esn't really help.
In general, that timeline should ideally reflect the state of the systems,
which is not always represented in the papers. A paper might release when a
system is already running for months, if not years, and some systems didn't
p
for me, but for
people who have no github it could be easiest for them to just send a mail or
something.
Ideally, if you know the sources of the data, you can also provide links in the
sources file. Though I can imagine that some details only persist in memory.
Thank you for contributing.
si
that anyway.
For reference, I'm building the svg on a Windows 11 system using the git bash.
I also have a few posix tools installed via cygwin.
sirjofri
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re systems, you have to adjust the
script.awk file and add them.
Patches and ideas for better visualization or better script functionality are
also welcome. Also, consider that repo as a very open license, probably MIT
(which I'll add asap).
sirjofri
-
etimes missing. That includes the latest iwp9
papers/talks.
I'll happily merge patches, if you want to contribute:
https://github.com/sirjofri/Plan9History
It's as easy as adding lines to a text file (and provide sources, if possible).
The SVG is somewhat interactive if you use a mode
Hi,
Not that it really makes sense, but have you tried running 9front as a thread?
Inferno could also be interesting...
sirjofri
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ve
> aboard.
One thing I hate is that everything nowadays has to be implemented in Python or
C#, while it's often much easier to use languages like awk or sed (in
combination with a shell script).
sirjofri
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rrupted
files that I had to delete using the cwfs.cmd console (and partially restore
from the distribution). Sorry, I can't tell more.
sirjofri
1. To elaborate somewhat further, I don't have any linux installation in my
environment, and I wouldn't want to get one if possible.
-
system. I guess getting perl on plan 9
would mostly mean that he could develop perl programs for plan 9, not run perl
programs made for linux on a plan 9 system (guessing from file paths and
modules that are built for linux), but my perl experience dates
x27;s
better on hjfs and gefs, but that's the reason why I refuse to run any go stuff
on my system.
sirjofri
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effort it'll be to support all the chaos.
sirjofri
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ull X server or Wayland
compositor.
sirjofri
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rote, the idea of Plan 9 is quite simple, I
think: every resource can be abstracted as a filesystem, and thus be presented
in a namespace. The challenge is to actually do the work of designing that
abstraction.
sirjofri
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t; These systems begin with graphical interaction in mind.
> They support single-user tasks and desktop workflows.
> They reuse or wrap standard interface abstractions.
Desktop doesn't mean GUI-first, in my opinion. And also, plan 9 was more
graphical from the beginning, and they conside
03.06.2025 02:10:51 Ron Minnich :
> I have this picture in my head of a p9f.org web page, showing a
> desktop with lola, and a "try it in your web browser" button, and a
> "try it on qemu" button, and a "boot it on your laptop" button.
I believe the zero-effort choice for anyone would be the web o
ng. I think
this is a lot more work than just writing up how things work, and it probably
also involves user tests, as well as making good images (screenshots and
graphics).
I don't want to make this mail any longer, and it's long enough already. Thank
you for coming to m
x27;m not a writer, even though I enjoy it.
Here's the rough outline I wrote many months ago. If I go back to that, I
should revise that.
https://shithub.us/sirjofri/sergui/64335a8573bd09fd01220bd1386d1754f4c14ed3/text/f.html
sirjofri
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Hi,
for easier reading and permalinks, having all the papers also as individual pdf
files would be really cool. I think we had that for earlier IWP9s, too.
sirjofri
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plan 9. I can imagine that using the proper format
fixes the problems, though I also don't fully understand why the problems occur
like they're described.
sirjofri
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not desktop computers necessarily,
think factory, sensors and embedded).
sirjofri
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should be enough, considering the context of these man pages.
sirjofri
http://man.postnix.pw/9front/1/delkey
http://man.postnix.pw/9front/4/factotum
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t, like some kinda repost or something.
sirjofri
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the pinephone port is where it is right now. I hope I can find
time this year to invent a compatible UI for it.
sirjofri
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I can't reach it right
now. I can also look on my laptop if I can find it. I remember I found .v back
then, but there was something I didn't like - maybe it was just the lack of
documentation.
sirjofri
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Permali
Following up on that, it looks like I'll be there. I don't know the location
yet, but it seems pretty open so it should be quite possible to find each other
if there are obvious signs.
sirjofri
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ual 9front instances, running on different chat participants.
Disclaimer: I'm just sharing the news, I didn't do anything to make that work.
sirjofri
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Hi,
I mostly use acme on 9front, so I use the acme version. In the rare case that I
want an acme on windows, I use the acme-sac, which is the inferno version. I
never used any other version besides those and the 9legacy version, back when I
was using 9legacy.
sirjofri
onus if
you include some hardware button as a second factor.
I'd also like to investigate inferno more. I basically left it back in 2018/9
when I switched from 9legacy to 9front.
sirjofri
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hought it would be interesting to use
this as a 9p interface. Imagine you could rcpu or rimport into the phone using
that port.
Since most people nowadays probably use a USB-to-serial adapter, it's pretty
similar from the experience.
sirjofri
--
9
h keys and such.
That's why I built webbox: https://shithub.us/sirjofri/webbox/HEAD/info.html
It's a pure rc+tcp80 solution, which uses a tcp80 with a few extensions (see
the readme). It also has a snarf solution (fill the snarf buffer with text or
"data" from a web form),
till be there, but that should be enough
for building/testing etc.
sirjofri
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ite well with 9front btw. A
touch-optimized phone app would ideally "just work" on that laptop.
Regarding modem: easy tethering, out of the box. You could also make your phone
an easy VPN bridge to your home network.
sirjofri
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ne on the network.
The UI part is only a user interface to that whole system -- ideally it can do
as much as any existing plan 9 UI we have today.
sirjofri
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ps://github.com/driusan/9front-A64 (I think this is the most
current version)
*We=currently mostly _not_ me
sirjofri
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19.01.2025 20:00:04 Daniel Maslowski via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>:
> Should we apply for a community/project table? No idea if that is still
> available.
I'm thinking about it for next year, if we can organize it. This year it's
already too late.
--
9fans:
Hi everyone,
just asking if someone plans to go to the chemnitz linux days (Chemnitzer
Linux-Tage) this year (22./23.03.)? I'm considering going there. Could be a
place to meet.
sirjofri
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18.01.2025 23:47:22 Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>:
> On Sat, Jan 18, 2025 at 10:29:48PM +0100, sirjofri wrote:
>> In general, we have a lot of "this is how tool X works" manuals, and a lack
>> of "this is how task X can be done" documentation
users especially encounter situations where they
just don't know what can be done.
There's lots of knowledge about this hidden in various mailing list threads,
chat groups, and blogs.
sirjofri
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be fair, I don't own any smart home device, and I'm also not the person
who wants to automate the home like that.
sirjofri
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Delivery opti
t;
> You were the one wanting userspace devdraw.
Working on some variation of it. The end goal would be, having detachable rio
sessions.
sirjofri
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work.
I don't know enough about what protocols are used for that, and how easy they
are to implement, or maybe if we even have something like that already using
xyz-modem or whatever.
Did anyone do experiments on that already, using plan 9?
sir
much
GPUs can do if used correctly. It's just incredible.
Can't wait to see what will happen in the future to Plan 9 and GPUs in
combination!
sirjofri
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erstandable if you start
dissecting "the whole" in your mind to understand the individual components.
The individual commands make sense then (even though you always need to read
the man pages[2] to manage it since you don't touch that part of the system
very often).
sirjofri
[1]
it would be possible to put your wpa2 keys in
the boot paq file.
sirjofri
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g/9fans.html.
>
> Much thanks to Russ for managing the list for so long.
Thank you for managing this and taking over the task :)
sirjofri
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leaks, and other things that could be improved, but it is
something that could be used as a backend system for other tools, or just used
directly.
https://shithub.us/sirjofri/vcardfs
https://git.sr.ht/~sirjofri/vcardfs
(Technical details following, feel free to stop reading here).
It comes w
you evade our
questions and requests? I think the situation would be like that if you just
honestly responded months ago when we had a similar discussion.
I'm not your enemy, I just can't understand.
sirjofri
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s more like a "please do the work", but it's still the
worst way to do it.
I don't like those times we live in, with GPT being used as it is...
sirjofri
(Written by me, sadly _not_ obviously)
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Other than that, it would be great if people could read mails with an imaginary
smiling emoji at the end.
sirjofri
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ky enough to have an ls, walk or find that can quote
them, you can parse them using different tools (awk, sed, or build them
yourself in C). It would probably easier to circumvent this by getting file by
file, for example using some dirstat counterpart or maybe even a for loo
up the flags.
Good luck finding a solution that works for you.
I think there was a doscussion some time ago to add quotes to ls output for
situations like these.
sirjofri
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last official release (4th) is 9legacy.
They could state that more clearly on their website, for newcomers. We also had
a very long thread like three years ago about what p9f actually wants.
Hope that clarifies things a bit.
sirjofri
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Permali
ting the ISO is deprecated and should not be used wouldn't be difficult
> either, if this is the case.
Good.
You may have noticed that I asked about the wikis. I'd really like to add some
missing information, if that's fine with p9f.
sirjofri
-
ity. If you don't want to learn, then don't
learn and go back to linux, windows, or even better, mac. Furthermore,
gardening is also a nice hobby.
sirjofri
P.S.: Just in case, I don't really see distinct Plan 9 "communities", only one.
There are different "branche
n 9, as a nice
overview. Would that end up in the p9f wiki or should that better be placed in
9p.io? Would that even be welcome in such an official place such as p9f.org?
sirjofri
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ardware support, and 9front, which is a modern version of
plan 9, developed independently, and some things are very different. There are
a few other versions developed for more special purposes.
Again, another long mail. I probably have too much time right now...
sirjofri
who asked didn't read
the manuals/docs. That's often a waste of time for the ones who would consider
answering. In some cases I don't answer because I know there are people who
know more than me about that topic.
sirjofri
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someone who just loves good documentation and who
also loves to document. (That's also one reason why this mail is so long, so
please forgive me).
There are also a few more things to say, but this mail is long enough. If you
want, you can email me off-list and I can tell a bit more.
eyes and two noses, and an artist who asks what
could be improved with that.
sirjofri
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issue and understanding
_when_ you can even help is very important.
Thank you, Noam, for digging deep into the venti black hole and trying to
understand as much as possible.
sirjofri
P.S.: I don't know enough about venti, so I won't even try to solve the issue.
--
piritual beliefs)
Not that this says anything about that person, but it seems to be an
interesting rabbit hole.
sirjofri
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e by now.
But we value peers, not parrots.
sirjofri
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r adding it to 9front or any
other system if that's fine with everyone.
sirjofri
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26.07.2024 03:50:56 Ben Huntsman :
> Is 9atom still updated in any way, shape, or form, or are you working off
> that really old version from like 10 years ago?
I'm working with this code currently:
https://github.com/Plan9-Archive/9atom/tree/master/sys/src/libxml
> and if you make huge profits from this code, you owe me "some beer".
At the moment I doubt that 9front will want to include my stuff. At least, I'm
not planning to send a patch (yet). I share it with people, because xml support
is somewhat missing.
sirjofri
ave a working (and wip), but very limited xslt processor. Both
tools are in a separate repository (xmltools).
Libxml and libxpath are available here:
http://shithub.us/sirjofri/xml-9atom/HEAD/info.html
https://git.sr.ht/~sirjofri/xml-9atom
Xq and xslt are available here:
http://shithub.us/sir
g npe on your system, you can
ignore that and just manage the npe installation yourself (see README).
Note this is quite an early version and things are missing and buggy. A small
list is attached.
You can get the collection on shithub
(https://shithub.us/sirjofri/puzzles/HEAD/info.html when
l environment, just set up a slack. And yes, this
is somewhat of a troll (I'm not good at it).
> Take care
This is very important. Take care.
Have a nice day and enjoy the sun from the shadows.
sirjofri
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rio versions
with theming etc. I don't want that. It's not part of the distribution (with
very few exceptions), and it's 100% optional.
We don't always have to agree, but as long as we can discuss things in peace
and exchange information we can still be a community.
si
list evolved
like that and people don't want to contribute in that environment, or is it the
reason why it evolved like that?
Funnily enough, the 9fans discord community is very nice, helpful, I can barely
see any trolling attempt at all (at least I can't remember anything like that).
if she should fill out that one
specific column that is described as "please fill out this column". Those
people aren't here on this mailing list, but I would totally understand
extremely verbose (-v) mails like yours if you managed people like that for
many years!
I'm g
e yourself and give
something back to the community. Hunt for bugs and fix them, or write tools
that helps people, or improve the documentation. This should help the community
much more than top-level organization when there is no top-level.
I hope this mail finds you well, please read it with som
13.05.2024 12:12:49 ibrahim via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>:
> On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 11:57 AM, sirjofri wrote:
>> So, you could say, plan 9 from bell labs is the last released version, 4th
>> edition. The others (9legacy, 9front, ...) are also plan 9, just not plan 9
>
So, with that definition, the system described in the paper "Plan 9 from bell
labs" is not plan9, because it describes any system that uses the same concepts?
So, plan9 is like UNIX™ and there's no such thing as a concept about plan 9?
Note that 9front never claimed to be a continuation, but a f
ut building a list of companies that use plan 9
technology, just so people can get involved with them, and now that I'm
searching for a new job that's even more interesting for me personally. (Not
sure if I want to do plan 9 as $dayjob, but I could see it as an option.) That
le at
chat.only9fans.com, and it'll probably stay there.
sirjofri
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06.03.2024 11:36:39 Edouard Klein :
>
> sirjofri writes:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> 05.03.2024 22:38:59 Edouard Klein :
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your answer.
>>>
>>>
>>> sirjofri writes:
>>>
>>>
Hi,
05.03.2024 22:38:59 Edouard Klein :
> Hi,
>
> Thank you for your answer.
>
>
> sirjofri writes:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I don't use /rc/bin/service anymore, but I use /cfg/machinename/service
>> instead. My contents are copies of what's in /
you don't
understand something, just ask :)
Btw it's quite common to "deactivate" services by renaming the files to have a
leading "!". In general, everything that follows the naming scheme
and is executable will work.
sirjofri
-
ssor, but I doubt you'll get
much performance out of it in a case like this (local machine). I guess it's
more useful for separate machines with slower network connections.
sirjofri
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at
many things are like they are on purpose. I was often grounded by people like
ori, hiro, mycroftiv, kvik and a few others on grid, as well as cat-v. I
learned that being part of Plan 9 does not necessarily mean contributing large
chunks of code, or changing many things to be "better" (
d
aspects in there. I just can't envision that in an official 5e release, but in
another fork (maybe of an existing fork). I personally would think it's best to
built upon 9front, because they have good hardware support already. And there's
many great ideas in that bubble, some of
ot;official" 386BSD,
they even looked for another name, which ended up being "FreeBSD".
I'll write another mail as response to your new mail.
sirjofri
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27.10.2023 18:40:51 o...@eigenstate.org:
> Short summary -- we're working on it. It's likely to be at a different
> location than we had initially announced. We're waiting to confirm
> before we put out the call for papers and specific dates.
Are there any news on that?
If there are bigger issues
27;re unsure you can just skip the question.
I'm pretty sure you can be done within 5-10 minutes if you want, but it's very
hard to estimate the time because you can add as much text (and details) as you
want.
Thank you (questions below)
sirjofri
Before going into the questions, fe
ental).
It wants some admin love and more grids in other countries besides eu. (Note
that I'm part of 9p.zone and the (paying) admin behind eu.9p.zone.)
sirjofri
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ndow state as two strings, also padded to 12. If you do the math: 6*12=72.
sirjofri
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in the man pages.
What could work though, is running ssam (or sam) on the data file in your acme
filesystem. It just exposes an interface for each of your acme windows with a
few files to control it.
sirjofri
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I dunno. Most focused discussions happen on the mailing lists anyway.
sirjofri
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Hello,
sure, here's a link that shouldn't expire: https://discord.gg/R8ra7QwNs3
It's the 9fans discord channel, which is probably not as official as it may
sound.
sirjofri
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peace with your relatives, and that
you can start the new year with peace and love and friendship.
Christmas is about god being with us, so may god be with you all and bless you!
sirjofri
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Prompt: Can you write a short fictional story about glenda, the Plan 9 bunny,
and her adventures in an unknown filesystem?
The Story™ (unedited)
Glenda was a curious little bunny who lived in the land of Plan 9. One day,
while exploring the vast expanse of her home filesystem, she stumbled upo
e a fullscreen mode for keyboard and mouse setups.
Native landscape mode is something I already tested and should work quite well
if it's in.
sirjofri
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fine in most cases, at least on my devices.
Getting rid of the kb button and the checkboxes is planned for the future as
soon as keyboard and mouse support works stable. Maybe even with a full
fullscreen mode.
sirjofri
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have it in a separate repo,
but I can try to merge that change to the fdroid repo asap. (Asap means, as
soon as I have time).
Sorry.
sirjofri
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welcome!
sirjofri
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ust one example, pretty sure you cam find other examples yourself.
Well, again I just want to add a small little detail that's great but I write a
long passage. Sorry for the long message.
sirjofri
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That's just my thoughts.
sirjofri
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for example the
icons.
When I get a stable version with my changes I'd also notice you so you can
integrate it.
sirjofri
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Deliver
https://f-droid.org/de/packages/org.echoline.drawterm/
Have fun
sirjofri
PS: I'm currently working on an improved version with some more stable app
structure which should give us a few features and allow us to fix a few very
annoying bugs.
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