Re: "Generative music" and "Algorithmic composition"

[David Kastrup]

Philip Rhoades  writes:

> David,
>>
>>> - I probably should have posted the code, then it would have been
>>> clear straight away - but it wasn't a copy and paste problem.
>>
>> So why then did you _first_ state that Paul's version did not work,
>> including a quote of _Paul's_ version rather than the LSR?
>>
>> _That's_ when I stated I considered this likely a copy&paste error.
>> And
>> it apparently was.  Either you did not properly copy&paste Paul's
>> version when trying it out, or you did not properly copy&paste the
>> resulting error message when trying (without telling anybody) the LSR
>> version.
>
>
> This is getting silly - I will explain what happened:
>
> - I had previously run your new snippet quite satisfactorily
>
> - I had previously run Paul's changed version quite satisfactorily
>
> - I had forgotten about the convert-ly thing
>
> - I wasn't going to bother about the old version in the LSR when Paul
> mentioned it, but just out of interest, I thought I would give it go - 
> it failed with the error - I don't like things not working so I
> persisted
>
> - The quick inspection showed the old version with a "#" and the new
> versions with "$" - so I changed it and tried again - still the same
> error
>
> - Probably hastily, I reported the error

And you reported it as an error in Paul's version even though you
previously _did_ run Paul's version successfully.  Your "quick
inspection" obviously _failed_ to turn up _all_ of the differences
between Paul's version and the LSR so you tested something different.
That's what one calls a "copy and paste" error: failure to actually test
the claimed code by testing something different through oversight.

> - You said it was probably a cut and paste problem - I knew it wasn't
> but I tried different methods of getting the code but still got the
> error
>
> - Still missing the real issue (and probably annoyed that you
> suggested it was a newbie "who doesn't know how to cut an paste"
> problem) I replied (too hastily again) that it wasn't a cut and paste
> problem
>
> - You said it must be some problem so I did the diffs - which finally
> showed up the problem with the missing entire line and it's associated
> bracket

Copy and paste error.  The failure to actually test what was quoted is
called "copy and paste error".  Here is what you wrote in full:

From: Philip Rhoades 
Subject: Re: "Generative music" and "Algorithmic composition"
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 17:58:28 +1100 (8 hours, 56 minutes, 8 seconds ago)
Reply-To: p...@pricom.com.au

David,


On 2014-01-16 07:43, David Kastrup wrote:
> Paul Morris  writes:
>
>> SoundsFromSound wrote
>>> Paul, that is a great little bit of code! Thank you for sharing
>>> that...I'm
>>> going to play around with it later today. :)
>>
>> Glad you like it, but David Kastrup gets the credit for it:
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2014-01/msg00638.html
>>
>> I just changed it from a set of 12 chromatic notes to those in C
>> major and
>> added \transpose.  Maybe it's worth adding it to the
>> LSR... hmmm... looks
>> like there's already a random note generator there:
>> http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=274
>>
>> It generates notes in the current key from (middle) c' up to g''
>> Here it is after running convert-ly (from 2.14.0 to 2.18.0):
>>
>> \version "2.18.0"
>> \score {
>>   {
>> $(let ((random-state (seed->random-state (current-time
>>(make-sequential-music
>> (map (lambda (x)
>>(let ((idx (random 12 random-state)))
>
>>  (make-event-chord
>>   (list
>
> You can forego the above two lines (of course removing the respective
> closing parens later on) nowadays.
>
>>(make-music 'NoteEvent
>>  'duration (ly:make-duration 2 0 1/1)
>>  'pitch (ly:make-pitch
>>  (quotient idx 7)
>>  (remainder idx 7)
>>  0))
>>   (make-list 24
>
> Ok, make-list is a tad-bit more basic and efficient than the iota I
> employed.


I get a GUILE error on line 5

  $(let

anyway . . I tried changing it to:

  $@(let

but that didn't work either (obviously I don't know what I'm doing . .)

Regards,

Phil.


You did not, I repeat _not_ mention in any way that you used any code
other than that which was quoted here (actually stating "Here it is
after running convert-ly (from 2.14.0 to 2.18.0):" even though it might
have appeared to be gobbledygook to you at that time).

You did not mention what code you used and where this error message was
from.  It was absolutely impossible to guess that you were testing
anything other than what you quoted.

Re: Error in documentation

[Trevor Daniels]

This has been fixed already.

Trevor

Phil Holmes wrote Thursday, January 16, 2014 3:25 PM


> Copying to -bugs for an issue.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Peter Crighton 
  To: LilyPond Mailing List 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 10:27 PM
  Subject: Error in documentation


  Hello all,
  in the documentation about percussion notation it is said that you need to 
include the Parenthesis_engraver in order to use \parenthesize – 
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-percussion.html#ghost-notes
 This is not true, you do not have to include anything. Also, you do not have 
to add chord brackets.
  Maybe this could be updated?

  --
  Peter Crighton | Musician & Music Engraver based in Mainz/Wiesbaden, Germany
  http://www.petercrighton.de


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Re: Updating Snippets in the LSR when versions are updated

[David Kastrup]

Philip Rhoades  writes:

> People,
>
> After being bitten (unnecessarily) by old code in the LSR and having a
> continuing argument with David about how it came about - I have to ask
> - 
> is there any reason why all the snippets in the LSR can't be
> automatically updated when a new version is introduced?

We don't have control over the users' computers, so we can't upgrade
their LilyPond version ourselves.

The current Debian stable is at version 2.14.2:
http://packages.debian.org/source/wheezy/lilypond>

> Surely this would not be hard to do?

It isn't.  That's what convert-ly is available for.

> If the Guile syntax is changing so often, what is the point of keeping
> old code in the LSR?

You mean: LilyPond syntax.  The point is supporting all current users of
LilyPond that don't have outdated systems.  The current Debian stable
uses 2.14.

> It is fair enough to tell people that they have to convert THEIR OWN
> code but the people who run the LSR, repo should be responsible for
> keeping that up to date . .

The LSR does not differentiate between versions, so it has to provide
stuff working for the oldest stable legitimately in use.

That's arguably a deficiency.  I am sure that your offers to extend the
LSR code accordingly will be appreciated by the person running the LSR.

> If there is an argument for keeping a snippet in it's original form
> because of historical significance or something - an archive could be
> kept of it.
>
> Just my 2c . .

That will not buy a lot of code...

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Updating Snippets in the LSR when versions are updated

[Phil Holmes]

- Original Message - 
From: "Philip Rhoades" 

To: "Lilypond User" 
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 3:47 PM
Subject: Updating Snippets in the LSR when versions are updated



People,

After being bitten (unnecessarily) by old code in the LSR and having a 
continuing argument with David about how it came about - I have to ask - 
is there any reason why all the snippets in the LSR can't be automatically 
updated when a new version is introduced?  Surely this would not be hard 
to do?  If the Guile syntax is changing so often, what is the point of 
keeping old code in the LSR?  It is fair enough to tell people that they 
have to convert THEIR OWN code but the people who run the LSR, repo should 
be responsible for keeping that up to date . .


If there is an argument for keeping a snippet in it's original form 
because of historical significance or something - an archive could be kept 
of it.


Just my 2c . .

Regards,

Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades



We would need to be able to contact the maintainer of the LSR and get him to 
update it.  At present, we can't :-(


--
Phil Holmes 



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Re: "Generative music" and "Algorithmic composition"

[Paul Morris]

Philip Rhoades wrote
> maybe we (and by "we" I mean "you" - at least initially) could enhance 
> this little bit of code to do what my Ruby script was doing?

Hi Phil, Unfortunately I can't afford to take this on.  Sounds like it might
be a nice challenge for someone learning Scheme though.  :-)

Cheers,
-Paul



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Re: "Generative music" and "Algorithmic composition"

[Paul Morris]

David Kastrup wrote
>>  (make-event-chord
>>   (list
> 
> You can forego the above two lines (of course removing the respective
> closing parens later on) nowadays.

Hi David, Thanks for that tip.  I'll put it on my list to add this revised
2.18 version to the LSR (commented out) so that it will be ready for when
the next LSR update happens.  

Maybe it would be good to add your other code as well in a new snippet since
it can generate the full range of chromatic notes, or really any given set
of notes, or range of notes, in a way that's more easily specified by the
user. 

-Paul



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Re: string concatenation 2.18 vs 2.16

[David Kastrup]

Tom van der Hoeven  writes:

> under 2.16 there were no errors in this
> 
> \version "2.16.2"
> tom = "aap " + "noot"
> \book {
>\header { title = \tom }
>\relative {a  b c}
> }
> 
> under 2.18 the expression tom = "aap " + "noot" seems not to be
> allowed

Quite so.  It was an undocumented feature (consequently not being used
almost anywhere) leading to problems elsewhere in the parser.  For
example,

tom = "aap " + "noot"
\tom

lead to an error message because tom was undefined at the point it was
queried since LilyPond could not finish the assignment without checking
whether "noot" was followed by another + here.

Use

tom = #(string-append "aap " "noot")

or

tom = \markup { "aap" "noot" }

or

tom = \markup \concat { "aap " "noot" }

depending on whether you want to concatenate strings programmatically or
markups.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: multi-column markup function/macro?

[Alex Loomis]

With the split files there are still a ton of warnings, but it creates and
displays the pdf.


On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 2:55 AM, Jan-Peter Voigt  wrote:

> Hi Alex,
>
> OK ... first note, I use this on my machine with Ubuntu 12.04 having
> texlive(2012)-full installed and it does compile - but frescobaldi
> doesn't recognize the produced PDF (it is not displayed).
>
> I do also get a lot of Warnings from xelatex and from lilypond. The
> TeX-warnings are a matter of the tex source, wich is produced inside the
> markup-list-command, and lilypond complains about the EPS-files, which
> are a little bit to large.
> The Fontconfig warning might have to do with PATH settings. I included
>
> export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=\"\"
>
> before the command is executed, so that lilyponds libraries do not
> interfere with the ones loaded by xelatex.
>
> So my question would be: Did the compilation of this file produce a PDF,
> which is simply not "found" by frescobaldi? Or did it actually fail?
>
> The idea is, that guile scheme can run commands with
>
> (system "cmd")
>
> If that command produces an EPS file, it can be included as an
> eps-stencil (line 177). If it produces a PDF file, that can be split
> into one EPS per page with "pdftops -eps" (lines 183-193).
> The tex-source is wrapped and written to a file
> "xelatex-.tex" in lines 160-175.
> Here it is split into two files, so that the example does show up in
> frescobaldi. I removed the deletion of the xelatex-* working files, so
> you can start xelatex without lilypond and see, if there are errors on
> the shell.
>
> Cheers, Jan-Peter
>
>
> Am 16.01.2014 01:30, schrieb Alex Loomis:
> > I got no output and a page full of fontconfig warnings when I ran it. I
> > left out all but the first since there were about 100 and they're all
> > nearly identical.
> >
> > Starting lilypond 2.19.0 [xelatex-command-list.ly
> > ]...
> >
> > Processing `/tmp/xelatex-command-list.ly  >'
> >
> > Parsing...
> >
> > This is XeTeX, Version 3.1415926-2.4-0.9998 (TeX Live 2012/Debian)
> >
> > restricted \write18 enabled.
> >
> > entering extended mode
> >
> > Fontconfig warning:
> >
> "/usr/local/lilypond/usr/bin/../etc/fonts/conf.d/30-metric-aliases.conf",
> line
> > 84: Having multiple  in  isn't supported and may not
> > works as expected
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Jan-Peter Voigt  > > wrote:
> >
> > Hi Kieren,
> >
> > I have extracted the latex-markup commands. At the end of the file
> is a
> > little example.
> > There are three ways to produce the latex source:
> > 1. use a markup-list, which is converted with markup->tex: \xelatex
> > { ... }
> > 2. include a file with tex-content: \xelatexInclude #""
> > 3. use a string, probably read from a multiline-comment:
> \xelatexInclude
> > #text-variable
> >
> > The example only uses the third method, because the first seemed to
> have
> > a bug and the second would need an extra file.
> > The latex code is included between \begin/\end{document}, so that the
> > markup command can calculate the dimensions for the resulting pdf.
> The
> > pdf is then split into eps files for each page, which are then
> included
> > in the markup-list.
> >
> > Best, Jan-Peter
> >
> > On 11.01.2014 21:19, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
> > > Hi Jan-Peter,
> > >
> > >> I usually use [xe]latex, to produce the text needed for a preface
> or
> > >> foreword. That way I can use latex input with its own commands -
> > in this
> > >> case: \twocolumn - and use hyphenation.
> > >> It is integrated in https://github.com/jpvoigt/lalily (latex.scm,
> > >> latex-init.scm). If you are interested, I would extract it.
> > > YES YES YES
> > > In other words, yes, I am interested.  =)
> > >
> > >> If you want format a markup-list - this is, what you are asking
> > for - I
> > >> would recommend a markup-list-command. To make the
> > n-column-markup-list
> > >> work correctly, you have to extract the available paper-height. I
> am
> > >> doing it in the mentioned xelatex-include command, but it often
> warns
> > >> about overflows of a few points - I can live with that, because
> the
> > >> overflow is minor, but it seems not to be trivial.
> > >> If you have the printable paper-height, you can build markups per
> > page.
> > > If the [xe]latex doesn’t suit — or maybe even if it does — I’ll
> > try building a “native” function.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Kieren.
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
>
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Re: Experiences from voice handling wanted

[Michael Rivers]

I think you just have to remember to use \oneVoice or \stemNeutral when the
2nd voice isn't playing.

If the 2nd voice is coming and going frequently, you are much better off
using

<<
  { \voiceOne
 Music goes here
  }
  \new Voice {
 { \voiceTwo
Music goes here
 }
  }
>>
\oneVoice

This way, when the voices split in two, the first voice can continue using a
slur it had begun before the voices split. If you use << { } \\ {} >> to
split the voices, you'll get "Cannot terminate slur" errors, and then you
have to start the second voice before you really want to, fill it with
spacer rests and manually change the stemming -- no fun.

There is a really nice post on the Scores of Beauty blog about temporary
polyphonic sections by Urs Liska:
http://lilypondblog.org/2013/07/voice-contexts-in-temporary-polyphonic-sections/



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Re: Experiences from voice handling wanted

[Peter Bjuhr]

Hi Michael,

thanks for your reply!

On 01/16/2014 07:17 PM, Michael Rivers wrote:

I think you just have to remember to use \oneVoice or \stemNeutral when the
2nd voice isn't playing.


\oneVoice is the best choice, isn't it, because it affects more than 
just the stems!?


If the 2nd voice is coming and going frequently, you are much better off
using

<<
   { \voiceOne
  Music goes here
   }
   \new Voice {
  { \voiceTwo
 Music goes here
  }
   }
\oneVoice

This way, when the voices split in two, the first voice can continue using a
slur it had begun before the voices split. If you use << { } \\ {} >> to
split the voices, you'll get "Cannot terminate slur" errors, and then you
have to start the second voice before you really want to, fill it with
spacer rests and manually change the stemming -- no fun.



As mentioned previously what I have to work with in this case is an 
output from musicxml2ly with the voices as separate music variables. It 
could still be an option of course to use the structure you suggest and 
I have done that previously from musicxml2ly outputs. But I still think 
my best option in this case is to use the \partcombine solution, but I'm 
very willing to listen to other suggestion. I know that there are a lot 
of users with much more experience than myself.


Best
Peter

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Josiah Boothby]

On Thu, 16 Jan 2014 15:05:50 +0100
Alexander Kobel  wrote:

> I was about to ask in that direction.  If for a font "ff" leads to 
> collisions, and the ligature is not correct at that point, is it 
> recommended to insert space or to switch the font?  Or, stated 
> differently:  Should I consider it a sign of low quality of a font if 
> consecutive letters collide or touch unpleasantly, even if a ligature 
> exists?

The short answer is yes. Some typefaces are designed to minimize
unwanted ligatures. Zapf's Palatino family comes immediately to mind
(and my eye finds Palatino to harmonize quite nicely with Lilypond's
music fonts), with the solution of an f with a short arm—this was a
specific design choice that Hermann Zapf made, as he was aware of
some of the technological problems facing typography. Some other fonts
are designed with this in mind (e.g., Gentium), but I don't know of any
others that I've used with Lilypond. The alternative is, yes, to adjust
the horizontal spacing to reduce risk of collision or visual cacophony. 

—Josiah

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PDF links to javascript?

[Mike Blackstock]

Is there a way to change the "textedit://uri"  mechanism in PDF
point-and-lick links to point instead to a javascript function in the
webbrowser?

textedit:///path/guitar.ly:42:32:39

would instead be something like:
javascript:parent.handlePdfLinks("path/guitar.ly:42:32:39")

and the above would be executed on a click?

I've been looking around, but I know zilch about PDF documents; the closest
I got was this, which tells me it's do-able (I think)

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5934211/getting-notified-when-the-user-clicks-a-link-in-an-embedded-pdf/5942729#5942729

Cheers,
Mike
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Re: PDF links to javascript?

[Phil Holmes]

Why do you want to do this?  Operating system?

--
Phil Holmes


  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Blackstock 
  To: lilypond-user 
  Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 9:34 PM
  Subject: PDF links to javascript?


  Is there a way to change the "textedit://uri"  mechanism in PDF 
point-and-lick links to point instead to a javascript function in the 
webbrowser?

  textedit:///path/guitar.ly:42:32:39

  would instead be something like:
  javascript:parent.handlePdfLinks("path/guitar.ly:42:32:39")

  and the above would be executed on a click?

  I've been looking around, but I know zilch about PDF documents; the closest
  I got was this, which tells me it's do-able (I think)

  
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5934211/getting-notified-when-the-user-clicks-a-link-in-an-embedded-pdf/5942729#5942729

  Cheers,
  Mike




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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Werner LEMBERG]

> Werner, I hope you agree with my short summaries of your helpful
> explanations?

Yep.


Werner

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Re: PDF links to javascript?

[Mike Blackstock]

Hi Phil!

Re.  Why do you want to do this?

My source code editor is a javascript app that runs in the browser - "Code
Mirror". For compilation, the source code is sent to a server over a
node.js/socket.io websocket; when compilation is complete, server sends
browser a signal and PDF is opened in iframe. I need 'point-and-click'
events to call javascript functions.

Thanks for responding and thanks for any help you can offer!


On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Phil Holmes  wrote:

>  Why do you want to do this?  Operating system?
>
> --
> Phil Holmes
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Mike Blackstock 
> *To:* lilypond-user 
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 16, 2014 9:34 PM
> *Subject:* PDF links to javascript?
>
> Is there a way to change the "textedit://uri"  mechanism in PDF
> point-and-lick links to point instead to a javascript function in the
> webbrowser?
>
> textedit:///path/guitar.ly:42:32:39
>
> would instead be something like:
> javascript:parent.handlePdfLinks("path/guitar.ly:42:32:39")
>
> and the above would be executed on a click?
>
> I've been looking around, but I know zilch about PDF documents; the closest
> I got was this, which tells me it's do-able (I think)
>
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5934211/getting-notified-when-the-user-clicks-a-link-in-an-embedded-pdf/5942729#5942729
>
> Cheers,
> Mike
>
>  --
>
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Re: "Generative music" and "Algorithmic composition"

[Philip Rhoades]

Paul,


On 2014-01-17 03:44, Paul Morris wrote:

Philip Rhoades wrote

maybe we (and by "we" I mean "you" - at least initially) could enhance
this little bit of code to do what my Ruby script was doing?


Hi Phil, Unfortunately I can't afford to take this on.  Sounds like it 
might

be a nice challenge for someone learning Scheme though.  :-)



Yep - when I can make more progress with Scheme, I will give it shot!

Regards,

Phil.
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GPO Box 3411
Sydney NSW  2001
Australia
E-mail:  p...@pricom.com.au

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Re: Updating Snippets in the LSR when versions are updated

[Philip Rhoades]

Phil,


On 2014-01-17 03:05, Phil Holmes wrote:
- Original Message - From: "Philip Rhoades" 


To: "Lilypond User" 
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 3:47 PM
Subject: Updating Snippets in the LSR when versions are updated



People,

After being bitten (unnecessarily) by old code in the LSR and having a 
continuing argument with David about how it came about - I have to ask 
- is there any reason why all the snippets in the LSR can't be 
automatically updated when a new version is introduced?  Surely this 
would not be hard to do?  If the Guile syntax is changing so often, 
what is the point of keeping old code in the LSR?  It is fair enough 
to tell people that they have to convert THEIR OWN code but the people 
who run the LSR, repo should be responsible for keeping that up to 
date . .


If there is an argument for keeping a snippet in it's original form 
because of historical significance or something - an archive could be 
kept of it.


Just my 2c . .

Regards,

Phil.
-- Philip Rhoades



We would need to be able to contact the maintainer of the LSR and get
him to update it.  At present, we can't :-(



I haven't been here long so I don't know what the significance is of 
that reply - shouldn't someone maintaining something as important as the 
LSR be contactable?


Regards,

Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades

GPO Box 3411
Sydney NSW  2001
Australia
E-mail:  p...@pricom.com.au

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Re: Updating Snippets in the LSR when versions are updated

[Philip Rhoades]

David,


On 2014-01-17 03:12, David Kastrup wrote:

Philip Rhoades  writes:


People,

After being bitten (unnecessarily) by old code in the LSR and having a
continuing argument with David about how it came about - I have to ask
-
is there any reason why all the snippets in the LSR can't be
automatically updated when a new version is introduced?


We don't have control over the users' computers, so we can't upgrade
their LilyPond version ourselves.



I understand that (I am a user) but why is the person who administers 
the LSR "a user"?




The current Debian stable is at version 2.14.2:
http://packages.debian.org/source/wheezy/lilypond>


Surely this would not be hard to do?


It isn't.  That's what convert-ly is available for.


If the Guile syntax is changing so often, what is the point of keeping
old code in the LSR?


You mean: LilyPond syntax.  The point is supporting all current users 
of

LilyPond that don't have outdated systems.  The current Debian stable
uses 2.14.



OK, that is a reasonable argument - but like lots of other software, 
there has to be an EOL - why should the LSR continue to support ancient 
versions of Lilypond forever at the expense of efficiency for new users 
and others generally?




It is fair enough to tell people that they have to convert THEIR OWN
code but the people who run the LSR, repo should be responsible for
keeping that up to date . .


The LSR does not differentiate between versions, so it has to provide
stuff working for the oldest stable legitimately in use.



See above.



That's arguably a deficiency.  I am sure that your offers to extend the
LSR code accordingly will be appreciated by the person running the LSR.



I obviously don't understand why the LSR is being run by a "user" who 
seems to be uncontactable . . why isn't it part of the Lilypond 
structure proper?  I presume there are historical reasons . .




If there is an argument for keeping a snippet in it's original form
because of historical significance or something - an archive could be
kept of it.

Just my 2c . .


That will not buy a lot of code...



Good one!

Regards,

Phil.
--
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GPO Box 3411
Sydney NSW  2001
Australia
E-mail:  p...@pricom.com.au

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Hi,
as far as I scanned the thread nobody analyzed the problem of the shifted 
umlaut diacritic.

You might look up „composed“ vs. „decomposed“ Unicode - e.g. OSX uses (or used 
to use in previous versions) decomposed Unicode, where always „composing“ 
diacritics are used, opposite to complete glyphs. (That caused me some headache 
when I read directory trees with a Python script and wrote TeX markup from it, 
while TeX didn’t understand composed Unicode glyphs. Of course Python’s Unicode 
handling can fix it, but you have to know about it.)

So, I guess some software on your way decomposed your umlauts, and your PDF 
viewer can’t cope with it - did you try another PDF viewer? Is the display the 
same on different OSs?
If it’s in all viewers, the problem may be again in your version of pango.

Greetlings, Hraban
---
fiëé visuëlle
Henning Hraban Ramm
http://www.fiee.net
http://angerweit.tikon.ch/lieder/
https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)





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Re: multi-column markup function/macro?

[MarcM]

Check out also the The LilyPond Snippet Repository ♪♫
http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Search?q=column
  



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Re: "Generative music" and "Algorithmic composition"

[Philip Rhoades]

People,

David took this discussion off-list and then accused me of not having 
the guts to respond on-list . . so here the reply I sent him:



On 2014-01-17 16:00, Philip Rhoades wrote:

David,


On 2014-01-17 15:20, David Kastrup wrote:

Philip Rhoades  writes:


David,


Here is what you wrote in full:

From: Philip Rhoades 
Subject: Re: "Generative music" and "Algorithmic composition"
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 17:58:28 +1100 (8 hours, 56 minutes, 8
seconds ago)
Reply-To: p...@pricom.com.au


[...]


I get a GUILE error on line 5

  $(let

anyway . . I tried changing it to:

  $@(let

but that didn't work either (obviously I don't know what I'm
doing . .)

Regards,

Phil.


You did not, I repeat _not_ mention in any way that you used any code
other than that which was quoted here (actually stating "Here it is
after running convert-ly (from 2.14.0 to 2.18.0):"



They are Paul's words - not mine - as I have repeatedly said now - I
forgot to run the convert-ly myself and I missed that comment in
Paul's note . .


Then tell Paul not to undersign his mails with "Regards, Phil" and send
them from your address.



Paul's email:

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 12:22:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Morris 
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: "Generative music" and "Algorithmic composition"

SoundsFromSound wrote
Paul, that is a great little bit of code! Thank you for sharing 
that...I'm

going to play around with it later today. :)

Glad you like it, but David Kastrup gets the credit for it:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2014-01/msg00638.html

I just changed it from a set of 12 chromatic notes to those in C major 
and
added \transpose.  Maybe it's worth adding it to the LSR... hmmm... 
looks

like there's already a random note generator there:
http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=274

It generates notes in the current key from (middle) c' up to g''
Here it is after running convert-ly (from 2.14.0 to 2.18.0):

\version "2.18.0"
\score {
  {
$(let ((random-state (seed->random-state (current-time
   (make-sequential-music
(map (lambda (x)
   (let ((idx (random 12 random-state)))
 (make-event-chord
  (list
   (make-music 'NoteEvent
 'duration (ly:make-duration 2 0 1/1)
 'pitch (ly:make-pitch
 (quotient idx 7)
 (remainder idx 7)
 0))
  (make-list 24
  }
}

-Paul




You did not mention what code you used



Are you talking about which snippet or which version of Lilypond? - I
think it was clear that I was using the snippet from the link that
Paul provided.


You didn't: the error message you cited _clearly_ is not from the code
provided in the link.  It does match the code you quoted, but what you
tested was a half-botched combination of old and new code.



Yes, I made a mistake thinking that the snippet was exactly what Paul 
posted.




and where this error message was
from.


What do you mean? - The error message came from attempting to compile
the snippet from LSR.


No, it didn't.  The snippet from the LSR does not contain $(let
... anywhere.



Yes, I have already explained that, I said that I tested it once 
unchanged - got an error message, tested it again with the '#' changed 
to '$' - still got the error message . . also as I said if I had posted 
the original snippet, there would not have been an issue . .




It was absolutely impossible to guess that you were testing
anything other than what you quoted.



I think it was clear I was testing the snippet from LSR.


You weren't.  The snippet from the LSR does not contain $(let
... anywhere.



Previously expained . .



You did not, at any time, in spite of repeated notices that you
failed to provide the problematic source and the actual error
messages, provide this missing information until quite a bit of time
later.


I think you are misreading what I wrote.


No, I didn't.



So now it is clear - we have both made mistakes - I have admitted mine 
but you won't admit yours:


- not posting the reminder about convert-ly

- misreading a note as Phil instead of Paul

and those are just the ones I know about . .

Now if you can't admit those, then (now that we are off the list) what 
this argument has been about is: "dick-swinging" - OK yours is bigger 
than mine - you are right - you have never made mistakes, your brain is 
too big . .


Regards,

Phil.
--
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GPO Box 3411
Sydney NSW  2001
Australia
E-mail:  p...@pricom.com.au


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Re: multi-column markup function/macro?

[Jan-Peter Voigt]

So the tex-template doesn't suit (well) other environments then mine.

Another thing I have to look at is: I use "system" to call the xelatex
process. It might be better to use execp or exece.
I'll investigate.

It should be possible to use pandoc in the same manner. Pandoc can make
use of templates, so if there is a template ".latex" in a known
folder, pandoc will create a PDF from that template. That way, the
template can be modified to suit the local system.

Cheers, Jan-Peter

Am 16.01.2014 18:45, schrieb Alex Loomis:
> With the split files there are still a ton of warnings, but it creates
> and displays the pdf.


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Re: convert-ly: why \combine \null ?

[David Kastrup]

Henning Hraban Ramm  writes:

> Am 2014-01-14 um 14:28 schrieb David Kastrup :
>
>> Henning Hraban Ramm  writes:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> if I update my scores with convert-ly to 2.18, it changes every
>>> \vspace to \combine \null \vspace (within \markup{ \column {} }).
>>> Why? Does that make sense?
>> 
>> It doesn't make sense but compatibility.
>> 
>> If you now write \vspace #2 in a vertical column, it adds 2 units of
>> vertical space.  Previously, it added 2 units of vertical space _and_
>> one baselineskip.  The combination with \null has the same effect.
>
> Thank you.
> So would it make more sense (for me) to insert skips in a different
> way? E.g. for space between stanzas?

Just use appropriately more space, like \vspace #5 or so.  It depends on
the current spacing and font size just what number will have the same
effect as previously.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: "Generative music" and "Algorithmic composition"

[David Kastrup]

Philip Rhoades  writes:

>>> \version "2.18.0"
>>> \score {
>>>   {
>>> $(let ((random-state (seed->random-state (current-time
>>>(make-sequential-music
>>> (map (lambda (x)
>>>(let ((idx (random 12 random-state)))
>>
>>>  (make-event-chord
>>>   (list
>>
>> You can forego the above two lines (of course removing the respective
>> closing parens later on) nowadays.
>>
>>>(make-music 'NoteEvent
>>>  'duration (ly:make-duration 2 0 1/1)
>>>  'pitch (ly:make-pitch
>>>  (quotient idx 7)
>>>  (remainder idx 7)
>>>  0))
>>>   (make-list 24
>>
>> Ok, make-list is a tad-bit more basic and efficient than the iota I
>> employed.
>
>
> I get a GUILE error on line 5
>
>   $(let

I don't.  Copy and paste error?

>   $@(let
>
> but that didn't work either (obviously I don't know what I'm doing . .)

Obviously.  $ splices a single expression (which is what
make-sequential-music produces) into LilyPond, $@ splices a list of
expressions.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: how close are we to having an "addAt" or "insertAt" feature?

[Jan-Peter Voigt]

Hi Kieren,

Am 16.01.2014 03:16, schrieb Kieren MacMillan:
> 1. What — if any — drawbacks are there?
- if you use it without any template mechanism, you have to assign
proper edition-engraver id-paths - I can't say, what that means in
production.
- right now it is just ripped out of my working framework and might or
might not work as expected ... but this doesn't need to be called a
drawback, but a challenge ;)

> 2. Why is this not exactly (or even a superset of) the \addAt feature I 
> requested?
it propably is ... but in your feature request, you exposed a command
that modifies music given as an argument - without the knowledge of a
context. The technique I showed is engraver-based, so it is
context-based. That leads to two different input-schemes:

1. I want to change the music \A at measure X and moment Y
2. I want to change the output in context A at measure X and moment Y

Using the first input-scheme, one has to know the run of the music to
know the current time-signature and if this music is stored in variables
and is used more than once, the modification will show up on all places
this var is used. That might or might not be expected behaviour.

I started with the second input-scheme, because I wanted to modify the
display of the music (slurs, breaks and such) based on my first printout
for correction. But this approach makes it difficult to add (for
example) notes to the score. (It should be possible, but one has to deal
with a lot of things, lilypond already does ... reimplement the wheel(?) )
Addressing the right context can be tricky, if there are multiple voices
involved.
My intention with this engraver is, to modify the layout without
tweaking the actual music source.

To try a conclusion: Your first post on this request called for
layout-overrides outside the music definition:

> global = \repeat unfold 100 s1
> music = \addAt (4 3/8) \global \once \override RehearsalMark.extra-offset 
> #’(-1 . 0)

This could be done with the edition-engraver I proposed:

\editionMod full 4 3/8 my.global.id.Score.A \once \override
RehearsalMark.extra-offset #’(-1 . 0)

if the Score context \consists \editionEngraver my.global.id

I always look at this in my lalily-world. So I would need some
comments/input how it should work without my great ;) template machine
... well, I will extract that too - when time has come - and then it
will appear restructured in openlilylibs snippets.

Best, Jan-Peter


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compilation problem when using add-grace-property

[Gilberto Agostinho]

Hello all,

I am trying to figure out why a code of mine is not compiling, and I found
that this is related to the add-grace-property. The error I receive is:
*Exited with return code -1073741819.*

Here are two minimal examples. The top one compiles, the bottom one doesn't:


\version "2.18.0"
\score {
{ \grace {c''8 c''} c''1}
  \layout {
\context {
  \Score
  \with{ $(add-grace-property 'Voice 'Stem 'length-fraction '2) }
}
  }
}



\version "2.18.0"
\score {
{ \grace {c''8 c''} c''1}
  \layout {
\context {
  \Score
  \with{ $(add-grace-property 'Voice 'Stem 'details '((beamed-lengths
3.26 3.26 3.26 3.26))) }
}
  }
}


Actually, every modification to 'Voice 'Stem in the add-grace-property works
fine, except for 'details. Am I doing something wrong here? And in case this
is relevant, I am running Windows 8 64bit.

Thanks a lot!
Gilberto



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Re: Experiences from voice handling wanted

[Gilberto Agostinho]

Hi Peter,

When engraving music that has only occasionally two or more voices (such as
your example), I personally prefer to explicitly write all voices together
at once in this way:

\version "2.18.0"

music = \relative c'' {
2. 4 |
<< {e'4. d8 c2} \\ {g4 a b4. c8} >> |
4 2.
}

\score {
  \new Staff \music
}

Regards!
Gilberto



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Re: Experiences from voice handling wanted

[Gilberto Agostinho]

Gilberto Agostinho wrote
> [...] in this way:

Sorry, I pasted the code incompletely! Here it is:

\version "2.18.0" 

music = \relative c'' { 
2. 4 | 
<< {e'4. d8 c2} \\ {g4 a b4. c8} >> | 
4 2. 
} 

\score { 
  \new Staff \music 
} 



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Re: Experiences from voice handling wanted

[Gilberto Agostinho]

Gilberto Agostinho wrote
> Sorry, I pasted the code incompletely! Here it is:

Hmm, something is wrong, the first chord of my code is not being shown (at
least here at Nabble), so if someone tries to copy and paste it into a .LY
file and compile, it will not work.

I guess if I upload the code like this it will solve this issue:  piano.ly
  

Sorry for the spam...
Gilberto




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Re: how close are we to having an "addAt" or "insertAt" feature?

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Werner,

> what will you do with, say, 100 \addAt entries after inserting an additional 
> bar?

A replace script?

In any case, since it would be an optional parameter, it wouldn’t hurt anyone 
to have it in there…
As long as the syntax is clear and easy as to what is and is not a “mark” for 
the purposes of this "relative mark" system, no harm done.

Cheers,
Kieren.
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Re: how close are we to having an "addAt" or "insertAt" feature?

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi David,

>> How much sense would it make for there to be a separate \mark-style command
>> that functioned identically but didn't mess with the counter?
> 
> What do you mean?  Neither \mark #4 nor \mark "G" mess with the counter.

The point is that, if \addAt (or whatever) is “relative to marks”, then 
currently every \mark would “reset” the relativity.
But then every new \mark (e.g., \mark #4) would reset the relativity, and throw 
off all existing \addAt items.

So with a new command \mark-style (or perhaps the opposite? \rmark for 
‘rehearsal mark’ or ‘relative mark’, or something like that?), you could have 
one set of marks which [only] defines the ‘relativity points’, and another set 
of marks which outputs ‘non-relativity-resetting’ grobs.

As Marc points out, this could be handled equally well with another (non \mark) 
item:

> Perhaps some kind of "internal" marks that can be set without appearing
> in the score at all, just for the sake of being called by \addAt ?
> ...music ...
> \internalMark "ViolinsStartHere"
> ... more music ...
> followed by
> \addAt (4 3/8 "ViolinsStartHere") { ... fancy stuff … }

We already have \tag. Maybe that could be used?

In any case, it’s all academic to me at the moment: until proven otherwise, I’m 
going under the assumption that Jan-Peter’s edition engraver does all of this 
and far more, so there’s no need to even worry about it.  =)

Cheers,
Kieren.
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Re: Experiences from voice handling wanted

[Peter Bjuhr]

Hi Gilberto!

On 01/16/2014 10:44 AM, Gilberto Agostinho wrote:

Hmm, something is wrong, the first chord of my code is not being shown (at
least here at Nabble)


Hmm, strange problem with pasting the code...

On 01/16/2014 10:36 AM, Gilberto Agostinho wrote:

When engraving music that has only occasionally two or more voices (such as
your example), I personally prefer to explicitly write all voices together
at once [...]


Thanks for sharing your preferred method! I think this normally is a 
good option in cases like this, and perhaps what most people would use.


In my present case I must import the music via musicxml2ly because it's 
a piece I wrote previously in Finale (which I'm now going to finish and 
engrave in LilyPond).


I think I'm going to use the method I sketched with partcombine and if 
there occasionally are more than two voices per staff I will fix it 
using your method in addition; but any other thoughts are very welcome!


Best
Peter

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Re: Experiences from voice handling wanted

[Peter Bjuhr]

On 01/16/2014 11:14 AM, Peter Bjuhr wrote:
In my present case I must import the music via musicxml2ly because 
it's a piece I wrote previously in Finale (which I'm now going to 
finish and engrave in LilyPond). 


Maybe I should clarify for those not familiar with the output of 
musicxml2ly that it always puts different voices as different music 
variables. So to use the method you propose Gilberto would mean a lot of 
rewriting of the code and is perhaps not the best option in this case...


Best
Peter

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Re: Experiences from voice handling wanted

[Urs Liska]

Am 16.01.2014 11:14, schrieb Peter Bjuhr:

Hmm, something is wrong, the first chord of my code is not being shown
(at
least here at Nabble)


Hmm, strange problem with pasting the code...


the angled brackets tend to confuse mailing systems because they are 
usually used for quotes.


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Re: how close are we to having an "addAt" or "insertAt" feature?

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Jan-Peter,

> - if you use it without any template mechanism, you have to assign
> proper edition-engraver id-paths - I can't say, what that means in
> production.

I know you have a well-developed templating system… I wish I had time to look 
at it.

> 2. I want to change the output in context A at measure X and moment Y

That sounds perfectly fine for my purposes: I manually build my score 
templates, so I can name contexts appropriately.

> if this music is stored in variables
> and is used more than once, the modification will show up on all places
> this var is used. That might or might not be expected behaviour.

Ah! That might be undesireable, for sure.

> My intention with this engraver is, to modify the layout without
> tweaking the actual music source.

That’s certainly my goal as well: “perfect” separation of content from 
presentation.

> This could be done with the edition-engraver I proposed:
>\editionMod full 4 3/8 my.global.id.Score.A \once \override 
> RehearsalMark.extra-offset #’(-1 . 0)
> if the Score context \consists \editionEngraver my.global.id

Sounds good. I’ll give it a try in a “real [Kieren] world score” and get back 
to you.

Many thanks for all of this!
Kieren.
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kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Simon Bailey]

Hello,

Does the font handling in Lilypond know about ligatures in opentype
fonts? Using the same font in Indesign and lilypond gives me the
attached output. Compare the "ff" -- it should look like the Indesign
variant.

Another question: why has the Umlaut over the "u" gone wrong in
lilypond's output?

Regards,
sb
-- 
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quick to anger.
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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Simon,

> Does the font handling in Lilypond know about ligatures in opentype fonts?

I don’t believe so… one of the many typographical features Lilypond lacks.

> Using the same font

p.s. What font is that? It’s lovely.

> Another question: why has the Umlaut over the "u" gone wrong in lilypond's 
> output?

Please give your code — I’ve never had diacritical markings go wrong like that.

Cheers,
Kieren.
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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Urs Liska]

Am 16.01.2014 11:59, schrieb Simon Bailey:

Hello,

Does the font handling in Lilypond know about ligatures in opentype
fonts?


It does. See attachment.


Using the same font in Indesign and lilypond gives me the
attached output. Compare the "ff" -- it should look like the Indesign
variant.


I faintly recall that this may be OS dependent (I'm running Linux).
But for your example I assume that the default font doesn't contain the 
ligatures (I had to select a different font to get that result).

Which would be a pity if it's correct.



Another question: why has the Umlaut over the "u" gone wrong in
lilypond's output?


Sorry, no idea, this isn't dependent on the used font on my system.

HTH
Urs



Regards,
sb



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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Urs Liska]

Am 16.01.2014 12:02, schrieb Kieren MacMillan:

p.s. What font is that? It’s lovely.


Adobe Cronos Pro. Unfortunately non-free.

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Re: compilation problem when using add-grace-property

[Peter Bjuhr]

On 01/16/2014 10:29 AM, Gilberto Agostinho wrote:

I am trying to figure out why a code of mine is not compiling, and I found
that this is related to the add-grace-property. The error I receive is:
*Exited with return code -1073741819.*



\version "2.18.0"
\score {
 { \grace {c''8 c''} c''1}
   \layout {
 \context {
   \Score
   \with{ $(add-grace-property 'Voice 'Stem 'details '((beamed-lengths
3.26 3.26 3.26 3.26))) }
 }
   }
}


Actually, every modification to 'Voice 'Stem in the add-grace-property works
fine, except for 'details. Am I doing something wrong here? And in case this
is relevant, I am running Windows 8 64bit.


I get "Exited with exit status 1." (Ubuntu 13.10).

Could you point me to a reference how to use this?

Best
Peter

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Urs Liska]

Am 16.01.2014 12:08, schrieb Urs Liska:

But for your example I assume that the default font doesn't contain the
ligatures (I had to select a different font to get that result).


Sorry, I'm being stupid.

While compiling with the default font does _not_ give me the ligatures, 
using Cronos Pro _does_. So it's not an issue with the font.


Urs

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Kieren MacMillan]

>> p.s. What font is that? It’s lovely.
> Adobe Cronos Pro.

Thanks! Ah, that Robert Slimbach… he sure knows what he’s doing.

> Unfortunately non-free.

Certain things are worth paying for.  =)

Cheers,
Kieren.
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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Urs,

> I had to select a different font

And which one was that?

Thanks,
Kieren.

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Werner LEMBERG]

> Does the font handling in Lilypond know about ligatures in opentype
> fonts?

No.  Text handling is done by the Pango library.  Unfortunately, we
don't have an interface yet to control OpenType features.  This is
issue #1388.  The main problem is designing a good interface for
Lilypond; the implementation itself should be rather easy.

> Another question: why has the Umlaut over the "u" gone wrong in
> lilypond's output?

No idea.  Minimum example, please.  Are you using Windows?


Werner

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Simon Bailey]

Kieren, Urs,


On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Kieren MacMillan
 wrote:
>> Does the font handling in Lilypond know about ligatures in opentype fonts?
>
> I don’t believe so… one of the many typographical features Lilypond lacks.

Urs' example seems to show that it does... Strange

>> Using the same font
>
> p.s. What font is that? It’s lovely.

Thanks. :) I really like it too: https://typekit.com/fonts/cronos-pro
I'm using it through typekit, there are some hoops to jump through to
get lilypond to recognise it.

>> Another question: why has the Umlaut over the "u" gone wrong in lilypond's 
>> output?
>
> Please give your code — I’ve never had diacritical markings go wrong like 
> that.

%%%
legendde = \markup { \sans \huge \bold { Aufführungshinweise } }
%%%

However, when i just had a closer look, either windows, linux or OS X
had done something weird -- the umlaut was present as a separate
character, but kerned over the U in the text file. The umlaut is fixed
now.

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Urs Liska  wrote:
>> Does the font handling in Lilypond know about ligatures in opentype
>> fonts?
>
> It does. See attachment.

strange. which font is that?

>> Using the same font in Indesign and lilypond gives me the
>> attached output. Compare the "ff" -- it should look like the Indesign
>> variant.
>
> I faintly recall that this may be OS dependent (I'm running Linux).
> But for your example I assume that the default font doesn't contain the
> ligatures (I had to select a different font to get that result).
> Which would be a pity if it's correct.

i used exactly the same font in indesign and in lilypond. the ligature
is there, otherwise indesign wouldn't show it either... I generated my
PDF on OS X, i'll reboot to linux in a bit and then try generating the
PDF file there, see what happens.

>> Another question: why has the Umlaut over the "u" gone wrong in
>> lilypond's output?
>
> Sorry, no idea, this isn't dependent on the used font on my system.

see above, it seems to be an encoding issue jumping between three
different operating systems (but using frescobaldi on all 3...).

regards,
sb

-- 
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quick to anger.

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Urs Liska]

Am 16.01.2014 12:14, schrieb Kieren MacMillan:

Hi Urs,


I had to select a different font


And which one was that?



Minion Pro, by - Robert Slimbach ;-)

I _very_ much like the Minion/Cronos combination and use it all the time.
Minion in particular has the advantage of a wide array of weights and 
widths. That makes it suitable to find a perfect complement for LilyPond 
scores.
With condensed you have a choice of regular medium and semibold alone to 
select for lyrics.


Urs


Thanks,
Kieren.




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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Urs Liska]

Am 16.01.2014 12:17, schrieb Simon Bailey:

I'm using it through typekit, there are some hoops to jump through to
get lilypond to recognise it.


Which may be a hint where to look for problems.

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Urs,

> Minion Pro, by - Robert Slimbach ;-)

I own this! The full Minion Pro MM font was my 21st birthday present from my 
parents.

> I _very_ much like the Minion/Cronos combination and use it all the time.

I may just have to add Cronos to my font kit.

> Minion in particular has the advantage of a wide array of weights and widths. 
> That makes it suitable to find a perfect complement for LilyPond scores.
> With condensed you have a choice of regular medium and semibold alone to 
> select for lyrics.

Thanks!
Kieren.
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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Urs Liska]

Am 16.01.2014 12:19, schrieb Urs Liska:

With condensed you have a choice of regular medium and semibold alone to
select for lyrics.


See attached include file on how we fine-tuned the font appearance in 
the Fried songs edition.


Urs
\version "2.17.3"
%{
  Default font set for Adobe Minion Pro
  include this file if you want to use Minion Pro as your default font
  Developed for the Fried Song edition.
  More Layout objects may be added 
  Keep in mind that there is also the opticals set available
%}

\layout {
  \context {
\Score

% Medium Condensed is a _very_ useful font face for lyrics
% Condensed makes it quite narrow, and Medium suits very
% well in LilyPond's overall appearance 
\override LyricText #'font-name = #"Minion Pro Medium Condensed"

\override BarNumber #'font-name = "Minion Pro Semibold Condensed"
\override TextScript #'font-name = "Minion Pro Medium Italic"
\override TextSpanner #'font-name = "Minion Pro Medium Italic"
\override DynamicTextSpanner #'font-name = "Minion Pro Medium 
Italic"
\override MultiMeasureRestText #'font-name = "Minion Pro Medium 
Italic"

\override MetronomeMark #'font-name = "Minion Pro Bold"
\override TupletNumber #'font-name = "Minion Pro Bold Italic"

\override FootnoteItem #'font-name = "Minion Pro Medium"

\override OttavaBracket #'font-name = "Minion Pro Semibold 
Condensed Italic"
  }


\context {
  \Staff
  \override InstrumentName #'font-name = "Minion Pro Medium Condensed"
}
\context {
  \PianoStaff
  \override InstrumentName #'font-name = "Minion Pro Medium Condensed"
}
}
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Re: compilation problem when using add-grace-property

[Gilberto Agostinho]

Hi Peter,


Peter Bjuhr wrote
> I get "Exited with exit status 1." (Ubuntu 13.10).
> Could you point me to a reference how to use this?

I don't think I understand what you meant. My problem is exactly that the
second code does not compile, while the top one does. The fact that you get
an error while trying to compile the second code just supports that there is
something wrong here.

And I got one more interesting fact: the bottom code would compile if all
the music is below the central line (i.e., if the stems of all grace and
normal notes are up). So for some reason, this compiles properly:

 
\version "2.18.0" 
\score { 
{ \grace {c8 c} c1} 
  \layout { 
\context { 
  \Score 
  \with{ $(add-grace-property 'Voice 'Stem 'details '((beamed-lengths
3.26 3.26 3.26 3.26))) } 
} 
  } 
} 
 



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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Alexander Kobel]

On 01/16/2014 12:02 PM, Kieren MacMillan wrote:

Hi Simon,


Does the font handling in Lilypond know about ligatures in opentype fonts?


I don’t believe so… one of the many typographical features Lilypond lacks.


It should, AFAIK.


Using the same font


p.s. What font is that? It’s lovely.


I assume it's Cronos , since 
that's what you mentioned in a former mail explaining your house style 
sheet.



Another question: why has the Umlaut over the "u" gone wrong in lilypond's 
output?


Please give your code — I’ve never had diacritical markings go wrong like that.


Agreed.

Could this stem from the fact that you're using the Typekit Sync to get 
the font (see, I remember that, too...) I have no idea how exactly it 
works, and which environment you use; but if they want to protect the 
font from being copied out of your box, I can imagine that the font is 
changed in a subtle way such that Ligatures are off their default 
position or whatever...
Also, try the same code with the default Century font. This should 
explain whether Lily or your font/Typekit is to blame...



HTH,
Alexander

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Re: "Generative music" and "Algorithmic composition"

[Philip Rhoades]

David,


On 2014-01-16 18:08, David Kastrup wrote:

Philip Rhoades  writes:


\version "2.18.0"
\score {
  {
$(let ((random-state (seed->random-state (current-time
   (make-sequential-music
(map (lambda (x)
   (let ((idx (random 12 random-state)))



 (make-event-chord
  (list


You can forego the above two lines (of course removing the respective
closing parens later on) nowadays.


   (make-music 'NoteEvent
 'duration (ly:make-duration 2 0 1/1)
 'pitch (ly:make-pitch
 (quotient idx 7)
 (remainder idx 7)
 0))
  (make-list 24


Ok, make-list is a tad-bit more basic and efficient than the iota I
employed.



I get a GUILE error on line 5

  $(let


I don't.  Copy and paste error?


  $@(let

but that didn't work either (obviously I don't know what I'm doing . 
.)


Obviously.  $ splices a single expression (which is what
make-sequential-music produces) into LilyPond, $@ splices a list of
expressions.



I recopied and pasted the whole snippet - which gives the same result as 
right-click and save.


The original has:

  #(let . .

  http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=274

but I get a GUILE error on that too . .

Thanks,

Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades

GPO Box 3411
Sydney NSW  2001
Australia
E-mail:  p...@pricom.com.au

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Simon Bailey]

hi,

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Urs Liska  wrote:
> Am 16.01.2014 12:17, schrieb Simon Bailey:
>
>> I'm using it through typekit, there are some hoops to jump through to
>> get lilypond to recognise it.
>
> Which may be a hint where to look for problems.

copied the .otf file from the TypeKit font cache directory to
~/.fonts. On linux that works perfectly, on OS X, I _think_ i had to
change some fontconfig files to include that location.

I just booted to linux, and generated my PDF. In comparison, I used
the same font in LibreOffice writer (not necessarily the best
typographical tool in the world), and this is the comparison:
http://nota.bailey.at/libre-office-frescobaldi-linux.png (sorry, too
big to attach).

the ligature is obviously there in my copy of the font.

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 12:21 PM, Kieren MacMillan
 wrote:
>> Minion Pro, by - Robert Slimbach ;-)
>
> I own this! The full Minion Pro MM font was my 21st birthday present from my 
> parents.
>
>> I _very_ much like the Minion/Cronos combination and use it all the time.
>
> I may just have to add Cronos to my font kit.
>
>> Minion in particular has the advantage of a wide array of weights and 
>> widths. That makes it suitable to find a perfect complement for LilyPond 
>> scores.
>> With condensed you have a choice of regular medium and semibold alone to 
>> select for lyrics.

Minion is beautiful -- I use it as a CI font in a different
enterprise. :) For music, I like Kepler, which also has a massive
assortment of weights and styles. Thanks for your include file, that
gives me some ideas and answers another question i've had drafted in a
mail for a while... :D

regards,
sb
-- 
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quick to anger.

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Re: "Generative music" and "Algorithmic composition"

[David Kastrup]

Philip Rhoades  writes:

> David,
>>>
>>> I get a GUILE error on line 5
>>>
>>>   $(let
>>
>> I don't.  Copy and paste error?
>>
>>>   $@(let
>>>
>>> but that didn't work either (obviously I don't know what I'm doing
>>> . .)
>>
>> Obviously.  $ splices a single expression (which is what
>> make-sequential-music produces) into LilyPond, $@ splices a list of
>> expressions.
>
>
> I recopied and pasted the whole snippet - which gives the same result
> as right-click and save.
>
> The original has:
>
>   #(let . .
>
>   http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=274
>
> but I get a GUILE error on that too . .

I am not going to play guessing games as to what you copied and pasted
into what version of LilyPond with what exact error messages and/or
results.  As I stated, copying and pasting the original code posted in
this thread works just fine.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[David Kastrup]

Kieren MacMillan  writes:

>>> p.s. What font is that? It’s lovely.
>> Adobe Cronos Pro.
>
> Thanks! Ah, that Robert Slimbach… he sure knows what he’s doing.
>
>> Unfortunately non-free.
>
> Certain things are worth paying for.  =)

Nothing more worth paying for than freedom.  All my work on LilyPond is
freely available but that does not mean that nobody pays for it.

What you mean is "certain things are worth paying for even if you don't
get to share them".

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: compilation problem when using add-grace-property

[David Kastrup]

Gilberto Agostinho  writes:

> Hello all,
>
> I am trying to figure out why a code of mine is not compiling, and I found
> that this is related to the add-grace-property. The error I receive is:
> *Exited with return code -1073741819.*
>
> Here are two minimal examples. The top one compiles, the bottom one doesn't:
>
> 
> \version "2.18.0"
> \score {
> { \grace {c''8 c''} c''1}
>   \layout {
> \context {
>   \Score
>   \with{ $(add-grace-property 'Voice 'Stem 'length-fraction '2) }
> }
>   }
> }
> 
>
> 
> \version "2.18.0"
> \score {
> { \grace {c''8 c''} c''1}
>   \layout {
> \context {
>   \Score
>   \with{ $(add-grace-property 'Voice 'Stem 'details '((beamed-lengths
> 3.26 3.26 3.26 3.26))) }
> }
>   }
> }
> 
>
> Actually, every modification to 'Voice 'Stem in the add-grace-property works
> fine, except for 'details. Am I doing something wrong here?

You are deleting all preexisting details without replacement.

-- 
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Re: compilation problem when using add-grace-property

[Gilberto Agostinho]

SOLVED, so I will post the solution here:

David Kastrup wrote me "You are deleting all preexisting details without
replacement". So basically what needed to be done is that I should have
written...

'details 'beamed-lengths (3.26 3.26 3.26 3.26)

...instead of:

'details '(beamed-lengths (3.26 3.26 3.26 3.26))

* * *

So here is a functional code

 
\version "2.18.0" 
\score { 
{ \grace {c''8 c''} c''1} 
  \layout { 
\context { 
  \Score 
  \with{ $(add-grace-property 'Voice 'Stem 'details 'beamed-lengths
(3.26 3.26 3.26 3.26)) } 
} 
  } 
} 
 



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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Werner LEMBERG]

> the ligature is obviously there in my copy of the font.

You are aware that `Aufführung' *without* an `ff' ligature is the
correct way to write this word in German?  `Auf' is a prefix, and as
such it should not have a ligature with the rest of the word.  A
famous example of a similar situation is the word `Dorfladen' (a small
shop in a village), where an `fl' ligature gives very strange
connotations (Fladen = cow dung).  Ditto for the word `Auflage': With
a ligature, it looks like a French word...

In other words, you should insert a U+200C `ZWNJ' (zero width
no-joiner) character between the two `f' characters.


Werner
 
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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Urs Liska]

Am 16.01.2014 12:54, schrieb Werner LEMBERG:



the ligature is obviously there in my copy of the font.


You are aware that `Aufführung' *without* an `ff' ligature is the
correct way to write this word in German?  `Auf' is a prefix, and as
such it should not have a ligature with the rest of the word.  A
famous example of a similar situation is the word `Dorfladen' (a small
shop in a village), where an `fl' ligature gives very strange
connotations (Fladen = cow dung).  Ditto for the word `Auflage': With
a ligature, it looks like a French word...

In other words, you should insert a U+200C `ZWNJ' (zero width
no-joiner) character between the two `f' characters.


Of course that's correct. Yet the OP still has an issue with ligatures 
in his setup.


Asking for a [selnolig] for LilyPond seems like too much ...




 Werner

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Re: compilation problem when using add-grace-property

[Peter Bjuhr]

On 01/16/2014 12:30 PM, Gilberto Agostinho wrote:

Peter Bjuhr wrote

>I get "Exited with exit status 1." (Ubuntu 13.10).
>Could you point me to a reference how to use this?

I don't think I understand what you meant.


I meant only that if you where using any reference from the manual or 
somewhere else while producing the code maybe you could share it, and it 
would be easier to contribute to a solution.


I see that you got a hint from David. Great!

Best
Peter

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Re: "Generative music" and "Algorithmic composition"

[Philip Rhoades]

David,


On 2014-01-16 22:42, David Kastrup wrote:

Philip Rhoades  writes:


David,


I get a GUILE error on line 5

  $(let


I don't.  Copy and paste error?


  $@(let

but that didn't work either (obviously I don't know what I'm doing
. .)


Obviously.  $ splices a single expression (which is what
make-sequential-music produces) into LilyPond, $@ splices a list of
expressions.



I recopied and pasted the whole snippet - which gives the same result
as right-click and save.

The original has:

  #(let . .

  http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=274

but I get a GUILE error on that too . .


I am not going to play guessing games as to what you copied and pasted
into what version of LilyPond with what exact error messages and/or
results.  As I stated, copying and pasting the original code posted in
this thread works just fine.



I just did a diff on what is in the LSR and what Paul posted in his 
email - the differences are:


- the LSR has a "#" instead of a "$" on the let

- the LSR has a line (and closing brace): (ly:export

=> the LSR fails, Paul's doesn't, (FTR I am using 2.18.0).

Regards,

Phil.
--
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GPO Box 3411
Sydney NSW  2001
Australia
E-mail:  p...@pricom.com.au

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Werner LEMBERG]

> Asking for a [selnolig] for LilyPond seems like too much ...

Why not?  It shouldn't be too difficult to use the data from this
lualatex package to write a script that walks over lilypond strings,
given that Frescobaldi now has a Python library to parse Lilypond
input files.


Werner

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Re: compilation problem when using add-grace-property

[Gilberto Agostinho]

correction: what I thought was the solution is actually not working properly.
It does compiles the code, but it gives an error message. The solution I am
using now is to write down every single element of 'details in their default
values, and then change what I want to change. 

Example:  grace_notes_and_ledger_lines.ly

  



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RE: grace notes and ledger lines

[Gilberto Agostinho]

Gilberto Agostinho wrote
> This solution is actually not working properly. It works perfectly if
> grace notes are below the pitch B in the middle line. If the grace notes
> are above (thus having their stem down), I get the following error:
> Exited with return code -1073741819.

Solved, now it works perfectly well:  grace_notes_and_ledger_lines.ly

  

Regards,
Gilberto




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Re: "Generative music" and "Algorithmic composition"

[David Kastrup]

Philip Rhoades  writes:

> David,
>
>
> On 2014-01-16 22:42, David Kastrup wrote:
>> Philip Rhoades  writes:
>>
>>> David,
>
> I get a GUILE error on line 5
>
>   $(let

 I don't.  Copy and paste error?

>   $@(let
>
> but that didn't work either (obviously I don't know what I'm doing
> . .)

 Obviously.  $ splices a single expression (which is what
 make-sequential-music produces) into LilyPond, $@ splices a list of
 expressions.
>>>
>>>
>>> I recopied and pasted the whole snippet - which gives the same result
>>> as right-click and save.
>>>
>>> The original has:
>>>
>>>   #(let . .
>>>
>>>   http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=274
>>>
>>> but I get a GUILE error on that too . .
>>
>> I am not going to play guessing games as to what you copied and pasted
>> into what version of LilyPond with what exact error messages and/or
>> results.  As I stated, copying and pasting the original code posted in
>> this thread works just fine.
>
>
> I just did a diff on what is in the LSR and what Paul posted in his
> email - the differences are:
>
> - the LSR has a "#" instead of a "$" on the let
>
> - the LSR has a line (and closing brace): (ly:export
>
> => the LSR fails, Paul's doesn't, (FTR I am using 2.18.0).

So your first statement:

> I get a GUILE error on line 5
>
>   $(let

was wrong, and my guess

 I don't.  Copy and paste error?

concerning your use of Paul's converted code was correct.  Like with
_any_ material prepared for an older version of LilyPond, you have to
run convert-ly on it before using it.  Which is just what Paul did in
order to arrive at "his" version.  Yes, this rewrites the Scheme
expression.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: compilation problem when using add-grace-property

[David Kastrup]

Gilberto Agostinho  writes:

> SOLVED, so I will post the solution here:
>
> David Kastrup wrote me "You are deleting all preexisting details without
> replacement". So basically what needed to be done is that I should have
> written...
>
> 'details 'beamed-lengths (3.26 3.26 3.26 3.26)
>
> ...instead of:
>
> 'details '(beamed-lengths (3.26 3.26 3.26 3.26))
>
> * * *
>
> So here is a functional code
>
>  
> \version "2.18.0" 
> \score { 
> { \grace {c''8 c''} c''1} 
>   \layout { 
> \context { 
>   \Score 
>   \with{ $(add-grace-property 'Voice 'Stem 'details 'beamed-lengths
> (3.26 3.26 3.26 3.26)) } 
> } 
>   } 
> } 
>  

Nice idea, doesn't work.  add-grace-property does not support
subproperties.  Instead you would have needed to write
(add-grace-property 'Voice 'Stem 'details
 '(
;; 3.5 (or 3 measured from note head) is standard length
;; 32nd, 64th, 128th flagged stems should be longer
(lengths . (3.5 3.5 3.5 4.25 5.0 6.0))

;; FIXME.  3.5 yields too long beams (according to Ross and
;; looking at Baerenreiter examples) for a number of common
;; boundary cases.  Subtracting half a beam thickness fixes
;; this, but the bug may well be somewhere else.

;; FIXME this should come from 'lengths
(beamed-lengths . (3.26 3.26 3.26 3.26))

;; The 'normal' minima
(beamed-minimum-free-lengths . (1.83 1.5 1.25))
;;(beamed-minimum-free-lengths . (2.0 1.83 1.25))

;; The 'extreme case' minima
(beamed-extreme-minimum-free-lengths . (2.0 1.25))

;; Stems in unnatural (forced) direction should be shortened by
;; one staff space, according to [Roush & Gourlay].
;; Flagged stems we shorten only half a staff space.
(stem-shorten . (1.0 0.5))

))


-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Kieren MacMillan]

> Nothing more worth paying for than freedom.

I’m not sure I agree… but this certainly isn’t the place to discuss that.

> All my work on LilyPond is freely available but that does not mean that 
> nobody pays for it.

I well know this.  =)

> What you mean is "certain things are worth paying for even if you don’t get 
> to share them”.

Well, that’s what you interpreted me to mean, anyway.

Cheers,
Kieren.
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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Simon Bailey]

Hi,

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Werner LEMBERG  wrote:
>
>> the ligature is obviously there in my copy of the font.
>
> You are aware that `Aufführung' *without* an `ff' ligature is the
> correct way to write this word in German?  `Auf' is a prefix, and as
> such it should not have a ligature with the rest of the word.  A
> famous example of a similar situation is the word `Dorfladen' (a small
> shop in a village), where an `fl' ligature gives very strange
> connotations (Fladen = cow dung).  Ditto for the word `Auflage': With
> a ligature, it looks like a French word...
>
> In other words, you should insert a U+200C `ZWNJ' (zero width
> no-joiner) character between the two `f' characters.

hmm. I wasn't actually aware of that. But it makes sense. ;)

However, as Urs also mentioned, I still have the problem for other
words, such as "difference", "first repetition" or "left hand" (which
do deserve a ligature). However, these words are not in titles, so
it's not as obvious.

The fonts I am using have the ligatures, as they are shown in other
programs. Any ideas how to ask lilypond to use them?

regards,
sb
-- 
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quick to anger.

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Urs Liska]

Am 16.01.2014 13:38, schrieb Simon Bailey:

Hi,

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Werner LEMBERG  wrote:



the ligature is obviously there in my copy of the font.


You are aware that `Aufführung' *without* an `ff' ligature is the
correct way to write this word in German?  `Auf' is a prefix, and as
such it should not have a ligature with the rest of the word.  A
famous example of a similar situation is the word `Dorfladen' (a small
shop in a village), where an `fl' ligature gives very strange
connotations (Fladen = cow dung).  Ditto for the word `Auflage': With
a ligature, it looks like a French word...

In other words, you should insert a U+200C `ZWNJ' (zero width
no-joiner) character between the two `f' characters.


hmm. I wasn't actually aware of that. But it makes sense. ;)

However, as Urs also mentioned, I still have the problem for other
words, such as "difference", "first repetition" or "left hand" (which
do deserve a ligature). However, these words are not in titles, so
it's not as obvious.

The fonts I am using have the ligatures, as they are shown in other
programs. Any ideas how to ask lilypond to use them?


The problem (as Wernes said initially) is that you can't _ask_ LilyPond 
for it. Depending on your OS and font setup it just does it or not ...


Urs



regards,
sb




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Re: compilation problem when using add-grace-property

[Gilberto Agostinho]

Hi David


David Kastrup wrote
> Nice idea, doesn't work.  add-grace-property does not support
> subproperties.  

Thanks a lot for your messages and help. I realized that it wasn't working
and I came with the same solution as you wrote. A file with the working code
(named grace_notes_and_ledger_lines.ly) was already uploaded to this thread
(just above your post), so in the future someone may come across this.

Thanks again and take care,
Gilberto



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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Simon Bailey]

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Urs Liska  wrote:
> The problem (as Wernes said initially) is that you can't _ask_ LilyPond for
> it. Depending on your OS and font setup it just does it or not ...

where do i start debugging? this obviously works for other people.

OS: Fedora 20
lilypond: 2.17.97, installed using the tar.gz distributed file from
the lilypond.org website.
pango-1.36.1-1.fc20.x86_64
freetype-2.5.0-4.fc20.x86_64
fontconfig-2.11.0-1.fc20.x86_64

however, lilypond doesn't seem to be using these libraries on my
system, as ldd shows:

<<<
ldd ~/lilypond/usr/bin/lilypond

<...SNIP...>
libpangoft2-1.0.so.0 =>
/home/binabik/lilypond/usr/bin/../lib/libpangoft2-1.0.so.0
(0x7f020c67e000)
libpango-1.0.so.0 =>
/home/binabik/lilypond/usr/bin/../lib/libpango-1.0.so.0
(0x7f020c433000)
libfreetype.so.6 =>
/home/binabik/lilypond/usr/bin/../lib/libfreetype.so.6
(0x7f020c1af000)
libfontconfig.so.1 =>
/home/binabik/lilypond/usr/bin/../lib/libfontconfig.so.1
(0x7f020bf7b000)
<...SNIP...>

>>>

running ldconfig -p | grep fontconfig:
<<<
libfontconfig.so.1 (libc6,x86-64) => /lib64/libfontconfig.so.1
libfontconfig.so.1 (libc6) => /lib/libfontconfig.so.1
libfontconfig.so (libc6,x86-64) => /lib64/libfontconfig.so
>>>

Is this intentional? Would it change things if I were to use the
system version of these libraries?
-- 
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quick to anger.

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Noeck]

Hi,

just to add one more (system-)configuration example:
Ligatures work for me on this system:
Linux, Ubuntu 13.10, LilyPond 2.18.0, tested with Linux Libertine and
Century Schoolbook.

It also depends on the font, Linux Libertine shows ligatures for Qu and
Th, Century Schoolbook doesn’t. But that’s not your question.

Cheers,
Joram


\version "2.18.0"
\paper {
  myStaffSize = #20
  fonts = #(make-pango-font-tree
"Linux Libertine O"
"Linux Biolinum O"
"Ubuntu Mono"
(/ myStaffSize 20))
}

\markup "Aufführung Quark Theorie Dorfladen finden"

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Re: "Generative music" and "Algorithmic composition"

[Philip Rhoades]

David,


On 2014-01-16 23:24, David Kastrup wrote:

Philip Rhoades  writes:


David,


On 2014-01-16 22:42, David Kastrup wrote:

Philip Rhoades  writes:


David,


I get a GUILE error on line 5

  $(let


I don't.  Copy and paste error?


  $@(let

but that didn't work either (obviously I don't know what I'm doing
. .)


Obviously.  $ splices a single expression (which is what
make-sequential-music produces) into LilyPond, $@ splices a list of
expressions.



I recopied and pasted the whole snippet - which gives the same 
result

as right-click and save.

The original has:

  #(let . .

  http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=274

but I get a GUILE error on that too . .


I am not going to play guessing games as to what you copied and 
pasted

into what version of LilyPond with what exact error messages and/or
results.  As I stated, copying and pasting the original code posted 
in

this thread works just fine.



I just did a diff on what is in the LSR and what Paul posted in his
email - the differences are:

- the LSR has a "#" instead of a "$" on the let

- the LSR has a line (and closing brace): (ly:export

=> the LSR fails, Paul's doesn't, (FTR I am using 2.18.0).


So your first statement:


I get a GUILE error on line 5

  $(let


was wrong, and my guess


I don't.  Copy and paste error?


concerning your use of Paul's converted code was correct.  Like with
_any_ material prepared for an older version of LilyPond, you have to
run convert-ly on it before using it.  Which is just what Paul did in
order to arrive at "his" version.  Yes, this rewrites the Scheme
expression.



OK, lesson learned - obviously not the sort of behaviour I am used to 
with other languages . .


Thanks,

Phil.
--
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GPO Box 3411
Sydney NSW  2001
Australia
E-mail:  p...@pricom.com.au

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Noeck]

Hi Simon,

ah, for me it does not work with the default (2.16.2) Lilypond coming
with Ubuntu (/usr/bin/lilypond). But with newer versions installed from
the website, which use different libraries.

Joram

Am 16.01.2014 13:57, schrieb Simon Bailey:
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Urs Liska  wrote:
>> The problem (as Wernes said initially) is that you can't _ask_ LilyPond for
>> it. Depending on your OS and font setup it just does it or not ...
> 
> where do i start debugging? this obviously works for other people.
> 
> OS: Fedora 20
> lilypond: 2.17.97, installed using the tar.gz distributed file from
> the lilypond.org website.
> pango-1.36.1-1.fc20.x86_64
> freetype-2.5.0-4.fc20.x86_64
> fontconfig-2.11.0-1.fc20.x86_64
> 
> however, lilypond doesn't seem to be using these libraries on my
> system, as ldd shows:
> 
> <<<
> ldd ~/lilypond/usr/bin/lilypond
> 
> <...SNIP...>
> libpangoft2-1.0.so.0 =>
> /home/binabik/lilypond/usr/bin/../lib/libpangoft2-1.0.so.0
> (0x7f020c67e000)
> libpango-1.0.so.0 =>
> /home/binabik/lilypond/usr/bin/../lib/libpango-1.0.so.0
> (0x7f020c433000)
> libfreetype.so.6 =>
> /home/binabik/lilypond/usr/bin/../lib/libfreetype.so.6
> (0x7f020c1af000)
> libfontconfig.so.1 =>
> /home/binabik/lilypond/usr/bin/../lib/libfontconfig.so.1
> (0x7f020bf7b000)
> <...SNIP...>
> 

> 
> running ldconfig -p | grep fontconfig:
> <<<
> libfontconfig.so.1 (libc6,x86-64) => /lib64/libfontconfig.so.1
> libfontconfig.so.1 (libc6) => /lib/libfontconfig.so.1
> libfontconfig.so (libc6,x86-64) => /lib64/libfontconfig.so

> 
> Is this intentional? Would it change things if I were to use the
> system version of these libraries?
> 

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Werner LEMBERG]

> hmm. I wasn't actually aware of that. But it makes sense. ;)

Note that the German support for LaTeX goes even one step further: The
command

  "|

(to be inserted between the two non-ligature characters) adds some
small horizontal space to avoid glyph collisions.

As mentioned by Urs, there is even a (semi)automatic solution called
`selnolig' which uses a dictionary of German words to find and handle
such non-ligatures properly (this is, you don't have to insert "| any
more).


Werner

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Re: "Generative music" and "Algorithmic composition"

[David Kastrup]

Philip Rhoades  writes:

> David,

>> So your first statement:
>>
>>> I get a GUILE error on line 5
>>>
>>>   $(let
>>
>> was wrong, and my guess
>>
>> I don't.  Copy and paste error?
>>
>> concerning your use of Paul's converted code was correct.  Like with
>> _any_ material prepared for an older version of LilyPond, you have to
>> run convert-ly on it before using it.  Which is just what Paul did in
>> order to arrive at "his" version.  Yes, this rewrites the Scheme
>> expression.
>
> OK, lesson learned - obviously not the sort of behaviour I am used to
> with other languages . .

Other languages will also complain about copy and paste errors.  You
don't make things easier for other people if your reports don't match
what you are actually doing, even if you think that this "should" not
make a difference.  If things were doing everything you think they
"should", you would not be having problems in the first place.

Seems like I forgot to point out the importance of bringing your
versions up to the new syntax in the release announcement for 2.18.  At
any rate, see
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/usage/why-does-the-syntax-change_003f.html>.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Alexander Kobel]

On 01/16/2014 02:25 PM, Werner LEMBERG wrote:

hmm. I wasn't actually aware of that. But it makes sense. ;)


Note that the German support for LaTeX goes even one step further: The
command

   "|

(to be inserted between the two non-ligature characters) adds some
small horizontal space to avoid glyph collisions.


I was about to ask in that direction.  If for a font "ff" leads to 
collisions, and the ligature is not correct at that point, is it 
recommended to insert space or to switch the font?  Or, stated 
differently:  Should I consider it a sign of low quality of a font if 
consecutive letters collide or touch unpleasantly, even if a ligature 
exists?



As mentioned by Urs, there is even a (semi)automatic solution called
`selnolig' which uses a dictionary of German words to find and handle
such non-ligatures properly (this is, you don't have to insert "| any
more).


Amazing.  IIUC, that requires the /text rendering engine/ to bring it's 
own dictionary?  (How) does it work if the word is hyphenated at a 
different position?  I thought the rendering engine is called with small 
units of text, such as the part before and after the hyphen separately; 
so the context is sent additionally?



Best,
Alexander

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Simon Bailey]

Hello listers,

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 2:10 PM, Noeck  wrote:
> ah, for me it does not work with the default (2.16.2) Lilypond coming
> with Ubuntu (/usr/bin/lilypond). But with newer versions installed from
> the website, which use different libraries.

Using the 64 bit _linux_ version of 2.18.0-1 from lilypond.org i don't
get ligatures.
Using the 64 bit _mac OS X_ version of 2.17.97 from lilypond.org i
don't get ligatures.
Using the 32 bit _linux_ version of 2.18.0-1 from lilypond.org i DO
get ligatures.

I conclude: something regarding font handling is broken in the 64-bit
version. As there was a discussion sometime in the past couple of
weeks that the 64-bit version doesn't really offer any benefits, i'll
have to go that route for now and generate the final versions of the
scores on my linux box.

regards,
sb
-- 
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quick to anger.

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Re: "Generative music" and "Algorithmic composition"

[Philip Rhoades]

David,


On 2014-01-17 00:22, David Kastrup wrote:

Philip Rhoades  writes:


David,



So your first statement:


I get a GUILE error on line 5

  $(let


was wrong, and my guess


I don't.  Copy and paste error?


concerning your use of Paul's converted code was correct.  Like with
_any_ material prepared for an older version of LilyPond, you have to
run convert-ly on it before using it.  Which is just what Paul did in
order to arrive at "his" version.  Yes, this rewrites the Scheme
expression.


OK, lesson learned - obviously not the sort of behaviour I am used to
with other languages . .


Other languages will also complain about copy and paste errors.



It wasn't a copy and paste error - I proved that by redoing it, diffing 
etc - it was ONLY the version issue.




You
don't make things easier for other people if your reports don't match
what you are actually doing,



That is incorrect, I reported exactly what I did - I got a GUILE error 
(on an old snippet version) - I probably should have posted the code, 
then it would have been clear straight away - but it wasn't a copy and 
paste problem.




even if you think that this "should" not
make a difference.  If things were doing everything you think they
"should", you would not be having problems in the first place.



That is a fair comment in general does not apply in this case - the fact 
is that I hadn't remembered the conversion thing and if I had, there 
wouldn't have been an issue . . and it is NOT unreasonable for someone 
coming from other coding regimes not to have upper in their minds: that 
ALL old code has to be converted - this is unusual situation.




Seems like I forgot to point out the importance of bringing your
versions up to the new syntax in the release announcement for 2.18.  At
any rate, see
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/usage/why-does-the-syntax-change_003f.html>.



Thanks,

Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades

GPO Box 3411
Sydney NSW  2001
Australia
E-mail:  p...@pricom.com.au

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Simon Bailey]

ok, this is a known issue.
https://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=2656#c29

-- 
Do not meddle in the affairs of trombonists, for they are subtle and
quick to anger.

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Werner LEMBERG]

> If for a font "ff" leads to collisions, and the ligature is not
> correct at that point, is it recommended to insert space or to
> switch the font?

Yes, at least for German.

> Or, stated differently: Should I consider it a sign of low quality
> of a font if consecutive letters collide or touch unpleasantly, even
> if a ligature exists?

It depends.  Basically, it's a locale thing.  For example, in Turkish
you must not use an `fi' ligature at all to avoid misinterpretation
with `fı'.  I can imagine that an OpenType font's German language
support recognizes the sequence(in the GPOS table),
moving the second `f' glyph slightly to the right to avoid collision.

Cf.

  https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=22240#c37

The whole, very long Chromium bug report explains issues with German
Fraktur, BTW.

>> As mentioned by Urs, there is even a (semi)automatic solution
>> called `selnolig' which uses a dictionary of German words to find
>> and handle such non-ligatures properly (this is, you don't have to
>> insert "| any more).
>
> Amazing.  IIUC, that requires the /text rendering engine/ to bring
> it's own dictionary?

Well, the TeX engine comes with hyphenation patterns, so why not
having something special for `fi' and `fl' handling, which you can
only resolve with dictionaries?

> (How) does it work if the word is hyphenated at a different
> position?

The massaging of the data happens in multiple passes, if necessary.

> I thought the rendering engine is called with small units of text,
> such as the part before and after the hyphen separately; so the
> context is sent additionally?

TeX normally handles paragraphs as units.


Werner
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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Werner LEMBERG]

>> If for a font "ff" leads to collisions, and the ligature is not
>> correct at that point, is it recommended to insert space or to
>> switch the font?
> 
> Yes, at least for German.

Uh, I mean you should insert space.  Virtually no font resolves this
`properly' today, I reckon.


Werner


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Re: "Generative music" and "Algorithmic composition"

[David Kastrup]

Philip Rhoades  writes:

> David,
>
>
> On 2014-01-17 00:22, David Kastrup wrote:
>> Philip Rhoades  writes:
>>
>>> David,
>>
 So your first statement:

> I get a GUILE error on line 5
>
>   $(let

 was wrong, and my guess

 I don't.  Copy and paste error?

 concerning your use of Paul's converted code was correct.  Like with
 _any_ material prepared for an older version of LilyPond, you have to
 run convert-ly on it before using it.  Which is just what Paul did in
 order to arrive at "his" version.  Yes, this rewrites the Scheme
 expression.
>>>
>>> OK, lesson learned - obviously not the sort of behaviour I am used to
>>> with other languages . .
>>
>> Other languages will also complain about copy and paste errors.
>
>
> It wasn't a copy and paste error - I proved that by redoing it,
> diffing etc - it was ONLY the version issue.

You stated "I get a GUILE error on line 5" with "$(let ..." which was
_not_ the version in the LSR but _only_ the version provided by Paul.
Later on you state that this version worked fine.

>> You don't make things easier for other people if your reports don't
>> match what you are actually doing,
>
>
> That is incorrect, I reported exactly what I did - I got a GUILE error
> (on an old snippet version)

And the reported quoted source code fragment did not match the version
in the LSR but rather the version Paul provided and _which_ _worked_.

> - I probably should have posted the code, then it would have been
> clear straight away - but it wasn't a copy and paste problem.

So why then did you _first_ state that Paul's version did not work,
including a quote of _Paul's_ version rather than the LSR?

_That's_ when I stated I considered this likely a copy&paste error.  And
it apparently was.  Either you did not properly copy&paste Paul's
version when trying it out, or you did not properly copy&paste the
resulting error message when trying (without telling anybody) the LSR
version.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[David Kastrup]

Werner LEMBERG  writes:

>>> If for a font "ff" leads to collisions, and the ligature is not
>>> correct at that point, is it recommended to insert space or to
>>> switch the font?
>> 
>> Yes, at least for German.
>
> Uh, I mean you should insert space.  Virtually no font resolves this
> `properly' today, I reckon.

You are confused about the problem that is being discussed.  What _you_
are talking about is not how to deal with a defective "ff" ligature, but
rather about the typographic reasons to distinguish betweem a _working_
"ff" ligature and two separate "ff" letters when typesetting German
prose.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Alexander Kobel]

On 01/16/2014 03:28 PM, Werner LEMBERG wrote:

[...] As mentioned by Urs, there is even a (semi)automatic solution
called `selnolig' which uses a dictionary of German words to find
and handle such non-ligatures properly (this is, you don't have to
insert "| any more).


Amazing.  IIUC, that requires the /text rendering engine/ to bring
it's own dictionary?


Well, the TeX engine comes with hyphenation patterns, so why not
having something special for `fi' and `fl' handling, which you can
only resolve with dictionaries?  [...]


PEBKAC on my side.  I misread [selnolig] for an optional feature of the 
rendering engine instead of a LaTeX package.  Now it suddenly makes sense...



Thanks,
Alexander

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Werner LEMBERG]

> You are confused about the problem that is being discussed.

Certainly not.

> What _you_ are talking about is not how to deal with a defective
> "ff" ligature, but rather about the typographic reasons to
> distinguish betweem a _working_ "ff" ligature and two separate "ff"
> letters when typesetting German prose.

Correct.  The discussion has shifted slightly.  I was reacting to
Alexander's questions, which are beyond the original software problem.


Werner
c

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Re: kerning/ligatures in opentype fonts

[Alexander Kobel]

On 01/16/2014 03:38 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

Werner LEMBERG  writes:


If for a font "ff" leads to collisions, and the ligature is not
correct at that point, is it recommended to insert space or to
switch the font?


Yes, at least for German.


Uh, I mean you should insert space.  Virtually no font resolves this
`properly' today, I reckon.


You are confused about the problem that is being discussed.  What _you_
are talking about is not how to deal with a defective "ff" ligature, but
rather about the typographic reasons to distinguish betweem a _working_
"ff" ligature and two separate "ff" letters when typesetting German
prose.


Actually that's what I wanted to ask.  Even if I didn't explain it too 
well, Werner succeeded in guessing my intentions...  My question was 
twofold:


1.)  Irregardless of whether a ligature does exist or not, what should I 
do if two letters clash?  (Solution: add space, [even if they just touch 
slightly.  Use with care.])


2. and more important to me)  As a layman, I consider it as a hint to 
trash a font if it has collisions or uneven kerning.  But if this only 
happens for combinations where a ligature exists [but should not be used 
for semantic reasons], is it still a sign of bad design?  (Answer: not 
necessarily.)


Werner, I hope you agree with my short summaries of your helpful 
explanations?



Best,
Alexander

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Re: Error in documentation

[Phil Holmes]

Copying to -bugs for an issue.

--
Phil Holmes


  - Original Message - 
  From: Peter Crighton 
  To: LilyPond Mailing List 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 10:27 PM
  Subject: Error in documentation


  Hello all,
  in the documentation about percussion notation it is said that you need to 
include the Parenthesis_engraver in order to use \parenthesize – 
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-percussion.html#ghost-notes
 This is not true, you do not have to include anything. Also, you do not have 
to add chord brackets.
  Maybe this could be updated?

  --
  Peter Crighton | Musician & Music Engraver based in Mainz/Wiesbaden, Germany
  http://www.petercrighton.de


--


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Re: Error in documentation

[David Kastrup]

"Phil Holmes"  writes:

> Peter Crighton  wrote:
>>
>>
>>   Hello all,
>>   in the documentation about percussion notation it is said that you need to 
>> include the Parenthesis_engraver in order to use \parenthesize – 
>> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-percussion.html#ghost-notes
>>  This is not true, you do not have to include anything. Also, you do not 
>> have to add chord brackets.
>>   Maybe this could be updated?
>
> Copying to -bugs for an issue.

Too late, already fixed this in master and stable/2.18.

-- 
David Kastrup

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string concatenation 2.18 vs 2.16

[Tom van der Hoeven]

under 2.16 there were no errors in this

\version "2.16.2"
tom = "aap " + "noot"
\book {
   \header { title = \tom }
   \relative {a  b c}
}

under 2.18 the expression tom = "aap " + "noot" seems not to be allowed

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Updating Snippets in the LSR when versions are updated

[Philip Rhoades]

People,

After being bitten (unnecessarily) by old code in the LSR and having a 
continuing argument with David about how it came about - I have to ask - 
is there any reason why all the snippets in the LSR can't be 
automatically updated when a new version is introduced?  Surely this 
would not be hard to do?  If the Guile syntax is changing so often, what 
is the point of keeping old code in the LSR?  It is fair enough to tell 
people that they have to convert THEIR OWN code but the people who run 
the LSR, repo should be responsible for keeping that up to date . .


If there is an argument for keeping a snippet in it's original form 
because of historical significance or something - an archive could be 
kept of it.


Just my 2c . .

Regards,

Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades

GPO Box 3411
Sydney NSW  2001
Australia
E-mail:  p...@pricom.com.au


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Re: "Generative music" and "Algorithmic composition"

[Philip Rhoades]

David,


On 2014-01-17 01:28, David Kastrup wrote:

Philip Rhoades  writes:


David,


On 2014-01-17 00:22, David Kastrup wrote:

Philip Rhoades  writes:


David,



So your first statement:


I get a GUILE error on line 5

  $(let


was wrong, and my guess


I don't.  Copy and paste error?


concerning your use of Paul's converted code was correct.  Like 
with
_any_ material prepared for an older version of LilyPond, you have 
to
run convert-ly on it before using it.  Which is just what Paul did 
in

order to arrive at "his" version.  Yes, this rewrites the Scheme
expression.


OK, lesson learned - obviously not the sort of behaviour I am used 
to

with other languages . .


Other languages will also complain about copy and paste errors.



It wasn't a copy and paste error - I proved that by redoing it,
diffing etc - it was ONLY the version issue.


You stated "I get a GUILE error on line 5" with "$(let ..." which was
_not_ the version in the LSR but _only_ the version provided by Paul.
Later on you state that this version worked fine.


You don't make things easier for other people if your reports don't
match what you are actually doing,



That is incorrect, I reported exactly what I did - I got a GUILE error
(on an old snippet version)


And the reported quoted source code fragment did not match the version
in the LSR but rather the version Paul provided and _which_ _worked_.


- I probably should have posted the code, then it would have been
clear straight away - but it wasn't a copy and paste problem.


So why then did you _first_ state that Paul's version did not work,
including a quote of _Paul's_ version rather than the LSR?

_That's_ when I stated I considered this likely a copy&paste error.  
And

it apparently was.  Either you did not properly copy&paste Paul's
version when trying it out, or you did not properly copy&paste the
resulting error message when trying (without telling anybody) the LSR
version.



This is getting silly - I will explain what happened:

- I had previously run your new snippet quite satisfactorily

- I had previously run Paul's changed version quite satisfactorily

- I had forgotten about the convert-ly thing

- I wasn't going to bother about the old version in the LSR when Paul 
mentioned it, but just out of interest, I thought I would give it go - 
it failed with the error - I don't like things not working so I 
persisted


- The quick inspection showed the old version with a "#" and the new 
versions with "$" - so I changed it and tried again - still the same 
error


- Probably hastily, I reported the error

- You said it was probably a cut and paste problem - I knew it wasn't 
but I tried different methods of getting the code but still got the 
error


- Still missing the real issue (and probably annoyed that you suggested 
it was a newbie "who doesn't know how to cut an paste" problem) I 
replied (too hastily again) that it wasn't a cut and paste problem


- You said it must be some problem so I did the diffs - which finally 
showed up the problem with the missing entire line and it's associated 
bracket


So, yes it was a "newbie" problem - but not for the reasons you said.  
So now we have both forgotten something and probably wasted other 
people's time - me with this issue and you by forgetting to put the note 
about version upgrades where it should have been - which I don't think 
should even be necessary - see my other post.


Regards,

Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades

GPO Box 3411
Sydney NSW  2001
Australia
E-mail:  p...@pricom.com.au

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