[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[William]

I agree with this 1000% 

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:59:19 PM UTC-7, Matthew J wrote:
>
> I think GP wants you to be happy on your bike.
>
> And if that means wearing padded shorts, nylon shorts, denim shorts, 
> diapers, or nothing at all, I expect he will concur (well, maybe not on the 
> last one).
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[William]

If I get offended that your offense collection ironically spilled into my 
Irony Hall of Fame, does my offense become a member of your offense 
collection or my IHoF, or BOTH!?  Ouch my brain hurts

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:45:21 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Ironically, yes it does, William. Otherwise it would be less offensive. I 
> can't have an offensive collection getting defensive about it's paranoia of 
> becoming friendly, or worse, PC. Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:37:42 PM UTC-6, William wrote:
>>
>> I hope your offensive collection doesn't spill over into my Irony Hall of 
>> Fame.  
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:21:12 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>>
>>> Patrick. Patrick. Patrick. Sigh. I take deep, personal offense at that. 
>>> I don't care that it proves your point. I have an offensive collection and 
>>> I needed this one. Sardonic grin.
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:02:57 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

 My purpose in my snide remark (not really snide, more ironic) was to 
 say that sometimes we are far, far too earnest, and that we take offense 
 far, far too easily.

 FWIW, I fully agree with Toshi that bike clothing has evolved for its 
 usefulness and that one should wear it as and when it serves its purpose.

 Patrick "Diapers! Onward and Upward!" Moore


 On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:38 PM, William  wrote:

> I suppose I need to go look up the real definition of the word 
> "snide", then.  I always considered "snide" to be an adjective, meaning: 
>
>
>1. Derogatory or mocking in an indirect way: "snide remarks"
>
>
> I also considered "mean" to be on the list of synonyms for "snide".  
>
> I do applaud your double entendre, "thick skinned".  You have a 
> literal thick-skin (butt-callouses) so you don't need bike shorts, and 
> you 
> have a metaphorical thick-skin so you aren't insulted by "derogatory or 
> mocking" statements that aren't directed at you.  Very well played.  
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 12:13:42 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> I think "diaper" is a great name for padded shorts and I don't think 
>> it is mean at all. It's just snide. Of course, I must be thick skinned 
>> since I don't need one for my riding (though I have a few in reserve for 
>> those ever elusive >50 milers.
>>
>> Patrick "diapers forever!" Moore
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:55 AM, William  wrote:
>>
>>>  the worst thing he's ever said about padded bike shorts is his use 
>>> of the term "diaper".  I think that's a very poorly chosen word, and it 
>>> is 
>>> insulting, and unnecessarily mean.  
>>>
>>  
>> -- 
>> *RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED!*
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>>
>> Albuquerque, NM
>>  
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>>>

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[RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[William]

Gabe

If that was "coming down on" me, I didn't take it as such.  

I'm typing this in my work cubicle, with a Wiffle Ball Bat leaning on my 
chair.  I keep it in here just because it's a tactile thing to fiddle with, 
and it makes an impression when I carry it into a meeting.  "Oh crap, Bill 
means business!  Duck!"

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:28:54 PM UTC-7, oldmangabe wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> I would be into Wiffle Inc stuff!   
>
> Sorry to misinterpret your post and come down on you.  I find it tiring to 
> have people frequently creating binaries by pitting Riv vs VO, or BQ vs 
> Riv, Giants vs A's, etc, etc.  I guess I need to chill and not be on the 
> forums for a bit.  
>
> Later,
>
> Gabe
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 1:09:05 PM UTC-7, William wrote:
>>
>> Yes, the funniness had nothing to do with who had them first, and I 
>> didn't intend to imply that anyone copied anyone.  I only found humor in 
>> both establishments choosing to carry them this summer.  Clearly both Grant 
>> and Chris used them as boys, just like countless others have.  Maybe 
>> they'll both carry Wiffle Inc products, which are still miraculously made 
>> in Fairfield, Connecticut.  
>>
>> Bill "Heritage products!" Lindsay
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 1:03:10 PM UTC-7, oldmangabe wrote:
>>>
>>> They are all the rage.  Heritage products man, heritage products.  To be 
>>> "fair", VO had the knives first.  Most likely to mirror Riv's hatchets.  
>>> It's a funny arms race brewing up.  I like Opinel knives, been using one 
>>> for a few years now.  Still sharp, looks good.  The ones Riv have are a bit 
>>> too esoteric to actually be useful knives.  IMHO at least.
>>>
>>> Gabe
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:12:35 AM UTC-7, William wrote:

 I found it pretty funny that both Opinel knives and artisan soaps are 
 now on the "new items" page at Velo-Orange as well.  

 On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:03:43 AM UTC-7, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/Opinel-Knife-p/knife01.htm   - Someone should 
> tell Grant that Opniel will custom-engrave knives 
>
>
> 
> - it would be cool to see Riv-logo knives
>


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Re: [RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Deacon Patrick]

"Ouch my brain hurts"

Sorry. I didn't intend for you to enter my world. Sardonic grin. But yes, 
both sounds right, to answer your other question, but you have to get 
offended twice so we each get an original.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 5:58:23 PM UTC-6, William wrote:
>
> If I get offended that your offense collection ironically spilled into my 
> Irony Hall of Fame, does my offense become a member of your offense 
> collection or my IHoF, or BOTH!?  Ouch my brain hurts
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:45:21 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> Ironically, yes it does, William. Otherwise it would be less offensive. I 
>> can't have an offensive collection getting defensive about it's paranoia of 
>> becoming friendly, or worse, PC. Grin.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:37:42 PM UTC-6, William wrote:
>>>
>>> I hope your offensive collection doesn't spill over into my Irony Hall 
>>> of Fame.  
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:21:12 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:

 Patrick. Patrick. Patrick. Sigh. I take deep, personal offense at that. 
 I don't care that it proves your point. I have an offensive collection and 
 I needed this one. Sardonic grin.

 With abandon,
 Patrick

 On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:02:57 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> My purpose in my snide remark (not really snide, more ironic) was to 
> say that sometimes we are far, far too earnest, and that we take offense 
> far, far too easily.
>
> FWIW, I fully agree with Toshi that bike clothing has evolved for its 
> usefulness and that one should wear it as and when it serves its purpose.
>
> Patrick "Diapers! Onward and Upward!" Moore
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:38 PM, William  wrote:
>
>> I suppose I need to go look up the real definition of the word 
>> "snide", then.  I always considered "snide" to be an adjective, meaning: 
>>
>>
>>1. Derogatory or mocking in an indirect way: "snide remarks"
>>
>>
>> I also considered "mean" to be on the list of synonyms for "snide".  
>>
>> I do applaud your double entendre, "thick skinned".  You have a 
>> literal thick-skin (butt-callouses) so you don't need bike shorts, and 
>> you 
>> have a metaphorical thick-skin so you aren't insulted by "derogatory or 
>> mocking" statements that aren't directed at you.  Very well played.  
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 12:13:42 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> I think "diaper" is a great name for padded shorts and I don't think 
>>> it is mean at all. It's just snide. Of course, I must be thick skinned 
>>> since I don't need one for my riding (though I have a few in reserve 
>>> for 
>>> those ever elusive >50 milers.
>>>
>>> Patrick "diapers forever!" Moore
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:55 AM, William  wrote:
>>>
  the worst thing he's ever said about padded bike shorts is his use 
 of the term "diaper".  I think that's a very poorly chosen word, and 
 it is 
 insulting, and unnecessarily mean.  

>>>  
>>> -- 
>>> *RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED!*
>>> Certified Resume Writer
>>> http://resumespecialties.com/**index.html
>>> patric...@**resumespecialties.com
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/**patrickmooreresumespec/
>>>
>>> Albuquerque, NM
>>>  
>>  -- 
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>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[cyclotourist]

I did it like this, I did it like that
I did it with a whiffle ball bat


On 8/14/13, William  wrote:
> Gabe
>
> If that was "coming down on" me, I didn't take it as such.
>
> I'm typing this in my work cubicle, with a Wiffle Ball Bat leaning on my
> chair.  I keep it in here just because it's a tactile thing to fiddle with,
>
> and it makes an impression when I carry it into a meeting.  "Oh crap, Bill
> means business!  Duck!"
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:28:54 PM UTC-7, oldmangabe wrote:
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> I would be into Wiffle Inc stuff!
>>
>> Sorry to misinterpret your post and come down on you.  I find it tiring to
>>
>> have people frequently creating binaries by pitting Riv vs VO, or BQ vs
>> Riv, Giants vs A's, etc, etc.  I guess I need to chill and not be on the
>> forums for a bit.
>>
>> Later,
>>
>> Gabe
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 1:09:05 PM UTC-7, William wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, the funniness had nothing to do with who had them first, and I
>>> didn't intend to imply that anyone copied anyone.  I only found humor in
>>>
>>> both establishments choosing to carry them this summer.  Clearly both
>>> Grant
>>> and Chris used them as boys, just like countless others have.  Maybe
>>> they'll both carry Wiffle Inc products, which are still miraculously made
>>>
>>> in Fairfield, Connecticut.
>>>
>>> Bill "Heritage products!" Lindsay
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 1:03:10 PM UTC-7, oldmangabe wrote:

 They are all the rage.  Heritage products man, heritage products.  To be

 "fair", VO had the knives first.  Most likely to mirror Riv's hatchets.

 It's a funny arms race brewing up.  I like Opinel knives, been using one

 for a few years now.  Still sharp, looks good.  The ones Riv have are a
 bit
 too esoteric to actually be useful knives.  IMHO at least.

 Gabe

 On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:12:35 AM UTC-7, William wrote:
>
> I found it pretty funny that both Opinel knives and artisan soaps are
> now on the "new items" page at Velo-Orange as well.
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:03:43 AM UTC-7, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>> http://www.rivbike.com/Opinel-Knife-p/knife01.htm   - Someone should
>> tell Grant that Opniel will custom-engrave knives
>>
>>
>> 
>> - it would be cool to see Riv-logo knives
>>
>
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Crazy Idea: Riv National Jamboree

[dougP]

The Twin Cities harbor a number of subversive elements...approach with 
caution.

BUT there is a Rivendell dealer there so you could save half the transport 
hassle by just buying a new bike from him :-).  

dougP

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:31:43 PM UTC-7, Marc Irwin wrote:
>
> That MSP cell has a location advantage.  They are at least close to the 
> center of the country and Minneapolis has really good service from Amtrak, 
> people of both coasts could take a train which has full baggage service 
> which means Amtrak can provide boxes to bring full sized bikes along.   
> That is a major logistical problem for most people traveling.
>
> Marc
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 5:25:45 PM UTC-4, Liesl wrote:
>>
>> There is a Minneapolis/St. Paul sleeper cell noodling up an idea although 
>> our "meetings" have been adhoc at best...
>>
>> Liesl-can-you-tell-i'm-working-too-hard-since-I-haven't-posted-recently?
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[William]

I typed those Beastie Boys lyrics four different times and my internal 
filter said 'don't post'.  I'm glad I didn't and I'm glad you did.  :-)

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 5:15:56 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I did it like this, I did it like that 
> I did it with a whiffle ball bat 
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[cyclotourist]

You all need a suitcase of courage.

Patrick's knife comment was a LOLer.

On 8/14/13, Deacon Patrick  wrote:
> "Ouch my brain hurts"
>
> Sorry. I didn't intend for you to enter my world. Sardonic grin. But yes,
> both sounds right, to answer your other question, but you have to get
> offended twice so we each get an original.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 5:58:23 PM UTC-6, William wrote:
>>
>> If I get offended that your offense collection ironically spilled into my
>>
>> Irony Hall of Fame, does my offense become a member of your offense
>> collection or my IHoF, or BOTH!?  Ouch my brain hurts
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:45:21 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>>
>>> Ironically, yes it does, William. Otherwise it would be less offensive. I
>>>
>>> can't have an offensive collection getting defensive about it's paranoia
>>> of
>>> becoming friendly, or worse, PC. Grin.
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:37:42 PM UTC-6, William wrote:

 I hope your offensive collection doesn't spill over into my Irony Hall
 of Fame.

 On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:21:12 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Patrick. Patrick. Patrick. Sigh. I take deep, personal offense at that.
>
> I don't care that it proves your point. I have an offensive collection
> and
> I needed this one. Sardonic grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:02:57 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> My purpose in my snide remark (not really snide, more ironic) was to
>> say that sometimes we are far, far too earnest, and that we take
>> offense
>> far, far too easily.
>>
>> FWIW, I fully agree with Toshi that bike clothing has evolved for its
>>
>> usefulness and that one should wear it as and when it serves its
>> purpose.
>>
>> Patrick "Diapers! Onward and Upward!" Moore
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:38 PM, William  wrote:
>>
>>> I suppose I need to go look up the real definition of the word
>>> "snide", then.  I always considered "snide" to be an adjective,
>>> meaning:
>>>
>>>
>>>1. Derogatory or mocking in an indirect way: "snide remarks"
>>>
>>>
>>> I also considered "mean" to be on the list of synonyms for "snide".
>>>
>>>
>>> I do applaud your double entendre, "thick skinned".  You have a
>>> literal thick-skin (butt-callouses) so you don't need bike shorts,
>>> and you
>>> have a metaphorical thick-skin so you aren't insulted by "derogatory
>>> or
>>> mocking" statements that aren't directed at you.  Very well played.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 12:13:42 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore
>>> wrote:

 I think "diaper" is a great name for padded shorts and I don't think

 it is mean at all. It's just snide. Of course, I must be thick
 skinned
 since I don't need one for my riding (though I have a few in reserve
 for
 those ever elusive >50 milers.

 Patrick "diapers forever!" Moore


 On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:55 AM, William 
 wrote:

>  the worst thing he's ever said about padded bike shorts is his use
>
> of the term "diaper".  I think that's a very poorly chosen word,
> and it is
> insulting, and unnecessarily mean.
>

 --
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 Albuquerque, NM

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>>
>>
>>
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>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Crazy Idea: Riv National Jamboree

[cyclotourist]

That place and date works well with me, at least on my currently empty
calendar for 2014.



> So far Manny's bid of China Camp (just north of SF), July 19-20, is
> the only specific proposal. So, faute de mieux, I guess we have to
> pick it?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[cyclotourist]

It needed to be said.

RIP MCA

On 8/14/13, William  wrote:
> I typed those Beastie Boys lyrics four different times and my internal
> filter said 'don't post'.  I'm glad I didn't and I'm glad you did.  :-)
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 5:15:56 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> I did it like this, I did it like that
>> I did it with a whiffle ball bat
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
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David

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[RJM]

I wear bike shorts and jerseys...have a few different pairs. Two are Pearl 
Izumi Pro shorts that are awesome. Anykind of club riding where speed is 
high on the list or distances over 30 miles and I am wearing dedicated bike 
shorts. 
 
I also own several pairs of MUSA shorts and wear them with regular undies 
all the time on shorter than 30 mile routes. 
 

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:26:54 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:

> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
> English, etc.
>  
> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
> Walnut Creek.
>  
> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
> squeegee. Ouch!!
>  
> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
> speak.
>  
> Thanks for any advice.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Peter Morgano]

I use my carbon fiber thong, laterally stiff yet vertically compliant. :-)
On Aug 14, 2013 9:10 PM, "RJM"  wrote:

> I wear bike shorts and jerseys...have a few different pairs. Two are Pearl
> Izumi Pro shorts that are awesome. Anykind of club riding where speed is
> high on the list or distances over 30 miles and I am wearing dedicated bike
> shorts.
>
> I also own several pairs of MUSA shorts and wear them with regular undies
> all the time on shorter than 30 mile routes.
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:26:54 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
>
>> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or
>> English, etc.
>>
>> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from
>> Walnut Creek.
>>
>> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without
>> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a
>> squeegee. Ouch!!
>>
>> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a
>> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding
>> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to
>> speak.
>>
>> Thanks for any advice.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Ron Mc]

better than vice-versa

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 8:13:17 PM UTC-5, Peter M wrote:
>
> I use my carbon fiber thong, laterally stiff yet vertically compliant. :-) 
> On Aug 14, 2013 9:10 PM, "RJM" > wrote:
>
>> I wear bike shorts and jerseys...have a few different pairs. Two are 
>> Pearl Izumi Pro shorts that are awesome. Anykind of club riding where speed 
>> is high on the list or distances over 30 miles and I am wearing dedicated 
>> bike shorts. 
>>  
>> I also own several pairs of MUSA shorts and wear them with regular undies 
>> all the time on shorter than 30 mile routes. 
>>  
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:26:54 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
>>
>>> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
>>> English, etc.
>>>  
>>> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
>>> Walnut Creek.
>>>  
>>> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
>>> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
>>> squeegee. Ouch!!
>>>  
>>> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
>>> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
>>> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
>>> speak.
>>>  
>>> Thanks for any advice.
>>>
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[RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[jeffrey kane]

needed indeed ...

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:03:43 PM UTC-4, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/Opinel-Knife-p/knife01.htm   - Someone should tell 
> Grant that Opniel will custom-engrave knives 
>
>
> 
> - it would be cool to see Riv-logo knives
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Crazy Idea: Riv National Jamboree

[allenmichael]

I would likely vote for a.MSP destination. Some of my forebears left Minnesota 
to come to California. I've always been curious to get out there and look 
around.

Michael Allen

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[RBW] Re: Back to Earth 2

[WETH]

I really enjoyed watching the video. Thanks.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Crazy Idea: Riv National Jamboree

[Jay Lonner]

Another vote for China Camp.

Jay Lonner
Bellingham, WA (tickled that it came up as a possible destination, not at 
all surprised that it didn't make the final cut)

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 8:42:09 PM UTC-7, allenmichael wrote:
>
> I would likely vote for a.MSP destination. Some of my forebears left 
> Minnesota to come to California. I've always been curious to get out there 
> and look around.
>
> Michael Allen
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[grant]

I have a growing-old BLUG post in the saved folder that announces we're not 
going to keep selling Opinels. Some guys here checked to see if VO had 'em 
and they came up blank, but --missed it, or something. Opinels are for 
kitchen and picnic use, cutting soft foods and things...and that is a good 
thing, a common need. I think you might wreck one by hard carving wood with 
it. A Victorinox is way sturdier, with a metal body (even if red plastic 
covers), and so on. I wouldn't say one is better than the other---for 
cutting chunks off cheese or salami, they're both great, but I'd get the 
Opinel. For keeping for years and general stuff, a Victorinox.We'll sell 
thru the Opinel knives, and that'll be it. The roundies are neat, I'd say. 
We have a few left, but they're going. 

We'll get some other knife. Mora, or Victorinox inexpensive fixed blade 
maybe, or maybe the old Victorinox we had---but it's like $45 now, which 
takes it out of the 'yeah, I could always use another knife...I don't have 
one in THIS bag' category. 

We have more 'chets coming in, too (arms-race wise?). With our new tiny 
retail downtown store being called Bike Book & Hatchetsorta gotta have 
a selection. It's not a survivalist thing, anything odd lke that (and yes, 
I think that is odd). IN the new place I hope to have a small secret 
throwing range---not throwing the nice hatchets, but some cheapish 
tomahawks. An after hours thing. No beer, no goofing off, just  every 
wanted to throw a tomahawk? OK, now you canif you don't look scary and 
are a bicycle rider, not a half drunk wandering in from the pub across the 
street. There is a population of wheelchair-riders in town. In all towns, 
of course. I have friends in chairs. So, I'm also thinking have an evening 
where wheelchairers could come and throw. It's quite a powerful feeling to 
huck a 'hawk and have it THUNK into a big round of redwood, and I've got 
the redwood. Would need city approval. Hoo body. 

But how to communicate the intention and all without coming off like a bad 
guy...and how to get the word outis the challenge. It would be so easy 
for somebody to twiist it around, and --- if anybody out there has some 
experience or insight into this, pm me. It would not be a "come watch 
wheelchair riders throw tomahawks" kind of thing. It would be private, just 
an opportunity for three or four to come on by and chuck the things and 
watch them stick. It is fun, period. There is no disadvantage to being in a 
chair. If you're lousy and not learning, you're just lousy and not 
learningbut I think 100 percent would be thunking 60 percent after the 
fifteenth try.

Life and everything...way too complicated. Sometimes I think I want nothing 
to do with it.

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:07:15 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Are the Opinel knives better than, say, Victorinox knives? Is it a retro 
> thing or do they have better blades?
>
> If not Opinel or Victorinox, what is a good pocketknife for casual and 
> occasional use, no more than 3" long -- single blade is fine. I'm no 
> connaisseur, obviously, but I'd like to have one. I've got a Victorinox 
> Swiss model but wouldn't mind another one with more bulk devoted to the 
> main blade and less to accessories.
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 2:03 PM, oldmangabe 
> > wrote:
>
>> They are all the rage.  Heritage products man, heritage products.  To be 
>> "fair", VO had the knives first.  Most likely to mirror Riv's hatchets.  
>> It's a funny arms race brewing up.  I like Opinel knives, been using one 
>> for a few years now.  Still sharp, looks good.  The ones Riv have are a bit 
>> too esoteric to actually be useful knives.  IMHO at least.
>>
>> Gabe
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:12:35 AM UTC-7, William wrote:
>>>
>>> I found it pretty funny that both Opinel knives and artisan soaps are 
>>> now on the "new items" page at Velo-Orange as well.  
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:03:43 AM UTC-7, Ron Mc wrote:

 http://www.rivbike.com/Opinel-**Knife-p/knife01.htm
   
  - Someone should tell Grant that Opniel will custom-engrave knives 


 
 - it would be cool to see Riv-logo knives

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>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Crazy Idea: Riv National Jamboree

[Hugh Smitham]

And another for CC.

-Hugh
On Aug 14, 2013 9:40 PM, "Jay Lonner"  wrote:

> Another vote for China Camp.
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA (tickled that it came up as a possible destination, not at
> all surprised that it didn't make the final cut)
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 8:42:09 PM UTC-7, allenmichael wrote:
>>
>> I would likely vote for a.MSP destination. Some of my forebears left
>> Minnesota to come to California. I've always been curious to get out there
>> and look around.
>>
>> Michael Allen
>>
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[RBW] Quiet Camping in Washington County

[Christopher Chen]

Some rough stuff, and camping off the beaten path. Light rail to the Zoo
for some morning descents. Pictures prove it happened:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lumachrome/sets/72157635072307755/

cc

-- 
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[RBW] Re: Big Rivendell Sale Today Only

[Michael]

>
> Looks like a great sale.
>
I really wanted to get those XL MUSA long pant blowout ones. 50% off plus 
10% off. Wow! (plus free shipping if I add a coupla more items).
But I don't know if XL would be the right size. Too bad I am not there to 
try them on.
But they look really nice and comfy for riding. I like those reflective 
strips.
The new black ones look even better.

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[RBW] Re: updated Rambouillet with improved Tektro 559's

[Michael]

>
> I use 700 x 25 Conti gatorskins on my race-ish bike.
>
I really like them.
They are light and fast slicks. They handle great on wet roads.
 
Too bad no 650b sizes from Conti though on these models.
If they came out in 650b x 32 I think I would try them.
 
But I do love the 650b Marathons and Hetres I use so far.

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[RBW] Re: Quiet Camping in Washington County

[hsmitham]

Chris,

I saw these on Flickr already thanks for sharing again. All I have to say 
is damn, damn  you PDX'ers. And why don't we have transporters yet! For god 
sake it's the 21st century already. 

~Hugh

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 10:23:39 PM UTC-7, Christopher Chen wrote:
>
> Some rough stuff, and camping off the beaten path. Light rail to the Zoo 
> for some morning descents. Pictures prove it happened:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lumachrome/sets/72157635072307755/
>
> cc
>
> -- 
> "I want the kind of six pack you can't drink." -- Micah 
>

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Re: [RBW] What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Bruce Herbitter]

I wear BCG ( UnderArmor and Adiddas also make them for more $) wicking
sports briefs (with Bag Balm applied to my skin first) under wool shorts. I
have Joneswares and Ibex (I get them  in good used condition off Ebay and
remove the pads. I have some RBW wool briefs but the crotch seam in them
makes them a no go for long rides. For more relaxed rides, I wear Boosucker
shorts over the wicking sports briefs. I find no pad needed when riding the
Selle Anatomica saddles. (btw, they have introduced a heavier leather
option for riders who felt their saddles were stretching/wearing too
quickly) I got my first one back when RBW was selling them, and have since
added a few more for other bikes.

http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_256315_-1__?color=Black&N=871287361+933739030


On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Michael  wrote:

> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or
> English, etc.
>
> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from
> Walnut Creek.
>
> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without
> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a
> squeegee. Ouch!!
>
> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a
> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding
> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to
> speak.
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> --
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>
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Re: [RBW] What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Eric Platt]

Another one for the REI padded shorts which I'll wear under MUSA clothing.
Like you, can do up to 20 miles in regular shorts but after that a lot of
chafing occurs.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN


On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 4:27 AM, Bruce Herbitter
wrote:

> I wear BCG ( UnderArmor and Adiddas also make them for more $) wicking
> sports briefs (with Bag Balm applied to my skin first) under wool shorts. I
> have Joneswares and Ibex (I get them  in good used condition off Ebay and
> remove the pads. I have some RBW wool briefs but the crotch seam in them
> makes them a no go for long rides. For more relaxed rides, I wear Boosucker
> shorts over the wicking sports briefs. I find no pad needed when riding the
> Selle Anatomica saddles. (btw, they have introduced a heavier leather
> option for riders who felt their saddles were stretching/wearing too
> quickly) I got my first one back when RBW was selling them, and have since
> added a few more for other bikes.
>
>
> http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_256315_-1__?color=Black&N=871287361+933739030
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Michael  wrote:
>
>> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or
>> English, etc.
>>
>> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from
>> Walnut Creek.
>>
>> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without
>> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a
>> squeegee. Ouch!!
>>
>> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a
>> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding
>> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to
>> speak.
>>
>> Thanks for any advice.
>>
>> --
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[RBW] Re: Post Courage Classic Pictures

[Deacon Patrick]

For what it's worth, Hugh, no I don't. I mouth the smoke and that's it. 
Interestingly, I can't smoke regular tobacco, but have no issues with 
organic.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 9:49:43 PM UTC-6, hsmitham wrote:
>
> Deacon,
>
> You didn't inhale though? Right. The engine is aspirated...Big Grin.
>
> ~Hugh
>
> On Friday, August 9, 2013 6:05:02 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> Looks like a great ride, Brian! Well done.
>>
>> Funny you mention passing some carbon folks. I passed a guy climbing a 
>> section of single track. I was fully loaded and he was day riding. He 
>> looked a bit demoralized. But he passed me again at the top as I enjoyed a 
>> last pipe before heading out. It's the engine that matters most on a bike. 
>> Grin.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Friday, August 9, 2013 12:22:46 AM UTC-6, Benedikt wrote:
>>>
>>> I loaded up my Sam and rode it on the Courage Classic again. 
>>> Pictures to prove it! - 
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/neutralbuoyancy/sets/72157634961282335/
>>> This year I even took my saddle bags and my digital SLR camera. This 
>>> brought the weight up to 47 pounds with empty water bottles. And actually 
>>> it wasn't that bad. I even passed some carbon peeps.
>>>
>>> The Courage Classic is a three day/170 mile ride right here in the 
>>> Washington Cascades. Each day climbs over a mountain pass. The Sam was a 
>>> huge hit. There was a small crowd formed around it many times taking 
>>> pictures and asking questions.  
>>>
>>> To the one person in the RBW Owners Brunch who made a donation thank you 
>>> again. If anyone else wants to donate here's the link to my fundraising 
>>> page. There's still time. 
>>> http://www.courageclassic.kintera.org/Brian_Pickart
>>> With your donation you're helping to stop the cycle of child abuse and 
>>> neglect . 100% of your donation goes directly to the charity. The web page 
>>> makes it appear that $25 dollars is the least you can give however ANY 
>>> amount can be entered in the box. $5, $10, $15, $20 dollars all gladly 
>>> accepted. Skip out on your morning latte. Feel good about helping kids and 
>>> a friend reach his fundraising goal!
>>>
>>> - Brian in Seattle
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Deacon Patrick]

I've worn merino wool underwear for years for my running and daily living. 
Works great biking too, though I do not live in a hot and humid climate, 
which I've heard challenges the merino. For shorts, I wear MUSA shorts. 
Rides of 70+ miles/day for multiple days on tour.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 9:26:54 PM UTC-6, Michael wrote:
>
> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
> English, etc.
>  
> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
> Walnut Creek.
>  
> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
> squeegee. Ouch!!
>  
> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
> speak.
>  
> Thanks for any advice.
>

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Kieran J]

I wear MEC (Canada's REI) chamois cycling shorts under an old pair of DC 
skateboarding pants which I've chopped into shorts. Combined with a leather 
saddle like a B17, it's a great working combo.

KJ



On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 11:26:54 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
>
> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
> English, etc.
>  
> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
> Walnut Creek.
>  
> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
> squeegee. Ouch!!
>  
> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
> speak.
>  
> Thanks for any advice.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Post Courage Classic Pictures

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/14/2013 07:58 AM, Deacon Patrick wrote:
For what it's worth, Hugh, no I don't. I mouth the smoke and that's 
it. Interestingly, I can't smoke regular tobacco, but have no issues 
with organic.


Still, an excellent way to maintain your nicotine addiction, and promote 
cancers of the mouth, tongue and throat.





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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Ron Mc]

polyester athletic boxer briefs and MUSA shorts - no sweat worries

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:26:54 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
>
> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
> English, etc.
>  
> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
> Walnut Creek.
>  
> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
> squeegee. Ouch!!
>  
> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
> speak.
>  
> Thanks for any advice.
>

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Ron Mc]

Deac, I wear merino wool boxer briefs in winter (even have some 
knicker-length), but I do live in a hot humid climate, and the BCG or 
Russell Performance polyester is the choice for summer

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 7:32:50 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> polyester athletic boxer briefs and MUSA shorts - no sweat worries
>
> On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:26:54 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
>>
>> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
>> English, etc.
>>  
>> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
>> Walnut Creek.
>>  
>> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
>> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
>> squeegee. Ouch!!
>>  
>> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
>> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
>> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
>> speak.
>>  
>> Thanks for any advice.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Matthew J]

Musa or Musa style shorts.  Base layer either Capilene or merino wool 
depending on weather.

Few years back under heavy peer pressure from the group on a tour I tried 
some high end padded shorts.  I found the damn things uncomfortably clammy. 
 The pads act like a sponge gathering sweat and storing heat.  Definitely 
not for me.

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:26:54 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
>
> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
> English, etc.
>  
> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
> Walnut Creek.
>  
> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
> squeegee. Ouch!!
>  
> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
> speak.
>  
> Thanks for any advice.
>

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Deacon Patrick]

Makes sense, Ron. I've worn merino in dry heat (100+˚F) in the Utah desert 
for rides and runs all day long without issue. And in Colorado when it's 
humid, it's typically 60˚F or less, so it appears it's the combo of hot and 
humid that's merino's downfall.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 6:36:29 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> Deac, I wear merino wool boxer briefs in winter (even have some 
> knicker-length), but I do live in a hot humid climate, and the BCG or 
> Russell Performance polyester is the choice for summer
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 7:32:50 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>> polyester athletic boxer briefs and MUSA shorts - no sweat worries
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:26:54 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
>>>
>>> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
>>> English, etc.
>>>  
>>> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
>>> Walnut Creek.
>>>  
>>> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
>>> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
>>> squeegee. Ouch!!
>>>  
>>> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
>>> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
>>> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
>>> speak.
>>>  
>>> Thanks for any advice.
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Post Courage Classic Pictures

[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks for your concern, Steve. Nicotine addiction is minimal to 
nonexistent. In my 15 years of pipe smoking, I've often gone without a pipe 
for weeks or months (for any number of reasons) and never experienced any 
withdrawal or craving. But then I've never liked "heavy" tobacco. Cancer 
risk is greatly diminished if smoking at proper temperatures (not too hot a 
pipe) and smoking pure tobacco without the hundreds of additives in 
cigarettes. But you are right, it is still a risk.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 6:21:36 AM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> On 08/14/2013 07:58 AM, Deacon Patrick wrote: 
> > For what it's worth, Hugh, no I don't. I mouth the smoke and that's 
> > it. Interestingly, I can't smoke regular tobacco, but have no issues 
> > with organic. 
>
> Still, an excellent way to maintain your nicotine addiction, and promote 
> cancers of the mouth, tongue and throat. 
>
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Bruce]

J & G touring shorts 
(http://www.bicycleclothing.com/Mens-Touring-Shorts.html). The fleece pad 
works great. These cured my saddle sore problem.



On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 11:26:54 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
>
> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
> English, etc.
>  
> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
> Walnut Creek.
>  
> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
> squeegee. Ouch!!
>  
> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
> speak.
>  
> Thanks for any advice.
>

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[RBW] Re: Back to Earth 2

[Ron Mc]

loved the video

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 11:33:35 AM UTC-5, Manuel Acosta wrote:
>
> A couple of months ago, my buddy Jesus Beltran of Zumpango Films and I 
> went on a S240 to Half Moon Bay.
> You can read about it here.
>
> http://flic.kr/s/aHsjGmF74X
>
> Again, Chin did a great job capturing the general feel for the whole ride. 
>
> "Not all great adventures are memorable for the things you want it to be. "
>
> Video proved that Chin filmed it.
> http://vimeo.com/zumpangofilms/backtoearthtwo
>
>
> -Manny "There's another one?!" Acosta
>

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[RBW] Re: Back to Earth 2

[Mike]

Watching that made me think "The bicycle is an absolutely beautiful and 
wonderful machine." I loved the soundtrack. Thanks.

--mike

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[RBW] Re: Back to Earth 2

[Deacon Patrick]

Fantastic, Manny! It does a wonderful job revealing the beauty of 
perseverance and the joy of being out no matter the weather.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:33:35 AM UTC-6, Manuel Acosta wrote:
>
> A couple of months ago, my buddy Jesus Beltran of Zumpango Films and I 
> went on a S240 to Half Moon Bay.
> You can read about it here.
>
> http://flic.kr/s/aHsjGmF74X
>
> Again, Chin did a great job capturing the general feel for the whole ride. 
>
> "Not all great adventures are memorable for the things you want it to be. "
>
> Video proved that Chin filmed it.
> http://vimeo.com/zumpangofilms/backtoearthtwo
>
>
> -Manny "There's another one?!" Acosta
>

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Christian]

As others have said, some of this (a lot?) depends on where you live and 
then the distance you're going to ride.  For a couple of hours Ex Officio 
boxer briefs under almost any shorts work really well for me.  But on 
longer rides, here in Virginia with high humidity, especially in the 
summer, I need something to soak up sweat.  I use Boure shorts and Ibex 
wool shorts.  Boure uses very thin padding; Ibex are a little more padded. 
 I like them both a lot--less for the padding (my B17 is comfortable) and 
more for their ability to manage moisture.  For me, here in VA, wearing 
padded underwear underneath another pair of shorts (MUSAs or whatever) 
sounds as if it'd be too hot.  Maybe not.  I like wearing bike shorts: a 
good pair simply disappear beneath you.  

Good luck! 

Christian  

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 9:08:55 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>
> J & G touring shorts (
> http://www.bicycleclothing.com/Mens-Touring-Shorts.html). The fleece pad 
> works great. These cured my saddle sore problem.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 11:26:54 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
>>
>> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
>> English, etc.
>>  
>> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
>> Walnut Creek.
>>  
>> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
>> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
>> squeegee. Ouch!!
>>  
>> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
>> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
>> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
>> speak.
>>  
>> Thanks for any advice.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Frank]

I'm on the Manny program. I ride in underwear (usually Patagucci lighweight 
briefs or Ibex boxers, both of which are everyday garments) and MUSA 
shorts. All my bikes have Brooks B17 saddles in varied states of wear, 
which work for me and always have. I've done one-day double centuries 
multiple times with this set up with no trouble. Padded shorts are fine, 
and I ride in Ibex bibs from time to time, but on longer rides of over 
forty miles or so they actually seem to be less comfortable.

Assumptions: 1) rider is fit enough for the distance; 2) bike fit is close 
enough to "good"; 3) rider expectations are reasonable (any saddle / shorts 
/ fit / shoes / etc. combo is going to result on some small amount of 
"contact awareness" relative to sitting on a couch for an hour).


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[RBW] What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Frank Quan]

Bib shorts.  I ride with a road club so I buy several pair every year.  I wear 
the new ones on longer (>50 mi) and the older ones on shorter rides.

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[BSWP]

I am very comfortable with RBW's Australian wool "trunk" underwear, and 
some thin baggy nylon outer shorts (MUSA, Royal Robbins, etc.). The MUSA 
wool undies are too thin for my taste, while the Norwegian Devold version 
has a funny cut. The AustrALian wool underwear is absolutely perfect, and I 
can do a 115k ride with plenty energy and saddle comfort to spare. No 
diaper pads for me.

- Andrew, Berkeley

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:26:54 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:
>
> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
> English, etc.
>  
> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
> Walnut Creek.
>  
> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
> squeegee. Ouch!!
>  
> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
> speak.
>  
> Thanks for any advice.
>

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[allenmichael]

My favorites are the Patagonia stand-up shorts with the lightweight Devold 
wool underwear. I've done 90+ miles with a heavy load along the pacific 
coast and never had any trouble. Might not work as well though if it was 
really hot. For me, this is plenty of padding, and it breathes well.

That's riding on a Brooks Flyer with no cutouts.

Michael Allen

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:26:54 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:
>
> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
> English, etc.
>  
> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
> Walnut Creek.
>  
> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
> squeegee. Ouch!!
>  
> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
> speak.
>  
> Thanks for any advice.
>

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[RBW] Re: Crazy Idea: Riv National Jamboree

[allenmichael]

19/20/21 in case a few can stick around another day? 

On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 7:40:24 AM UTC-7, Liesl wrote:
>
> Do you think we could do it?  Plan it out far enough ahead of time (like a 
> year), figure out a place that people from far way and not the whole summer 
> to ride can get to by plane or train or car and figure out how to get their 
> bikes there...a place with good riding country...an organizing group that's 
> local...I just think it would be so utterly fantastic to meet everyone and 
> ride and sit around a campfire.  I used to do this kind of thing back in my 
> motorcycling days and made some very dear friends that i'd only see once a 
> year or two.  Whatcha'll think?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Crazy Idea: Riv National Jamboree

[James Warren]

This is a little bit cool: If the Jamboree gets off the ground in 2014, it will 
coincide with the year of Rivendell's 20th Anniversery.


On Aug 14, 2013, at 8:34 AM, allenmichael wrote:

> 19/20/21 in case a few can stick around another day? 
> 
> On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 7:40:24 AM UTC-7, Liesl wrote:
> Do you think we could do it?  Plan it out far enough ahead of time (like a 
> year), figure out a place that people from far way and not the whole summer 
> to ride can get to by plane or train or car and figure out how to get their 
> bikes there...a place with good riding country...an organizing group that's 
> local...I just think it would be so utterly fantastic to meet everyone and 
> ride and sit around a campfire.  I used to do this kind of thing back in my 
> motorcycling days and made some very dear friends that i'd only see once a 
> year or two.  Whatcha'll think?
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Patrick Moore]

On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 12:15 AM, samh  wrote:

> I am also someone who doesn't understand how anyone can ride more than a
> mile while wearing regular shorts.
>

You develop protective calluses, so it works out fine.

Personally, I hate the feel of tight, clammy lycra, and gave up on cycling
shorts years ago. I think bike fit has a lot more to do with crotchal
comfort than padding. I do have a couple of pairs of wool cycling shorts
that I'd use for longer distances, but so far, I've had no problems with
rides of 3 hours -- my usual max -- even in humid weather (rainy season
here brings humidity to back-east levels).

Perhaps the secret is original edition Flite saddles?

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Albuquerque, NM

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Re: [RBW] Re: Post Courage Classic Pictures

[Hugh Smitham]

Deacon,

I apologize if in my attempt at humor and a dash of concern I have
offended. I for one have lost family members to cancer related to smoking,
you bring up the point about the additives which are principally to enhance
the effects of nicotine...they in affect make the tobacco more addictive so
glad to hear your at the least reducing the risk. There is the notion that
one should enjoy some simple pleasures in life. Best to you.

~Hugh


On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 6:06 AM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> Thanks for your concern, Steve. Nicotine addiction is minimal to
> nonexistent. In my 15 years of pipe smoking, I've often gone without a pipe
> for weeks or months (for any number of reasons) and never experienced any
> withdrawal or craving. But then I've never liked "heavy" tobacco. Cancer
> risk is greatly diminished if smoking at proper temperatures (not too hot a
> pipe) and smoking pure tobacco without the hundreds of additives in
> cigarettes. But you are right, it is still a risk.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 6:21:36 AM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>
>> On 08/14/2013 07:58 AM, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>> > For what it's worth, Hugh, no I don't. I mouth the smoke and that's
>> > it. Interestingly, I can't smoke regular tobacco, but have no issues
>> > with organic.
>>
>> Still, an excellent way to maintain your nicotine addiction, and promote
>> cancers of the mouth, tongue and throat.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Post Courage Classic Pictures

[Deacon Patrick]

Och, Hugh! No offense taken and concern appreciated.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 9:58:09 AM UTC-6, hsmitham wrote:
>
> Deacon,
>
> I apologize if in my attempt at humor and a dash of concern I have 
> offended. I for one have lost family members to cancer related to smoking, 
> you bring up the point about the additives which are principally to enhance 
> the effects of nicotine...they in affect make the tobacco more addictive so 
> glad to hear your at the least reducing the risk. There is the notion that 
> one should enjoy some simple pleasures in life. Best to you.
>
> ~Hugh
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 6:06 AM, Deacon Patrick 
> > wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your concern, Steve. Nicotine addiction is minimal to 
>> nonexistent. In my 15 years of pipe smoking, I've often gone without a pipe 
>> for weeks or months (for any number of reasons) and never experienced any 
>> withdrawal or craving. But then I've never liked "heavy" tobacco. Cancer 
>> risk is greatly diminished if smoking at proper temperatures (not too hot a 
>> pipe) and smoking pure tobacco without the hundreds of additives in 
>> cigarettes. But you are right, it is still a risk.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 6:21:36 AM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>>
>>> On 08/14/2013 07:58 AM, Deacon Patrick wrote: 
>>> > For what it's worth, Hugh, no I don't. I mouth the smoke and that's 
>>> > it. Interestingly, I can't smoke regular tobacco, but have no issues 
>>> > with organic. 
>>>
>>> Still, an excellent way to maintain your nicotine addiction, and promote 
>>> cancers of the mouth, tongue and throat. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Matthew J]

> My favorites are the Patagonia stand-up shorts with the lightweight 
Devold wool underwear. I've done 90+ miles with a heavy load along the 
pacific coast and never had any trouble. Might not work as well > though if 
it was really hot. For me, this is plenty of padding, and it breathes well. 

I wish Patagonia made the stand-ups a little longer as I always neglect to 
put enough sun screen on my knees.  They are definitely great for long 
rides.

Must say the lack of any sort of consensus from the RBW folks on these 
polls is quite refreshing.  Riv/GP fans come from all corners!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Crazy Idea: Riv National Jamboree

[Hugh Smitham]

I think as Manny say's just pick a date and place, everything else will
fall into place. Jim that is cool 20 years. Liesl we should start with
voting of the three locations. I'm still wishing for that fourth location.
Mr Gifford Pinchot has a nice place.

~Hugh




On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 8:48 AM, James Warren wrote:

>
> This is a little bit cool: If the Jamboree gets off the ground in 2014, it
> will coincide with the year of Rivendell's 20th Anniversery.
>
>
> On Aug 14, 2013, at 8:34 AM, allenmichael wrote:
>
> 19/20/21 in case a few can stick around another day?
>
> On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 7:40:24 AM UTC-7, Liesl wrote:
>>
>> Do you think we could do it?  Plan it out far enough ahead of time (like
>> a year), figure out a place that people from far way and not the whole
>> summer to ride can get to by plane or train or car and figure out how to
>> get their bikes there...a place with good riding country...an organizing
>> group that's local...I just think it would be so utterly fantastic to meet
>> everyone and ride and sit around a campfire.  I used to do this kind of
>> thing back in my motorcycling days and made some very dear friends that i'd
>> only see once a year or two.  Whatcha'll think?
>>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Crazy Idea: Riv National Jamboree

[Anne Paulson]

Gifford Pinchot in 2015, I guess, but let's pick a location and time
for next year.

So far Manny's bid of China Camp (just north of SF), July 19-20, is
the only specific proposal. So, faute de mieux, I guess we have to
pick it?

On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Hugh Smitham  wrote:
> I think as Manny say's just pick a date and place, everything else will fall
> into place. Jim that is cool 20 years. Liesl we should start with voting of
> the three locations. I'm still wishing for that fourth location. Mr Gifford
> Pinchot has a nice place.
>
> ~Hugh
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 8:48 AM, James Warren 
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> This is a little bit cool: If the Jamboree gets off the ground in 2014, it
>> will coincide with the year of Rivendell's 20th Anniversery.
>>
>>
>> On Aug 14, 2013, at 8:34 AM, allenmichael wrote:
>>
>> 19/20/21 in case a few can stick around another day?
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 7:40:24 AM UTC-7, Liesl wrote:
>>>
>>> Do you think we could do it?  Plan it out far enough ahead of time (like
>>> a year), figure out a place that people from far way and not the whole
>>> summer to ride can get to by plane or train or car and figure out how to get
>>> their bikes there...a place with good riding country...an organizing group
>>> that's local...I just think it would be so utterly fantastic to meet
>>> everyone and ride and sit around a campfire.  I used to do this kind of
>>> thing back in my motorcycling days and made some very dear friends that i'd
>>> only see once a year or two.  Whatcha'll think?
>>
>>
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It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[RoadieRyan]

It goes against "Doctrine" but I like bib shorts in particular Castelli or 
DeMarchi, I find wool boxer briefs with MUSA shorts fine for rides under 20 
miles but for the longer stuff I go to the bibs.  I hear great things about 
Ibex wool blend bibs and intend to try them some day.  As for Jerseys 5 
years ago it was basically 100% poly blend in my closet and now its nearly 
all Merino wool jerseys/polos/t shirts love stuff and can't really imagine 
wearing a poly jersey again.

Ryan

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:26:54 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:
>
> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
> English, etc.
>  
> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
> Walnut Creek.
>  
> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
> squeegee. Ouch!!
>  
> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
> speak.
>  
> Thanks for any advice.
>

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[SteveD]

When I commute to work (12 miles one-way), I wear my padded woolies under 
my pants (shorts in summer, jeans in winter), and a wool jersey. This way I 
can just throw on a clean shirt when I get to the office. No fuss, no muss. 
I stopped wearing SPDs three years ago, and just use tennis shoes or 
SPD-less touring shoes. Grip Kings work great, and walking around is a lot 
easier than in SPDs. Haven't looked back since. No regrets; I don't miss 
SPDs at all.

-Steve DeMont
Seattle

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[SteveD]

Oh, and on longer rides (more than 40 miles), I wear my wool jersey and 
shorts. Basically, just go for what's comfortable for whatever ride I'm 
doing; sometimes I'm just don't feel like "suiting up" these days.

Steve DeMont
Seatle

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Re: [RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Christopher Chen]

Wool boxer briefs plus swrve shorts. Honestly, I just like the look of
them, and they're comfortable enough.

cc


On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 10:00 AM, SteveD  wrote:

>
>
> When I commute to work (12 miles one-way), I wear my padded woolies under
> my pants (shorts in summer, jeans in winter), and a wool jersey. This way I
> can just throw on a clean shirt when I get to the office. No fuss, no muss.
> I stopped wearing SPDs three years ago, and just use tennis shoes or
> SPD-less touring shoes. Grip Kings work great, and walking around is a lot
> easier than in SPDs. Haven't looked back since. No regrets; I don't miss
> SPDs at all.
>
> -Steve DeMont
> Seattle
>
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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[William]

1.  Regular clothes for commuting.  
2.  Musa knickers over Devold wool undies for all distances over 20 miles 
when riding on a Brooks saddle.  
3.  Rapha bibs for all distances over 20 miles when riding on a skinny 
saddle.  

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:26:54 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:
>
> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
> English, etc.
>  
> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
> Walnut Creek.
>  
> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
> squeegee. Ouch!!
>  
> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
> speak.
>  
> Thanks for any advice.
>

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[William]

"I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
Walnut Creek."

I think Grant is a LOT less "anti" than people seem to think.  What's the 
worst thing Grant has ever said about padded bike shorts?  In my 
experience, the worst thing he's ever said about padded bike shorts is his 
use of the term "diaper".  I think that's a very poorly chosen word, and it 
is insulting, and unnecessarily mean.  Mark Abele wears regular padded 
bicycle shorts and I would bet a dollar that Grant does not insult Mark or 
Mark's clothing when he rolls in.  "Hey Mark!  Nice DIAPER!"  I just don't 
see that happening.  

Grant's true stance, as I understand it, is not "anti-padded-shorts". 
 Grant is "anti-the-industry-telling-you-that-you-MUST-wear-padded-shorts". 
 Grant emphatically tells you to wear what works for you.  Grant tells you 
to wear what you've got.  Grant tells you that you don't have to think that 
you need to wear a bicycle uniform to operate a bicycle.  If you want to 
wear bike clothes, go ahead.  Just don't feel like you have to apologize to 
anyone if you want to ride your bike in Birkenstocks and board shorts.  You 
don't need a walking uniform, so you don't need a bicycle uniform.  First 
and foremost it is YOUR choice, and don't let anyone choose for you. 
 That's what Grant says.  

Maybe I'm wrong about it, but on this topic I think many people 
misunderstand Grant's position.  I believe that misunderstanding is part of 
what earns Grant the largely unfair reputation as a retro-grouch.  He's not 
the least grouchy man I've met, but he's definitely on the "less grouchy" 
end of the spectrum, in my book.  Stubborn on many things, sure. 

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:26:54 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:
>
> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
> English, etc.
>  
> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
> Walnut Creek.
>  
> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
> squeegee. Ouch!!
>  
> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
> speak.
>  
> Thanks for any advice.
>

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[RBW] Opniel knives

[Ron Mc]

http://www.rivbike.com/Opinel-Knife-p/knife01.htm   - Someone should tell 
Grant that Opniel will custom-engrave knives 


- it would be cool to see Riv-logo knives

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[RBW] FS: 59c A. Homer Hilsen

[PeterG]

Lowered price on AHH. Frame has less than 100 miles on it. Bought this bike 
as a go fast build to complement my other AHH but went another way. 
Excellent condition. Fenders are off another Hilsen and Brooks has some 
scrapes on it, but everything else is either new or almost new with little 
wear. New price is $2699.9 speed Dura Ace triple bar end shifters and 
everything else is a normal Rivendell build. I do have some Schwalbe 47c 
tires if you'd rather have them installedThanks ...as usual, contact me 
off-line.PeterG





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[RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[William]

I found it pretty funny that both Opinel knives and artisan soaps are now 
on the "new items" page at Velo-Orange as well.  

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:03:43 AM UTC-7, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/Opinel-Knife-p/knife01.htm   - Someone should tell 
> Grant that Opniel will custom-engrave knives 
>
>
> 
> - it would be cool to see Riv-logo knives
>

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Mike Schiller]

well said Bill.  While baggy shorts and Exofficio briefs work well for me 
on more casual rides or tours, a long warm weather ride where I'm going at 
a good pace for me means good quality lycra shorts. I do prefer a thin pad 
and simple black color. Winter is wool knickers from Ibex or Ground Effect 
from NZ.

For baggies, I do like climbing shorts with their stretchy fabric like the 
Kuhl Renegades or OR Contour's. The Riv baggies are too baggy for my taste 
and don't stretch.

~mike
Carlsbad Ca.



On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 10:55:01 AM UTC-7, William wrote:
>
> "I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
> Walnut Creek."
>
> I think Grant is a LOT less "anti" than people seem to think.  What's the 
> worst thing Grant has ever said about padded bike shorts?  In my 
> experience, the worst thing he's ever said about padded bike shorts is his 
> use of the term "diaper".  I think that's a very poorly chosen word, and it 
> is insulting, and unnecessarily mean.  Mark Abele wears regular padded 
> bicycle shorts and I would bet a dollar that Grant does not insult Mark or 
> Mark's clothing when he rolls in.  "Hey Mark!  Nice DIAPER!"  I just don't 
> see that happening.  
>
> Grant's true stance, as I understand it, is not "anti-padded-shorts". 
>  Grant is "anti-the-industry-telling-you-that-you-MUST-wear-padded-shorts". 
>  Grant emphatically tells you to wear what works for you.  Grant tells you 
> to wear what you've got.  Grant tells you that you don't have to think that 
> you need to wear a bicycle uniform to operate a bicycle.  If you want to 
> wear bike clothes, go ahead.  Just don't feel like you have to apologize to 
> anyone if you want to ride your bike in Birkenstocks and board shorts.  You 
> don't need a walking uniform, so you don't need a bicycle uniform.  First 
> and foremost it is YOUR choice, and don't let anyone choose for you. 
>  That's what Grant says.  
>
> Maybe I'm wrong about it, but on this topic I think many people 
> misunderstand Grant's position.  I believe that misunderstanding is part of 
> what earns Grant the largely unfair reputation as a retro-grouch.  He's not 
> the least grouchy man I've met, but he's definitely on the "less grouchy" 
> end of the spectrum, in my book.  Stubborn on many things, sure. 
>
> On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:26:54 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:
>>
>> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
>> English, etc.
>>  
>> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
>> Walnut Creek.
>>  
>> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
>> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
>> squeegee. Ouch!!
>>  
>> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
>> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
>> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
>> speak.
>>  
>> Thanks for any advice.
>>
>

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[RBW] Big Rivendell Sale Today Only

[Dave Rivbike]

Shout it on the rooftops. Share with your friends. 

All lights, all web specials, new grey/blue shorts, Olive SaddleSack 
Mediums, Grip Kings, and Sage tops all 10% today only. Also, free shipping 
on orders over $50 (continental US, not oversized) today. 

It all ends at midnight. 

Big Sam bill due now, so every order helps. Thanks!

Dave

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[RBW] Re: Back to Earth 2

[RoadieRyan]

Very nice loved the trip by bike and the union suit ;-) makes me realize I 
need to S24O soon !

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 9:33:35 AM UTC-7, Manuel Acosta wrote:
>
> A couple of months ago, my buddy Jesus Beltran of Zumpango Films and I 
> went on a S240 to Half Moon Bay.
> You can read about it here.
>
> http://flic.kr/s/aHsjGmF74X
>
> Again, Chin did a great job capturing the general feel for the whole ride. 
>
> "Not all great adventures are memorable for the things you want it to be. "
>
> Video proved that Chin filmed it.
> http://vimeo.com/zumpangofilms/backtoearthtwo
>
>
> -Manny "There's another one?!" Acosta
>

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Lynne Fitz]

Umm.  Cycling shorts?  Maybe for a few errands from home or work that are 
short (<5 mi), I'll wear whatever I have on, but anything over that - 
bike-specific bottoms.  I have a princess and the pea undercarriage.

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:26:54 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:
>
> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
> English, etc.
>  
> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
> Walnut Creek.
>  
> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
> squeegee. Ouch!!
>  
> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
> speak.
>  
> Thanks for any advice.
>

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[shawn]

When I ride my Atlantis I wear cotton briefs and regular gym shorts from 
Target. This combo has served me well on tour. I would like to try some 
wool briefs. 

When I ride my Roadeo I use padded underwear under my Target shorts. 

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 11:26:54 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
>
> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
> English, etc.
>  
> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
> Walnut Creek.
>  
> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
> squeegee. Ouch!!
>  
> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
> speak.
>  
> Thanks for any advice.
>

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[RBW] Re: 56 cm Sam Hillborne or wait for the 58 cm?

[Johnny Alien]

10% off that Sam special 56 today. I say go for it. That is a screaming deal. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Patrick Moore]

I think "diaper" is a great name for padded shorts and I don't think it is
mean at all. It's just snide. Of course, I must be thick skinned since I
don't need one for my riding (though I have a few in reserve for those ever
elusive >50 milers.

Patrick "diapers forever!" Moore


On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:55 AM, William  wrote:

>  the worst thing he's ever said about padded bike shorts is his use of the
> term "diaper".  I think that's a very poorly chosen word, and it is
> insulting, and unnecessarily mean.
>

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Albuquerque, NM

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Re: [RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I agree.  There ain't nothing wrong with cyclin' shorts for the 100 mile
ride.  If you don't like the look, then you can get the baggy
mountain-biking type or wear regular shorts over them.

I generally go bib-shorts or bib-knickers on 150-mile+ rides.

--Perhaps there is some skin strengthening with callouses (to avoid
chafing), but in general, the sit bones get acclimated, and that has
nothing to do with callouses (in my experience). I don't really know why,
but the bones don't hurt anymore after riding for long long times.  I
generally won't get chafing issues on rides under 50 miles, so I can pretty
much wear normal/comfortable clothing of any sort for these sorts of
rides...

As an aside, I went horseback riding the other day for the second time in
my life and my wife was suffering in her sit bones for days (she gets that
from biking long distances too), but I didn't notice a thing and I wasn't
wearing diapers :).

I agree with Bill and Grant that the preconceived notion that you have to
wear "diapers" to cycle is ludicrous and a disservice to the cycling
community.

However, the cycling clothing was developed and serves a function for
certain rides, and snubbing that because the pros use them or you don't
like the look may result in missing out on comfort (i.e. you are using the
clothing because it serves a purpose--not because it conforms to any group
of people or riders).

Toshi in Oakland, CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[William]

I suppose I need to go look up the real definition of the word "snide", 
then.  I always considered "snide" to be an adjective, meaning:


   1. Derogatory or mocking in an indirect way: "snide remarks"


I also considered "mean" to be on the list of synonyms for "snide".  

I do applaud your double entendre, "thick skinned".  You have a literal 
thick-skin (butt-callouses) so you don't need bike shorts, and you have a 
metaphorical thick-skin so you aren't insulted by "derogatory or mocking" 
statements that aren't directed at you.  Very well played.  

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 12:13:42 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I think "diaper" is a great name for padded shorts and I don't think it is 
> mean at all. It's just snide. Of course, I must be thick skinned since I 
> don't need one for my riding (though I have a few in reserve for those ever 
> elusive >50 milers.
>
> Patrick "diapers forever!" Moore
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:55 AM, William 
> > wrote:
>
>>  the worst thing he's ever said about padded bike shorts is his use of 
>> the term "diaper".  I think that's a very poorly chosen word, and it is 
>> insulting, and unnecessarily mean.  
>>
>  
> -- 
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> http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
> patric...@resumespecialties.com 
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>
> Albuquerque, NM
>  

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[RBW] FS wool cycling shorts size M / L

[J L]

With the popularity of the "what do we rivs wear" thread I thought I would
offer these up to the group before putting them on the auction site.

Icebreaker Merino Wool / Lycra padded cycling shorts Size L
plus

Outdoor Research quick dry baggy shorts Size L

Both Black - the OR pair have been worn a couple times but the Icebreaker
shorts are new with tags intact.

These should both fit someone with a waist in the 34-36 inch range.

$40 shipped for the pair.

Thanks - offlist to buy
Jason
SF,CA

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[oldmangabe]

Michael,

I like Boure synthetic bibs for long rides.  They have thinner pad and good 
placement.  They have worked best for me on warm (60 degree plus) rides. 
The Ibex bibs work well in rain or cooler temp long rides.  The Ibex have a 
thicker and larger pad than the Boure bibs.  The wool bibs wear out 
quicker, maybe 5000 miles or so of hard riding.  I have had horrible luck 
with Woolistic shorts and bibs, they consistently wear out after maybe 
1000-2000 miles.  Not worth the cost in my book.  I live and ride in 
Northern California and Oregon. My bars are usually a good one to two 
inches below my saddle so these might not work as well for upright riding.  

Gabe

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:26:54 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:
>
> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
> English, etc.
>  
> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
> Walnut Creek.
>  
> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
> squeegee. Ouch!!
>  
> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
> speak.
>  
> Thanks for any advice.
>

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[RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[oldmangabe]

They are all the rage.  Heritage products man, heritage products.  To be 
"fair", VO had the knives first.  Most likely to mirror Riv's hatchets.  
It's a funny arms race brewing up.  I like Opinel knives, been using one 
for a few years now.  Still sharp, looks good.  The ones Riv have are a bit 
too esoteric to actually be useful knives.  IMHO at least.

Gabe

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:12:35 AM UTC-7, William wrote:
>
> I found it pretty funny that both Opinel knives and artisan soaps are now 
> on the "new items" page at Velo-Orange as well.  
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:03:43 AM UTC-7, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>> http://www.rivbike.com/Opinel-Knife-p/knife01.htm   - Someone should 
>> tell Grant that Opniel will custom-engrave knives 
>>
>>
>> 
>> - it would be cool to see Riv-logo knives
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Ron Mc]

I think the whole diaper thing - snide or not - goes with gel padded 
Lightweight saddles and chafing cremes.  I personally believe the more you 
wear, the worse the problem becomes - it becomes a sweaty padded mess.  I 
think most on this forum have reached a similar conclusion about saddle 
choice and comfort.  Weight weenies don't ride Brooks.  My buddy and his 
wife are going through the time in the saddle ordeal with her - she wears 
padded pants but isn't made the brunt of diaper jokes.  Part of the 
problem, he is making her ride a Bertoud Cork Marie Blanque because he 
likes the matching saddle pair on their tandem.  I think he should move her 
much wider B67S to the tandem.  But my buddy is hoping she will outgrow 
this phase in some manner.  Ultimately, time in the saddle becomes its own 
solution, so Patrick is on to something about calloused sit bones.  

Gabe
>
> On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:26:54 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:
>>
>> What do you Rivendell riders wear on long rides? Centuries, metric or 
>> English, etc.
>>  
>> I know there is a general anti-padded-shorts vibe that emanates from 
>> Walnut Creek.
>>  
>> But I just cannot go more than 20 miles in regular pants without 
>> sweat-soaked undergarments just squeaking away against my flesh like a 
>> squeegee. Ouch!!
>>  
>> I use LBS padded shorts for long rides but looking for something with a 
>> thicker pad and maybe bigger in the back for my upright Alba riding 
>> posture, since that puts more sitting area on the rear of the rear, so to 
>> speak.
>>  
>> Thanks for any advice.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[William]

Yes, the funniness had nothing to do with who had them first, and I didn't 
intend to imply that anyone copied anyone.  I only found humor in both 
establishments choosing to carry them this summer.  Clearly both Grant and 
Chris used them as boys, just like countless others have.  Maybe they'll 
both carry Wiffle Inc products, which are still miraculously made in 
Fairfield, Connecticut.  

Bill "Heritage products!" Lindsay

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 1:03:10 PM UTC-7, oldmangabe wrote:
>
> They are all the rage.  Heritage products man, heritage products.  To be 
> "fair", VO had the knives first.  Most likely to mirror Riv's hatchets.  
> It's a funny arms race brewing up.  I like Opinel knives, been using one 
> for a few years now.  Still sharp, looks good.  The ones Riv have are a bit 
> too esoteric to actually be useful knives.  IMHO at least.
>
> Gabe
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:12:35 AM UTC-7, William wrote:
>>
>> I found it pretty funny that both Opinel knives and artisan soaps are now 
>> on the "new items" page at Velo-Orange as well.  
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:03:43 AM UTC-7, Ron Mc wrote:
>>>
>>> http://www.rivbike.com/Opinel-Knife-p/knife01.htm   - Someone should 
>>> tell Grant that Opniel will custom-engrave knives 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> - it would be cool to see Riv-logo knives
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[Edwin W]

Soaps
Hatchets
Pocket knives 
Leather 
Wool
Twine
Steel
What middle aged white dudes like. 

Am I middle aged already?

Young (for this demographic) at "just" 40,

Edwin

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[RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[Mike Schiller]

They're certainly useful for camping. I've had a No. 8 in my backpacking 
kit for 20+ years. Great for food prep and misc. needs.  

~mike

 
>

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[RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[Deacon Patrick]

Though soaps I have no use for, so clearly still some Scots in there! Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:44:36 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Am I white already? I thought I was Scottish.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:17:25 PM UTC-6, Edwin W wrote:
>>
>> Soaps
>> Hatchets
>> Pocket knives 
>> Leather 
>> Wool
>> Twine
>> Steel
>> What middle aged white dudes like. 
>>
>> Am I middle aged already?
>>
>> Young (for this demographic) at "just" 40,
>>
>> Edwin
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[Deacon Patrick]

Am I white already? I thought I was Scottish.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:17:25 PM UTC-6, Edwin W wrote:
>
> Soaps
> Hatchets
> Pocket knives 
> Leather 
> Wool
> Twine
> Steel
> What middle aged white dudes like. 
>
> Am I middle aged already?
>
> Young (for this demographic) at "just" 40,
>
> Edwin
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Patrick Moore]

My purpose in my snide remark (not really snide, more ironic) was to say
that sometimes we are far, far too earnest, and that we take offense far,
far too easily.

FWIW, I fully agree with Toshi that bike clothing has evolved for its
usefulness and that one should wear it as and when it serves its purpose.

Patrick "Diapers! Onward and Upward!" Moore


On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:38 PM, William  wrote:

> I suppose I need to go look up the real definition of the word "snide",
> then.  I always considered "snide" to be an adjective, meaning:
>
>
>1. Derogatory or mocking in an indirect way: "snide remarks"
>
>
> I also considered "mean" to be on the list of synonyms for "snide".
>
> I do applaud your double entendre, "thick skinned".  You have a literal
> thick-skin (butt-callouses) so you don't need bike shorts, and you have a
> metaphorical thick-skin so you aren't insulted by "derogatory or mocking"
> statements that aren't directed at you.  Very well played.
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 12:13:42 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> I think "diaper" is a great name for padded shorts and I don't think it
>> is mean at all. It's just snide. Of course, I must be thick skinned since I
>> don't need one for my riding (though I have a few in reserve for those ever
>> elusive >50 milers.
>>
>> Patrick "diapers forever!" Moore
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:55 AM, William  wrote:
>>
>>>  the worst thing he's ever said about padded bike shorts is his use of
>>> the term "diaper".  I think that's a very poorly chosen word, and it is
>>> insulting, and unnecessarily mean.
>>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[erik jensen]

jortz


On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> My purpose in my snide remark (not really snide, more ironic) was to say
> that sometimes we are far, far too earnest, and that we take offense far,
> far too easily.
>
> FWIW, I fully agree with Toshi that bike clothing has evolved for its
> usefulness and that one should wear it as and when it serves its purpose.
>
> Patrick "Diapers! Onward and Upward!" Moore
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:38 PM, William  wrote:
>
>> I suppose I need to go look up the real definition of the word "snide",
>> then.  I always considered "snide" to be an adjective, meaning:
>>
>>
>>1. Derogatory or mocking in an indirect way: "snide remarks"
>>
>>
>> I also considered "mean" to be on the list of synonyms for "snide".
>>
>> I do applaud your double entendre, "thick skinned".  You have a literal
>> thick-skin (butt-callouses) so you don't need bike shorts, and you have a
>> metaphorical thick-skin so you aren't insulted by "derogatory or mocking"
>> statements that aren't directed at you.  Very well played.
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 12:13:42 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> I think "diaper" is a great name for padded shorts and I don't think it
>>> is mean at all. It's just snide. Of course, I must be thick skinned since I
>>> don't need one for my riding (though I have a few in reserve for those ever
>>> elusive >50 milers.
>>>
>>> Patrick "diapers forever!" Moore
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:55 AM, William  wrote:
>>>
  the worst thing he's ever said about padded bike shorts is his use of
 the term "diaper".  I think that's a very poorly chosen word, and it is
 insulting, and unnecessarily mean.

>>>
>>> --
>>> *RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED!*
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>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[Patrick Moore]

Are the Opinel knives better than, say, Victorinox knives? Is it a retro
thing or do they have better blades?

If not Opinel or Victorinox, what is a good pocketknife for casual and
occasional use, no more than 3" long -- single blade is fine. I'm no
connaisseur, obviously, but I'd like to have one. I've got a Victorinox
Swiss model but wouldn't mind another one with more bulk devoted to the
main blade and less to accessories.


On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 2:03 PM, oldmangabe  wrote:

> They are all the rage.  Heritage products man, heritage products.  To be
> "fair", VO had the knives first.  Most likely to mirror Riv's hatchets.
> It's a funny arms race brewing up.  I like Opinel knives, been using one
> for a few years now.  Still sharp, looks good.  The ones Riv have are a bit
> too esoteric to actually be useful knives.  IMHO at least.
>
> Gabe
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:12:35 AM UTC-7, William wrote:
>>
>> I found it pretty funny that both Opinel knives and artisan soaps are now
>> on the "new items" page at Velo-Orange as well.
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:03:43 AM UTC-7, Ron Mc wrote:
>>>
>>> http://www.rivbike.com/Opinel-**Knife-p/knife01.htm
>>>  - Someone should tell Grant that Opniel will custom-engrave knives
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> - it would be cool to see Riv-logo knives
>>>
>>  --
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[RBW] Re: Big Rivendell Sale Today Only

[thalasin]

Wonderful!  Placed my order late last evening so as not to miss my MUSA 
shorts window.  No discount, no free shipping.  Fiddlesticks.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Crazy Idea: Riv National Jamboree

[Mike Williams]

Hey Anne and group,I guess I was confusing in my post.  I was just putting 
in a good word for the midwest.   I live in San Fran and would have no way of 
hosting in the midwest.   -Mike

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 13, 2013, at 9:36 AM, Anne Paulson  wrote:

> So we now, if I have gone through the messages correctly, have three bids:
> 
> Jim Thill volunteers to host a gathering in late September in northern
> Wisconsin.
> 
> Michael Williams volunteers to host a gathering in Minneapolis, no
> time specified
> 
> Manny Acosta volunteers to host in at China Camp, which is just north
> of San Francisco July 13-14. (I volunteer to help with organizing if
> this is the winner. Someone else, whose name I forget, also volunteer
> to help with organizing.)
> 
> Let's discuss these three bids and pick one.
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 9:17 AM, allenmichael  wrote:
>> I'm offering to assist with Manny's bay area bid.
>> 
>> Michael Allen
>> 
>> On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 7:40:24 AM UTC-7, Liesl wrote:
>>> 
>>> Do you think we could do it?  Plan it out far enough ahead of time (like a
>>> year), figure out a place that people from far way and not the whole summer
>>> to ride can get to by plane or train or car and figure out how to get their
>>> bikes there...a place with good riding country...an organizing group that's
>>> local...I just think it would be so utterly fantastic to meet everyone and
>>> ride and sit around a campfire.  I used to do this kind of thing back in my
>>> motorcycling days and made some very dear friends that i'd only see once a
>>> year or two.  Whatcha'll think?
>> 
>> --
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> 
> 
> -- 
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> 
> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Mike Williams]

I second the jorts!!

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 14, 2013, at 2:05 PM, erik jensen  wrote:

> jortz
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>> My purpose in my snide remark (not really snide, more ironic) was to say 
>> that sometimes we are far, far too earnest, and that we take offense far, 
>> far too easily.
>> 
>> FWIW, I fully agree with Toshi that bike clothing has evolved for its 
>> usefulness and that one should wear it as and when it serves its purpose.
>> 
>> Patrick "Diapers! Onward and Upward!" Moore
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:38 PM, William  wrote:
>>> I suppose I need to go look up the real definition of the word "snide", 
>>> then.  I always considered "snide" to be an adjective, meaning:
>>> 
>>> Derogatory or mocking in an indirect way: "snide remarks"
>>> 
>>> I also considered "mean" to be on the list of synonyms for "snide".  
>>> 
>>> I do applaud your double entendre, "thick skinned".  You have a literal 
>>> thick-skin (butt-callouses) so you don't need bike shorts, and you have a 
>>> metaphorical thick-skin so you aren't insulted by "derogatory or mocking" 
>>> statements that aren't directed at you.  Very well played.  
>>> 
>>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 12:13:42 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
 
 I think "diaper" is a great name for padded shorts and I don't think it is 
 mean at all. It's just snide. Of course, I must be thick skinned since I 
 don't need one for my riding (though I have a few in reserve for those 
 ever elusive >50 milers.
 
 Patrick "diapers forever!" Moore
 
 
 On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:55 AM, William  wrote:
>  the worst thing he's ever said about padded bike shorts is his use of 
> the term "diaper".  I think that's a very poorly chosen word, and it is 
> insulting, and unnecessarily mean.  
  
 -- 
 RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED!
 Certified Resume Writer
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 patric...@resumespecialties.com
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>>> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[Deacon Patrick]

Carbon blades are the only reason to get Opinel knives that I can see, 
other than good value for a stainless blade. Carbon holds a sharper edge 
than stainless, but requires actual care (oiling as needed) to prevent rust.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:07:15 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Are the Opinel knives better than, say, Victorinox knives? Is it a retro 
> thing or do they have better blades?
>
> If not Opinel or Victorinox, what is a good pocketknife for casual and 
> occasional use, no more than 3" long -- single blade is fine. I'm no 
> connaisseur, obviously, but I'd like to have one. I've got a Victorinox 
> Swiss model but wouldn't mind another one with more bulk devoted to the 
> main blade and less to accessories.
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 2:03 PM, oldmangabe 
> > wrote:
>
>> They are all the rage.  Heritage products man, heritage products.  To be 
>> "fair", VO had the knives first.  Most likely to mirror Riv's hatchets.  
>> It's a funny arms race brewing up.  I like Opinel knives, been using one 
>> for a few years now.  Still sharp, looks good.  The ones Riv have are a bit 
>> too esoteric to actually be useful knives.  IMHO at least.
>>
>> Gabe
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:12:35 AM UTC-7, William wrote:
>>>
>>> I found it pretty funny that both Opinel knives and artisan soaps are 
>>> now on the "new items" page at Velo-Orange as well.  
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:03:43 AM UTC-7, Ron Mc wrote:

 http://www.rivbike.com/Opinel-**Knife-p/knife01.htm
   
  - Someone should tell Grant that Opniel will custom-engrave knives 


 
 - it would be cool to see Riv-logo knives

>>>  -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[Christopher Chen]

Don't forget the locking blade.


On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> Carbon blades are the only reason to get Opinel knives that I can see,
> other than good value for a stainless blade. Carbon holds a sharper edge
> than stainless, but requires actual care (oiling as needed) to prevent rust.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:07:15 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Are the Opinel knives better than, say, Victorinox knives? Is it a retro
>> thing or do they have better blades?
>>
>> If not Opinel or Victorinox, what is a good pocketknife for casual and
>> occasional use, no more than 3" long -- single blade is fine. I'm no
>> connaisseur, obviously, but I'd like to have one. I've got a Victorinox
>> Swiss model but wouldn't mind another one with more bulk devoted to the
>> main blade and less to accessories.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 2:03 PM, oldmangabe  wrote:
>>
>>> They are all the rage.  Heritage products man, heritage products.  To be
>>> "fair", VO had the knives first.  Most likely to mirror Riv's hatchets.
>>> It's a funny arms race brewing up.  I like Opinel knives, been using one
>>> for a few years now.  Still sharp, looks good.  The ones Riv have are a bit
>>> too esoteric to actually be useful knives.  IMHO at least.
>>>
>>> Gabe
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:12:35 AM UTC-7, William wrote:

 I found it pretty funny that both Opinel knives and artisan soaps are
 now on the "new items" page at Velo-Orange as well.

 On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:03:43 AM UTC-7, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/Opinel-Knife-p/knife01.htm
>  - Someone should tell Grant that Opniel will custom-engrave knives
>
>
> 
> - it would be cool to see Riv-logo knives
>
  --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[Ron Mc]

I probably have too many knives - these are the non-utilitarian, but one of 
them is an Opniel.  


Every bike bag, every fishing bag, has a permanent knife clipped in.  
BTW, classic Texas BBQ is an old German butcher shop, you order meat, an 
onion, a tomato, they wrap it up in butcher paper and you eat with your 
pocket knife.  
There's a butcher knife on a chain at a pulpit on the wall - if you have to 
use it, everyone knows you're not from here


 



yes, Big Red - liquid bubble gum




On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 4:07:15 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Are the Opinel knives better than, say, Victorinox knives? Is it a retro 
> thing or do they have better blades?
>
> If not Opinel or Victorinox, what is a good pocketknife for casual and 
> occasional use, no more than 3" long -- single blade is fine. I'm no 
> connaisseur, obviously, but I'd like to have one. I've got a Victorinox 
> Swiss model but wouldn't mind another one with more bulk devoted to the 
> main blade and less to accessories.
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 2:03 PM, oldmangabe 
> > wrote:
>
>> They are all the rage.  Heritage products man, heritage products.  To be 
>> "fair", VO had the knives first.  Most likely to mirror Riv's hatchets.  
>> It's a funny arms race brewing up.  I like Opinel knives, been using one 
>> for a few years now.  Still sharp, looks good.  The ones Riv have are a bit 
>> too esoteric to actually be useful knives.  IMHO at least.
>>
>> Gabe
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:12:35 AM UTC-7, William wrote:
>>>
>>> I found it pretty funny that both Opinel knives and artisan soaps are 
>>> now on the "new items" page at Velo-Orange as well.  
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:03:43 AM UTC-7, Ron Mc wrote:

 http://www.rivbike.com/Opinel-**Knife-p/knife01.htm
   
  - Someone should tell Grant that Opniel will custom-engrave knives 


 
 - it would be cool to see Riv-logo knives

>>>  -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Deacon Patrick]

Patrick. Patrick. Patrick. Sigh. I take deep, personal offense at that. I 
don't care that it proves your point. I have an offensive collection and I 
needed this one. Sardonic grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:02:57 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> My purpose in my snide remark (not really snide, more ironic) was to say 
> that sometimes we are far, far too earnest, and that we take offense far, 
> far too easily.
>
> FWIW, I fully agree with Toshi that bike clothing has evolved for its 
> usefulness and that one should wear it as and when it serves its purpose.
>
> Patrick "Diapers! Onward and Upward!" Moore
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:38 PM, William  >wrote:
>
>> I suppose I need to go look up the real definition of the word "snide", 
>> then.  I always considered "snide" to be an adjective, meaning: 
>>
>>
>>1. Derogatory or mocking in an indirect way: "snide remarks"
>>
>>
>> I also considered "mean" to be on the list of synonyms for "snide".  
>>
>> I do applaud your double entendre, "thick skinned".  You have a literal 
>> thick-skin (butt-callouses) so you don't need bike shorts, and you have a 
>> metaphorical thick-skin so you aren't insulted by "derogatory or mocking" 
>> statements that aren't directed at you.  Very well played.  
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 12:13:42 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> I think "diaper" is a great name for padded shorts and I don't think it 
>>> is mean at all. It's just snide. Of course, I must be thick skinned since I 
>>> don't need one for my riding (though I have a few in reserve for those ever 
>>> elusive >50 milers.
>>>
>>> Patrick "diapers forever!" Moore
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:55 AM, William  wrote:
>>>
  the worst thing he's ever said about padded bike shorts is his use of 
 the term "diaper".  I think that's a very poorly chosen word, and it is 
 insulting, and unnecessarily mean.  

>>>  
>>> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[Ron Mc]

Patrick, the most useful knife I've ever handled (own 3 permanently clipped 
in bags) is the Spyderco Native

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 4:07:15 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Are the Opinel knives better than, say, Victorinox knives? Is it a retro 
> thing or do they have better blades?
>
> If not Opinel or Victorinox, what is a good pocketknife for casual and 
> occasional use, no more than 3" long -- single blade is fine. I'm no 
> connaisseur, obviously, but I'd like to have one. I've got a Victorinox 
> Swiss model but wouldn't mind another one with more bulk devoted to the 
> main blade and less to accessories.
>
>
>  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Crazy Idea: Riv National Jamboree

[Liesl]

There is a Minneapolis/St. Paul sleeper cell noodling up an idea although 
our "meetings" have been adhoc at best...

Liesl-can-you-tell-i'm-working-too-hard-since-I-haven't-posted-recently?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Crazy Idea: Riv National Jamboree

[Deacon Patrick]

Are you wanting active NSA surveillance on this list, Liesl?

With abandon (obviously),
Patrick

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:25:45 PM UTC-6, Liesl wrote:
>
> There is a Minneapolis/St. Paul sleeper cell noodling up an idea although 
> our "meetings" have been adhoc at best...
>
> Liesl-can-you-tell-i'm-working-too-hard-since-I-haven't-posted-recently?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[William]

I hope your offensive collection doesn't spill over into my Irony Hall of 
Fame.  

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:21:12 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Patrick. Patrick. Patrick. Sigh. I take deep, personal offense at that. I 
> don't care that it proves your point. I have an offensive collection and I 
> needed this one. Sardonic grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:02:57 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> My purpose in my snide remark (not really snide, more ironic) was to say 
>> that sometimes we are far, far too earnest, and that we take offense far, 
>> far too easily.
>>
>> FWIW, I fully agree with Toshi that bike clothing has evolved for its 
>> usefulness and that one should wear it as and when it serves its purpose.
>>
>> Patrick "Diapers! Onward and Upward!" Moore
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:38 PM, William  wrote:
>>
>>> I suppose I need to go look up the real definition of the word "snide", 
>>> then.  I always considered "snide" to be an adjective, meaning: 
>>>
>>>
>>>1. Derogatory or mocking in an indirect way: "snide remarks"
>>>
>>>
>>> I also considered "mean" to be on the list of synonyms for "snide".  
>>>
>>> I do applaud your double entendre, "thick skinned".  You have a literal 
>>> thick-skin (butt-callouses) so you don't need bike shorts, and you have a 
>>> metaphorical thick-skin so you aren't insulted by "derogatory or mocking" 
>>> statements that aren't directed at you.  Very well played.  
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 12:13:42 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:

 I think "diaper" is a great name for padded shorts and I don't think it 
 is mean at all. It's just snide. Of course, I must be thick skinned since 
 I 
 don't need one for my riding (though I have a few in reserve for those 
 ever 
 elusive >50 milers.

 Patrick "diapers forever!" Moore


 On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:55 AM, William  wrote:

>  the worst thing he's ever said about padded bike shorts is his use of 
> the term "diaper".  I think that's a very poorly chosen word, and it is 
> insulting, and unnecessarily mean.  
>
  
 -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Deacon Patrick]

Ironically, yes it does, William. Otherwise it would be less offensive. I 
can't have an offensive collection getting defensive about it's paranoia of 
becoming friendly, or worse, PC. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:37:42 PM UTC-6, William wrote:
>
> I hope your offensive collection doesn't spill over into my Irony Hall of 
> Fame.  
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:21:12 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> Patrick. Patrick. Patrick. Sigh. I take deep, personal offense at that. I 
>> don't care that it proves your point. I have an offensive collection and I 
>> needed this one. Sardonic grin.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:02:57 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> My purpose in my snide remark (not really snide, more ironic) was to say 
>>> that sometimes we are far, far too earnest, and that we take offense far, 
>>> far too easily.
>>>
>>> FWIW, I fully agree with Toshi that bike clothing has evolved for its 
>>> usefulness and that one should wear it as and when it serves its purpose.
>>>
>>> Patrick "Diapers! Onward and Upward!" Moore
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:38 PM, William  wrote:
>>>
 I suppose I need to go look up the real definition of the word "snide", 
 then.  I always considered "snide" to be an adjective, meaning: 


1. Derogatory or mocking in an indirect way: "snide remarks"


 I also considered "mean" to be on the list of synonyms for "snide".  

 I do applaud your double entendre, "thick skinned".  You have a literal 
 thick-skin (butt-callouses) so you don't need bike shorts, and you have a 
 metaphorical thick-skin so you aren't insulted by "derogatory or mocking" 
 statements that aren't directed at you.  Very well played.  

 On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 12:13:42 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I think "diaper" is a great name for padded shorts and I don't think 
> it is mean at all. It's just snide. Of course, I must be thick skinned 
> since I don't need one for my riding (though I have a few in reserve for 
> those ever elusive >50 milers.
>
> Patrick "diapers forever!" Moore
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:55 AM, William  wrote:
>
>>  the worst thing he's ever said about padded bike shorts is his use 
>> of the term "diaper".  I think that's a very poorly chosen word, and it 
>> is 
>> insulting, and unnecessarily mean.  
>>
>  
> -- 
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>>>
>>>
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>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[Patrick Moore]

Help me out here, a knife kneophyte.

My own experience, which is with ordinary kitchen knives, is that good
quality stainless steel ones -- Henckels -- are very hard for me to
sharpen; while non-stainless -- "Old Hickory" is the brand I have --
sharpens easier and, moreover, responds to a steel much better than the
Henckels.

Is it true that stainless steel (well, good ss -- I've had cheap ss that
seemed as soft as non-ss) is much harder than the stuff that "Old Hickory"
uses, and that it is this hardness that makes it much harder to get the
right edge on it, while softer steels take an edge much more easily (and
respond to the steel much more readily) but also lose their edge faster?

At any rate, I gave up my Henckels because I couldn't get them as sharp;
never got around to taking them to a professional sharpener.

My gauge for kitchen knife sharpness (apart from the "catches on your
fingernail" test) is that a knife slices a ripe tomato easily without
crushing it.


On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> Carbon blades are the only reason to get Opinel knives that I can see,
> other than good value for a stainless blade. Carbon holds a sharper edge
> than stainless, but requires actual care (oiling as needed) to prevent rust.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:07:15 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Are the Opinel knives better than, say, Victorinox knives? Is it a retro
>> thing or do they have better blades?
>>
>> If not Opinel or Victorinox, what is a good pocketknife for casual and
>> occasional use, no more than 3" long -- single blade is fine. I'm no
>> connaisseur, obviously, but I'd like to have one. I've got a Victorinox
>> Swiss model but wouldn't mind another one with more bulk devoted to the
>> main blade and less to accessories.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 2:03 PM, oldmangabe  wrote:
>>
>>> They are all the rage.  Heritage products man, heritage products.  To be
>>> "fair", VO had the knives first.  Most likely to mirror Riv's hatchets.
>>> It's a funny arms race brewing up.  I like Opinel knives, been using one
>>> for a few years now.  Still sharp, looks good.  The ones Riv have are a bit
>>> too esoteric to actually be useful knives.  IMHO at least.
>>>
>>> Gabe
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:12:35 AM UTC-7, William wrote:

 I found it pretty funny that both Opinel knives and artisan soaps are
 now on the "new items" page at Velo-Orange as well.

 On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:03:43 AM UTC-7, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/Opinel-Knife-p/knife01.htm
>  - Someone should tell Grant that Opniel will custom-engrave knives
>
>
> 
> - it would be cool to see Riv-logo knives
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks -- will look it up.


On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Ron Mc  wrote:

> Patrick, the most useful knife I've ever handled (own 3 permanently
> clipped in bags) is the Spyderco Native
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 4:07:15 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Are the Opinel knives better than, say, Victorinox knives? Is it a retro
>> thing or do they have better blades?
>>
>> If not Opinel or Victorinox, what is a good pocketknife for casual and
>> occasional use, no more than 3" long -- single blade is fine. I'm no
>> connaisseur, obviously, but I'd like to have one. I've got a Victorinox
>> Swiss model but wouldn't mind another one with more bulk devoted to the
>> main blade and less to accessories.
>>
>>
>>   --
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Re: [RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Patrick Moore]

I'm getting very confused here. Let's talk about knives.


On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> Ironically, yes it does, William. Otherwise it would be less offensive. I
> can't have an offensive collection getting defensive about it's paranoia of
> becoming friendly, or worse, PC. Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:37:42 PM UTC-6, William wrote:
>>
>> I hope your offensive collection doesn't spill over into my Irony Hall of
>> Fame.
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:21:12 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>>
>>> Patrick. Patrick. Patrick. Sigh. I take deep, personal offense at that.
>>> I don't care that it proves your point. I have an offensive collection and
>>> I needed this one. Sardonic grin.
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:02:57 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

 My purpose in my snide remark (not really snide, more ironic) was to
 say that sometimes we are far, far too earnest, and that we take offense
 far, far too easily.

 FWIW, I fully agree with Toshi that bike clothing has evolved for its
 usefulness and that one should wear it as and when it serves its purpose.

 Patrick "Diapers! Onward and Upward!" Moore


 On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:38 PM, William  wrote:

> I suppose I need to go look up the real definition of the word
> "snide", then.  I always considered "snide" to be an adjective, meaning:
>
>
>1. Derogatory or mocking in an indirect way: "snide remarks"
>
>
> I also considered "mean" to be on the list of synonyms for "snide".
>
> I do applaud your double entendre, "thick skinned".  You have a
> literal thick-skin (butt-callouses) so you don't need bike shorts, and you
> have a metaphorical thick-skin so you aren't insulted by "derogatory or
> mocking" statements that aren't directed at you.  Very well played.
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 12:13:42 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> I think "diaper" is a great name for padded shorts and I don't think
>> it is mean at all. It's just snide. Of course, I must be thick skinned
>> since I don't need one for my riding (though I have a few in reserve for
>> those ever elusive >50 milers.
>>
>> Patrick "diapers forever!" Moore
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:55 AM, William  wrote:
>>
>>>  the worst thing he's ever said about padded bike shorts is his use
>>> of the term "diaper".  I think that's a very poorly chosen word, and it 
>>> is
>>> insulting, and unnecessarily mean.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> *RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED!*
>> Certified Resume Writer
>> http://resumespecialties.com/**i**ndex.html
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[RBW] Re: What do Rivendell riders wear for cycling shorts for long rides?

[Matthew J]

I think GP wants you to be happy on your bike.

And if that means wearing padded shorts, nylon shorts, denim shorts, 
diapers, or nothing at all, I expect he will concur (well, maybe not on the 
last one).

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[Ron Mc]

for my kitchen knives, I bought a Wustoff steak knife set with an empty 
block.  I also bought the Wustoff scissors, steel and bread knife.  I 
gradually filled the remaining holes in the block with handmade Japanese 
knives - Sakai, Kanatsune, Al-Mar.  
Stainless knives form some delta-ferrite as stringers in the metal first on 
cooling, the remaining metal is austenite then transforms on cooling to 
martensite.  
Martensite is the hard stuff, delta ferrite is soft.  Carbon steel has no 
delta ferrite, which is why it holds such a good edge.  
Really good stainless such as VG-10 forms much less delta-ferrite than 440C 
stainless, and good handmade knives break the delta-ferrite that is there 
into very fine particles.  

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 4:47:38 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Thanks -- will look it up.
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Ron Mc  >wrote:
>
>> Patrick, the most useful knife I've ever handled (own 3 permanently 
>> clipped in bags) is the Spyderco Native
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 4:07:15 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> Are the Opinel knives better than, say, Victorinox knives? Is it a retro 
>>> thing or do they have better blades?
>>>
>>> If not Opinel or Victorinox, what is a good pocketknife for casual and 
>>> occasional use, no more than 3" long -- single blade is fine. I'm no 
>>> connaisseur, obviously, but I'd like to have one. I've got a Victorinox 
>>> Swiss model but wouldn't mind another one with more bulk devoted to the 
>>> main blade and less to accessories.
>>>
>>>
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[RBW] Re: Opniel knives

[oldmangabe]

Bill,

I would be into Wiffle Inc stuff!   

Sorry to misinterpret your post and come down on you.  I find it tiring to 
have people frequently creating binaries by pitting Riv vs VO, or BQ vs 
Riv, Giants vs A's, etc, etc.  I guess I need to chill and not be on the 
forums for a bit.  

Later,

Gabe

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 1:09:05 PM UTC-7, William wrote:
>
> Yes, the funniness had nothing to do with who had them first, and I didn't 
> intend to imply that anyone copied anyone.  I only found humor in both 
> establishments choosing to carry them this summer.  Clearly both Grant and 
> Chris used them as boys, just like countless others have.  Maybe they'll 
> both carry Wiffle Inc products, which are still miraculously made in 
> Fairfield, Connecticut.  
>
> Bill "Heritage products!" Lindsay
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 1:03:10 PM UTC-7, oldmangabe wrote:
>>
>> They are all the rage.  Heritage products man, heritage products.  To be 
>> "fair", VO had the knives first.  Most likely to mirror Riv's hatchets.  
>> It's a funny arms race brewing up.  I like Opinel knives, been using one 
>> for a few years now.  Still sharp, looks good.  The ones Riv have are a bit 
>> too esoteric to actually be useful knives.  IMHO at least.
>>
>> Gabe
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:12:35 AM UTC-7, William wrote:
>>>
>>> I found it pretty funny that both Opinel knives and artisan soaps are 
>>> now on the "new items" page at Velo-Orange as well.  
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:03:43 AM UTC-7, Ron Mc wrote:

 http://www.rivbike.com/Opinel-Knife-p/knife01.htm   - Someone should 
 tell Grant that Opniel will custom-engrave knives 


 
 - it would be cool to see Riv-logo knives

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Crazy Idea: Riv National Jamboree

[Marc Irwin]

That MSP cell has a location advantage.  They are at least close to the 
center of the country and Minneapolis has really good service from Amtrak, 
people of both coasts could take a train which has full baggage service 
which means Amtrak can provide boxes to bring full sized bikes along.   
That is a major logistical problem for most people traveling.

Marc

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 5:25:45 PM UTC-4, Liesl wrote:
>
> There is a Minneapolis/St. Paul sleeper cell noodling up an idea although 
> our "meetings" have been adhoc at best...
>
> Liesl-can-you-tell-i'm-working-too-hard-since-I-haven't-posted-recently?
>

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