Ubuntu Gaming Team

[Danny Piccirillo]

In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu Gaming Team has been
formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of today, the team is
now open for anyone to join and participate in. Working towards improving
FOSS games and developing its community will turn a significant barrier
against Ubuntu adoption into an appealing reason to switch.

The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles hindering growth
in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed content management
or significant investment in free content development in order to promote
FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and Ubuntu through FOSS gaming. New ideas are
encouraged and appreciated.

FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality games is one of the
most cited reasons preventing users from switching from Windows. Gamers, who
currently feed off of the proprietary software model, represent a large and
valuable user base. They will not even begin to gradually migrate to Ubuntu
until their needs are met. They are very capable of understanding the
ideological and technical benefits of using a free operating system like
Ubuntu, and are often interested in switching, but higher value is placed on
high quality gaming and the entire demographic will not budge until the
pragmatic advantages of open source actualize through FOSS gaming.

The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push for commercial games
 on Linux as significant effort is already put into the development of Wine
and pressuring video game publishers to port their work to Linux. Once FOSS
gaming reaches its "tipping point", code and content will be easily reused
to foster the development of new games and innovative ideas in gaming. The
Ubuntu Gaming Team fills a great need for an organized effort to support
FOSS gaming.
http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming-team.html

Launchpad: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaming
Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam
#ubuntu-gaming 
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Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team

[Danny Piccirillo]

Instead of thinking of this as working "at a distro level", think of it as
simply organizing around the well established ubuntu community.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 04:41, Caroline Ford <
caroline.ford.w...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Improving FOSS games at a distro level? Why not just participate upstream?
>
> Also are you going to work with the Debian games team and work on
> packaging?
>
> Caroline
>
> Sent from a mobile device.
>
> On 24 Apr 2009, at 09:33, Danny Piccirillo 
> wrote:
>
> In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu Gaming Team has been
> formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of today, the team is
> now open for anyone to join and participate in. Working towards improving
> FOSS games and developing its community will turn a significant barrier
> against Ubuntu adoption into an appealing reason to switch.
>
> The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles hindering growth
> in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed content management
> or significant investment in free content development in order to promote
> FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and Ubuntu through FOSS gaming. New ideas are
> encouraged and appreciated.
>
> FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality games is one of the
> most cited reasons preventing users from switching from Windows. Gamers, who
> currently feed off of the proprietary software model, represent a large and
> valuable user base. They will not even begin to gradually migrate to Ubuntu
> until their needs are met. They are very capable of understanding the
> ideological and technical benefits of using a free operating system like
> Ubuntu, and are often interested in switching, but higher value is placed on
> high quality gaming and the entire demographic will not budge until the
> pragmatic advantages of open source actualize through FOSS gaming.
>
> The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push for commercial
> games  on Linux as significant effort is already put into the development of
> Wine and pressuring video game publishers to port their work to Linux. Once
> FOSS gaming reaches its "tipping point", code and content will be easily
> reused to foster the development of new games and innovative ideas in
> gaming. The Ubuntu Gaming Team fills a great need for an organized effort to
> support FOSS gaming.
>  
> http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming-team.html
>
> Launchpad:  
> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaming
> Wiki: 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam
> #ubuntu-gaming 
>  ubuntu-gam...@lists.launchpad.net
>
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Re: Jaunty's update notifications

[Matthew Paul Thomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Oli Warner wrote on 23/04/09 10:32:
>...
> I'm running very much a non-standard install these days. I've tinkered
> with things. I say that because I want to make sure what I'm seeing
> (as a user) is by design and not by some random compound of mistakes.
> So please put me right if I'm describing something that isn't true of
> a fresh install.
> 
>- Apt is still scheduled to update at ~8am every day.

Daily, yes (I don't know the exact time).

>- Update Manager will open if it has standard updates 7 days old or
>security updates 2 days old

No, it's more about when you last installed updates than about the age
of the uninstalled updates.
 defines the exact
behavior.

>- This is done (and I paraquote) to tidy up the Notification Area

Correct.

> So firstly there's the "random window" usability argument. New users,
> especially those who have migrated from an infected Windows computer
> suffering pop-up hell tend to be incredibly wary of things that just
> appear. If I arrive at my PC (with the aim of doing something
> specific) I'd probably ignore the update screen. I might not even know
> what it is and close it. Having it just spring up is setting a
> dangerous precedent for annoy-ware and might result people turning off
> the automatic updates to live an easier life.



> That paired with the time delay might lead to occasions where
> everybody has worked really hard to get a security update out and it
> isn't applied for days.

There is no time delay for presenting security updates.

>...
> What is the default update procedure? Would a fresh install of Ubuntu
> install security updates without confirmation as soon as it gets them?

No.

> If not, why on earth not?

That's something we need to discuss further. There are benefits to
installing security updates automatically, but there are also costs,
especially with updates to programs such as Firefox that malfunction if
you are running them while they are being updated.

>...
> What I'm suggesting is we go all-out to ensure people know there are
> updates and they know what to do. Think an animated, spinning version
> of the update notification, balloon pop-ups explaining why installing
> the updates is a good idea and if they close that balloon, leave the
> icon in the notification area, spawning fresh balloons at increased
> frequency.
> 
> You could argue that it's equally annoying as just spawning the update
> window and I'd probably agree, but I think it's that important to make sure
> users do their updates.
>...

I don't understand why you think that would be better than opening the
updates window.

Cheers
- --
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http://mpt.net.nz/
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Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team

[Oli Warner]

How do you expect FOSS to make serious gains into the gaming market? Big
commercial games (read COD, Oblivion, Fallout, most RPGs) are like
interactive movies and they take about the same amount of money and manpower
to produce... That's something FOSS is rarely going to be able to reproduce.

You're treating this as if Windows gamers don't use Ubuntu because they
don't have enough access to FOSS games. Truth is, most popular FOSS games
have binary installers for Windows but you ask one Windows gamer if they
care about something like Nexuiz and chances are they've never heard of it
because they're too busy with the likes of Fallout 3, Bioshock, Assassins
Creed or Call of Duty World at War. *That's where the problem is; studios
aren't making the games for Linux so gamers don't migrate.

*It's Chicken vs Egg. You're pushing for the Chicken. Get the gamers here
and studios will make the games cross-platform. But I think you infinitely
more chance of success backing the Egg. "If you build it, they will come"

If I were you, I'd talk to small independent game studios. Give them a
route-to-market (coming up next) and help them with the development. There
are a couple of companies that provide porting services but they're not
in-house, they're not cheap and they're not ideal for the end-users.

They're still commercial games, so they still need to sell. One thing
stopping companies moving over is there isn't a decent platform for selling
their games. If there was "a Steam" for Linux, showing off the best of Linux
gaming (both FOSS and commercial), I think a LOT more companies (large and
small) would consider Linux as a viable platform.

Once that reaches critical mass, your work is done. Critical mass. More
users will move over and more companies will develop for it.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Danny Piccirillo <
danny.picciri...@ubuntu.com> wrote:

> In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu Gaming Team has been
> formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of today, the team is
> now open for anyone to join and participate in. Working towards improving
> FOSS games and developing its community will turn a significant barrier
> against Ubuntu adoption into an appealing reason to switch.
>
> The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles hindering growth
> in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed content management
> or significant investment in free content development in order to promote
> FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and Ubuntu through FOSS gaming. New ideas are
> encouraged and appreciated.
>
> FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality games is one of the
> most cited reasons preventing users from switching from Windows. Gamers, who
> currently feed off of the proprietary software model, represent a large and
> valuable user base. They will not even begin to gradually migrate to Ubuntu
> until their needs are met. They are very capable of understanding the
> ideological and technical benefits of using a free operating system like
> Ubuntu, and are often interested in switching, but higher value is placed on
> high quality gaming and the entire demographic will not budge until the
> pragmatic advantages of open source actualize through FOSS gaming.
>
> The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push for commercial
> games  on Linux as significant effort is already put into the development of
> Wine and pressuring video game publishers to port their work to Linux. Once
> FOSS gaming reaches its "tipping point", code and content will be easily
> reused to foster the development of new games and innovative ideas in
> gaming. The Ubuntu Gaming Team fills a great need for an organized effort to
> support FOSS gaming.
> http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming-team.html
>
> Launchpad: 
> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaming
> Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam
> #ubuntu-gaming 
> ubuntu-gam...@lists.launchpad.net
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>
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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Ubuntu Gaming Team

[Danny Piccirillo]

In response to Oli, isn't your first argument like comparing Windows to
Ubuntu? Maybe Ubuntu is a little bit ahead compared to FOSS gaming versus
proprietary games, but that's what this team was set up to change. We
understand the arguments for porting commercial games to Linux, and don't
deny that that will help migration to Linux, but this team is not just about
Linux adoption. This is for people who care about FOSS games, and software
freedom for all software. As already stated, there is already development of
Wine for Windows games and pressure on video game publishers to release
games for Linux, and Valve is supposedly working on that (although i haven't
heard anything new on that in a while). Although those things will help
Linux adoption, that simply isn't what this team is about, so if your
interest ends at getting commercial games on Linux, then this team isn't for
you =]

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 07:07, Senectus .  wrote:

>
>
> 2009/4/24 Oli Warner 
>
>> How do you expect FOSS to make serious gains into the gaming market? Big
>> commercial games (read COD, Oblivion, Fallout, most RPGs) are like
>> interactive movies and they take about the same amount of money and manpower
>> to produce... That's something FOSS is rarely going to be able to reproduce.
>>
>> You're treating this as if Windows gamers don't use Ubuntu because they
>> don't have enough access to FOSS games. Truth is, most popular FOSS games
>> have binary installers for Windows but you ask one Windows gamer if they
>> care about something like Nexuiz and chances are they've never heard of it
>> because they're too busy with the likes of Fallout 3, Bioshock, Assassins
>> Creed or Call of Duty World at War. *That's where the problem is; studios
>> aren't making the games for Linux so gamers don't migrate.
>>
>> *It's Chicken vs Egg. You're pushing for the Chicken. Get the gamers here
>> and studios will make the games cross-platform. But I think you infinitely
>> more chance of success backing the Egg. "If you build it, they will come"
>>
>> If I were you, I'd talk to small independent game studios. Give them a
>> route-to-market (coming up next) and help them with the development. There
>> are a couple of companies that provide porting services but they're not
>> in-house, they're not cheap and they're not ideal for the end-users.
>>
>> They're still commercial games, so they still need to sell. One thing
>> stopping companies moving over is there isn't a decent platform for selling
>> their games. If there was "a Steam" for Linux, showing off the best of Linux
>> gaming (both FOSS and commercial), I think a LOT more companies (large and
>> small) would consider Linux as a viable platform.
>>
>> Once that reaches critical mass, your work is done. Critical mass. More
>> users will move over and more companies will develop for it.
>>
>
> Some of your points are quite valid, though it's untrue to paint all high
> profile games with the same damned brush.
>
>
> ID quite quickly release Linux Native Ports of most their games (Doom,
> Quake, Quake ET etc) Epic used to, though the technology/licenses they chose
> for the latest incarnation of UT doesn't appear to be making life easy for
> Icculus to port.
>
> LGP port quite high profile games, though their method or possibly business
> model can be quite slow at times to get it out the door (I beta test for
> these guys as much as I can).
>
> I think we're starting to see growth in the "indy" Linux port market
> (Lugaru/Overgrowth, Darwinia etc), but this is all moot anyway as the
> original poster was quite clear in saying this is not really about pushing
> commercial games.
>
> it's about FOSS gaming.
>
> To tell you the truth, I'm not yet quite sure how this can be of help other
> than canonical and the Ubuntu community can offer something that the FOSS
> community sorely needs... Organisation.
>
> I suspect this is the weakest point of this genre, lots and lots of well
> meaning and sporadically enthusiastic individuals but little focus and
> staying power.
>
> I'll watch this with interest, and help where I can but I'm afraid I'm a
> little over committed IRL at the moment to be much use.
>
>
>
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Re: Jaunty's update notifications

[Oli Warner]

Pardon the duplicate Matthew, I forgot to click reply to all. Just
re-sending for the sake of the conversation.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Oli Warner  wrote:

> Thanks for getting back to me.
>
> > If not, why on earth not? [regarding security updates being installed
>> instantly]
>>
>> That's something we need to discuss further. There are benefits to
>> installing security updates automatically, but there are also costs,
>> especially with updates to programs such as Firefox that malfunction if
>> you are running them while they are being updated.
>>
>
> Yes I can see that being an issue that needs engineering.
>
> Firefox does have session saving but I suspect that would still leave some
> users with data-loss (eg filling out Flash powered forms). And yes, services
> are another issue.
>
>
>> >...
>> > What I'm suggesting is we go all-out to ensure people know there are
>> > updates and they know what to do. Think an animated, spinning version
>> > of the update notification, balloon pop-ups explaining why installing
>> > the updates is a good idea and if they close that balloon, leave the
>> > icon in the notification area, spawning fresh balloons at increased
>> > frequency.
>> >
>> > You could argue that it's equally annoying as just spawning the update
>> > window and I'd probably agree, but I think it's that important to make
>> sure
>> > users do their updates.
>> >...
>>
>> I don't understand why you think that would be better than opening the
>> updates window.
>
>
> Well I presume it's not called the Notification Area for our health =) So
> from a desktop-unification point of view, it's obvious why, I hope.
>
> Popping up balloons demanding some action (even if they choose to click
> ignore) is a much better way for the user to understand that they have
> updates that *need* installing.
>
> Analogy time. Imagine installing updates is like paying your bills. I'd
> much rather have a letter come through the door when a bill was due. That's
> how I receive all sorts of other notifications. The current update
> notification (update manager popping up) is like waking up in the morning to
> find an agent of the company sitting in your kitchen asking for payment.
> It's intrusive and confusing.
>
> My suggestion is more intrusive than than the old behaviour but only
> because I know several people who just didn't understand what the orange
> update icon meant. An actionable balloon doesn't get in the way like a
> window does but it lets the user know that something needs doing.
>
> The extension to my idea would allow trivial updates to be done *from the
> balloon* which I think would make things even easier for non-power users
> who don't need or want to know what updates are going to be installed.
>
> But as I said before, before any changes are made, there needs to be a
> system in place so we can track how successful any given update model is.
> Very hard to guess how non-power-user treat the current methods. They might
> be ignored even more than the little orange icon. They might be a raving
> success. Who knows?!
>
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Re: Jaunty's update notifications

[(``-_-´´) -- BUGabundo]

Olá Matthew e a todos.

On Friday 24 April 2009 09:59:08 Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
> > If not, why on earth not?
> 
> That's something we need to discuss further. There are benefits to
> installing security updates automatically, but there are also costs,
> especially with updates to programs such as Firefox that malfunction if
> you are running them while they are being updated.

And because, some may require services to be restarted, which is never a good 
idea.

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Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team

[Caroline Ford]

Improving FOSS games at a distro level? Why not just participate  
upstream?


Also are you going to work with the Debian games team and work on  
packaging?


Caroline

Sent from a mobile device.

On 24 Apr 2009, at 09:33, Danny Piccirillo  
 wrote:


In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu Gaming Team  
has been formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of  
today, the team is now open for anyone to join and participate in.  
Working towards improving FOSS games and developing its community  
will turn a significant barrier against Ubuntu adoption into an  
appealing reason to switch.


The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles hindering  
growth in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed  
content management or significant investment in free content  
development in order to promote FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and  
Ubuntu through FOSS gaming. New ideas are encouraged and appreciated.


FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality games is one  
of the most cited reasons preventing users from switching from  
Windows. Gamers, who currently feed off of the proprietary software  
model, represent a large and valuable user base. They will not even  
begin to gradually migrate to Ubuntu until their needs are met. They  
are very capable of understanding the ideological and technical  
benefits of using a free operating system like Ubuntu, and are often  
interested in switching, but higher value is placed on high quality  
gaming and the entire demographic will not budge until the pragmatic  
advantages of open source actualize through FOSS gaming.


The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push for  
commercial games  on Linux as significant effort is already put into  
the development of Wine and pressuring video game publishers to port  
their work to Linux. Once FOSS gaming reaches its "tipping point",  
code and content will be easily reused to foster the development of  
new games and innovative ideas in gaming. The Ubuntu Gaming Team  
fills a great need for an organized effort to support FOSS gaming.
http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming- 
team.html


Launchpad: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaming
Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam
#ubuntu-gaming
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Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team

[Dotan Cohen]

2009/4/24 Oli Warner :
> How do you expect FOSS to make serious gains into the gaming market? Big
> commercial games (read COD, Oblivion, Fallout, most RPGs) are like
> interactive movies and they take about the same amount of money and manpower
> to produce... That's something FOSS is rarely going to be able to reproduce.
>
> You're treating this as if Windows gamers don't use Ubuntu because they
> don't have enough access to FOSS games. Truth is, most popular FOSS games
> have binary installers for Windows but you ask one Windows gamer if they
> care about something like Nexuiz and chances are they've never heard of it
> because they're too busy with the likes of Fallout 3, Bioshock, Assassins
> Creed or Call of Duty World at War. That's where the problem is; studios
> aren't making the games for Linux so gamers don't migrate.
>
> It's Chicken vs Egg. You're pushing for the Chicken. Get the gamers here and
> studios will make the games cross-platform. But I think you infinitely more
> chance of success backing the Egg. "If you build it, they will come"
>
> If I were you, I'd talk to small independent game studios. Give them a
> route-to-market (coming up next) and help them with the development. There
> are a couple of companies that provide porting services but they're not
> in-house, they're not cheap and they're not ideal for the end-users.
>
> They're still commercial games, so they still need to sell. One thing
> stopping companies moving over is there isn't a decent platform for selling
> their games. If there was "a Steam" for Linux, showing off the best of Linux
> gaming (both FOSS and commercial), I think a LOT more companies (large and
> small) would consider Linux as a viable platform.
>
> Once that reaches critical mass, your work is done. Critical mass. More
> users will move over and more companies will develop for it.
>

Yes, but look what happens when game devs try to port their work to Linux:
http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/09/mini-rant.html

No wonder they stay far away.

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Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team

[Vincenzo Ciancia]

Il giorno ven, 24/04/2009 alle 14.48 +0300, Dotan Cohen ha scritto:
> 
> Yes, but look what happens when game devs try to port their work to
> Linux:
> http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/09/mini-rant.html
> 
> No wonder they stay far away.

I looked at the blog post you pointed out. You should stay away of such
a stupid thing as a blog for hating something. Indeed the blog post is
biased. If you follow the link, you'll find a set of normal questions
from a non-linux game developer, and the first answers that they got are
entirely reasonable. There's not so much to say: SDL is dated but it's
working well. OpenGL is the state-of-the-art 3d graphics library.
That's what i can read in the replies.

And the conclusion is that linux for now may have worse tools, but
you'll surely get the job done.

V.

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Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team

[Scott Kitterman]

First, apologies for the off topic cross-posting to many lists, but it was
really hard for me to tell which one to drop.

> In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu Gaming Team has
> been
> formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of today, the team
> is
> now open for anyone to join and participate in. Working towards improving
> FOSS games and developing its community will turn a significant barrier
> against Ubuntu adoption into an appealing reason to switch.
>
> The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles hindering growth
> in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed content
> management
> or significant investment in free content development in order to promote
> FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and Ubuntu through FOSS gaming. New ideas are
> encouraged and appreciated.

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but with your choice of names is going to
cause problems.  First, while an effort like you are describing might
benefit Ubuntu, it is not about doing anything within Ubuntu (the distro),
it seems to be about trying to leverage the Ubuntu community towards a
goal.

As it happens, Ubuntu (the distro) already has a team that works with
Debian on packaging FOSS games for Debian and Ubuntu.  This team is the
Debian Games team.  Based on the first reply to your message, you've
already created a point of confusion.  Ubuntu (the distro) doesn't need a
team to cooperate with the Debian games team as it is already a joint
Debian/Ubuntu team (this isn't the only case of this - another example is
the pkg-clamav team that works on packaging clamav and related packages).

I would encourage you to reconsider your choice of names and select one
that isn't going to cause confusion.

> FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality games is one of
> the
> most cited reasons preventing users from switching from Windows. Gamers,
> who
> currently feed off of the proprietary software model, represent a large
> and
> valuable user base. They will not even begin to gradually migrate to
> Ubuntu
> until their needs are met. They are very capable of understanding the
> ideological and technical benefits of using a free operating system like
> Ubuntu, and are often interested in switching, but higher value is placed
> on
> high quality gaming and the entire demographic will not budge until the
> pragmatic advantages of open source actualize through FOSS gaming.
>
> The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push for commercial
> games
>  on Linux as significant effort is already put into the development of
> Wine
> and pressuring video game publishers to port their work to Linux. Once
> FOSS
> gaming reaches its "tipping point", code and content will be easily reused
> to foster the development of new games and innovative ideas in gaming. The
> Ubuntu Gaming Team fills a great need for an organized effort to support
> FOSS gaming.
> http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming-team.html

I think you are using the name Ubuntu here is a way that is really
confusing.  This isn't about Ubuntu gaming, it's about FOSS game
development.

> Launchpad: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaming
> Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam
> #ubuntu-gaming 

> Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list

Finally, you sent this to an Ubuntu development list.  This list is to
discuss development of Ubuntu.  Your announcement seems to be at most
about development ON Ubuntu, not development OF Ubuntu.  I think it's off
topic.

I would encourage you to consider your goal and brand your team more
appropriately to that goal.

Scott K


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Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team

[Danny Piccirillo]

Could a solution be to simply link to Debian/Ubuntu games team for
packaging? It may have caused a tiny bit of confusion with the announcement,
but i really don't foresee any other confusion. If it becomes a problem then
it'll definitely be worth changing, but i don't think it will be.

thanks,
.danny

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 08:40, Scott Kitterman  wrote:

> First, apologies for the off topic cross-posting to many lists, but it was
> really hard for me to tell which one to drop.
>
> > In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu Gaming Team has
> > been
> > formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of today, the team
> > is
> > now open for anyone to join and participate in. Working towards improving
> > FOSS games and developing its community will turn a significant barrier
> > against Ubuntu adoption into an appealing reason to switch.
> >
> > The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles hindering
> growth
> > in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed content
> > management
> > or significant investment in free content development in order to promote
> > FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and Ubuntu through FOSS gaming. New ideas are
> > encouraged and appreciated.
>
> I appreciate the enthusiasm, but with your choice of names is going to
> cause problems.  First, while an effort like you are describing might
> benefit Ubuntu, it is not about doing anything within Ubuntu (the distro),
> it seems to be about trying to leverage the Ubuntu community towards a
> goal.
>
> As it happens, Ubuntu (the distro) already has a team that works with
> Debian on packaging FOSS games for Debian and Ubuntu.  This team is the
> Debian Games team.  Based on the first reply to your message, you've
> already created a point of confusion.  Ubuntu (the distro) doesn't need a
> team to cooperate with the Debian games team as it is already a joint
> Debian/Ubuntu team (this isn't the only case of this - another example is
> the pkg-clamav team that works on packaging clamav and related packages).
>
> I would encourage you to reconsider your choice of names and select one
> that isn't going to cause confusion.
>
> > FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality games is one of
> > the
> > most cited reasons preventing users from switching from Windows. Gamers,
> > who
> > currently feed off of the proprietary software model, represent a large
> > and
> > valuable user base. They will not even begin to gradually migrate to
> > Ubuntu
> > until their needs are met. They are very capable of understanding the
> > ideological and technical benefits of using a free operating system like
> > Ubuntu, and are often interested in switching, but higher value is placed
> > on
> > high quality gaming and the entire demographic will not budge until the
> > pragmatic advantages of open source actualize through FOSS gaming.
> >
> > The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push for commercial
> > games
> >  on Linux as significant effort is already put into the development of
> > Wine
> > and pressuring video game publishers to port their work to Linux. Once
> > FOSS
> > gaming reaches its "tipping point", code and content will be easily
> reused
> > to foster the development of new games and innovative ideas in gaming.
> The
> > Ubuntu Gaming Team fills a great need for an organized effort to support
> > FOSS gaming.
> > http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming-team.html
>
> I think you are using the name Ubuntu here is a way that is really
> confusing.  This isn't about Ubuntu gaming, it's about FOSS game
> development.
>
> > Launchpad: 
> > https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaming
> > Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam
> > #ubuntu-gaming <
> http://java.freenode.net//index.php?channel=ubuntu-gaming>
>
> > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
>
> Finally, you sent this to an Ubuntu development list.  This list is to
> discuss development of Ubuntu.  Your announcement seems to be at most
> about development ON Ubuntu, not development OF Ubuntu.  I think it's off
> topic.
>
> I would encourage you to consider your goal and brand your team more
> appropriately to that goal.
>
> Scott K
>
>
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Re: No inverse searches for dvi files in ubuntu - please read!

[Vincenzo Ciancia]

Il giorno gio, 16/10/2008 alle 22.27 -0400, Scott Kitterman ha scritto:
> 
> 
> The story has a happy ending.  Today kdvi got back into the archive
> after I 
> bent the old kdegraphics package from KDE3 into building it in a way
> that's 
> compatible with the kdegraphics package from KDE4.
> 
> Scott K

I upgraded to jaunty final and with my great disappointment I lost kdvi.
I don't see it in the repositories, why? 

V.



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Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team

[Scott Kitterman]

Top posting fixed.  Ugh.
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 08:40, Scott Kitterman 
> wrote:
>
>> First, apologies for the off topic cross-posting to many lists, but it
>> was
>> really hard for me to tell which one to drop.
>>
>> > In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu Gaming Team has
>> > been
>> > formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of today, the
>> team
>> > is
>> > now open for anyone to join and participate in. Working towards
>> improving
>> > FOSS games and developing its community will turn a significant
>> barrier
>> > against Ubuntu adoption into an appealing reason to switch.
>> >
>> > The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles hindering
>> growth
>> > in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed content
>> > management
>> > or significant investment in free content development in order to
>> promote
>> > FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and Ubuntu through FOSS gaming. New ideas
>> are
>> > encouraged and appreciated.
>>
>> I appreciate the enthusiasm, but with your choice of names is going to
>> cause problems.  First, while an effort like you are describing might
>> benefit Ubuntu, it is not about doing anything within Ubuntu (the
>> distro),
>> it seems to be about trying to leverage the Ubuntu community towards a
>> goal.
>>
>> As it happens, Ubuntu (the distro) already has a team that works with
>> Debian on packaging FOSS games for Debian and Ubuntu.  This team is the
>> Debian Games team.  Based on the first reply to your message, you've
>> already created a point of confusion.  Ubuntu (the distro) doesn't need
>> a
>> team to cooperate with the Debian games team as it is already a joint
>> Debian/Ubuntu team (this isn't the only case of this - another example
>> is
>> the pkg-clamav team that works on packaging clamav and related
>> packages).
>>
>> I would encourage you to reconsider your choice of names and select one
>> that isn't going to cause confusion.
>>
>> > FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality games is one
>> of
>> > the
>> > most cited reasons preventing users from switching from Windows.
>> Gamers,
>> > who
>> > currently feed off of the proprietary software model, represent a
>> large
>> > and
>> > valuable user base. They will not even begin to gradually migrate to
>> > Ubuntu
>> > until their needs are met. They are very capable of understanding the
>> > ideological and technical benefits of using a free operating system
>> like
>> > Ubuntu, and are often interested in switching, but higher value is
>> placed
>> > on
>> > high quality gaming and the entire demographic will not budge until
>> the
>> > pragmatic advantages of open source actualize through FOSS gaming.
>> >
>> > The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push for commercial
>> > games
>> >  on Linux as significant effort is already put into the development of
>> > Wine
>> > and pressuring video game publishers to port their work to Linux. Once
>> > FOSS
>> > gaming reaches its "tipping point", code and content will be easily
>> reused
>> > to foster the development of new games and innovative ideas in gaming.
>> The
>> > Ubuntu Gaming Team fills a great need for an organized effort to
>> support
>> > FOSS gaming.
>> > http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming-team.html
>>
>> I think you are using the name Ubuntu here is a way that is really
>> confusing.  This isn't about Ubuntu gaming, it's about FOSS game
>> development.
>>
>> > Launchpad:
>> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaming
>> > Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam
>> > #ubuntu-gaming <
>> http://java.freenode.net//index.php?channel=ubuntu-gaming>
>>
>> > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
>>
>> Finally, you sent this to an Ubuntu development list.  This list is to
>> discuss development of Ubuntu.  Your announcement seems to be at most
>> about development ON Ubuntu, not development OF Ubuntu.  I think it's
>> off
>> topic.
>>
>> I would encourage you to consider your goal and brand your team more
>> appropriately to that goal.

> Could a solution be to simply link to Debian/Ubuntu games team for
> packaging? It may have caused a tiny bit of confusion with the
> announcement,
> but i really don't foresee any other confusion. If it becomes a problem
> then
> it'll definitely be worth changing, but i don't think it will be.

It already is a problem.  I think this team is woefully misnamed.

The Debian games team is not the packaging subsidiary of your team.

As I said, I think you chose very poorly in your approach to naming this
team.  There is nothing Ubuntu specific about it.

Scott K

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Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team

[Danny Piccirillo]

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 09:02, Scott Kitterman  wrote:

> Top posting fixed.  Ugh.
> > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 08:40, Scott Kitterman 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> First, apologies for the off topic cross-posting to many lists, but it
> >> was
> >> really hard for me to tell which one to drop.
> >>
> >> > In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu Gaming Team has
> >> > been
> >> > formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of today, the
> >> team
> >> > is
> >> > now open for anyone to join and participate in. Working towards
> >> improving
> >> > FOSS games and developing its community will turn a significant
> >> barrier
> >> > against Ubuntu adoption into an appealing reason to switch.
> >> >
> >> > The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles hindering
> >> growth
> >> > in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed content
> >> > management
> >> > or significant investment in free content development in order to
> >> promote
> >> > FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and Ubuntu through FOSS gaming. New ideas
> >> are
> >> > encouraged and appreciated.
> >>
> >> I appreciate the enthusiasm, but with your choice of names is going to
> >> cause problems.  First, while an effort like you are describing might
> >> benefit Ubuntu, it is not about doing anything within Ubuntu (the
> >> distro),
> >> it seems to be about trying to leverage the Ubuntu community towards a
> >> goal.
> >>
> >> As it happens, Ubuntu (the distro) already has a team that works with
> >> Debian on packaging FOSS games for Debian and Ubuntu.  This team is the
> >> Debian Games team.  Based on the first reply to your message, you've
> >> already created a point of confusion.  Ubuntu (the distro) doesn't need
> >> a
> >> team to cooperate with the Debian games team as it is already a joint
> >> Debian/Ubuntu team (this isn't the only case of this - another example
> >> is
> >> the pkg-clamav team that works on packaging clamav and related
> >> packages).
> >>
> >> I would encourage you to reconsider your choice of names and select one
> >> that isn't going to cause confusion.
> >>
> >> > FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality games is one
> >> of
> >> > the
> >> > most cited reasons preventing users from switching from Windows.
> >> Gamers,
> >> > who
> >> > currently feed off of the proprietary software model, represent a
> >> large
> >> > and
> >> > valuable user base. They will not even begin to gradually migrate to
> >> > Ubuntu
> >> > until their needs are met. They are very capable of understanding the
> >> > ideological and technical benefits of using a free operating system
> >> like
> >> > Ubuntu, and are often interested in switching, but higher value is
> >> placed
> >> > on
> >> > high quality gaming and the entire demographic will not budge until
> >> the
> >> > pragmatic advantages of open source actualize through FOSS gaming.
> >> >
> >> > The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push for commercial
> >> > games
> >> >  on Linux as significant effort is already put into the development of
> >> > Wine
> >> > and pressuring video game publishers to port their work to Linux. Once
> >> > FOSS
> >> > gaming reaches its "tipping point", code and content will be easily
> >> reused
> >> > to foster the development of new games and innovative ideas in gaming.
> >> The
> >> > Ubuntu Gaming Team fills a great need for an organized effort to
> >> support
> >> > FOSS gaming.
> >> >
> http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming-team.html
> >>
> >> I think you are using the name Ubuntu here is a way that is really
> >> confusing.  This isn't about Ubuntu gaming, it's about FOSS game
> >> development.
> >>
> >> > Launchpad:
> >> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaming
> 
> >> > Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam
> >> > #ubuntu-gaming <
> >> http://java.freenode.net//index.php?channel=ubuntu-gaming>
> >>
> >> > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
> >>
> >> Finally, you sent this to an Ubuntu development list.  This list is to
> >> discuss development of Ubuntu.  Your announcement seems to be at most
> >> about development ON Ubuntu, not development OF Ubuntu.  I think it's
> >> off
> >> topic.
> >>
> >> I would encourage you to consider your goal and brand your team more
> >> appropriately to that goal.
>
> > Could a solution be to simply link to Debian/Ubuntu games team for
> > packaging? It may have caused a tiny bit of confusion with the
> > announcement,
> > but i really don't foresee any other confusion. If it becomes a problem
> > then
> > it'll definitely be worth changing, but i don't think it will be.
>
> It already is a problem.  I think this team is woefully misnamed.
>
> The Debian games team is not the packaging subsidiary of your team.
>
> As I said, I think you chose very poorly in your approach to naming this
> team.  There is nothing Ubuntu specific a

Re: [Ubuntu-gaming] Ubuntu Gaming Team

[Philip Wyett]

On Fri, 2009-04-24 at 09:08 -0400, Danny Piccirillo wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 09:02, Scott Kitterman 
> wrote:
> Top posting fixed.  Ugh.
> 
> > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 08:40, Scott Kitterman
> 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> First, apologies for the off topic cross-posting to many
> lists, but it
> >> was
> >> really hard for me to tell which one to drop.
> >>
> >> > In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu
> Gaming Team has
> >> > been
> >> > formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of
> today, the
> >> team
> >> > is
> >> > now open for anyone to join and participate in. Working
> towards
> >> improving
> >> > FOSS games and developing its community will turn a
> significant
> >> barrier
> >> > against Ubuntu adoption into an appealing reason to
> switch.
> >> >
> >> > The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles
> hindering
> >> growth
> >> > in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed
> content
> >> > management
> >> > or significant investment in free content development in
> order to
> >> promote
> >> > FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and Ubuntu through FOSS
> gaming. New ideas
> >> are
> >> > encouraged and appreciated.
> >>
> >> I appreciate the enthusiasm, but with your choice of names
> is going to
> >> cause problems.  First, while an effort like you are
> describing might
> >> benefit Ubuntu, it is not about doing anything within
> Ubuntu (the
> >> distro),
> >> it seems to be about trying to leverage the Ubuntu
> community towards a
> >> goal.
> >>
> >> As it happens, Ubuntu (the distro) already has a team that
> works with
> >> Debian on packaging FOSS games for Debian and Ubuntu.  This
> team is the
> >> Debian Games team.  Based on the first reply to your
> message, you've
> >> already created a point of confusion.  Ubuntu (the distro)
> doesn't need
> >> a
> >> team to cooperate with the Debian games team as it is
> already a joint
> >> Debian/Ubuntu team (this isn't the only case of this -
> another example
> >> is
> >> the pkg-clamav team that works on packaging clamav and
> related
> >> packages).
> >>
> >> I would encourage you to reconsider your choice of names
> and select one
> >> that isn't going to cause confusion.
> >>
> >> > FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality
> games is one
> >> of
> >> > the
> >> > most cited reasons preventing users from switching from
> Windows.
> >> Gamers,
> >> > who
> >> > currently feed off of the proprietary software model,
> represent a
> >> large
> >> > and
> >> > valuable user base. They will not even begin to gradually
> migrate to
> >> > Ubuntu
> >> > until their needs are met. They are very capable of
> understanding the
> >> > ideological and technical benefits of using a free
> operating system
> >> like
> >> > Ubuntu, and are often interested in switching, but higher
> value is
> >> placed
> >> > on
> >> > high quality gaming and the entire demographic will not
> budge until
> >> the
> >> > pragmatic advantages of open source actualize through
> FOSS gaming.
> >> >
> >> > The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push
> for commercial
> >> > games
> >> >  on Linux as significant effort is already put into the
> development of
> >> > Wine
> >> > and pressuring video game publishers to port their work
> to Linux. Once
> >> > FOSS
> >> > gaming reaches its "tipping point", code and content will
> be easily
> >> reused
> >> > to foster the development of new games and innovative
> ideas in gaming.
> >> The
> >> > Ubuntu Gaming Team fills a great need for an organized
> effort to
> >> support
> >> > FOSS gaming.
> >> >
> 
> http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming-team.html
> >>
> >> I think you are using the name Ubuntu here is a way that is
> really
> >> confusing.  This isn't about Ubuntu gaming, it's about FOSS
> game
> >> development.
> >>
> >> > Launchpad:
> 
> >>
> 
> https://edge

Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team

[Dotan Cohen]

> I looked at the blog post you pointed out. You should stay away of such
> a stupid thing as a blog for hating something. Indeed the blog post is
> biased. If you follow the link, you'll find a set of normal questions
> from a non-linux game developer, and the first answers that they got are
> entirely reasonable. There's not so much to say: SDL is dated but it's
> working well. OpenGL is the state-of-the-art 3d graphics library.
> That's what i can read in the replies.
>

Not at all. The Linux Hater's blog is a Linux advocate who is showing
what is wrong with Linux and the FOSS community in general.

> And the conclusion is that linux for now may have worse tools, but
> you'll surely get the job done.
>

The conclusion was that the dev was attacked by the Linux community
for various reasons, mostly his unwillingness to have GCC, Xorg and
other components patched. He did not want a kludge.

The problem is that Linux does not yet offer a stable API to game
devs. Just look at Pulse Audio.

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il

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Re: ssh-add

[Marius Gedminas]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 08:58:46AM -0600, Hatem Nassrat wrote:
> piping /dev/null to ssh-add, or running ssh-add not from a TTY causes
> SSH_ASKPASS to be triggered on all OS and Desktops including
> (K)Ubuntu.
> 
> Similarly under Ubuntu (Gnome) trying to ssh to a machine will pop-up
> SSH_ASKPASS whether or not a valid TTY is present. This is not the
> case with Kubuntu, how can I make Kubuntu be the same in that
> respect...

Unfortunately I don't know how exactly is Ubuntu's magic is implemented.

I've been using this shell script as a wrapper for ssh for a while:

  #!/bin/sh
  if [ -n "$SSH_AGENT_PID" ]; then
# See if ssh-agent has any identities, and if not, add some
ssh-add -l > /dev/null || ssh-add
  fi
  exec /usr/bin/ssh "$@"

If you change it to invoke ssh-add 

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Re: No inverse searches for dvi files in ubuntu - please read!

[Andreas Wenning]

On Friday 24 April 2009 14:48:28 Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
> I upgraded to jaunty final and with my great disappointment I lost kdvi.
> I don't see it in the repositories, why?

Okular is the default dvi viewer for Kubuntu and it now (as in kde 4.2 / 
jaunty) supports dvi reverse search.

Regards,
Andreas
-- 
 ,-¤.  Kubuntu Linux
¤; http://www.kubuntu.org
 `-¤'  Linux for Human Beings

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Re: Jaunty's update notifications

[Ernst Persson]

http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/904#Change%20in%20notifications%20of%20available%20updates

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 17:06, George Farris  wrote:
> I agree this is a real set back for me.  Please at least give us the
> choice of window or notification, maybe window first with a check mark
> to move to notification.  Having a window pop up is horrible.

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Re: No inverse searches for dvi files in ubuntu - please read!

[Scott Kitterman]

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 18:35:33 +0200 Andreas Wenning  
wrote:
>On Friday 24 April 2009 14:48:28 Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
>> I upgraded to jaunty final and with my great disappointment I lost kdvi.
>> I don't see it in the repositories, why?
>
>Okular is the default dvi viewer for Kubuntu and it now (as in kde 4.2 / 
>jaunty) supports dvi reverse search.
>
Precisely. I packaged kdvi  from KDE 3 kdegrapics as a stopgap to provide 
this capability in Intrepid since no KDE4 package provided it in KDE 4.1.  
It's time has now passed.

I think as people experience KDE 4.2 they will find it a significant 
improvement over KDE 4.1 that we shipped with Intrepid and there is very 
little to miss from KDE3 anymore.

Scott K

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Disabling update-manager

[John Vivirito]

Without removing update-manager i have tried to uncheck everything in
gconf-editor under update-manager and update-notifier. I also unchecked
check updates in software sources and yet it still pops up all the time.
Am i missing a setting somewhere?

-- 
Sincerely Yours,
John Vivirito

https://launchpad.net/~gnomefreak
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnVivirito
Linux User# 414246

"How can i get lost, if i have no where to go"
-- Metallica from Unforgiven III



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