date:20151016

Hey guy,

Thanks so much for pointing out this is why it is great to wait to the next 
version of an operating system comes out. Wow, what a original novice concept 
that has never ever been pointed out on this list. 

Ok, now that that is out of the way. I want to thank everyone who has posted 
about their issues with safari in El Capitan the IOS 8 for VO users on the mac. 
Holy cow, Apple what a crap operating system. Thankfully I will be rolling back 
this weekend. Just need to do some more backups. Seriously, I love Apple, but 
you got to call them out when they shit the bed and El Capitan is just that. 
Apple claimed IOS 9 and El Capitan were going to be focused on Quality Control 
instead of fancy new things. Well, how can Apple expect any VO user that they 
seriously test VO when safari on a lot of websites is absolutely unusable. It 
is great that VO seems to be much snappier but with it constantly crashing and 
turning on and off it is unusable, and I am finding the same issue in chrome on 
the same websites so it is definitely VO.

Another issue which I have not seen posted is how VO just does not read things. 
For example go through your contact list in contacts and you will constantly 
have to go back up to a previous contact and then back down again to get VO to 
read it. These two issues alone are so severe that Apple should fire anyone 
doing Quality Control for VO or they just do not care about the quality of it. 
Very disappointed in Apple again.
> On Oct 15, 2015, at 10:30 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> This is why it’s always best to wait until at least the first, and sometimes 
> the second major update before installing a new version of the operating 
> system, let the major bugs get worked out first.
>> On Oct 15, 2015, at 5:42 PM, Sadam Ahmed  wrote:
>> 
>> This is why I have Rolled back  to Yosemite. 
>> 
>> These are some of the worst bugs I've seen since I started using the Mac 
>> back in 2010. 
>> 
>> Won't be updating until a  update comes out to address these problems. 
>> 
>> Yours truly, 
>> 
>> Sadam Ahmed 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 9:16 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is that with the official build, or is that with the private beta?  I 
>>> confess I really haven't tried doing anything with Safari over there since 
>>> I finally got successfully updated.  How are people getting around this 
>>> being that surfing the web is so heavily done now adays with computers?  
>>> Are folks just using Crome instead?  What about Webkit?  Is it any better?
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> - Original Message - From: "Daniel Miller" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 6:12 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Safari on 10.11 is pretty pathetic right now. It’s the worst experience 
>>> I’ve ever had while using OS X.
>>> 
 On Oct 15, 2015, at 4:41 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

 Hello.

 Just been using Safari as I went to the online RNIB library catalogue. 
 Safari is terrible on that website and I wonder if Safari is broken?  Once 
 I sign in and browse for books either in braille or for Talking books, 
 Safari won’t read the search results as it keeps saying dialogue.  Also I 
 am going to try out Overdrive again in due course so I hope it’s been 
 fixed with IOS9 as I had problems with it when I tried it on the I phone 6 
 Plus.  Now I am using the 6 Plus S wonder if it will improve.

 I wish I could get rid of the favourites bar in safari and get it back to 
 how it was when I was using it in Yosemite.  I apologise if I have 
 misspelt the name wrong again but I try to spell it wright.

 Thanks.

 Kawal.

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Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

My opinion is that once the new hotness (i.e., El Capitan) is out, you can 
expect that Safari will be simultaneously broken and also not quite functional 
once updated in previous releases, with any change to accessibility 
concentrating on the new hotness at the expense of the old, so that you will 
end up having to upgrade to get your accessibility back.  This process repeats 
itself every single release and El Cap is no exception.  Right now, Safari on 
El Cap is by no means totally unusable, but it has certainly got a very bad 
rash.  You can hold off, but given that Safari 9 is also broken quite 
considerably on Yosemite, I’m not really sure what you’d gain from it.

For the slightly adventurous, there is always WebKit nightly.  For the 
especially adventurous, there is Chrome Canary.  For the insane, there is 
Chrome Canary and ChromeVox. :)

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Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

It’s report-a-bug Friday.  Why not send Apple a note? :)

For myself, my El Cap install is back to its old Yosemite ways, with Mail being 
back to a crawl with large folders.  I have no idea why, but rolling back is no 
option, either.  So, yeah, accept the way things are, and suffer.  Oh, and tell 
Apple about it.  Or go back to Windows …

Finally, consider that there are new Macs shipping with El Cap.  It’s 
true—we’re the minority.  Let us not forget …

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Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

Oh yeah, and I can’t tell you how much I love the new mail bug when I delete a 
thread of messages and then a few minutes later a error message pops up telling 
me the previous batch of messages can’t be moved to the trash. Way to go Apple 
that is an impressive one. Why would anyone want to delete messages they have 
read. 
> On Oct 16, 2015, at 4:20 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> It’s report-a-bug Friday.  Why not send Apple a note? :)
> 
> For myself, my El Cap install is back to its old Yosemite ways, with Mail 
> being back to a crawl with large folders.  I have no idea why, but rolling 
> back is no option, either.  So, yeah, accept the way things are, and suffer.  
> Oh, and tell Apple about it.  Or go back to Windows …
> 
> Finally, consider that there are new Macs shipping with El Cap.  It’s 
> true—we’re the minority.  Let us not forget …
> 
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I am frustrated.

Hello everyone.

I am very frustrated with my Braille display.

For some reason, it works for a short while on my iPhone, and then it stops. 
Also, when I input the text, if I write three words, two words show.

I am away this weekend from my computer, so have to use the Braille display and 
my iPhone.

What I don't understand is, why everyone else says they can use their braille 
display, and I cannot? 
Normally, I have been very good with a  Braille display and could use it with 
my iPhone, and I was using it with no problem when using the iPhone when the 
last iOS was out.

Normally, I have always been able to use the Braille display successfully.

I am dictating this message because I cannot use Braille display very well.

Also, when I write a message, when in the text messing app, if I press the 
enter key, it sends the message rather than making a new line. I have checked 
the settings in accessibility and wonder what else I am missing? Also I write 
contracted and it appears in grade 1. If I have done something or missed 
another step in this process, please enlighten me as I cannot input braille 
using my hands as they hurt after a while so I need to use this display. So 
help!

The way to go onone's birthday! ☺️

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

2015-10-16 Thread Phil Halton

Windows is starting to look like an option again. Glad I never left it and kept 
it as a VM on my MBA. Maybe it's time to get a Windows machine with NVDA and 
Jaws 

Sent from my IPhone


> On Oct 16, 2015, at 4:31 AM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
> 
> Oh yeah, and I can’t tell you how much I love the new mail bug when I delete 
> a thread of messages and then a few minutes later a error message pops up 
> telling me the previous batch of messages can’t be moved to the trash. Way to 
> go Apple that is an impressive one. Why would anyone want to delete messages 
> they have read. 
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 4:20 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> It’s report-a-bug Friday.  Why not send Apple a note? :)
>> 
>> For myself, my El Cap install is back to its old Yosemite ways, with Mail 
>> being back to a crawl with large folders.  I have no idea why, but rolling 
>> back is no option, either.  So, yeah, accept the way things are, and suffer. 
>>  Oh, and tell Apple about it.  Or go back to Windows …
>> 
>> Finally, consider that there are new Macs shipping with El Cap.  It’s 
>> true—we’re the minority.  Let us not forget …
>> 
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Re: I am frustrated.

2015-10-16 Thread Thuy Mallalieu

Hi Kawal. I wonder if the status cell 
has been switched on by mistake? I remember in an older version of ios that 
used to crash if the status cell is on. I wonder if the restore from backup 
didn't bring across althe settings properly. Try setting it up with the speech 
and maybe forget the device and try pairing it again. Hope you can get it to 
work ok. I know how frustrating it is, especially when you get so reliant on 
using the braille.
Cheers
Thuy
Sent from my iPhone

> On 16 Oct 2015, at 13:54, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone.
> 
> I am very frustrated with my Braille display.
> 
> For some reason, it works for a short while on my iPhone, and then it stops. 
> Also, when I input the text, if I write three words, two words show.
> 
> I am away this weekend from my computer, so have to use the Braille display 
> and my iPhone.
> 
> What I don't understand is, why everyone else says they can use their braille 
> display, and I cannot? 
> Normally, I have been very good with a  Braille display and could use it with 
> my iPhone, and I was using it with no problem when using the iPhone when the 
> last iOS was out.
> 
> Normally, I have always been able to use the Braille display successfully.
> 
> I am dictating this message because I cannot use Braille display very well.
> 
> Also, when I write a message, when in the text messing app, if I press the 
> enter key, it sends the message rather than making a new line. I have checked 
> the settings in accessibility and wonder what else I am missing? Also I write 
> contracted and it appears in grade 1. If I have done something or missed 
> another step in this process, please enlighten me as I cannot input braille 
> using my hands as they hurt after a while so I need to use this display. So 
> help!
> 
> The way to go onone's birthday! ☺️
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

2015-10-16 Thread Daniel Miller

I’ll take a browser that’s at least accessible, unlike the new Edge browser in 
windows 10, thanks. 
> On Oct 16, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> Windows is starting to look like an option again. Glad I never left it and 
> kept it as a VM on my MBA. Maybe it's time to get a Windows machine with NVDA 
> and Jaws 
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> 
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 4:31 AM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
>> 
>> Oh yeah, and I can’t tell you how much I love the new mail bug when I delete 
>> a thread of messages and then a few minutes later a error message pops up 
>> telling me the previous batch of messages can’t be moved to the trash. Way 
>> to go Apple that is an impressive one. Why would anyone want to delete 
>> messages they have read. 
>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 4:20 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> It’s report-a-bug Friday.  Why not send Apple a note? :)
>>> 
>>> For myself, my El Cap install is back to its old Yosemite ways, with Mail 
>>> being back to a crawl with large folders.  I have no idea why, but rolling 
>>> back is no option, either.  So, yeah, accept the way things are, and 
>>> suffer.  Oh, and tell Apple about it.  Or go back to Windows …
>>> 
>>> Finally, consider that there are new Macs shipping with El Cap.  It’s 
>>> true—we’re the minority.  Let us not forget …
>>> 
>>> -- 
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Re: I am frustrated.

I am not experiencing your first problem. I am running the latest iOS and am 
writing this message using a ,refreshabraille 18 braille display.

As for your last problem, go to settings, general, accessibility, voiceover, 
braille. Writing and reading braille are seperate selections. I have my braille 
input set to 8-dot computer braille and my reading output set to ,,ueb 
contracted braille.

Whilst writing this message, I am noticing that, each time I press space or a 
punctuation symbol, my braille display shows the beginning of the line. Whilst 
writing each word, the display shows the word I am currently writing.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 17 Oct 2015, at 01:54, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone.
> 
> I am very frustrated with my Braille display.
> 
> For some reason, it works for a short while on my iPhone, and then it stops. 
> Also, when I input the text, if I write three words, two words show.
> 
> I am away this weekend from my computer, so have to use the Braille display 
> and my iPhone.
> 
> What I don't understand is, why everyone else says they can use their braille 
> display, and I cannot? 
> Normally, I have been very good with a  Braille display and could use it with 
> my iPhone, and I was using it with no problem when using the iPhone when the 
> last iOS was out.
> 
> Normally, I have always been able to use the Braille display successfully.
> 
> I am dictating this message because I cannot use Braille display very well.
> 
> Also, when I write a message, when in the text messing app, if I press the 
> enter key, it sends the message rather than making a new line. I have checked 
> the settings in accessibility and wonder what else I am missing? Also I write 
> contracted and it appears in grade 1. If I have done something or missed 
> another step in this process, please enlighten me as I cannot input braille 
> using my hands as they hurt after a while so I need to use this display. So 
> help!
> 
> The way to go onone's birthday! ☺️
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Too many voices on my phone

2015-10-16 Thread Stacey Robinson

Hi I have an Iphone 5S.
How do I tell VO that I only want Alex and don’t want the language option to 
show up in my roter?
I had this set once but don’t know how I did it.

Blessings,
Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.

mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net 

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Re: I am frustrated.

Hi Thuy. 

I have turned the cells off and have set it up like David says. When I write, 
and stop, there is a FOR sign which goes away when the words get translated but 
at least it works as it should now! So how does one do a new line if one is 
writing a message as when I do chord e, the message gets sent rather than a new 
line is the message. Or has this been fixed now?

Thuy, I set this I phone up as a new phone as I am using the 6 S plus.

Thanks both for your valued help.

Kawal.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 16 Oct 2015, at 3:05 p.m., Thuy Mallalieu  wrote:
> 
> Hi Kawal. I wonder if the status cell 
> has been switched on by mistake? I remember in an older version of ios that 
> used to crash if the status cell is on. I wonder if the restore from backup 
> didn't bring across althe settings properly. Try setting it up with the 
> speech and maybe forget the device and try pairing it again. Hope you can get 
> it to work ok. I know how frustrating it is, especially when you get so 
> reliant on using the braille.
> Cheers
> Thuy
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 13:54, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello everyone.
>> 
>> I am very frustrated with my Braille display.
>> 
>> For some reason, it works for a short while on my iPhone, and then it stops. 
>> Also, when I input the text, if I write three words, two words show.
>> 
>> I am away this weekend from my computer, so have to use the Braille display 
>> and my iPhone.
>> 
>> What I don't understand is, why everyone else says they can use their 
>> braille display, and I cannot? 
>> Normally, I have been very good with a  Braille display and could use it 
>> with my iPhone, and I was using it with no problem when using the iPhone 
>> when the last iOS was out.
>> 
>> Normally, I have always been able to use the Braille display successfully.
>> 
>> I am dictating this message because I cannot use Braille display very well.
>> 
>> Also, when I write a message, when in the text messing app, if I press the 
>> enter key, it sends the message rather than making a new line. I have 
>> checked the settings in accessibility and wonder what else I am missing? 
>> Also I write contracted and it appears in grade 1. If I have done something 
>> or missed another step in this process, please enlighten me as I cannot 
>> input braille using my hands as they hurt after a while so I need to use 
>> this display. So help!
>> 
>> The way to go onone's birthday! ☺️
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
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Re: Too many voices on my phone

2015-10-16 Thread E.T.


   Find the rotor in Voiceover settings and uncheck language.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 10/16/2015 8:24 AM, Stacey Robinson wrote:

Hi I have an Iphone 5S.
How do I tell VO that I only want Alex and don’t want the language
option to show up in my roter?
I had this set once but don’t know how I did it.

Blessings,
Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.
mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net

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Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

Don't worry you guys. El Capitan is the best and greatest and most bug free OS 
ever, because we've tested it and tested, and reported again and again, and 
sure, big bugs were squished, but little bugs bite worse.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 16, 2015, at 3:31 AM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
> 
> Oh yeah, and I can’t tell you how much I love the new mail bug when I delete 
> a thread of messages and then a few minutes later a error message pops up 
> telling me the previous batch of messages can’t be moved to the trash. Way to 
> go Apple that is an impressive one. Why would anyone want to delete messages 
> they have read. 
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 4:20 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> It’s report-a-bug Friday.  Why not send Apple a note? :)
>> 
>> For myself, my El Cap install is back to its old Yosemite ways, with Mail 
>> being back to a crawl with large folders.  I have no idea why, but rolling 
>> back is no option, either.  So, yeah, accept the way things are, and suffer. 
>>  Oh, and tell Apple about it.  Or go back to Windows …
>> 
>> Finally, consider that there are new Macs shipping with El Cap.  It’s 
>> true—we’re the minority.  Let us not forget …
>> 
>> -- 
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Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

Well, Windows is looking good right now, and maybe I'll get a Windows laptop 
next, but my Mac has lasted for years. But yes, Windows 10, with Thunderbird, 
which isn't accessible on the mac, and Firefox, does look pretty darn good, 
along with Quick Windows Sequencer, and all the console emulators out there  
that are actually accessible on Windows.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 16, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> Windows is starting to look like an option again. Glad I never left it and 
> kept it as a VM on my MBA. Maybe it's time to get a Windows machine with NVDA 
> and Jaws 
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> 
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 4:31 AM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
>> 
>> Oh yeah, and I can’t tell you how much I love the new mail bug when I delete 
>> a thread of messages and then a few minutes later a error message pops up 
>> telling me the previous batch of messages can’t be moved to the trash. Way 
>> to go Apple that is an impressive one. Why would anyone want to delete 
>> messages they have read. 
>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 4:20 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> It’s report-a-bug Friday.  Why not send Apple a note? :)
>>> 
>>> For myself, my El Cap install is back to its old Yosemite ways, with Mail 
>>> being back to a crawl with large folders.  I have no idea why, but rolling 
>>> back is no option, either.  So, yeah, accept the way things are, and 
>>> suffer.  Oh, and tell Apple about it.  Or go back to Windows …
>>> 
>>> Finally, consider that there are new Macs shipping with El Cap.  It’s 
>>> true—we’re the minority.  Let us not forget …
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> 
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Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

They should really hire a blind software engineer. I think that's about the 
only way we'll get any progress.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 16, 2015, at 2:20 AM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
> 
> Hey guy,
> 
> Thanks so much for pointing out this is why it is great to wait to the next 
> version of an operating system comes out. Wow, what a original novice concept 
> that has never ever been pointed out on this list. 
> 
> Ok, now that that is out of the way. I want to thank everyone who has posted 
> about their issues with safari in El Capitan the IOS 8 for VO users on the 
> mac. Holy cow, Apple what a crap operating system. Thankfully I will be 
> rolling back this weekend. Just need to do some more backups. Seriously, I 
> love Apple, but you got to call them out when they shit the bed and El 
> Capitan is just that. Apple claimed IOS 9 and El Capitan were going to be 
> focused on Quality Control instead of fancy new things. Well, how can Apple 
> expect any VO user that they seriously test VO when safari on a lot of 
> websites is absolutely unusable. It is great that VO seems to be much 
> snappier but with it constantly crashing and turning on and off it is 
> unusable, and I am finding the same issue in chrome on the same websites so 
> it is definitely VO.
> 
> Another issue which I have not seen posted is how VO just does not read 
> things. For example go through your contact list in contacts and you will 
> constantly have to go back up to a previous contact and then back down again 
> to get VO to read it. These two issues alone are so severe that Apple should 
> fire anyone doing Quality Control for VO or they just do not care about the 
> quality of it. Very disappointed in Apple again.
>> On Oct 15, 2015, at 10:30 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>> This is why it’s always best to wait until at least the first, and sometimes 
>> the second major update before installing a new version of the operating 
>> system, let the major bugs get worked out first.
>>> On Oct 15, 2015, at 5:42 PM, Sadam Ahmed  wrote:
>>> 
>>> This is why I have Rolled back  to Yosemite. 
>>> 
>>> These are some of the worst bugs I've seen since I started using the Mac 
>>> back in 2010. 
>>> 
>>> Won't be updating until a  update comes out to address these problems. 
>>> 
>>> Yours truly, 
>>> 
>>> Sadam Ahmed 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 16 Oct 2015, at 9:16 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
  wrote:
 
 Is that with the official build, or is that with the private beta?  I 
 confess I really haven't tried doing anything with Safari over there since 
 I finally got successfully updated.  How are people getting around this 
 being that surfing the web is so heavily done now adays with computers?  
 Are folks just using Crome instead?  What about Webkit?  Is it any better?
 
 Chris.
 
 - Original Message - From: "Daniel Miller" 
 To: 
 Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 6:12 PM
 Subject: Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?
 
 
 Hi,
 
 Safari on 10.11 is pretty pathetic right now. It’s the worst experience 
 I’ve ever had while using OS X.
 
> On Oct 15, 2015, at 4:41 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hello.
> 
> Just been using Safari as I went to the online RNIB library catalogue. 
> Safari is terrible on that website and I wonder if Safari is broken?  
> Once I sign in and browse for books either in braille or for Talking 
> books, Safari won’t read the search results as it keeps saying dialogue.  
> Also I am going to try out Overdrive again in due course so I hope it’s 
> been fixed with IOS9 as I had problems with it when I tried it on the I 
> phone 6 Plus.  Now I am using the 6 Plus S wonder if it will improve.
> 
> I wish I could get rid of the favourites bar in safari and get it back to 
> how it was when I was using it in Yosemite.  I apologise if I have 
> misspelt the name wrong again but I try to spell it wright.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Kawal.
> 
> -- 
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
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Re: I am frustrated.

Well, I have fixed most issues with the Braille accept for the text messaging 
issue. So if anyone can tell me why I may not be able to do a new line when 
composing an I message or text, then I will fix it. 

Thanks again. I really do rely on Braille as I can't remember any important 
information without it. Wonder if that's old fashioned! 

Kawal.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 16 Oct 2015, at 4:32 p.m., Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi Thuy. 
> 
> I have turned the cells off and have set it up like David says. When I write, 
> and stop, there is a FOR sign which goes away when the words get translated 
> but at least it works as it should now! So how does one do a new line if one 
> is writing a message as when I do chord e, the message gets sent rather than 
> a new line is the message. Or has this been fixed now?
> 
> Thuy, I set this I phone up as a new phone as I am using the 6 S plus.
> 
> Thanks both for your valued help.
> 
> Kawal.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 3:05 p.m., Thuy Mallalieu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Kawal. I wonder if the status cell 
>> has been switched on by mistake? I remember in an older version of ios that 
>> used to crash if the status cell is on. I wonder if the restore from backup 
>> didn't bring across althe settings properly. Try setting it up with the 
>> speech and maybe forget the device and try pairing it again. Hope you can 
>> get it to work ok. I know how frustrating it is, especially when you get so 
>> reliant on using the braille.
>> Cheers
>> Thuy
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 13:54, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello everyone.
>>> 
>>> I am very frustrated with my Braille display.
>>> 
>>> For some reason, it works for a short while on my iPhone, and then it 
>>> stops. Also, when I input the text, if I write three words, two words show.
>>> 
>>> I am away this weekend from my computer, so have to use the Braille display 
>>> and my iPhone.
>>> 
>>> What I don't understand is, why everyone else says they can use their 
>>> braille display, and I cannot? 
>>> Normally, I have been very good with a  Braille display and could use it 
>>> with my iPhone, and I was using it with no problem when using the iPhone 
>>> when the last iOS was out.
>>> 
>>> Normally, I have always been able to use the Braille display successfully.
>>> 
>>> I am dictating this message because I cannot use Braille display very well.
>>> 
>>> Also, when I write a message, when in the text messing app, if I press the 
>>> enter key, it sends the message rather than making a new line. I have 
>>> checked the settings in accessibility and wonder what else I am missing? 
>>> Also I write contracted and it appears in grade 1. If I have done something 
>>> or missed another step in this process, please enlighten me as I cannot 
>>> input braille using my hands as they hurt after a while so I need to use 
>>> this display. So help!
>>> 
>>> The way to go onone's birthday! ☺️
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
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> 
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Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

The only problem is that Jaws costs a lot of money and Voice Over comes with 
the Mac and has no ILM life. I have thought about getting a small windows lap 
top but haven't done anything about it as yet. I do wish there was better 
Braille sufport on the Mac. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 16 Oct 2015, at 4:46 p.m., Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> They should really hire a blind software engineer. I think that's about the 
> only way we'll get any progress.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 2:20 AM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
>> 
>> Hey guy,
>> 
>> Thanks so much for pointing out this is why it is great to wait to the next 
>> version of an operating system comes out. Wow, what a original novice 
>> concept that has never ever been pointed out on this list. 
>> 
>> Ok, now that that is out of the way. I want to thank everyone who has posted 
>> about their issues with safari in El Capitan the IOS 8 for VO users on the 
>> mac. Holy cow, Apple what a crap operating system. Thankfully I will be 
>> rolling back this weekend. Just need to do some more backups. Seriously, I 
>> love Apple, but you got to call them out when they shit the bed and El 
>> Capitan is just that. Apple claimed IOS 9 and El Capitan were going to be 
>> focused on Quality Control instead of fancy new things. Well, how can Apple 
>> expect any VO user that they seriously test VO when safari on a lot of 
>> websites is absolutely unusable. It is great that VO seems to be much 
>> snappier but with it constantly crashing and turning on and off it is 
>> unusable, and I am finding the same issue in chrome on the same websites so 
>> it is definitely VO.
>> 
>> Another issue which I have not seen posted is how VO just does not read 
>> things. For example go through your contact list in contacts and you will 
>> constantly have to go back up to a previous contact and then back down again 
>> to get VO to read it. These two issues alone are so severe that Apple should 
>> fire anyone doing Quality Control for VO or they just do not care about the 
>> quality of it. Very disappointed in Apple again.
>>> On Oct 15, 2015, at 10:30 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>> 
>>> This is why it’s always best to wait until at least the first, and 
>>> sometimes the second major update before installing a new version of the 
>>> operating system, let the major bugs get worked out first.
 On Oct 15, 2015, at 5:42 PM, Sadam Ahmed  wrote:
 
 This is why I have Rolled back  to Yosemite. 
 
 These are some of the worst bugs I've seen since I started using the Mac 
 back in 2010. 
 
 Won't be updating until a  update comes out to address these problems. 
 
 Yours truly, 
 
 Sadam Ahmed 
 
 Sent from my iPhone 
 
 -- 
 
 
 
> On 16 Oct 2015, at 9:16 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>  wrote:
> 
> Is that with the official build, or is that with the private beta?  I 
> confess I really haven't tried doing anything with Safari over there 
> since I finally got successfully updated.  How are people getting around 
> this being that surfing the web is so heavily done now adays with 
> computers?  Are folks just using Crome instead?  What about Webkit?  Is 
> it any better?
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Daniel Miller" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 6:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Safari on 10.11 is pretty pathetic right now. It’s the worst experience 
> I’ve ever had while using OS X.
> 
>> On Oct 15, 2015, at 4:41 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello.
>> 
>> Just been using Safari as I went to the online RNIB library catalogue. 
>> Safari is terrible on that website and I wonder if Safari is broken?  
>> Once I sign in and browse for books either in braille or for Talking 
>> books, Safari won’t read the search results as it keeps saying dialogue. 
>>  Also I am going to try out Overdrive again in due course so I hope it’s 
>> been fixed with IOS9 as I had problems with it when I tried it on the I 
>> phone 6 Plus.  Now I am using the 6 Plus S wonder if it will improve.
>> 
>> I wish I could get rid of the favourites bar in safari and get it back 
>> to how it was when I was using it in Yosemite.  I apologise if I have 
>> misspelt the name wrong again but I try to spell it wright.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> For more options,

Re: I am frustrated.

2015-10-16 Thread Andrew Lamanche



> On Oct 16, 2015, at 5:09 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Well, I have fixed most issues with the Braille accept for the text messaging 
> issue. So if anyone can tell me why I may not be able to do a new line when 
> composing an I message or text, then I will fix it. 
> 
> Thanks again. I really do rely on Braille as I can't remember any important 
> information without it. Wonder if that's old fashioned! 
> 
> Kawal.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 4:32 p.m., Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Thuy. 
>> 
>> I have turned the cells off and have set it up like David says. When I 
>> write, and stop, there is a FOR sign which goes away when the words get 
>> translated but at least it works as it should now! So how does one do a new 
>> line if one is writing a message as when I do chord e, the message gets sent 
>> rather than a new line is the message. Or has this been fixed now?
>> 
>> Thuy, I set this I phone up as a new phone as I am using the 6 S plus.
>> 
>> Thanks both for your valued help.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 3:05 p.m., Thuy Mallalieu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Kawal. I wonder if the status cell 
>>> has been switched on by mistake? I remember in an older version of ios that 
>>> used to crash if the status cell is on. I wonder if the restore from backup 
>>> didn't bring across althe settings properly. Try setting it up with the 
>>> speech and maybe forget the device and try pairing it again. Hope you can 
>>> get it to work ok. I know how frustrating it is, especially when you get so 
>>> reliant on using the braille.
>>> Cheers
>>> Thuy
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 16 Oct 2015, at 13:54, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 Hello everyone.
 
 I am very frustrated with my Braille display.
 
 For some reason, it works for a short while on my iPhone, and then it 
 stops. Also, when I input the text, if I write three words, two words show.
 
 I am away this weekend from my computer, so have to use the Braille 
 display and my iPhone.
 
 What I don't understand is, why everyone else says they can use their 
 braille display, and I cannot? 
 Normally, I have been very good with a  Braille display and could use it 
 with my iPhone, and I was using it with no problem when using the iPhone 
 when the last iOS was out.
 
 Normally, I have always been able to use the Braille display successfully.
 
 I am dictating this message because I cannot use Braille display very well.
 
 Also, when I write a message, when in the text messing app, if I press the 
 enter key, it sends the message rather than making a new line. I have 
 checked the settings in accessibility and wonder what else I am missing? 
 Also I write contracted and it appears in grade 1. If I have done 
 something or missed another step in this process, please enlighten me as I 
 cannot input braille using my hands as they hurt after a while so I need 
 to use this display. So help!
 
 The way to go onone's birthday! ☺️
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
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>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> 
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> 
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Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

2015-10-16 Thread Mary Otten

Jaws is not the only game in town for windows. There is nvda, which is quite 
respectable these days. The argument that you get a freebie with a Mac and 
Windows screen readers are expensive just doesn't cut it anymore, especially 
with Apple producing but here releases of OS X when they are supposed to be 
"rock solid". I bought my first mac went snow leopard was the current version 
of OS X. It was pretty solid. Since then, there certainly have been 
improvements in  voiceover features. I still believe it is clear that Apple has 
made for more of a commitment to accessibility then has Microsoft. After all, 
the new edge browser is totally inaccessible to all but the experimental 
support with the latest build of NVDA. However, Apple is quite open about this 
commitment, therefore, they have set themselves a higher standard. And they are 
not meeting it with this new release. When they release a product with serious 
voiceover issues, they are sending a message that their commitment to 
accessibility is not quite up to the standard of their commitment to those who 
do not need accessibility features. Is that really what they want to do?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 16, 2015, at 9:18 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> The only problem is that Jaws costs a lot of money and Voice Over comes with 
> the Mac and has no ILM life. I have thought about getting a small windows lap 
> top but haven't done anything about it as yet. I do wish there was better 
> Braille sufport on the Mac. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 4:46 p.m., Devin Prater  wrote:
>> 
>> They should really hire a blind software engineer. I think that's about the 
>> only way we'll get any progress.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 2:20 AM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hey guy,
>>> 
>>> Thanks so much for pointing out this is why it is great to wait to the next 
>>> version of an operating system comes out. Wow, what a original novice 
>>> concept that has never ever been pointed out on this list. 
>>> 
>>> Ok, now that that is out of the way. I want to thank everyone who has 
>>> posted about their issues with safari in El Capitan the IOS 8 for VO users 
>>> on the mac. Holy cow, Apple what a crap operating system. Thankfully I will 
>>> be rolling back this weekend. Just need to do some more backups. Seriously, 
>>> I love Apple, but you got to call them out when they shit the bed and El 
>>> Capitan is just that. Apple claimed IOS 9 and El Capitan were going to be 
>>> focused on Quality Control instead of fancy new things. Well, how can Apple 
>>> expect any VO user that they seriously test VO when safari on a lot of 
>>> websites is absolutely unusable. It is great that VO seems to be much 
>>> snappier but with it constantly crashing and turning on and off it is 
>>> unusable, and I am finding the same issue in chrome on the same websites so 
>>> it is definitely VO.
>>> 
>>> Another issue which I have not seen posted is how VO just does not read 
>>> things. For example go through your contact list in contacts and you will 
>>> constantly have to go back up to a previous contact and then back down 
>>> again to get VO to read it. These two issues alone are so severe that Apple 
>>> should fire anyone doing Quality Control for VO or they just do not care 
>>> about the quality of it. Very disappointed in Apple again.
 On Oct 15, 2015, at 10:30 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
 
 This is why it’s always best to wait until at least the first, and 
 sometimes the second major update before installing a new version of the 
 operating system, let the major bugs get worked out first.
> On Oct 15, 2015, at 5:42 PM, Sadam Ahmed  wrote:
> 
> This is why I have Rolled back  to Yosemite. 
> 
> These are some of the worst bugs I've seen since I started using the Mac 
> back in 2010. 
> 
> Won't be updating until a  update comes out to address these problems. 
> 
> Yours truly, 
> 
> Sadam Ahmed 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 9:16 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Is that with the official build, or is that with the private beta?  I 
>> confess I really haven't tried doing anything with Safari over there 
>> since I finally got successfully updated.  How are people getting around 
>> this being that surfing the web is so heavily done now adays with 
>> computers?  Are folks just using Crome instead?  What about Webkit?  Is 
>> it any better?
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Daniel Miller" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 6:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?
>> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Safari on 10.11 is pretty pathetic right now. It’s the worst experience 
>> I’ve ever had while using OS X.
>> 
>>> On Oct 15, 2015, at 4:41 P

Re: I am frustrated.

As you suggests Andrew, that is what I am doing.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 16 Oct 2015, at 5:27 p.m., Andrew Lamanche  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 5:09 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Well, I have fixed most issues with the Braille accept for the text 
>> messaging issue. So if anyone can tell me why I may not be able to do a new 
>> line when composing an I message or text, then I will fix it. 
>> 
>> Thanks again. I really do rely on Braille as I can't remember any important 
>> information without it. Wonder if that's old fashioned! 
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 4:32 p.m., Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Thuy. 
>>> 
>>> I have turned the cells off and have set it up like David says. When I 
>>> write, and stop, there is a FOR sign which goes away when the words get 
>>> translated but at least it works as it should now! So how does one do a new 
>>> line if one is writing a message as when I do chord e, the message gets 
>>> sent rather than a new line is the message. Or has this been fixed now?
>>> 
>>> Thuy, I set this I phone up as a new phone as I am using the 6 S plus.
>>> 
>>> Thanks both for your valued help.
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 16 Oct 2015, at 3:05 p.m., Thuy Mallalieu  wrote:
 
 Hi Kawal. I wonder if the status cell 
 has been switched on by mistake? I remember in an older version of ios 
 that used to crash if the status cell is on. I wonder if the restore from 
 backup didn't bring across althe settings properly. Try setting it up with 
 the speech and maybe forget the device and try pairing it again. Hope you 
 can get it to work ok. I know how frustrating it is, especially when you 
 get so reliant on using the braille.
 Cheers
 Thuy
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 16 Oct 2015, at 13:54, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone.
> 
> I am very frustrated with my Braille display.
> 
> For some reason, it works for a short while on my iPhone, and then it 
> stops. Also, when I input the text, if I write three words, two words 
> show.
> 
> I am away this weekend from my computer, so have to use the Braille 
> display and my iPhone.
> 
> What I don't understand is, why everyone else says they can use their 
> braille display, and I cannot? 
> Normally, I have been very good with a  Braille display and could use it 
> with my iPhone, and I was using it with no problem when using the iPhone 
> when the last iOS was out.
> 
> Normally, I have always been able to use the Braille display successfully.
> 
> I am dictating this message because I cannot use Braille display very 
> well.
> 
> Also, when I write a message, when in the text messing app, if I press 
> the enter key, it sends the message rather than making a new line. I have 
> checked the settings in accessibility and wonder what else I am missing? 
> Also I write contracted and it appears in grade 1. If I have done 
> something or missed another step in this process, please enlighten me as 
> I cannot input braille using my hands as they hurt after a while so I 
> need to use this display. So help!
> 
> The way to go onone's birthday! ☺️
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
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 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email t

Re: I am frustrated.

Hello,

Both dots 1 5 space, and dot 8 space, the two enter commands on the braille 
keyboard, send the message. It does not appear to be possible to place an enter 
character in a message using a braille display keyboard. 

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 17 Oct 2015, at 05:09, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Well, I have fixed most issues with the Braille accept for the text messaging 
> issue. So if anyone can tell me why I may not be able to do a new line when 
> composing an I message or text, then I will fix it. 
> 
> Thanks again. I really do rely on Braille as I can't remember any important 
> information without it. Wonder if that's old fashioned! 
> 
> Kawal.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 4:32 p.m., Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Thuy. 
>> 
>> I have turned the cells off and have set it up like David says. When I 
>> write, and stop, there is a FOR sign which goes away when the words get 
>> translated but at least it works as it should now! So how does one do a new 
>> line if one is writing a message as when I do chord e, the message gets sent 
>> rather than a new line is the message. Or has this been fixed now?
>> 
>> Thuy, I set this I phone up as a new phone as I am using the 6 S plus.
>> 
>> Thanks both for your valued help.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 3:05 p.m., Thuy Mallalieu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Kawal. I wonder if the status cell 
>>> has been switched on by mistake? I remember in an older version of ios that 
>>> used to crash if the status cell is on. I wonder if the restore from backup 
>>> didn't bring across althe settings properly. Try setting it up with the 
>>> speech and maybe forget the device and try pairing it again. Hope you can 
>>> get it to work ok. I know how frustrating it is, especially when you get so 
>>> reliant on using the braille.
>>> Cheers
>>> Thuy
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 16 Oct 2015, at 13:54, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

 Hello everyone.

 I am very frustrated with my Braille display.

 For some reason, it works for a short while on my iPhone, and then it 
 stops. Also, when I input the text, if I write three words, two words show.

 I am away this weekend from my computer, so have to use the Braille 
 display and my iPhone.

 What I don't understand is, why everyone else says they can use their 
 braille display, and I cannot? 
 Normally, I have been very good with a  Braille display and could use it 
 with my iPhone, and I was using it with no problem when using the iPhone 
 when the last iOS was out.

 Normally, I have always been able to use the Braille display successfully.

 I am dictating this message because I cannot use Braille display very well.

 Also, when I write a message, when in the text messing app, if I press the 
 enter key, it sends the message rather than making a new line. I have 
 checked the settings in accessibility and wonder what else I am missing? 
 Also I write contracted and it appears in grade 1. If I have done 
 something or missed another step in this process, please enlighten me as I 
 cannot input braille using my hands as they hurt after a while so I need 
 to use this display. So help!

 The way to go onone's birthday! ☺️

 Sent from my iPhone

 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from

Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

2015-10-16 Thread Mike Arrigo

I do think Apple is more committed to accessibility than Microsoft, but 
in the last couple years, Apple's quality control has really suffered, 
and that's the real issue, they release products without fully testing 
them. Regarding Windows screen readers, there really is no reason to 
pay for expensive screen readers anymore. NVDA works very well, and if 
you have a recent version of Microsoft Office, you can use Window Eyes 
for free. To pay for Jaws now is simply a waste of money.

Original message:
Jaws is not the only game in town for windows. There is nvda, which is 
quite respectable these days. The argument that you get a freebie with 
a Mac and Windows screen readers are expensive just doesn't cut it 
anymore, especially with Apple producing but here releases of OS X when 
they are supposed to be "rock solid". I bought my first mac went snow 
leopard was the current version of OS X. It was pretty solid. Since 
then, there certainly have been improvements in  voiceover features. I 
still believe it is clear that Apple has made for more of a commitment 
to accessibility then has Microsoft. After all, the new edge browser is 
totally inaccessible to all but the experimental support with the 
latest build of NVDA. However, Apple is quite open about this 
commitment, therefore, they have set themselves a higher standard. And 
they are not meeting it with this new release. When they release a 
product with serious voiceover issues, they are sending a message that 
their commitment to accessibility is not quite up to the standard of 
their commitment to those who do not need accessibility features. Is 
that really what they want to do?

Mary




Sent from my iPhone



On Oct 16, 2015, at 9:18 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:


The only problem is that Jaws costs a lot of money and Voice Over comes 
with the Mac and has no ILM life. I have thought about getting a small 
windows lap top but haven't done anything about it as yet. I do wish 
there was better Braille sufport on the Mac.



Sent from my iPhone



On 16 Oct 2015, at 4:46 p.m., Devin Prater  wrote:


They should really hire a blind software engineer. I think that's about 
the only way we'll get any progress.



Sent from my iPhone



On Oct 16, 2015, at 2:20 AM, Brian Fischler  wrote:



Hey guy,


Thanks so much for pointing out this is why it is great to wait to the 
next version of an operating system comes out. Wow, what a original 
novice concept that has never ever been pointed out on this list.


Ok, now that that is out of the way. I want to thank everyone who has 
posted about their issues with safari in El Capitan the IOS 8 for VO 
users on the mac. Holy cow, Apple what a crap operating system. 
Thankfully I will be rolling back this weekend. Just need to do some 
more backups. Seriously, I love Apple, but you got to call them out 
when they shit the bed and El Capitan is just that. Apple claimed IOS 9 
and El Capitan were going to be focused on Quality Control instead of 
fancy new things. Well, how can Apple expect any VO user that they 
seriously test VO when safari on a lot of websites is absolutely 
unusable. It is great that VO seems to be much snappier but with it 
constantly crashing and turning on and off it is unusable, and I am 
finding the same issue in chrome on the same websites so it is definitely VO.


Another issue which I have not seen posted is how VO just does not read 
things. For example go through your contact list in contacts and you 
will constantly have to go back up to a previous contact and then back 
down again to get VO to read it. These two issues alone are so severe 
that Apple should fire anyone doing Quality Control for VO or they just 
do not care about the quality of it. Very disappointed in Apple again.

On Oct 15, 2015, at 10:30 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:


This is why it’s always best to wait until at least the first, and 
sometimes the second major update before installing a new version of 
the operating system, let the major bugs get worked out first.

On Oct 15, 2015, at 5:42 PM, Sadam Ahmed  wrote:



This is why I have Rolled back  to Yosemite.


These are some of the worst bugs I've seen since I started using the 
Mac back in 2010.



Won't be updating until a  update comes out to address these problems.



Yours truly,



Sadam Ahmed



Sent from my iPhone



--




On 16 Oct 2015, at 9:16 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


Is that with the official build, or is that with the private beta?  I 
confess I really haven't tried doing anything with Safari over there 
since I finally got successfully updated.  How are people getting 
around this being that surfing the web is so heavily done now adays 
with computers?  Are folks just using Crome instead?  What about 
Webkit?  Is it any better?



Chris.



- Original Message - From: "Daniel Miller" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?




Hi,


Safari on 10.11 is pretty pathetic right

Re: I am frustrated.

That means one command has been taken away as I like putting paragraphs in my 
message.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 16 Oct 2015, at 5:54 p.m., David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Both dots 1 5 space, and dot 8 space, the two enter commands on the braille 
> keyboard, send the message. It does not appear to be possible to place an 
> enter character in a message using a braille display keyboard. 
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 17 Oct 2015, at 05:09, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Well, I have fixed most issues with the Braille accept for the text 
>> messaging issue. So if anyone can tell me why I may not be able to do a new 
>> line when composing an I message or text, then I will fix it. 
>> 
>> Thanks again. I really do rely on Braille as I can't remember any important 
>> information without it. Wonder if that's old fashioned! 
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 4:32 p.m., Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Thuy. 
>>> 
>>> I have turned the cells off and have set it up like David says. When I 
>>> write, and stop, there is a FOR sign which goes away when the words get 
>>> translated but at least it works as it should now! So how does one do a new 
>>> line if one is writing a message as when I do chord e, the message gets 
>>> sent rather than a new line is the message. Or has this been fixed now?
>>> 
>>> Thuy, I set this I phone up as a new phone as I am using the 6 S plus.
>>> 
>>> Thanks both for your valued help.
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 16 Oct 2015, at 3:05 p.m., Thuy Mallalieu  wrote:
 
 Hi Kawal. I wonder if the status cell 
 has been switched on by mistake? I remember in an older version of ios 
 that used to crash if the status cell is on. I wonder if the restore from 
 backup didn't bring across althe settings properly. Try setting it up with 
 the speech and maybe forget the device and try pairing it again. Hope you 
 can get it to work ok. I know how frustrating it is, especially when you 
 get so reliant on using the braille.
 Cheers
 Thuy
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 16 Oct 2015, at 13:54, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone.
> 
> I am very frustrated with my Braille display.
> 
> For some reason, it works for a short while on my iPhone, and then it 
> stops. Also, when I input the text, if I write three words, two words 
> show.
> 
> I am away this weekend from my computer, so have to use the Braille 
> display and my iPhone.
> 
> What I don't understand is, why everyone else says they can use their 
> braille display, and I cannot? 
> Normally, I have been very good with a  Braille display and could use it 
> with my iPhone, and I was using it with no problem when using the iPhone 
> when the last iOS was out.
> 
> Normally, I have always been able to use the Braille display successfully.
> 
> I am dictating this message because I cannot use Braille display very 
> well.
> 
> Also, when I write a message, when in the text messing app, if I press 
> the enter key, it sends the message rather than making a new line. I have 
> checked the settings in accessibility and wonder what else I am missing? 
> Also I write contracted and it appears in grade 1. If I have done 
> something or missed another step in this process, please enlighten me as 
> I cannot input braille using my hands as they hurt after a while so I 
> need to use this display. So help!
> 
> The way to go onone's birthday! ☺️
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send

Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

Furthermore, the Mac cannot even handle the filesystem of the new VarioUltra, 
the display I have, although the braille display can't emulate keyboard 
commands on the iPhone, so I now use my keys to go keyboard a lot more.Anyways, 
I might use the Mac for pages, as scanning back and forth for spelling errors 
is literally the best feature of voiceover for me.Gosh, if the Mac were more 
stable for me, and had less voiceover bugs, I'd happily use it a lot more. But 
for now, the iPhone is all I really use.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 16, 2015, at 11:18 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> The only problem is that Jaws costs a lot of money and Voice Over comes with 
> the Mac and has no ILM life. I have thought about getting a small windows lap 
> top but haven't done anything about it as yet. I do wish there was better 
> Braille sufport on the Mac. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 4:46 p.m., Devin Prater  wrote:
>> 
>> They should really hire a blind software engineer. I think that's about the 
>> only way we'll get any progress.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 2:20 AM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hey guy,
>>> 
>>> Thanks so much for pointing out this is why it is great to wait to the next 
>>> version of an operating system comes out. Wow, what a original novice 
>>> concept that has never ever been pointed out on this list. 
>>> 
>>> Ok, now that that is out of the way. I want to thank everyone who has 
>>> posted about their issues with safari in El Capitan the IOS 8 for VO users 
>>> on the mac. Holy cow, Apple what a crap operating system. Thankfully I will 
>>> be rolling back this weekend. Just need to do some more backups. Seriously, 
>>> I love Apple, but you got to call them out when they shit the bed and El 
>>> Capitan is just that. Apple claimed IOS 9 and El Capitan were going to be 
>>> focused on Quality Control instead of fancy new things. Well, how can Apple 
>>> expect any VO user that they seriously test VO when safari on a lot of 
>>> websites is absolutely unusable. It is great that VO seems to be much 
>>> snappier but with it constantly crashing and turning on and off it is 
>>> unusable, and I am finding the same issue in chrome on the same websites so 
>>> it is definitely VO.
>>> 
>>> Another issue which I have not seen posted is how VO just does not read 
>>> things. For example go through your contact list in contacts and you will 
>>> constantly have to go back up to a previous contact and then back down 
>>> again to get VO to read it. These two issues alone are so severe that Apple 
>>> should fire anyone doing Quality Control for VO or they just do not care 
>>> about the quality of it. Very disappointed in Apple again.
 On Oct 15, 2015, at 10:30 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
 
 This is why it’s always best to wait until at least the first, and 
 sometimes the second major update before installing a new version of the 
 operating system, let the major bugs get worked out first.
> On Oct 15, 2015, at 5:42 PM, Sadam Ahmed  wrote:
> 
> This is why I have Rolled back  to Yosemite. 
> 
> These are some of the worst bugs I've seen since I started using the Mac 
> back in 2010. 
> 
> Won't be updating until a  update comes out to address these problems. 
> 
> Yours truly, 
> 
> Sadam Ahmed 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 9:16 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Is that with the official build, or is that with the private beta?  I 
>> confess I really haven't tried doing anything with Safari over there 
>> since I finally got successfully updated.  How are people getting around 
>> this being that surfing the web is so heavily done now adays with 
>> computers?  Are folks just using Crome instead?  What about Webkit?  Is 
>> it any better?
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Daniel Miller" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 6:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?
>> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Safari on 10.11 is pretty pathetic right now. It’s the worst experience 
>> I’ve ever had while using OS X.
>> 
>>> On Oct 15, 2015, at 4:41 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello.
>>> 
>>> Just been using Safari as I went to the online RNIB library catalogue. 
>>> Safari is terrible on that website and I wonder if Safari is broken?  
>>> Once I sign in and browse for books either in braille or for Talking 
>>> books, Safari won’t read the search results as it keeps saying 
>>> dialogue.  Also I am going to try out Overdrive again in due course so 
>>> I hope it’s been fixed with IOS9 as I had problems with it when I tried 
>>> it on the I phone 6 Plus.  Now I am using the 6 Plus S wonder if it 
>>> will improve.
>>> 
>>> I wi

Re: I am frustrated.

2015-10-16 Thread Les Kriegler

Don't you have a focus display? I thought the eight key represented the enter 
key or does that just working windows?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 16, 2015, at 12:54 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Both dots 1 5 space, and dot 8 space, the two enter commands on the braille 
> keyboard, send the message. It does not appear to be possible to place an 
> enter character in a message using a braille display keyboard. 
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 17 Oct 2015, at 05:09, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Well, I have fixed most issues with the Braille accept for the text 
>> messaging issue. So if anyone can tell me why I may not be able to do a new 
>> line when composing an I message or text, then I will fix it. 
>> 
>> Thanks again. I really do rely on Braille as I can't remember any important 
>> information without it. Wonder if that's old fashioned! 
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 4:32 p.m., Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Thuy. 
>>> 
>>> I have turned the cells off and have set it up like David says. When I 
>>> write, and stop, there is a FOR sign which goes away when the words get 
>>> translated but at least it works as it should now! So how does one do a new 
>>> line if one is writing a message as when I do chord e, the message gets 
>>> sent rather than a new line is the message. Or has this been fixed now?
>>> 
>>> Thuy, I set this I phone up as a new phone as I am using the 6 S plus.
>>> 
>>> Thanks both for your valued help.
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 16 Oct 2015, at 3:05 p.m., Thuy Mallalieu  wrote:
 
 Hi Kawal. I wonder if the status cell 
 has been switched on by mistake? I remember in an older version of ios 
 that used to crash if the status cell is on. I wonder if the restore from 
 backup didn't bring across althe settings properly. Try setting it up with 
 the speech and maybe forget the device and try pairing it again. Hope you 
 can get it to work ok. I know how frustrating it is, especially when you 
 get so reliant on using the braille.
 Cheers
 Thuy
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 16 Oct 2015, at 13:54, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone.
> 
> I am very frustrated with my Braille display.
> 
> For some reason, it works for a short while on my iPhone, and then it 
> stops. Also, when I input the text, if I write three words, two words 
> show.
> 
> I am away this weekend from my computer, so have to use the Braille 
> display and my iPhone.
> 
> What I don't understand is, why everyone else says they can use their 
> braille display, and I cannot? 
> Normally, I have been very good with a  Braille display and could use it 
> with my iPhone, and I was using it with no problem when using the iPhone 
> when the last iOS was out.
> 
> Normally, I have always been able to use the Braille display successfully.
> 
> I am dictating this message because I cannot use Braille display very 
> well.
> 
> Also, when I write a message, when in the text messing app, if I press 
> the enter key, it sends the message rather than making a new line. I have 
> checked the settings in accessibility and wonder what else I am missing? 
> Also I write contracted and it appears in grade 1. If I have done 
> something or missed another step in this process, please enlighten me as 
> I cannot input braille using my hands as they hurt after a while so I 
> need to use this display. So help!
> 
> The way to go onone's birthday! ☺️
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: I am frustrated.

I have a focus Braille display and chord e is the enter key as well as chord 8.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 16 Oct 2015, at 6:28 p.m., Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
> Don't you have a focus display? I thought the eight key represented the enter 
> key or does that just working windows?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 12:54 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Both dots 1 5 space, and dot 8 space, the two enter commands on the braille 
>> keyboard, send the message. It does not appear to be possible to place an 
>> enter character in a message using a braille display keyboard. 
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 17 Oct 2015, at 05:09, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well, I have fixed most issues with the Braille accept for the text 
>>> messaging issue. So if anyone can tell me why I may not be able to do a new 
>>> line when composing an I message or text, then I will fix it. 
>>> 
>>> Thanks again. I really do rely on Braille as I can't remember any important 
>>> information without it. Wonder if that's old fashioned! 
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 16 Oct 2015, at 4:32 p.m., Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 Hi Thuy. 
 
 I have turned the cells off and have set it up like David says. When I 
 write, and stop, there is a FOR sign which goes away when the words get 
 translated but at least it works as it should now! So how does one do a 
 new line if one is writing a message as when I do chord e, the message 
 gets sent rather than a new line is the message. Or has this been fixed 
 now?
 
 Thuy, I set this I phone up as a new phone as I am using the 6 S plus.
 
 Thanks both for your valued help.
 
 Kawal.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 16 Oct 2015, at 3:05 p.m., Thuy Mallalieu  wrote:
> 
> Hi Kawal. I wonder if the status cell 
> has been switched on by mistake? I remember in an older version of ios 
> that used to crash if the status cell is on. I wonder if the restore from 
> backup didn't bring across althe settings properly. Try setting it up 
> with the speech and maybe forget the device and try pairing it again. 
> Hope you can get it to work ok. I know how frustrating it is, especially 
> when you get so reliant on using the braille.
> Cheers
> Thuy
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 13:54, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello everyone.
>> 
>> I am very frustrated with my Braille display.
>> 
>> For some reason, it works for a short while on my iPhone, and then it 
>> stops. Also, when I input the text, if I write three words, two words 
>> show.
>> 
>> I am away this weekend from my computer, so have to use the Braille 
>> display and my iPhone.
>> 
>> What I don't understand is, why everyone else says they can use their 
>> braille display, and I cannot? 
>> Normally, I have been very good with a  Braille display and could use it 
>> with my iPhone, and I was using it with no problem when using the iPhone 
>> when the last iOS was out.
>> 
>> Normally, I have always been able to use the Braille display 
>> successfully.
>> 
>> I am dictating this message because I cannot use Braille display very 
>> well.
>> 
>> Also, when I write a message, when in the text messing app, if I press 
>> the enter key, it sends the message rather than making a new line. I 
>> have checked the settings in accessibility and wonder what else I am 
>> missing? Also I write contracted and it appears in grade 1. If I have 
>> done something or missed another step in this process, please enlighten 
>> me as I cannot input braille using my hands as they hurt after a while 
>> so I need to use this display. So help!
>> 
>> The way to go onone's birthday! ☺️
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
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Re: I am frustrated.

2015-10-16 Thread Les Kriegler

OK, because it least and windows, the dock can be used without the cord. That 
will emulate a return command.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 16, 2015, at 1:40 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> I have a focus Braille display and chord e is the enter key as well as chord 
> 8.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 6:28 p.m., Les Kriegler  wrote:
>> 
>> Don't you have a focus display? I thought the eight key represented the 
>> enter key or does that just working windows?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 12:54 PM, David Chittenden  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> Both dots 1 5 space, and dot 8 space, the two enter commands on the braille 
>>> keyboard, send the message. It does not appear to be possible to place an 
>>> enter character in a message using a braille display keyboard. 
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 17 Oct 2015, at 05:09, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 Well, I have fixed most issues with the Braille accept for the text 
 messaging issue. So if anyone can tell me why I may not be able to do a 
 new line when composing an I message or text, then I will fix it. 
 
 Thanks again. I really do rely on Braille as I can't remember any 
 important information without it. Wonder if that's old fashioned! 
 
 Kawal.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 16 Oct 2015, at 4:32 p.m., Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi Thuy. 
> 
> I have turned the cells off and have set it up like David says. When I 
> write, and stop, there is a FOR sign which goes away when the words get 
> translated but at least it works as it should now! So how does one do a 
> new line if one is writing a message as when I do chord e, the message 
> gets sent rather than a new line is the message. Or has this been fixed 
> now?
> 
> Thuy, I set this I phone up as a new phone as I am using the 6 S plus.
> 
> Thanks both for your valued help.
> 
> Kawal.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 3:05 p.m., Thuy Mallalieu  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Kawal. I wonder if the status cell 
>> has been switched on by mistake? I remember in an older version of ios 
>> that used to crash if the status cell is on. I wonder if the restore 
>> from backup didn't bring across althe settings properly. Try setting it 
>> up with the speech and maybe forget the device and try pairing it again. 
>> Hope you can get it to work ok. I know how frustrating it is, especially 
>> when you get so reliant on using the braille.
>> Cheers
>> Thuy
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 13:54, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello everyone.
>>> 
>>> I am very frustrated with my Braille display.
>>> 
>>> For some reason, it works for a short while on my iPhone, and then it 
>>> stops. Also, when I input the text, if I write three words, two words 
>>> show.
>>> 
>>> I am away this weekend from my computer, so have to use the Braille 
>>> display and my iPhone.
>>> 
>>> What I don't understand is, why everyone else says they can use their 
>>> braille display, and I cannot? 
>>> Normally, I have been very good with a  Braille display and could use 
>>> it with my iPhone, and I was using it with no problem when using the 
>>> iPhone when the last iOS was out.
>>> 
>>> Normally, I have always been able to use the Braille display 
>>> successfully.
>>> 
>>> I am dictating this message because I cannot use Braille display very 
>>> well.
>>> 
>>> Also, when I write a message, when in the text messing app, if I press 
>>> the enter key, it sends the message rather than making a new line. I 
>>> have checked the settings in accessibility and wonder what else I am 
>>> missing? Also I write contracted and it appears in grade 1. If I have 
>>> done something or missed another step in this process, please enlighten 
>>> me as I cannot input braille using my hands as they hurt after a while 
>>> so I need to use this display. So help!
>>> 
>>> The way to go onone's birthday! ☺️
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" gr

unable to edit internal server info for my Exchange account

2015-10-16 Thread Donna Goodin

Hi all,

I need to change the server info for my Exchange account, but mail won't let me 
edit the server field.  Does anyone know how I can make Mail let me do this?  
I'm still running Yosemite.
TIA,
Donna

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RE: unable to edit internal server info for my Exchange account

2015-10-16 Thread george b

Open mail and then go to prefferences and then find your account in there and 
edit it

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 11:03
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: unable to edit internal server info for my Exchange account

Hi all,

I need to change the server info for my Exchange account, but mail won't let me 
edit the server field.  Does anyone know how I can make Mail let me do this?  
I'm still running Yosemite.
TIA,
Donna

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Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

I to agree even with all the awful bugs in El Capitan that Apple is still the 
best game in town. It is just very frustrating. Could you imagine if Apple 
released an operating system where the new browser, new mail program, and app 
store did not work with VO, oh my would these boards be alive. Now Apple once 
again took a major step backwards with the serious bugs in El Capitan, and I am 
off to go finish backing up now then probably start my rollback to Yosemite. 
> On Oct 16, 2015, at 1:21 PM, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> Furthermore, the Mac cannot even handle the filesystem of the new VarioUltra, 
> the display I have, although the braille display can't emulate keyboard 
> commands on the iPhone, so I now use my keys to go keyboard a lot 
> more.Anyways, I might use the Mac for pages, as scanning back and forth for 
> spelling errors is literally the best feature of voiceover for me.Gosh, if 
> the Mac were more stable for me, and had less voiceover bugs, I'd happily use 
> it a lot more. But for now, the iPhone is all I really use.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 11:18 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> The only problem is that Jaws costs a lot of money and Voice Over comes with 
>> the Mac and has no ILM life. I have thought about getting a small windows 
>> lap top but haven't done anything about it as yet. I do wish there was 
>> better Braille sufport on the Mac. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 4:46 p.m., Devin Prater  wrote:
>>> 
>>> They should really hire a blind software engineer. I think that's about the 
>>> only way we'll get any progress.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 16, 2015, at 2:20 AM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
 
 Hey guy,
 
 Thanks so much for pointing out this is why it is great to wait to the 
 next version of an operating system comes out. Wow, what a original novice 
 concept that has never ever been pointed out on this list. 
 
 Ok, now that that is out of the way. I want to thank everyone who has 
 posted about their issues with safari in El Capitan the IOS 8 for VO users 
 on the mac. Holy cow, Apple what a crap operating system. Thankfully I 
 will be rolling back this weekend. Just need to do some more backups. 
 Seriously, I love Apple, but you got to call them out when they shit the 
 bed and El Capitan is just that. Apple claimed IOS 9 and El Capitan were 
 going to be focused on Quality Control instead of fancy new things. Well, 
 how can Apple expect any VO user that they seriously test VO when safari 
 on a lot of websites is absolutely unusable. It is great that VO seems to 
 be much snappier but with it constantly crashing and turning on and off it 
 is unusable, and I am finding the same issue in chrome on the same 
 websites so it is definitely VO.
 
 Another issue which I have not seen posted is how VO just does not read 
 things. For example go through your contact list in contacts and you will 
 constantly have to go back up to a previous contact and then back down 
 again to get VO to read it. These two issues alone are so severe that 
 Apple should fire anyone doing Quality Control for VO or they just do not 
 care about the quality of it. Very disappointed in Apple again.
> On Oct 15, 2015, at 10:30 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> This is why it’s always best to wait until at least the first, and 
> sometimes the second major update before installing a new version of the 
> operating system, let the major bugs get worked out first.
>> On Oct 15, 2015, at 5:42 PM, Sadam Ahmed  wrote:
>> 
>> This is why I have Rolled back  to Yosemite. 
>> 
>> These are some of the worst bugs I've seen since I started using the Mac 
>> back in 2010. 
>> 
>> Won't be updating until a  update comes out to address these problems. 
>> 
>> Yours truly, 
>> 
>> Sadam Ahmed 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 9:16 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is that with the official build, or is that with the private beta?  I 
>>> confess I really haven't tried doing anything with Safari over there 
>>> since I finally got successfully updated.  How are people getting 
>>> around this being that surfing the web is so heavily done now adays 
>>> with computers?  Are folks just using Crome instead?  What about 
>>> Webkit?  Is it any better?
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> - Original Message - From: "Daniel Miller" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 6:12 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Safari on 10.11 is pretty pathetic right now. It’s the worst experience 
>>> I’ve ever had while using OS X.
>>> 
 On Oct 15, 2015, at 4:41 PM, Kawal Guc

Re: unable to edit internal server info for my Exchange account

2015-10-16 Thread Donna Goodin

That's precisely my point.  I'm in prefs, have the account selected, but I 
can't even get the cursor to go into the server field, and it doesn't matter 
whether I use Tab or VO-Arrow keys.
Donna
> On Oct 16, 2015, at 1:04 PM, george b  wrote:
> 
> Open mail and then go to prefferences and then find your account in there and 
> edit it
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 11:03
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: unable to edit internal server info for my Exchange account
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I need to change the server info for my Exchange account, but mail won't let 
> me edit the server field.  Does anyone know how I can make Mail let me do 
> this?  I'm still running Yosemite.
> TIA,
> Donna
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
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Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

2015-10-16 Thread 'Kevin Cussick' via MacVisionaries

Mike I agree fully,   I still like window’s more than the mac at this time but 
getting there now having a few problems with the latest incarnation of 
thunderbird!  so use the mac for mail more and more anyway will leave it at 
that as don’t really want to get into the window’s is better than the mac and 
vice versa have a good weekend all.
> On 16 Oct 2015, at 18:05, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> I do think Apple is more committed to accessibility than Microsoft, but in 
> the last couple years, Apple's quality control has really suffered, and 
> that's the real issue, they release products without fully testing them. 
> Regarding Windows screen readers, there really is no reason to pay for 
> expensive screen readers anymore. NVDA works very well, and if you have a 
> recent version of Microsoft Office, you can use Window Eyes for free. To pay 
> for Jaws now is simply a waste of money.
> Original message:
>> Jaws is not the only game in town for windows. There is nvda, which is quite 
>> respectable these days. The argument that you get a freebie with a Mac and 
>> Windows screen readers are expensive just doesn't cut it anymore, especially 
>> with Apple producing but here releases of OS X when they are supposed to be 
>> "rock solid". I bought my first mac went snow leopard was the current 
>> version of OS X. It was pretty solid. Since then, there certainly have been 
>> improvements in  voiceover features. I still believe it is clear that Apple 
>> has made for more of a commitment to accessibility then has Microsoft. After 
>> all, the new edge browser is totally inaccessible to all but the 
>> experimental support with the latest build of NVDA. However, Apple is quite 
>> open about this commitment, therefore, they have set themselves a higher 
>> standard. And they are not meeting it with this new release. When they 
>> release a product with serious voiceover issues, they are sending a message 
>> that their commitment to accessibility is not quite up to the standard of 
>> their commitment to those who do not need accessibility features. Is that 
>> really what they want to do?
>> Mary
> 
> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 9:18 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
>>> The only problem is that Jaws costs a lot of money and Voice Over comes 
>>> with the Mac and has no ILM life. I have thought about getting a small 
>>> windows lap top but haven't done anything about it as yet. I do wish there 
>>> was better Braille sufport on the Mac.
> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
 On 16 Oct 2015, at 4:46 p.m., Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
 They should really hire a blind software engineer. I think that's about 
 the only way we'll get any progress.
> 
 Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 16, 2015, at 2:20 AM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
> 
> Hey guy,
> 
> Thanks so much for pointing out this is why it is great to wait to the 
> next version of an operating system comes out. Wow, what a original 
> novice concept that has never ever been pointed out on this list.
> 
> Ok, now that that is out of the way. I want to thank everyone who has 
> posted about their issues with safari in El Capitan the IOS 8 for VO 
> users on the mac. Holy cow, Apple what a crap operating system. 
> Thankfully I will be rolling back this weekend. Just need to do some more 
> backups. Seriously, I love Apple, but you got to call them out when they 
> shit the bed and El Capitan is just that. Apple claimed IOS 9 and El 
> Capitan were going to be focused on Quality Control instead of fancy new 
> things. Well, how can Apple expect any VO user that they seriously test 
> VO when safari on a lot of websites is absolutely unusable. It is great 
> that VO seems to be much snappier but with it constantly crashing and 
> turning on and off it is unusable, and I am finding the same issue in 
> chrome on the same websites so it is definitely VO.
> 
> Another issue which I have not seen posted is how VO just does not read 
> things. For example go through your contact list in contacts and you will 
> constantly have to go back up to a previous contact and then back down 
> again to get VO to read it. These two issues alone are so severe that 
> Apple should fire anyone doing Quality Control for VO or they just do not 
> care about the quality of it. Very disappointed in Apple again.
>> On Oct 15, 2015, at 10:30 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
>> This is why it’s always best to wait until at least the first, and 
>> sometimes the second major update before installing a new version of the 
>> operating system, let the major bugs get worked out first.
>>> On Oct 15, 2015, at 5:42 PM, Sadam Ahmed  wrote:
> 
>>> This is why I have Rolled back  to Yosemite.
> 
>>> These are some of the worst bugs I've seen since I started using the 
>>> Mac back in 2010.
> 
>>> Won't be updating until a  update comes out to address these

Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

2015-10-16 Thread CJ Daniel

Hey Brian,

Have a little respect.  Mike was leading the pack on using the Mac & VoiceOver 
in it’s infancy.  Further more, he had the generosity to turn his explorations 
in to audible tutorials that were available to anyone.  Actually, I seem to 
remember there were eight of them.  Many Mac users, today, owe there knowledge 
of the OS X operating system to Mike’s tutorials.  In fact, I’m one of them & 
I’d bet there’s a lot more on this list.  He was just offering his opinion, 
regarding rushing to upgrading when a new major OS X release comes out.  FYI, 
I’m not experiencing any problems with the new release…probably because I 
decided to wait @ least to revisions.

With merth,

CJ


> On Oct 16, 2015, at 12:20 AM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
> 
> Hey guy,
> 
> Thanks so much for pointing out this is why it is great to wait to the next 
> version of an operating system comes out. Wow, what a original novice concept 
> that has never ever been pointed out on this list. 
> 
> Ok, now that that is out of the way. I want to thank everyone who has posted 
> about their issues with safari in El Capitan the IOS 8 for VO users on the 
> mac. Holy cow, Apple what a crap operating system. Thankfully I will be 
> rolling back this weekend. Just need to do some more backups. Seriously, I 
> love Apple, but you got to call them out when they shit the bed and El 
> Capitan is just that. Apple claimed IOS 9 and El Capitan were going to be 
> focused on Quality Control instead of fancy new things. Well, how can Apple 
> expect any VO user that they seriously test VO when safari on a lot of 
> websites is absolutely unusable. It is great that VO seems to be much 
> snappier but with it constantly crashing and turning on and off it is 
> unusable, and I am finding the same issue in chrome on the same websites so 
> it is definitely VO.
> 
> Another issue which I have not seen posted is how VO just does not read 
> things. For example go through your contact list in contacts and you will 
> constantly have to go back up to a previous contact and then back down again 
> to get VO to read it. These two issues alone are so severe that Apple should 
> fire anyone doing Quality Control for VO or they just do not care about the 
> quality of it. Very disappointed in Apple again.
>> On Oct 15, 2015, at 10:30 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>> This is why it’s always best to wait until at least the first, and sometimes 
>> the second major update before installing a new version of the operating 
>> system, let the major bugs get worked out first.
>>> On Oct 15, 2015, at 5:42 PM, Sadam Ahmed  wrote:
>>> 
>>> This is why I have Rolled back  to Yosemite. 
>>> 
>>> These are some of the worst bugs I've seen since I started using the Mac 
>>> back in 2010. 
>>> 
>>> Won't be updating until a  update comes out to address these problems. 
>>> 
>>> Yours truly, 
>>> 
>>> Sadam Ahmed 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 16 Oct 2015, at 9:16 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
  wrote:
 
 Is that with the official build, or is that with the private beta?  I 
 confess I really haven't tried doing anything with Safari over there since 
 I finally got successfully updated.  How are people getting around this 
 being that surfing the web is so heavily done now adays with computers?  
 Are folks just using Crome instead?  What about Webkit?  Is it any better?
 
 Chris.
 
 - Original Message - From: "Daniel Miller" 
 To: 
 Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 6:12 PM
 Subject: Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?
 
 
 Hi,
 
 Safari on 10.11 is pretty pathetic right now. It’s the worst experience 
 I’ve ever had while using OS X.
 
> On Oct 15, 2015, at 4:41 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hello.
> 
> Just been using Safari as I went to the online RNIB library catalogue. 
> Safari is terrible on that website and I wonder if Safari is broken?  
> Once I sign in and browse for books either in braille or for Talking 
> books, Safari won’t read the search results as it keeps saying dialogue.  
> Also I am going to try out Overdrive again in due course so I hope it’s 
> been fixed with IOS9 as I had problems with it when I tried it on the I 
> phone 6 Plus.  Now I am using the 6 Plus S wonder if it will improve.
> 
> I wish I could get rid of the favourites bar in safari and get it back to 
> how it was when I was using it in Yosemite.  I apologise if I have 
> misspelt the name wrong again but I try to spell it wright.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Kawal.
> 
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Re: I am frustrated.

When I used windows, it was always dot 8 cord (with space) for enter. I doubt 
that has changed. Dot 8, by itself, is a specific accented character in 
computer braille.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 17 Oct 2015, at 06:49, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
> OK, because it least and windows, the dock can be used without the cord. That 
> will emulate a return command.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 1:40 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> I have a focus Braille display and chord e is the enter key as well as chord 
>> 8.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 6:28 p.m., Les Kriegler  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Don't you have a focus display? I thought the eight key represented the 
>>> enter key or does that just working windows?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 16, 2015, at 12:54 PM, David Chittenden  
 wrote:

 Hello,

 Both dots 1 5 space, and dot 8 space, the two enter commands on the 
 braille keyboard, send the message. It does not appear to be possible to 
 place an enter character in a message using a braille display keyboard. 

 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
 Sent from my iPhone

> On 17 Oct 2015, at 05:09, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Well, I have fixed most issues with the Braille accept for the text 
> messaging issue. So if anyone can tell me why I may not be able to do a 
> new line when composing an I message or text, then I will fix it. 
> 
> Thanks again. I really do rely on Braille as I can't remember any 
> important information without it. Wonder if that's old fashioned! 
> 
> Kawal.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 4:32 p.m., Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Thuy. 
>> 
>> I have turned the cells off and have set it up like David says. When I 
>> write, and stop, there is a FOR sign which goes away when the words get 
>> translated but at least it works as it should now! So how does one do a 
>> new line if one is writing a message as when I do chord e, the message 
>> gets sent rather than a new line is the message. Or has this been fixed 
>> now?
>> 
>> Thuy, I set this I phone up as a new phone as I am using the 6 S plus.
>> 
>> Thanks both for your valued help.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 3:05 p.m., Thuy Mallalieu  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Kawal. I wonder if the status cell 
>>> has been switched on by mistake? I remember in an older version of ios 
>>> that used to crash if the status cell is on. I wonder if the restore 
>>> from backup didn't bring across althe settings properly. Try setting it 
>>> up with the speech and maybe forget the device and try pairing it 
>>> again. Hope you can get it to work ok. I know how frustrating it is, 
>>> especially when you get so reliant on using the braille.
>>> Cheers
>>> Thuy
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 16 Oct 2015, at 13:54, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

 Hello everyone.

 I am very frustrated with my Braille display.

 For some reason, it works for a short while on my iPhone, and then it 
 stops. Also, when I input the text, if I write three words, two words 
 show.

 I am away this weekend from my computer, so have to use the Braille 
 display and my iPhone.

 What I don't understand is, why everyone else says they can use their 
 braille display, and I cannot? 
 Normally, I have been very good with a  Braille display and could use 
 it with my iPhone, and I was using it with no problem when using the 
 iPhone when the last iOS was out.

 Normally, I have always been able to use the Braille display 
 successfully.

 I am dictating this message because I cannot use Braille display very 
 well.

 Also, when I write a message, when in the text messing app, if I press 
 the enter key, it sends the message rather than making a new line. I 
 have checked the settings in accessibility and wonder what else I am 
 missing? Also I write contracted and it appears in grade 1. If I have 
 done something or missed another step in this process, please 
 enlighten me as I cannot input braille using my hands as they hurt 
 after a while so I need to use this display. So help!

 The way to go onone's birthday! ☺️

 Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

Is the Vario file system like braille note and braille sense? If so, it is 
probably running Windows CE 6, the last windows mobile system that was 
accessible. Note: that system was new in 2007.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 17 Oct 2015, at 06:21, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> Furthermore, the Mac cannot even handle the filesystem of the new VarioUltra, 
> the display I have, although the braille display can't emulate keyboard 
> commands on the iPhone, so I now use my keys to go keyboard a lot 
> more.Anyways, I might use the Mac for pages, as scanning back and forth for 
> spelling errors is literally the best feature of voiceover for me.Gosh, if 
> the Mac were more stable for me, and had less voiceover bugs, I'd happily use 
> it a lot more. But for now, the iPhone is all I really use.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 11:18 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> The only problem is that Jaws costs a lot of money and Voice Over comes with 
>> the Mac and has no ILM life. I have thought about getting a small windows 
>> lap top but haven't done anything about it as yet. I do wish there was 
>> better Braille sufport on the Mac. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 4:46 p.m., Devin Prater  wrote:
>>> 
>>> They should really hire a blind software engineer. I think that's about the 
>>> only way we'll get any progress.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 16, 2015, at 2:20 AM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
 
 Hey guy,
 
 Thanks so much for pointing out this is why it is great to wait to the 
 next version of an operating system comes out. Wow, what a original novice 
 concept that has never ever been pointed out on this list. 
 
 Ok, now that that is out of the way. I want to thank everyone who has 
 posted about their issues with safari in El Capitan the IOS 8 for VO users 
 on the mac. Holy cow, Apple what a crap operating system. Thankfully I 
 will be rolling back this weekend. Just need to do some more backups. 
 Seriously, I love Apple, but you got to call them out when they shit the 
 bed and El Capitan is just that. Apple claimed IOS 9 and El Capitan were 
 going to be focused on Quality Control instead of fancy new things. Well, 
 how can Apple expect any VO user that they seriously test VO when safari 
 on a lot of websites is absolutely unusable. It is great that VO seems to 
 be much snappier but with it constantly crashing and turning on and off it 
 is unusable, and I am finding the same issue in chrome on the same 
 websites so it is definitely VO.
 
 Another issue which I have not seen posted is how VO just does not read 
 things. For example go through your contact list in contacts and you will 
 constantly have to go back up to a previous contact and then back down 
 again to get VO to read it. These two issues alone are so severe that 
 Apple should fire anyone doing Quality Control for VO or they just do not 
 care about the quality of it. Very disappointed in Apple again.
> On Oct 15, 2015, at 10:30 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> This is why it’s always best to wait until at least the first, and 
> sometimes the second major update before installing a new version of the 
> operating system, let the major bugs get worked out first.
>> On Oct 15, 2015, at 5:42 PM, Sadam Ahmed  wrote:
>> 
>> This is why I have Rolled back  to Yosemite. 
>> 
>> These are some of the worst bugs I've seen since I started using the Mac 
>> back in 2010. 
>> 
>> Won't be updating until a  update comes out to address these problems. 
>> 
>> Yours truly, 
>> 
>> Sadam Ahmed 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 9:16 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is that with the official build, or is that with the private beta?  I 
>>> confess I really haven't tried doing anything with Safari over there 
>>> since I finally got successfully updated.  How are people getting 
>>> around this being that surfing the web is so heavily done now adays 
>>> with computers?  Are folks just using Crome instead?  What about 
>>> Webkit?  Is it any better?
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> - Original Message - From: "Daniel Miller" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 6:12 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Safari on 10.11 is pretty pathetic right now. It’s the worst experience 
>>> I’ve ever had while using OS X.
>>> 
 On Oct 15, 2015, at 4:41 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  
 wrote:
 
 Hello.
 
 Just been using Safari as I went to the online RNIB library catalogue. 
 Safari is terrible on tha

Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

Well, much as I love the Open Sorcery in the fundamentals of OS X, I think 
blind software engineers aren’t likely, if for no other reason than that most 
of Apple’s development methodology is sadly inherently visual.  Xcode promises 
to get better but unlike on Windows we realistically can’t draw our own user 
interfaces yet.

Then again, a blind tester—probably just one blind tester—would already have 
identified half the bugs already identified on this list.  So yeah, they should 
hire a blind Mac something.

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Is there a command to move keyboard focus to the mouse?

2015-10-16 Thread Donna Goodin

Hi all,

Still working on my Exchange issue.  Is there a way to force the keyboard focus 
to go to where the mouse is?
TIA,
Donna

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How do I Save An Attachment In Messages App

Hi all. Someone texted me a picture and I'd like to be able to save it with the 
Messages app on the Mac. Is this possible or will I have to transfer it from my 
iPhone to my Mac? Thanks.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

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Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

Paying for jaws isn't a waist of money, if your company uses propriatary 
software which no one seems to want to make an addon for in NVDA, therefore, 
the only way to use the thing is to get custom jaws scripts made.


Anyway, that's neither here nor there for this list.  Just keep that in mind 
though.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Arrigo" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?


I do think Apple is more committed to accessibility than Microsoft, but
in the last couple years, Apple's quality control has really suffered,
and that's the real issue, they release products without fully testing
them. Regarding Windows screen readers, there really is no reason to
pay for expensive screen readers anymore. NVDA works very well, and if
you have a recent version of Microsoft Office, you can use Window Eyes
for free. To pay for Jaws now is simply a waste of money.
Original message:
Jaws is not the only game in town for windows. There is nvda, which is 
quite respectable these days. The argument that you get a freebie with a 
Mac and Windows screen readers are expensive just doesn't cut it anymore, 
especially with Apple producing but here releases of OS X when they are 
supposed to be "rock solid". I bought my first mac went snow leopard was 
the current version of OS X. It was pretty solid. Since then, there 
certainly have been improvements in  voiceover features. I still believe 
it is clear that Apple has made for more of a commitment to accessibility 
then has Microsoft. After all, the new edge browser is totally 
inaccessible to all but the experimental support with the latest build of 
NVDA. However, Apple is quite open about this commitment, therefore, they 
have set themselves a higher standard. And they are not meeting it with 
this new release. When they release a product with serious voiceover 
issues, they are sending a message that their commitment to accessibility 
is not quite up to the standard of their commitment to those who do not 
need accessibility features. Is that really what they want to do?

Mary




Sent from my iPhone



On Oct 16, 2015, at 9:18 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:


The only problem is that Jaws costs a lot of money and Voice Over comes 
with the Mac and has no ILM life. I have thought about getting a small 
windows lap top but haven't done anything about it as yet. I do wish 
there was better Braille sufport on the Mac.



Sent from my iPhone



On 16 Oct 2015, at 4:46 p.m., Devin Prater  wrote:


They should really hire a blind software engineer. I think that's about 
the only way we'll get any progress.



Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 16, 2015, at 2:20 AM, Brian Fischler  
wrote:



Hey guy,


Thanks so much for pointing out this is why it is great to wait to the 
next version of an operating system comes out. Wow, what a original 
novice concept that has never ever been pointed out on this list.


Ok, now that that is out of the way. I want to thank everyone who has 
posted about their issues with safari in El Capitan the IOS 8 for VO 
users on the mac. Holy cow, Apple what a crap operating system. 
Thankfully I will be rolling back this weekend. Just need to do some 
more backups. Seriously, I love Apple, but you got to call them out 
when they shit the bed and El Capitan is just that. Apple claimed IOS 9 
and El Capitan were going to be focused on Quality Control instead of 
fancy new things. Well, how can Apple expect any VO user that they 
seriously test VO when safari on a lot of websites is absolutely 
unusable. It is great that VO seems to be much snappier but with it 
constantly crashing and turning on and off it is unusable, and I am 
finding the same issue in chrome on the same websites so it is 
definitely VO.


Another issue which I have not seen posted is how VO just does not read 
things. For example go through your contact list in contacts and you 
will constantly have to go back up to a previous contact and then back 
down again to get VO to read it. These two issues alone are so severe 
that Apple should fire anyone doing Quality Control for VO or they just 
do not care about the quality of it. Very disappointed in Apple again.

On Oct 15, 2015, at 10:30 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:


This is why it’s always best to wait until at least the first, and 
sometimes the second major update before installing a new version of 
the operating system, let the major bugs get worked out first.
On Oct 15, 2015, at 5:42 PM, Sadam Ahmed  
wrote:



This is why I have Rolled back  to Yosemite.


These are some of the worst bugs I've seen since I started using the 
Mac back in 2010.


Won't be updating until a  update comes out to address these 
problems.



Yours truly,



Sadam Ahmed



Sent from my iPhone



--




On 16 Oct 2015, at 9:16 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


Is that with the official build, or is that with the private beta? 
I confess I really haven't tried doing anything with Safa

Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

I sadly disagree that NVDA is competent enough to replace JAWS or Window-Eyes.  
Getting there as more and more apps are supported, for sure, but not there yet; 
that’s simply not how the Windows ecosystem works in practice, in my 
experience.  The Mac has a large body of natively Cocoa software across the 
board; the Windows routinely has non-native Win32 apps, albeit a much larger 
number of apps overall.  For portable apps, Windows generally wins, though not 
by a very wide margin, and then only because that is where energy is directed 
for accessibility purposes.  So, yes, I think you do still get more for your 
money with a Mac, just now anyway.

I’m staying with Mac for the moment.  I keep trying to love modern-day Windows 
but it never loves me back.  Maybe Windows 8.1 with Classic Shell, after I’ve 
buggered about with it for a month trying to make it suck less?  Win7 is 
impossible after you’ve used Win8, IMO.  But OS X is still superior to both, 
technically and for the user experience.  It’s just that Apple’s technical 
excellence is turning to mediocrity and its accessibility experience for Mac 
users is, to be charitable, lacklustre compared to iOS or even the golden age 
of VoiceOver (Leopard and Snow Leopard).  The only real reason to recommend Mac 
now is that it isn’t Windows, or that it is the least bad.  Not good.

We have always, as the VI Mac community, been very robustly tolerant of the 
fact that accessibility has been incremental and to a certain extent have 
always had to make compromises (think the dock and iTunes in the early days, 
Flash on websites, or until recently Menu Extras).  I like to think that we’re 
a more forgiving, adept bunch, willing to take risks and survive in brave new 
waters.  It’s just that, now, fundamental issues are cropping up and it’s 
having real, everyday effects on productivity.  And it’s been this way for 
three releases.  Nobody would be complaining if they didn’t.  Let’s be careful 
not to overstate the problem, though.  I can’t decide whether people choose to 
go back to Windows but I’m definitely sympathetic to those who have given 
strong thoughts to it, because I’m very definitely one of them.  I report bugs 
to Apple and I hope you do too.  If we get the gumption to report bugs and they 
aren’t getting fixed, and if accessibility needs to meet a standard of access 
that it no longer meets, then I for one would feel justified in switching back. 
 It might not be the golden age we’d be hoping for but it’d certainly be better 
than living with the uncertainty of whether Apple is truly committed to 
accessibility on OS X.  It is better for all of us if we decide what we want 
and command Apple to reach that standard.  Until then, perhaps out of sheer 
naivety or because of my love for the platform independent of accessibility, 
I’m really reluctant to move.

Then again, I agree that system-wide spell check is wonderful.  Gosh, I would 
miss that badly on Windows …

Just my thoughts.

PS: Oh look, composing this missive is made needlessly hard by the VO cursor 
not tracking the system caret properly.  I think that bug is from Yosemite, 
actually.  What a surprise …

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Re: How do I Save An Attachment In Messages App

2015-10-16 Thread Alex Hall

I believe you can find the attachment in the HTML area of Messages, then hit 
vo-shift-m and choose the option you want from there. If that fails, let me 
know; I rarely deal with images in Messages, and never want to save them, so 
I'm having a guess here.
> On Oct 16, 2015, at 17:52, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hi all. Someone texted me a picture and I'd like to be able to save it with 
> the Messages app on the Mac. Is this possible or will I have to transfer it 
> from my iPhone to my Mac? Thanks.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
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Have a great day,
Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com

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RE: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

2015-10-16 Thread matthew dyer

Hi,

I am finding myself  using my windows vm more and more.  I have an hop laptop  
with windows 8.1 and both are very stable.  I have not use mail  on my mac and 
so that is  all for now.

Matthew

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Phil Halton
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 9:30 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

Windows is starting to look like an option again. Glad I never left it and kept 
it as a VM on my MBA. Maybe it's time to get a Windows machine with NVDA and 
Jaws 

Sent from my IPhone


> On Oct 16, 2015, at 4:31 AM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
> 
> Oh yeah, and I can’t tell you how much I love the new mail bug when I delete 
> a thread of messages and then a few minutes later a error message pops up 
> telling me the previous batch of messages can’t be moved to the trash. Way to 
> go Apple that is an impressive one. Why would anyone want to delete messages 
> they have read. 
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 4:20 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> It’s report-a-bug Friday.  Why not send Apple a note? :)
>> 
>> For myself, my El Cap install is back to its old Yosemite ways, with Mail 
>> being back to a crawl with large folders.  I have no idea why, but rolling 
>> back is no option, either.  So, yeah, accept the way things are, and suffer. 
>>  Oh, and tell Apple about it.  Or go back to Windows …
>> 
>> Finally, consider that there are new Macs shipping with El Cap.  It’s 
>> true—we’re the minority.  Let us not forget …
>> 
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WordPress Beta Training, still have 6 spots left

Hey:
I sent a message last week explaining how I’ve created a training platform
walking blind entrepreneurs through the process of installing and configuring
Wordpress from a voiceover users point of view. I also explained that I will be
releasing windows versions of these videos as well in the near future! However
I need beta testers. If you're interested, listen to this audio message to
learn more.
(NOTE: I stated in the audio message i was looking for 10 people, 4 people have
taken me up on this offer, and you could be the next one.)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6285342/Need%20Empowering%20The%20Blind%20Beta%20Testers.m4a

and hear is a sample of the first video, so you can hear some of my trainings
before you take action and decide to get involved:
https://yourownpay.wistia.com/medias/g4dbymi1d8

(I just rerecorded all the 12 videos in place, and will have five more up no
later then tomorrow night).
Finally, hears how you can get access:

http://empoweringtheblind.com/beta/

if you have any problems getting in, email me off list at:
mich...@yourownpay.com
look forward to helping you.

Michael Babcock
Your Blind Digital Marketing Partner.
@payown on periscope and twitter.
http://yourownpay .com/

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Re: How do I Save An Attachment In Messages App

Hey Alex. That didn't work. When I did VO+Shift+M on the image, the only option 
I got was remove chat transcript.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Oct 16, 2015, at 5:36 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> I believe you can find the attachment in the HTML area of Messages, then hit 
> vo-shift-m and choose the option you want from there. If that fails, let me 
> know; I rarely deal with images in Messages, and never want to save them, so 
> I'm having a guess here.
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 17:52, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all. Someone texted me a picture and I'd like to be able to save it with 
>> the Messages app on the Mac. Is this possible or will I have to transfer it 
>> from my iPhone to my Mac? Thanks.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>> -- 
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> 
> 
> --
> Have a great day,
> Alex Hall
> mehg...@icloud.com
> 
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Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Hey all,

So I started my roll back to Yosemite and am stuck. I was able to erase the El 
Crapitan from my hard drive but do not seem to get VO running when I try and 
boot up with my bootable USB Install Yosemite drive. Everything I have read 
says you have to restart your computer and hold the option screen to get to the 
screen with your bootable thumb drive on it. For some reason I am thinking this 
screen might not work with VO as I waited over an hour and could not get VO to 
turn on. Does anyone happen to know how to arrow without VO running to get your 
bootable disc to launch? If not, is there anyway to boot in to your drive using 
disk utility as I am back in disc utility but do not see anywhere I can do this 
and selecting reinstall OS and hitting continue just gives me a you are not 
connected to the internet error message. Thanks for any help.

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Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Don't arrow.  That's your problem.  You wanna hit the tab key when in the 
boot menu.  Tab and shift tab.  Don't arrow.

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Fischler" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:29 PM
Subject: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Hey all,

So I started my roll back to Yosemite and am stuck. I was able to erase the 
El Crapitan from my hard drive but do not seem to get VO running when I try 
and boot up with my bootable USB Install Yosemite drive. Everything I have 
read says you have to restart your computer and hold the option screen to 
get to the screen with your bootable thumb drive on it. For some reason I am 
thinking this screen might not work with VO as I waited over an hour and 
could not get VO to turn on. Does anyone happen to know how to arrow without 
VO running to get your bootable disc to launch? If not, is there anyway to 
boot in to your drive using disk utility as I am back in disc utility but do 
not see anywhere I can do this and selecting reinstall OS and hitting 
continue just gives me a you are not connected to the internet error 
message. Thanks for any help.

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Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Chris,


Just wanted to make sure I have this correct. Start the computer while holding 
down the option key, then hit tab and enter? Is there only one thing I am 
tabbing to? When do I try and turn VO back on? Thanks,
> On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Don't arrow.  That's your problem.  You wanna hit the tab key when in the 
> boot menu.  Tab and shift tab.  Don't arrow.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:29 PM
> Subject: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck
> 
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> So I started my roll back to Yosemite and am stuck. I was able to erase the 
> El Crapitan from my hard drive but do not seem to get VO running when I try 
> and boot up with my bootable USB Install Yosemite drive. Everything I have 
> read says you have to restart your computer and hold the option screen to get 
> to the screen with your bootable thumb drive on it. For some reason I am 
> thinking this screen might not work with VO as I waited over an hour and 
> could not get VO to turn on. Does anyone happen to know how to arrow without 
> VO running to get your bootable disc to launch? If not, is there anyway to 
> boot in to your drive using disk utility as I am back in disc utility but do 
> not see anywhere I can do this and selecting reinstall OS and hitting 
> continue just gives me a you are not connected to the internet error message. 
> Thanks for any help.
> 
> -- 
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Re: How do I Save An Attachment In Messages App

2015-10-16 Thread Alex Hall

Sorry, I'm really not sure then. There's a photo browser in the Details view, 
but I can't figure out a way to save from there either. Has anyone dealt with 
this more extensively than I have? I'm kind of stuck.
> On Oct 16, 2015, at 19:21, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hey Alex. That didn't work. When I did VO+Shift+M on the image, the only 
> option I got was remove chat transcript.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 5:36 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>> 
>> I believe you can find the attachment in the HTML area of Messages, then hit 
>> vo-shift-m and choose the option you want from there. If that fails, let me 
>> know; I rarely deal with images in Messages, and never want to save them, so 
>> I'm having a guess here.
>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 17:52, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all. Someone texted me a picture and I'd like to be able to save it with 
>>> the Messages app on the Mac. Is this possible or will I have to transfer it 
>>> from my iPhone to my Mac? Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Have a great day,
>> Alex Hall
>> mehg...@icloud.com
>> 
>> -- 
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> 
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Have a great day,
Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com

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Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

I cannot tell you if there is only one thing you're tabbing to, or how many 
times to do so.  That depends on how many startup disk volumes are 
configured on your system.


You do have the general idea correct though.

As for when to turn on Voiceover, once the system boots, then turn it on. 
You may have to try several times, but eventually, it should come up.


I hope you're not running into the same nightmare I ran into.

Finally, I wound up having to reformat and just install from scratch with a 
bootable USB drive, and not run a disk backup image.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Fischler" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck


Chris,


Just wanted to make sure I have this correct. Start the computer while 
holding down the option key, then hit tab and enter? Is there only one thing 
I am tabbing to? When do I try and turn VO back on? Thanks,
On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


Don't arrow.  That's your problem.  You wanna hit the tab key when in the 
boot menu.  Tab and shift tab.  Don't arrow.


Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:29 PM
Subject: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck


Hey all,

So I started my roll back to Yosemite and am stuck. I was able to erase 
the El Crapitan from my hard drive but do not seem to get VO running when 
I try and boot up with my bootable USB Install Yosemite drive. Everything 
I have read says you have to restart your computer and hold the option 
screen to get to the screen with your bootable thumb drive on it. For some 
reason I am thinking this screen might not work with VO as I waited over 
an hour and could not get VO to turn on. Does anyone happen to know how to 
arrow without VO running to get your bootable disc to launch? If not, is 
there anyway to boot in to your drive using disk utility as I am back in 
disc utility but do not see anywhere I can do this and selecting reinstall 
OS and hitting continue just gives me a you are not connected to the 
internet error message. Thanks for any help.


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Re: How do I Save An Attachment In Messages App

2015-10-16 Thread michael babcock

use command+c on the image, in messages, then use command+v in the folder on 
the finder you want to save it in.

> On Oct 16, 2015, at 4:52 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> Sorry, I'm really not sure then. There's a photo browser in the Details view, 
> but I can't figure out a way to save from there either. Has anyone dealt with 
> this more extensively than I have? I'm kind of stuck.
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 19:21, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>> 
>> Hey Alex. That didn't work. When I did VO+Shift+M on the image, the only 
>> option I got was remove chat transcript.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 5:36 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I believe you can find the attachment in the HTML area of Messages, then 
>>> hit vo-shift-m and choose the option you want from there. If that fails, 
>>> let me know; I rarely deal with images in Messages, and never want to save 
>>> them, so I'm having a guess here.
 On Oct 16, 2015, at 17:52, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
 
 Hi all. Someone texted me a picture and I'd like to be able to save it 
 with the Messages app on the Mac. Is this possible or will I have to 
 transfer it from my iPhone to my Mac? Thanks.
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook
 Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
 Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
 Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
 Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
 
 -- 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Have a great day,
>>> Alex Hall
>>> mehg...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> 
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> 
> 
> --
> Have a great day,
> Alex Hall
> mehg...@icloud.com
> 
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Re: How do I Save An Attachment In Messages App

use command+c on the image in messages, then command+v in the folder in finder 
you want to save the image in.
hope this helps.

Michael Babcock
Your Blind Digital Marketing Partner.
@payown on periscope and twitter.
http://yourownpay .com/

> On Oct 16, 2015, at 4:52 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> Sorry, I'm really not sure then. There's a photo browser in the Details view, 
> but I can't figure out a way to save from there either. Has anyone dealt with 
> this more extensively than I have? I'm kind of stuck.
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 19:21, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>> 
>> Hey Alex. That didn't work. When I did VO+Shift+M on the image, the only 
>> option I got was remove chat transcript.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 5:36 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I believe you can find the attachment in the HTML area of Messages, then 
>>> hit vo-shift-m and choose the option you want from there. If that fails, 
>>> let me know; I rarely deal with images in Messages, and never want to save 
>>> them, so I'm having a guess here.
 On Oct 16, 2015, at 17:52, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
 
 Hi all. Someone texted me a picture and I'd like to be able to save it 
 with the Messages app on the Mac. Is this possible or will I have to 
 transfer it from my iPhone to my Mac? Thanks.
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook
 Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
 Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
 Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
 Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
 
 -- 
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 Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Have a great day,
>>> Alex Hall
>>> mehg...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> 
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> 
> 
> --
> Have a great day,
> Alex Hall
> mehg...@icloud.com
> 
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Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Chris then how do people say you can do this without sighted help? As I have 
read people have been doing clean installs via a bootable usb drive with VO. 
Thanks,
> On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:57 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> I cannot tell you if there is only one thing you're tabbing to, or how many 
> times to do so.  That depends on how many startup disk volumes are configured 
> on your system.
> 
> You do have the general idea correct though.
> 
> As for when to turn on Voiceover, once the system boots, then turn it on. You 
> may have to try several times, but eventually, it should come up.
> 
> I hope you're not running into the same nightmare I ran into.
> 
> Finally, I wound up having to reformat and just install from scratch with a 
> bootable USB drive, and not run a disk backup image.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:52 PM
> Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck
> 
> 
> Chris,
> 
> 
> Just wanted to make sure I have this correct. Start the computer while 
> holding down the option key, then hit tab and enter? Is there only one thing 
> I am tabbing to? When do I try and turn VO back on? Thanks,
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Don't arrow.  That's your problem.  You wanna hit the tab key when in the 
>> boot menu.  Tab and shift tab.  Don't arrow.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:29 PM
>> Subject: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck
>> 
>> 
>> Hey all,
>> 
>> So I started my roll back to Yosemite and am stuck. I was able to erase the 
>> El Crapitan from my hard drive but do not seem to get VO running when I try 
>> and boot up with my bootable USB Install Yosemite drive. Everything I have 
>> read says you have to restart your computer and hold the option screen to 
>> get to the screen with your bootable thumb drive on it. For some reason I am 
>> thinking this screen might not work with VO as I waited over an hour and 
>> could not get VO to turn on. Does anyone happen to know how to arrow without 
>> VO running to get your bootable disc to launch? If not, is there anyway to 
>> boot in to your drive using disk utility as I am back in disc utility but do 
>> not see anywhere I can do this and selecting reinstall OS and hitting 
>> continue just gives me a you are not connected to the internet error 
>> message. Thanks for any help.
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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> 
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Re: How do I Save An Attachment In Messages App

Hi Michael. Thanks. That worked.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Oct 16, 2015, at 6:59 PM, Michael Babcock  wrote:
> 
> use command+c on the image in messages, then command+v in the folder in 
> finder you want to save the image in.
> hope this helps.
> 
> Michael Babcock
> Your Blind Digital Marketing Partner.
> @payown on periscope and twitter.
> http://yourownpay .com/
> 
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 4:52 PM, Alex Hall > > wrote:
>> 
>> Sorry, I'm really not sure then. There's a photo browser in the Details 
>> view, but I can't figure out a way to save from there either. Has anyone 
>> dealt with this more extensively than I have? I'm kind of stuck.
>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 19:21, Shawn Krasniuk >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hey Alex. That didn't work. When I did VO+Shift+M on the image, the only 
>>> option I got was remove chat transcript.
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>>> 
 On Oct 16, 2015, at 5:36 PM, Alex Hall >>> > wrote:
 
 I believe you can find the attachment in the HTML area of Messages, then 
 hit vo-shift-m and choose the option you want from there. If that fails, 
 let me know; I rarely deal with images in Messages, and never want to save 
 them, so I'm having a guess here.
> On Oct 16, 2015, at 17:52, Shawn Krasniuk  > wrote:
> 
> Hi all. Someone texted me a picture and I'd like to be able to save it 
> with the Messages app on the Mac. Is this possible or will I have to 
> transfer it from my iPhone to my Mac? Thanks.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
> 
> -- 
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> .
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> .
 
 
 --
 Have a great day,
 Alex Hall
 mehg...@icloud.com 
 
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>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Have a great day,
>> Alex Hall
>> mehg...@icloud.com 
>> 
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> 
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RE: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Hello Brian,

I'm not Chris but, as I understand your dilemma, the problem is that you have 
not yet successfully booted into your USB drive.

Normally, I recommend that a blind a low vision person, working alone, use the 
Startup disk option located in the System Preferences, to subsequently boot 
into the USB drive upon restart.  However, it sounds as though you have already 
erased the internal drive so this is not an option.   

Here's how it works:

You must successfully boot into your USB drive in order to enable VoiceOver via 
the key combo Command+F5.  

Do the following:

While the Mac is powered off, hold down the Option key and keep it held down 
until you hear the startup chime; after which, you may release the Option key.  
At this point, you will see a list of all of your bootable devices, connected 
to the Mac.  If, as you say, your internal drive has been erased and is 
therefore not bootable, it will not be listed.  Understand that one cannot use 
VoiceOver in order to select the drive, using this method. You may use the 
arrow keys to highlight any of the items in the list but there is no VoiceOver 
feedback.  Once you select the drive you want, press the Enter key.  It may 
take as long as 5 minutes for the computer to boot into the USB key.  Once it 
does, you can then enable VoiceOver via the key combo Command+F5.

Mark 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Brian Fischler
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 4:52 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Chris,


Just wanted to make sure I have this correct. Start the computer while holding 
down the option key, then hit tab and enter? Is there only one thing I am 
tabbing to? When do I try and turn VO back on? Thanks,
> On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Don't arrow.  That's your problem.  You wanna hit the tab key when in the 
> boot menu.  Tab and shift tab.  Don't arrow.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:29 PM
> Subject: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck
> 
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> So I started my roll back to Yosemite and am stuck. I was able to erase the 
> El Crapitan from my hard drive but do not seem to get VO running when I try 
> and boot up with my bootable USB Install Yosemite drive. Everything I have 
> read says you have to restart your computer and hold the option screen to get 
> to the screen with your bootable thumb drive on it. For some reason I am 
> thinking this screen might not work with VO as I waited over an hour and 
> could not get VO to turn on. Does anyone happen to know how to arrow without 
> VO running to get your bootable disc to launch? If not, is there anyway to 
> boot in to your drive using disk utility as I am back in disc utility but do 
> not see anywhere I can do this and selecting reinstall OS and hitting 
> continue just gives me a you are not connected to the internet error message. 
> Thanks for any help.
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
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Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Hey Mark,

Thanks I think you nailed my situation exactly. Going to try what you suggested 
and if that fails then will get a sighted buddy over here. Thanks again for the 
explanation. Appreciate it. Best,
> On Oct 16, 2015, at 8:05 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Brian,
> 
> I'm not Chris but, as I understand your dilemma, the problem is that you have 
> not yet successfully booted into your USB drive.
> 
> Normally, I recommend that a blind a low vision person, working alone, use 
> the Startup disk option located in the System Preferences, to subsequently 
> boot into the USB drive upon restart.  However, it sounds as though you have 
> already erased the internal drive so this is not an option.   
> 
> Here's how it works:
> 
> You must successfully boot into your USB drive in order to enable VoiceOver 
> via the key combo Command+F5.  
> 
> Do the following:
> 
> While the Mac is powered off, hold down the Option key and keep it held down 
> until you hear the startup chime; after which, you may release the Option 
> key.  At this point, you will see a list of all of your bootable devices, 
> connected to the Mac.  If, as you say, your internal drive has been erased 
> and is therefore not bootable, it will not be listed.  Understand that one 
> cannot use VoiceOver in order to select the drive, using this method. You may 
> use the arrow keys to highlight any of the items in the list but there is no 
> VoiceOver feedback.  Once you select the drive you want, press the Enter key. 
>  It may take as long as 5 minutes for the computer to boot into the USB key.  
> Once it does, you can then enable VoiceOver via the key combo Command+F5.
> 
> Mark 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Fischler
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 4:52 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck
> 
> Chris,
> 
> 
> Just wanted to make sure I have this correct. Start the computer while 
> holding down the option key, then hit tab and enter? Is there only one thing 
> I am tabbing to? When do I try and turn VO back on? Thanks,
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Don't arrow.  That's your problem.  You wanna hit the tab key when in the 
>> boot menu.  Tab and shift tab.  Don't arrow.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:29 PM
>> Subject: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck
>> 
>> 
>> Hey all,
>> 
>> So I started my roll back to Yosemite and am stuck. I was able to erase the 
>> El Crapitan from my hard drive but do not seem to get VO running when I try 
>> and boot up with my bootable USB Install Yosemite drive. Everything I have 
>> read says you have to restart your computer and hold the option screen to 
>> get to the screen with your bootable thumb drive on it. For some reason I am 
>> thinking this screen might not work with VO as I waited over an hour and 
>> could not get VO to turn on. Does anyone happen to know how to arrow without 
>> VO running to get your bootable disc to launch? If not, is there anyway to 
>> boot in to your drive using disk utility as I am back in disc utility but do 
>> not see anywhere I can do this and selecting reinstall OS and hitting 
>> continue just gives me a you are not connected to the internet error 
>> message. Thanks for any help.
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>> -- 
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> 
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Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?

2015-10-16 Thread Ryan Mann

NVDA is free and it keeps improving.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 16, 2015, at 12:18 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> The only problem is that Jaws costs a lot of money and Voice Over comes with 
> the Mac and has no ILM life. I have thought about getting a small windows lap 
> top but haven't done anything about it as yet. I do wish there was better 
> Braille sufport on the Mac. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 4:46 p.m., Devin Prater  wrote:
>> 
>> They should really hire a blind software engineer. I think that's about the 
>> only way we'll get any progress.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 2:20 AM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hey guy,
>>> 
>>> Thanks so much for pointing out this is why it is great to wait to the next 
>>> version of an operating system comes out. Wow, what a original novice 
>>> concept that has never ever been pointed out on this list. 
>>> 
>>> Ok, now that that is out of the way. I want to thank everyone who has 
>>> posted about their issues with safari in El Capitan the IOS 8 for VO users 
>>> on the mac. Holy cow, Apple what a crap operating system. Thankfully I will 
>>> be rolling back this weekend. Just need to do some more backups. Seriously, 
>>> I love Apple, but you got to call them out when they shit the bed and El 
>>> Capitan is just that. Apple claimed IOS 9 and El Capitan were going to be 
>>> focused on Quality Control instead of fancy new things. Well, how can Apple 
>>> expect any VO user that they seriously test VO when safari on a lot of 
>>> websites is absolutely unusable. It is great that VO seems to be much 
>>> snappier but with it constantly crashing and turning on and off it is 
>>> unusable, and I am finding the same issue in chrome on the same websites so 
>>> it is definitely VO.
>>> 
>>> Another issue which I have not seen posted is how VO just does not read 
>>> things. For example go through your contact list in contacts and you will 
>>> constantly have to go back up to a previous contact and then back down 
>>> again to get VO to read it. These two issues alone are so severe that Apple 
>>> should fire anyone doing Quality Control for VO or they just do not care 
>>> about the quality of it. Very disappointed in Apple again.
 On Oct 15, 2015, at 10:30 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
 
 This is why it’s always best to wait until at least the first, and 
 sometimes the second major update before installing a new version of the 
 operating system, let the major bugs get worked out first.
> On Oct 15, 2015, at 5:42 PM, Sadam Ahmed  wrote:
> 
> This is why I have Rolled back  to Yosemite. 
> 
> These are some of the worst bugs I've seen since I started using the Mac 
> back in 2010. 
> 
> Won't be updating until a  update comes out to address these problems. 
> 
> Yours truly, 
> 
> Sadam Ahmed 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 16 Oct 2015, at 9:16 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Is that with the official build, or is that with the private beta?  I 
>> confess I really haven't tried doing anything with Safari over there 
>> since I finally got successfully updated.  How are people getting around 
>> this being that surfing the web is so heavily done now adays with 
>> computers?  Are folks just using Crome instead?  What about Webkit?  Is 
>> it any better?
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Daniel Miller" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 6:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: Safari on the Mac worse than ever?
>> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Safari on 10.11 is pretty pathetic right now. It’s the worst experience 
>> I’ve ever had while using OS X.
>> 
>>> On Oct 15, 2015, at 4:41 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello.
>>> 
>>> Just been using Safari as I went to the online RNIB library catalogue. 
>>> Safari is terrible on that website and I wonder if Safari is broken?  
>>> Once I sign in and browse for books either in braille or for Talking 
>>> books, Safari won’t read the search results as it keeps saying 
>>> dialogue.  Also I am going to try out Overdrive again in due course so 
>>> I hope it’s been fixed with IOS9 as I had problems with it when I tried 
>>> it on the I phone 6 Plus.  Now I am using the 6 Plus S wonder if it 
>>> will improve.
>>> 
>>> I wish I could get rid of the favourites bar in safari and get it back 
>>> to how it was when I was using it in Yosemite.  I apologise if I have 
>>> misspelt the name wrong again but I try to spell it wright.
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
>>> 
>>> -- 
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RE: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Hello Brian,

This is Mark.

One can absolutely perform a clean install, without sighted assistance, 
provided that they use the Startup Disk option located in the System 
Preferences panel.  

The general order of things are as follows:

1.
While your Mac is booted up to it's normal finder Desktop, insert a USB key 
containing the install of your preferred OS, into the Mac..

2.
>From the Apple menu, select System Preferences.

3.
Select Startup Disk.

4.
Now, select the USB key in which you want to boot when the computer restarts.

5.
Restart the Mac and it will boot directly into the USB key.  

6.
Now, enable VoiceOver and you're good to go.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Brian Fischler
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 5:01 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Chris then how do people say you can do this without sighted help? As I have 
read people have been doing clean installs via a bootable usb drive with VO. 
Thanks,
> On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:57 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> I cannot tell you if there is only one thing you're tabbing to, or how many 
> times to do so.  That depends on how many startup disk volumes are configured 
> on your system.
> 
> You do have the general idea correct though.
> 
> As for when to turn on Voiceover, once the system boots, then turn it on. You 
> may have to try several times, but eventually, it should come up.
> 
> I hope you're not running into the same nightmare I ran into.
> 
> Finally, I wound up having to reformat and just install from scratch with a 
> bootable USB drive, and not run a disk backup image.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:52 PM
> Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck
> 
> 
> Chris,
> 
> 
> Just wanted to make sure I have this correct. Start the computer while 
> holding down the option key, then hit tab and enter? Is there only one thing 
> I am tabbing to? When do I try and turn VO back on? Thanks,
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Don't arrow.  That's your problem.  You wanna hit the tab key when in the 
>> boot menu.  Tab and shift tab.  Don't arrow.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:29 PM
>> Subject: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck
>> 
>> 
>> Hey all,
>> 
>> So I started my roll back to Yosemite and am stuck. I was able to erase the 
>> El Crapitan from my hard drive but do not seem to get VO running when I try 
>> and boot up with my bootable USB Install Yosemite drive. Everything I have 
>> read says you have to restart your computer and hold the option screen to 
>> get to the screen with your bootable thumb drive on it. For some reason I am 
>> thinking this screen might not work with VO as I waited over an hour and 
>> could not get VO to turn on. Does anyone happen to know how to arrow without 
>> VO running to get your bootable disc to launch? If not, is there anyway to 
>> boot in to your drive using disk utility as I am back in disc utility but do 
>> not see anywhere I can do this and selecting reinstall OS and hitting 
>> continue just gives me a you are not connected to the internet error 
>> message. Thanks for any help.
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> -- 
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>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
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RE: Is there a command to move keyboard focus to the mouse?

Hello Donna,

Use key combo VoiceOver-Key+Shift+F5 to move the keyboard focus to the mouse 
pointer.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 2:26 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Is there a command to move keyboard focus to the mouse?

Hi all,

Still working on my Exchange issue.  Is there a way to force the keyboard focus 
to go to where the mouse is?
TIA,
Donna

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Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Ok so this is strange as I followed what you suggested to do using option 
holding down while starting the computer then trying to turn VO on after 5 
minutes which did not work. So I made a FAcetime call to a sighted person to 
read me my screen and was presented with a password field. I entered my 
computer password and now am getting a spinning wheel. Ever hear of this 
before? Thanks,
> On Oct 16, 2015, at 8:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Brian,
> 
> This is Mark.
> 
> One can absolutely perform a clean install, without sighted assistance, 
> provided that they use the Startup Disk option located in the System 
> Preferences panel.  
> 
> The general order of things are as follows:
> 
> 1.
> While your Mac is booted up to it's normal finder Desktop, insert a USB key 
> containing the install of your preferred OS, into the Mac..
> 
> 2.
> From the Apple menu, select System Preferences.
> 
> 3.
> Select Startup Disk.
> 
> 4.
> Now, select the USB key in which you want to boot when the computer restarts.
> 
> 5.
> Restart the Mac and it will boot directly into the USB key.  
> 
> 6.
> Now, enable VoiceOver and you're good to go.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Fischler
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 5:01 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck
> 
> Chris then how do people say you can do this without sighted help? As I have 
> read people have been doing clean installs via a bootable usb drive with VO. 
> Thanks,
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:57 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I cannot tell you if there is only one thing you're tabbing to, or how many 
>> times to do so.  That depends on how many startup disk volumes are 
>> configured on your system.
>> 
>> You do have the general idea correct though.
>> 
>> As for when to turn on Voiceover, once the system boots, then turn it on. 
>> You may have to try several times, but eventually, it should come up.
>> 
>> I hope you're not running into the same nightmare I ran into.
>> 
>> Finally, I wound up having to reformat and just install from scratch with a 
>> bootable USB drive, and not run a disk backup image.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck
>> 
>> 
>> Chris,
>> 
>> 
>> Just wanted to make sure I have this correct. Start the computer while 
>> holding down the option key, then hit tab and enter? Is there only one thing 
>> I am tabbing to? When do I try and turn VO back on? Thanks,
>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Don't arrow.  That's your problem.  You wanna hit the tab key when in the 
>>> boot menu.  Tab and shift tab.  Don't arrow.
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> - Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:29 PM
>>> Subject: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hey all,
>>> 
>>> So I started my roll back to Yosemite and am stuck. I was able to erase the 
>>> El Crapitan from my hard drive but do not seem to get VO running when I try 
>>> and boot up with my bootable USB Install Yosemite drive. Everything I have 
>>> read says you have to restart your computer and hold the option screen to 
>>> get to the screen with your bootable thumb drive on it. For some reason I 
>>> am thinking this screen might not work with VO as I waited over an hour and 
>>> could not get VO to turn on. Does anyone happen to know how to arrow 
>>> without VO running to get your bootable disc to launch? If not, is there 
>>> anyway to boot in to your drive using disk utility as I am back in disc 
>>> utility but do not see anywhere I can do this and selecting reinstall OS 
>>> and hitting continue just gives me a you are not connected to the internet 
>>> error message. Thanks for any help.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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>> 
>> -- 
>>

Re: How do I Save An Attachment In Messages App

glad to know that it worked. From the observations i’ve made this seems to work 
with any attachment in messages. Likewise you can copy files and paste them 
into the message windows as well to send.
best.

Michael Babcock
Your Blind Digital Marketing Partner.
@payown on periscope and twitter.
http://yourownpay .com/

> On Oct 16, 2015, at 5:03 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hi Michael. Thanks. That worked.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 6:59 PM, Michael Babcock > > wrote:
>> 
>> use command+c on the image in messages, then command+v in the folder in 
>> finder you want to save the image in.
>> hope this helps.
>> 
>> Michael Babcock
>> Your Blind Digital Marketing Partner.
>> @payown on periscope and twitter.
>> http://yourownpay .com/
>> 
>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 4:52 PM, Alex Hall >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sorry, I'm really not sure then. There's a photo browser in the Details 
>>> view, but I can't figure out a way to save from there either. Has anyone 
>>> dealt with this more extensively than I have? I'm kind of stuck.
 On Oct 16, 2015, at 19:21, Shawn Krasniuk >>> > wrote:
 
 Hey Alex. That didn't work. When I did VO+Shift+M on the image, the only 
 option I got was remove chat transcript.
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook
 Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
 Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
 Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
 Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
 
> On Oct 16, 2015, at 5:36 PM, Alex Hall  > wrote:
> 
> I believe you can find the attachment in the HTML area of Messages, then 
> hit vo-shift-m and choose the option you want from there. If that fails, 
> let me know; I rarely deal with images in Messages, and never want to 
> save them, so I'm having a guess here.
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 17:52, Shawn Krasniuk > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all. Someone texted me a picture and I'd like to be able to save it 
>> with the Messages app on the Mac. Is this possible or will I have to 
>> transfer it from my iPhone to my Mac? Thanks.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
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>> .
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>> .
> 
> 
> --
> Have a great day,
> Alex Hall
> mehg...@icloud.com 
> 
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 -- 
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 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
 .
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 .
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 .
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
 .
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Have a great day,
>>> Alex Hall
>>> mehg...@icloud.com

Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Because.  When you boot to the USB drive which contains the installer, you 
then hit command+F5, and Voiceover will begin speaking.

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Fischler" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Chris then how do people say you can do this without sighted help? As I have 
read people have been doing clean installs via a bootable usb drive with VO. 
Thanks,
On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:57 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:

I cannot tell you if there is only one thing you're tabbing to, or how 
many times to do so.  That depends on how many startup disk volumes are 
configured on your system.

You do have the general idea correct though.

As for when to turn on Voiceover, once the system boots, then turn it on. 
You may have to try several times, but eventually, it should come up.

I hope you're not running into the same nightmare I ran into.

Finally, I wound up having to reformat and just install from scratch with 
a bootable USB drive, and not run a disk backup image.

Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Chris,

Just wanted to make sure I have this correct. Start the computer while 
holding down the option key, then hit tab and enter? Is there only one 
thing I am tabbing to? When do I try and turn VO back on? Thanks,
On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:

Don't arrow.  That's your problem.  You wanna hit the tab key when in the 
boot menu.  Tab and shift tab.  Don't arrow.

Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:29 PM
Subject: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Hey all,

So I started my roll back to Yosemite and am stuck. I was able to erase 
the El Crapitan from my hard drive but do not seem to get VO running when 
I try and boot up with my bootable USB Install Yosemite drive. Everything 
I have read says you have to restart your computer and hold the option 
screen to get to the screen with your bootable thumb drive on it. For 
some reason I am thinking this screen might not work with VO as I waited 
over an hour and could not get VO to turn on. Does anyone happen to know 
how to arrow without VO running to get your bootable disc to launch? If 
not, is there anyway to boot in to your drive using disk utility as I am 
back in disc utility but do not see anywhere I can do this and selecting 
reinstall OS and hitting continue just gives me a you are not connected 
to the internet error message. Thanks for any help.

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Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Wow Mark, you're lucky.  I normally have to wait about 15 minutes minimum! 
before my USB drive boots.  Or, are you talking about an installer volume, 
not a full fledged OS image.  Also, have you really had success hitting the 
option key and releasing right after the chime?  I'm not in the least bit 
doubting you.  It's just that I've normally had to keep it held for about 
another 10 seconds after the chime finnished.  That might be slightly 
overkill, but I know it didn't happen instantly if I released when the chime 
went away.  Would like a little clarification on this, if you don't mind.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "M. Taylor" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 8:05 PM
Subject: RE: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck


Hello Brian,

I'm not Chris but, as I understand your dilemma, the problem is that you 
have not yet successfully booted into your USB drive.


Normally, I recommend that a blind a low vision person, working alone, use 
the Startup disk option located in the System Preferences, to subsequently 
boot into the USB drive upon restart.  However, it sounds as though you have 
already erased the internal drive so this is not an option.


Here's how it works:

You must successfully boot into your USB drive in order to enable VoiceOver 
via the key combo Command+F5.


Do the following:

While the Mac is powered off, hold down the Option key and keep it held down 
until you hear the startup chime; after which, you may release the Option 
key.  At this point, you will see a list of all of your bootable devices, 
connected to the Mac.  If, as you say, your internal drive has been erased 
and is therefore not bootable, it will not be listed.  Understand that one 
cannot use VoiceOver in order to select the drive, using this method. You 
may use the arrow keys to highlight any of the items in the list but there 
is no VoiceOver feedback.  Once you select the drive you want, press the 
Enter key.  It may take as long as 5 minutes for the computer to boot into 
the USB key.  Once it does, you can then enable VoiceOver via the key combo 
Command+F5.


Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Fischler

Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 4:52 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Chris,


Just wanted to make sure I have this correct. Start the computer while 
holding down the option key, then hit tab and enter? Is there only one thing 
I am tabbing to? When do I try and turn VO back on? Thanks,
On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


Don't arrow.  That's your problem.  You wanna hit the tab key when in the 
boot menu.  Tab and shift tab.  Don't arrow.


Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:29 PM
Subject: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck


Hey all,

So I started my roll back to Yosemite and am stuck. I was able to erase 
the El Crapitan from my hard drive but do not seem to get VO running when 
I try and boot up with my bootable USB Install Yosemite drive. Everything 
I have read says you have to restart your computer and hold the option 
screen to get to the screen with your bootable thumb drive on it. For some 
reason I am thinking this screen might not work with VO as I waited over 
an hour and could not get VO to turn on. Does anyone happen to know how to 
arrow without VO running to get your bootable disc to launch? If not, is 
there anyway to boot in to your drive using disk utility as I am back in 
disc utility but do not see anywhere I can do this and selecting reinstall 
OS and hitting continue just gives me a you are not connected to the 
internet error message. Thanks for any help.


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Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Ok so tried this while on the iPhone and FaceTime as I restarted the computer 
and the person told me I had the options of network or reinstall OS Yosemite. 
They were able to see me arrow over to and highlight the install OS Yosemite 
thumb drive then hit enter and they saw something start, so now playing the 
waiting game for ten minutes or so and will try to turn VO back on then and 
hopefully it will work. Ah fun.
> On Oct 16, 2015, at 8:43 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Wow Mark, you're lucky.  I normally have to wait about 15 minutes minimum! 
> before my USB drive boots.  Or, are you talking about an installer volume, 
> not a full fledged OS image.  Also, have you really had success hitting the 
> option key and releasing right after the chime?  I'm not in the least bit 
> doubting you.  It's just that I've normally had to keep it held for about 
> another 10 seconds after the chime finnished.  That might be slightly 
> overkill, but I know it didn't happen instantly if I released when the chime 
> went away.  Would like a little clarification on this, if you don't mind.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "M. Taylor" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 8:05 PM
> Subject: RE: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck
> 
> 
> Hello Brian,
> 
> I'm not Chris but, as I understand your dilemma, the problem is that you have 
> not yet successfully booted into your USB drive.
> 
> Normally, I recommend that a blind a low vision person, working alone, use 
> the Startup disk option located in the System Preferences, to subsequently 
> boot into the USB drive upon restart.  However, it sounds as though you have 
> already erased the internal drive so this is not an option.
> 
> Here's how it works:
> 
> You must successfully boot into your USB drive in order to enable VoiceOver 
> via the key combo Command+F5.
> 
> Do the following:
> 
> While the Mac is powered off, hold down the Option key and keep it held down 
> until you hear the startup chime; after which, you may release the Option 
> key.  At this point, you will see a list of all of your bootable devices, 
> connected to the Mac.  If, as you say, your internal drive has been erased 
> and is therefore not bootable, it will not be listed.  Understand that one 
> cannot use VoiceOver in order to select the drive, using this method. You may 
> use the arrow keys to highlight any of the items in the list but there is no 
> VoiceOver feedback.  Once you select the drive you want, press the Enter key. 
>  It may take as long as 5 minutes for the computer to boot into the USB key.  
> Once it does, you can then enable VoiceOver via the key combo Command+F5.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Fischler
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 4:52 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck
> 
> Chris,
> 
> 
> Just wanted to make sure I have this correct. Start the computer while 
> holding down the option key, then hit tab and enter? Is there only one thing 
> I am tabbing to? When do I try and turn VO back on? Thanks,
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Don't arrow.  That's your problem.  You wanna hit the tab key when in the 
>> boot menu.  Tab and shift tab.  Don't arrow.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:29 PM
>> Subject: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck
>> 
>> 
>> Hey all,
>> 
>> So I started my roll back to Yosemite and am stuck. I was able to erase the 
>> El Crapitan from my hard drive but do not seem to get VO running when I try 
>> and boot up with my bootable USB Install Yosemite drive. Everything I have 
>> read says you have to restart your computer and hold the option screen to 
>> get to the screen with your bootable thumb drive on it. For some reason I am 
>> thinking this screen might not work with VO as I waited over an hour and 
>> could not get VO to turn on. Does anyone happen to know how to arrow without 
>> VO running to get your bootable disc to launch? If not, is there anyway to 
>> boot in to your drive using disk utility as I am back in disc utility but do 
>> not see anywhere I can do this and selecting reinstall OS and hitting 
>> continue just gives me a you are not connected to the internet error 
>> message. Thanks for any help.
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> -- 
>

Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

2015-10-16 Thread E.T.

   Its been a while since I did a clean install. But now that I have 
Windows installed under Bootcamp, I have done many boots holding that 
option key. I wait a bit then arrow once and I am on the Bootcamp drive 
and hot enter.


   If there are other external drives connected, you might want to 
disconnect all. Better chance of landing on that bootable drive.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 10/16/2015 5:32 PM, Brian Fischler wrote:

Ok so this is strange as I followed what you suggested to do using option 
holding down while starting the computer then trying to turn VO on after 5 
minutes which did not work. So I made a FAcetime call to a sighted person to 
read me my screen and was presented with a password field. I entered my 
computer password and now am getting a spinning wheel. Ever hear of this 
before? Thanks,

On Oct 16, 2015, at 8:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:

Hello Brian,

This is Mark.

One can absolutely perform a clean install, without sighted assistance, 
provided that they use the Startup Disk option located in the System 
Preferences panel.

The general order of things are as follows:

1.
While your Mac is booted up to it's normal finder Desktop, insert a USB key 
containing the install of your preferred OS, into the Mac..

2.
 From the Apple menu, select System Preferences.

3.
Select Startup Disk.

4.
Now, select the USB key in which you want to boot when the computer restarts.

5.
Restart the Mac and it will boot directly into the USB key.

6.
Now, enable VoiceOver and you're good to go.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Brian Fischler
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 5:01 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Chris then how do people say you can do this without sighted help? As I have 
read people have been doing clean installs via a bootable usb drive with VO. 
Thanks,

On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:57 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
wrote:

I cannot tell you if there is only one thing you're tabbing to, or how many 
times to do so.  That depends on how many startup disk volumes are configured 
on your system.

You do have the general idea correct though.

As for when to turn on Voiceover, once the system boots, then turn it on. You 
may have to try several times, but eventually, it should come up.

I hope you're not running into the same nightmare I ran into.

Finally, I wound up having to reformat and just install from scratch with a 
bootable USB drive, and not run a disk backup image.

Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck


Chris,


Just wanted to make sure I have this correct. Start the computer while holding 
down the option key, then hit tab and enter? Is there only one thing I am 
tabbing to? When do I try and turn VO back on? Thanks,

On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
wrote:

Don't arrow.  That's your problem.  You wanna hit the tab key when in the boot 
menu.  Tab and shift tab.  Don't arrow.

Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:29 PM
Subject: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck


Hey all,

So I started my roll back to Yosemite and am stuck. I was able to erase the El 
Crapitan from my hard drive but do not seem to get VO running when I try and 
boot up with my bootable USB Install Yosemite drive. Everything I have read 
says you have to restart your computer and hold the option screen to get to the 
screen with your bootable thumb drive on it. For some reason I am thinking this 
screen might not work with VO as I waited over an hour and could not get VO to 
turn on. Does anyone happen to know how to arrow without VO running to get your 
bootable disc to launch? If not, is there anyway to boot in to your drive using 
disk utility as I am back in disc utility but do not see anywhere I can do this 
and selecting reinstall OS and hitting continue just gives me a you are not 
connected to the internet error message. Thanks for any help.

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Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Oh, was your drive incrypted?  That might explain why you got a password 
field.

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Fischler" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Ok so this is strange as I followed what you suggested to do using option 
holding down while starting the computer then trying to turn VO on after 5 
minutes which did not work. So I made a FAcetime call to a sighted person to 
read me my screen and was presented with a password field. I entered my 
computer password and now am getting a spinning wheel. Ever hear of this 
before? Thanks,

On Oct 16, 2015, at 8:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:

Hello Brian,

This is Mark.

One can absolutely perform a clean install, without sighted assistance, 
provided that they use the Startup Disk option located in the System 
Preferences panel.

The general order of things are as follows:

1.
While your Mac is booted up to it's normal finder Desktop, insert a USB 
key containing the install of your preferred OS, into the Mac..

2.
From the Apple menu, select System Preferences.

3.
Select Startup Disk.

4.
Now, select the USB key in which you want to boot when the computer 
restarts.

5.
Restart the Mac and it will boot directly into the USB key.

6.
Now, enable VoiceOver and you're good to go.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Fischler

Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 5:01 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Chris then how do people say you can do this without sighted help? As I 
have read people have been doing clean installs via a bootable usb drive 
with VO. Thanks,
On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:57 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:

I cannot tell you if there is only one thing you're tabbing to, or how 
many times to do so.  That depends on how many startup disk volumes are 
configured on your system.

You do have the general idea correct though.

As for when to turn on Voiceover, once the system boots, then turn it on. 
You may have to try several times, but eventually, it should come up.

I hope you're not running into the same nightmare I ran into.

Finally, I wound up having to reformat and just install from scratch with 
a bootable USB drive, and not run a disk backup image.

Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Chris,

Just wanted to make sure I have this correct. Start the computer while 
holding down the option key, then hit tab and enter? Is there only one 
thing I am tabbing to? When do I try and turn VO back on? Thanks,
On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:

Don't arrow.  That's your problem.  You wanna hit the tab key when in 
the boot menu.  Tab and shift tab.  Don't arrow.

Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:29 PM
Subject: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Hey all,

So I started my roll back to Yosemite and am stuck. I was able to erase 
the El Crapitan from my hard drive but do not seem to get VO running 
when I try and boot up with my bootable USB Install Yosemite drive. 
Everything I have read says you have to restart your computer and hold 
the option screen to get to the screen with your bootable thumb drive on 
it. For some reason I am thinking this screen might not work with VO as 
I waited over an hour and could not get VO to turn on. Does anyone 
happen to know how to arrow without VO running to get your bootable disc 
to launch? If not, is there anyway to boot in to your drive using disk 
utility as I am back in disc utility but do not see anywhere I can do 
this and selecting reinstall OS and hitting continue just gives me a you 
are not connected to the internet error message. Thanks for any help.

--
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T

Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

If nothing else, have them tell you what the screen shows, and let us know.

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Fischler" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Ok so tried this while on the iPhone and FaceTime as I restarted the 
computer and the person told me I had the options of network or reinstall OS 
Yosemite. They were able to see me arrow over to and highlight the install 
OS Yosemite thumb drive then hit enter and they saw something start, so now 
playing the waiting game for ten minutes or so and will try to turn VO back 
on then and hopefully it will work. Ah fun.
On Oct 16, 2015, at 8:43 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:

Wow Mark, you're lucky.  I normally have to wait about 15 minutes minimum! 
before my USB drive boots.  Or, are you talking about an installer volume, 
not a full fledged OS image.  Also, have you really had success hitting 
the option key and releasing right after the chime?  I'm not in the least 
bit doubting you.  It's just that I've normally had to keep it held for 
about another 10 seconds after the chime finnished.  That might be 
slightly overkill, but I know it didn't happen instantly if I released 
when the chime went away.  Would like a little clarification on this, if 
you don't mind.

Chris.

- Original Message - From: "M. Taylor" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 8:05 PM
Subject: RE: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Hello Brian,

I'm not Chris but, as I understand your dilemma, the problem is that you 
have not yet successfully booted into your USB drive.

Normally, I recommend that a blind a low vision person, working alone, use 
the Startup disk option located in the System Preferences, to subsequently 
boot into the USB drive upon restart.  However, it sounds as though you 
have already erased the internal drive so this is not an option.

Here's how it works:

You must successfully boot into your USB drive in order to enable 
VoiceOver via the key combo Command+F5.

Do the following:

While the Mac is powered off, hold down the Option key and keep it held 
down until you hear the startup chime; after which, you may release the 
Option key.  At this point, you will see a list of all of your bootable 
devices, connected to the Mac.  If, as you say, your internal drive has 
been erased and is therefore not bootable, it will not be listed. 
Understand that one cannot use VoiceOver in order to select the drive, 
using this method. You may use the arrow keys to highlight any of the 
items in the list but there is no VoiceOver feedback.  Once you select the 
drive you want, press the Enter key.  It may take as long as 5 minutes for 
the computer to boot into the USB key.  Once it does, you can then enable 
VoiceOver via the key combo Command+F5.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Fischler

Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 4:52 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Chris,

Just wanted to make sure I have this correct. Start the computer while 
holding down the option key, then hit tab and enter? Is there only one 
thing I am tabbing to? When do I try and turn VO back on? Thanks,
On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:

Don't arrow.  That's your problem.  You wanna hit the tab key when in the 
boot menu.  Tab and shift tab.  Don't arrow.

Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:29 PM
Subject: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Hey all,

So I started my roll back to Yosemite and am stuck. I was able to erase 
the El Crapitan from my hard drive but do not seem to get VO running when 
I try and boot up with my bootable USB Install Yosemite drive. Everything 
I have read says you have to restart your computer and hold the option 
screen to get to the screen with your bootable thumb drive on it. For 
some reason I am thinking this screen might not work with VO as I waited 
over an hour and could not get VO to turn on. Does anyone happen to know 
how to arrow without VO running to get your bootable disc to launch? If 
not, is there anyway to boot in to your drive using disk utility as I am 
back in disc utility but do not see anywhere I can do this and selecting 
reinstall OS and hitting continue just gives me a you are not connected 
to the internet error message. Thanks for any help.

--
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Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Hey Chris, No my drive was not encrypted so not sure what that was, but after 
turning off the computer and booting it up while on FaceTime they were able to 
help me get to the boot drive and I waited ten minutes and thankfully VoiceOVer 
came back on and now the installer is running just fine. Got to love modern 
technology. So it is funny while I am upset at Apple for El Crapitan I am 
loving Apple for FaceTime and being able to connect with a sighted person over 
it instead of having to wait for a sighted person to come over. Now the fun of 
waiting through the install and loading everything back on to the computer. 
Thanks all for the advice.
> On Oct 16, 2015, at 9:06 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> If nothing else, have them tell you what the screen shows, and let us know.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 8:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck
> 
> 
> Ok so tried this while on the iPhone and FaceTime as I restarted the computer 
> and the person told me I had the options of network or reinstall OS Yosemite. 
> They were able to see me arrow over to and highlight the install OS Yosemite 
> thumb drive then hit enter and they saw something start, so now playing the 
> waiting game for ten minutes or so and will try to turn VO back on then and 
> hopefully it will work. Ah fun.
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 8:43 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Wow Mark, you're lucky.  I normally have to wait about 15 minutes minimum! 
>> before my USB drive boots.  Or, are you talking about an installer volume, 
>> not a full fledged OS image.  Also, have you really had success hitting the 
>> option key and releasing right after the chime?  I'm not in the least bit 
>> doubting you.  It's just that I've normally had to keep it held for about 
>> another 10 seconds after the chime finnished.  That might be slightly 
>> overkill, but I know it didn't happen instantly if I released when the chime 
>> went away.  Would like a little clarification on this, if you don't mind.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "M. Taylor" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 8:05 PM
>> Subject: RE: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck
>> 
>> 
>> Hello Brian,
>> 
>> I'm not Chris but, as I understand your dilemma, the problem is that you 
>> have not yet successfully booted into your USB drive.
>> 
>> Normally, I recommend that a blind a low vision person, working alone, use 
>> the Startup disk option located in the System Preferences, to subsequently 
>> boot into the USB drive upon restart.  However, it sounds as though you have 
>> already erased the internal drive so this is not an option.
>> 
>> Here's how it works:
>> 
>> You must successfully boot into your USB drive in order to enable VoiceOver 
>> via the key combo Command+F5.
>> 
>> Do the following:
>> 
>> While the Mac is powered off, hold down the Option key and keep it held down 
>> until you hear the startup chime; after which, you may release the Option 
>> key.  At this point, you will see a list of all of your bootable devices, 
>> connected to the Mac.  If, as you say, your internal drive has been erased 
>> and is therefore not bootable, it will not be listed. Understand that one 
>> cannot use VoiceOver in order to select the drive, using this method. You 
>> may use the arrow keys to highlight any of the items in the list but there 
>> is no VoiceOver feedback.  Once you select the drive you want, press the 
>> Enter key.  It may take as long as 5 minutes for the computer to boot into 
>> the USB key.  Once it does, you can then enable VoiceOver via the key combo 
>> Command+F5.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Fischler
>> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 4:52 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck
>> 
>> Chris,
>> 
>> 
>> Just wanted to make sure I have this correct. Start the computer while 
>> holding down the option key, then hit tab and enter? Is there only one thing 
>> I am tabbing to? When do I try and turn VO back on? Thanks,
>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Don't arrow.  That's your problem.  You wanna hit the tab key when in the 
>>> boot menu.  Tab and shift tab.  Don't arrow.
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> - Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:29 PM
>>> Subject: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hey all,
>>> 
>>> So I started my roll back to Yosemite and am stuck. I was able to erase the 
>>> El Crapitan from my hard drive but do not seem to get VO running when I try 
>>> and boot up with my bootable USB Install Yosemite drive. Everything I have 
>>> read says you have to restart

Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck


Brian,

You're more than welcome.  Glad that we all could help.

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Fischler" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck


Hey Chris, No my drive was not encrypted so not sure what that was, but 
after turning off the computer and booting it up while on FaceTime they were 
able to help me get to the boot drive and I waited ten minutes and 
thankfully VoiceOVer came back on and now the installer is running just 
fine. Got to love modern technology. So it is funny while I am upset at 
Apple for El Crapitan I am loving Apple for FaceTime and being able to 
connect with a sighted person over it instead of having to wait for a 
sighted person to come over. Now the fun of waiting through the install and 
loading everything back on to the computer. Thanks all for the advice.
On Oct 16, 2015, at 9:06 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


If nothing else, have them tell you what the screen shows, and let us 
know.


Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck


Ok so tried this while on the iPhone and FaceTime as I restarted the 
computer and the person told me I had the options of network or reinstall 
OS Yosemite. They were able to see me arrow over to and highlight the 
install OS Yosemite thumb drive then hit enter and they saw something 
start, so now playing the waiting game for ten minutes or so and will try 
to turn VO back on then and hopefully it will work. Ah fun.
On Oct 16, 2015, at 8:43 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


Wow Mark, you're lucky.  I normally have to wait about 15 minutes 
minimum! before my USB drive boots.  Or, are you talking about an 
installer volume, not a full fledged OS image.  Also, have you really had 
success hitting the option key and releasing right after the chime?  I'm 
not in the least bit doubting you.  It's just that I've normally had to 
keep it held for about another 10 seconds after the chime finnished. 
That might be slightly overkill, but I know it didn't happen instantly if 
I released when the chime went away.  Would like a little clarification 
on this, if you don't mind.


Chris.

- Original Message - From: "M. Taylor" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 8:05 PM
Subject: RE: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck


Hello Brian,

I'm not Chris but, as I understand your dilemma, the problem is that you 
have not yet successfully booted into your USB drive.


Normally, I recommend that a blind a low vision person, working alone, 
use the Startup disk option located in the System Preferences, to 
subsequently boot into the USB drive upon restart.  However, it sounds as 
though you have already erased the internal drive so this is not an 
option.


Here's how it works:

You must successfully boot into your USB drive in order to enable 
VoiceOver via the key combo Command+F5.


Do the following:

While the Mac is powered off, hold down the Option key and keep it held 
down until you hear the startup chime; after which, you may release the 
Option key.  At this point, you will see a list of all of your bootable 
devices, connected to the Mac.  If, as you say, your internal drive has 
been erased and is therefore not bootable, it will not be listed. 
Understand that one cannot use VoiceOver in order to select the drive, 
using this method. You may use the arrow keys to highlight any of the 
items in the list but there is no VoiceOver feedback.  Once you select 
the drive you want, press the Enter key.  It may take as long as 5 
minutes for the computer to boot into the USB key.  Once it does, you can 
then enable VoiceOver via the key combo Command+F5.


Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Fischler

Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 4:52 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Chris,


Just wanted to make sure I have this correct. Start the computer while 
holding down the option key, then hit tab and enter? Is there only one 
thing I am tabbing to? When do I try and turn VO back on? Thanks,
On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


Don't arrow.  That's your problem.  You wanna hit the tab key when in 
the boot menu.  Tab and shift tab.  Don't arrow.


Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 


To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:29 PM
Subject: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck


Hey all,

So I started my roll back to Yosemite and am stuck. I was able to erase 
the El Crapitan from my hard drive but do not seem to get VO running 
when I try and boot up with my bootable USB Install Yosemite drive. 
Everything I have read says you have to restart your computer and hold 
the option screen to get to the s

RE: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Hello Chris,  

The 5 minutes I was referring to reflects booting into an installer image on a 
standard USB 2.0 thumb drive.  However, using a Thunderbolt drive, I can boot 
into a full version of El Capitan in less than 1 minute.

Yes, I release the Option key, immediately (or almost immediately) following 
the chime.  Keep in mind that I am using a new MacBook Pro with 16 gigs of ram 
and I can see when the Apple symbol appears which, again, is almost 
immediately..  

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 5:44 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Wow Mark, you're lucky.  I normally have to wait about 15 minutes minimum! 
before my USB drive boots.  Or, are you talking about an installer volume, not 
a full fledged OS image.  Also, have you really had success hitting the option 
key and releasing right after the chime?  I'm not in the least bit doubting 
you.  It's just that I've normally had to keep it held for about another 10 
seconds after the chime finnished.  That might be slightly overkill, but I know 
it didn't happen instantly if I released when the chime went away.  Would like 
a little clarification on this, if you don't mind.

Chris.

- Original Message -
From: "M. Taylor" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 8:05 PM
Subject: RE: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Hello Brian,

I'm not Chris but, as I understand your dilemma, the problem is that you 
have not yet successfully booted into your USB drive.

Normally, I recommend that a blind a low vision person, working alone, use 
the Startup disk option located in the System Preferences, to subsequently 
boot into the USB drive upon restart.  However, it sounds as though you have 
already erased the internal drive so this is not an option.

Here's how it works:

You must successfully boot into your USB drive in order to enable VoiceOver 
via the key combo Command+F5.

Do the following:

While the Mac is powered off, hold down the Option key and keep it held down 
until you hear the startup chime; after which, you may release the Option 
key.  At this point, you will see a list of all of your bootable devices, 
connected to the Mac.  If, as you say, your internal drive has been erased 
and is therefore not bootable, it will not be listed.  Understand that one 
cannot use VoiceOver in order to select the drive, using this method. You 
may use the arrow keys to highlight any of the items in the list but there 
is no VoiceOver feedback.  Once you select the drive you want, press the 
Enter key.  It may take as long as 5 minutes for the computer to boot into 
the USB key.  Once it does, you can then enable VoiceOver via the key combo 
Command+F5.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Fischler
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 4:52 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck

Chris,

Just wanted to make sure I have this correct. Start the computer while 
holding down the option key, then hit tab and enter? Is there only one thing 
I am tabbing to? When do I try and turn VO back on? Thanks,
> On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>  wrote:
>
> Don't arrow.  That's your problem.  You wanna hit the tab key when in the 
> boot menu.  Tab and shift tab.  Don't arrow.
>
> Chris.
>
> - Original Message - From: "Brian Fischler" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:29 PM
> Subject: Help with rolling back to Yosemite as I am stuck
>
>
> Hey all,
>
> So I started my roll back to Yosemite and am stuck. I was able to erase 
> the El Crapitan from my hard drive but do not seem to get VO running when 
> I try and boot up with my bootable USB Install Yosemite drive. Everything 
> I have read says you have to restart your computer and hold the option 
> screen to get to the screen with your bootable thumb drive on it. For some 
> reason I am thinking this screen might not work with VO as I waited over 
> an hour and could not get VO to turn on. Does anyone happen to know how to 
> arrow without VO running to get your bootable disc to launch? If not, is 
> there anyway to boot in to your drive using disk utility as I am back in 
> disc utility but do not see anywhere I can do this and selecting reinstall 
> OS and hitting continue just gives me a you are not connected to the 
> internet error message. Thanks for any help.
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http:/

A Question about Games for the Mac

Hello Everyone,

Aside from chess, Does anyone know of any VoiceOver or self-voiceing board
games such as monopoly?

Mark


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Re: A Question about Games for the Mac

2015-10-16 Thread michael babcock

check out change reaction:
ChangeReaction — Draconis Entertainment's classic audio puzzle game for the 
blind and visually impaired Primarily intended for blind and visually impaired 
gamers, ChangeReaction is played via the keyboard and your ears. Navigate the 
game board with the arrow keys, dropping coins on the stacks to create chains 
of explosions and rack up higher and higher scores! Match three coins of the 
same denomination vertically or horizontally to trigger a chain reaction that 
blows up all adjacent coins of the same value! This game has no visual 
elements. Use your fingers, ears, and wits to rack up the highest scores 
possible! • Choose from three distinctly different variations of game play. • 
All modes support three difficulty levels. • In ChangeReaction Classic, clear 
the board of all coins before time runs out! • In LooseChange, clearing the 
board just got a whole lot more difficult! Bombs explode on coin stacks and 
scatter their contents across the board for added challenge! • In PayDay, try 
to keep the board from being cleared against all odds, and rack up overtime by 
clearing positions on the board which represent the hours of the work week. • 
Bonus rounds provide a chance to rack up even higher scores! • ChangeReaction 
2.0 has been rewritten from the ground up using the next-generation Draconis 
game engine. • Exciting new sounds and music. • Audio hints to help newcomers 
navigate the game menus with their ears. • In app instructions and keyboard 
reference. 
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/changereaction/id578086731?mt=12
and “SilverDollar”
"Howdy partner, and welcome to the Silver Dollar Saloon! Draconis Entertainment 
revisits the popular saloon of the old west featured in many of its audio games 
for the blind and visually impaired with a new mini title for Mac OS X! 
Primarily intended for the blind and visually impaired, SilverDollar offers 
three mini games that serve as both a great introduction to audio games for new 
players, and addictive fun for experienced ones. SilverDollar has no visual 
element. Use your fingers, ears, and wits to engage in some western fun. So put 
on your 10 gallon hat, partner, and get into a little trouble at the old west's 
premier watering hole for outlaws and gunslingers alike. • Start a brawl with 
the Silver Dollar's resident tough guy. • Prove yourself a gunslinger by 
testing your shooting skills, blasting flying crockery out of the air. • Spend 
a little time at the one-armed bandit. • Features many favorite characters from 
previous Draconis titles, including Old Man Stanley. • Audio hints to help 
newcomers navigate the game menus with their ears. • In app instructions for 
all the mini games. “
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/silverdollar/id591523274?mt=12

> On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:23 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Aside from chess, Does anyone know of any VoiceOver or self-voiceing board
> games such as monopoly?
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
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disabling the voiceover caption window

Is it possible to disable or hide the voiceover caption window? If so, can 
someone provide me with directions on doing this?
best.
Michael Babcock
Your Blind Digital Marketing Partner.
@payown on periscope and twitter.
http://yourownpay .com/

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Re: disabling the voiceover caption window

never mind, just found it.
thanks everyone!
Michael Babcock
Your Blind Digital Marketing Partner.
@payown on periscope and twitter.
http://yourownpay .com/

> On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:33 PM, Michael Babcock  wrote:
> 
> Is it possible to disable or hide the voiceover caption window? If so, can 
> someone provide me with directions on doing this?
> best.
> Michael Babcock
> Your Blind Digital Marketing Partner.
> @payown on periscope and twitter.
> http://yourownpay .com/
> 
> 
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> .
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RE: disabling the voiceover caption window

Hello Michael,

To hide the VoiceOver caption panel:

1.
>From the VoiceOver Utility dialog box, select Visuals in the category table.

2.
Select the VoiceOver Caption Panel tab. 

3.
Uncheck the Show Caption Panel checkbox.

Mark

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Michael Babcock
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:33 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: disabling the voiceover caption window

Is it possible to disable or hide the voiceover caption window? If so, can 
someone provide me with directions on doing this?
best.
Michael Babcock
Your Blind Digital Marketing Partner.
@payown on periscope and twitter.
http://yourownpay.com/

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Re: disabling the voiceover caption window

Yes Mike.

It's in the Voiceover Utility under the visuals tab.  Then disable the 
Voiceover cursor.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Michael Babcock 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 10:33 PM
  Subject: disabling the voiceover caption window


  Is it possible to disable or hide the voiceover caption window? If so, can 
someone provide me with directions on doing this?
  best.

  Michael Babcock
  Your Blind Digital Marketing Partner.
  @payown on periscope and twitter.
  http://yourownpay.com/



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Re: disabling the voiceover caption window

Don't forget also that if these pesky visuals ever get in your way, you can 
turn all of them off very quickly all in one go by hiding visuals with 
VO+Command+F11.


Hope this helps.

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "M. Taylor" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 10:40 PM
Subject: RE: disabling the voiceover caption window



Hello Michael,

To hide the VoiceOver caption panel:

1.
From the VoiceOver Utility dialog box, select Visuals in the category 
table.


2.
Select the VoiceOver Caption Panel tab.

3.
Uncheck the Show Caption Panel checkbox.

Mark

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Babcock

Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 7:33 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: disabling the voiceover caption window

Is it possible to disable or hide the voiceover caption window? If so, can 
someone provide me with directions on doing this?

best.
Michael Babcock
Your Blind Digital Marketing Partner.
@payown on periscope and twitter.
http://yourownpay.com/

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safely removing hardware

2015-10-16 Thread Marie Lyons

How do you do this on a Mac?

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Re: safely removing hardware

2015-10-16 Thread Alex Hall

The easiest way I know is to eject it. It will be on your desktop, unless 
you've changed that setting, or in your computer folder. So, either press 
vo-shift-d or cmd-shift-c, find the drive, and press cmd-e to eject it. Once it 
disappears from the list, it's okay to remove it. I wish the Mac would play a 
sound, but it can't.
> On Oct 16, 2015, at 23:31, Marie Lyons  wrote:
> 
> How do you do this on a Mac?
> 
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Have a great day,
Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com

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Re: safely removing hardware


You wrote:

but it can't.

Yeah it can, if you have Growl in combination with Hardware Growler.  I 
swear by both apps.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Alex Hall" 

To: "'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries" 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: safely removing hardware


The easiest way I know is to eject it. It will be on your desktop, unless 
you've changed that setting, or in your computer folder. So, either press 
vo-shift-d or cmd-shift-c, find the drive, and press cmd-e to eject it. Once 
it disappears from the list, it's okay to remove it. I wish the Mac would 
play a sound, but it can't.

On Oct 16, 2015, at 23:31, Marie Lyons  wrote:

How do you do this on a Mac?

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Have a great day,
Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com

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Re: A Question about Games for the Mac

Hi Mark. Are you by any chance on RS Games? You can play games like Monopoly on 
there. Also, if you have an account for QuentinC's Playroom, you can play it 
using Safari and their web player. Personally, I like the Playroom's version of 
Monopoly better because you can auction properties between players and try to 
get the property lower than what it costs to buy it.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Oct 16, 2015, at 9:23 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Aside from chess, Does anyone know of any VoiceOver or self-voiceing board
> games such as monopoly?
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> -- 
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Clean Install and Rol Back to Yosemite has ruined computer

So much for a clean install fixing things. My computer is now utterly useless 
as VO will read for a few seconds then stop for 3 to 5 minutes then read for a 
few seconds and stop again making the computer a giant freaking paperweight. 
The funniest thing about all this is I am supposed to be at an expo tomorrow 
talking up Apple to blind people, well F that. I could never recommend Apple to 
someone after this experience.Not sure how having nothing on the computer could 
cause so many issues but I would have taken the crappy Crapitan to this as 
Crapitan was useable in places just not safari, this is now a pile of junk. 
Will call Apple accessibility what a joke not sure how I have been the lucky 
one to have the worlds worst experience doing a clean install.

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RE: Clean Install and Rol Back to Yosemite has ruined computer

Hello Brian,

I am so sorry that your experience has been this difficult.

To be honest, I wanted to caution you about how to install Yosemite after 
having first upgraded to El Capitan.  I did not, given that you were already on 
your proverbial way, as it were.  I was hoping that all would be well but since 
it clearly is not, I will now post my recommendation.

When I learned that you were attempting to roll back to Yosemite, I wanted to 
caution you that merely installing Yosemite, even after erasing your disk may 
not be completely successful.  

The only way, in my opinion, to get a truly clean install is to delete the 
entire partition of the internal drive before installing an OS.

While I am not making any excuses for your experience, the truth of the matter 
is that your project is not as simple as it would appear.  Therefore, you 
should not be too hard on yourself or on the operating system.

Things work the way they work and it takes time to understand how it's all put 
together.  The truth of the matter is that Apple provides the only OS, of which 
I am aware, in which we, blind and low vision, can be truly self supporting.  
That does not mean, however, that there is no learning curve.

Having said all of this, were you to have asked before undertaking this project 
I would have recommended that you first learn how to use the Startup disk 
option located in the System Preferences area.  Then I would have suggested 
that you explore the Disk Utilities application in order to familiarize 
yourself with its layout and how VoiceOver interacts with it.  I would have 
advised you to attach a drive or two, to your Mac and practice formatting, 
partitioning and re-partitioning the practice drive.  These skills are 
important, especially when dealing with a primary disk partition on an internal 
drive.

Then, and only then, would I have recommended that you perform a complete fresh 
install after first having deleted the partition of the internal drive.

As it stands, I hope you will not give up on this project as, like it or not, 
it is an excellent learning opportunity.

In short, just try again.  Keep trying until you get it right.

When I was learning how to do these things, sometimes, I had to make the 
attempt as many as three times before I was successful.  Each time through, 
however, I learned something new about both the OS and, more importantly, about 
myself.  

One more thing, just as a side note, what I and many others do is to install a 
program like Super Duper in order to clone the internal drive to an external 
one, before upgrading to a new OS.  Then, should we decide to rollback, as it 
were, we only need to copy the cloned copy from the external drive back to the 
internal one.  The cloned drive is also bootable.  

Hang in there and know that we're all here, ready to assist.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Brian Fischler
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 10:41 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Clean Install and Rol Back to Yosemite has ruined computer

So much for a clean install fixing things. My computer is now utterly useless 
as VO will read for a few seconds then stop for 3 to 5 minutes then read for a 
few seconds and stop again making the computer a giant freaking paperweight. 
The funniest thing about all this is I am supposed to be at an expo tomorrow 
talking up Apple to blind people, well F that. I could never recommend Apple to 
someone after this experience.Not sure how having nothing on the computer could 
cause so many issues but I would have taken the crappy Crapitan to this as 
Crapitan was useable in places just not safari, this is now a pile of junk. 
Will call Apple accessibility what a joke not sure how I have been the lucky 
one to have the worlds worst experience doing a clean install.

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Re: Clean Install and Rol Back to Yosemite has ruined computer