RE: Prowl app for louder mail and other notification sounds [was Re: sounds very disappointing.]

[Simon Fogarty]

Bernard,

 You could always jail break it which allows you then to use your own
sounds.
 That's what a friend of mine has done. He has the start trek communicator
noise when he gets a text.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Esther
Sent: Monday, 15 March 2010 8:36 a.m.
To: viph...@googlegroups.com; macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Prowl app for louder mail and other notification sounds [was Re:
sounds very disappointing.]

Hello Bernard,

You wrote:

> Well I am truly amazed and disappointed.  there is not much point of  
> having a wide variety of ring and other tones on your iphone.
>
> You can select from all your tones for incoming calls.  new text  
> messages they allow you to choose from 5 or 6 built in sounds.
> You won't believe this the new mail, sent mail and calender alert  
> sounds  can only be turned off and on and the default and only  
> sounds they use are just no good for someone hard of  hearing.
> what's more I can't believe apple have not been swamped under  
> complaints re this.
> I think the clock can select between all your loaded tones as can  
> the incoming call ring tone selector.
> apart from that the new sms or text message sound can select from  
> about 6
> the new mail, sent mail and voicemail can only be turned on and off.
> if the set sounds were loud it would be ok but most you would not  
> hear if you were in the city with traffic noise all round and you  
> were not waring headphones.  I think some of these designers never  
> leave their high rise air conditioned office blocks.
> has anyone else noticed how limited the sound settings were.
>
>
I'm cc'ing this to the macvisionaries list, since this may be of  
general interest. If you have Growl running for notifications on your  
PC, you might try the Prowl app ($2.99).  I've only played with this a  
little, because I don't need these functions myself (I have a MobileMe  
account that updates mail notifications with push, and the regular  
volume settings work fine for me on my iPod Touch).  Growl is a global  
notification system for the Mac OS X and Windows.  For the large  
number of applications that support Growl, you can get notifications  
when tasks are done.  For example, if you are downloading a series of  
files, you might want to have the download program send you a  
notification when it's done, which you could assign to a particular  
sound.  Similarly, you can install a GrowlMail plugin (on the Mac)  
that sends a Growl notification whenever a new mail message comes in.   
What might be of interest to you and other iPhone/iPod Touch users is  
that the Prowl app, which is a Growl client for the iPhone, can be set  
to play different and louder sounds than the default settings for mail  
on the iPhone, and also give you "push" notifications when new mail  
arrives on your computer.

Here's a quote from a user comment posted on the iPhone Apps Plus page  
that reviewed Prowl:

"I love this application, have configured it to send me notification  
from Apple Mail using Growl plugin so that i can get push notification  
and LOUDER mail sound (why Apple hasn't added sound customization for  
mail is beyond me)."

Google "Growl" or "Growl for Windows" (in your case) to read about the  
Growl and to get the most recent download.  Growl is free  
(donationware), but does require some setting up.  You may already  
have it on your system, since a number of apps will come with the  
ability to install Growl.

Prowl basically just displays the notifications that are sent from  
Growl.  You need to create a free account, which you can do from the  
"Register" link on the Prowl web page even before you purchase the  
app. When you launch the app the first time, you'll be in the text box  
for your login username and there is a second text box for your  
password.  There are also buttons for "Register" and "Log in", but I  
had to read through the setup on the Prowl web page, anyway, so it was  
easier to set up the account there.   There is a "Settings" button in  
the upper left of the main screen that lets choose the sounds you want  
to use.  By default, sounds will be turned on while Growl is open, and  
Quiet Hours (times when you don't want to allow any Growl  
notifications) are turned off.  Exit the "Settings" menu by double  
tapping the "History" button in the upper left, that will take you to  
the main Prowl screen with a list of your (historical) notifications  
which you can "Edit" (button in the upper right) to delete, etc.

If you are using the Prowl web page to follow the installation and  
setup instructions, and have logged in through the "Register" link,  
there will be an "Add Notification" link to a page where you can try  
typing and sending a notification. That notification should show up on  
your iPhone through the Prowl app when you press the "Add  
Notification" button to send off the text.  T

Re: using facebook with safari

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Ronit,

I do use Facebook with Safari, and unfortunately, I have found no way to update 
status or write on walls from the full site.  It's very annoying, it shows you 
the "Share" button, but not the edit box.  But I have not found any way to 
change this.
Best,
Donna
On Mar 14, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Ronit Ovadia Mazzoni wrote:

> Hello all,
> I'm new to the list and new to using Mac. I just got my mac mini two weeks 
> ago and so far I'm really enjoying it. One thing I'd like to know is if any 
> of you use the regular facebook site with safari and voiceover successfully? 
> I'm having trouble locating edit boxes on the site. For example, updating 
> status messages, writing on people's walls, etc. Of course I can do this by 
> accessing the mobile site but the mobile site is not as powerful as the full 
> site and I'd like to use the full site if possible. If any of you have any 
> tricks or tips, I'd love to hear them.
> Thanks.
> Ronit
> 
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Re: using facebook with safari

[Donna Goodin]

Hi all,

The problem with this is that the lite site, like the mobile site, won't let 
you interface with the apps.  Personally, I really think this is something 
Apple needs to work on.
Best,
Donna
On Mar 14, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Portia Scott wrote:

> Hi Ronit,
> 
> The only other idea I have is to try this site:
> 
> lite.facebook.com
> 
> Hth,
> 
> Portia
> On Mar 14, 2010, at 7:07 PM, Ronit Ovadia Mazzoni wrote:
> 
>> Hello all,
>> I'm new to the list and new to using Mac. I just got my mac mini two weeks 
>> ago and so far I'm really enjoying it. One thing I'd like to know is if any 
>> of you use the regular facebook site with safari and voiceover successfully? 
>> I'm having trouble locating edit boxes on the site. For example, updating 
>> status messages, writing on people's walls, etc. Of course I can do this by 
>> accessing the mobile site but the mobile site is not as powerful as the full 
>> site and I'd like to use the full site if possible. If any of you have any 
>> tricks or tips, I'd love to hear them.
>> Thanks.
>> Ronit
>> 
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>> 
> 
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Re: using facebook with safari

[E.J. Zufelt]

On 2010-03-15, at 8:49 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> The problem with this is that the lite site, like the mobile site, won't let 
> you interface with the apps.  Personally, I really think this is something 
> Apple needs to work on.

* I think that if Facebook followed web standards, including WCAG 2.0, then the 
site would work fine. I don't think that there's anything that Apple needs to 
work on, at least not until Facebook commits to web standards.

Everett


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Re: using facebook with safari

[Donna Goodin]

Your point about Facebook and web standards is well-taken, but 
Facebook--whether they follow web standards or not--is a very widely used site. 
 For me right now, this is just one more thing that my Mac can't do that my PC 
can.  The more things like that that are out there, the less likely it is that 
the Mac can take the place of the PC.
Donna
On Mar 15, 2010, at 8:49 AM, E.J. Zufelt wrote:

> On 2010-03-15, at 8:49 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> The problem with this is that the lite site, like the mobile site, won't let 
>> you interface with the apps.  Personally, I really think this is something 
>> Apple needs to work on.
> 
> * I think that if Facebook followed web standards, including WCAG 2.0, then 
> the site would work fine. I don't think that there's anything that Apple 
> needs to work on, at least not until Facebook commits to web standards.
> 
> Everett
> 
> 
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> 

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Re: using facebook with safari

[E.J. Zufelt]

On 2010-03-15, at 9:05 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

> Your point about Facebook and web standards is well-taken, but 
> Facebook--whether they follow web standards or not--is a very widely used 
> site.  For me right now, this is just one more thing that my Mac can't do 
> that my PC can.  The more things like that that are out there, the less 
> likely it is that the Mac can take the place of the PC.

* Good morning Donna,

I definitely understand your point of view, and I share it in part.  The reason 
that some technologies work better with assistive technologies on Windows than 
on the Mac, not speaking about Facebook in particular, is because assistive 
technology vendors for Windows accommodate application and web development 
techniques that don't follow standards.  The Apple approach, which has annoyed 
me more often than not, is to not accommodate these poorly written applications 
and web-sites.  Arguably the owness for making an application accessible is 
that of the developer, and not of the assistive technology vendor, however, 
this means that some things will be poorly accessible, since generally speaking 
developers don't really tend to understand accessibility, or standards in 
general, very well.

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Re: using facebook with safari

[Israel]

When I was considering joining Facebook a year ago, I read various online 
articles in the hopes of finding out whether FB was screen reader friendly 
and/or to see what others who use screen readers have experienced in terms of 
accessibility.  While I don't recall the specifics, I remember reading letters 
and forum discussions at the American Foundation For The Blind who along with a 
sixteen year old high school student, Michelle was working with the director of 
development, Jeff(I believe) for Facebook in attempting to making the site 
accessible to the blind/visually impaired.  Although FB's frequent changes may 
suggest otherwise, the company seems open to helping bridge the accessibility 
gap so has anyone approached them about complying to web standards and showing 
how this would benefit a segment of the population they apparently seem willing 
to accommodate?

Israel Antonio
www.sexyisra.blogspot.com
www.twitter.com/sexyisra
On Mar 15, 2010, at 7:49 AM, E.J. Zufelt wrote:

> On 2010-03-15, at 8:49 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> The problem with this is that the lite site, like the mobile site, won't let 
>> you interface with the apps.  Personally, I really think this is something 
>> Apple needs to work on.
> 
> * I think that if Facebook followed web standards, including WCAG 2.0, then 
> the site would work fine. I don't think that there's anything that Apple 
> needs to work on, at least not until Facebook commits to web standards.
> 
> Everett
> 
> 
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Re: using facebook with safari

[May McDonald]

It's not just a mac thing. You can't do it with windows either.
On 2010-03-15, at 5:49 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> The problem with this is that the lite site, like the mobile site, won't let 
> you interface with the apps.  Personally, I really think this is something 
> Apple needs to work on.
> Best,
> Donna
> On Mar 14, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Portia Scott wrote:
> 
>> Hi Ronit,
>> 
>> The only other idea I have is to try this site:
>> 
>> lite.facebook.com
>> 
>> Hth,
>> 
>> Portia
>> On Mar 14, 2010, at 7:07 PM, Ronit Ovadia Mazzoni wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> I'm new to the list and new to using Mac. I just got my mac mini two weeks 
>>> ago and so far I'm really enjoying it. One thing I'd like to know is if any 
>>> of you use the regular facebook site with safari and voiceover 
>>> successfully? I'm having trouble locating edit boxes on the site. For 
>>> example, updating status messages, writing on people's walls, etc. Of 
>>> course I can do this by accessing the mobile site but the mobile site is 
>>> not as powerful as the full site and I'd like to use the full site if 
>>> possible. If any of you have any tricks or tips, I'd love to hear them.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Ronit
>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: using facebook with safari

[Israel]

Ronit,

I use the main site.  Yes, I do some times update status via the mobile site as 
well as through my twitter account which I have set to also update FB status.

Other than updating status or writing on walls, I seem to navigate well on the 
main site able to "like" a friend's status or comment on his/her updates.  I 
can seemingly locate all other edit boxes on the newsfeed, my profile, or any 
changes I try to make to my profile, preferences, or settings.  I just figured 
out through trial and error as well as several friends constantly sending me 
IMs how to use the FB chat on the main site.  Because of this list, I seriously 
considered download a third party ap for accessability purposes but if I can do 
it through the FB chat successfully then I will stick with that for now.

As for FB aps, I don't play any games on FB other than once in a while 
accepting/sending gifts in Mofia Wars but for the most part I only use the 
Twitter ap within FB and the "send a drink" and "send a hug" aps and they all 
work just fine as I naviagte the tables, edit boxes, or controls.

Oh and I did recently stumble upon a way where I can get the "what's on your 
mind" edit box to appear and update my status on the main FB site but it is 
kind of hit or miss only working about 40 percent of the time but that's better 
than nothing I guess.
Hope this helps

Israel Antonio
Sexy Isra
www.sexyisra.blogspot.com
www.twitter.com/sexyisra
On Mar 14, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Ronit Ovadia Mazzoni wrote:

> Hello all,
> I'm new to the list and new to using Mac. I just got my mac mini two weeks 
> ago and so far I'm really enjoying it. One thing I'd like to know is if any 
> of you use the regular facebook site with safari and voiceover successfully? 
> I'm having trouble locating edit boxes on the site. For example, updating 
> status messages, writing on people's walls, etc. Of course I can do this by 
> accessing the mobile site but the mobile site is not as powerful as the full 
> site and I'd like to use the full site if possible. If any of you have any 
> tricks or tips, I'd love to hear them.
> Thanks.
> Ronit
> 
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Using voiceover with pages

[Scott Ballard-RidleyScott Ridley]

hey all

I have just purchaced pages 9.0 for my mac and i was wondering if
anyone knows of any teaching resources for using it with voiceover.
Any help would be massively appreciated.

Regards

Scott

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Re: using facebook with safari

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Everett,

I agree 100%.  And, I would add that it isn't fair that Apple should have to 
deal with other developers' sloppy design.  That said I do think it's in 
Apple's best interest to do so.  Personally, I'd love to see more blind users 
switch to the Mac, but it's hard to make that argument in a convincing way if 
you also have to tell them, "Well,  You'll love using your Mac, but it will 
probably be an extension of your PC, rather than replacing it."  Given the cost 
of a Mac, that doesn't make for a very compelling argument to switch. :)

I also think that if Apple wants to present VO as giving out-of-the-box 
accessibility, having a glitch like that on a site as popular as Facebook 
detracts from that claim.
Just my $.02.
Cheers,
Donna
On Mar 15, 2010, at 9:04 AM, E.J. Zufelt wrote:

> On 2010-03-15, at 9:05 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> Your point about Facebook and web standards is well-taken, but 
>> Facebook--whether they follow web standards or not--is a very widely used 
>> site.  For me right now, this is just one more thing that my Mac can't do 
>> that my PC can.  The more things like that that are out there, the less 
>> likely it is that the Mac can take the place of the PC.
> 
> * Good morning Donna,
> 
> I definitely understand your point of view, and I share it in part.  The 
> reason that some technologies work better with assistive technologies on 
> Windows than on the Mac, not speaking about Facebook in particular, is 
> because assistive technology vendors for Windows accommodate application and 
> web development techniques that don't follow standards.  The Apple approach, 
> which has annoyed me more often than not, is to not accommodate these poorly 
> written applications and web-sites.  Arguably the owness for making an 
> application accessible is that of the developer, and not of the assistive 
> technology vendor, however, this means that some things will be poorly 
> accessible, since generally speaking developers don't really tend to 
> understand accessibility, or standards in general, very well.
> 
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> 

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Re: using facebook with safari

[Donna Goodin]

Yes you can.
Donna
On Mar 15, 2010, at 9:50 AM, May McDonald wrote:

> It's not just a mac thing. You can't do it with windows either.
> On 2010-03-15, at 5:49 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> The problem with this is that the lite site, like the mobile site, won't let 
>> you interface with the apps.  Personally, I really think this is something 
>> Apple needs to work on.
>> Best,
>> Donna
>> On Mar 14, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Portia Scott wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Ronit,
>>> 
>>> The only other idea I have is to try this site:
>>> 
>>> lite.facebook.com
>>> 
>>> Hth,
>>> 
>>> Portia
>>> On Mar 14, 2010, at 7:07 PM, Ronit Ovadia Mazzoni wrote:
>>> 
 Hello all,
 I'm new to the list and new to using Mac. I just got my mac mini two weeks 
 ago and so far I'm really enjoying it. One thing I'd like to know is if 
 any of you use the regular facebook site with safari and voiceover 
 successfully? I'm having trouble locating edit boxes on the site. For 
 example, updating status messages, writing on people's walls, etc. Of 
 course I can do this by accessing the mobile site but the mobile site is 
 not as powerful as the full site and I'd like to use the full site if 
 possible. If any of you have any tricks or tips, I'd love to hear them.
 Thanks.
 Ronit
 
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>>> 
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>>> 
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Re: using facebook with safari

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Israel,

What was the way you "stumbled upon to access that box?
Donna
On Mar 15, 2010, at 9:54 AM, Israel wrote:

> Ronit,
> 
> I use the main site.  Yes, I do some times update status via the mobile site 
> as well as through my twitter account which I have set to also update FB 
> status.
> 
> Other than updating status or writing on walls, I seem to navigate well on 
> the main site able to "like" a friend's status or comment on his/her updates. 
>  I can seemingly locate all other edit boxes on the newsfeed, my profile, or 
> any changes I try to make to my profile, preferences, or settings.  I just 
> figured out through trial and error as well as several friends constantly 
> sending me IMs how to use the FB chat on the main site.  Because of this 
> list, I seriously considered download a third party ap for accessability 
> purposes but if I can do it through the FB chat successfully then I will 
> stick with that for now.
> 
> As for FB aps, I don't play any games on FB other than once in a while 
> accepting/sending gifts in Mofia Wars but for the most part I only use the 
> Twitter ap within FB and the "send a drink" and "send a hug" aps and they all 
> work just fine as I naviagte the tables, edit boxes, or controls.
> 
> Oh and I did recently stumble upon a way where I can get the "what's on your 
> mind" edit box to appear and update my status on the main FB site but it is 
> kind of hit or miss only working about 40 percent of the time but that's 
> better than nothing I guess.
> Hope this helps
> 
> Israel Antonio
> Sexy Isra
> www.sexyisra.blogspot.com
> www.twitter.com/sexyisra
> On Mar 14, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Ronit Ovadia Mazzoni wrote:
> 
>> Hello all,
>> I'm new to the list and new to using Mac. I just got my mac mini two weeks 
>> ago and so far I'm really enjoying it. One thing I'd like to know is if any 
>> of you use the regular facebook site with safari and voiceover successfully? 
>> I'm having trouble locating edit boxes on the site. For example, updating 
>> status messages, writing on people's walls, etc. Of course I can do this by 
>> accessing the mobile site but the mobile site is not as powerful as the full 
>> site and I'd like to use the full site if possible. If any of you have any 
>> tricks or tips, I'd love to hear them.
>> Thanks.
>> Ronit
>> 
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Re: using facebook with safari

[Donna Goodin]

Good point, Israel.  I'll put this on my to-do list.
Cheers,
Donna
On Mar 15, 2010, at 9:05 AM, Israel wrote:

> When I was considering joining Facebook a year ago, I read various online 
> articles in the hopes of finding out whether FB was screen reader friendly 
> and/or to see what others who use screen readers have experienced in terms of 
> accessibility.  While I don't recall the specifics, I remember reading 
> letters and forum discussions at the American Foundation For The Blind who 
> along with a sixteen year old high school student, Michelle was working with 
> the director of development, Jeff(I believe) for Facebook in attempting to 
> making the site accessible to the blind/visually impaired.  Although FB's 
> frequent changes may suggest otherwise, the company seems open to helping 
> bridge the accessibility gap so has anyone approached them about complying to 
> web standards and showing how this would benefit a segment of the population 
> they apparently seem willing to accommodate?
> 
> Israel Antonio
> www.sexyisra.blogspot.com
> www.twitter.com/sexyisra
> On Mar 15, 2010, at 7:49 AM, E.J. Zufelt wrote:
> 
>> On 2010-03-15, at 8:49 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> The problem with this is that the lite site, like the mobile site, won't 
>>> let you interface with the apps.  Personally, I really think this is 
>>> something Apple needs to work on.
>> 
>> * I think that if Facebook followed web standards, including WCAG 2.0, then 
>> the site would work fine. I don't think that there's anything that Apple 
>> needs to work on, at least not until Facebook commits to web standards.
>> 
>> Everett
>> 
>> 
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Re: safari busy, busy, busy

[Carolyn]

Kim:
I did write to accessibility at apple to see if they have any thoughts on the 
repetition issue.  I'll post their response if I get one.

Carolyn
  - Original Message - 
  From: Kimberly thurman 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 9:12 PM
  Subject: Re: safari busy, busy, busy


  I must say that I had trouble with the busy thing yesterday when I set up 
Genius in ITunes.  I suppose this must be a very memory-intensive process, as 
it bogged my computer down for several minutes and I got the busy message 
intermittently during this whole time.  
  On Mar 14, 2010, at 6:36 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:

  > it does except for
  > 1. when safary decides to hickup and
  > 
  > 2, you try and mark 4000 messages as read at once. don't do that. lol.
  > On Mar 14, 2010, at 3:02 PM, Rich Ring wrote:
  > 
  >> But I think ZI'd have to have a Mac Book Pro in order to have 8 gigs of 
ram.
  >> Half the reason I wanted to get into the Mac world was that OSX is 
supposed 
  >> to use memory  more efficiently.
  >> - Original Message - 
  >> From: "Bryan Smart" 
  >> To: 
  >> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 2:17 PM
  >> Subject: RE: safari busy, busy, busy
  >> 
  >> 
  >> That's true as long as you're only running desktop apps.
  >> 
  >> If you're using virtual machines, for example, 8GB will be better. A 
Windows 
  >> 7 VM needs 3GB of memory to run with maximum performance, for example, 
and, 
  >> with 4GB, that wouldn't leave you much for OSX. You can always run your 
  >> virtual machines with less memory, and start fewer apps in them, but 
you'll 
  >> hurt performance.
  >> 
  >> 8GB is only about $350 right now in the US. It isn't that serious of a 
  >> purchase if you do serious computing.
  >> 
  >> Bryan
  >> 
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Howell
  >> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:57 PM
  >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  >> Subject: Re: safari busy, busy, busy
  >> 
  >> Four gigs is more than sufficient and any additional benefits from 
  >> installing more ram will not justify the expense of the ram.
  >> I have four gigs and I run a lot of stuff at once with no noticeable hit 
on 
  >> performance.
  >> 
  >> On Mar 13, 2010, at 6:45 PM, Kimberly thurman wrote:
  >> 
  >>> Happens to me a lot and I'm using a 13 inch Macbook Pro.  It only has
2 
  >>> gigs of ram and I'm thinking that is causing some of my problems.  I get 
  >>> the busy stuff when I have multiple aps open.
  >>> 
  >>> This leads me to a question of my own.  I see  that it is possible to 
  >>> upgrade ram.  My husband could do this for me, but how much ram is 
enough? 
  >>> I read that I could put up to 8 gigs of ram in this thing.  Is that over 
  >>> kill?  Would 4 gigs be enough?
  >>> 
  >>> Thanks in advance.
  >>> 
  >>> Kim
  >>> On Mar 13, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:
  >>> 
   I bet you have a Mac Mini without a monitor.
   
   Bryan
   
   -Original Message-
   From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
   [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn
   Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 3:31 PM
   To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
   Subject: safari busy, busy, busy
   
   Hi:
   I suppose this has already come up on list, but I'm wondering if others 
   are frustrated by VO continuously getting stuck on and repeating "busy," 
   Is there a way to stop that from happening?  And Would this be 
considered 
   a bug to report to Apple.  Sorry if this is old to some of you, but it's 
   new to me as I use the Mac more.
   TIA
   
   Carolyn :)ch
   
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  >>> 
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Re: using facebook with safari

[Israel]

Hi Donna

There are two ways I've stumbled into the edit box.  

1.  On the FB main page where it has a link then a number which is the number 
of notifications you have, I VO+space on the notification link so I can read 
list of notifications.  I came across one stating "Janes Smith commented on 
your status"  so I pressed VO+space on the status link to go read her comment.  
After doing so, instead of pressing the link "home" I pressed command+left 
bracket.  Remembering there was something else I wanted to read on my wall, I 
quickly pressed command+right bracket to move forward.  I was amused by this 
for no apparent reason so I began pressing them several times consecutively.  
Forward back forward back.  When I finally stopped, I was on the main FB site 
ready to resume reading friends' updates when I pressed VO+right arrow to make 
my way down the page and found Voiceover saying the following, "what's on your 
mind edit box"  Sure enough, I was in the box and tested it by updating my 
status and it worked!  So now every so often, I will be on the main FB site and 
activate the link to my profile.  Once on my profile page, I press command+left 
bracket then quickly  command+right bracket so that I keep going back and forth 
several times then I stop at the main FB site and some times, VO then reads the 
edit box and it's accompanying label.

NOTE:  It is a bit strange and it does some times cause VO to turn off then 
turn right back on.

2. The other option is on the FB main site when reading friends' updates, there 
is a heading "friends online" followed by a heading "newsfeed"  I arrow over to 
the two options which read top news and most recent.  I press VO+space on "most 
recent" then VO+right arrow  twice and hear "what's on your mind"  VO only 
reads the label but doesn't put me in the edit box so I press command+r to 
reload the page.  When the page reloads, I quickly move to the newsfeed heading 
and VO+right arrow once and I hear "what's on your mind edit box" and I can 
type in my status.  

NOTE:  Again, this doesn't always work and when it does, I usually have 
anywhere between 30 seconds up to three minutes before mysteriously, access to 
the edit box is no longer possible.  Haven't figured that part out.

I hope that helps Donna.  If there is another way to get access to the edit box 
on the main FB site, I hope someone shares it because the fact that these work 
even if not all the time leads me to believe we're not all that far away from 
someone figuring it out.  I did use FB main site for three months after buying 
my IMac and was able to use the edit box to always update my status. The only 
problem was VO would never read the label "what's on your mind"  It would only 
say "edit box" but I knew I was in the right place because when I used my PC, 
edit box label was read by Window-Eyes and having learned the layout, I knew 
that was indeed the proper edit box to update my status.  Now, with these two 
"out of the box" methods I've been using, VO does read the label so again, I 
know we're close.  I can feel it!!

Israel Antonio
Sexy Isra
www.sexyisra.blogspot.com
www.twitter.com/sexyisra

On Mar 15, 2010, at 9:18 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

> Hi Israel,
> 
> What was the way you "stumbled upon to access that box?
> Donna
> On Mar 15, 2010, at 9:54 AM, Israel wrote:
> 
>> Ronit,
>> 
>> I use the main site.  Yes, I do some times update status via the mobile site 
>> as well as through my twitter account which I have set to also update FB 
>> status.
>> 
>> Other than updating status or writing on walls, I seem to navigate well on 
>> the main site able to "like" a friend's status or comment on his/her 
>> updates.  I can seemingly locate all other edit boxes on the newsfeed, my 
>> profile, or any changes I try to make to my profile, preferences, or 
>> settings.  I just figured out through trial and error as well as several 
>> friends constantly sending me IMs how to use the FB chat on the main site.  
>> Because of this list, I seriously considered download a third party ap for 
>> accessability purposes but if I can do it through the FB chat successfully 
>> then I will stick with that for now.
>> 
>> As for FB aps, I don't play any games on FB other than once in a while 
>> accepting/sending gifts in Mofia Wars but for the most part I only use the 
>> Twitter ap within FB and the "send a drink" and "send a hug" aps and they 
>> all work just fine as I naviagte the tables, edit boxes, or controls.
>> 
>> Oh and I did recently stumble upon a way where I can get the "what's on your 
>> mind" edit box to appear and update my status on the main FB site but it is 
>> kind of hit or miss only working about 40 percent of the time but that's 
>> better than nothing I guess.
>> Hope this helps
>> 
>> Israel Antonio
>> Sexy Isra
>> www.sexyisra.blogspot.com
>> www.twitter.com/sexyisra
>> On Mar 14, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Ronit Ovadia Mazzoni wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> I'm new to the list and ne

Re: using facebook with safari

[Donna Goodin]

Oh, wow!  That's funny.  Well, good for you for figuring it out, even if you 
did stumble upon these methods.  I'll give them both a try.
Cheers,
Donna
On Mar 15, 2010, at 11:23 AM, Israel wrote:

> Hi Donna
> 
> There are two ways I've stumbled into the edit box.  
> 
> 1.  On the FB main page where it has a link then a number which is the number 
> of notifications you have, I VO+space on the notification link so I can read 
> list of notifications.  I came across one stating "Janes Smith commented on 
> your status"  so I pressed VO+space on the status link to go read her 
> comment.  After doing so, instead of pressing the link "home" I pressed 
> command+left bracket.  Remembering there was something else I wanted to read 
> on my wall, I quickly pressed command+right bracket to move forward.  I was 
> amused by this for no apparent reason so I began pressing them several times 
> consecutively.  Forward back forward back.  When I finally stopped, I was on 
> the main FB site ready to resume reading friends' updates when I pressed 
> VO+right arrow to make my way down the page and found Voiceover saying the 
> following, "what's on your mind edit box"  Sure enough, I was in the box and 
> tested it by updating my status and it worked!  So now every so often, I will 
> be on the main FB site and activate the link to my profile.  Once on my 
> profile page, I press command+left bracket then quickly  command+right 
> bracket so that I keep going back and forth several times then I stop at the 
> main FB site and some times, VO then reads the edit box and it's accompanying 
> label.
> 
> NOTE:  It is a bit strange and it does some times cause VO to turn off then 
> turn right back on.
> 
> 2. The other option is on the FB main site when reading friends' updates, 
> there is a heading "friends online" followed by a heading "newsfeed"  I arrow 
> over to the two options which read top news and most recent.  I press 
> VO+space on "most recent" then VO+right arrow  twice and hear "what's on your 
> mind"  VO only reads the label but doesn't put me in the edit box so I press 
> command+r to reload the page.  When the page reloads, I quickly move to the 
> newsfeed heading and VO+right arrow once and I hear "what's on your mind edit 
> box" and I can type in my status.  
> 
> NOTE:  Again, this doesn't always work and when it does, I usually have 
> anywhere between 30 seconds up to three minutes before mysteriously, access 
> to the edit box is no longer possible.  Haven't figured that part out.
> 
> I hope that helps Donna.  If there is another way to get access to the edit 
> box on the main FB site, I hope someone shares it because the fact that these 
> work even if not all the time leads me to believe we're not all that far away 
> from someone figuring it out.  I did use FB main site for three months after 
> buying my IMac and was able to use the edit box to always update my status. 
> The only problem was VO would never read the label "what's on your mind"  It 
> would only say "edit box" but I knew I was in the right place because when I 
> used my PC, edit box label was read by Window-Eyes and having learned the 
> layout, I knew that was indeed the proper edit box to update my status.  Now, 
> with these two "out of the box" methods I've been using, VO does read the 
> label so again, I know we're close.  I can feel it!!
> 
> Israel Antonio
> Sexy Isra
> www.sexyisra.blogspot.com
> www.twitter.com/sexyisra
> 
> On Mar 15, 2010, at 9:18 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> Hi Israel,
>> 
>> What was the way you "stumbled upon to access that box?
>> Donna
>> On Mar 15, 2010, at 9:54 AM, Israel wrote:
>> 
>>> Ronit,
>>> 
>>> I use the main site.  Yes, I do some times update status via the mobile 
>>> site as well as through my twitter account which I have set to also update 
>>> FB status.
>>> 
>>> Other than updating status or writing on walls, I seem to navigate well on 
>>> the main site able to "like" a friend's status or comment on his/her 
>>> updates.  I can seemingly locate all other edit boxes on the newsfeed, my 
>>> profile, or any changes I try to make to my profile, preferences, or 
>>> settings.  I just figured out through trial and error as well as several 
>>> friends constantly sending me IMs how to use the FB chat on the main site.  
>>> Because of this list, I seriously considered download a third party ap for 
>>> accessability purposes but if I can do it through the FB chat successfully 
>>> then I will stick with that for now.
>>> 
>>> As for FB aps, I don't play any games on FB other than once in a while 
>>> accepting/sending gifts in Mofia Wars but for the most part I only use the 
>>> Twitter ap within FB and the "send a drink" and "send a hug" aps and they 
>>> all work just fine as I naviagte the tables, edit boxes, or controls.
>>> 
>>> Oh and I did recently stumble upon a way where I can get the "what's on 
>>> your mind" edit box to appear and update my status on the main FB si

Re: voice over reset itself yesterday. How?

[Søren Jensen]

Hi.

I have a Macbook and I have never had this issue. However, one of my friends 
have an Imac, and he got some more ram in his machine then he bought it. He 
chose some cheeper ram which wasn't recommended by Apple. His Voiceover does 
reset his settings very often. If he reset his ram, it stops for a while, and a 
few weeks later, it starts again.
Have all of you who have this issue upgraded your ram? Best regards
Søren Jensen
Mail & MSN:
s...@coolfortheblind.dk
Website:
http://www.coolfortheblind.dk/

Den Mar 14, 2010 kl. 11:02 PM skrev Esther:

> Hi Sarah,
> 
> This sounds like the same problem that Daniel reported last month, and that 
> Carlene may have seen a bit earlier.  Do you have a copy of you old VoiceOver 
> preference files?  We're not sure why this is happening in these instances, 
> but either as a source or result of the problem you .plist files are getting 
> overwritten or the system thinks they are corrupted and is generating new 
> ones.  (Corrupted preference files are the second most common general 
> problem, but way down in frequency after having to repair permissions with 
> Disk Utility).  I generally save copies of the most frequently used plist 
> files somewhere easily accessed on my home directory.  The ones you are 
> likely to want for VoiceOver are:
> 
> com.apple.universalaccess.plist
> com.apple.VoiceOver.plist
> com.apple.VoiceOver.pronunciations.plist
> Here's the start of Daniel's thread on VoiceOver resetting itself:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries%40googlegroups.com/msg16492.html
> Use Control-N to read down through the thread.  You can also check my post to 
> Carlene about how to navigate to the Preferences folder.  That post lists 
> even more VoiceOver and speech-related plist files:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries%40googlegroups.com/msg13973.html
> If you have any of the old plist files around from a backup, just copy them 
> into the Library/Preferences folder under your home directory and they should 
> be used instead.
> HTH
> Cheers,
> Esther
> 
> 
> Sarah Alawami wrote:
> 
>> sorry to the cross posting.
>> 
>> Hello to all. Voice over reset itself yesterday and i can't figure out how. 
>> I am still trying get it not to say now in window or leaving tool bar or 
>> table or what ever and application when I focus something. I'v checked the 
>> settings in the vo control panel but I can't find anything that would change 
>> this.
>> 
>> any help would be good as I'm getting frustrated, fast.
>> 
>> Take care.
>> 
>> 
>> Sarah Alawami
>> marri...@gmail.com
>> msn: chell...@hotmail.com
>> website: http://music.marrie.org
>> twitter: http://twitter.com/marrie1
>> podcast: http://marrie.podbean.com/feeds
>> 
> 
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Re: safari busy, busy, busy

[Søren Jensen]

Hi Carolyn.

You can try to do the following to fix this issue:
1: Close all your wegits
2: Remember to close all windows in Finder pretty often.
This have fixed the issue on my machine.
Best regards
Søren Jensen
Mail & MSN:
s...@coolfortheblind.dk
Website:
http://www.coolfortheblind.dk/

Den Mar 14, 2010 kl. 6:25 PM skrev Carolyn:

> No Brian, actually it's a macbook pro 13, and the busy thing just seems to 
> get stuck repeating itself in Safari, and sometimes even in itunes.  Just 
> kind of quirky.
>  
> Carolyn
> - Original Message -
> From: Bryan Smart
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 5:30 PM
> Subject: RE: safari busy, busy, busy
> 
> I bet you have a Mac Mini without a monitor.
> 
> Bryan 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionar...@googlegroups.com[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
> On Behalf Of Carolyn
> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 3:31 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: safari busy, busy, busy
> 
> Hi:
> I suppose this has already come up on list, but I'm wondering if others are 
> frustrated by VO continuously getting stuck on and repeating "busy," Is there 
> a way to stop that from happening?  And Would this be considered a bug to 
> report to Apple.  Sorry if this is old to some of you, but it's new to me as 
> I use the Mac more.
> TIA
>  
> Carolyn :)ch
> 
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Re: using facebook with safari

[Ricardo Walker]

That is not true.  
On Mar 15, 2010, at 9:50 AM, May McDonald wrote:

> It's not just a mac thing. You can't do it with windows either.
> On 2010-03-15, at 5:49 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> The problem with this is that the lite site, like the mobile site, won't let 
>> you interface with the apps.  Personally, I really think this is something 
>> Apple needs to work on.
>> Best,
>> Donna
>> On Mar 14, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Portia Scott wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Ronit,
>>> 
>>> The only other idea I have is to try this site:
>>> 
>>> lite.facebook.com
>>> 
>>> Hth,
>>> 
>>> Portia
>>> On Mar 14, 2010, at 7:07 PM, Ronit Ovadia Mazzoni wrote:
>>> 
 Hello all,
 I'm new to the list and new to using Mac. I just got my mac mini two weeks 
 ago and so far I'm really enjoying it. One thing I'd like to know is if 
 any of you use the regular facebook site with safari and voiceover 
 successfully? I'm having trouble locating edit boxes on the site. For 
 example, updating status messages, writing on people's walls, etc. Of 
 course I can do this by accessing the mobile site but the mobile site is 
 not as powerful as the full site and I'd like to use the full site if 
 possible. If any of you have any tricks or tips, I'd love to hear them.
 Thanks.
 Ronit
 
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Re: using facebook with safari

[clarence griffin]

I think that's a crazy work around. Never had to do that, nor do I think I want 
to even go there. lol. I will just use the idom chooser. lol. it seams to work 
just fine over here.

GF

Goldfinga Productions
Phone: 757-412-5494

Follow me on twitter
http://www.twitter.com/goldfingas



On Mar 15, 2010, at 11:23 AM, Israel wrote:

> Hi Donna
> 
> There are two ways I've stumbled into the edit box.  
> 
> 1.  On the FB main page where it has a link then a number which is the number 
> of notifications you have, I VO+space on the notification link so I can read 
> list of notifications.  I came across one stating "Janes Smith commented on 
> your status"  so I pressed VO+space on the status link to go read her 
> comment.  After doing so, instead of pressing the link "home" I pressed 
> command+left bracket.  Remembering there was something else I wanted to read 
> on my wall, I quickly pressed command+right bracket to move forward.  I was 
> amused by this for no apparent reason so I began pressing them several times 
> consecutively.  Forward back forward back.  When I finally stopped, I was on 
> the main FB site ready to resume reading friends' updates when I pressed 
> VO+right arrow to make my way down the page and found Voiceover saying the 
> following, "what's on your mind edit box"  Sure enough, I was in the box and 
> tested it by updating my status and it worked!  So now every so often, I will 
> be on the main FB site and activate the link to my profile.  Once on my 
> profile page, I press command+left bracket then quickly  command+right 
> bracket so that I keep going back and forth several times then I stop at the 
> main FB site and some times, VO then reads the edit box and it's accompanying 
> label.
> 
> NOTE:  It is a bit strange and it does some times cause VO to turn off then 
> turn right back on.
> 
> 2. The other option is on the FB main site when reading friends' updates, 
> there is a heading "friends online" followed by a heading "newsfeed"  I arrow 
> over to the two options which read top news and most recent.  I press 
> VO+space on "most recent" then VO+right arrow  twice and hear "what's on your 
> mind"  VO only reads the label but doesn't put me in the edit box so I press 
> command+r to reload the page.  When the page reloads, I quickly move to the 
> newsfeed heading and VO+right arrow once and I hear "what's on your mind edit 
> box" and I can type in my status.  
> 
> NOTE:  Again, this doesn't always work and when it does, I usually have 
> anywhere between 30 seconds up to three minutes before mysteriously, access 
> to the edit box is no longer possible.  Haven't figured that part out.
> 
> I hope that helps Donna.  If there is another way to get access to the edit 
> box on the main FB site, I hope someone shares it because the fact that these 
> work even if not all the time leads me to believe we're not all that far away 
> from someone figuring it out.  I did use FB main site for three months after 
> buying my IMac and was able to use the edit box to always update my status. 
> The only problem was VO would never read the label "what's on your mind"  It 
> would only say "edit box" but I knew I was in the right place because when I 
> used my PC, edit box label was read by Window-Eyes and having learned the 
> layout, I knew that was indeed the proper edit box to update my status.  Now, 
> with these two "out of the box" methods I've been using, VO does read the 
> label so again, I know we're close.  I can feel it!!
> 
> Israel Antonio
> Sexy Isra
> www.sexyisra.blogspot.com
> www.twitter.com/sexyisra
> 
> On Mar 15, 2010, at 9:18 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> Hi Israel,
>> 
>> What was the way you "stumbled upon to access that box?
>> Donna
>> On Mar 15, 2010, at 9:54 AM, Israel wrote:
>> 
>>> Ronit,
>>> 
>>> I use the main site.  Yes, I do some times update status via the mobile 
>>> site as well as through my twitter account which I have set to also update 
>>> FB status.
>>> 
>>> Other than updating status or writing on walls, I seem to navigate well on 
>>> the main site able to "like" a friend's status or comment on his/her 
>>> updates.  I can seemingly locate all other edit boxes on the newsfeed, my 
>>> profile, or any changes I try to make to my profile, preferences, or 
>>> settings.  I just figured out through trial and error as well as several 
>>> friends constantly sending me IMs how to use the FB chat on the main site.  
>>> Because of this list, I seriously considered download a third party ap for 
>>> accessability purposes but if I can do it through the FB chat successfully 
>>> then I will stick with that for now.
>>> 
>>> As for FB aps, I don't play any games on FB other than once in a while 
>>> accepting/sending gifts in Mofia Wars but for the most part I only use the 
>>> Twitter ap within FB and the "send a drink" and "send a hug" aps and they 
>>> all work just fine as I naviagte the tables, edit boxes, or controls.
>>> 
>>> Oh and I 

weird announcement all the time

[Scott Ballard-RidleyScott Ridley]

Hi all

i have a bit of a strange problem. i seem to keep getting a summary of
the features of text. the announcement tells me the text style,
colour, size etc. i don't know how i turned this on but if someone
could help me then it would diffuse a lot of annoyance.

Regards

Scott

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RE: apple trap: removing programs and all the related components

[Bryan Smart]

Hi.

I think that, if app pieces are left over in /library, then they won't slow 
down the computer, since nothing will be loading them. However, they take up 
disk space, increase the required size for your backups, etc. It is certainly a 
better situation than on Windows, for example, but I'd really like to get rid 
of all of the bits.

Sometimes I can see obvious bits, like a folder in app support. Other times, 
though, items are tucked away in the other folders: a plug in, a startup item, 
etc. That's what I'd like to be able to remove reliably.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of James & Nash
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:27 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: apple trap: removing programs and all the related components

Hi Bian, 

Which Library are you referring to? I generally just go in and remove 
everything that is related to a deleted app, unless of course it is being used 
by something else.

But in most cases, I think it is safe to remove everything associated with a 
given application. Perhaps someone could confirm this, but I don't think Mac OS 
X treats applications and their associated files as UNIX or Linux does, with 
its bias towards "dependencies". I think this is quite a good way of using 
resources, as any application that needs a given file can use it, and their no 
need to keep downloading the same files for different applications. 

TC
James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny
On 14 Mar 2010, at 19:06, Bryan Smart wrote:

> Except a bunch of bits and pieces under /library. I'm never quite sure what 
> old crud is safe to delete in their, but there are always lots of support 
> files.
> 
> Bryan
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James & Nash
> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 2:33 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: apple trap: removing programs and all the related 
> components
> 
> Hi William,
> 
> 99% of the time, sending applications to the Trash is exactly the right way 
> to go about removing them. There are sometimes support files and application 
> preferences floating around, and if you know where  to look to get rid of 
> them then feel free. But leaving them on the system isn't going to do any 
> harm. The other 1% of the time, you may need to run an uninstaller. But the 
> vast majority of applications do not use one. In fact, I'm not sure why 
> certain apps do. Perhaps they are just too big to be contained in a disk 
> image.
> 
> You should also remember , that because Mac OS X is based upon UNIX, there is 
> no Registry to worry about. You won't find pesky bits of redundant 
> application related stuff all over your system. 
> 
> TC
> James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny
> On 14 Mar 2010, at 17:43, William Windels wrote:
> 
>> Hello Jes,
>> I have successfully removed the shortcuts/icons from the doc, so far so good.
>> I have not really a problem with this icons on the doc but, I only want to 
>> take care about my actual install of mac osx and for that , I want to be 
>> shore that: 
>> removing programs by moving them to the trash , is a good , save and 
>> efficient way of removing programs.
>> Also, I want to know if apple trap is sufficient and enough to keep my 
>> computer clean without parts of programs on my system after removing them.
>> On windows, after installing and uninstalling alot of programs , the system 
>> becomes slow and inefficiënt because of some parts of the programs in shared 
>> components, rules in the registry , inactive shortcuts...
>> Because of this , you need sometimes to re-install your windows to delete 
>> all that rubish.
>> 
>> So, I want to know if mac is doing better and if apple trap is enough to do 
>> this task.
>> 
>> best regards,
>> William
>> Op 14-mrt-2010, om 18:22 heeft Jess het volgende geschreven:
>> 
>>> I have now removed all the items in the trash and the elements of microsoft 
>>> office (for the mac), are still on the dock. Is this normal?
>>> Yep, gotta love Microsoft. Even though you removed some big bloated 
>>> program, they leave little traces of it around, even on your Mac. Try going 
>>> to the dock and removing the appropriate items. Let us know if that fixes 
>>> your problem.
>>> Jes
>>> 
>>> On Mar 14, 2010, at 1:11 PM, William Windels wrote:
>>> 
 Hello all,
 I have a question about removing programs:
 I have deleted programs with the program apple trap.
 The program, this is a plugin for the system prefferences, was active and 
 I simply putted the programs in the trash.
 
 Perhaps I have done something wrong while removing microsoft office with 
 apptrap?
 I think, all files are selected by default to remove?
 
 I have now removed all the items in the trash and the elements of 
 microsoft office (for the mac), are still on the dock.
 
 
 Is this n

RE: safari busy, busy, busy

[Bryan Smart]

It might use memory better, but often that means that we just think of more 
things for it to do with that extra memory. *smile* 

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Rich Ring
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:02 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: safari busy, busy, busy

But I think ZI'd have to have a Mac Book Pro in order to have 8 gigs of ram.
Half the reason I wanted to get into the Mac world was that OSX is supposed to 
use memory  more efficiently.
- Original Message -
From: "Bryan Smart" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 2:17 PM
Subject: RE: safari busy, busy, busy


That's true as long as you're only running desktop apps.

If you're using virtual machines, for example, 8GB will be better. A Windows
7 VM needs 3GB of memory to run with maximum performance, for example, and, 
with 4GB, that wouldn't leave you much for OSX. You can always run your virtual 
machines with less memory, and start fewer apps in them, but you'll hurt 
performance.

8GB is only about $350 right now in the US. It isn't that serious of a purchase 
if you do serious computing.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Howell
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:57 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: safari busy, busy, busy

Four gigs is more than sufficient and any additional benefits from installing 
more ram will not justify the expense of the ram.
I have four gigs and I run a lot of stuff at once with no noticeable hit on 
performance.

On Mar 13, 2010, at 6:45 PM, Kimberly thurman wrote:

> Happens to me a lot and I'm using a 13 inch Macbook Pro.  It only has2 
> gigs of ram and I'm thinking that is causing some of my problems.  I 
> get the busy stuff when I have multiple aps open.
>
> This leads me to a question of my own.  I see  that it is possible to 
> upgrade ram.  My husband could do this for me, but how much ram is enough?
> I read that I could put up to 8 gigs of ram in this thing.  Is that 
> over kill?  Would 4 gigs be enough?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Kim
> On Mar 13, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:
>
>> I bet you have a Mac Mini without a monitor.
>>
>> Bryan
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn
>> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 3:31 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: safari busy, busy, busy
>>
>> Hi:
>> I suppose this has already come up on list, but I'm wondering if 
>> others are frustrated by VO continuously getting stuck on and repeating 
>> "busy,"
>> Is there a way to stop that from happening?  And Would this be 
>> considered a bug to report to Apple.  Sorry if this is old to some of 
>> you, but it's new to me as I use the Mac more.
>> TIA
>>
>> Carolyn :)ch
>>
>> --
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>
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RE: safari busy, busy, busy

[Bryan Smart]

Beyond helping to reduce the freeze ups when possible, I really hope that Apple 
will make it possible to slow down the repetition of the busy message. When VO 
says "busy busy busy busy" right back-to-back, it feels something like 
annoying. I know the program is busy. I'd be satisfied if it just reminded me 
once every 5 seconds, particularly since it will say "ready" when the program 
is no longer "busy".

Bryan


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Carolyn
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 11:07 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: safari busy, busy, busy

Kim:
I did write to accessibility at apple to see if they have any thoughts on the 
repetition issue.  I'll post their response if I get one.
 
Carolyn

- Original Message - 
From: Kimberly thurman   
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: safari busy, busy, busy

I must say that I had trouble with the busy thing yesterday when I set 
up Genius in ITunes.  I suppose this must be a very memory-intensive process, 
as it bogged my computer down for several minutes and I got the busy message 
intermittently during this whole time.  
On Mar 14, 2010, at 6:36 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:

> it does except for
> 1. when safary decides to hickup and
> 
> 2, you try and mark 4000 messages as read at once. don't do that. lol.
> On Mar 14, 2010, at 3:02 PM, Rich Ring wrote:
> 
>> But I think ZI'd have to have a Mac Book Pro in order to have 8 gigs 
of ram.
>> Half the reason I wanted to get into the Mac world was that OSX is 
supposed 
>> to use memory  more efficiently.
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Bryan Smart" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 2:17 PM
>> Subject: RE: safari busy, busy, busy
>> 
>> 
>> That's true as long as you're only running desktop apps.
>> 
>> If you're using virtual machines, for example, 8GB will be better. A 
Windows 
>> 7 VM needs 3GB of memory to run with maximum performance, for 
example, and, 
>> with 4GB, that wouldn't leave you much for OSX. You can always run 
your 
>> virtual machines with less memory, and start fewer apps in them, but 
you'll 
>> hurt performance.
>> 
>> 8GB is only about $350 right now in the US. It isn't that serious of 
a 
>> purchase if you do serious computing.
>> 
>> Bryan
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Howell
>> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:57 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: safari busy, busy, busy
>> 
>> Four gigs is more than sufficient and any additional benefits from 
>> installing more ram will not justify the expense of the ram.
>> I have four gigs and I run a lot of stuff at once with no noticeable 
hit on 
>> performance.
>> 
>> On Mar 13, 2010, at 6:45 PM, Kimberly thurman wrote:
>> 
>>> Happens to me a lot and I'm using a 13 inch Macbook Pro.  It only 
has2 
>>> gigs of ram and I'm thinking that is causing some of my problems.  
I get 
>>> the busy stuff when I have multiple aps open.
>>> 
>>> This leads me to a question of my own.  I see  that it is possible 
to 
>>> upgrade ram.  My husband could do this for me, but how much ram is 
enough? 
>>> I read that I could put up to 8 gigs of ram in this thing.  Is that 
over 
>>> kill?  Would 4 gigs be enough?
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>> 
>>> Kim
>>> On Mar 13, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:
>>> 
 I bet you have a Mac Mini without a monitor.
 
 Bryan
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn
 Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 3:31 PM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: safari busy, busy, busy
 
 Hi:
 I suppose this has already come up on list, but I'm wondering if 
others 
 are frustrated by VO continuously getting stuck on and repeating 
"busy," 
 Is there a way to stop that from happening?  And Would this be 
considered 
 a bug to report to Apple.  Sorry if this is old to some of you, 
but it's 
 new to me as I use the Mac more.
 TIA
 
 Carolyn :)ch
>>

Re: apple trap: removing programs and all the related components

[Slau Halatyn]

I seem to remember an application called App zapper that removes application 
droppings fairly well, apparently. I haven't used it myself but I recall 
hearing good things about it.

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Re: safari busy, busy, busy

[Ricardo Walker]

I agree with you 100%.  That busy busy busy can bring me to the brink of 
violence.  lol   
On Mar 15, 2010, at 12:48 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:

> Beyond helping to reduce the freeze ups when possible, I really hope that 
> Apple will make it possible to slow down the repetition of the busy message. 
> When VO says "busy busy busy busy" right back-to-back, it feels something 
> like annoying. I know the program is busy. I'd be satisfied if it just 
> reminded me once every 5 seconds, particularly since it will say "ready" when 
> the program is no longer "busy".
> 
> Bryan
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn
> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 11:07 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: safari busy, busy, busy
> 
> Kim:
> I did write to accessibility at apple to see if they have any thoughts on the 
> repetition issue.  I'll post their response if I get one.
> 
> Carolyn
> 
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: Kimberly thurman   
>   To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>   Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 9:12 PM
>   Subject: Re: safari busy, busy, busy
> 
>   I must say that I had trouble with the busy thing yesterday when I set 
> up Genius in ITunes.  I suppose this must be a very memory-intensive process, 
> as it bogged my computer down for several minutes and I got the busy message 
> intermittently during this whole time.  
>   On Mar 14, 2010, at 6:36 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>   
>   > it does except for
>   > 1. when safary decides to hickup and
>   > 
>   > 2, you try and mark 4000 messages as read at once. don't do that. lol.
>   > On Mar 14, 2010, at 3:02 PM, Rich Ring wrote:
>   > 
>   >> But I think ZI'd have to have a Mac Book Pro in order to have 8 gigs 
> of ram.
>   >> Half the reason I wanted to get into the Mac world was that OSX is 
> supposed 
>   >> to use memory  more efficiently.
>   >> - Original Message - 
>   >> From: "Bryan Smart" 
>   >> To: 
>   >> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 2:17 PM
>   >> Subject: RE: safari busy, busy, busy
>   >> 
>   >> 
>   >> That's true as long as you're only running desktop apps.
>   >> 
>   >> If you're using virtual machines, for example, 8GB will be better. A 
> Windows 
>   >> 7 VM needs 3GB of memory to run with maximum performance, for 
> example, and, 
>   >> with 4GB, that wouldn't leave you much for OSX. You can always run 
> your 
>   >> virtual machines with less memory, and start fewer apps in them, but 
> you'll 
>   >> hurt performance.
>   >> 
>   >> 8GB is only about $350 right now in the US. It isn't that serious of 
> a 
>   >> purchase if you do serious computing.
>   >> 
>   >> Bryan
>   >> 
>   >> -Original Message-
>   >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>   >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Howell
>   >> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:57 PM
>   >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>   >> Subject: Re: safari busy, busy, busy
>   >> 
>   >> Four gigs is more than sufficient and any additional benefits from 
>   >> installing more ram will not justify the expense of the ram.
>   >> I have four gigs and I run a lot of stuff at once with no noticeable 
> hit on 
>   >> performance.
>   >> 
>   >> On Mar 13, 2010, at 6:45 PM, Kimberly thurman wrote:
>   >> 
>   >>> Happens to me a lot and I'm using a 13 inch Macbook Pro.  It only 
> has2 
>   >>> gigs of ram and I'm thinking that is causing some of my problems.  
> I get 
>   >>> the busy stuff when I have multiple aps open.
>   >>> 
>   >>> This leads me to a question of my own.  I see  that it is possible 
> to 
>   >>> upgrade ram.  My husband could do this for me, but how much ram is 
> enough? 
>   >>> I read that I could put up to 8 gigs of ram in this thing.  Is that 
> over 
>   >>> kill?  Would 4 gigs be enough?
>   >>> 
>   >>> Thanks in advance.
>   >>> 
>   >>> Kim
>   >>> On Mar 13, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:
>   >>> 
>    I bet you have a Mac Mini without a monitor.
>    
>    Bryan
>    
>    -Original Message-
>    From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>    [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn
>    Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 3:31 PM
>    To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>    Subject: safari busy, busy, busy
>    
>    Hi:
>    I suppose this has already come up on list, but I'm wondering if 
> others 
>    are frustrated by VO continuously getting stuck on and repeating 
> "busy," 
>    Is there a way to stop that from happening?  And Wou

nls book readers

[Maxwell Ivey Jr.]

Hello list;  After reading the posts on here about nls players, it got  
me to take action and visit the nls site to sign up for the bard  
program.  I wasn't surprised to find out there is a waiting list for  
the new players, but i was surprised that its a year long unless you  
are a veterin.  so, what are the major book readers out there, and how  
do they rank?  To help with this discussion, I'm not looking for it to  
do everything just read the books and magazines.  I'm also not looking  
to spend a lot of money if I don't have to.  I'll appreciate any  
suggestions or opinions.  Thanks and take care, Max 


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Re: apple trap: removing programs and all the related components

[Jim Gatteys]

Hi bryan and all!
I haven't been following this app thread till today so it might have already 
been mentioned.
There's a program out there that I purchased for 7.95 called AppDelete-- a 
great little app remover.  I got it from:
http://www.versiontracker.com

You can drag and drop apps onto it or add them with menus.  It gives you 
everything that it will remove before it does it and then puts them in the 
trash in a folder so you can recover if you made a mistake.
Jim


On Mar 15, 2010, at 11:44 AM, Bryan Smart wrote:

> Hi.
> 
> I think that, if app pieces are left over in /library, then they won't slow 
> down the computer, since nothing will be loading them. However, they take up 
> disk space, increase the required size for your backups, etc. It is certainly 
> a better situation than on Windows, for example, but I'd really like to get 
> rid of all of the bits.
> 
> Sometimes I can see obvious bits, like a folder in app support. Other times, 
> though, items are tucked away in the other folders: a plug in, a startup 
> item, etc. That's what I'd like to be able to remove reliably.
> 
> Bryan
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James & Nash
> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:27 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: apple trap: removing programs and all the related components
> 
> Hi Bian, 
> 
> Which Library are you referring to? I generally just go in and remove 
> everything that is related to a deleted app, unless of course it is being 
> used by something else.
> 
> But in most cases, I think it is safe to remove everything associated with a 
> given application. Perhaps someone could confirm this, but I don't think Mac 
> OS X treats applications and their associated files as UNIX or Linux does, 
> with its bias towards "dependencies". I think this is quite a good way of 
> using resources, as any application that needs a given file can use it, and 
> their no need to keep downloading the same files for different applications. 
> 
> TC
> James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny
> On 14 Mar 2010, at 19:06, Bryan Smart wrote:
> 
>> Except a bunch of bits and pieces under /library. I'm never quite sure what 
>> old crud is safe to delete in their, but there are always lots of support 
>> files.
>> 
>> Bryan
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James & Nash
>> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 2:33 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: apple trap: removing programs and all the related 
>> components
>> 
>> Hi William,
>> 
>> 99% of the time, sending applications to the Trash is exactly the right way 
>> to go about removing them. There are sometimes support files and application 
>> preferences floating around, and if you know where  to look to get rid of 
>> them then feel free. But leaving them on the system isn't going to do any 
>> harm. The other 1% of the time, you may need to run an uninstaller. But the 
>> vast majority of applications do not use one. In fact, I'm not sure why 
>> certain apps do. Perhaps they are just too big to be contained in a disk 
>> image.
>> 
>> You should also remember , that because Mac OS X is based upon UNIX, there 
>> is no Registry to worry about. You won't find pesky bits of redundant 
>> application related stuff all over your system. 
>> 
>> TC
>> James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny
>> On 14 Mar 2010, at 17:43, William Windels wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello Jes,
>>> I have successfully removed the shortcuts/icons from the doc, so far so 
>>> good.
>>> I have not really a problem with this icons on the doc but, I only want to 
>>> take care about my actual install of mac osx and for that , I want to be 
>>> shore that: 
>>> removing programs by moving them to the trash , is a good , save and 
>>> efficient way of removing programs.
>>> Also, I want to know if apple trap is sufficient and enough to keep my 
>>> computer clean without parts of programs on my system after removing them.
>>> On windows, after installing and uninstalling alot of programs , the system 
>>> becomes slow and inefficiënt because of some parts of the programs in 
>>> shared components, rules in the registry , inactive shortcuts...
>>> Because of this , you need sometimes to re-install your windows to delete 
>>> all that rubish.
>>> 
>>> So, I want to know if mac is doing better and if apple trap is enough to do 
>>> this task.
>>> 
>>> best regards,
>>> William
>>> Op 14-mrt-2010, om 18:22 heeft Jess het volgende geschreven:
>>> 
 I have now removed all the items in the trash and the elements of 
 microsoft office (for the mac), are still on the dock. Is this normal?
 Yep, gotta love Microsoft. Even though you removed some big bloated 
 program, they leave little traces of it around, even on your Mac. Try 
 going to the dock and removing the appropriate items. Let us know if that 
>>

Need Twitter client suggestions

[Lynn Schneider]

I know this has come up frequently on the list, but I have recently been bitten 
by the Twitter bug and want to know what you all think is the best client to 
try.  I have downloaded Tweetery for the iPod Touch, but I need something for 
the Mac and want to know what the latest information is regarding clients.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

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Re: Need Twitter client suggestions

[E.J. Zufelt]

Good afternoon Lynn,

I haven't tried many, but I love Syrinx.

http://www.mrrsoftware.com/MRRSoftware/Syrinx.html


Everett Zufelt
http://zufelt.ca

Follow me on Twitter
http://twitter.com/ezufelt

View my LinkedIn Profile
http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt



On 2010-03-15, at 2:42 PM, Lynn Schneider wrote:

> I know this has come up frequently on the list, but I have recently been 
> bitten by the Twitter bug and want to know what you all think is the best 
> client to try.  I have downloaded Tweetery for the iPod Touch, but I need 
> something for the Mac and want to know what the latest information is 
> regarding clients.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
> 
> -- 
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> 

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Re: apple trap: removing programs and all the related components

[James & Nash]

Hi Brian,


On 15 Mar 2010, at 16:44, Bryan Smart wrote:
> I think that, if app pieces are left over in /library, then they won't slow 
> down the computer, since nothing will be loading them. However, they take up 
> disk space, increase the required size for your backups, etc. It is certainly 
> a better situation than on Windows, for example, but I'd really like to get 
> rid of all of the bits.
Have you tried App Delete. I don't have a URL, but I think its around 8.00 USD.

TC
James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny

> Hi.
> 
> I think that, if app pieces are left over in /library, then they won't slow 
> down the computer, since nothing will be loading them. However, they take up 
> disk space, increase the required size for your backups, etc. It is certainly 
> a better situation than on Windows, for example, but I'd really like to get 
> rid of all of the bits.
> 
> Sometimes I can see obvious bits, like a folder in app support. Other times, 
> though, items are tucked away in the other folders: a plug in, a startup 
> item, etc. That's what I'd like to be able to remove reliably.
> 
> Bryan
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James & Nash
> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:27 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: apple trap: removing programs and all the related components
> 
> Hi Bian, 
> 
> Which Library are you referring to? I generally just go in and remove 
> everything that is related to a deleted app, unless of course it is being 
> used by something else.
> 
> But in most cases, I think it is safe to remove everything associated with a 
> given application. Perhaps someone could confirm this, but I don't think Mac 
> OS X treats applications and their associated files as UNIX or Linux does, 
> with its bias towards "dependencies". I think this is quite a good way of 
> using resources, as any application that needs a given file can use it, and 
> their no need to keep downloading the same files for different applications. 
> 
> TC
> James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny
> On 14 Mar 2010, at 19:06, Bryan Smart wrote:
> 
>> Except a bunch of bits and pieces under /library. I'm never quite sure what 
>> old crud is safe to delete in their, but there are always lots of support 
>> files.
>> 
>> Bryan
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James & Nash
>> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 2:33 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: apple trap: removing programs and all the related 
>> components
>> 
>> Hi William,
>> 
>> 99% of the time, sending applications to the Trash is exactly the right way 
>> to go about removing them. There are sometimes support files and application 
>> preferences floating around, and if you know where  to look to get rid of 
>> them then feel free. But leaving them on the system isn't going to do any 
>> harm. The other 1% of the time, you may need to run an uninstaller. But the 
>> vast majority of applications do not use one. In fact, I'm not sure why 
>> certain apps do. Perhaps they are just too big to be contained in a disk 
>> image.
>> 
>> You should also remember , that because Mac OS X is based upon UNIX, there 
>> is no Registry to worry about. You won't find pesky bits of redundant 
>> application related stuff all over your system. 
>> 
>> TC
>> James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny
>> On 14 Mar 2010, at 17:43, William Windels wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello Jes,
>>> I have successfully removed the shortcuts/icons from the doc, so far so 
>>> good.
>>> I have not really a problem with this icons on the doc but, I only want to 
>>> take care about my actual install of mac osx and for that , I want to be 
>>> shore that: 
>>> removing programs by moving them to the trash , is a good , save and 
>>> efficient way of removing programs.
>>> Also, I want to know if apple trap is sufficient and enough to keep my 
>>> computer clean without parts of programs on my system after removing them.
>>> On windows, after installing and uninstalling alot of programs , the system 
>>> becomes slow and inefficiënt because of some parts of the programs in 
>>> shared components, rules in the registry , inactive shortcuts...
>>> Because of this , you need sometimes to re-install your windows to delete 
>>> all that rubish.
>>> 
>>> So, I want to know if mac is doing better and if apple trap is enough to do 
>>> this task.
>>> 
>>> best regards,
>>> William
>>> Op 14-mrt-2010, om 18:22 heeft Jess het volgende geschreven:
>>> 
 I have now removed all the items in the trash and the elements of 
 microsoft office (for the mac), are still on the dock. Is this normal?
 Yep, gotta love Microsoft. Even though you removed some big bloated 
 program, they leave little traces of it around, even on your Mac. Try 
 going to the dock and removing the appropriate items. Let us know if that 
 fixes your 

Re: Need Twitter client suggestions

[Portia Scott]

Hello Lynn,

Yep, Syrinx is great. I love using it when I am on my mac, smile.

Hth,

Portia.
On Mar 15, 2010, at 11:52 AM, E.J. Zufelt wrote:

> Good afternoon Lynn,
> 
> I haven't tried many, but I love Syrinx.
> 
> http://www.mrrsoftware.com/MRRSoftware/Syrinx.html
> 
> 
> Everett Zufelt
> http://zufelt.ca
> 
> Follow me on Twitter
> http://twitter.com/ezufelt
> 
> View my LinkedIn Profile
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
> 
> 
> 
> On 2010-03-15, at 2:42 PM, Lynn Schneider wrote:
> 
>> I know this has come up frequently on the list, but I have recently been 
>> bitten by the Twitter bug and want to know what you all think is the best 
>> client to try.  I have downloaded Tweetery for the iPod Touch, but I need 
>> something for the Mac and want to know what the latest information is 
>> regarding clients.
>> 
>> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
>> 
>> -- 
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>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> 
> 
> 
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Re: using facebook with safari

[Maurice Mines]

hi i don't have eny problems using facebook btw I only use the moble site. 
maurice ham call kd0iko. on spring brake.
On Mar 15, 2010, at 8:16 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

> Hi Everett,
> 
> I agree 100%.  And, I would add that it isn't fair that Apple should have to 
> deal with other developers' sloppy design.  That said I do think it's in 
> Apple's best interest to do so.  Personally, I'd love to see more blind users 
> switch to the Mac, but it's hard to make that argument in a convincing way if 
> you also have to tell them, "Well,  You'll love using your Mac, but it will 
> probably be an extension of your PC, rather than replacing it."  Given the 
> cost of a Mac, that doesn't make for a very compelling argument to switch. :)
> 
> I also think that if Apple wants to present VO as giving out-of-the-box 
> accessibility, having a glitch like that on a site as popular as Facebook 
> detracts from that claim.
> Just my $.02.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> On Mar 15, 2010, at 9:04 AM, E.J. Zufelt wrote:
> 
>> On 2010-03-15, at 9:05 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> 
>>> Your point about Facebook and web standards is well-taken, but 
>>> Facebook--whether they follow web standards or not--is a very widely used 
>>> site.  For me right now, this is just one more thing that my Mac can't do 
>>> that my PC can.  The more things like that that are out there, the less 
>>> likely it is that the Mac can take the place of the PC.
>> 
>> * Good morning Donna,
>> 
>> I definitely understand your point of view, and I share it in part.  The 
>> reason that some technologies work better with assistive technologies on 
>> Windows than on the Mac, not speaking about Facebook in particular, is 
>> because assistive technology vendors for Windows accommodate application and 
>> web development techniques that don't follow standards.  The Apple approach, 
>> which has annoyed me more often than not, is to not accommodate these poorly 
>> written applications and web-sites.  Arguably the owness for making an 
>> application accessible is that of the developer, and not of the assistive 
>> technology vendor, however, this means that some things will be poorly 
>> accessible, since generally speaking developers don't really tend to 
>> understand accessibility, or standards in general, very well.
>> 
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>> 
> 
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Re: Need Twitter client suggestions

[Mark BurningHawk Baxter]

I use Syrinx, and have also used Twitterific, but like Syrynx better  
because of its filtering ability.


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RE: nls book readers

[Blake Sinnett]

Hi,

 

As far as the Mac is concerned, there are none that I know of right now.

 

HTH,

Blake
 
> From: maxwelli...@aol.com
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: nls book readers
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:46:14 -0500
> 
> Hello list; After reading the posts on here about nls players, it got 
> me to take action and visit the nls site to sign up for the bard 
> program. I wasn't surprised to find out there is a waiting list for 
> the new players, but i was surprised that its a year long unless you 
> are a veterin. so, what are the major book readers out there, and how 
> do they rank? To help with this discussion, I'm not looking for it to 
> do everything just read the books and magazines. I'm also not looking 
> to spend a lot of money if I don't have to. I'll appreciate any 
> suggestions or opinions. Thanks and take care, Max 
> 
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> 
  

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ReadHear DAISY-player

[David Hole]

Hi folks
I was surfing the internet yesterday, and was looking at the daisy.org site.
Then I found a new DAISY-player for the Mac that seems interesting.
I don't think this one have been discussed here at the list before.
The player has the name ReadHear, and after a little use, it seems to be 
a great one.
I've added my DAISY-book library from my PC to it, and yeah, it works - 
Also with my norwegian books (wich is the most important for me)
If ye'd like to check it out, go here: 
http://www.gh-accessibility.com/products/readhear_mac
Hope ye guys can comment this one, and we all have to report issues of 
all kinds :)

Kind regards David

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Adium weirdness!

[Jim Gatteys]

Hi all!
in the past couple of days I've noticed some adium weirdness and wonder if 
anybody else has noticed it.  When I start Adium it pauses and gives me a "user 
notification" message but I can't find anything in the window that looks like a 
problem
-it just delays and I can't figure out why this might be happening?
Anybody have any ideas?
Thanks,
Jim

Find me on facebook or:
Skype: jimintexas
Yahoo or Aim/Ichat: jgatteys
Msn: jgatt...@gmail.com

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Re: Adium weirdness!

[clarence griffin]

maybe that's one of your accounts having a problem logging in? I don't know. I 
had that happen before, then it fixed its self.

GF

Goldfinga Productions
Phone: 757-412-5494

Follow me on twitter
http://www.twitter.com/goldfingas



On Mar 15, 2010, at 5:06 PM, Jim Gatteys wrote:

> Hi all!
> in the past couple of days I've noticed some adium weirdness and wonder if 
> anybody else has noticed it.  When I start Adium it pauses and gives me a 
> "user notification" message but I can't find anything in the window that 
> looks like a problem
> -it just delays and I can't figure out why this might be happening?
> Anybody have any ideas?
> Thanks,
> Jim
> 
> Find me on facebook or:
> Skype: jimintexas
> Yahoo or Aim/Ichat: jgatteys
> Msn: jgatt...@gmail.com
> 
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> 

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Re: nls book readers

[Rich Ring]

NLS doesn't allow books to be read on any personal computer, be they Mac or PC.
There are players available, these are small portable expensive devices that 
will allow you to play music, books from RFB&D, and books from Audible as well 
as Bookshare.org.   And, of course, books from NLS.
They ar:Victor Reader Stream from HumanWare, $359,
Booksense from Hims (distributed in US by GWMicro) $359,
PlexTalk Pocket, I believe it is sold by IRTI $349,
And the newest player, Bookport Plus from APH. $299.
The Bookport Plus and the Plextalk Pocket are exactly the same hardware wise, 
but APH has tweeked the firmware and created a transfer software tool.
All of these devices require HCSD or SD cards for storage.
Currently the limit for storage is 32 Gigs.


  - Original Message - 
  From: Blake Sinnett 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:42 PM
  Subject: RE: nls book readers


  Hi,
   
  As far as the Mac is concerned, there are none that I know of right now.
   
  HTH,
  Blake
   
  > From: maxwelli...@aol.com
  > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  > Subject: nls book readers
  > Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:46:14 -0500
  > 
  > Hello list; After reading the posts on here about nls players, it got 
  > me to take action and visit the nls site to sign up for the bard 
  > program. I wasn't surprised to find out there is a waiting list for 
  > the new players, but i was surprised that its a year long unless you 
  > are a veterin. so, what are the major book readers out there, and how 
  > do they rank? To help with this discussion, I'm not looking for it to 
  > do everything just read the books and magazines. I'm also not looking 
  > to spend a lot of money if I don't have to. I'll appreciate any 
  > suggestions or opinions. Thanks and take care, Max 
  > 
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Re: Adium weirdness!

[Jim Gatteys]

That's what I thought at first but they are all logged in and connected.
Jim
-
Find me on facebook or:
Skype: jimintexas
Yahoo or Aim/Ichat: jgatteys
Msn: jgatt...@gmail.com

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Re: nls book readers

[Carolyn]

Maxwell:
I highly recommend the humanware Victor Stream.  You may be able to get a 
better price going through WWW.ADAPTIVEINFORMATION.ORG.  Excellent customer 
service and decent deals.

Good luck in your search.  Everyone I know who has one of these loves it and is 
constantly reading.
Carolyn Haas


  - Original Message - 
  From: Maxwell Ivey Jr. 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 11:46 AM
  Subject: nls book readers


  Hello list;  After reading the posts on here about nls players, it got  
  me to take action and visit the nls site to sign up for the bard  
  program.  I wasn't surprised to find out there is a waiting list for  
  the new players, but i was surprised that its a year long unless you  
  are a veterin.  so, what are the major book readers out there, and how  
  do they rank?  To help with this discussion, I'm not looking for it to  
  do everything just read the books and magazines.  I'm also not looking  
  to spend a lot of money if I don't have to.  I'll appreciate any  
  suggestions or opinions.  Thanks and take care, Max 

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Re: Need Twitter client suggestions

[Sarah Alawami]

Oh I have not usee the filtering function yet. dunno how but I also love this 
piece of software as well. it is like the qwitter for the mac. lol.
On Mar 15, 2010, at 1:03 PM, Mark BurningHawk Baxter wrote:

> I use Syrinx, and have also used Twitterific, but like Syrynx better because 
> of its filtering ability.
> 
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Re: safari busy, busy, busy

[Sarah Alawami]

cool deal.

good luck without hat.  it is like it freezes or something. i've tried  a shut 
down and start up of vo but to no avail.
On Mar 15, 2010, at 8:07 AM, Carolyn wrote:

> Kim:
> I did write to accessibility at apple to see if they have any thoughts on the 
> repetition issue.  I'll post their response if I get one.
>  
> Carolyn
> - Original Message -
> From: Kimberly thurman
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 9:12 PM
> Subject: Re: safari busy, busy, busy
> 
> I must say that I had trouble with the busy thing yesterday when I set up 
> Genius in ITunes.  I suppose this must be a very memory-intensive process, as 
> it bogged my computer down for several minutes and I got the busy message 
> intermittently during this whole time.  
> On Mar 14, 2010, at 6:36 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> 
> > it does except for
> > 1. when safary decides to hickup and
> > 
> > 2, you try and mark 4000 messages as read at once. don't do that. lol.
> > On Mar 14, 2010, at 3:02 PM, Rich Ring wrote:
> > 
> >> But I think ZI'd have to have a Mac Book Pro in order to have 8 gigs of 
> >> ram.
> >> Half the reason I wanted to get into the Mac world was that OSX is 
> >> supposed 
> >> to use memory  more efficiently.
> >> - Original Message - 
> >> From: "Bryan Smart" 
> >> To: 
> >> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 2:17 PM
> >> Subject: RE: safari busy, busy, busy
> >> 
> >> 
> >> That's true as long as you're only running desktop apps.
> >> 
> >> If you're using virtual machines, for example, 8GB will be better. A 
> >> Windows 
> >> 7 VM needs 3GB of memory to run with maximum performance, for example, 
> >> and, 
> >> with 4GB, that wouldn't leave you much for OSX. You can always run your 
> >> virtual machines with less memory, and start fewer apps in them, but 
> >> you'll 
> >> hurt performance.
> >> 
> >> 8GB is only about $350 right now in the US. It isn't that serious of a 
> >> purchase if you do serious computing.
> >> 
> >> Bryan
> >> 
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Howell
> >> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:57 PM
> >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >> Subject: Re: safari busy, busy, busy
> >> 
> >> Four gigs is more than sufficient and any additional benefits from 
> >> installing more ram will not justify the expense of the ram.
> >> I have four gigs and I run a lot of stuff at once with no noticeable hit 
> >> on 
> >> performance.
> >> 
> >> On Mar 13, 2010, at 6:45 PM, Kimberly thurman wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Happens to me a lot and I'm using a 13 inch Macbook Pro.  It only has
> >>> 2 
> >>> gigs of ram and I'm thinking that is causing some of my problems.  I get 
> >>> the busy stuff when I have multiple aps open.
> >>> 
> >>> This leads me to a question of my own.  I see  that it is possible to 
> >>> upgrade ram.  My husband could do this for me, but how much ram is 
> >>> enough? 
> >>> I read that I could put up to 8 gigs of ram in this thing.  Is that over 
> >>> kill?  Would 4 gigs be enough?
> >>> 
> >>> Thanks in advance.
> >>> 
> >>> Kim
> >>> On Mar 13, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:
> >>> 
>  I bet you have a Mac Mini without a monitor.
>  
>  Bryan
>  
>  -Original Message-
>  From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>  [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn
>  Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 3:31 PM
>  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>  Subject: safari busy, busy, busy
>  
>  Hi:
>  I suppose this has already come up on list, but I'm wondering if others 
>  are frustrated by VO continuously getting stuck on and repeating "busy," 
>  Is there a way to stop that from happening?  And Would this be 
>  considered 
>  a bug to report to Apple.  Sorry if this is old to some of you, but it's 
>  new to me as I use the Mac more.
>  TIA
>  
>  Carolyn :)ch
>  
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Re: voice over reset itself yesterday. How?

[Sarah Alawami]

No I have not. I bought this macbook pro last mnth and have not upgraded 
anything.

Take care.
On Mar 15, 2010, at 8:29 AM, Søren Jensen wrote:

> Hi.
> 
> I have a Macbook and I have never had this issue. However, one of my friends 
> have an Imac, and he got some more ram in his machine then he bought it. He 
> chose some cheeper ram which wasn't recommended by Apple. His Voiceover does 
> reset his settings very often. If he reset his ram, it stops for a while, and 
> a few weeks later, it starts again.
> Have all of you who have this issue upgraded your ram? Best regards
> Søren Jensen
> Mail & MSN:
> s...@coolfortheblind.dk
> Website:
> http://www.coolfortheblind.dk/
> 
> Den Mar 14, 2010 kl. 11:02 PM skrev Esther:
> 
>> Hi Sarah,
>> 
>> This sounds like the same problem that Daniel reported last month, and that 
>> Carlene may have seen a bit earlier.  Do you have a copy of you old 
>> VoiceOver preference files?  We're not sure why this is happening in these 
>> instances, but either as a source or result of the problem you .plist files 
>> are getting overwritten or the system thinks they are corrupted and is 
>> generating new ones.  (Corrupted preference files are the second most common 
>> general problem, but way down in frequency after having to repair 
>> permissions with Disk Utility).  I generally save copies of the most 
>> frequently used plist files somewhere easily accessed on my home directory.  
>> The ones you are likely to want for VoiceOver are:
>> 
>> com.apple.universalaccess.plist
>> com.apple.VoiceOver.plist
>> com.apple.VoiceOver.pronunciations.plist
>> Here's the start of Daniel's thread on VoiceOver resetting itself:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries%40googlegroups.com/msg16492.html
>> Use Control-N to read down through the thread.  You can also check my post 
>> to Carlene about how to navigate to the Preferences folder.  That post lists 
>> even more VoiceOver and speech-related plist files:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries%40googlegroups.com/msg13973.html
>> If you have any of the old plist files around from a backup, just copy them 
>> into the Library/Preferences folder under your home directory and they 
>> should be used instead.
>> HTH
>> Cheers,
>> Esther
>> 
>> 
>> Sarah Alawami wrote:
>> 
>>> sorry to the cross posting.
>>> 
>>> Hello to all. Voice over reset itself yesterday and i can't figure out how. 
>>> I am still trying get it not to say now in window or leaving tool bar or 
>>> table or what ever and application when I focus something. I'v checked the 
>>> settings in the vo control panel but I can't find anything that would 
>>> change this.
>>> 
>>> any help would be good as I'm getting frustrated, fast.
>>> 
>>> Take care.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sarah Alawami
>>> marri...@gmail.com
>>> msn: chell...@hotmail.com
>>> website: http://music.marrie.org
>>> twitter: http://twitter.com/marrie1
>>> podcast: http://marrie.podbean.com/feeds
>>> 
>> 
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Re: Copying links from the SendSpace Wizard

[Sarah Alawami]

actually vo shift m does not work. I've tried it both before and after I've 
interacted with the table.
On Mar 14, 2010, at 6:39 PM, James & Nash wrote:

> Thanks, I'll try this.
> 
> TC
> James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny
> On 15 Mar 2010, at 01:12, mani wrote:
> 
>> Hello James:
>> Once you go to the desired link, you could use VO-Shift-M to pop up
>> the short cut menu and then the VO-spacebar on the 'Copy Link' menu
>> item.
>> Thanks,
>> mani
>> 
>> On Mar 14, 7:56 pm, "James & Nash" 
>> wrote:
>>> Thanks Nic,
>>> 
>>> TC
>>> James Lyn, Nash & Twinny
>>> On 14 Mar 2010, at 21:49, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 Hi,
>>> 
 You can do it like this.
>>> 
 1. Go to the item in the table with the VO-commands.
 2. Hold down COntrol and double-click the mouse physically.
 3. A menu will pop up.
>>> 
 When you find the Copy Link location command, it shows the shortcut as 
 being Command-L. And it works.
>>> 
 Regards,
 Nic
 Skype: Kvalme
 MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
 AIM: cincinster
 yahoo Messenger: cin368
 Facebook Profile
 My Twitter
>>> 
 On Mar 14, 2010, at 6:47 PM, James & Nash wrote:
>>> 
> Hi everyone,
>>> 
> Does anyone know how to copy a link for a file's location using the 
> SendSpace Wizard? On Windows, this is very easy, but I can't quite figure 
> it out on the Mac version of the SS Wizard. Sometimes, I forget to put 
> the links into my E-Mails and I would like to be able to use the Wizard 
> to find the link instead of having to re-upload the file or use the SS 
> site.
>>> 
> Thanks for any help
>>> 
> TC
> James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny
>>> 
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Re: nls book readers

[May McDonald]

What do you mean there's no NLS readers for the Mac?
On 2010-03-15, at 1:42 PM, Blake Sinnett wrote:

> Hi,
>  
> As far as the Mac is concerned, there are none that I know of right now.
>  
> HTH,
> Blake
>  
> > From: maxwelli...@aol.com
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: nls book readers
> > Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:46:14 -0500
> > 
> > Hello list; After reading the posts on here about nls players, it got 
> > me to take action and visit the nls site to sign up for the bard 
> > program. I wasn't surprised to find out there is a waiting list for 
> > the new players, but i was surprised that its a year long unless you 
> > are a veterin. so, what are the major book readers out there, and how 
> > do they rank? To help with this discussion, I'm not looking for it to 
> > do everything just read the books and magazines. I'm also not looking 
> > to spend a lot of money if I don't have to. I'll appreciate any 
> > suggestions or opinions. Thanks and take care, Max 
> > 
> > -- 
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Re: nls book readers

[Rich Ring]

NLS does not allow their books to be read using a computer no matter what kind 
it is, I don't explaine it, I just report it.  They are very concerned about 
copyright violations, and they don't want people to use their material who are 
not eligible to do so.
  - Original Message - 
  From: May McDonald 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:00 PM
  Subject: Re: nls book readers


  What do you mean there's no NLS readers for the Mac?

  On 2010-03-15, at 1:42 PM, Blake Sinnett wrote:


Hi,
 
As far as the Mac is concerned, there are none that I know of right now.
 
HTH,
Blake
 
> From: maxwelli...@aol.com
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: nls book readers
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:46:14 -0500
> 
> Hello list; After reading the posts on here about nls players, it got 
> me to take action and visit the nls site to sign up for the bard 
> program. I wasn't surprised to find out there is a waiting list for 
> the new players, but i was surprised that its a year long unless you 
> are a veterin. so, what are the major book readers out there, and how 
> do they rank? To help with this discussion, I'm not looking for it to 
> do everything just read the books and magazines. I'm also not looking 
> to spend a lot of money if I don't have to. I'll appreciate any 
> suggestions or opinions. Thanks and take care, Max 
> 
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How easy would it be for a computer beginner to learn to use voiceover?

[bilgerat]

I'm not blind myself but have a blind friend. She's in her fifties and
has little experience of computers. She was sold a Mercury system  by
RNIB a couple of years back but can't get to grips with it. Nor can I.
the system seems unstable and support is extremely limited. There is
also no tuition available at all except audio discs which are
seriously deficient in various respects.

So as a macbook user myself I wonder whether that might be a suitable
alternative for her. Basically she wants a computer for using the
internet, for such everyday things as reading a paper, ordering
groceries online, and using the BBC's I-player. But I'm really
concerned that it might be too difficult to learn. There doesn't seem
to be anyone at Apple UK who is actually experienced at using
voiceover. I found one guy at Apple who gives one-to-one tuition to a
blind user, but he told me they have given up on trying to use it to
navigate web pages because it's just too complex!

So I would be really grateful for advice on this - how difficult is it
for a computer beginner to learn to use; what kind of support if any
is available, any any other things that need thinking about.

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Re: How easy would it be for a computer beginner to learn to use voiceover?

[E.J. Zufelt]

Good evening,

I would say that it is likely easier for someone to learn to use an Apple with 
the VoiceOver screen-reader if they have never used a Windows screen-reader 
before, than if they had.  That being said, I personally find the JAWS 
screen-reader for Windows a little more intuitive than VoiceOver.  I have, 
however, been using JAWS for Windows for 5 years and VoiceOver for only one 
year.

I think that learning either VoiceOver for Apple or JAWS for Windows are quite 
a reasonably accomplishable task for someone who is willing to put in the time 
and energy to learn.

HTH,
Everett Zufelt
http://zufelt.ca

Follow me on Twitter
http://twitter.com/ezufelt

View my LinkedIn Profile
http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt



On 2010-03-15, at 8:47 PM, bilgerat wrote:

> I'm not blind myself but have a blind friend. She's in her fifties and
> has little experience of computers. She was sold a Mercury system  by
> RNIB a couple of years back but can't get to grips with it. Nor can I.
> the system seems unstable and support is extremely limited. There is
> also no tuition available at all except audio discs which are
> seriously deficient in various respects.
> 
> So as a macbook user myself I wonder whether that might be a suitable
> alternative for her. Basically she wants a computer for using the
> internet, for such everyday things as reading a paper, ordering
> groceries online, and using the BBC's I-player. But I'm really
> concerned that it might be too difficult to learn. There doesn't seem
> to be anyone at Apple UK who is actually experienced at using
> voiceover. I found one guy at Apple who gives one-to-one tuition to a
> blind user, but he told me they have given up on trying to use it to
> navigate web pages because it's just too complex!
> 
> So I would be really grateful for advice on this - how difficult is it
> for a computer beginner to learn to use; what kind of support if any
> is available, any any other things that need thinking about.
> 
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Re: weird announcement all the time

[Jonathan C. Cohn]

There is a verbosity setting for text attributes.  You can get access either 
via the VO-V rotor, or the Verbosity area of the Voice Over utility. VO-F8 

Jon

On Mar 15, 2010, at 12:31 PM, Scott Ballard-RidleyScott Ridley wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> i have a bit of a strange problem. i seem to keep getting a summary of
> the features of text. the announcement tells me the text style,
> colour, size etc. i don't know how i turned this on but if someone
> could help me then it would diffuse a lot of annoyance.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Scott
> 
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Re: How easy would it be for a computer beginner to learn to use voiceover?

[mani]

Hello:
I have been developing software for 20+ years and lately, because of
my declining vision, have been forced to start using a screen reader.
Just about 2 years ago, I fell in love with the Mac, and hence decided
to start learning VoiceOver.  I made the mistake of starting with the
'Getting Started' manual(Snow Leopard version) because it just proved
to be a 'commands' manual and was quite intimidating( I think it
should be called 'Getting Frustrated' instead :) ).  I looked around
for other VoiceOver resources and finally came across Mike Arrigo's
podcasts which you can find in www.blindcooltech.com (this site also
has those links but I think some of them are broken)  .  He makes
VoiceOver appear so easy and intuitive.  I recommend that your friend
start with his first podcast (around 05/2008) and move up to this
other podcasts in chronological order.  I am so glad I found them.
I hope this helps.  Good luck to your friend.

Thanks,
mani

On Mar 15, 8:55 pm, "E.J. Zufelt"  wrote:
> Good evening,
>
> I would say that it is likely easier for someone to learn to use an Apple 
> with the VoiceOver screen-reader if they have never used a Windows 
> screen-reader before, than if they had.  That being said, I personally find 
> the JAWS screen-reader for Windows a little more intuitive than VoiceOver.  I 
> have, however, been using JAWS for Windows for 5 years and VoiceOver for only 
> one year.
>
> I think that learning either VoiceOver for Apple or JAWS for Windows are 
> quite a reasonably accomplishable task for someone who is willing to put in 
> the time and energy to learn.
>
> HTH,
> Everett Zufelthttp://zufelt.ca
>
> Follow me on Twitterhttp://twitter.com/ezufelt
>
> View my LinkedIn Profilehttp://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
>
> On 2010-03-15, at 8:47 PM, bilgerat wrote:
>
>
>
> > I'm not blind myself but have a blind friend. She's in her fifties and
> > has little experience of computers. She was sold a Mercury system  by
> > RNIB a couple of years back but can't get to grips with it. Nor can I.
> > the system seems unstable and support is extremely limited. There is
> > also no tuition available at all except audio discs which are
> > seriously deficient in various respects.
>
> > So as a macbook user myself I wonder whether that might be a suitable
> > alternative for her. Basically she wants a computer for using the
> > internet, for such everyday things as reading a paper, ordering
> > groceries online, and using the BBC's I-player. But I'm really
> > concerned that it might be too difficult to learn. There doesn't seem
> > to be anyone at Apple UK who is actually experienced at using
> > voiceover. I found one guy at Apple who gives one-to-one tuition to a
> > blind user, but he told me they have given up on trying to use it to
> > navigate web pages because it's just too complex!
>
> > So I would be really grateful for advice on this - how difficult is it
> > for a computer beginner to learn to use; what kind of support if any
> > is available, any any other things that need thinking about.
>
> > --
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> > "MacVisionaries" group.
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Re: using facebook with safari

[Jonathan C. Cohn]

The problem with facebook  is that it expects a lot of interaction with the 
mouse.  I believe that when you point the mouse at a picture some more details 
about hat person appear. (This is called a mouse over)  So when the mouse is 
tracking the voice over cursor Facebook keeps changing what is on the webpage.  
So if you turn off cursor tracking for FB or at least mouse follows voice over 
then it will work significalntly better.  Please excuse my spelling I am 
running light on sleep.  I tried to test FB and give more detailed directions 
on putting up status items when using the full site, but I Have spent the last 
our instead chatting with a friend from high school.

Jon

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Re: using facebook with safari

[Jim Gatteys]

Hi Jon!
If you ever work out how to post status from the main site I'd love to know.  
I've tried everything I know.  Its definitely from the lite or mobiel site and 
that's what I do.  Also for adium users you can post statuses through there and 
also at ping.fm you can post a status as well.
Jim

On Mar 15, 2010, at 10:20 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn wrote:

> The problem with facebook  is that it expects a lot of interaction with the 
> mouse.  I believe that when you point the mouse at a picture some more 
> details about hat person appear. (This is called a mouse over)  So when the 
> mouse is tracking the voice over cursor Facebook keeps changing what is on 
> the webpage.  So if you turn off cursor tracking for FB or at least mouse 
> follows voice over then it will work significalntly better.  Please excuse my 
> spelling I am running light on sleep.  I tried to test FB and give more 
> detailed directions on putting up status items when using the full site, but 
> I Have spent the last our instead chatting with a friend from high school.
> 
> Jon
> 
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Programming for the mac

[Jim Gatteys]

Hi.
I know recently there has been some discussion about programming for the mac 
and there are links to books and things.  I wonder if there are any interactive 
discussion groups anywhere, for example, ventrilo groups where one could go to 
learn basic concepts and talk to people who are programmers.  I've never had 
formal programming training but would love to learn and think that talking to 
people in addition to reading books would be really helpful to me.  I'd be 
willing to chat on skype or any groups if anybody has info.  And if there's not 
one, I'd be willing to do a ventrilo server where we could go to talk about 
programming.
Let me know if anybody knows of such a place.
Jim

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Re: How easy would it be for a computer beginner to learn to use voiceover?

[Sarah Alawami]

I think it might be doable. if she is good at graspig patterns and picturing 
thing s in her head she will be find with voice over. that's my opinion and I 
might be wron gthough.
On Mar 15, 2010, at 5:47 PM, bilgerat wrote:

> I'm not blind myself but have a blind friend. She's in her fifties and
> has little experience of computers. She was sold a Mercury system  by
> RNIB a couple of years back but can't get to grips with it. Nor can I.
> the system seems unstable and support is extremely limited. There is
> also no tuition available at all except audio discs which are
> seriously deficient in various respects.
> 
> So as a macbook user myself I wonder whether that might be a suitable
> alternative for her. Basically she wants a computer for using the
> internet, for such everyday things as reading a paper, ordering
> groceries online, and using the BBC's I-player. But I'm really
> concerned that it might be too difficult to learn. There doesn't seem
> to be anyone at Apple UK who is actually experienced at using
> voiceover. I found one guy at Apple who gives one-to-one tuition to a
> blind user, but he told me they have given up on trying to use it to
> navigate web pages because it's just too complex!
> 
> So I would be really grateful for advice on this - how difficult is it
> for a computer beginner to learn to use; what kind of support if any
> is available, any any other things that need thinking about.
> 
> -- 
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> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> 

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Just for fun!

[Jim Gatteys]

Hi all!
With all the facebook discussion I thought it might be interesting to have a 
group for voiceover users.  I just created one for anyone who is interested in 
joining.  It is called "Apple VoiceOver Users" and its closed which means that 
membership has to be approved. I don't even know if there is interest but if 
so, please join.  I am going to post a link directly to it--or I believe its 
the link to the group.  IF not, you can search for it on facebook or email me.  
It just seemed like yet another spot to discuss mac and voiceover related 
issues in a more real-time environment.
Jim
The link is:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=363474888478&ref=ss
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RE: using facebook with safari

[Simon Fogarty]

 I use bboth the lyte and the m.facebook access and I can't say I've seen
the apps on it from within windows / IE or firefox either, so I don't see
how it can be something apple have to work on.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt
Sent: Tuesday, 16 March 2010 1:49 a.m.
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: using facebook with safari

On 2010-03-15, at 8:49 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> The problem with this is that the lite site, like the mobile site, won't
let you interface with the apps.  Personally, I really think this is
something Apple needs to work on.

* I think that if Facebook followed web standards, including WCAG 2.0, then
the site would work fine. I don't think that there's anything that Apple
needs to work on, at least not until Facebook commits to web standards.

Everett


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Re: weird announcement all the time

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Scott,

To adjust the way text attributes are handled, press VO-V, then use the right 
arrow key until you hear "Text Attributes". The up and down arrows allow you to 
select the setting. Press Escape when you're done.

Cheers,

Anne

On Mar 15, 2010, at 5:31 PM, Scott Ballard-RidleyScott Ridley wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> i have a bit of a strange problem. i seem to keep getting a summary of
> the features of text. the announcement tells me the text style,
> colour, size etc. i don't know how i turned this on but if someone
> could help me then it would diffuse a lot of annoyance.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Scott
> 
> -- 
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> 

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RE: Programming for the mac

[Bryan Smart]

The mv-dev Google group is the only place where blind Mac programmers are 
talking right now. There aren't very many at the moment, but that's been 
because, until recently, designing the graphical user interface of an app by a 
blind programmer was between difficult and nearly impossible. We have a new 
tool called Renaissance that has solved that problem.

Those of us that are blazing this trail are already experienced programmers 
from other platforms. Once a bit more ground work has been laid, we plan to 
make some introductory tutorials that explain how a blind person can start 
programming for the Mac. A blind person only has to know some specific 
differences that are of concern when programming while blind. After that, they 
can use the regular resources that are available to any sighted programmer.

I want lots of blind people to program for the Mac. My hope is that will bring 
us lots more accessible software.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Jim Gatteys
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 11:41 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Programming for the mac

Hi.
I know recently there has been some discussion about programming for the mac 
and there are links to books and things.  I wonder if there are any interactive 
discussion groups anywhere, for example, ventrilo groups where one could go to 
learn basic concepts and talk to people who are programmers.  I've never had 
formal programming training but would love to learn and think that talking to 
people in addition to reading books would be really helpful to me.  I'd be 
willing to chat on skype or any groups if anybody has info.  And if there's not 
one, I'd be willing to do a ventrilo server where we could go to talk about 
programming.
Let me know if anybody knows of such a place.
Jim

-
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Skype: jimintexas
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