random happenings as a kid with
interfacing equipment to IBM PC clones using RS232.
As a late teenager I used to hang out at the local computer store who sold
Toshiba gear. I had a knack for making cables that allowed them to connect
brother printers using R
here :-)
I love that the IOB is surface mount - It has caused my brain to start
thinking about simplifying some of my STD bus based boards to be SM - So
much cleaner.
I can do payment via Paypal if thats ok? Just let me know what you would
like..
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.c
Hi Dave,
I'll send this to the group, I suspect my email made it into your spam.
Doug
-- Forwarded message -
From: Doug Jackson
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025, 6:05 am
Subject: Re: SBC6128
To:
Hi Dave,
I was just researching the IOB6120 (I had an 8 at the end of the model..
27;m in Australia, but I don't mind paying postage. Happy to pay
whatever you need..
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
Both - Assume one goes down.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 at 17:30, John Robertson via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> Archive.org or bitsavers.org?
>
> John :-
Haven't the really big machines been virtualise under a specialised version
of Linux. I recall Andrew Tridgal working for IBM 15 years ago porting it
to their Z series.
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024, 12:35 pm Donald Whittemore via cctalk, <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> Has to be the mid to late 80s. Th
There was a "Killer Poke" on the commodore PET that would alter the video
horizontal output frequency, which had the effect of physically damaging
the video hardware as the high voltage was generated by the flyback
transformer.l and there was no regulation.
It's mere existence made my father paran
les.
So - yea, UUCP was around, but it wasn't alive in hobbyist circles.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 at 11:39, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
wrote:
>
>
>
> On 10/23/2024
Hmmm, MSX
I only knew of MSX here in Australia (circa 1985/6 ish) because the
shop where I hung out, ogling Toshiba T300 PC compatibles has an MSX
machine they were trying to sell. I recall its colorful keyboard
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Follow my
it allows us to plug the next
available storage device into a USB orifice, and have it 'just work'
Just my $0.02 ;-)
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
On Wed, 9 Oct 2024 at 10:59, Fred Cisin via
I never thought I would write this, but can we please keep drug induced
Scandemic theories off list.
I would have thought that as a group of technical people we would all have
been capable of thought and could read.
There was a pandemic. There were vaccines of varying levels of success
developed
We can unsubscribe?
No -Once you give your email over, it's there forever :-)
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
On Fri, 30 Aug 2024 at 13:49, Glen Slick via cctalk
wrote:
>
> Help. Unsubscibe. Jane,
Circa 1986 I was working at the Research School of Physical Sciences at the
Australian National University.
As late as that we were still running CP/M on an eclictic mix of Imsai8080
and STD Bus based machines. These were all running laboratory
experiments.
Turbo Pascal was king in that environm
te
in the 8 bit world, having been released in 1983. The IBM PC was released
in 1981, so I suspect that by the time somebody ran CP/M on a Model 4,
Borland had moved onto PC/MS-DOS.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zd
Having paid personally for a Borland C++ compiler in the Windows 95 days, I
can confirm that the set of books can comfortably elevate a monitor by
about 14" when used as a monitor stand.
On Sun, 7 Apr 2024, 10:27 am geneb via cctalk,
wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Apr 2024, Mike Norris via cctalk wrote:
>
>
suggest that many of
them are there :-)
:-)
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 at 16:04, Just Kant via cctalk
wrote:
> Accordimg to certain individuals on this list, going back a few ye
Ans sway they have in congress to get laws specifically modified for their
benefit...
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, 1:27 pm Fred Cisin via cctalk,
wrote:
> >> OTOH, spammer mailing lists, and leaked personal and trade secrets
> >> seem to last forever.
>
> On Thu, 28 Mar 2024, ben via cctalk wrote:
> > Y
me, as I run about 7 different email aliases
depending on the environment I am in at any time.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
On Wed, 31 Jan 2024 at 18:41, Kevin Lee via cctalk
wrote:
> Could someone kin
you
remember how to use the SD system?
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 at 05:16, Stephen Pereira via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I know there&
cence
/ activation keys?
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 at 10:29, jim stephens via cctalk
wrote:
>
>
> On 8/3/23 13:21, KenUnix via cctalk wrote:
> > My efforts have failed. My
To be completely honest, Electrotechnology students with 415v DC bench
supplies and HV caps all learnt very quickly not to catch something when
somebody threw it to you.
Ahhh - The folly of youth :-)
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Follow my amateur radio
citor was discharged before handing
it to your lab mate in class :-)
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
On Fri, 7 Jul 2023 at 10:19, KenUnix via cctalk
wrote:
> Okey Dokey Thanks.
>
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2023 a
Wait !! - there was BASIC in ROM for the IMSAI?
How was the memory laid out? What I/O devices did it expect?
Does it run with a Z80 CPU, or only the 8080?
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 at 12:51, steve shumaker via cctalk <
cct
That's the crux of it.
Without advertisers magazines are too expensive. As advertisers needs
change they move to diferent media.
It's frustrating. But part of the world in which we live.
On Sat, 22 Apr 2023, 12:34 pm Wayne S via cctalk,
wrote:
> Not progress just consolidation of the pc man
ains
are in the Twilight Zone, and have the word Emporium in their name.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
On Fri, 10 Feb 2023 at 09:13, Adrian Go
I love the small note about Steve Wozniak in the second magazine... lots
of hardware experience - Time poor :-)
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
On Fri
I would be interested in it - Happy to pay postage to Australia, and a bit
for the machine ;-)
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
On Thu, 2 Feb 2023 at 20:42, David Brownlee via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> I had some idea of trying to
ng the lists for 20 years!
/Dennis Boone
----
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow
t get back.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 at 14:53, Chris via cctalk
wrote:
> Vadem made 186 clones? They made dense glue for V40 base
y thoughts.
Doug Jackson
On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 at 13:13, Mike Loewen via cctalk
wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Dec 2022, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
>
> > On Dec 20, 2022, at 2:27 PM, Chris via cctalk
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Specifically as pertaining to old/vintage/classic/retr
n my experience, as a purchaser who is quite
happy to pay through the nose, because I understand that a plane flight to
the States costs much more than anybodies shipping.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Fo
Sigh...
Yet another American seler who doesn't understand how simple overseas
shipping is.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
On Fri, 21 Oct 2022 at
Hi Dennis,
That makes complete sense - All of my cc* related emails get forwarded into
a single folder here anyway.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
Hmm - Depends on where that pesky ground connection is put :-) (Duck)
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 at 12:55, Chris Zach via cctalk
wrote:
> > Nice job, but isn't the 7915 the negative regulator?
>
> Whoops :-)
>
> >
> > --Chuck
> >
>
"worked the last time used but no guarantees and are sold as is"
Reminds me of the test and tag rip-off that has been embedded in
legislation.
It was OK when we tested it at 3pm on Tuesday afternoon Your Honor.
Gone are the days of personal accountability.
On Mon, 27 Dec 2021, 2:50 pm Ali via c
t have Qedit12005b, so I would have
to install it.
Client: .
Got monotonous after a bit.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
On Wed, 29 Sept 2021 at 13:58, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
wrote:
> On 9/28/21 8:37 PM, John Herron via cctalk wrote:
> > For those of you who wrote you
We can synthesise those with a Female edge connector and a nice Gold Plated
set of long fingers.
I agree - those connectors were beautiful and very useful in the days of
barely adequately buffered signals slapped onto a tin plated PCB edge
connector.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d
I use any of the 'Orange' based goo gone type cleaners for labels.
Be careful to have an absorbent tissue. Once the black goo has been
dissolved, mop it up quickly - otherwise in the next few weeks you will
find black smears everywhere wnd wonder where they came from.
Kindest rega
Dwight.
That smells like one of the Rifa caps. Thick brown smoke.
Or was it one of the big electros?
On Wed, 12 May 2021, 12:59 am dwight via cctalk,
wrote:
> The rivets are likely more of a safety thing than an issue warrantee
> repair thing. The inside of a Apple II is intended to have user
|dsa-922446159331|&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvr6EBhDOARIsAPpqUPGZY4Ngl7SU6FHq9pxKQ8X19QmsxNvM0S6tFazGERm0QBSNbwd46fUaAjkZEALw_wcB
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk
oaxial-connectors/high-voltage-connectors/bnc-ht-mhv.html
We also used to use 75 Ohm BNC connectors for video systems.
https://www.hubersuhner.com/en/products/radio-frequency/connectors-adapters/bayonet-connectors-bnc/bnc-75-real
It is worth noting that there are multiple BNC connectors.
Kindest
I will never know - They use some sort of filter that prevents access from
Australia.
Perhaps somebody would like to post the photo and description
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio
Well,
That went quickly.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
---
Just like an old fashioned letter
Oh no.
I wonder what it was this time.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
---
Just like an old
I could never get my head around Golf... except when the drinks cart
came.. then it was fun. :-p
On Wed, 16 Dec. 2020, 12:05 pm Bill Gunshannon via cctalk, <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On 12/15/20 7:40 PM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 12/15/2020 3:40 PM, Bill Gunshannon
That's the beauty of the Internet, infinite overlapping groups.
My view is post it everywhere - I understand how to use the key :-)
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventur
you.
Most traffic coming out of PCs these days is SSL encrypted, and you are not
likely to extract meaningful data from a session.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at
Dwight,
I would be very interested in your NC4016 experience. I did collect a
NC4016 STD bus board a while ago from ePay, and have successfully spoken to
it via a terminal - It would be fun to add storage, but I have no idea
where to start :-)
And no doco..:-/
Kindest regards,
Doug
ustralia, and would merrily give it a home. :-)
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
---
Just like an old f
Those of us late to the party may like to know:
1. What was AL
2. Why was it famous?
3. Tell us more about Doug, and his apartment :-)
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures
Could it have been a 5V LED with integral current limit?
That would explain the odd behaviour.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
page.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
---
Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any
Not fun at all - :-(
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
---
Just like an old fashioned letter, this
abandon my email, or use gmail for
everything.
instant, clean email feed.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
I can't get to the original domain.
It certainly looks unregistered.
On Sun, 30 Aug. 2020, 6:41 am jwest--- via cctalk,
wrote:
> Mike wrote
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk On Behalf Of Mike Douglas
> via cctalk
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 6:02 PM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
That is absolutely in keeping with the flame nature of the group.
Sigh...
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
Comp.lang.forth taught me that flame wars were fun and all I needed to
enjoy them was popcorn.
It also showed me how every person writing their own version of a language
and the associated flame wars actually damaged the the community. I
suspect much of Forths lack of traction can be attributed t
Ahhh,
Just m,aybe it is simply an I/O processor with different firmware - That
would run zork just fine :-P
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
hat it's yet another
linux box.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
---
Just like an old fashioned l
Hi Peter,
That is a stunning board, and in beautiful condition.
The square cubes are transformers, most likely some sort of pulse
transformer on the base of the transistor.
A multimeter will tell you in quick form.
Doug
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
up on email while I am
using my phone in the bus.
If we do implement attachments that are limited to one SSDD 8" disk, can
there please be some technological way of chaining disk 'parts' to allow
larger attachments to be transmitted?
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@dough
Ah... I suspect it's an example of modern web apps being excessive.
That URL was likely only active during the session that the user was active
within. When the session went away so did the URL.
It's longer than the information content of the universe to stop it from
being accessed by somebo
We could consider moving to Google groups hosting.
In the wake of the removal of Yahoo many of my groups moved there and it
works really well.
Doug
On Wed, 17 Jun. 2020, 7:22 am Rob Jarratt via cctalk,
wrote:
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Bill Degnan
> via
> > c
I remember testing memory chips with a thumb. The one that took yoir
fingerprint ofd was always faulty.
Hopefully it's not whisker regrowth. That would be really frustrating.
On Fri, 12 Jun. 2020, 12:15 am Charles via cctalk,
wrote:
>
> On 6/11/20 2:29 AM, Mattis Lind wrote:
> >
> >
> > torsd
Is it possible to share the link.
On Wed, 22 Apr. 2020, 3:38 pm Bob Smith via cctalk,
wrote:
> I found the referenced paper, wrong authors - it was Bell and
> Casasent, in a cache paper, a bit earlier than 78
>
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 9:17 PM Bob Smith wrote:
> >
> > Nice!
> > BUT no my BigM
rating state where I don't know where to start.
Doug Jackson
Canberra Australia.
reminded me of many a
night at uni.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
---
Just like an old fashioned
regards,
Doug Jackson
em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
---
Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files transmitted
with
I'm literally in the process of starting this.
I have a pdp11/05 and the key was snapped off. I brazed it back together.
The barrel is a three wafer unit. It is easily removable by undoing the 4
screws to remove the front panel. Removing the screws holding the micro
switches in place and remov
'telnet ? that is very much indeed useful if someone wants to run a pure
old school desktop while managing !'
He he...
Of course it should be said that that old gear using Telnet shouldn't be
connected to the wider internet.
It's kind of funny when a kid in Sydney discovers he can turn off a cit
That's a beautiful board.
While I have no docs, a careful look confirms for me that it would
superimpose something (likely clock data) on a video signal. The
horizontal and vertical counters, mux and Rom give that away.
I love the layout. Absoloutly done in the days of tape ar 2 or 4 times.
Having worked for them in also not surprised.
When they absorbed Compaq their culture changed. Significantly for the
worse.
I'd be stunned if they existed in a form other that selling printers and
ink cartridges in 5 years time.
On Wed, 11 Mar. 2020, 10:42 am Patrick Finnegan via cctalk, <
ccta
So.
At the end of the day there are three paths.
1. Accept that HP doesn't give two hoots about hobbyists and patch the
abandoned operating system to fix the problem.
2. Declare that we need to develop an open replacement.
Or
3. Accept that HP actually owns the rights to our VAX 11/785 machi
It looks like it's the hosting bill as well. That's not a simple expired
domain page.
On Thu, 7 Nov. 2019, 9:20 am Bill Degnan via cctalk,
wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2019, 5:15 PM William Sudbrink via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > Domain has been down for 7 days now. No reply to
It is.
He ended up serving 15 months in prison for making rescue disks that were
based on downloadable software that required licence keys that the PCs that
he refurbished already had.
It's a complex.case and the judge didn't understand the actual value of the
media which was zero.
Sadly technic
I am working on a USB interface for my Sinclair ZX 80.
The biggest problem im facing is how to buffer the 16GB through my 1kb of
program RAM. It's proving to be very slow.
Just as soon as I can get that working I'm hoping to be able to read these
devices.
On Tue, 27 Nov. 2018, 4:57 pm ED MAJD
boat anchor...
(Duck)
Doug
Doug Jackson
VK1ZDJ
On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 1:59 PM, allison via cctalk
wrote:
> On 02/25/2018 09:06 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> > On Sun, 25 Feb 2018, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
> >> What is vintage computing?
> >> I think it&#
Hi...
>From memory there were a number of remote exploits against AIX 4.x.x
The most simple were against ftpd.
A quick search found this..
https://www.exploit-db.com/exploits/14409/. This extracts the root user
hash.
Of course if you have local access there is the rlogin vulnerability
again
Camiel,
Without sounding super negative (my day job as a security consultant let's
me do that enough...) I would be especially wary of connecting anything
with a 10 year old stack to the modern internet. The range of automatic
attacks based on what the state of the OS was when it was last patch
Yep. Stay away.
This seller is breaking eBay policies because that 21 days is required to allow
the buyer to lodge a grievance if something is wrong.
The seller should avtually be reported.
Doug Jackson
On 2 November 2016 11:12:14 am AEDT, Glen Slick wrote:
>On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 4:43
My 11/34 and 11/10 would be very happy to have one of these each .
Doug Jackson
On 25 October 2016 5:28:05 am AEDT, Scott Baker wrote:
>Hi Noel,
>
>>> Any chance it could be put into 'production'?
>Sure, if there is interest, I could make a run of boards.
>
&g
Umm
Weren't our computers designed before quality change control existed...
(Duck)
Doug
On 9 July 2016 10:39:55 am AEST, "Ryan K. Brooks" wrote:
>
>On 7/8/16 7:11 PM, Jim Brain wrote:
>> On 7/8/2016 5:09 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr wrote:
>>> Thanks Jay. Hopefully this will avoid a long thread o
On 5/19/2016 8:41 AM, Adrian Graham wrote:
Then I remembered that I've composite modded a Sinclair Spectrum and a ZX81
and I get no picture at all with those, like the signal is too weak for the
monitor to pick up. Said pair of machines work fine on my 2008-era LCD TV
though so does anyone know w
I've been a member of this list for many years. Sometimes people are on topic.
Sometimes they are not. But the list remains a useful source of infirmation
and trivia alike.
I understand where the key is, and what its function is. I have found
that judicious use can increase my happyness le
This about screen pretty much sums it up.
http://gmane.org/about.php
-
Free software is mainly developed on mailing lists. Mailing lists have
many advantages over other forms of communication, but they have two
weaknesses: It's difficult to follow discussions in a sensible way
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