Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated flexible metal cable
Peter, What you describe almost sounds like Teck Cable -- General Specifications & Standard Design Features - Teck Cable. Teck cable generally has an outer PVC covering that covers the flexible aluminum "armor', although i have seen it without the outer PVC jacket (aluminum exposed). This is a great multi-purpose armored cable that is outdoor, direct burial rated. I haven't seen/used teck containing data cable, but assume that it is quite likely available. While not that great looking for some locations, for others, it certainly can save time and effort when used instead of running conduit and then having to pulling the wires in. Cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:This email, including any attachments, contains information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. > From: peter.parr...@calsolareng.com > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 08:36:45 -0700 > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated flexible metal cable > > I recently had the opportunity to visit a City of Los Angeles Remote > Automated Weather Station (RAWS). See > http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?s=mtw&d=now&span=24hours > > I noticed that the system was wired using a flexible metal cable (1/2"). It > had a continuous outer metallic covering that looked to be aluminum. I asked > my host about the cable and he said that he hadn't been involved in the > installation and didn't know much about conduit/cable/wire. The conditions > are certainly "damp" i.e. outdoors, but I don't know about "wet". The cable > runs were completely exposed to the weather. > > The cable carried low voltage "data" and "power". I am pretty sure it didn't > carry 120/240Vac, but again my host didn't know. > > Does any one know what this cable might be? > > If you would like a photo, I could send one off-line. > > - Peter > > > Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President > California Solar Engineering, Inc. > 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 > CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 > peter.parr...@calsolareng.com > Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Modules Compatible with Concrete tile roofs
Peter,I did a 15kW BIPV install on a home with GE Geko modules in two stages, first (7.7kW) in 2006, and second (7.33kW) in 2008. The 2006 modules were 55 W and the 2008 mods were 66 W. I wasn't too impressed with the quality of the GE modules and would prefer not to use them again, which is fine because as you suspected, they no longer make them.I was (currently in limbo) working with a client on a 9kW system which i was going to use the Sunteck modules you mentioned, called SolarBlend. Yes, they have a polycarbonate frame (no bonding). Different?, yes. Clever idea?, maybe. What is your hesitation regarding these frames? Attention must be paid to the spacing of the horizontal battens that the modules rest on otherwise some cells may be partially covered. Be sure that the roofer knows this and is diligent in spacing them properly. Doesn't hurt to randomly check the spacing for yourself every few rows. On a system follow up check, i noticed that some of the 2008 system modules were suffering from sagging frames!!! The lower edge of some frames had sagged down somewhat, allowing various debris to get stuck btwn the frame and the glass. Much of the debris was little bits and pieces of roofing tile and coniferous needles. Thanks for the reminder, I ended up getting tired of unanswered emails/phone calls trying to track someone down to answer for this issue. Does anyone have contact info for a possible warranty claim from GE? Also, when it came time to double check string voltages and fire up the system, wouldn't ya know it there was a ground fault! And of course all the wiring is now completely concealed within the roof. With some help from SMA support, we were able to determine an approximate location of the fault. Luckily it was close to the end of the last installed string.Soo, i started removing tiles and modules to find the fault. After pulling up only 7 or 8 modules (out of a possible 37) i found the problem. A roofing nail for a concrete tile right thru the center of a conductor, and luckily it also went thru the bare bond wire strands as well. Had it not contacted the bond wire.the fault would not have been found! question; this is obviously a hazard, but can someone explain HOW is a 'hot' nail only touching a piece of wood a fire hazard. Is it because of the heat produced from the loose 'connection' creates a fire hazard? Is it possible that the nail could get hot enuf to ignite the wood? is there potential for arcing? ...to what? No experience with the Sharp product. cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY > From: peter.parr...@calsolareng.com > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 10:05:31 -0700 > Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV Modules Compatible with Concrete tile roofs > > About a year and a half ago we did a few installations on flat concrete tile > roofs. We used both the GE product and the Sharp product. We liked the Sharp > product a little better. > > We are now being asked to begin working with a client who is about 6 months > away from new construction and is looking at roof options and PV. He is not > set on the roof type but flat concrete tile is among his options. > > Does anyone have direct experience with PV products that integrate with flat > concrete tile? I don't even know if Sharp and GE still manufacture their > products, and I heard something about Suntech coming out with a plastic > framed product but I would be very wary of that approach. > > - Peter > > Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President > California Solar Engineering, Inc. > 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 > CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 > peter.parr...@calsolareng.com > Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset
Wrenches, I'm looking at trying out another 'solar site evaluation tool', the ASSET (Acme Solar Site Evaluation Tool) from Wiley Electronics. I'm looking for feedback on its performance and user-ability.I have been using the pathfinder which is great, but not the pathfinder software. Any comments on the ASSET or Pathfinder software would be greatly appreciated. Cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset
Thanks for the feed back guys, much appreciated! Now, how would you calculate for power/phone lines running thru the Pathfinder's reflection. There are about 6 of them (the largest being at least 1") at least 25-30 ft away directly east of the proposed array location, and they are running straight north-south. On the Pathfinder they run btwn 9 and 11am in June and btwn 10:30 and 11:30 in December. Would the pathfinder software, suneye or asset pick up on utility lines at that distance? How much effect do they have on available sun output? And while i'm at it, how much do the 'software' tools pick up on the tips of leafless tree branches at say 25ft, 50ft? i'll try out that spreadsheet idea, nice one! cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 20:05:08 -0700 To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org From: will...@millersolar.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset Benn: A colleague has used the Wiley took and calls it 'marginal.' I use the Pathfinder and I like the features Ray described. I wrote a very simple spreadsheet using the teeny numbers on the month lines to create 100% of any month. I highlight and delete any of the numbers that are shaded and the remainder is the percent of exposure for a given month. You can multiply the output of PV watts or any other production result for a complete production prediction. Easy and free. William Miller At 05:38 PM 9/8/2010, you wrote: I've used the Pathfinder for decades, so I'm partial to them. Great for on-site discussions of shading issues with the customer, as multiple people can see the shading at the same time on the spot. I've also used their Assistant software, and it works pretty well. You take a photo of the actual pathfinder from above, and then download the photo into their software. You can then calculate total annual impact of any shading in Kwh, or percentage of annual production. I've been quite happy with the system, and the price for a Pathfinder, and the software is much less than the Suneye, I believe. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Sep 8, 2010, at 3:46 PM, benn kilburn wrote: Wrenches, I'm looking at trying out another 'solar site evaluation tool', the ASSET (Acme Solar Site Evaluation Tool) from Wiley Electronics. I'm looking for feedback on its performance and user-ability. I have been using the pathfinder which is great, but not the pathfinder software. Any comments on the ASSET or Pathfinder software would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3121 - Release Date: 09/08/10 06:07:00 Please note new e-mail address and domain: William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset
Kent, Nick,Great feedback on this utility line shading topic. So, what i understand from this is, yes there is a noticeable effect (loss of energy production) at the time of shading, but because of the short time period of shading, there is little reduction in overall daily output. Thanks to Enphase's slick per/module monitoring, issues like this can more easily be investigated and accurately noted.Any other remarks on utility lines shading arrays? Thanks to everyone else who commented on the 'solar resource tool' options. I think i'll pass on the ASSET and even hold off on the SunEye for a bit. I have been fairly satisfied with the Pathfinder myself, i was just putting out feelers as the ASSET was offered to me at a good price. cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 11:07:28 -0700 From: nicksoleilso...@yahoo.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset Hi Kent: At my site, the wire is directly above the module, and the module is oriented with a 210 deg. AZ, and the shadow is there most of the day. It is a very clear, visible shadow and has had no effect on output. Strangely, that module has produced more power than any other module on the roof. So maybe it helps the output, I doubt that, though. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Kent Osterberg To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 10:50:38 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset Nick, Depending on the hours that the shadow is on the module, that indeed may be the case. I have a similar circumstance with a recent Enphase installation too: the shadow of a triplex service cable about 6 feet away shadows the lower half of the array from sunrise until 7:00 am (in the summer it won't last as long but in the winter it'll last longer). During the time in question, the power output is reduced by nearly 20%, yet the energy output for the day is only reduced by 0.2% because the shadow doesn't last long and it occurs at a time when the power output is low. The effect on energy production depends on how large the shadow is, how long it lasts, and what hours it occurs. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar Nick Soleil wrote: Hi Kent: I am sure that aerial wires have very little impact on system outputs. I just checked the Enphase Enlighten data for a system I recently installed, which had a 1-2" to 3/4" wire bundle running just 5' above a solar modules. The wire cast a distinct shadow on the module in question, but upon reviewing the output of that module, compared with all other modules at the same orientation, I have found that there is absolutely no effect on the production. I am surprised that I can not even see any difference. That module has always produced within 99% of the other modules on that roof, and the total output of that module is as high or higher than the other modules! Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 From: Kent Osterberg To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 9:38:55 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset Benn, At 25 ft a 1-inch power line subtends an angle of 0.2 degree. The sun subtends an angle of 0.5 degree, so the power line will not make a dark shadow on the modules - only 50% of the light can be blocked. Depending on the distance from the module to the wire, along the ray to the sun, the wire will probably block a little less light. But a 50% reduction in the light on a few cells will probably reduce the entire module output by 50%. A shadow every day for the hours you are talking about sounds like a pretty serious issue. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar benn kilburn wrote: Thanks for the feed back guys, much appreciated! Now, how would you calculate for power/phone lines running thru the Pathfinder's reflection. There are about 6 of them (the largest being at least 1") at least 25-30 ft away directly east of the proposed array location, and they are running straight north-south. On the Pathfinder they run btwn 9 and 11am in June and btwn 10:30 and 11:30 in December. Would the pathfinder software, suneye or asset pick up on utility lines at that distance? How much effect do they have on available sun output? And while i'm at it, how much do the 'software' tools pick up on the tips of leafless tree branches at say 25ft, 50ft? i'll try out that spreadsheet idea, nice one! cheers, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca
Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB
Hopefully any crew installing PV, and familiar with this debate (which they should be) can easily distinguish between the GBL-4 and the GBL-4DBT. The weight difference is quite noticeable. If it feels light for its size, it's aluminum, dont use it!!! If it has some distinct weight to it, then it's most likely the copper DBT, giv'er! So what other non-conductive materials are out there that could help resolve this frame bonding issue? Sunteck's BIPV SolarBlend module uses a polycarbonate frame which requires no bonding. Do any of you have any experiences with these? How were they to handle, install? Do they offer any hope or support for non-metallic module frames? benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAYFrom: r...@solarray.com Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 11:14:36 -0600 To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB I didn't do the original install, and I couldn't ID the lug because of the corrosion.I believe everyone is correct that this isn't the DBT rated lug, though.Another reason to use the WEEB: a crew can't accidentally install the wrong (but almost identical, when new) lug. I'm sure the non-DBT lugs got mixed together in a bin at some point. R. walters...@solarray.comsolar Engineer On Sep 12, 2010, at 5:41 PM, Jamie Johnson wrote: That looks like a tin plated aluminum lug (aluminum corrosion) with a plated steel screw (rusted screw)... Here is an explanation of the differences between both ILSCO GBL 4 lugs from John Wiles Code Corner in Homepower issue 102 "The Ilsco GBL-4DBT is a lay-in lug made of solid copper, which is then tin-plated. It has a stainless steel screw to hold the wire. The lug accepts a #14 (2 mm2) to #4 (21 mm2) copper conductor. It is listed for direct burial (DB) and outdoor use and can be attached to aluminum structures (the tin plate). The much cheaper Ilsco GBL-4 lug looks identical, but is tin-plated aluminum, has a plated screw, and is not listed for outdoor use." Jamie Johnson NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #031310-118 General Manager SOLAR POWER ELECTRIC EC13001765 Original Message Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB From: "Peter Parrish" Date: Sun, September 12, 2010 6:50 pm To: "'RE-wrenches'" Are you sure that's a ILSCO GBL-4DBT lug? I am pretty sure the set screw is not SS, which it should be to be the genuine part. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of R Ray Walters Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 3:10 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB A picture is worth a thousand words, (hopefully this will upload) Here's a traditional Ilsco Lug after less than 5 years near the ocean: ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Accessable?
Wrenches,There has been some mention on this list lately of locating Soladeck and/or other combiner boxes under arrays. This has me wondering if folks are doing this only for a cleaner looking roof array or if there are other reasonable intentions (lack of available roof space). Other than a cleaner look, i see no benefit to doing this. (don't get me wrong, a cleanly installed array is something to be proud of) However if the box ever needs to be accessed, you have to remove at least one module to get to it, dealing with the whole 'breaking the bond' issue; having to remove the module, replacing the WEEB clip or undoing and then re-torquing the lug set screw, re-installing module, etc. If you just wanted to quickly check something in the box (voltage, torque, whatever) it is no longer a quick and easy task. So the Canadian Electrical Code says in Section 0.Definitions Accessible (as applied to equipment) - admitting close approach because the equipment is not guarded by locked doors, elevation, or other effective means. Accessible (as applied to wiring methods) - (a) not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building; and(b) capable of being removed without disturbing the building structure or finish. My interpretation here is that; (a) the box is not 'permanently closed in', just inconveniently closed in. and,(b) you are not disturbing the structure or finish, as you will be replacing the module as soon as you are finished in the box. Many pieces of equipment and/or panels require that you remove a single piece or a multi-piece cover to access the wiring. The pv module is like a large 'cover' in this case. So i do not see this as a code violation. Do you? I'm not familiar with the NEC, is it's definition of 'accessible' similar to the CEC's? Is this combiner mounting location under the array common practice for some of you, or only done when roof space for a combiner box is limited? I am going to run this scenario by one of our inspectors, i just thought i'd get some feedback from other Wrenches first. cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Accessable?
Hey thanks for the feedback. Looks like the definition of accessible is pretty much the same for the CEC and NEC, and NEC's 690.34 gives this method the go-ahead. DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY > Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 12:28:49 -0400 > From: davecl...@fsec.ucf.edu > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Accessable? > > And more specifically: > 690.34 Access to Boxes. > Junction, pull, and outlet boxes located behind modules or panels shall > be so installed that the wiring contained in them can be rendered > accessible directly or by displacement of a module(s) or panel(s) > secured by removable fasteners and connected by a flexible wiring system. > > Andrew Truitt wrote: > > > > > > Benn - I like installing j-boxes under the array as a general rule both > > for aesthetics and to keep them somewhat sheltered from the elements. I > > do not see any code issues with the location because, as you mention, > > they are still accessible. > > > > > > From NEC2008 Article 100: > > > > *Accessible (as applied to equipment)*. Admitting close > > approach; not guarded by locked doors, elevation, or other > > effective means. > > > > *Accessible (as applied to wiring methods)*. Capable of > > being removed or exposed without damaging the building > > structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure > > or finish of the building. > > > > > > > > - Andrew > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 3:15 AM, benn kilburn > <mailto:b...@daystarsolar.ca>> wrote: > > > > Wrenches, > > There has been some mention on this list lately of locating Soladeck > > and/or other combiner boxes under arrays. This has me wondering if > > folks are doing this only for a cleaner looking roof array or if > > there are other reasonable intentions (lack of available roof space). > > > > Other than a cleaner look, i see no benefit to doing this. (don't > > get me wrong, a cleanly installed array is something to be proud of) > > However if the box ever needs to be accessed, you have to remove > > at least one module to get to it, dealing with the whole 'breaking > > the bond' issue; having to remove the module, replacing the WEEB > > clip or undoing and then re-torquing the lug set screw, > > re-installing module, etc. If you just wanted to quickly check > > something in the box (voltage, torque, whatever) it is no longer a > > quick and easy task. > > > > So the Canadian Electrical Code says in Section 0.Definitions > > > > _Accessible_ (as applied to equipment) - admitting close approach > > because the equipment is not guarded by locked doors, elevation, or > > other effective means. > > > > _Accessible_ (as applied to wiring methods) - > > (a) not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the > > building; and > > (b) capable of being removed without disturbing the > > building structure or finish. > > > > My interpretation here is that; > > (a) the box is not 'permanently closed in', just inconveniently > > closed in. and, > > (b) you are not disturbing the structure or finish, as you will be > > replacing the module as soon as you are finished in the box. > > > > Many pieces of equipment and/or panels require that you remove a > > single piece or a multi-piece cover to access the wiring. The pv > > module is like a large 'cover' in this case. So i do not see this as > > a code violation. Do you? > > > > I'm not familiar with the NEC, is it's definition of 'accessible' > > similar to the CEC's? > > > > Is this combiner mounting location under the array common practice > > for some of you, or only done when roof space for a combiner box is > > limited? > > > > I am going to run this scenario by one of our inspectors, i just > > thought i'd get some feedback from other Wrenches first. > > > > cheers, > > benn > > DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. > > b...@daystarsolar.ca <mailto:b...@daystarsolar.ca> > > 780-906-7807 > > HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] enphase D380
wrenches,so i'm lining up a few installations using the newer Enphase D380 TwinPack microinverter and i'm just looking for any feedback or "heads-up's" before getting started. i'm not foreseeing any issues, it is looking fairly straight forward like the M190's but nonetheless, if any of you have any comments, they would be appreciated. i'll provide some feedback of my own once i've done one or two of these systems. cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Solmetric PVA-600 PV Analyser
Wrenches, Have any of you had the opportunity to try out the Solmetric PVA-600 PV Analyser yet? http://www.solmetric.com/pva600.htmIt appears to be a very useful tool for system commissioning. We are looking at picking one up and are looking for some early feedback. What other tools/equipment have you found essential in evaluating PV system installation/commissioning/performance? thanks,bennDayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] lifting shingles
salute, i was inspecting a (~3yr old) 2/12 pitch roof for an upcoming install that was going to have flashed roof connection points and noticed that i could not lift up any of the shingles for installing the flashing. the sealing strip that holds the upper shingle to the one below it, is aggressively stubborn. i tried several in the area of the array location and they are all sealed down very well, much better than any other comp shingle i've come across, which typically lift and separate from the 'sticky strip' with a careful little tug on the shingle. all the ones i tried began to tear the back off the top shingle that i was trying to lift. i'm told these are a higher quality comp shingle and are well suited for low pitch roofs, they have a 35 yr warranty. i contacted the shingle mfg. tech support and after explaining what i was doing his suggestion was literally "try lifting them when its warm out then try when its cold out, see if that works." thanks tips! my first thought was to use a torch to heat and soften up the shingles' sealing strips that i needed to lift. i'm not surprised that the shingle tech did not endorse this method. i'm not thrilled about it either. just having a propane bottle and torch on the roof, risk of overheating (burning) the shingles, extra time to do this, are things i'd prefer to avoid. i'm sure if done carefully this method would work, but i'm a little more cautious than just trying it without asking around so i've been contacting a few roofers i've worked with, as well i'm wondering if any of you have come across this issue of having to lift particularly well-sealed comp shingles and how you have dealt with it. if the consensus is to stay away from the torch then i'm prepared to go with the good ol' l-feet on this one. cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] enphase D380
Great feedback Bruce, thanks.i was kinda foreseeing just what you are mentioning possibly being an issue.benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY From: mso...@mcn.org Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 15:26:57 -0700 To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] enphase D380 Hi Benn, No one else has tried the D380's?We just commissioned our first D380 system, and I can't say we're too impressed. Mainly, half of the cost savings from the doubles was eaten up by having to buy the trunk cables, and at least all the labor saved by mounting less inverters was eaten up by having to manage the bulky trunk cables. The less-than-optimal reality of array wire management is made more challenging by dealing with these big bulky things.I think we would use these if Enphase goes back to the daisy chain method of the single inverters, but until then, we'll probably stick with the singles. Bruce EricksonMendocino Solar ServicePO Box 1252Mendocino, CA 95460707-937-1701 On Sep 23, 2010, at 10:30 PM, benn kilburn wrote:wrenches,so i'm lining up a few installations using the newer Enphase D380 TwinPack microinverter and i'm just looking for any feedback or "heads-up's" before getting started. i'm not foreseeing any issues, it is looking fairly straight forward like the M190's but nonetheless, if any of you have any comments, they would be appreciated. i'll provide some feedback of my own once i've done one or two of these systems. cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] lifting shingles
hey guys, thanks for all the great feedback! good suggestions, much appreciated! these are a very robust comp shingle and are ok'd for as low as a 2:12 pitch. that 'self-sealing strip' activates in warm weather and basically seals these suckers down for good! matt, fyi, apparently UL tested these and after the self-sealing strip was set, subjected them to two hours of sustained 177 km/h wind with no damage. the mfg, Malarkey warrants them with a 161 km/h wind warranty.bill h, just so happens that these shingles are called 'the alaskan'. no doubt these are the ones your roofer installed and 'warned' you about.august, i've seen that product before, but haven't tried it yet. thanks for reminding me about it thou, as i may have a flat roof job where i could try it out. i'm quite confidant in my l-foot mounting method, so i have no issue going that route for this one. i'm just trying to use flashings more often, when possible. thanks again to all the feedback. by the way, who is bennett? ;) bennDayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY From: aug...@luminalt.com Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 16:01:52 -0700 To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] lifting shingles Hi Bennett/Bill - A 2:12 roof is 9.5 degrees. You might consider the ChemCurb product which I believe is good up to about 10 degrees: http://www.chemlinkinc.com/docs/brochure/chemcurb_v5p4.pdf We use these all the time and I feel that they provide a very robust seal. I've never used them on comp shingles but I imagine that you could use a little extra M-1 to glue them down to assure that the self-leveling one part sealant doesn't leak out between the shingle layers. -August August Goers Luminalt Energy Corporation 1320 Potrero Avenue San Francisco, CA 94110 m: 415.559.1525 o: 415.641.4000 aug...@luminalt.com From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill Hoffer Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 10:30 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] lifting shingles Bennett I have a roof similar to the one you described. It was designed for coastal regions of Alaska, heat-freeze cycling and high winds. Roofer warned me that I better plan my penetrations because after season in the sun I would never be able to lift the shingle again! That being said have you tried a hot knife? L feet seem like the way to go! Good luck! Bill On Oct 7, 2010 2:05 AM, "benn kilburn" wrote: > > salute, i was inspecting a (~3yr old) 2/12 pitch roof for an upcoming install that was going to have flashed roof connection points and noticed that i could not lift up any of the shingles for installing the flashing. the sealing strip that holds the upper shingle to the one below it, is aggressively stubborn. i tried several in the area of the array location and they are all sealed down very well, much better than any other comp shingle i've come across, which typically lift and separate from the 'sticky strip' with a careful little tug on the shingle. all the ones i tried began to tear the back off the top shingle that i was trying to lift. i'm told these are a higher quality comp shingle and are well suited for low pitch roofs, they have a 35 yr warranty. > i contacted the shingle mfg. tech support and after explaining what i was doing his suggestion was literally "try lifting them when its warm out then try when its cold out, see if that works." thanks tips! > my first thought was to use a torch to heat and soften up the shingles' sealing strips that i needed to lift. i'm not surprised that the shingle tech did not endorse this method. i'm not thrilled about it either. just having a propane bottle and torch on the roof, risk of overheating (burning) the shingles, extra time to do this, are things i'd prefer to avoid. > i'm sure if done carefully this method would work, but i'm a little more cautious than just trying it without asking around so i've been contacting a few roofers i've worked with, as well i'm wondering if any of you have come across this issue of having to lift particularly well-sealed comp shingles and how you have dealt with it. > if the consensus is to stay away from the torch then i'm prepared to go with the good ol' l-feet on this one. > cheers,benn > DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY > > > > > > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wren
Re: [RE-wrenches] Power line shading
Hey Eric,This was discussed somewhat back in early Sept under the subject line "Wiley Assett". This topic, with some great insight, should have been discussed under its' own subject line but My bad! benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 12:28:33 -0700 From: solarepiph...@gmail.com To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Power line shading Hey there, We have a string inverter system installation coming up that has a power line suspended over the roof. The line is diagonal to the roof and about 20' above the surface. It will be very challenging to configure the strings to mitigate shading. Does anyone have experience with the effects on producion from the thin shadow cast by the powerline? Thanks Eric Thomas Solar Epiphany LLC Seattle (206)919-3014 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] What is a solar installer...?
Wrenches,a colleague of mine is looking for feedback to the following email he received regarding PV installers and electrical work. I have responded to him, however, I am quite interested to hear this list's response LETTER--'Colleague' - next week Alberta’s “major municipalities” electrical chief inspectors are getting together to talk about issues. One item I have asked to put on the agenda is qualifications of solar installers. I hope to see a start on forming some type of agreement on is who is qualified to do what work on a solar installation and what is considered electrical work that only electricians can perform. There seems to be courses popping up all over to teach everyman to be a solar installer, but what work is clearly reserved for electricians to do? The Safety Codes Act speaks to Electrical Systems, CE (Canadian Electrical) Code defines electrical installation and electrical equipment. What I hope we accomplish is a stance we can take to the EIAA (Electrical Inspectors Association of Alberta) conference then to Apprenticeship and Industry Training who ultimately enforces who does work in the trade. To me the PV module racking can be done by anyone, but almost all of the rest of the installation – from wire pulling to interconnecting modules, mounting of the inverters etc falls clearly into the scope of practice for electricians. One of the bigger players in the industry is saying “its now getting to be all plug and play” and anyone can be an installer. Hoping an agreement like this can make it a level playing field and consistent across the Province. What are your thoughts? BACK TO MEmy thoughts are similar to the ones above, that the racking alone can be installed by any 'properly trained' person. However pretty much every other aspect of a PV install directly falls under the scope of an electrician and needs to be preformed by a journeyman or apprentice under the supervision of a journeyman electrician. the following paragraph is from recent past EIAA technical conference minutes. "Alberta Municipal Affairs (AMA) was asked (earlier in 2009 by a Municipality) for an opinion on the Permit Regulation regarding Homeowner Permits. The Permit Regulation states a homeowner may be issued a permit where the electrical system serves that dwelling. A photovoltaic system that is tied to the grid (utility interactive) serves other than that dwelling. The response back from AMA confirmed utility interactive PV systems do serve other than the dwelling and as such permit issuers should not be issuing homeowner permits for utility interactive PV systems." My thinking is that this would include the addition of 'plug and play' modules/inverters to an existing system as well ...any comments on this one? cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] FW: What is a solar installer...?
ar contractors, only a few actually passed the exam, even though they had passed the FL solar contractors exam, in some areas of the country the NABCEP pass rate is closer to 50%. At the end of the day what we all want is a safe, reliable (with customer expectations met), code compliant installation that does not pose a life-safety issue at some point down the road (25 - 40 years). Minimal experience requirements may allow more individuals to become licensed and own their own shop installing solar electric systems, but that is not in the best interest of the grid tied solar electrical industry IMHO as we go forward. Concerning homeowners pulling owner/builder permits for plug and play solar electric, I think it is a bad idea from a life-safety perspective and I don't believe that the NEC code making panel will allow plug and play into existing branch circuits any time soon (the homeowner installed route), existing branch circuits are rated for loads only and are not rated for both power generation and loads at the same time, this is no different than a homeowner plugging a generator into an existing branch circuit designed for loads, neither are allowed in FL. The plug and play connected to an existing branch circuit route appears to be more likely targeted to the unlicensed inexperienced handyman who can't pull a permit for solar electric. Going back to the nest now! Jamie Johnson NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #031310-118 General Manager SOLAR POWER ELECTRIC EC13001765 (941)380-0098 Original Message Subject: [RE-wrenches] What is a solar installer...? From: benn kilburn Date: Thu, October 14, 2010 4:11 pm To: Wrenches Wrenches, a colleague of mine is looking for feedback to the following email he received regarding PV installers and electrical work. I have responded to him, however, I am quite interested to hear this list's response LETTER-- 'Colleague' - next week Alberta’s “major municipalities” electrical chief inspectors are getting together to talk about issues. One item I have asked to put on the agenda is qualifications of solar installers. I hope to see a start on forming some type of agreement on is who is qualified to do what work on a solar installation and what is considered electrical work that only electricians can perform. There seems to be courses popping up all over to teach everyman to be a solar installer, but what work is clearly reserved for electricians to do? The Safety Codes Act speaks to Electrical Systems, CE (Canadian Electrical) Code defines electrical installation and electrical equipment. What I hope we accomplish is a stance we can take to the EIAA (Electrical Inspectors Association of Alberta) conference then to Apprenticeship and Industry Training who ultimately enforces who does work in the trade. To me the PV module racking can be done by anyone, but almost all of the rest of the installation – from wire pulling to interconnecting modules, mounting of the inverters etc falls clearly into the scope of practice for electricians. One of the bigger players in the industry is saying “its now getting to be all plug and play” and anyone can be an installer. Hoping an agreement like this can make it a level playing field and consistent across the Province. What are your thoughts? BACK TO ME my thoughts are similar to the ones above, that the racking alone can be installed by any 'properly trained' person. However pretty much every other aspect of a PV install directly falls under the scope of an electrician and needs to be preformed by a journeyman or apprentice under the supervision of a journeyman electrician. the following paragraph is from recent past EIAA technical conference minutes. "Alberta Municipal Affairs (AMA) was asked (earlier in 2009 by a Municipality) for an opinion on the Permit Regulation regarding Homeowner Permits. The Permit Regulation states a homeowner may be issued a permit where the electrical system serves that dwelling. A photovoltaic system that is tied to the grid (utility interactive) serves other than that dwelling. The response back from AMA confirmed utility interactive PV systems do serve other than the dwelling and as such permit issuers should not be issuing homeowner permits for utility interactive PV systems." My thinking is that this would include the addition of 'plug and play' modules/inverters to an existing system as well ...any comments on this one? cheers, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re
Re: [RE-wrenches] AC voltage in North America
Darryl,thank you for that! i've often wondered myself where the 110/220 and other random voltages mentioned from time to time came from (as opposed to 120/240 which is all i've worked with in my electrical career). i've often assumed that the other numbers were grandfathered in from other systems, but was never really sure. If the change to 120/240 was in the 60's then why do some appliances still reference 110-115V? i'm impressed, it must have been something working your electrical career thru, among other things, the change from DC utility systems to AC systems benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:49:26 -0700 From: daryl_so...@yahoo.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AC voltage in North America Thanks Joel When I first started working most of the city was DC and we had a lot of work tearing out DC motors and putting in AC motors. --- On Tue, 10/19/10, Joel Davidson wrote: From: Joel Davidson Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AC voltage in North America To: "RE-wrenches" Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 11:24 AM Hello Darryl, I tip my hat in honor to your many years working with electricity. 110 volts was Edison's choice for direct current. Then Tesla/Westinghouse chose higher voltage alternating current stepped down to 120 volts. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Currents 115-volt AC/DC universal motors in drills and other tools were fairly common until low-cost induction motors became widespread. Best regards, Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Darryl Thayer To: RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AC voltage in North America When I was an electrical apprentus back in the late 40's we called it 110/220 then in the fifties the voltage was reised to 115/230 and some time in the 1960 it was raised to 120 240 Darryl --- On Mon, 10/18/10, Marco Mangelsdorf wrote: From: Marco Mangelsdorf Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC voltage in North America To: "'RE-wrenches'" Date: Monday, October 18, 2010, 8:27 PM I just don’t understand it. Lots of people—from reporters to homeowners—consistently refer to the AC voltage in their homes as “110/220.” Where does this come from? If North American utilities were putting out power at that voltage range, they would be in serious trouble. Anyone able to educate me on this matter? marco -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Mounting Enphase when using S-5-PV Clamps
Mornin, I'm looking at mounting an Enphase M190 system on a standing seam metal roof and was considering using the S-5-PV clamps (as opposed to just the S-5's and L-feet), which do not use any mounting rails. No rails means no where to properly mount the M190's!?!It was suggested to mount the M190's to each module frame using a fashioned L-bracket, makes sense, but this would require drilling holes in the module frame, and wouldn't that void the module warranty? Also, am i the only one who is wondering if hanging a 4.4 pound inverter off of the module frame will potentially cause some sagging/deformation of the frame over the life of the system? Is this how those "andalay" modules support their inverters? thanks,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Mounting Enphase when using S-5-PV Clamps
Bill,I was pretty sure that the inverter-mounted-to-the-mod method wouldn't fly. Thanks for your points, noted and very much appreciated! benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY From: billbroo...@yahoo.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 08:39:13 -0700 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mounting Enphase when using S-5-PV Clamps Benn, If it were me, I would mount rails on the S-5! Clamps so that you can mount the micro-inverters on the rails. It is not good to mount the inverters on the module frames. Although some modules may be able to physically handle it, as you noted, you will probably void the warranty. The weight tests for ac modules are substantial and a typical module has not been evaluated for that dead load weight test. Put the inverters on the rails they were designed for or use a string inverter. Bill. From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of benn kilburn Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 8:07 AM To: Wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mounting Enphase when using S-5-PV Clamps Mornin, I'm looking at mounting an Enphase M190 system on a standing seam metal roof and was considering using the S-5-PV clamps (as opposed to just the S-5's and L-feet), which do not use any mounting rails. No rails means no where to properly mount the M190's!?! It was suggested to mount the M190's to each module frame using a fashioned L-bracket, makes sense, but this would require drilling holes in the module frame, and wouldn't that void the module warranty? Also, am i the only one who is wondering if hanging a 4.4 pound inverter off of the module frame will potentially cause some sagging/deformation of the frame over the life of the system? Is this how those "andalay" modules support their inverters? thanks, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Mounting Enphase when using S-5-PV Clamps
Not a lot of you guys in the field today 'eh? I was just checking a spec on my laptop and noticed i had a wireless signal and a mailbox full of great feedback, thanks again everyone!!! I'll go over all the details from everyone a little more when i'm done on site for the day. For a few of you i just wanted to show you this link to the S-5-PV clamp, which is different from just the S-5! clamp > Click here to learn more. < The S-5-PV does not need rails, the mod frames sit on the 'mounting disc' which can accommodate one or two modules. BUT, with the Enphase system, this leave no where to mount the inverters. Bill made a good point; save this mounting method for string inverter systems. We are now planning this project using just the S-5 clamp/L-foot/rail system. No problems. Back at 'er! benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 12:34:56 -0600 From: al...@positiveenergysolar.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mounting Enphase when using S-5-PV Clamps We have used these for years. They work better than wire ties, but the rubber liner deteriorates over time, so install them as if there is no rubber protection on the loom clamp. Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 10/20/2010 11:53 AM, jay peltz wrote: If this helps, I just installed a system and used 3 different size loop clamps ( del city) which worked really well. I used 3/8" for single wires, 3/4 for 2 wires and 1" for 3 and also for the connector, worked really well, made it all very clean. I attached them with SS tek screws into the rails. jay peltz power On Oct 20, 2010, at 9:40 AM, Mark Dickson wrote: Just finished one. . . Direct Power recommended drilling and bolting directly to the aluminum rails--easy and solid. Although, I was not happy about all the wire management that went into it though. Sure would be nice if somebody came along and made some integrated wire raceways!!! It was amazing how many blank stares I got from racking manus at SPI, when I asked them if they had any in the works. Most just kept pointing to their wire clips and pretended not to know about the NEC requirements. Best regards, Mark Dickson, NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ™ Oasis Montana Inc. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] The perfect solar ready roof
chris,don't forget to make sure that the existing roof structure is engineered to support the added weight of the extra layer of plywood, as well as the racking/modules. benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY > From: ch...@oasismontana.com > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:29:33 -0600 > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] The perfect solar ready roof > > Hi Dick: > > Nope, not just high wind area, but the site gets a real bashing of hail at > least once every 3 to 4 years (like quarter sized hail at 60 - 80 mph) -- so > I will pass on the plasticky amorphous stuff, thank you, although yes, they > do look nice (til they get those whitish translucent spots from hail). > There's room for about a 5.5KW array of some decent modules (read: Sanyos or > some other high efficient modules). I just think we need another layer of > roofing material; we'll need 16 sheets of some kinda plywood. I am leaning > more and more in that direction. > > But I really do appreciate all your thoughts! And by the way, right NOW, > sunny day time temps are near 70. Nights are a chilly 35. > > Chris Daum > Oasis Montana Inc. > 406-777-4309 > 406-777-0830 fax > > -Original Message- > From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Richard L > Ratico > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 6:59 PM > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] The perfect solar ready roof > > Chris, > > You've probably already considered and rejected this... Unisolar PVL modules > on standing seam roofing. Solves the structure & wind problems. Goes fast if > installed on the pans before they go on the roof. Price is pretty good per > watt now. > Can't beat the look. Made in USA. I think the only downside is you may not > have enough area to place 5kW. > > I bet it's getting cold in Montana. You could stick the modules on the pans > in a heated space somewhere. This would really cut down your time and > exposure on the roof. > > Dick Ratico > Solarwind Electric > > > > --- You wrote: > Dear Wrenches > have a composite (shingle) roof at hand, and the owner wants to upgrade it > to a metal roof and install a 5kw+ array on it. The rafters are those > (sort of) particle board I-beams covered with 1/2" plywood (and shingles). > What's the best metal roofing you could suggest--and would you beef up the > wood to lag into? > Thanks for all your input. > Chris Daum > Oasis Montana Inc. > 406-777-4309 > 406-777-0830 fax > --- end of quote --- > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] The perfect solar ready roof
andrew,a few comments added to your last email... You Wrote If you ask me this is a dream scenario. The scary thing about S-5!s is that you rarely know how often the roofing panels are attached to the decking and how well the decking is attached to the framing. i'm not overly familiar with standing seam metal roofs (and i know they are not all created equal) but aren't the screws holding the metal roof panel to the decking visible at the bottom, at the top under the vent cap and anywhere along the length of said panel? i agree about the 'unknown' attachments btwn the decking and the framing In this case you can direct the roofer to fasten the roof as often as you want. I had a PE do an analysis for a sure-fire acceptable attachment method for a standing seam roof given: 90 mph wind zone, 18" wide standing seam roofing panels, flush-mounted PV array (modules to rail to S-5!s, no tilt legs), and his result was that if the roofing panels are fastened every 4" along each seam you are in the clear. No doubt, that seems like quite a few fasteners. He did not address the decking-to-framing attachment, So worst case scenario, you get a 90+ mph wind that takes the array, the metal roof and the decking for a ride to the ground, (HAS ANYONE SEEN OR HAD THIS HAPPEN?) when it is determined that the decking wasn't properly attached to the framing, who do ya call? PV installer, PE who stamped it, roofer? I'm not looking for a place to point fingers, I'm just looking for some insight on this so i understand our responsibilities a bit better. I realize that it would be onerous to confirm the number and placement of decking to framing attachments) but while the roof is off you could add as many fasteners as you want. If the structure of the roof is in question I would definitely have a PE look at it and stamp the plans before proceeding, but once you have everything under the roof robust and approved, you are primed and ready for a worry-free, penetration-free S-5!-to-standing-seam array install.In another email string someone mentioned issues with S-5!s slipping down the roof due to snow which is why I recommend attaching at every seam and breaking out that torque-wrench when installing. Good luck!...end of your msg in response to Kris' suggestion, don't the 2x6's need to be toe-nailed into the 'rafters' on either side? or in this case toe-nailed into the beams? which probably wouldn't be much different than the 'inadvisable' lag bolting into them. cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY From: atru...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:30:40 -0600 To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] The perfect solar ready roof If you ask me this is a dream scenario. The scary thing about S-5!s is that you rarely know how often the roofing panels are attached to the decking and how well the decking is attached to the framing. In this case you can direct the roofer to fasten the roof as often as you want. I had a PE do an analysis for a sure-fire acceptable attachment method for a standing seam roof given: 90 mph wind zone, 18" wide standing seam roofing panels, flush-mounted PV array (modules to rail to S-5!s, no tilt legs), and his result was that if the roofing panels are fastened every 4" along each seam you are in the clear. He did not address the decking-to-framing attachment, but while the roof is off you could add as many fasteners as you want. If the structure of the roof is in question I would definitely have a PE look at it and stamp the plans before proceeding, but once you have everything under the roof robust and approved, you are primed and ready for a worry-free, penetration-free S-5!-to-standing-seam array install. In another email string someone mentioned issues with S-5!s slipping down the roof due to snow which is why I recommend attaching at every seam and breaking out that torque-wrench when installing. Good luck! Andrew Truitt NABCEP Certified PV Installer™ (ID# 032407-66) Truitt Renewable Energy Consulting (202) 486-7507 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andrew-truitt/8/622/713 "Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it's wireless!" ~William McDonough On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Kristopher Schmid wrote: What about screwing in double 2x6s flush to the roof deck between the beams where your feet will attach and lag bolting into that? Definitely check with the beam manufacturer first, though. Kris Legacy Solar 864 Clam Falls Trail Frederic, WI 54837 715-653-4295 sol...@legacysolar.com www.legacysolar.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenche
Re: [RE-wrenches] Protection against birds
Lee, I haven't had to use any of these bird repellent products, yet, but researching the issue in the past, i came across these Products (< link) I hope you find something useful.I also hear that an owl decoy strategically placed will deter birds from hanging around as well. Although an owl sitting around may attract the odd murder of crows looking for mischief.benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY > Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 16:45:16 -0400 > From: leebris...@standardsolar.com > To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Protection against birds > > Hi Wrenches, > > My prospect has an existing problem with birds (black birds, pigeons, > and sparrows) nesting on their roof in every available nook and > cranny. They are concerned about the birds soiling the modules. I > have suggested putting a wire mesh around the array so that the birds > can't get under the array and build nests. I am concerned about the > nests that will be built along the top of the array on the wire mesh > that I have so conveniently located for them. If there are too many > nests then the air flow up and under the array could be compromised. > > Any thoughts? Possibly spikes along the top of array to discourage > landing, pictures of cats, or warning signs - Birds-High Voltage go > further South > > Thanks! > > Lee > -- > Lee Bristol > NABCEP Certified Solar Designer/Installer > > Co-Founder & Commercial Channel Manager > Standard Solar, Inc. > 1355 Piccard Drive, #300 > Rockville, MD 20850 > (301) 944-5105 > (240) 479-1510 (c) > www.standardsolar.com > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Expected Life of DR2424
G'day, I am re-locating a PV array and doing some system upgrades for a circa 2003 off-grid system that is using a Trace DR2424 (mfg 1stQ-2003). Just wondering what the expected lifespan of this model would be. I want to let the owner know how much longer they should reasonably expect this inverter/charger to preform before needing to replace it. Judging from some past comments on this list, repair isn't much of an option. thanks,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Expected Life of DR2424
Everyone, Thanks for the feedback. Allan kinda nailed it with his first comment about the catch-22. A few stand-out factors aside, i guess it could fail tomorrow or in 30 years. The DR2424 is installed in a clean, dry, open area, although I never thought to ask if it was used in the construction of the round straw bale home. It is possible. Can a poorly wired PV array (loose connections) have an effect on the inverter? This will be fixed when we move the array to a pole mount. benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Strawbale wall penetration
Wrenches, Short of contacting the builder, i'm looking for your experiences, practices and "look-out's" for penetrating a strawbale exterior wall with conduit. For the project in question there is currently a teck cable from a wind gen entering the home by sharing a HRV vent opening that i want to fix (not my original system by the way) and i will also be adding another penetration for a PV array that i am relocating on the property. The original penetration for the PV was done properly but its not in an ideal location for the re-located array wiring. I'm wondering if it is as simple as using a hole saw extension to go thru the ~16" wall and use an LB/box on either side. I'm sure there is some framework and/or rebar supporting the bales, how do you locate/avoid these when there are no corners to measure from? (it is a round home) Any knowledge if PVC or EMT will react in anyway with the bales? I'm thinking that PVC would be best? ... i am trying to contact the builder to address this, and also to ask a few choice questions regarding the wiring methods (he?) used in the original PV system set-up. Cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Strawbale wall penetration
Guys,Great stuff. These are just the kinds of things i was wanting to look out for. I already have a 16 or 18" mason bellhanger bit, although it likely will not be long enuf, unless i use it with my 16" bit extension which can be use with drill bits or hole saws. I've only been out to the site once so far and neglected to figure out the wall thickness, but that wont be hard, i'll either check at a doorway or at the vent that i'll be pulling that existing teck cable out of. i'll try out the rebar suggestion and make sure i have my carbide hole-saws as well. Glenn, good call regarding the possibility of "required" metallic conduit on the DC run. I'll check what Canadian Electrical Code rule covers this. Phil, even thou i'll likely use my mason bits to start the holes in the plaster/stucco, do you grind down the business end of the rebar in a particular fashion to get a "cutting" edge on it. I"m thinking either similar to a flat screwdriver (which might skid around a bit starting off) or a straight-across cut end with an "X" or "*" cut into the end. And how many chucks did you go thru before you decided to flatten the drill end of the rebar? Have a great weekend everyone! benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY From: glenn.b...@glbcc.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 15:26:40 -0500 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Strawbale wall penetration Would the walls of the bale house be considered part of the dwelling and require careful consideration of whether metallic conduit is REQUIRED on the DC run? 690.31 (E) -Glenn Burt From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of benn kilburn Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 2:06 PM To: Wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Strawbale wall penetration Wrenches, Short of contacting the builder, i'm looking for your experiences, practices and "look-out's" for penetrating a strawbale exterior wall with conduit. For the project in question there is currently a teck cable from a wind gen entering the home by sharing a HRV vent opening that i want to fix (not my original system by the way) and i will also be adding another penetration for a PV array that i am relocating on the property. The original penetration for the PV was done properly but its not in an ideal location for the re-located array wiring. I'm wondering if it is as simple as using a hole saw extension to go thru the ~16" wall and use an LB/box on either side. I'm sure there is some framework and/or rebar supporting the bales, how do you locate/avoid these when there are no corners to measure from? (it is a round home) Any knowledge if PVC or EMT will react in anyway with the bales? I'm thinking that PVC would be best? ... i am trying to contact the builder to address this, and also to ask a few choice questions regarding the wiring methods (he?) used in the original PV system set-up. Cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] GE warranty
Do any of you have current contact info for anyone at GE Energy in regards to a module warranty issue? thanks,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] GE warranty
Thanks for that Phil. benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 18:23:55 -0500 From: p...@pennsun.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] GE warranty Motech Americas LLC 231 Lake Drive Newark, DE 19702, U.S.A. +1 (302) 451-7500 Phil Theis PennSun Solar On 12/30/2010 5:51 PM, benn kilburn wrote: Do any of you have current contact info for anyone at GE Energy in regards to a module warranty issue? thanks, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3348 - Release Date: 12/30/10 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Reference PV System / snow removal
Rob, Its great to see that the city is looking to come up with some local production 'standards' for PV system owners to gauge their own system production. To answer your direct questions... no, i'm not familiar with other PV reference systems, but i'll be on the look-out and i haven't installed an additional output monitor on any Enphase systems yet, so i can't comment on the Envoy's accuracy. I have suggested this to a few clients, but no takers, yet. For each micro-inverter branch circuit, i'd second the suggestion of having the circuit's output monitored by dedicated "utility grade kWh meter" to compare to the micro-inverter data against. Snow build-up/removal ... In and around the Edmonton area, i've seen snow stick and stay on array's tilted up to 70deg. A very sunny and not too cold day will certainly help the melt-off process, but typically a bit of help (quick sweep, if accessible and safe) is necessary if any reasonable amount of energy production is expected for the day. The reason for this being that for our 4 coldest winter months (nov-feb) the avg temp is about -10 deg C and we are lucky if we get 2-2.5 decent hours of sun each clear day (clear days are few and far between). If snow build-up is not swept off the array asap, what typically happens is the sun (when it does comes out) will start melting the snow and before it has cleared off the modules, the sun is gone, it gets colder (quite quickly) and the melted snow then freezes into ice, which takes even longer to melt off on its own or remove manually. I have equipped some of my clients with telescopic snow brushes, and recommend clearing the snow as soon as possible after a snow fall. This is only recommended if the roof is easily accessible and it is safe to do so. I do not recommend to my clients to get up on their roofs or ladders to do this. The above comments are generally for flush-mounted roof arrays. For angled, tilt-able and pole mounted arrays i suggest/design for up to 70 deg tilt for a winter angle and at least 3 feet from the bottom of the array to the ground when at this angle to allow for the snow to pile up. I would think that before too much effort is put into designing an automated snow removal system that what needs to be looked at is...-given our short sun-hr days (and energy production) during the snow season, how much potential energy loss can be calculated for the "array snow-covered" days and what the cost of this potential energy production would be. ... when figuring this out, remember that not all "array snow-cover days" are "energy production loss days" because the sun won't be out every day that the array is snow-covered. .. actually just got off the phone with a local client with an array on a 45 deg roof and he agreed 100% with what i said above about the days not being long/sunny enuf to clear the snow with out some help. he can reach his array with a long roof rake and he notices that there is ice build-up on the lower part of the array if the sun was out the day before and it (or he) didn't clear all the snow off the modules beforehand. He also suggested a "heated" snow removal system, fair suggestion, i've heard it many many times, these are just not feasible IMO.. back to what i was sayingwe need to figure out the cost of the "energy production loss" so that we have this in mind when designing a snow removal system. Otherwise we will have a (hundreds of) dollars snow removal system that helps produce $5-10 of energy a year. I believe that to be feasible, any snow removal system would have to be manual. (gasp!)It may just be that for an array that is not accessible or unsafe to reach, that is is best to just wait till the snow melts off on its own. I hope to read some other great feed back on this, especially answering Rob's questions on ...Anybody familiar with PV reference systems developed by other municipalities? Have they been successful?Have you found the Enphase Envoy to be consistently accurate? Well, its snowing out. I've got to go do some shoveling benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 23:24:30 -0700 From: mendo...@mcn.org To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Reference PV System Message body I am working with the City of Edmonton, Alberta to develop a reference system. The intent is to provide accurate data for owners of systems within the city limits to use to verify their system performance. It is seen as a great way to insure quality installations under their municipal grant program, as well as a way to provide some real life performance data for system sizing and installation recommendations. The City is considering tying the dispersal of system grants to verified performance. (We are hoping to eventually have a municipal performanced-based FIT, but until then...) At th
Re: [RE-wrenches] WD-40 was cleaning modules
Although there are several uses listed here that i will vouch for, i can always remember having a can or two around the place, i'm pretty sure that the "PS" at the bottom of the list is not correct. The msds states the main (basic?) ingredients as petroleum based. WD-40 Aerosol benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY From: starpowe...@juno.com Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 19:59:15 + To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] WD-40 was cleaning modules I just came across this today, maybe worth a try on those modules as well as all of these uses, many I had no idea of. I've always considered WD-40 about as useless as Thompson's Water Seal, who'd of thunk it?! - WD-40 uses: 1.Protects silver from tarnishing. 2. Removes road tar and grime from cars. 3. Cleans and lubricates guitar strings. 4.Gives floors that 'just-waxed' sheen without making them slippery. 5. Keeps flies off cows. 6. Restores and cleans chalkboards. 7. Removes lipstick stains. 8. Loosens stubborn zippers. 9. Untangles jewelry chains. 10. Removes stains from stainless steel sinks. 11.Removes dirt and grime from the barbecue grill. 12. Keeps ceramic/terra cotta garden pots from oxidizing. 13.Removes tomato stains from clothing. 14. Keeps glass shower doors free of water spots. 15.Camouflages scratches in ceramic and marble floors. 16. Keeps scissors working smoothly. 17.Lubricates noisy door hinges on vehicles and doors in homes. 18. It removes black scuff marks from the kitchen floor! Use WD-40 for those nasty tar and scuff marks on flooring. It doesn't seem to harm the finish and you won't have to scrub nearly as hard to get them off. Just remember to open some windows if you have a lot of marks. 19. Bug guts will eat away the finish on your car if not removed quickly!Use WD-40! 20. Gives a children's playground gym slide a shine for a super fast slide. 21. Lubricates gear shift and mower deck lever for ease of handling on riding mowers... 22. Rids kids rocking chairs and swings of squeaky noises. 23.Lubricates tracks in sticking home windows and makes them easier to open.. 24. Spraying an umbrella stem makes it easier to open and close. 25. Restores and cleans padded leather dashboards in vehicles, as well as vinyl bumpers. 26. Restores and cleans roof racks on vehicles. 27.Lubricates and stops squeaks in electric fans 28. Lubricates wheel sprockets on tricycles, wagons, and bicycles for easy handling. 29. Lubricates fan belts on washers and dryers and keeps them running smoothly. 30. Keeps rust from forming on saws and saw blades, and other tools. 31.Removes splattered grease on stove. 32. Keeps bathroom mirror from fogging. 33. Lubricates prosthetic limbs. 34. Keeps pigeons off the balcony (they hate the smell). 35. Removes all traces of duct tape. 36. Folks even spray it on their arms, hands, and knees to relieve arthritis pain. 37.Florida€™s favorite use is: 'cleans and removes love bugs from grills and bumpers.' 38.The favorite use in the state of New York, WD-40 protects the Statue of Liberty from the elements. 39. WD-40 attracts fish. Spray a little on live bait or lures and you will be catching the big one in no time. Also, it's a lot cheaper than the chemical attractants that are made for just that purpose. Keep in mind though, using some chemical laced baits or lures for fishing are not allowed in some states. 40.Use it for fire ant bites. It takes the sting away immediately and stops the itch. 41.WD-40 is great for removing crayon from walls. Spray on the mark and wipe with a clean rag. 42.Also, if you've discovered that your teenage daughter has washed and dried a tube of lipstick with a load of laundry, saturate the lipstick spots with WD-40 and rewash. Presto! The lipstick is gone! 43.If you sprayed WD-40 on the distributor cap, it would displace the moisture and allow the car to start. P.S. The basic ingredient is FISH OIL!! >From the Solar, Wind and Hydro powered office of Jeff Oldham/Regenerative >SOLutions Go Back to School Grant Funding May Be Available to Those Who Qualify SeeCollegeDegrees.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out parti
Re: [RE-wrenches] Incompatible Metals
Peter,i've been having the same concern running thru my head recently, as i've done this myself, and have compensated by now using a green jacketed bond (ground) wire for rail and module bonding. (fyi-bonding is the CEC term for inter-connecting all metallic parts of an electrical system, i.e. frames, rails)I just strip the jacket at the lugs and use nolox on all connections. I have not yet seen any issues with corrosion when bare copper has been supported against aluminum (frames or rails), but i am watching for it. I am also curious if anyone else has encountered this and,-to what extent (i've seen mod frame/lug 'reduced to white powder' photos, but what about rail damage?-age of install when corrosion was first noticed Question(s): What triggers galvanic corrosion to take place? ...is it unavoidable if there are dissimilar metals in contact?Does there need to be current leaking thru the dissimilar metals (connection points) for the reaction to start? benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY > From: peter.parr...@calsolareng.com > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 07:36:22 -0800 > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Incompatible Metals > > One of my students who is currently responsible for standing for inspection > at their company encountered a inspector who made an interesting point about > incompatible metals (i.e. copper and anodized aluminum). > > The PV system in question used outdoor rated lay-in lugs to bond the rails > to bare copper wire (so far so good). The ground wire was then zip-tied to > the rail to carry it to the point where it entered a junction box along with > the rest of the PV conductors. > > The inspector was concerned with the fact that the bare copper was in > contact with the aluminum rails and that this might cause galvanic corrosion > and subsequent failure of the grounding. > > I have never encountered this issue before and I wonder if anyone else has > and what was the outcome. > > As an aside: I do know that 10 AWG and 12 AWG solid bare copper wire can be > purchased "pre-tinned" (maybe not tin per se, but coated). We did so by > mistake. We used it up, but not before one inspector questioned its use for > the purpose of grounding our system. We showed him the UL label on the spool > and scraped off the coating to expose the copper core and that satisfied > him. To this day I don't know if the use of this wire for grounding was > among its intended purposes. > > - Peter > > Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President > California Solar Engineering, Inc. > 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 > CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 > peter.parr...@calsolareng.com > Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fluke meter recall
wow, that was from back in May of 2009. I bought mine about 6-8 months ago, a 337, that is in fact affected by this recall. You'd a thunk it would/should have been pulled off the shelf.can't say that i noticed any voltage discrepancies, but then again, its not like i always test a circuit with two meters. i do notice that the current reading won't always zero out. just setting the dial to "A" (ac or dc) and it will fluctuate between 0.1A and 0.5A. anyone else notice this? Very much appreciate the heads up Glenn. benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY From: glenn.b...@glbcc.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 11:57:44 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fluke meter recall FYI recall on a few popular Fluke clamp-on DMMs: http://www.fluke.com/Fluke/usen/support/safety/33X-Recall.htm -Glenn Burt ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] module / panel
Wrenchers, Which term do you to describe a single framed unit with either a j-box or two wire leads on the back, module or panel? Which term do you believe to be correct and why? My interpretation is that a single framed unit is a module. Any number of modules attached to a single detached 'rack' is a panel, and a group of panels with the same orientation or mounting location/type is an array. If you agree with my interpretation, what are your thoughts on the widespread use of the term 'panel' to describe a module. thanks,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] module / panel
Dave, thanks for the reply.What are your thoughts when you see (in various publications and/or websites) solar PV distributers and even "module" manufacturers using the term 'panel' to describe a 'module'? benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:02:32 -0600 From: david.brear...@solarprofessional.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] module / panel Message body People in and out of the industry misuse the term PV panel all the time. The NEC is pretty clear that the basic building block for a PV system is a module, the complete unit. Assemble some of these together & now you have a panel. (This is less common now that we have 250 watt modules and not 50 watt modules.) An array is defined in the NEC as a mechanically integrated unit; I tend to think of an array as all of the modules on site. They added a definition for a subarray in the 2011 NEC; this is an electrical subset of an array. On 2/8/11 4:49 PM, "benn kilburn" wrote: Wrenchers, Which term do you to describe a single framed unit with either a j-box or two wire leads on the back, module or panel? Which term do you believe to be correct and why? My interpretation is that a single framed unit is a module. Any number of modules attached to a single detached 'rack' is a panel, and a group of panels with the same orientation or mounting location/type is an array. If you agree with my interpretation, what are your thoughts on the widespread use of the term 'panel' to describe a module. thanks, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installer ™ david.brear...@solarprofessional.com Direct: 541.261.6545 Fax: 541.512.0343 Visit our Web site at solarprofessional.com (Sample copy available for download at: solarprofessional.com/sample) ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Metal Roof Attachment
Jason,In my experience with a roof like that there were purlins running horizontal to the trusses, so spacing L-feet to miss the ribs was not an issue. Unless you have visually confirmed the truss location it might be worth a more detailed look to see if there are purlins you can attach to. This might be an option for waterproofing the penetrations... EternaBond DoubleStick benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY From: j...@asis.com Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 14:34:11 -0700 To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Metal Roof Attachment HI Jason, I would use the direct power and water version. I've used both and I don't like the Snapnrack. While its tall enough its not long enough for my taste. Like a foot thats too short, its hard to anchor without tiping. Also I would advise some sort of caulk or soft sealing spacer between the top of the rib and the base of the roof bracket for water sealing. jay peltz power On Feb 14, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:I’ve done PV on lots of standing seam and 5V metal roofs, but not one like in this picture: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B4VSfTqIfgFmYzQ4MjFhODktYzg4Yy00OTFlLWFkZWItMTg3MWQ1NTU2ZDBm&hl=en&authkey=CMK9hLsE I think it is called an R-Panel. Trusses fall directly below the tall ribs. I was thinking of something like a SnapNRack Corrugated Roof Bracket that I mentioned before on the list, but I’ve never used this product. Any other ideas? Jason SzumlanskiFafco Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Listed/Approved Battery Box Vent Fan
Good Afternoon Wrenches, In recommending for a client, the materials and plans for constructing a battery box for a 48V, 2400Ah battery, it came to my attention that the only battery box vent fan that i am aware of on the market (the Zeypher) is not UL listed, let alone approved for use in Canada. So now i am in search of such a product. My plans thus far are to have a well sealed box (? at least the upper portion of the box ?) with vent holes in the upper-most part of the box piped together and connecting to one outside exhaust vent. I was planning on using (at least) two of the power vent fans at the top holes of the battery box, but after mentioning using this product to the inspector, he said that the vent fan would be required to bear the proper approval markings. I am still trying to determine if there should be lower 'intake' vents as well. If this power vent is not even listed, what are your feelings on using them in a permitted and inspected system? Is anyone aware of an (approved) product or method for 'power' venting a battery box? I have read some of the extensive threads here on battery boxes and have not found a definitive practice for venting a battery box. I'd be happy for someone to point me in the right direction if i have missed something. There seems to be quite a range of opinions on the need for providing a (lower) intake and (higher) exhaust vent. Thanks,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
I'm curious of others experiences with testing "new" batteries right from the mfgr, before putting them into service. I'm not talking about load testing, i mean just basics...voltage, specific gravity and electrolyte level. I recently received some batteries (24 x 2V) and before putting them to work i tested all the voltages, SG's and levels. Voltages were all with-in 0.016 V (2.1-2.084). The SG's were within 0.037 (1.281-1.244). Yes, the one with the lowest SG also had the lowest V. What concerns me a bit more than the few cells with lower SG is the consistent low levels of electrolyte. All cells were between 3/4" and 1-1/2" below full, which is 1/4" below the bottom of the vent well tube with one exception that was bang-on full. Interestingly, the one full battery was the only one with a different date code than the rest. Should the various levels of electrolyte mentioned be acceptable when a battery is brand new, straight from the mfgr? How bout the SG's? I'm considering adding electrolyte from a local battery shop instead of distilled water to top up all the batteries. Comments? Very thankful for the wealth of knowledge and experience on this list,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
Mick n' Nick,Thanks guys. I shoulda mentioned that the date code says they were mfgrd the 7th week of 2011 and the one exception, the 8th week. So they haven't been sitting too long. I have been in contact with the mfgr, and of course i will take their advice over anyone else's (gotta keep the warranty valid), but you cannot deny the value of the hands-on experience and insight from this list. They said to add distilled water after the initial charge, which is why i was only "considering" adding acid. I have asked about adding acid rather than water. Waiting for reply. Mick, you mentioned that the electrolyte levels may level once all batteries are at equal SOC. Can you elaborate? Do the plates become more or less 'absorbent' or does the chemical reaction change the volume of the liquid. I will watch this closely. cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY From: m...@abrahamsolar.com Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:27:36 -0600 To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries Benn~ If the company that built those batteries is a major brand name, I advise that you add neither water nor acid to the new cells. Check with the mfr, but most of the serious mfrs are using robotic fill equipment that is very precise. If some of the cells are older stock they may have self discharged a bit and the electrolyte level rises & falls like the tide based on state of charge. I'll bet if you can EQ the batts to reach equal state of charge, you also will find the electrolyte level to equalize. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Nick Soleil wrote: Hi Benn: Perhaps those batteries have just been sitting a little while, and need a recharge. Generally speaking, if you find that the batteries test reading are a little low, they are probably just a little discharged. After recharging the batteries, test them again. If those readings are low, then contact the manufacturer with the data. I have had great luck with battery manufacturers warranting their defective batteries in warranty. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: benn kilburn To: Wrenches Sent: Thu, March 24, 2011 9:43:20 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries I'm curious of others experiences with testing "new" batteries right from the mfgr, before putting them into service. I'm not talking about load testing, i mean just basics...voltage, specific gravity and electrolyte level. I recently received some batteries (24 x 2V) and before putting them to work i tested all the voltages, SG's and levels. Voltages were all with-in 0.016 V (2.1-2.084). The SG's were within 0.037 (1.281-1.244). Yes, the one with the lowest SG also had the lowest V. What concerns me a bit more than the few cells with lower SG is the consistent low levels of electrolyte. All cells were between 3/4" and 1-1/2" below full, which is 1/4" below the bottom of the vent well tube with one exception that was bang-on full. Interestingly, the one full battery was the only one with a different date code than the rest. Should the various levels of electrolyte mentioned be acceptable when a battery is brand new, straight from the mfgr? How bout the SG's? I'm considering adding electrolyte from a local battery shop instead of distilled water to top up all the batteries. Comments? Very thankful for the wealth of knowledge and experience on this list,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Addr
Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
Wrenches,Follow up from the mfgr (Surrette) for new batteries, SG and electrolyte levels should level out after a few cycles and do not add water until after an initial charge. The "rise" of the low electrolyte levels can be 'surprising'.No comment on adding acid, or not. Had a great Saturday installing that 48V, 2400Ah bank. Thanks for all comments. cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Tar and Gravel Roof Moint
Eric, Locate a reputable roofer experienced with the roof type you are dealing with and sub them to install stand-offs for you, once you determine the array layout. This will save you alot of time and grief, and you will know that the job was done right. Unless you really want to learn the finer points of penetrating and waterproofing a flat tar and gravel roof not for me. or...Do you have the option of using a ballasted array. Of course, have the design OK'd (stamped?) by an engineer. There's lots of wind loading with a tilt up array on a flat roof. benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:08:39 -0700 From: solarepiph...@gmail.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Tar and Gravel Roof Moint Anyone have experience mounting a tilt up array over a tar and gravel roof? Weatherproofing, best practices for finding rafters, type of standoffs etc. The residential roof in question has over 3" of tar (!) so im thinking 6" stanchion to tilt legs. Any ideas or lessons learned would be helpful. Thanks, Eric Thomas Solar Epiphany Seattle NABCEP Certified PV WA Electrical Contractor SOLAREL911NR ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] PV powered music festival
Wrenches,I have been asked about sizing PV systems for a couple different music festivals that have been run solely off of generators in the past. The problem i'm having is determining the energy consumption of music/stage (amps, speakers, lights, etc...?) loads as well as concession. The organizers have never considered the kwh of electricity used and it has never been metered. I believe the attendance of one festival is expected to be in the range of 5000 and the other closer to 15000 over the course of a weekend. Do any of you have any experiences in this area? How were the loads determined? No doubt that generator back-up will still be needed, to what extent, will be determined. So what we're looking at would be a temporary off-grid PV system with generator back-up... Any suggestions on how to proceed with this one? benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PV powered music festival
Wholy smokes, lots of experiences and great stories out there with this! I'm still going thru all the responses, coming up with how to best respond to the inquires. Careful consideration is definitely key otherwise the show could quickly turn into an "unplugged" festival.Finding out what size generators were used in the past is a good start, and talking to who sized them. benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: Hydrometer source
Fella's,I'm using the Viper Model 5026 refractometer ... 5026 ... My brother who is a heavy duty mechanic ordered it for me a few years ago from his Mac Tool dealer after i was 'venting' about getting inaccurate readings from a hydrometer. Cost was about $80. Came with a hard plastic case that also held a vial of distilled water (for calibration), eye-dropper, special cleaning cloth and calibration screwdriver.Calibration should be done before each use (whole bank not per cell) so that the temperature compensation will be accurate to your surroundings. If the ambient temp is fluctuating while testing then you should re-calibrate often. That is to say, when you calibrate it, it is corrected to the present ambient temperature. Jay, cleaning btwn cells. what i do is keep two rags/shop towels handy. One, i keep on top of the batteries for setting the battery cap (that i'm testing) and the eyedropper on when i'm not using it (to keep the battery tops clean and dry) With the other towel, after testing each cell i wipe the optic lens surface clean and dry just like the Care/Maintenance instructions say "...must be thoroughly wiped clean and dry after each use" (-to ensure accurate readings) I have noticed if there is any residue or smudge on the optic lens (not thoroughly cleaned) then the indication line is distorted and not 'sharp' and will vary the reading by +-0.005. benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY > From: j...@asis.com > Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 11:47:29 -0700 > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: Hydrometer source > > Hi Jeff, > > How much do you "clean or rinse" your unit between each cell? > > I'm trying to figure out how much I need to do between each test. > > thanks, > > > jay > > peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Battery interconnect cable length
Thanks for the feedback guys. Yeah, i suppose that in a single string, cable length is not as important as it would be for the paralleling cables. Ray, good point that if there are multiple parallel strings, then the series jumpers in one string should be equal length to the series jumpers in each string. I see the logic in that. Daryle, 'right-angle lugs', i've seen those. Good suggestion for difficult connections, thanks. I'll have to keep a few of those handy for future jobs. Bob, are you saying that you weld the interconnect cables to the battery posts? and/or use 'plates' to bolt the posts together? I've seen plates used, but welding the lugs to the posts ? ... see next thread 'Battery Post Galling' benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Battery Post Galling
So this was a first for me today... I've had racking bolts gall before, but today while bolting a battery interconnect cable on a battery post, the nut galled about 3/4 of the way down the post. (Threaded 'bolt' posts, not single or double hole flag posts) I've gotten pretty good about using anti-seize on all stainless racking bolts but never considered using it on battery post bolts before. I spun the nut on about half way by hand then got a couple cranks with the wrench when the nut suddenly tightened up. Thinking that the thread might have been damaged, i instinctively began to back it off but got less than an eighth of a turn out of it and it was completely seized! Two things... 1) while i go re-read all my info on galling, is it common practice amongst you battery savvy wrenches to always use anti-seize on battery posts? I'm thinking that it is for me, now! (only on the threads, not between the lug and the post) 2) now that i have a nut seized 3/4 of the way down the post, and the lug is still quite loose, what would be the best course of action? I did email the mfgr and am waiting for their reply, but in the meantime, solutions i'm considering... using a hacksaw to cut the nut off and hopefully be able to re-cut the threads, weld the lug onto the post (Bob E., i believe you mentioned welding 'interconnects', would this be a solution here?)... thats all i've got. hmm...benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Post Galling
William,Luckily, the battery was new and under warranty and the mfgr, Surrette, was very helpful and immediately offered a replacement.Had this been out-of-warranty, then yeah, cutting the bolt/lug off would've been my best (only?) option. Still wondering about welding it in place? A battery shop i deal with in town suggested that they could cut the damaged post off then tap a new hole beside it and insert a new (headless) bolt/post. Lesson learned (as you said) use anti-seize on every bolt that cannot be slid out or otherwise easily removed! It's just like insurance, sometimes seems unnecessary and rarely useful, but when sh*t happens, you'll be glad you used it! benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 00:08:40 -0700 To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org From: will...@millersolar.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Post Galling Benn: You must break the bolt or cut it. I belive Unirac has a white paper on galling. We use anti-seize on any bolt we can not slide out sideways easily. This includes any battery bolt and any non-toggle racking bolt other than end bolts. William At 11:32 PM 6/6/2011, you wrote: So this was a first for me today... I've had racking bolts gall before, but today while bolting a battery interconnect cable on a battery post, the nut galled about 3/4 of the way down the post. (Threaded 'bolt' posts, not single or double hole flag posts) I've gotten pretty good about using anti-seize on all stainless racking bolts but never considered using it on battery post bolts before. I spun the nut on about half way by hand then got a couple cranks with the wrench when the nut suddenly tightened up. Thinking that the thread might have been damaged, i instinctively began to back it off but got less than an eighth of a turn out of it and it was completely seized! Two things... 1) while i go re-read all my info on galling, is it common practice amongst you battery savvy wrenches to always use anti-seize on battery posts? I'm thinking that it is for me, now! (only on the threads, not between the lug and the post) 2) now that i have a nut seized 3/4 of the way down the post, and the lug is still quite loose, what would be the best course of action? I did email the mfgr and am waiting for their reply, but in the meantime, solutions i'm considering... using a hacksaw to cut the nut off and hopefully be able to re-cut the threads, weld the lug onto the post (Bob E., i believe you mentioned welding 'interconnects', would this be a solution here?)... thats all i've got. hmm... benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1375 / Virus Database: 1511/3685 - Release Date: 06/06/11 William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge v Enphase
Mark,I thought that the SolarEdge reduced the 'string' voltage to 1V per unit/module, reducing the high DC voltage risk factor, until the inverter switch was turned on? The fact that by hitting the "off" switch on the inverter will reduce the potentially high DC voltage to 1V per unit/module could be an advantage from a safety perspective (maintenance, firemen/utility workers) Labor/time-wise, it is like installing both a microinverter system and a string inverter system together, soo benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY From: ma...@berkeleysolar.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 06:10:05 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge v Enphase Message body Folks, Can anyone discern any compelling benefit of using the SolarEdge architecture over a Enphase? It seems to me that with SolarEdge you get the benefits of a microinverter with all the downside of series string inverters. SolarEdge still leaves you with bolting up a box at every module, with high voltage (over 250V) DC wiring, and doubling DC connector count. Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Ballpark Cost/Watt
William is right, there is another list that is suited for these questions. Ask Michael about it. benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 14:13:03 -0700 To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org From: will...@millersolar.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Ballpark Cost/Watt Friends: I don't know if any of you share my feelings, but I am not real comfortable corresponding about bidding on this list, for these reasons: 1. I thought this list was for mechanical / electrical / technical issues. 2. Anyone would be a fool to let someone else ascertain a bid for them. Each contractor has different costs, techniques and situations. 3. Each job is different. I avoid even figuring a dollar/watt ratio for a given job, because it won't necessarily apply to the next job.. 4. I want to avoid any appearance of price fixing. If the rest of you want to compare notes on pricing, feel free, but I won't be participating. William Miller At 12:59 PM 6/10/2011, you wrote: Hello Wrenches, My employer has the inside track on a 1MW install on .5/12 standing seam metal roofs (two separate roofs). This is by far larger than anything we've designed so I am looking for a ballpark cost/watt. I'm at around $4/watt. I realize there are lots of variables and I am looking for help on this but just wondering if I am in the ballpark? Thank you. Larry Liesner Design and Installations Elektron Solar, LLC 16 Ketchum St. Westport, CT 06880 203-557-3127 (office) 203-644-2404 (cell) 203-549-0977 (fax) wire...@gmail.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer (# 032611-184) ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Interesting Dust Issue
Max, fine powdery material? It could very well be a pollen/dust issue, and as you suggest it could accumulate twofold, on the roof as well as the PV array. As for it only running off on the one side perhaps the wind is predominately from the south and the two surfaces are catching most/all the pollen/dust before it blows over the roof to the north side?agricultural area = fields + machinery = lots of dust. Are his fields or neighboring fields sprayed with chemicals? benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:26:28 -0400 From: m...@southern-energy.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Interesting Dust Issue Esteemed Wrenches, I have an interesting issue with one of my installations. This is the message from the customer: "I use the barn roof for rainwater harvesting, too. The first rain after installation left my wire mesh strainer clogged with a fine powdery material. I assumed it was debris from installation. The next rain gave the same result. I assumed it was pollen as I have for each rain since. HOWEVER, the roof has two sides and it is only the south side, with the PV panels, that clogs!" The site is in an agricultural area and the barn has a metal roof. We completed the installation about 6 months ago and he is still having the issue. My first thought is that it is related to the doubling of surface area since pollen could accumulate on both the modules and the roof surface below. Any suggestions or thoughts would be great. Thanks Max -- Max Isaacs, Residential Project Manager Southern Energy Management (C) 919.538.9712 (O) 919.836.0330 (F) 919.836.0305 101 Kitty Hawk Drive Morrisville, NC 27560 www.southern-energy.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Gunk in lead acid batteries
Wrenches,I have a client with a newer (March '11) set of lead acid batteries (24 x 2V = 48V bank) that has a reoccurring 'problem' that i haven't seen or heard of before, i'm wondering if any of you have??? There is a very sticky, gooey, grey metallic like gunk floating on top of the electrolyte. It has gummed up a couple (so far) of my eyedroppers that i use with my refractometer, and despite my efforts, when a little bit of this gunk finds its way onto the refractometer lens, it is difficult and time consuming to remove. I can only imagine the havoc it would reap on a hydrometer if it were sucked inside! The (very reputable) battery manufacturer has told me... "This happens occassionally when our supplier uses too much releasing agent in their separator. It is inert and will not cause any capacity or performance issues.", this is good news, and they mention it can be removed by swirling a glass rod around in the electrolyte. Alas i do not have glass rods in my tool bag so i resort to spinning a tywrap between my fingers, which seems to be quite effective as the gunk is quite sticky, then squeezing it off with a rag. However even after i've removed as much as possible, for several batteries, a little bit of the gunk still manages to get on my refractometer lens. Argh! The issue that is really getting to me now is that once i've removed as much as will come out of each battery and am thankful that i've gotten rid of it all, several weeks to a month and a half later... there is more of it! I pull out an amount about the size of 7/16" nut each time Not from every battery, but from at least 2/3 of them every 1.5 months or so. Unfortunately i haven't been monitoring exactly how much or from which cells each time. It appears to be random. I can share some pics, but i don't have them readily available at the moment. For a battery bank that cost in the range of $30,000 i find it difficult to explain, and i receive a cockeyed stare, when tell the client that he has to endure this very annoying inconvenience. Am i alone on this one? Thanks,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Re-shingling roof
Hey Wrenches, I know it has been discussed on this list, but i'm not having any luck finding any threads on how to deal with re-shingling an asphalt shingle roof with a PV array already on it. I have a potential client who is asking (somewhat concerned) about this scenario and i'm looking into what suggestions i can offer. Their roof is only 3-4 yrs old now. Depending on the condition of the roof when the system is installed, is re-shingling around the array an option, since it will have been somewhat protected from the sun/rain/snow? ... or is that just a bad idea and not something that should be suggested (re-shingling around the array)? If anyone can recall the name or date of a thread on this topic, i'd appreciate being pointed in the right direction. I'm sure i recall in one of these threads, WM talking about his custom(?) mounting method that allows for the array to be easily tilted up to allow access underneath. Thanks,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Re-shingling roof - Added "life cost"?
Wrenches, So a follow/add-on up to the last post. So do any of you add the cost of labour for removing and replacing a roof top array, to be included in the "life cost" of a PV system, since it is reasonable to assume that a well installed array will outlast any asphalt shingle roof, and re-shingling around the array is not recommended since no roofing company would warranty this work?Just as informing an off-grid client that the batteries will not last as long as the charge controllers/inverter/array, and will need to be upgraded from time to time, so it will be a system lifetime ongoing cost to consider. Thanks,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY From: b...@daystarsolar.ca To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 13:03:49 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Re-shingling roof Hey Wrenches, I know it has been discussed on this list, but i'm not having any luck finding any threads on how to deal with re-shingling an asphalt shingle roof with a PV array already on it. I have a potential client who is asking (somewhat concerned) about this scenario and i'm looking into what suggestions i can offer. Their roof is only 3-4 yrs old now. Depending on the condition of the roof when the system is installed, is re-shingling around the array an option, since it will have been somewhat protected from the sun/rain/snow? ... or is that just a bad idea and not something that should be suggested (re-shingling around the array)? If anyone can recall the name or date of a thread on this topic, i'd appreciate being pointed in the right direction. I'm sure i recall in one of these threads, WM talking about his custom(?) mounting method that allows for the array to be easily tilted up to allow access underneath. Thanks,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sharp 62 Watt Shingle Installation Info needed
David,Sorry, a bit slow on the reply. A few years ago I installed about 15kW of the GE Geko modules which are similar to these ones. I believe the Geko's were 55W and 65W. I worked closely with the roofer who was installing the cement roof tiles. He would lay out the bottom row or two of cement tiles and then i would tell him how many modules i wanted to install per row and he would come along behind me and fill in either end of each row with the cement tiles.You do need to have the "holding clips/brackets" that are screwed to the roof beneath the bottom edge of each module. These are for protecting against wind uplift, since otherwise, each module is only held to the roof by two or three screws at the top edge of the module. VERY IMPORTANT... To whomever is laying out the strapping on the roof (you or the roofer) You have to pay close attention to the vertical spacing of the strapping that the modules and cement tiles will rest on, (this spacing determines the tile overlap) and leave enough space for the modules to lay on each other without overlapping too much, otherwise one course/row of modules could overlap the cells of the course/row below it and you will end up with permanent shading! Also, be sure that whoever is coming along behind and nailing down the tiles is well aware of the wiring that will be routed beneath the modules and tiles. Are the Sharp ones the ones with the polycarbonate frames? Hope this helps. bennDayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY > From: dk...@aeesolar.com > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 08:53:03 -0700 > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sharp 62 Watt Shingle Installation Info needed > > Wrenches, > I just picked up 32 Sharp 62 watt roofing shingles that I want to install on > my barn since it is time for a new roof. Has anyone had any experience > putting these modules on a roof in conjunction with cement tiles, which > sharp's data sheet says they integrate with. > David Katz > > David Katz > CTO & Founder > AEE Solar Inc > P: 707 825-1200 > F: 707 825-1202 > dk...@aeesolar.com > www.aeesolar.com > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Looking for a Hanwha Q.Cell
Hey Wrenches, We are looking for a single Hanwha Q.Peak-G4.1/SC 305W If anyone has a lead for me please respond off-list. Mucho thanks!!! Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 3-Phase SolarEdge L-L 215v
Sounds like you are working with a 120/208V system? What do you get from line to ground? Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 > On Feb 13, 2018, at 9:53 AM, Eric Stikes wrote: > > I am troubleshooting a SolarEdge system with 9kW 3-Ph inverters. The system > is working OK but production is a bit low. There may be other factors and I > am looking into those too but I want to sort out this one issue: I am not too > familiar with 3-phase and when I ask SolarEdge about best way to connect to a > 3-Ph delta, they advise to stay away from the stinger and connect a 1-ph > inverter to L1 & L2 only, and that has worked out fine. However, This system > has a 3-ph inverter and L1 to L2 is reading about 215 volts from the utility. > L1 to L3 is the same and L2 to L3 is also about 215 volts. Perhaps this is a > 3-Ph WYE with just a higher than typical voltage coming from the utility > t-former. My thought here is that maybe the 3-ph inverters are only providing > 2/3 power back to the utility, or if there's some way to get to 240v L-L. The > existing loads are serviced by both 2-pole and 3-pole breakers but everything > is pretty much 1-phase I believe. I'm wondering if I should consider > reconfiguring the system with 1-Ph inverters tied in to only 2 of the utility > legs. I asked SolarEdge weeks ago but getting nothing from them. Any > thoughts? Thanks! > > Eric Stikes > SunHarvest Solar > +1 (530) 798 - 3738 > www.harvesthesun.com > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] rail less standing seam attachments
Ray, I believe S5! offers an approved roof anchor that attaches to standing seams. A bit pricy (few hundred, I think) especially considering they are one per person but sometimes that's the cost of safety. Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 > On Mar 31, 2018, at 11:19 AM, Ray wrote: > > Hi Bill; > > Not to hijack the thread, but how did you handle fall protection and work > safely on that 12:12 pitch metal roof? I have a steep standing seam roof > project coming up. We wanted to set a ledger board on S5 clips, but were > worried they would leave visible damage to the new roof. > Thanks > > Ray Walters > > Remote Solar > >> On 3/31/18 11:00 AM, Bill Hoffer wrote: >> Jay >> Just finished using S5PV railess on standing seam roof 12x12 pitch. Worked >> great, but wire management was challenging with minimal clearance under >> modules. Had to think ahead to make it work. And still was a struggle. I >> also used 6 rather then 4 per module to even out the loads on the roof >> panels. I feel confident that it is solid, but I know how the roof was >> connected to include proper clip spacing and screw size for maximum wind >> load here in the Columbia Gorge and proper tacking of the top of the panel >> under the ridge to prevent sliding down. If I had it to do over I would >> however have used rails to make wire management easier! >> >> Bill >> >>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 6:03 PM jay wrote: >>> HI All, >>> >>> I’ve got a client who is set on wanting to do rail less racking. I’m just >>> working with him on overall design, hes doing the work. >>> >>> Its not a large system. 16 modules on two roof orientations, ( 4 on one, >>> 12 on the other) with offset modules. Standing metal seam roof that is >>> being installed with solar in mind, lots of fasteners. >>> >>> Hes very competent and pays attention to details. >>> >>> Any positive/negative recommendations. >>> >>> thanks in advance, >>> >>> jay >>> >>> peltz power >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Looking for insulated #6 bare standoff
Dana, Why does it have to be bare copper? Can you not use a green insulated #6? Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 > On Apr 18, 2018, at 10:59 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > wrote: > > Why is it #6? Usually the solar panels wire size determine Array Teks size > for this wiring. What do they say please? --Dave > >> How about an insulated loop clamp like this one: >> https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/0216763 >> >> You can get them in stainless and they have the rubber grommet so it won't >> touch the rack. >> >>> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 12:00 PM, Dana wrote: >>> >>> Good Morning Wrenches, >>> >>> >>> >>> I am required to keep the bare #6 copper from touching the aluminum >>> frame >>> work of a Array Technologies tracker where it is not mechanically >>> connected >>> by a pass-through ground clamp on a tracking array [dissimilar metals] >>> and >>> am looking for a lead on an insulated standoff or strap to hold the #6 >>> bare >>> copper as it passes from panel to panel and rail to rail. The plans >>> examiner would accept pass through clamps & this is a worst case-spendy >>> solution to this. >>> >>> >>> >>> I have searched the inquired at local electrical warehouse &on the >>> internet and to no avail under “insulated strap” & “insulated >>> cable >>> standoff”. >>> >>> >>> >>> Has anyone else encountered his & what did you use? Where did you source >>> this strap? >>> >>> >>> >>> I remember seeing something like this in the fuzzy past & cannot recall >>> where I saw it or what it was for. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for any suggestions. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. >>> >>> *C - 208.721.7003 d...@solarwork.com >>> * >>> >>> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 >>> >>> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.biz >>> >>> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * >>> >>> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. >>> org/maillist.html >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> *Will White* >> Curriculum Developer >> >> [image: Inline image 3] >> >> e: w...@solarenergy.org >> w: www.solarenergy.org >> p: 802-272-3092 >> >> PV Installation Professional >> # 093006-34 >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ > e-mail offgridso...@sti.net > text 209 813 0060 > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Squirrel Guards for Solarworld 2.0 Frames
We've used the Solatrim on one larger system. Installed it fall of '17. Time will tell if the adhesive can withstand our temperatures swings of 30degC to -40degC Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 > On May 8, 2018, at 9:50 AM, Nik Ponzio, Building Energy > wrote: > > We need to add squirrel guards to an older system with Solarworld panels. The > 2.0 frames are not compatible with the snapNrack or spiffy solar guards that > we have used in the past. Any other products that we should consider? > > Has anyone used the SolaTrim with adhesive attachment? http://solatrim.com/ > > > -- > Nik Ponzio > Building Energy > 1570 South Brownell Road > Williston, VT 05495 > 802-859-3384 ext.115 > http://www.BuildingEnergyVT.com > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco Insulated Tap Connectors
I'll x2 what Ray saysunless it specifies AC or DC then the voltage rating applies to either. Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 > On Jun 2, 2018, at 11:10 AM, Ray wrote: > > I pulled up the Ilsco site. They are rated to 600 volts. That voltage is AC > and DC, unless it specifically says AC only. We've used them for decades > with DC. Check your voltage rating for THHN cable: it does not say DC > either. > Ilsco is also one of the few manufacturers to make flex cable rated > connectors. They have blue caps. This is what we should be using when using > higher strand count cables like Cobra X Flex. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 >> On 6/2/18 8:18 AM, Darryl Thayer wrote: >> I have heard AC DC no difference. However, I have experienced failure of >> these connectors via insulation softening in J boxes on the roof. The >> plastic is not thermal set and it will distort if pressured against the side >> of the box. This has never been a problem for interior wiring only in the >> solar case outside. >> >>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 4:50 PM, James Rudolph >>> wrote: >>> Aloha Wrenches, >>> Does anyone know if Ilsco Insulated Tap Connectors at DC rated? >>> I looked on their cut sheet, and even called the Cincinnati and I was not >>> able to confirm this? >>> >>> Does anybody know this, or have a better connector to use? >>> >>> Mahalo in advance, >>> >>> James B. Rudolph >>> Hawaii Unifed >>> Director of Energy >>> ES Electrician # 10816 >>> NABCEP Certified PV Installer # 091209-155 >>> 808.594.9969 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs
Glenn, Would you Bond/ground every metal pan or only the ones beneath the array? Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 > On Jun 17, 2018, at 11:46 AM, "glenn.b...@glbcc.com" > wrote: > > We use the Ilsco SGB-4 ground lug on every pan under the array for > residential systems. > > -Glenn > > Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone > > -- Original message-- > From: AE Solar > Date: Sun, Jun 17, 2018 12:29 PM > To: RE-wrenches; > Cc: > Subject:[RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs > > wrenchers, > what methods are you all using for grounding on metal roofs? thanks > adam > > Adam Katzman > Autonomous Energies > PO Box 1245 > Kingston, NY 12402 > www.autonomousenergies.com > (518) 567-1468 > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Removing graffiti from modules
Hey everyone, Do any of you have experience removing graffiti from solar modules? Any tips for do’s and dont’s? Thanks Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Removing graffiti from modules
Bill, It’s white, does that help? ;) Kidding aside, I couldn’t tell you precisely what type of paint they used. These are CSI mods and their manual doesn’t mention using anything other than water and a “gentle cleaning implement” (soft sponge, for example). I have seen some module manuals mention using a mild soap. I’m going to see what Canadian Solar suggests but this group is always worth checking with. Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 > On Sep 9, 2018, at 9:32 AM, frenergy wrote: > > Help us with this Benn. Are we talking spray paint, airgun, acrylic, crayon, > lipstick..? Recently, due to not having any rain for 3.5 months in > smokey with ash No. California, I referred to the REC website for cleaning > PVs and they didn't suggest anything stronger than a solution of "a mild > biological and biodegradable washing-up liquid may be used on the panels". > They did go on to say for stubborn areas that 10% iso-propyl alcohol could be > used. > > Bill > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, Owner > 4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 > CA Lic 874049 > www.frenergy.net >> On 9/9/2018 6:55 AM, Benn Kilburn wrote: >> Hey everyone, >> Do any of you have experience removing graffiti from solar modules? >> Any tips for do’s and dont’s? >> Thanks >> >> Benn Kilburn >> SkyFire Energy >> 780-906-7807 >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > -- > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Removing graffiti from modules
Yeah, there is plenty more on the wall beside the array and on other walls/signs of the business. This is just what they did to the solar modules. Ray, no i don't believe the owner has tried anything, yet. <http://www.skyfireenergy.com> Benn Kilburn CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc 14515 - 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2 Direct: 780-784-1706 | Office: 780-474-8992 *www.skyfireenergy.com <http://www.skyfireenergy.com/>* <https://twitter.com/SkyFireEnergy> <https://www.facebook.com/SkyFireEnergy> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/283735?trk=tyah&trkInfo=tarId%3A1408655033432%2Ctas%3Askyfire%2Cidx%3A2-2-5> On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 8:38 AM, frenergy wrote: > Benn, > > Ouch, that looks like quite a job. Definitely looks like an > airgun/airbrush job, probably acrylic. After the cleaning, put up a > wildlife camera just in case. > > Bill > > On 9/9/2018 1:27 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote: > > Bill, > It’s white, does that help? ;) > Kidding aside, I couldn’t tell you precisely what type of paint they used. > These are CSI mods and their manual doesn’t mention using anything other > than water and a “gentle cleaning implement” (soft sponge, for example). I > have seen some module manuals mention using a mild soap. > > I’m going to see what Canadian Solar suggests but this group is always > worth checking with. > [image: IMG_3152.JPG] > Benn Kilburn > SkyFire Energy > 780-906-7807 > > On Sep 9, 2018, at 9:32 AM, frenergy wrote: > > Help us with this Benn. Are we talking spray paint, airgun, acrylic, > crayon, lipstick..? Recently, due to not having any rain for 3.5 > months in smokey with ash No. California, I referred to the REC website > for cleaning PVs and they didn't suggest anything stronger than a solution > of "*a mild biological and biodegradable washing-up liquid may be used on > the panels*". They did go on to say for stubborn areas that 10% > iso-propyl alcohol could be used. > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, Owner > 4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 > CA Lic 874049www.frenergy.net > > On 9/9/2018 6:55 AM, Benn Kilburn wrote: > > Hey everyone, > Do any of you have experience removing graffiti from solar modules? > Any tips for do’s and dont’s? > Thanks > > Benn Kilburn > SkyFire Energy > 780-906-7807 > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & > settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > -- > > > > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon> > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link> > <#m_-5658875307086996128_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. > org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & > settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > -- > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, Owner > 4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 > CA Lic 874049www.frenergy.net > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-w
Re: [RE-wrenches] Raised racking system
If budget and engineering allows, get I-beams cut to 3’ lengths with a plate welded on either end and bolt them down to the concrete roof? Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 > On Sep 19, 2018, at 11:08 AM, Chris Mason > wrote: > > I'm quoting a job on a concrete roof with three foot parapet walls. I'd like > to raise the arrays about 24 inches above the roof to minimize shading, does > any one have a solution for this application? > > -- > Chris Mason > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Cutting rail
I’ve been looking at picking up a portable bandsaw, likely Makita but a reciprocating saw has served me very well over the years. If you hold the edge of the cutting guard against the end-clamp you can get a nice uniform inch and a half or so of rail past the clamp. Using a circular saw leaves too much rail for my liking unless you Measure and cut the rail before laying down the last module. I prefer cutting blades with at least 14 TPI (teeth per inch). The cutting teeth will get gummed up with aluminum when it gets too hot so you have to check it at least after cutting each rail and pick out any gummed up spots with your linesman. I would Also recommend getting some of this…https://www.zoro.com/bio-circle-coolcut-lubricant-300g-solid-stick-pk12-53b013/i/G0934138/?REVIEW_DISPLAY_SNAPSHOT_TYPE=SIMPLE … And putting a bit on your blades when cutting. I always use this on metal sawblades and when drilling into metal especially using a Uni bit. Tell everyone on the crew to get them selves a small used tin and keep some of this handy. A tube of this should last years. Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 > On Jun 12, 2019, at 10:36 PM, frenergy wrote: > > Any suggestions for cutting rail with a Sawzall? Many times at the end of a > run of PVs there could be 5-6" of rail (in this case DPW P8). I like to use > a circular saw but sometimes I don't have enough clearance once the rail and > panels are installed. The sawzall works but I'm looking for a blade that > doesn't load up with aluminum too fast and cuts without too much vibration. > Other ideas? > > Thanks, > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, Owner > 4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 > CA Lic 874049 > www.frenergy.net > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Damaged in shipping
Dave, If you are not alreadyMake sure you keep communication with them open about the issue during this time...so you don’t spring the issue on them if/when it drags out being resolved. Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 > On Jul 2, 2019, at 2:26 PM, Dave Tedeyan wrote: > > Hi All, > Thanks for the thoughts and opinions. It helps me a lot to get other opinions > from people who have been doing this much longer than I. I am leaning towards > the "don't charge any more until the issue is settled and then come up with a > fair price" with the customer. Fortunately, I know that they are good people, > who are also well connected in the area, so keeping a good relationship with > them is certainly important. > Cheers, > Dave > > Dave Tedeyan, PE > Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC > > 110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850 > o. 607.277.1118 x121 f. 607.277.2119 > www.taitem.com > > Solar • Sustainability • Energy • Design > B-Corporation Best for the World 2018 Honoree > > >> On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 3:03 PM Jerry Shafer wrote: >> Dave >> Wow it really sounds like a mess, logically you would charge the customer >> for your time but ethically or morally or as a humanitarian you would >> discount the cost, l have been in your shoes and it is a difficult position. >> I would have a conversation with the customer detailing your time and costs >> and come up with a number. Sure you can say it's this much and that's it but >> we are all in business to stay in business so customer satisfaction and good >> words go a long way to referrals. >> Jerry >> >>> On Mon, Jul 1, 2019, 8:32 AM Dave Tedeyan wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> I thought I would pick the hive mind to get some thoughts on whose >>> responsibility it is when you service a system and things go wrong beyond >>> your control. >>> >>> Here is the situation: >>> Outback Radian GS8048 inverter (out of warranty) goes offline and stops >>> working. Customer calls me to check it out, and in the meantime, they had >>> an electrician rewire the backed up loads to bypass the inverter (not >>> realizing there was a simple bypass switch...). By the time I get there the >>> inverter is working again. I wire the backed up loads back to the inverter, >>> educate them about the bypass switch, and call Outback. We see some >>> erroneous data on Optics, and so they suggest I replace all the ethernet >>> cables with shielded cat5e. I do that, and charge the customer for the >>> visit. >>> >>> A few days later, the inverter goes stops working again. I go back out and >>> this time the issue is still active. Outback suspects it is one of the >>> control boards, which cannot be field replaced. So the choices are send the >>> whole inverter to Outback, or get a new Power stack for about $2500. So I >>> send the inverter in. I offer to the customer to not have them pay for my >>> labor this visit, since they already paid me to fix this issue and it did >>> not work. >>> >>> Outback tests the inverter, finds no fault, although I ask them to replace >>> the board anyway, since the fault was intermittent. They tested it and it >>> was working then it left their facility. I receive it in a rough looking >>> box. I go reinstall it, and the mate3 sees it, and the communications are >>> okay, which is the original issue that I sent it in for. But now it will >>> not put out any AC voltage. So a completely different issue, but still a >>> useless piece of equipment in its current state. Tech support and I cannot >>> determine exactly what is wrong after running through some troubleshooting >>> steps, so they say I need to send it back to their facility. The best I can >>> come up with is that it got damaged during shipment on the way back. (I was >>> not excited to see that they left some poor Fedex driver to handle a 130lb >>> package on their own) So the inverter is currently in transit back to >>> Outback. >>> >>> Here is the question: >>> Would you all be charging the customer for all the time spent on >>> troubleshooting and shipping, or at some point do you eat some of these >>> costs? Even though (I am fairly certain) that I have done nothing negligent >>> and none of this is my fault... but I am still not sure if it is right to >>> charge the customer for all this back and forth when my actions have not >>> resulted in a fixed
Re: [RE-wrenches] Ground Mount with cable anchors
Glenn, I've installed an 80+kW and a couple 10+kW systems using this Nuance system. They are assembled fairly quickly and the legs are adjustable for uneven ground, which is nice. The ease of driving the cable anchors into the ground will, of course, depend on the site. Luckily, i had no issue with rocks and the only real issue i had driving the anchors was the driving rod separating once or twice (due to the length of anchors for our location, we needed a 2-piece driving rod). Testing the (pull-out strength) anchors is a bit cumbersome and we have not come up with a way of re-testing the front ones once the mods are installed. Make sure you use a scale that has a "max pull" feature to hold the max pull-out strength otherwise the numbers are constantly moving and difficult to read. Hopefully they have added leg braces to the front legs where they are needed more so than just on the back legs. If they haven't, then i suggest requesting them as the front legs *will* buckle under high wind from the north. I'm not convinced that they are a solid ground mount solution as the cable-anchor system does allow for some movement so they will allow for the full array/rack to shift and move, as i have seen on the 80kW system. <http://www.skyfireenergy.com> Benn Kilburn CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc Employee Owner 14515 - 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2 Direct: 780-784-1706 | Office: 780-474-8992 *www.skyfireenergy.com <http://www.skyfireenergy.com/>* <https://twitter.com/SkyFireEnergy> <https://www.facebook.com/SkyFireEnergy> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/283735?trk=tyah&trkInfo=tarId%3A1408655033432%2Ctas%3Askyfire%2Cidx%3A2-2-5> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 1:31 PM Jerry Shafer wrote: > Wrenches/Glen > I know nuance, they must be trailered or crained into position, leveled on > site and cables are driven in and pre-loaded and cable locks installed. I > have there products around California along with the predecessor. Delivery > can be an issue and there team does the cables so that's something to > consider too. They are fast to install, pre-layout the conduit and drop and > very quickly you are up and running. We have also done there blasted > version with concrete blocks or even just 36" pin anchors > Jerry > > On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 12:09 PM Glenn Burt wrote: > >> Hello Wrenches, >> >> >> >> We are looking at alternatives to pile driving and helical piles and >> concrete piers for small residential ground mount systems. >> >> I have just found Nuance Energy who makes a system that is basically set >> on the grade, and with cables and pivoting duckbill earth anchors and >> attached cables to secure it. >> >> Does anyone have any experience with this system specifically? >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance! >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> >> >> Glenn Burt >> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Tripping gfi
This may, or may not provide some helpful info https://www.electricianinformationresource.com/dc-circuit-breakers.html?fbclid=IwAR0iQzT58cgAbBEcbtg2N_ETDV5qkC31Qz7_py83pgaoLm_l0ZPGNAmN2KQ Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 > On Jan 14, 2020, at 7:03 PM, Mac Lewis wrote: > > Hi wrenches, > > I've got an off grid customer that has an external PV GFI breaker in his > charge controller that trips when the dryer is on. He snuck in an electric > dryer uggh > > However, I am curious what the mechanism might be to cause the trip. Will a > ground fault on the AC side of an inverter trip a PV GFI on a charge > controller? > > I haven't dug too deep into this yet but maybe someone else has seen this. > > > Thanks in advance for your help. > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Direct solar options for stock tank de icing
Gary, Is there already power to the tanks or are you looking for off-grid solutions? If there is power then a simple tank de-icer has been working fine for me. I built an insulated box with a hole in the top for filling/drinking for a 30gal water trough, in hopes that it would use a bit less energy. I often come across this idea... typically after a cold snap and I see my electric bill (we have a few electric water heaters for animals)... I’m just not set up to put my water tank in a sunny spot right now. https://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/tools/solar-stock-tank-zmaz10onzraw Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 > On Feb 10, 2020, at 1:51 PM, gary easton wrote: > > Hello Wrenches. > I have a friend in need of a way to keep stock tanks free of ice during > winter months. Has any one had any experience with direct solar options for > this? > -- > Sent from Gmail Mobile > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Disconnect spacing
Looks fine to me, Jason. Did you ask him to cite a particular code rule? Only other issue would be is if either of those pieces requires more space in their install instructions/Mfgr specs. Good luck Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 > On Mar 11, 2020, at 10:18 AM, Jason Szumlanski > wrote: > > I have an inspector telling me that this pictured fusible disconnect is too > close to the adjacent enclosure. Is anyone aware of a code supported spacing > requirement or manufacturer specification on such a thing? I have 3-1/2 > inches from the handle to the enclosure which I believe is ample space for > safe and effective operation of the handle. > > Jason Szumlanski > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] White wire for DC- after ground fault breaker
James, where is the CT located? If it’s in a panelboard/loadcenter, I understand that they are not “certified” to allow CT’s inside so the work-around is to pass the conductors thru a jbox before the panelboard and locate the CTs there. Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 > On Jun 14, 2020, at 6:08 AM, Mac Lewis wrote: > > James, > > I might open the ground fault breaker and show him with the ohmmeter that > this is not a solidly grounded system. You are absolutely correct with this > and if he gets tough just let him know you need him to sign off personally > that you had informed him of this exact code reference. Or he may sign off > from the office... > >> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 7:21 PM Kent Osterberg wrote: >> James, >> >> Here's the code reference: 2017 690.31(B)(1). Only solidly grounded PV >> system conductors shall be marked in accordance with 200.6 (white or gray). >> >> Kent Osterberg >> Blue Mountain Solar >> >> >>> On 6/13/2020 5:56 PM, James Jarvis wrote: >>> Brian, thank you very much. With your hint of "functional ground" I can >>> clearly see that I am not allowed to have those be white wires. >>> >>> Now time for me to incur the full wrath by daring to question the infinite >>> wisdom of the "highly qualified individual" from the state. >>> >>> (all kinds of fun stuff from this guy. Got another violation for having a >>> donut type current transformer over a line voltage wire. He said that >>> wasn't allowed.) >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> -James Jefferson Jarvis >>> APRS World, LLC >>> +1-507-454-2727 >>> >>> (Sent from my phone. My apologies for spelling errors and brevity.) >>> >>>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 17:41 Brian Mehalic wrote: >>>> Change in 2017 to “functional grounded” was to clarify this - it’s not >>>> solid when it is thru a fuse or breaker than can be interrupted either in >>>> the event of a ground-fault or if the breaker is intentionally opened. >>>> 2017 makes it clear that there are very few solidly grounded systems (2 or >>>> less PV source circuits, not touching a building the only case it is >>>> allowed). Pardon any incorrect language as I don’t have my code book, but >>>> I do think the 2017 NEC® makes it very clear, including in the definition >>>> of function grounded, that those conductors cannot be white or gray, >>>> regardless of if the system has a transformer-based or TL inverter or a CC >>>> with integrated or an external GF breaker/fuse. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> > On Jun 13, 2020, at 3:05 PM, greg egan wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Jim, Hope all is well with you and yours. on white wires in circuits, >>>> > In 3 ph. circuits you can get killed breaking into a neutral that's >>>> > common to other circuits. One example, working on 277 lighting, you >>>> > throw the breaker or light switch on the one circuit you're working so >>>> > the hot isn't hot anymore. It's standard practice for 3 ph. lighting >>>> > ckts to share a neutral. The white wire in your ckt is wire nutted in >>>> > the j-box up in the ceiling to the common neutrals. Those neutrals are >>>> > hot to ground when their respective ckts are hot and they're carrying >>>> > current. >>>> > >>>> > Just thought it was worth mentioning on this list that there's no hard >>>> > fast rule that all white wires are dead. It depends on the ckt. >>>> > >>>> > Best, >>>> > Greg Egan >>>> > Remote Power Inc. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Message: 11 >>>> > Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 15:17:19 -0500 >>>> > From: James Jarvis >>>> > To: RE-wrenches >>>> > Subject: [RE-wrenches] White wire for DC- after ground fault breaker >>>> > Message-ID: >>>> > >>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>> > >>>> > Hello Wrenches, >>>> > >>>> > I have an off-grid install where I was recently red-tagged by the state >>>> > inspector. System is 24 volt with battery, Magnum inverters, some Magnum >>>> > charge controllers, and a Morningstar charge controlle
Re: [RE-wrenches] MLPE Mapping
I use that DIY ladder module-lift that was featured in HomePower many years ago and was just recently thinking of putting some stickers on the top of it so that you clearly see them something to the effect of “Did you scan optos/micros and take wire management photos?” That should serve as a reminder before any mods make it to the roof. Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 > On Jul 8, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Kirk Herander wrote: > > We scan the barcodes with a smart phone app which automatically creates an > excel file for upload(there are many apps to choose from), and number them > also 1,2,3...etc with a sharpie for mounting. If scanned in the right order, > the row number in the excel file with correspond with the physical number and > barcode of the respective MLPE. > It's easy to remember the # sequence in which they were mounted. > I gave up on the Solaredge scanning/mapping app a long time ago. Way too > clunky for me. >> On 7/8/2020 1:58:40 PM, Corey Shalanski wrote: >> >> Wrenches, >> >> After 10+ years of MLPE (microinverters/optimizers) gaining traction in the >> industry, I have noticed one stubborn issue that somehow still haunts us. I >> think we as installers have all been there at some point: laying down the >> final module in an array, high fives all around, time to look at the >> close-out checklist that our pesky operations manager handed to us on our >> way out the door, and then realizing that we forgot to peel off the MLPE >> serial number stickers (or otherwise record them) in order to make a map... >> >> Even when installers forget to record just one serial number, retrieving it >> can be difficult and time-consuming. Raise your hand if you've ever attached >> your cell phone/camera to an extendable pole and slid it under the array in >> hopes of catching that one forgotten label! >> >> In this age of smart devices, I anxiously await the day when MLPE will be >> able to map themselves. But until that day comes, I am wondering if anyone >> has developed or knows of a tried-and-true foolproof method for capturing >> MLPE serial numbers? >> >> -- >> Corey Shalanski >> Jah Light Solar >> Portland, Jamaica >> ___ List sponsored by Redwood >> Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver >> email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or >> update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Onan / AGS
Hello Wrenches, I am in need of the assistance of a seasoned Onan teck or Wrench who can provide me with the correct info for connecting a Magnum Energy AGS to an Onan propane generator, Model# 12GSAA - 6707A. Magnums' current information is out of date in regards to this Onan model. This is an off-grid system. Thanks,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. bennkilb...@hotmail.com 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:This email, including any attachments, contains information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. _ Save up to 84% on Windows 7 until Jan 3—eligible CDN College & University students only. Hurry—buy it now for $39.99! http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691635___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Report-Guidelines for Roof-mounted PV System Installations
Wrenches,Just an FYI. I just had a chat with someone at the National Roofing Contractors Assoc. and they made me aware of this report they just released.http://www.nrca.net/rp/pubstore/details.aspx?c=12&id=526 Apparently this report concludes that PV arrays being installed on a homes' roof should be installed on stand-offs high enough for roofers to work around and under! I got the impression from the person i spoke with that they did not include any PV installers in their resource list for this report. They did assert that is a 'first attempt' at this type of report. I am not endorsing this report in any way, i just want the Wrenches to be aware of it. Cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. bennkilb...@hotmail.com 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:This email, including any attachments, contains information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. _ Lots of fantastic Windows 7 offers, in one convenient place. Get the perfect deal for you now. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691633___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Aluminum Lay-In Lugs
Wrenches, I have heard conflicting information regarding the use of aluminum lay-in lugs for bonding module frames and racking. Would anyone care to comment on the use of aluminum, copper or tin plated lugs. Which ones are best? For what reason should a particular type be avoided? (eg. dissimilar metal, galvanic corrosion). Cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:This email, including any attachments, contains information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. _ Ready. Set. Get a great deal on Windows 7. See fantastic deals on Windows 7 now http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691818___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Outback FM80's connected to Hub
Wrenches, I have just set up an off grid system for a client and am now weighing out the pros and cons of connecting the two FM80's to the Hub or leaving them charging the battery independently. The system consists of an FW1000 with two stacked VFX3648's. The two FM80's are mounted under the inverters and each is connected to it's own array. One is 3.4kW on a roof and the other is 3.6kW on two poles.Outback has commented on this and has offered no convincing reasons for connecting them to the Hub. Any comments or experiences? Cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. www.daystarsolar.cab...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:This email, including any attachments, contains information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. _ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you’re up to on Facebook. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691816___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Outback FM80's connected to Hub
Thanks for your comments. Since there don't seem to be any down-sides, and a few up-sides, it does seem to make good sense to have the two controllers connected to the rest of the system via the Hub. I'll get that done when i install the FlexNet. Cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. www.daystarsolar.cab...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY _ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you’re up to on Facebook. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691816___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Sunteck SolarBlend
Hi All, Just wondering if anyone out there has had any BIPV installs using Sunteck's SolarBlend modules? I have an upcoming project that i will be using these Sunteck modules for and am looking for any issues (good/bad) that anyone else may have experienced with them and would be willing to share. I am particularly curious if the polycarbonate frames have much affect on the install process, aside from not having to bond frames!I have worked with GE's Geko modules in the past and would like to know if the install process is quite similar. Cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. www.daystarsolar.cab...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY _ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Permit Cost/Cost of Installation
Wrenches, I have been hearing differences in opinions/interpretations when it comes to filling out electrical permit applications for grid-tie PV systems and you come to the line that asks for "Cost of Installation (Labor plus Material)", which determines the cost of the permit. I have been including the cost of labor and all material including modules, inverter, racking (the big ticket items) as well as the 'materials' such as wire, conduit, straps, screws, boxes, etc. It has come to my attention that some companies do not include the more expensive 'equipment' (mods, inverter) in the "Cost of Installation", which can reduce the cost of the permit by a couple/few hundred dollars, thus saving the homeowner a bit of money on the permit fee. What are your thoughts or interpretations on this? cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. www.daystarsolar.cab...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY _ IM on the go with Messenger on your phone http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712960___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 3, Issue 227
Thanks Rebecca, I asked my local inspection office if when a contractor is installing a home's back-up generator, if the cost of the generator is included in the cost of the permit. The answer was no. The permit cost is based on the cost of labor and materials to install the generator. I did not specify that the generator was PV, however i do not see what difference that would make. cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. www.daystarsolar.cab...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY > Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 16:31:27 -0600 > From: Rebecca Lundberg > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Permit Cost > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Benn, > > In my area this depends on the city permitting office, and they are very > particular about it. A few cities (Minneapolis, for one) had an > administrative agreement to help support solar by requiring the 'total value > of the project' be that of everything but the modules and inverter, thus > lowering the cost of the permit quite a bit. Since many require me to drop > off the permit application to a receptionist and will not allow me to have > the conversation with someone directly, I usually add a line so I can > include both cost options. My success in having the lower cost used was > about 50/50 a year ago, but almost without exception I am now finding the > permit offices are adding fees and require the full installed cost be used > for the permit. I've even had them require additional mid-job inspections so > they can charge the additional inspection fees. Hopefully as more solar is > installed a more standardized policy/process will be put into place, and we > won't have so many unknowns in the bidding process. > > Keep Shining! > Rebecca Lundberg > Powerfully Green, Minnesota > > Wrenches, > > I have been hearing differences in opinions/interpretations when it comes > > to filling out electrical permit applications for grid-tie PV systems and > > you come to the line that asks for "Cost of Installation > > (Labor plus Material)", which determines the cost of the permit. > > I have been including the cost of labor and all material including modules, > > inverter, racking (the big ticket items) as well as the 'materials' such as > > wire, conduit, straps, screws, boxes, etc. > > It has come to my attention that some companies do not include the more > > expensive 'equipment' (mods, inverter) in the "Cost of Installation", which > > can reduce the cost of the permit by a couple/few hundred dollars, thus > > saving the homeowner a bit of money on the permit fee. > > What are your thoughts or interpretations on this? > > cheers,benn > > > > _ Check your Hotmail from your phone. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712957___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Off-Grid Diesel Generators
Wrenches, Can anyone in the off-grid market, in colder climate regions (i'm at latitude 53) suggest or recommend a reliable diesel generator for off-gird home back-up. It will likely be coupled with two Outback VFX3648's and a 1500 to 2500 amp/hr battery. Any experiences with pairing Lister generators with an auto-start set up? Northern Lights Generators has also come highly recommended, any experiences? Also, for this colder region, i'm looking for pros/cons of having the back-up gen installed indoors (garage or shop) as opposed to outdoors; to protect it somewhat from the extreme cold weather so it will have less trouble starting when it is needed. Thanks in advance.benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:This email, including any attachments, contains information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. _ Hotmail & Messenger are available on your phone. Try now. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9724461___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-Grid Diesel Generators
Steve,Thanks for the feedback. A Northern Lights dealer i spoke with is selling Outback equipment as well. I'll bring this up with him to see if he has seen this issue and how they have dealt with it.cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:This email, including any attachments, contains information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:02:05 -0700 From: shigg...@outbackpower.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-Grid Diesel Generators Benn, The only thing I have heard about NL generators was about 5 years ago there were some issues with a generator in Alaska that used a capacitive coupled regulator that didn’t like the way Outback loaded it down when charging batteries. The only thing that helped was the addition of a $600 dollar tank circuit that helped but didn’t really fix the problem. The customer ended replacing the Regulator with an electronic control that finally fixed the issue. Steve Higgins. Sr Application Engineer. Sub-Saharan Africa Business Dev Mgr. Outback Power Systems. 19009 62nd Ave Ne Arlington Wa 98223 360-618-4313 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of benn kilburn Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 12:36 PM To: Wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Off-Grid Diesel Generators Wrenches, Can anyone in the off-grid market, in colder climate regions (i'm at latitude 53) suggest or recommend a reliable diesel generator for off-gird home back-up. It will likely be coupled with two Outback VFX3648's and a 1500 to 2500 amp/hr battery. Any experiences with pairing Lister generators with an auto-start set up? Northern Lights Generators has also come highly recommended, any experiences? Also, for this colder region, i'm looking for pros/cons of having the back-up gen installed indoors (garage or shop) as opposed to outdoors; to protect it somewhat from the extreme cold weather so it will have less trouble starting when it is needed. Thanks in advance. benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:This email, including any attachments, contains information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. Hotmail & Messenger. Get them on your phone now. MESSAGE CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communication Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. sections 2510-2521, is confidential, and may also be protected by attorney-client or other privilege. If you believe that it has been sent to you in error, please do not read it. If you are not the intended recipient,you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, then delete it. Thank you. _ Hotmail & Messenger are available on your phone. Try now. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9724461___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-Grid Diesel Generators
Daryl,The customer specified that he would like a diesel gen. I haven't tried to sway him towards propane yet, but we are still refining his load calculations and the site will likely not be ready for the install for a few months at least. I also like the fact that there is typically already propane on site and that an energy sucking block heater is not needed to be as reliable for starting in the cold temp when it's needed most.The last off grid system i did (which was my first PV/gen hybrid, i've typically done grid-tie) used propane and the system owner's only beef was the fuel consumption when the thing did run. He had his gen inside an enclosed room in his shop, an Onan 12 GSAA-6707. I just read thru the propane gen thread on this list from last June that was very informative. It seemed that Onan and Kohler were the favorites for propane. Is this still the case or does anyone have other thoughts. I will be pushing the propane option but just incase the customer insists on going the diesel route, are there any other recommendations for diesel? Thanks,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:This email, including any attachments, contains information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. > Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:38:47 -0400 > From: penobscotso...@midmaine.com > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-Grid Diesel Generators > > Ben, >Here in Maine we don't install diesel gennies in off grid applications. > Typically, diesel gennies require a block heater which can use as much > as 1000 watts. Unless this is a tremendously large off grid system it > won't be a good idea to go that way. >Why not just use a propane gennie. They are far more reliable, cleaner > burning, typical off grid homes use propane anyway for cooking, at a > minimum. It also does not require pre heating to start. >Just my two cents. > > Daryl DeJoy > NABCEP Certified PV installer > Penobscot Solar Design > > > > > > > > Wrenches, > > Can anyone in the off-grid market, in colder climate regions (i'm at > > latitude 53) suggest or recommend a reliable diesel generator for off-gird > > home back-up. It will likely be coupled with two Outback VFX3648's and a > > 1500 to 2500 amp/hr battery. Any experiences with pairing Lister > > generators with an auto-start set up? Northern Lights Generators has also > > come highly recommended, any experiences? > > Also, for this colder region, i'm looking for pros/cons of having the > > back-up gen installed indoors (garage or shop) as opposed to outdoors; to > > protect it somewhat from the extreme cold weather so it will have less > > trouble starting when it is needed. > > Thanks in advance.benn > > DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A > > SUNNY DAY > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:This email, including any attachments, contains > > information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, > > which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be > > for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the > > intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or > > use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have > > received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by > > "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies > > of the communication, including attachments. > > > > > > _ > > Hotmail & Messenger are available on your phone. Try now. > > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9724461___ > > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Options & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List-Archive: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out participant bios: > > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive:
Re: [RE-wrenches] OSHA Training for Proper Rigging Tips/Tricks?
Ryan,If it can be arranged, its not a bad idea to have a roof anchor installed with a new roof. Then it can be left for future check-ups and any roof work. If the homeowner is fussy about the aesthetics then tell them you can paint it to match the roof when your done, it will hardly be noticeable, and that it is just a good idea for safety reasons. Adding one to an existing roof is not a big deal and it can be left behind for the same reason, just ensure you seal it diligently. I do have some roof jacks that i had picked up but haven't put to use yet. If your considering a using a chimney in a pinch... keep in mind, a 'rule of thumb' is, don't tie off to something that you wouldn't hang your pick up truck from. Otherwise it will not be able to support you in a free fall. If possible, restrain your rope grab from allowing you to be able to fall over the edge, keeping in mind that if your working off to one side of the roof anchor then you will have to lengthen your reach which will not keep you from going over the edge. As far as training, around here there are several outfits offering fall protection training. They are typically catering mainly to the industrial and commercial construction industry where fall protection is taken pretty seriously. I have taken a few of these courses. If they have training specifically for a residential roofer, i haven't taken it yet. These courses should also be offered thru a 'contractor association'. Just try to see if you can find one that trains for residential homes, if that is what you are doing most of. thanks for bring up this topic, i'd love to hear some other suggestions myself. benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY > From: r...@naturalenergyworks.com > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:19:53 -0700 > Subject: [RE-wrenches] OSHA Training for Proper Rigging Tips/Tricks? > > Does anyone have an opinion about the best sources or approaches for > training proper and efficient fall protection rigging techniques for the > variety of applications we run in to installing PV. Manufacturers, training > organizations, OSHA Contacts, Etc. I have definitely cowboy'ed a few times, > and want to get better informed about the tips and tricks for doing it the > right way. > > Has anyone out there actually installed a roof anchor on a typical > residential roof? Did you leave it there or take it off? > > If not, does a long rope over the house tied to a work truck? > > How about a chimney, legal? > > http://www.osha.gov/Region7/fallprotection/eepocket_eng.pdf Lenny the> > Lanyard - OSHA > > Any suggestions appreciated. > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > _ Hotmail & Messenger. Get them on your phone now. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9724463___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Roof anchors and proper rigging
Rebecca, All Wrenches, I think it would be great to hear some feedback from other roof-dwelling Wrenches; past and present; on this issue. Aside from any obvious electrical hazards from installing PV (which are much easier to control), the actual 'roof work' is the biggest safety issue that needs to be addressed. I recently installed a 4.4 kW system on a 60 degree roof pitch (home was built in '78 with solar thermal/PV in mind) Fortunately the yard allowed for me to get a man-lift in there, so to me that was obviously the best way to go. Otherwise the only other option i considered was maybe those roof jacks i picked up a while back, but haven't tried yet. Does anyone use roof jacks regularly for steeper roofs? I noticed in the recent HP issue that the installers were using the module mounting rails as 'roof jacks"! Convenient maybe, but personally i would be quite hesitant at adding all that extra strain going up and down on the rails and the L-feet roof penetrations. Please enlighten me if i'm being too cautious here. Its not like i've never braced myself on the rails/L-feet before, but i've never solely relied on them as a working platform or for keeping me on the roof. I frequently go on roofs without being tied-off, but you have to be very confident in yourself and your abilities. However it is always good to be reminded that confidence is useless in a free fall, ...slips and trips happen! I install (and use) roof anchors whenever possible. I have shutdown jobs before because i felt that the roof was too steep to work off of safely, and felt that working from ropes would be too time consuming, so i would end up getting a lift. Which also helps drastically reduce wear and tear on the roof material itself. Have you ever noticed how much roof material is left in the gutter after you've spent some time on the roof (mainly from asphalt shingles)? So aside from cowboyin' it, what are some preferred, tried, tested and true methods for safely installing a steep roof PV system? I look forward to sharing some ideas on this topic. cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:This email, including any attachments, contains information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 22:09:54 -0600 From: solarp...@gmail.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roof anchors and proper rigging Rebecca, A great post, with lots of good information and a wonderful attitude. However, there are some small nits that I feel compelled to pick, hopefully without distracting from the value of your message. Clear caulk has little to no UV resistance, and will degrade much quicker than colored. In addition, most caulks are not compatible with the asphalt base of most 3-tab or architectural shingles. Read the label before proceeding. Tying off to a vehicle is a really, really bad idea, for just the reasons you bring up. Rock on! Phil Undercuffler On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 7:17 PM, Rebecca Lundberg wrote: Hi Ryan,A few thoughts on this. One, it is all about safety, and more than any code or compliance concern, you should be concerned about the safety of you and your crew, because that's basically why code is written. I spent 12-hours today and 12-hours yesterday (who needs the gym?!) hanging from a 12:12 pitch roof to install solar modules on one of my job sites, and my roof safety knowledge was put to the test because I had only 6" to work from on the eave and side edges, so my entire roof safety was based on that roof anchor and my gear -- there was no way to work in a safe way without it. Roof anchors are not a big deal -- they are easy to install and easy to remove and caulk with clear caulk so the attachment point is not visible when you are done. How often does the homeowner inspect the roof peak for goodness sakes? The caulk covering a roof anchor hole would never be visible from anywhere, and if installed right a PV system should not require any kind of maintenance outside of a rare module replacement or something. Sometimes the roof pitch is shallow and perhaps a roof anchor per person is not needed, but my job site this week required one roof anchor for each of us -- your life is at stake here, it is important to understand the value and limitations of these products. I have done PV installs on a standing seam metal roof,
Re: [RE-wrenches] direct grid micro inverters?
Greg, not sure about the direct grid inverters, but i do know that the Enphase M190's are rated from -40˚C to +65˚C.Benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:This email, including any attachments, contains information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:53:32 -0800 From: g...@remotepowerinc.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] direct grid micro inverters? Wrenches, I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this company and/or it's products. We have a client looking to put in a bunch of modules. I don't believe the other micro inverter companies warrant their inverters down to -40 so these guys have got my attention. Thanks! Greg NABCEP certified PV installer -- Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. 981 Gold Mine Trail Fairbanks, AK 99712 P. 907.457.4299 U.S.Distributor for Outback Power Systems and other premium power equipment. _ Hotmail & Messenger are available on your phone. Try now. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9724461___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Soladeck Enclosure/Combiner Approved for Canada
Hi Wrenches, I'm looking for a source for the SolaDeck roof mount combiner boxes that are approved for use in Canada. I am doing a roof-top wire entry on an asphalt shingle roof. I have used a flashed masthead to a j-box in the attic before but that will not work in this scenario. Any suggestions? Thanks,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY _ Videos that have everyone talking! Now also in HD! http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9724465___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Corrugated roofing attachments
I have no experience with this product, however i sure could have used them for the last project i did with this type of roof. Question: What if the truss is not directly under the 'bump' in the roof? My understanding is that the roof decking alone is not adequate enuf (pull-out strength) to securely support the array racking, thus the need to lag into the trusses. Unless you have access to the underside of the roof to put in supporting back boards btwn the trusses, which isn't always the case. Other than these brackets, you could try using shallow uni-strut attached to the trusses with spacers to keep the uni-strut from crushing the 'bumps'. benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY y "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 09:49:00 -0700 To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org From: will...@millersolar.com Subject: [RE-wrenches] Corrugated roofing attachments Friends: Have any of you had any experience with the Corrubracket (http://www.s-5.com/clamps/index_1032.cfm)? Where did you purchase them? Are there any better methods for attaching to corrugated roofing? Thanks in advance. William Miller Please note new e-mail address and domain: William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 _ Hotmail & Messenger. Get them on your phone now. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9724463___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Enphase System Labeling
wrenches, i'm having the lamacoid labels made up for an enphase system that i am installing and i am going with a 'rating' label on the load center which states; Solar PV System RatingArray Rating: 660 WDCModule Rating (each): 220WDC also a 'warning parallel system' which will also go on the load center. i am curious what labeling others are going with for these systems. any labeling suggestions for the soladeck j-box on the roof? ...other thoughts...- when more mods/inverters are added the 'rating' label would need to be replaced. any suggestions for a single label that will suit a growing system? -when adding another mod/inverter, should an electrical permit be required each time?(added cost) how bout a building permit?(added cost) how bout a grid interconnect application?(no added cost) i have been chatting with my electrical inspector and utility folks about these micro-inverter systems and they seem fairly enthusiastic about them but the above questions are issues we are still discussing. any comments would be appreciated. thanks,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY _ Win a $10,000 shopping spree from Hotmail! Enter now. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9729711___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase System Labeling
Thanks for sharing that Dana, Are you required by code or the AHJ, for micro-inverter systems, to have an additional AC d/c aside from the branch circuit breaker? (on the roof or other location) For these micro-inverter systems the only labeling required here, by code (CEC), is;84-030 (1) which states... “ A warning notice of an interconnected system shall be installed in a conspicuous place at the supply authority disconnecting means of Rule 84-022 and the supply authority meter location.” 84-022 is generally referring to the load center main breaker. And the utility company puts their own "WARNING: interconnected system" label at the meter. So we don't 'have to' provide any additional info, but i think that providing some is a good idea. As Ray pointed out, too much info can be discouraging. For now, I have opted for these labels on the load center as the only labeling for the system;Code required -- "WARNING Two Power Source Parallel System" and;Optional for info -- "Grid-Connected Solar Electric System Array Rating: 660 WDC Module Rating (each): 220 WDC"the optional one will of course need to be replaced and updated if/when the owner decides to add to his system. cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY From: d...@solarwork.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 14:29:12 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase System Labeling This was our last batch Labeling For Grid-tie Solar Electric System Great Solar Works, Inc., 970-626-5253 KNOPP SIGNS Qty – 2, Color red INTERACTIVE SYSTEM POINT OF INTERCONNECTION Enphase Micro-Inverters [1] per module [17] Total PHOTOVOLTAIC SYSTEM SOURCE PV System Total Watts 3.910 KW Maximum AC Output Operating Current 13.6 Amps AC Operating Voltage 240 Volts For information and service contact: Great Solar Works, Inc., 970-626-5253 Qty – 1, Color red PHOTOVOLTAIC SYSTEM SOURCE PV System Total Watts 3.910 KW Maximum AC Output Operating Current 13.6 Amps AC Operating Voltage 240 Volts For information and service contact: Great Solar Works, Inc., 970-626-5253 Qty – 1, Color red PHOTOVOLTAIC AC SYSTEM UTILITY DISCONNECT WARNING - ELECTRIC SHOCK HAZARD - DONOT TOUCH TERMINALS. TERMINALS ON BOTH THE LINE AND LOAD SIDES MAY BE ENERGIZED IN THE OPEN POSITION. IF A GROUND FAULT IS INDICATED THE NORMALLY GROUNDED CONDUCTORS MAY BE ENERGIZED AND UNGROUNDED For information and service contact: Great Solar Works, Inc., 970-626-5253 Qty -1, Color Yellow PHOTOVOLTAIC SYSTEM CONNECTED THE AC PV DISCONNECT IS LOCATED Next to Meter on South Wall For information and service contact: Great Solar Works, Inc., 970-626-5253 Thanks, Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" _ 30 days of prizes to be won with Hotmail. Enter Here. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9729709___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 30-year old PV module
Great info Joel, thanks! are cell and glass thickness somehow encoded into a modules' spec sheet? or do you have to dig deeper and hope to get a reply from a mfg? benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY From: joel.david...@sbcglobal.net To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 16:42:36 -0700 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 30-year old PV module Hello Drake, (silicon not silicone) Good question about thickness. I recently inspected a circa 1996 solar array with 300 micron thick, 6-inch round cells encapsulated behind 3 mm thick glass and found a few cracked cells and impact fractures. Today, some cells are 260 to 200 microns and even down to 180 to 160 microns thick. I think if the cells are handled properly, and the glass is 4 mm thick, and the module frame is strong enough to minimize twisting, and the modules are handled and installed with care, then cell breakage can be kept to a minimum. It's not how thin the cells are. It is how the cells and modules are encapsulated and handled. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Drake Chamberlin To: RE-wrenches Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 30-year old PV module Thanks for the excellent article. I have two of these old Arcos, and they still put out like new, even though one was (apparently) used in a concentrator, due to the fact that it came bronzed. Do you think the newer modules, with thinner silicone, will last as long? At 10:53 AM 5/21/2010, you wrote: If your prospect asks how long do PV modules last, refer them to this article http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/testing-thirty-year-old-photovoltaic-module Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric OH License 44810 CO License 3773 NABCEP TM Certified PV Installer Office - 740-448-7328 Mobile - 740-856-9648 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org _ 30 days of prizes: Hotmail makes your day easier! Enter Now. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9729710___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger
G'day Wrenches, I'm looking for an additional charger(s) to increase the charging capacity from the back-up 12 kW Onan generator into the 1200 Ah battery. Right now the generator's full potential output is limited by the charging capacity of the two VFX3648's which have a max charge output of 45A each. The idea here is to use the generator to its full charging capacity when it is running, taking in to consideration that the generator will feed any AC loads before charging the battery. Iota and IBE chargers have been suggested. Any comments on these or other makes? Do all generator types (diesel, propane, LNG, gasoline) run more efficiently when fully loaded? or is this only the case with diesel (so i've heard)? thanks,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:This email, including any attachments, contains information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. _ MSN Dating: Find someone special. Start now. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734384___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger
mick, bob, funny you should mention using a magnum as the 'additional charger', the system owner just happens to still have a MS4448 on the wall from his original system (we had upgraded his system to a FW1000 with 2 x VFX3648's back in the fall). i hadn't even thought of using the magnum only as a charger, and the price is right!thanks for the suggestion, i'll look into this as a possibility. Any other comments on my question about generator efficiency when fully loaded vs say half loaded? cheersbenn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY From: reelli...@gmail.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:19:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger Look into the Magnum inverters as 2nd chargers, very good chargers with generators. I have done this many times, in the case of failure of the other inverters for some reason, run wires and be back up and running. I think the 4448 inverter is 60 amps @ 48 volts with an input of 16 or so amps AC. Later, Bob From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of benn kilburn Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 7:22 PM To: Wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger G'day Wrenches, I'm looking for an additional charger(s) to increase the charging capacity from the back-up 12 kW Onan generator into the 1200 Ah battery. Right now the generator's full potential output is limited by the charging capacity of the two VFX3648's which have a max charge output of 45A each. The idea here is to use the generator to its full charging capacity when it is running, taking in to consideration that the generator will feed any AC loads before charging the battery. Iota and IBE chargers have been suggested. Any comments on these or other makes? Do all generator types (diesel, propane, LNG, gasoline) run more efficiently when fully loaded? or is this only the case with diesel (so i've heard)? thanks, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email, including any attachments, contains information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. Enter for a chance to get your town photo on Bing.ca! Submit a Photo Now! _ MSN Dating: Find someone special. Start now. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734384___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] attaching to roof decking - Foam Insulation Install
after a few requests, i have not been getting any feedback from Direct Power regarding pull out specs for their 'easy feet', which i need for my engineer to be able to give me the go-ahead to use them.does anyone care to comment on the fact that this mounting method only attaches to the roof decking and not the rafters? i have always been under the impression that if you only attach your racking to the roof decking, it (the decking) could 'rip right off the roof' in that worst case scenario wind storm! but by anchoring to the trusses, the whole roof structure would/should withstand the wind load. or maybe i was just under the wrong impression and the spiel was that the decking would not hold the screws and the screws would pull out!so am i to understand that by using several (of the right size) screws at each anchor point, the decking (if adequate) will be able to support an array (even if tilted up to 60 deg)??? cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY From: frene...@psln.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:32:23 -0700 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Foam Insulation Install I have also had a great experience using "Easy Feet" from Direct Power. You use four of their screws per foot and Jeff Randall there can give you pull out specs in roof decking, as I recall they match or exceed that of the Lag/rafter combo. Bill Feather River Solar Electric 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530-284-7849/6544 fax - Original Message - From: hol...@sbcglobal.net To: RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Foam Insulation Install Antony, Right on! The Eco-fasten will solve the issue - it's been pull-out tested sans-rafter penetration. Have bought the eco-green fasteners from them, will again. As far as dealing with them - it's a great pleasure to be able to talk to someone with good product knowledge that will take the time to answer stupid questions. Holt E. Kelly Holtek Fireplace & Solar Products 500 Jewell Dr. Waco TX. 76712 254-751-9111 www.holteksolar.com - Original Message - From: Antony Tersol To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 11:33 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Foam Insulation Install Have you looked at EcoFasten mounting. They have a mount that uses 8 screws per attachment, so can theoretically hold without going into the rafters. Then could use a large flashing over that to integrate with the shingles. I think they're an offshoot of AlpenSnowguards in Vermont. We started working with Alpen to source S5 clamps several years ago, and have found them great to work with. We're a West coast company - there were lots of other distributors closer, but Alpen got and kept our business. It's kind of funny - when I call them, I feel like I'm talking with someone in one of those old hardware stores with everything you need right there in bins, and when I call the other guys it seems like someone in a sales office who never handles the product. The EcoFasten crew is similarly helpful, and they have some well thought out products. The name I have in my rollodex is Chris Sterns, at 877-859-3947. http://www.ecofastensolar.com/our-products/eco-fasten Their website is pretty comprehensive, and includes leak and load tests and building code info. Other cool mounting products too. -- Antony Tersol Solex / Applied Solar Energy 831-333-1919 You wrote: For residential install with the spray foam insulation Underside of deck has 12"+ of foam.no way to accurately locate rafter there.hammer and ear also out of the question...don't think any of the stud finders will workbeen told that peeling back shingles to locate rafter is only accurate way...would like to avoid that if possible..any suggestions? Holt E. Kelly Holtek Fireplace & Solar Products 500 Jewell Dr. Waco TX. 76712 254-751-9111 www.holteksolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches
Re: [RE-wrenches] Load Center
phil,by load center, are you referring to the distribution panel?benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:This email, including any attachments, contains information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. > Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:49:44 -0400 > From: p...@pennsun.com > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Load Center > > Haven't run into a Load Center at the point of interconnection before. > Can I back feed a Load Center? > If not, it will be very easy to replace with a Panel. > Thanks, > Phil Theis > PennSun Solar > Ephrata, PA > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > _ Look 'em in the eye: FREE Messenger video chat http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734386___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Arcing from inside Trace DR2412
Wrenches, An off-gridded (system installed by others) called me yesterday with a concern. His system is older and has had mods added over the years. It is up to 7x Siemens SP75 and 1x She'll SQ80P. I believe the inverter is the original. It is a Trace DR2412, and where the concern stems from. He says he has noticed an arc from inside the inverter about 3 of the last 8 times he has fired up his generator (remote start next to inverter). He described seeing the arc thru the vent fins on the top right of the inverter. Is this internal arc typical when a generator connects to the inverter and he just hasn't noticed it before? ...or is his ol Trace toast? Thanks, benn Sent from a 'smart' phone, with touch screen keys. Please excuse shortcuts and typos. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Arcing from inside Trace DR2412
I didn't think the arc was too out of the ordinary. I believe he did describe it as happening after turning on the generator, when the generator 'accepts' the gen. No doubt it would be wise to have the funds set aside for a quick replacement. Larry, your comments did not go unheard and is duly noted. benn Sent from a 'smart' phone, with touch screen keys. Please excuse shortcuts and typos. > On Mar 27, 2014, at 10:05 PM, Steve Higgins wrote: > > Actually the arc is normal, It just depends on where in the waveform is when > the DR switches between Inverter to Generator and how dark the room... > > If the Relay is failing direct power, Inverter sales and Service in Tenn, and > Phantom Power Services (Craig Wilburn) should have spare parts. > > Another trick you do is power down the inverter... And disconnect all cables > Take the top cover off > If it's the older relay without a plastic cover on it you can actually > visually inspect the relay contacts. If the contacts are severely burned > then to prolong life you can use fine grit paper to sand the connections... > but this is the beginning of the end... You better start planning on a > replacement at that time. > > > Feel free to send me a pic of the connections and I can tell you have bad > they are... > > From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > [re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] on behalf of Allan Sindelar > [al...@positiveenergysolar.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 5:34 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Arcing from inside Trace DR2412 > > Benn, > I recently addressed a similar issue on this list in regard to an old SW4024 > that showed a visible arc when the generator was disconnected, and the > general response was that the arcing didn't represent a failure, that it was > fairly routine. > > Ask him when he sees the spark. When the unit sees ac, it waits about 30 > seconds, latches and then ramps up to its maximum current setting. If it > doesn't latch or ramp up a control or relay board is likely bad. The DR is > repairable, and some shops, such as Inverter Service Co., a part of Direct > Power in Albuquerque, can repair it, but with shipping it's not worth fixing > unless it's all he can afford. The repair will cost more than a working DR is > worth, but still likely less than any new replacement. > > Certainly there are far better inverters available. But the fact that the > customer has continued to use the DR suggests that (a) he is probably > satisfied with it otherwise, and (b) is on a tight budget. Therefore my > advice would be to make sure there's a breaker on the AC input (this won't > prevent the arcing but will allow shutoff in case of failure, and set aside > the money to replace the DR if it fails. It may last for years like this. > Allan > > Allan Sindelar > al...@positiveenergysolar.com > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional > New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician > Founder, Positive Energy, Inc. > A Certified B CorporationTM > 3209 Richards Lane > Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 > 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell > www.positiveenergysolar.com > Steve Higgins > Technical Services Manager > M: +1.206.790.5840 > F: +1.902.597.8447 > Surrette Battery Company > Exclusive manufacturer of > > > >> On 3/27/2014 4:36 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote: >> Wrenches, >> An off-gridded (system installed by others) called me yesterday with a >> concern. >> >> His system is older and has had mods added over the years. It is up to 7x >> Siemens SP75 and 1x She'll SQ80P. >> >> I believe the inverter is the original. It is a Trace DR2412, and where the >> concern stems from. >> He says he has noticed an arc from inside the inverter about 3 of the last 8 >> times he has fired up his generator (remote start next to inverter). He >> described seeing the arc thru the vent fins on the top right of the >> inverter. >> >> Is this internal arc typical when a generator connects to the inverter and >> he just hasn't noticed it before? >> >> ...or is his ol Trace toast? >> >> Thanks, >> benn >> Sent from a 'smart' phone, with touch screen keys. Please excuse shortcuts >> and typos. >> ___ >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org &
Re: [RE-wrenches] 600 v pv lead separation
I would have to agree with Brian. That makes sense. William, is it causing any grief or are you simply curious? benn Sent from a 'smart' phone, with touch screen keys. Please excuse shortcuts and typos. > On Apr 7, 2014, at 12:45 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote: > > I don't know, but maybe it's a provision for using lower voltage rated wire > for the batteries? > > Brian > >> On Apr 7, 2014, at 2:17 PM, William Miller wrote: >> >> Colleagues: >> >> I am installing a set of Tristar 600 volt input charge controllers. There >> are separate compartments for PV and battery leads. Reviewing the 2014 NEC, >> I see no requirement that these sets of leads be separated. >> >> I wrote to the manufacturer just now asking the same question. >> >> Have any of you looked into this yet? >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> William Miller >> Miller Solar >> ___ >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashing vs Sealant... again (is sealant code defensible?)
I would have to definitely lean towards using flashings as a default and have been doing so now for several years. Last project i wanted to use flashings on and couldn't was in 2010. I couldn't because it was a 10-13 deg slope with asphalt shingles that were really good quality and made for low slope and resistant to high wind, this meant that each course of shingle was very well adhered to the course below it, to the point that it was next to impossible to lift the shingles to insert a flashing. I tried everything short of using a heat gun or torch to warm them up first. I cannot quote anything, but i believe that there is an issue with voiding roof warranties if you do not flash a penetration. Always make sure that the sealant you choose is compatible with the roof and any other material it will contact. I believe there was an issue years ago where many installers were using a popular "sealant" that (if you read the small print) was not compatible with asphalt shingles. My sealant of choice these days is Henry 925. I would be very interested to see, if anyone would be willing to share (on or off-list), photos of any signs of leaking or leak damage caused by failed roof penetrations. Cheers, Benn On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Troy Harvey wrote: > 1. I'm interest in a poll of installers who are using flashings vs > sealant. Now that the flashing market has evolved, what are you using > today? When did you switch to flashings (if you did). And why not, if you > still prefer sealant. > > 2. Is there a any code defense for sealant systems ? (L-foot sealed down > to shingles). Does anyone know of a scientific shootout between sealants > and flashings? > > Here is my view: The construction industry is slow to evolve. Sealants, > clauks & adhesives are not trusted in general, due to the legacy of code, > and we have a mechanical vs. chemical industry bias. > > There is something about seeing a flashing that says, that is a > "professional job", it must comply with code. And yet, my experience says > I'd trust a 50-year silicone over a flashing that depends on gravity. > Gravity should be dependable right? But anyone in snow country can tell you > in spring, water can go uphill after ice dams form. There are high-rise > buildings that use "structural glazing" which is just glass and silicone. > These systems are now getting to be 50 years old without issue. > > The cost of flashings have come down in the last few years, but so has the > cost per watt of installs. With 50 feet in a typical install around here > that is $150 in feet, lags & silicone. Or $1500 in flashings, and extra > labor. That can be a large part of a bid, and make you more expensive in a > competitive landscape. That is fine, if it adds value... but I personally > don't see the *proven* value, other than the "appearance" of code > defensibility. Anybody have proof? > > thanks, > > Troy Harvey > - > Principal Engineer > Heliocentric > 801-453-9434 > tahar...@heliocentric.org > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
