RE: GDP: Repeats

[Trevor Daniels]

Ralph

As I said earlier, I'd go for the simpler structure:

1.4 Repeats
1.4.1 Repeat syntax
1.4.2 Normal repeats
1.4.3 Manual repeat commands
1.4.4 Tremolo repeats
1.4.5 Measure repeats

since this leaves a further level for subdivision within
each section.

Or, if you prefer your suggested layout:

1.4 Repeats
1.4.1 Repeat syntax
   This is the syntax
   These are the types of repeats supported
1.4.2 Repeated phrases using notated begin and end repeat
signs
   Simple
   Complex %%i.e., with alternative endings
   Manual repeat commands
1.4.3 Repeating written out phrases %%i.e., unfold
1.4.4 Repeated notes and measures %%i.e., "percent" repeats
1.4.5 Tremolo repeats

but you'd need to think of some snappier headings.

Trevor D

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+t.daniels=treda.co.u
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> Graham Percival
> Sent: 26 February 2008 23:26
> To: Palmer, Ralph
> Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: GDP: Repeats
>
>
> On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 08:08:21 -0500
> "Palmer, Ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Unless overridden by popular acclaim, I would
> like to keep the syntax
> > in the section, even if we decide to call it
> something less
> > intimidating to novices than "syntax". There is
> at least one other
> > section with a similar entry (1.2.1.2 Tuplets),
> and I find it
> > clarifying and reassuring.
>
> Err... what?  Tuplets has lots of examples.
>
> > 1.4.Repeats
> > 1.4.1.  Repeat construction
> > 1.4.1.1.Repeat syntax and types of repeats
> > This is the syntax
> > These are the types
> of repeats
> > supported
>
> I don't like having subsections with only a
> single subsubsection
> -- in other words, X.Y.Z.A numbers with only a
> single .A.  If it's
> unavoidable we could do that, but I'd really like
> to avoid them.
>
> > 1.4.2.  Writing repeats
> > 1.4.2.1.Repeated phrases using notated
> begin and end repeat
> > signs
> > Simple
> > Complex %%i.e.,
> with alternative
> > endings Manual repeat commands
>
> All of this inside 1.4.2.1 ?  You're not allowed
> to add any
> smaller portions -- ie there's no 1.4.2.1.1.
>
> Cheers,
> - Graham
>
>
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Re: strange warning

[Mats Bengtsson]

Just as the previous warning you asked about, this is just a warning
telling that LilyPond didn't manage to produce a layout that fulfills
all its design rules. This time it's related to the vertical spacing 
between

the score lines, that ended up slightly too tight. Looking at the output
I don't think it's a problem though and I have never seen any example
where it does, even if you get this warning.

/Mats

hhpmusic wrote:

Hi,
This is the opening of my first grand sonata describing the life of 
the great boatmen in Three Gorges of Yangtze River. After Processing 
the file, the log file has a strange warning sometimes I meet only in 
orchestral output:

warning: Can't fit systems on page -- ignoring between-system-padding
Could someone tell me what's wrong with my file?
Haipeng



 ?? ?? 100 ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? 
?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? 




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=
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School of Electrical Engineering
Royal Institute of Technology (KTH)
SE-100 44  STOCKHOLM
Sweden
Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463 
   Fax:   (+46) 8 790 7260
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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Eyolf Østrem]

On 17.02.2008 (11:41), Valentin Villenave wrote:
> 2008/2/17, David Fedoruk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> > Octave transposition seems a confusing, since transposition in music
> > usually implies that the passage is to be played in a different key.
> > Octave displacement does not change the key.

Or one might turn the argument around and say that the melody is indeed
trans-posed -- placed somewhere else, whereas the negative associations of
dis- is that it's ended up in the wrong place...


In Danish, Swedish, and Norwegian, it would be "oktavering".



> 
> Yes, I'd prefer to avoid "transposition" as well.
> 
> In French, we say "octaviation" (notice the additional "i", it got me
> confused more than once).
> 
> Cheers, Valentin
> 
> 
> ___ lilypond-user mailing
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> 

-- 
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Re: strange termination

[Reinhold Kainhofer]

Am Mittwoch, 27. Februar 2008 schrieb hhpmusic:
>   I downloaded the latest version of Lilypond, and the problems I referred
> to are solved. Thank you! But when processing this file, it suddenly
> terminated, but unlike other termination, it left an incomplete -def.ly.
> Why? 

Because musicxml2ly couldn't properly handle breve and longa notes 
(double-whole and quadruple-whole notes)... I've now fixed this in git, so it 
should be in one of the next 2.11.x releases.

Apparently you are really pushing musicxml2ly to its limit in so many aspects! 
Thanks a lot for this, without you I would have never encountered a lot of 
the problems that you detect.

BTW, the problem with the "infinite loop" is that by default lilypond uses the 
minidom XML parser, which is apparently not very efficient for really large 
files (like yours) and can't handle them properly. There is the --lxml option 
to musicxml2ly, which causes musicxml2ly to use the lxml.etree XML parser 
instead, which is much more memory-efficient and is able to handle your file, 
but which is unfortunately not distributed with python but available as a 
third-party add-on.
I don't know anything about the advantages of minidom over etree (except that 
minidom is included in the python distribution, while lxml.etree is a 
separate module and needs to be installed separately), so I can't really 
judge wheter it would be better to use lxml by default...

Cheers,
Reinhold

-- 
--
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email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/
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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Eyolf,

Or one might turn the argument around and say that the melody is  
indeed
trans-posed -- placed somewhere else, whereas the negative  
associations

of dis- is that it's ended up in the wrong place...


Interesting point...

Really, what we're talking about is a NOTATIONAL SHORTHAND: the notes  
in question aren't actually TRANSPOSED or DISPLACED, just like notes  
in a "treble_8" clef are neither TRANSPOSED nor DISPLACED: they are  
simply NOTATED using a different (shorthand) method.


I suggest, then, that we're seeking a term that better describes all  
these related topics (e.g. "octavation", "transposed" clefs, etc.).


Perhaps "octave indication" or "octave indicator"?
IMO, that accurately describes what it does, without introducing  
misleading -- and, in some cases, incorrect -- concepts like  
"transposition" or "displacement".


Cheers,
Kieren.

p.s. I apologise if I've made too much of the semantics of this  
argument... just trying to help!  =)



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Re: GDP glossary question: complex meters

[Kurt Kroon]

On 2/26/08 5:39 AM, "Palmer, Ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi, Kurt -
> 
> When I brought up "my" definition, it certainly was not intended to be
> exclusive (as in the only definition).

Nor did I perceive it that way.

> I was trying to point out that there was an alternative meaning to polymeter.

Certainly ...

> I have no easy answer to  the problem(s), especially since I think polymeter
> or complex meter can refer to more than time signatures - either initial or
> subsequent.

... which is why I asked the question.

> Are the layered patterns in some West African drumming considered to be
> polymeter, or is that polyrhythm?

That's polyrhythm ... which may simply be polymeter writ small, at the beat
instead of the measure.

> I think western music's recent and rapid exposure to a lot of different
> rhythmic structures, notations, and possibilities have helped create a
> confusing set of terminologies whose definitions haven't settled down yet.

Just wait until I finish the section on proportions (the Renaissance one,
not the usual LilyPond one) -- reading about "time signatures" of 33/9
(triplasuperbipartientetertias) or 51/15 (triplasuperbipartientequintas)
does wonders to expand the mind.

The terminology seems fairly settled to me, but with a lot of redundancy.  I
wanted to remove some of that redundancy from a framework that would be
obvious to the casual musician-observer.

BUT, more importantly, I did NOT intend for this framework to be a
straitjacket.  Folks who specialize in the tals you mentioned in your last
email on the subject will continue to discuss them with *their* terms ...
but when I ask them to explain it to me (a non-Indian), they can say "Oh,
it's a regular sequential polymeter that groups beats in groups of 3+2+ ...
etc."

I hope this clarification helps.

Regards,
Kurt




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Problem with tuplets ... please hep

[eagle136]

Hi,
I am a noob to Lilypond and am very impressed until I tried using tuplets
and am getting an error each time.

The following line within the definition of a melody line context works,
i.e. Lilypond parses it and generates .PDF and .PS files as expected:

\times 2/3 g4 { g g g } r2

However, I do not want g naturals I need g#s (yes within C Major ..), so
I type the following:

\times 2/3 g4 { gis gis gis } r2 

Lilypond reports the following error:
-- Capture Output --
> "U:\LilyPond\usr\bin\lilypond.exe" wart.ly
Processing `wart.ly'
Parsing...
wart.ly:61:23: error: syntax error, unexpected STRING
g4 \times 2/3 {
   gis g g} r4 |

wart.ly:93:8: error: errors found, ignoring music expression

<<

error: failed files: "wart.ly"

> Terminated with exit code 1.

Any ideas what the problem is ?

NB. The second error given above does not appear if I remove the accidental
from the tuplet definition so there is probbaly not a problem on that line


Thanks

Simon
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Problem with tuplets ... please help

[eagle136]

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Hi, 
I am a noob to Lilypond and am very impressed until I tried using tuplets and 
am getting an error each time. 

The following line within the definition of a melody line context works, i.e. 
Lilypond parses it and generates .PDF and .PS files as expected: 

\times 2/3 g4 { g g g } r2 

However, I do not want g naturals I need g#s (yes within C Major ..), so I 
type the following: 

\times 2/3 g4 { gis gis gis } r2 

Lilypond reports the following error: 
-- Capture Output -- 
> "U:\LilyPond\usr\bin\lilypond.exe" wart.ly 
Processing `wart.ly' 
Parsing... 
wart.ly:61:23: error: syntax error, unexpected STRING 
g4 \times 2/3 { 
   gis g g} r4 | 

wart.ly:93:8: error: errors found, ignoring music expression 

<< 

error: failed files: "wart.ly" 

> Terminated with exit code 1. 

Any ideas what the problem is ? 

NB. The second error given above does not appear if I remove the accidental 
from the tuplet definition so there is probbaly not a problem on that line  

Thanks 

Simon




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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Anh Hai Trinh]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:04:35 -0500, Kieren MacMillan  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Hi Eyolf,


Or one might turn the argument around and say that the melody is indeed
trans-posed -- placed somewhere else, whereas the negative associations
of dis- is that it's ended up in the wrong place...


Interesting point...

Really, what we're talking about is a NOTATIONAL SHORTHAND: the notes in  
question aren't actually TRANSPOSED or DISPLACED, just like notes in a  
"treble_8" clef are neither TRANSPOSED nor DISPLACED: they are simply  
NOTATED using a different (shorthand) method.



I think you are mistaken here, a concert A written in any clef would sound  
with f = 440Hz, whereas a written concert A with a 8va bracket would sound  
with f = 880Hz. Anything sounding at a different interval than what is  
notated is called transposition in orchestration books. I believe the  
correct term, if there need be one, would be "octave transposition".


--AT


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Re: GDP: NR 1.1 comment

[Till Rettig]

Mats Bengtsson schrieb:

Quoting Till Rettig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


Hi,

I just noticed that the staff contexts of the examples in 1.1.3.5 are 
PianoStaff. In 1.6 there is only mentioned GrandStaff. Which one is 
the preferred one to be used? I would mention both in 1.6, but I 
think we should develop guidelines which context names to use. Maybe 
the PianoStaff is (at least to others than English native speakers) 
more understandable? So the context would be called PianoStaff in 
1.6.1 but I would also mention that there is a GrandStaff context?

So far I have understood that they are both equal. Is this true?

In version 2.11, the only difference between the two is that 
PianoStaff contains the instrument name engraver. In version 2.10
and earlier, there were more differences. The PianoStaff then produced 
a fixed distance between the staves, since the cross-staff

slurs and beams didn't work otherwise. This limitation has been fixed
in 2.11.
Ok, good to know. So PianoStaff should maybe be the default, so nobody 
will be wondering why the instrument name won't show up...

What for is the GrandStaff then?

Till


  /Mats




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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Anh Hai Trinh]

Octave transposition seems a confusing, since transposition in music
usually implies that the passage is to be played in a different key.
Octave displacement does not change the key.



According to Harvard dict. of music 4th ed.:

Transposition. the rewriting or performance of music at a pitch other  
than the original one.


It does not imply change of key in all contexts, keys have meaning only in  
tonal music anyway.


--AT


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Re: Problem with tuplets ... please hep

[Mark Knoop]

Hi Simon,

Hope you're enjoying using Lilypond.

On Wed, 2008-02-27 at 08:22 -0800, eagle136 wrote:
> Hi,
> I am a noob to Lilypond and am very impressed until I tried using tuplets
> and am getting an error each time.
> 
> The following line within the definition of a melody line context works,
> i.e. Lilypond parses it and generates .PDF and .PS files as expected:

I think your problem is actually not related to the g-sharp at all. The
\times construct takes just two arguments: the first is the ratio (2/3
as you have) and the second is the list of notes to be enclosed in the
tuplet.

Try this:

\times 2/3 { g4 g g } r2

If you need another crotchet before the triplet, then that goes in front
of \times:

g4 \times 2/3 { g g g } r2

Here you can omit the 4 in the tuplet as lilypond is already working in
crotchets.

Hope this helps.

-- 
Mark Knoop


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Re: Problem with tuplets ... please help

[Reinhold Kainhofer]

Am Mittwoch, 27. Februar 2008 schrieb eagle136:
> Processing `wart.ly'
> Parsing...
> wart.ly:61:23: error: syntax error, unexpected STRING
> g4 \times 2/3 {
>gis g g} r4 |

Without the actual file to look at, it's hard to give a proper problem 
analysis/solution (my crystal ball broke last week ;-) Are you maybe using 
\include "english.ly"
in your file? If so, the syntax for sharps is gsharp, not gis (and gflat 
instead of ges)! You can also use the short form gs/gf instead.

Cheers,
Reinhold

-- 
--
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email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/
 * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/
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Re: Problem with tuplets ... please help

[James E. Bailey]

On 27.02.2008, at 18:21, Reinhold Kainhofer wrote:


Am Mittwoch, 27. Februar 2008 schrieb eagle136:

Processing `wart.ly'
Parsing...
wart.ly:61:23: error: syntax error, unexpected STRING
   g4 \times 2/3 {
  gis g g} r4 |


Without the actual file to look at, it's hard to give a proper problem
analysis/solution (my crystal ball broke last week ;-) Are you maybe  
using

   \include "english.ly"
in your file? If so, the syntax for sharps is gsharp, not gis (and  
gflat

instead of ges)! You can also use the short form gs/gf instead.

Cheers,
Reinhold

--
--
Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna University of Technology, Austria
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/
* Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/
* K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org, KOrganizer maintainer
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Another way of answering that is, lilypond uses "english.ly" by  
default, so unless you specify \include "deutsch.ly", you'll get  
errors like that (I forget to put that in my files all the time).




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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Damian leGassick]

agreed, octave transposition is what i call it - the notation is  
transposed


d


On 27 Feb 2008, at 16:37, Anh Hai Trinh wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:04:35 -0500, Kieren MacMillan <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:



Hi Eyolf,

Or one might turn the argument around and say that the melody is  
indeed
trans-posed -- placed somewhere else, whereas the negative  
associations

of dis- is that it's ended up in the wrong place...


Interesting point...

Really, what we're talking about is a NOTATIONAL SHORTHAND: the  
notes in question aren't actually TRANSPOSED or DISPLACED, just  
like notes in a "treble_8" clef are neither TRANSPOSED nor  
DISPLACED: they are simply NOTATED using a different (shorthand)  
method.



I think you are mistaken here, a concert A written in any clef would  
sound with f = 440Hz, whereas a written concert A with a 8va bracket  
would sound with f = 880Hz. Anything sounding at a different  
interval than what is notated is called transposition in  
orchestration books. I believe the correct term, if there need be  
one, would be "octave transposition".


--AT


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Re: Problem with tuplets ... please help

[Graham Percival]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:29:32 +0100
"James E. Bailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Another way of answering that is, lilypond uses "english.ly" by  
> default, so unless you specify \include "deutsch.ly", you'll get  
> errors like that (I forget to put that in my files all the time).

False.  Look at the docs -- we use gis all the time, and never
gsharp.  "english.ly" is definitely *not* the default.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Trevor Bača]

Yes, absolutely.

I had suggested that earlier in the thread but then the idea came up that
transposition somehow implies a change of key. It most certainly does not.

And "displacement" is wholly wrong to my ears. Graphical noteheads can
displace (to the left or right in the interval of a second). But not
pitches. Pitches moving around is "transposition" in English, whether
tonally or atonally or whatever.

"Octave transposition" would have to be the English term here.





On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Damian leGassick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> agreed, octave transposition is what i call it - the notation *is*transposed
> d
>
>
> On 27 Feb 2008, at 16:37, Anh Hai Trinh wrote:
>
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:04:35 -0500, Kieren MacMillan <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Eyolf,
>
>
> Or one might turn the argument around and say that the melody is indeed
>
> trans-posed -- placed somewhere else, whereas the negative associations
>
> of dis- is that it's ended up in the wrong place...
>
>
> Interesting point...
>
>
> Really, what we're talking about is a NOTATIONAL SHORTHAND: the notes in
> question aren't actually TRANSPOSED or DISPLACED, just like notes in a
> "treble_8" clef are neither TRANSPOSED nor DISPLACED: they are simply
> NOTATED using a different (shorthand) method.
>
>
>
> I think you are mistaken here, a concert A written in any clef would sound
> with f = 440Hz, whereas a written concert A with a 8va bracket would sound
> with f = 880Hz. Anything sounding at a different interval than what is
> notated is called transposition in orchestration books. I believe the
> correct term, if there need be one, would be "octave transposition".
>
> --AT
>
>
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>


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Re: Problem with tuplets ... please help

[Joseph Wakeling]

James E. Bailey wrote:
> Another way of answering that is, lilypond uses "english.ly" by default,
> so unless you specify \include "deutsch.ly", you'll get errors like that
> (I forget to put that in my files all the time).

Is that true?  In mine (2.10.25, installed with Ubuntu) it's certainly
not the case and the (Dutch) -is/-es notation is the default asked for.
 The documentation for 2.11 on the Lilypond website also gives the Dutch
-is/-es forms as default (and, for quarter-tones, -ih/-eh -- is there an
english.ly version of this, à la -qs/-qf?)

If english.ly's syntax is to be the default (which makes sense to me,
but then, I'm biased:-), the documentation needs substantial rewriting.

By the way, I'm chuffed to see that 2.11 has fixed the quarter-tone
notation to use consistent (and standard-ish) symbols for the 1/4 and
3/4 flats.  Now  (ever in search of perfection.) is it possible
to switch to the arrow-on-accidental notation? :-)

-- Joe


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Re: staff section

[Till Rettig]

Trevor Daniels schrieb:

Hi Till

Might the tempo indication and metronome marks be better placed in the Rhythm 
section?  If you think so let me know, as I'm working on Rhythms right now.

Trevor D
  

Hi,
I think we should leave it as it is, after all it is nothing to do with 
_rythms_ specifically to indicate the tempo. I think it relates more 
with markup questions so I will see how to link to that section and 
explain only the relevant stuff directly related to the placement of 
context elements to a staff (as I would see tempo and instrument name...)


Till
  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+t.daniels=treda.co.u
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Till Rettig
Sent: 24 February 2008 13:19
To: lilypond-user Mailinglist
Subject: GDP: staff section


Hi GDP-helpers!

I started now finally with the staff section of NR1.
As with the repeat section, I would also suggest 
some new grouping.

The order of the section is now the following:

# 1.6 Staff notation
* 1.6.1 Displaying staves
  o 1.6.1.1 System start delimiters
  o 1.6.1.2 Staff symbol
  o 1.6.1.3 Hiding staves
* 1.6.2 Writing parts
  o 1.6.2.1 Metronome marks
  o 1.6.2.2 Instrument names
  o 1.6.2.3 Quoting other voices
  o 1.6.2.4 Formatting cue notes

I was first wondering why "writing parts" is here 
at all, but I guess 
this should not be discussed too broad now, 
because it had been 
discuessed when we decided about the GDP chapter 
order. I was just 
thinking that "combining parts" and "writing 
parts" would be together 
something like a "orchestral" chapter -- even 
though you use it also in 
chamber music and the like. So I hope this 
grouping as it now is is 
intuitive enough to a new user that he figures 
out where to look for.


The 1.6.1 section is really unevenly distributed 
over the three 
subsubsections, I was thinking of introducing a 
new subsection: 
modifying staves which would contain most of 
6.1.1 and 6.1.2

So the new section model could be:

1.6 Staff notation
1.6.1 Displaying/writing/setting staves
   1.6.1.1 Initiating a new staff (short 
basics, also one sentence 
about \new and \context, here should also go the 
example about starting 
stopping additional staves)
   1.6.1.2 Grouping staves (about system 
start delimiters

   (maybe: 1.6.1.3: Deeper nesting of staff groups)
1.6.2 Modifying staves
   1.6.2.1 Staff symbol, (and how to modify 
the different parameters)

   1.6.2.2 Ossia staves
   1.6.2.3 Hiding staves
1.6.3 Writing parts
   ...

I have concentrated for now on this part leaving 
the parts section 
alone, I want to come back to it only when the 
first part is in better 
condition.
There are still some general questions for the 
parts section for which I 
would like to hear some feedback:


-Why is the metronome mark described here? It 
applies as well to a whole 
score (where it would be agreedly on the top 
stave...), and I think it 
should go together with a general description on 
how to write tempo 
indications (and also with a workaround to align 
the indication with the 
key or the meter, not with the first note of the 
first bar). Where could 
this section go?
It is currently discussed in text marks, 1.8.1.4, 
but meant to write 
rehearsal marks, not tempo indications.


-I think it is actually almost a bug in lilypond 
that there is no easy 
way to center the beginning of a tempo 
indictation on the key symbol, so 
I think it is important to provide at least an 
workaround clearly marked 
as such for this purpose.


-We see the parts section as the sections that 
explains everything 
general about single parts -- so in this sense 
the metronome mark 
belongs here and also the tempo indication. But 
to me (and my German 
ears) the section caption points at preparing 
parts for each instrument 
of a bigger score. So I think we should change 
this section's caption. 
Ideas?


-To me there is a distinction between the two 
first subsubsections 
(metronome marks and instrument names) and the 
two last (quoting voices 
and cue notes): the first two I would see more 
generally apllying to 
staves for each instrument/voice, the two last 
are what I understand by 
the word "part", mainly concerned about the case 
where one has only 
one's own part and needs to get some context into 
it. So I could even 
imagine still a new subsection:


1.6.3 Additions to specific staves
1.6.3.1 tempo indication
1.6.3.2 metronome mark
1.6.3.3 instrument name
1.6.4 Adding context to a single part
1.6.4.1 quoting
1.6.4.2 cue notes

But this is only a first thought.

Greetings
Till
  



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Re: Problem with tuplets ... please help

[Joseph Wakeling]

Reinhold Kainhofer wrote:
> Without the actual file to look at, it's hard to give a proper problem 
> analysis/solution (my crystal ball broke last week ;-) Are you maybe using 
> \include "english.ly"
> in your file? If so, the syntax for sharps is gsharp, not gis (and gflat 
> instead of ges)! You can also use the short form gs/gf instead.

Indeed, I reproduce the reported error message if I use
\include "english.ly" but then use the -is/-es notation for sharp/flat.

If Simon writes,

g4 \times 2/3 { gs gs gs } r2

he should get the correct output.  Alternatively, just delete the line
\include "english.ly".  Your call. :-)

Contra to Mark's comment it's not to do with the tuplet although I agree
it's good to include rhythmic values _within_ the tuplet just as a
safeguard.



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Re: Problem with tuplets ... please help

[James E. Bailey]

On 27.02.2008, at 18:44, Graham Percival wrote:


On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:29:32 +0100
"James E. Bailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Another way of answering that is, lilypond uses "english.ly" by
default, so unless you specify \include "deutsch.ly", you'll get
errors like that (I forget to put that in my files all the time).


False.  Look at the docs -- we use gis all the time, and never
gsharp.  "english.ly" is definitely *not* the default.

Cheers,
- Graham



Ah, true enough. I just assumed because it always errored on "h" that  
it was english.



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error?

[James E. Bailey]

I've got a minor problem. It's incredibly difficult to reproduce  
because of how it occurs, but I've got a little screenshot to show it.

http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/569c91276e.jpg
Basically, the double-sharp is a bit too close to the time signature  
for my tastes, and I'm wondering how I should start trying to change  
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Re: page breaks related to header size

[Risto Vääräniemi]

On 27/02/2008, Risto Vääräniemi wrote:
>  Sometimes the LP still seems a bit pessimistic about fitting the
>  systems on a desired number of pages. Setting between-system-padding
>  to zero and adjusting the between-system-space instead usually works.

Speak of the Devil... :-)

Today I wrote a piece of music that demonstrates this behaviour.
However, this time I cannot get one system on a previous page even if
I set the padding to zero (or to a small negative value – tried -5
mm). The first page is also a bit liberally spaced but the second page
is the one with real problems. There's a huge gap between the last
system and the end of the page. If you have look at the first system
on the third page, you notice that it should fit there quite easily.

If I interpreted the spacing annotations correctly there's 58.44 mm
space left and the Y-extent of the system in question is just 36.04
mm. The extent-estimate is a bit bigger: 42.36 mm but that should also
be OK by me.

Any tips? If I try to create a minimal example the effect most likely
disappears. I probably must try to do that, though.

-Risto
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Fingering inside staff

[Francisco Vila]

Hello all,
Is it possible to place fingerings inside the staff (or outside, but
just next to the notehead), and at a maximum distance of the notehead
of, say, two staff spaces?

I would like to set this voice-wide, not for a single fingering.

Thank you,
-- 
Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain)
http://www.paconet.org


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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Kieren MacMillan]

On 2008-Feb-27, at 10:51, Anh Hai Trinh wrote:


Octave transposition seems a confusing, since transposition in music
usually implies that the passage is to be played in a different key.
Octave displacement does not change the key.



According to Harvard dict. of music 4th ed.:

Transposition. the rewriting or performance of music at a pitch  
other than the original one.


To my reading, this confirms exactly what I was saying: an  
"octavated" passage is NOT transposed, since the pitch is neither  
rewritten nor performed at a pitch other than the original one. It's  
simply that the (meaning/location of the) CLEF itself is altered by  
the octavation indicator.


In other words, consider the following snippet:

%%%  BEGIN SNIPPET
\version "2.11.37"
\include "english.ly"

musicClef = \relative
{
f e d c \clef bass bf a g f
}

musicOct = \relative
{
f e d c #(set-octavation -1) bf a g f
}

\score
{
<<
\musicClef
\musicOct
>>
}
%%%  END SNIPPET

It appears to me that you're saying the CLEF version of this is NOT  
"transposition", whereas the OCTAVATION version IS "transposition".


Am I correctly inferring your meaning?
If so, I'll warn you that you'll have a very hard time convincing  
me.  ;-)


Cheers,
Kieren.


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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Kieren MacMillan]

I'll warn you that you'll have a very hard time convincing me.  ;-)


p.s.

Perhaps the best way to convince me is to clarify the difference --  
in terms of how it's presented in the Lilypond documentation --  
between the "octave transposition" represented by


\transpose c c'/c, { a b c d e f g c }

and the "octave transposition" represented by

#(set-octavation +/- 1) a b c d e f g c

Thanks,
Kieren.


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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi all,

Even more to the (semantic?) point, the following two are IDENTICAL  
with respect to pitch:


\version "2.11.37"
\include "english.ly"

musicClef = \relative
{
\clef "treble" f e d c
\clef "treble_8" bf a g f
}

musicOct = \relative
{
f e d c
#(set-octavation -1) bf a g f
}

\score
{
<<
\musicClef
\musicOct
>>
}

In NEITHER case are the PITCHES "transposed" in any way -- in both  
cases, the PITCHES are identical... and the same as "the original".


What's happening here is that, in Version #1 (the clef change) we're  
explicitly showing that the notation is in a different clef, whereas  
in Version #2 (octavation) we're using a shorthand to transpose the  
CLEF ITSELF (while leaving the pitches exactly where they are)!


Therefore, I suggest something like "Clef transposition and  
octavation", or something like that, so that it's clear that the  
PITCHES are not being transposed in any way.


Cheers,
Kieren.


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Re: error?

[Wilbert Berendsen]

Op woensdag 27 februari 2008, schreef James E. Bailey:
> I've got a minor problem. It's incredibly difficult to reproduce
> because of how it occurs, but I've got a little screenshot to show it.
> http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/569c91276e.jpg
> Basically, the double-sharp is a bit too close to the time signature
> for my tastes, and I'm wondering how I should start trying to change
> this.

Which LilyPond version are you using?

best regards,
Wilbert Berendsen

-- 
http://www.wilbertberendsen.nl/
LilyKDE: http://lilykde.googlecode.com/


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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Damian leGassick]

semantically i completely disagree... ;--)

in both cases the written pitches ARE transposed (sound) down an  
octave, as explicitly indicated by the 8_clef in the version, and the  
8vb indication in the second. indeed, the whole raison d'etre of those  
indications is to show that the displayed pitch is transposed an  
octave lower.


in the case of a 'transposing at the octave' instrument such as  
piccolo or double bass, the clef change or 8va/b sign is implied and  
simply omitted as a convenience.


agreed the sounding pitch in each case is the same, but this is a  
notational, not a sounding issue.


d

On 27 Feb 2008, at 19:34, Kieren MacMillan wrote:


Hi all,

Even more to the (semantic?) point, the following two are IDENTICAL  
with respect to pitch:


\version "2.11.37"
\include "english.ly"

musicClef = \relative
{
\clef "treble" f e d c
\clef "treble_8" bf a g f
}

musicOct = \relative
{
f e d c
#(set-octavation -1) bf a g f
}

\score
{
<<
\musicClef
\musicOct
>>
}

In NEITHER case are the PITCHES "transposed" in any way -- in both  
cases, the PITCHES are identical... and the same as "the original".


What's happening here is that, in Version #1 (the clef change) we're  
explicitly showing that the notation is in a different clef, whereas  
in Version #2 (octavation) we're using a shorthand to transpose the  
CLEF ITSELF (while leaving the pitches exactly where they are)!


Therefore, I suggest something like "Clef transposition and  
octavation", or something like that, so that it's clear that the  
PITCHES are not being transposed in any way.


Cheers,
Kieren.


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Re: Problem with tuplets ... please hep

[Mark Knoop]

Hi Simon,

Hope you're enjoying using Lilypond.

On Wed, 2008-02-27 at 08:22 -0800, eagle136 wrote:
> Hi,
> I am a noob to Lilypond and am very impressed until I tried using tuplets
> and am getting an error each time.
> 
> The following line within the definition of a melody line context works,
> i.e. Lilypond parses it and generates .PDF and .PS files as expected:

I think your problem is actually not related to the g-sharp at all. The
\times construct takes just two arguments: the first is the ratio (2/3
as you have) and the second is the list of notes to be enclosed in the
tuplet.

Try this:

\times 2/3 { g4 g g } r2

If you need another crotchet before the triplet, then that goes in front
of \times:

g4 \times 2/3 { g g g } r2

Here you can omit the 4 in the tuplet as lilypond is already working in
crotchets.

Hope this helps.


-- 
Mark Knoop
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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\book output file name

[Anh Hai Trinh]

I'm having two \book blocks to produce a full score file and parts file.  
Is it possible to suffix each book output filename specifically, instead  
of the generic "-1", "-2", etc. ?


--AT


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Re: \book output file name

[Anh Hai Trinh]

I'm having two \book blocks to produce a full score file and parts file.  
Is it possible to suffix each book output filename specifically, instead  
of the generic "-1", "-2", etc. ?


--AT



I figured I should factor out the common stuff and putting the \book block  
into separate .ly files.



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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Damian (et al):


semantically i completely disagree... ;--)


Excellent! I like a good discussion...  =)

in the case of a 'transposing at the octave' instrument such as  
piccolo or double bass,
the clef change or 8va/b sign is implied and simply omitted as a  
convenience.


Aside: we (all) should immediately stop doing that -- we should start  
writing ALL instruments with "transposed clefs", to be clear.  ;-)


Regardless, the question (for me) still comes down to the way we are  
presenting "transposition" in the documentation. Does "transposition"  
mean taking a set of pitches and changing the pitches that we want to  
hear (e.g., \transpose c g { a b c d }) or leaving the pitches we  
want to hear as is (explicitly, \transpose c c { a b c d}) and  
*notating* them in a non-trivial/non-obvious way?


One process (transposition) alters the original pitches, the other  
(clef *or* octavation) is simply a notational convention -- two very  
different results, IMO.


Most importantly to the current issue, when looking in the Lilypond  
documentation for information on ottava brackets:

1. I would never search for "transposition";
2. The heading "octave transposition" is less accurately  
descriptive of the intended content than "ottava brackets".


Our goal in all of this should be to IMPROVE the documentation, not  
make it less clear.


Cheers,
Kieren.


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RE:GDP: What term do you use?

[Palmer, Ralph]

Head tucked in, I venture into the battlefield.

+

Anh Hai Trinh wrote:

I think you are mistaken here, a concert A written in any clef would
sound  
with f = 440Hz, whereas a written concert A with a 8va bracket would
sound  
with f = 880Hz. Anything sounding at a different interval than what is  
notated is called transposition in orchestration books. I believe the  
correct term, if there need be one, would be "octave transposition".

--AT



Kieren's interpretation makes more sense to me. A "written concert A
with a 8va bracket" is, in fact, no longer a written concert A. It's now
a pitch one octave above a concert A. The ottava bracket is part of the
notation, as are sharps, flats, and clef signs. The placement of concert
A in tenor clef is different from the placement of concert A in treble
clef, agreed? And if a piece of music which begins in treble clef has a
tenor clef inserted, any notated concert A following the tenor clef will
still sound at 440 Hz. The ottava bracket is simply part of the
notation, not a transposition.

My two cents.

Ralph

+
Ralph Palmer, CEM
Energy/Administrative Coordinator
Keene State College
Keene, NH 03435-2502
Phone: 603-358-2230
Cell: 603-209-2903
Fax: 603-358-2456
[EMAIL PROTECTED]







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Re: \book output file name

[Mats Bengtsson]

Anh Hai Trinh wrote:

I'm having two \book blocks to produce a full score file and parts 
file.  Is it possible to suffix each book output filename 
specifically, instead  of the generic "-1", "-2", etc. ?


--AT




I figured I should factor out the common stuff and putting the \book 
block  into separate .ly files.



Note that then there's no need for any explicit \book block at all.

  /Mats


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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Damian leGassick]

the pragmatic 'what would i look for in the index?' approach is going  
to have to arbitrate here




   1. I would never search for "transposition";


absolutely, i'd look for octave ottava 8va or 8vb

Aside: we (all) should immediately stop doing that -- we should  
start writing ALL instruments with "transposed clefs", to be  
clear.  ;-)


agreed, i always use the 8_clefs

but, to be fussy, don't you mean 'transposing clefs'?

d


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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Trevor Bača]

On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Kieren MacMillan <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Damian (et al):
>
> > semantically i completely disagree... ;--)
>
> Excellent! I like a good discussion...  =)
>
> > in the case of a 'transposing at the octave' instrument such as
> > piccolo or double bass,
> > the clef change or 8va/b sign is implied and simply omitted as a
> > convenience.
>
> Aside: we (all) should immediately stop doing that -- we should start
> writing ALL instruments with "transposed clefs", to be clear.  ;-)
>
> Regardless, the question (for me) still comes down to the way we are
> presenting "transposition" in the documentation. Does "transposition"
> mean taking a set of pitches and changing the pitches that we want to
> hear (e.g., \transpose c g { a b c d }) or leaving the pitches we
> want to hear as is (explicitly, \transpose c c { a b c d}) and
> *notating* them in a non-trivial/non-obvious way?
>
> One process (transposition) alters the original pitches, the other
> (clef *or* octavation) is simply a notational convention -- two very
> different results, IMO.
>
> Most importantly to the current issue, when looking in the Lilypond
> documentation for information on ottava brackets:
> 1. I would never search for "transposition";
> 2. The heading "octave transposition" is less accurately
> descriptive of the intended content than "ottava brackets".
>
> Our goal in all of this should be to IMPROVE the documentation, not
> make it less clear.


Ah, I agree with Kieren here. FWIW, to me the act of transposing something
means taking some pitches and moving them all either up or down by some
interval; there're at least chromatic and diatonic flavors of this and what
they both have in common is the act moving some source material up or down
by some amount. When do we transpose? We transpose when we write out parts
for transposing instruments (into another key). We transpose when we
sequence stuff in Baroque (or quasi-Baroque) passages within a piece (not
necessary into another key or even tonic region, we just transpose a couple
of times to get somewhere else harmonically). And we transpose when we
compose, possibly moving sets or collections of pitches around using the
abstract transposition operator T_n beloved of American pitchclass theory.

None of which has anything to do with ottava spanners. Or with "octavated"
(caveat: not an English word) clefs. So while both an ottava spanners and an
octavated clefs most certainly do effect "octave transposition" (which is
absolutely the right phrase here), I would never check the docs for
"transposition" of any sort when looking up ottava spanners and octavated
clefs. I would check for "ottava (spanners)" and "clefs".

I think I've lost the point of this thread. To me it seems completely
reasonable to talk about "transposition" when referring to \transpose, to
talk about "ottava spanners" when talking about ottava spanners, and to lump
octavated clefs into the "clefs" section since "octavated clefs" isn't a
phrase that's available in English.

The confusion here must be between the graphic *symbols* for things (like
ottava spanners and clefs) and the musical *effects* of those things (ie,
octave transposition). In general the names of the symbols are probably much
more widely agreed upon than the names of the abstract processes those
symbols effect.



-- 
Trevor Bača
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Problem with tuplets ... please help

[eagle136]

James E. Bailey-2 wrote:
> 
> 
> On 27.02.2008, at 18:44, Graham Percival wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:29:32 +0100
>> "James E. Bailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> Another way of answering that is, lilypond uses "english.ly" by
>>> default, so unless you specify \include "deutsch.ly", you'll get
>>> errors like that (I forget to put that in my files all the time).
>>
>> False.  Look at the docs -- we use gis all the time, and never
>> gsharp.  "english.ly" is definitely *not* the default.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> - Graham
> 
> 
> Ah, true enough. I just assumed because it always errored on "h" that  
> it was english.
> 
> 
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> 
> 

Thank you s much!  You were quite right I was including 'english.ly', or
rather the template I was using was using this and as it was the first time
I had required an accidental the error cropped up.  I am very grateful. 
Such lists are a wonderful thing!  I hope I will be able to help someone
else out when I have got to grips with this program 
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Problem-with-tuplets-...-please-help-tp15717020p15723150.html
Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



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Re: \book output file name

[Reinhold Kainhofer]

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Hash: SHA1

Am Mittwoch, 27. Februar 2008 schrieb Anh Hai Trinh:
> I'm having two \book blocks to produce a full score file and parts file.
> Is it possible to suffix each book output filename specifically, instead
> of the generic "-1", "-2", etc. ?

http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=389

Cheers,
Reinhold

- -- 
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email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/
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=fr+u
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Text script below spanner?

[Rune Zedeler]

How do I move the text script below the cresc spanner?
Setting script-priority do not work.

\relative c'' {
  f^\< g^"Flying!" c f\!
}

-Rune


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Re: Text script below spanner?

[Risto Vääräniemi]

On 27/02/2008, Rune Zedeler wrote:
> How do I move the text script below the cresc spanner?
>  Setting script-priority do not work.

I've been wondering pretty much the same thing and I ended up using
extra-offset, i.e., lowering one thing and raising another. It would
be nice to know if there's a better solution, though. :-)

-Risto


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Re: Text script below spanner?

[Rune Zedeler]

Rune Zedeler skrev:

\relative c'' {
  f^\< g^"Flying!" c f\!
}


Whoops forgot to attach image.

-Rune
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Re: Text script below spanner?

[Mats Bengtsson]

See section "Vertical collision avoidance" in the 2.11 manual.

  /Mats

Rune Zedeler wrote:


Rune Zedeler skrev:


\relative c'' {
  f^\< g^"Flying!" c f\!
}






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Re: Text script below spanner?

[Rune Zedeler]

Mats Bengtsson skrev:

See section "Vertical collision avoidance" in the 2.11 manual.


Ah thanks!
Perhaps we should think about a better name for that section.
The title is correct - it describes how lilypond internally avoids 
vertical collisions. But when you do not see a collision on your score 
then you do not read a section about avoiding collisions.


-Rune


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Re: Text script below spanner?

[Rune Zedeler]

Rune Zedeler skrev:

Perhaps we should think about a better name for that section.


Or at least, add a "see also 5.5.5 Vertical collision avoidance" from 
1.8.1.2 Text scripts.

I think that would do it, actually.

-Rune


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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Brett Duncan]

Trevor Bača wrote:
None of which has anything to do with ottava spanners. Or with 
"octavated" (caveat: not an English word) clefs. So while both an ottava 
spanners and an octavated clefs most certainly do effect "octave 
transposition" (which is absolutely the right phrase here), I would 
never check the docs for "transposition" of any sort when looking up 
ottava spanners and octavated clefs. I would check for "ottava 
(spanners)" and "clefs".


I agree - I would look for 'ottava' or 'octave', but not for 
'transposition', and I expect this would be the case for most users.


The term "octave clefs" crops up in many places on the 'Net, and while 
that doesn't prove anything, maybe that simple term would suffice - it 
certainly sounds more natural (to my ear at least) than "octavated".


Just a thought.

Brett



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Re: Text script below spanner?

[Mats Bengtsson]

Rune Zedeler wrote:


Rune Zedeler skrev:


Perhaps we should think about a better name for that section.



Or at least, add a "see also 5.5.5 Vertical collision avoidance" from 
1.8.1.2 Text scripts.

I think that would do it, actually.


Then, you should add the corresponding links from all other
objects that appear outside staffs, such as dynamics, piano pedals,
bar numbers, rehersal marks, to mention a few.

  /Mats


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Re: Text script below spanner?

[Graham Percival]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 23:26:19 +0100
Mats Bengtsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Rune Zedeler wrote:
> 
> > Rune Zedeler skrev:
> >
> >> Perhaps we should think about a better name for that section.
> >
> >
> > Or at least, add a "see also 5.5.5 Vertical collision avoidance"
> > from 1.8.1.2 Text scripts.
> > I think that would do it, actually.
> 
> Then, you should add the corresponding links from all other
> objects that appear outside staffs, such as dynamics, piano pedals,
> bar numbers, rehersal marks, to mention a few.

Agreed.

Rune, have you read the new LM 4 in detail?  If you haven't, please
do so now.  I know that you're an experienced user and it sucks to
be told to read the newbie stuff, but this would *really* help our
documentation.

After you've read LM 4 in detail, let us know if LM 4 covers this
item.  If not, please suggest where this info (or a link) should
be added.
(Trevor: this is a general enough concern)

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Fingering inside staff

[Mats Bengtsson]

Please read the section on fingering again, especially
the part on fingeringOrientations. Note that these only
work when the notes are part of a chord. If you want it
to happen on a single note, you therefore have to make
it a single note chord, such as 8

  /Mats

Francisco Vila wrote:


Hello all,
Is it possible to place fingerings inside the staff (or outside, but
just next to the notehead), and at a maximum distance of the notehead
of, say, two staff spaces?

I would like to set this voice-wide, not for a single fingering.

Thank you,
 




--
=
Mats Bengtsson
Signal Processing
Signals, Sensors and Systems
Royal Institute of Technology
SE-100 44  STOCKHOLM
Sweden
Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463 
   Fax:   (+46) 8 790 7260
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe
=



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publish separate drum exercises in one pdf file

[ismaehkloa]

I am transcribing my daughter's hand written drum exercises into lilypond.
I'd love to be able to have each week's exercises on one pdf page.
I am working in windows and have problems running lilypond-book (I think).
I can do nice individual pdfs and pngs, just not merge them onto one pdf.

Exercise one

\version "2.10.0"
include "NotationXBig.ly"
#(define mydrums '((bassdrum default #f -3)(sidestick cross #f 1)(snare
default #f 1)(closedhihat cross "stopped" 4)(hihat cross #f 4)(openhihat
cross "open" 4)(pedalhihat cross #f -4)(ridecymbal cross #f 5)(cowbell cross
#f 0)  
(crashcymbal cross #f 5)(highfloortom default #f -1)(lowmidtom default #f
2)(himidtom default #f 3)(losidestick xcircle #f 1)))

up = \drummode { \override Beam #'positions = #'(5 . 5) hh16^\markup {
\column { "R" \line { " " } } } sn16^\markup { \column { "L" \line { " " } }
} hh16^\markup { \column { "R" \line { " " } } } sn16^\markup { \column {
"L" \line { " >" } } } hh16^\markup { \column { "R" \line { " " } } }
sn16^\markup { \column { "L" \line { " " } } } hh16^\markup { \column { "R"
\line { " " } } } sn16^\markup { \column { "L" \line { " " } } }
hh16^\markup { \column { "R" \line { " " } } } sn16^\markup { \column { "L"
\line { " " } } } hh16^\markup { \column { "R" \line { " " } } }
sn16^\markup { \column { "L" \line { " " } } } sn16^\markup { \column { "R"
\line { " >" } } } sn16^\markup { \column { "L" \line { " " } } }
hh16^\markup { \column { "R" \line { " " } } } sn16^\markup { \column { "L"
\line { " " } } }  }
down = \drummode { \override Beam #'positions = #'(-4 . -4) bd4 r8 bd8 bd4
r4  }
\score {
   \new DrumStaff \with {
fontSize = #3
\override StaffSymbol #'staff-space = #(magstep 3)
}
   <<
  \set DrumStaff.drumStyleTable = #(alist->hash-table mydrums)
  \override DrumStaff.TimeSignature #'style = #'()
  \new DrumVoice  { \voiceOne \up}
  \new DrumVoice  { \voiceTwo   \down  }
   >>
\layout {
\context{}
}
\midi {
\context {
  \Score
 tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment 80 4)
  }
}
}


Exercise two

\version "2.10.0"
\include "NotationXBig.ly"
#(define mydrums '((bassdrum default #f -3)(sidestick cross #f 1)(snare
default #f 1)(closedhihat cross "stopped" 4)(hihat cross #f 4)(openhihat
cross "open" 4)(pedalhihat cross #f -4)(ridecymbal cross #f 5)(cowbell cross
#f 0)  
(crashcymbal cross #f 5)(highfloortom default #f -1)(lowmidtom default #f
2)(himidtom default #f 3)(losidestick xcircle #f 1)))

up = \drummode { \override Beam #'positions = #'(5 . 5) \once \override
TextScript #'staff-padding = #2.6 sn16_"R" \once \override TextScript
#'staff-padding = #2.6 sn16_"L" \once \override TextScript #'staff-padding =
#2.6 hho16_"R" \once \override TextScript #'staff-padding = #2.6 sn16_"L"
\once \override TextScript #'staff-padding = #2.6  sn16_"R" \once \override
TextScript #'staff-padding = #2.6 hho16_"L" \once \override TextScript
#'staff-padding = #2.6 sn16_"R" \once \override TextScript #'staff-padding =
#2.6 sn16_"L" \once \override TextScript #'staff-padding = #2.6 hho16_"R"
\once \override TextScript #'staff-padding = #2.6 sn16_"L" \once \override
TextScript #'staff-padding = #2.6 tommh16^"1"_"R" \once \override TextScript
#'staff-padding = #2.6 tommh16^"1"_"L" \once \override TextScript
#'staff-padding = #2.6 tomml16^"2"_"R" \once \override TextScript
#'staff-padding = #2.6 tomml16^"2"_"L" \once \override TextScript
#'staff-padding = #2.6 tomfh^"3"_"R" \once \override TextScript
#'staff-padding = #2.6 tomfh^"3"_"L"   }
down = \drummode { \override Beam #'positions = #'(-4 . -4) r8 bd16 r16 r16
bd16 r8 bd16 r8.  r4  }
\score {
   \new DrumStaff \with {
fontSize = #3
\override StaffSymbol #'staff-space = #(magstep 3)
}
   <<
  \set DrumStaff.drumStyleTable = #(alist->hash-table mydrums)
  \override DrumStaff.TimeSignature #'style = #'()
  \new DrumVoice  { \voiceOne \up}
  \new DrumVoice  { \voiceTwo   \down  }
   >>
\layout {
\context{}
}
\midi {
\context {
  \Score
 tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment 80 4)
  }
}
}


NotationXBig.ly
% the resolution of the png bitmaps is 127dpi;
% a paper size of 140mm x 30 mm will lead to a bitmap of
% 700x 150 pixels

#(ly:set-option 'resolution 256)


% the paper size is 700x150 pixels and the score covers almost the
% complete width;  any additional markup is left out

\paper {
  paper-width = 140\mm
  paper-height = 50\mm
  resolution = 256
  top-margin = 4\mm
  bottom-margin = 5\mm
  line-width = 136\mm
%  head-separation = 4\mm
%  foot-separation = 4\mm
  page-top-space = 4\mm
  after-title-space = 0\mm
  indent = 1\mm
  horizontal-shift = 0.5\mm
%  ragged-right = ##t
%  ragged-bottom = ##t
  % -- remove all markup --
  print-page-number = ##f
  print-first-page-number = ##f
  evenFooterMarkup=##f
  oddFooterMarkup=##f
  evenHeaderMarkup=##f
  oddHeaderMarkup=##f
  bookTitleMarkup=##f
  scoreTitleMarkup=##f  
}


please help,

thank you!

-- 
Vie

Re: Text script below spanner?

[Rune Zedeler]

Mats Bengtsson skrev:

Or at least, add a "see also 5.5.5 Vertical collision avoidance" from 
1.8.1.2 Text scripts.

I think that would do it, actually.


Then, you should add the corresponding links from all other
objects that appear outside staffs,


I don't agree.
Section 1.8.1.2 talks about how to order scripts vertically. I consider 
the explanation given in that section "half". Did you actually read 
section 1.8.1.2 before you wrote your reply?



such as dynamics, piano pedals,
bar numbers, rehersal marks, to mention a few.


These sections do not talk about vertical spacing at all.

-Rune


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Re: publish separate drum exercises in one pdf file

[Mats Bengtsson]

ismaehkloa wrote:


I am transcribing my daughter's hand written drum exercises into lilypond.
I'd love to be able to have each week's exercises on one pdf page.
I am working in windows and have problems running lilypond-book (I think).
 


It shouldn't be any problem. However, you can also do these
things purely in LilyPond.


I can do nice individual pdfs and pngs, just not merge them onto one pdf.
 


Why merge PDF files? I hope you know that you can have any
number of \score blocks in the same .ly file and that they will
be merged together into a single PDF file. An even simpler
alternative is to typeset them all in the same \score, and just
add \break between each new exercise to get start it on a new
line.
If you search the mailing list archives, you should also be able
to find tricks to get automatic numbering of the different
exercises, for example.

   /Mats


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Re: Text script below spanner?

[Rune Zedeler]

Rune Zedeler skrev:

Section 1.8.1.2 talks about how to order scripts vertically.


Sorry, I was reading section 1.3.1.1 Articulations and ornamentations 
thinking that I was reading 1.8.1.2.

Silly me.

In 1.3.1.1 we have "The vertical ordering of scripts is controlled with 
...".
I think that from /this/ explanation it would make sense to make a 
reference to 1.8.1.2. Sorry for the confusion.


-Rune


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Re: Text script below spanner?

[Rune Zedeler]

Rune Zedeler skrev:
In 1.3.1.1 we have "The vertical ordering of scripts is controlled with 
...".
I think that from /this/ explanation it would make sense to make a 
reference to 1.8.1.2. Sorry for the confusion.


AAARGH, to 5.5.5. Good night. :-)

-Rune


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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Reinhold Kainhofer]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Am Mittwoch, 27. Februar 2008 schrieb Brett Duncan:
> The term "octave clefs" crops up in many places on the 'Net, 

An octave clef is something different than an ottava bracket. Botch indicate 
octavation, but while an ottava bracket (e.g. 8va) applies only to some 
spanned part of the music, an octave clef (e.g. \clef "treble_8" for tenor) 
indicates that the whole part is notated an octave higher.

Cheers,
Reinhold

- -- 
- --
Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna University of Technology, Austria
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/
 * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/
 * K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org, KOrganizer maintainer
 * Chorvereinigung "Jung-Wien", http://www.jung-wien.at/
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lXsjRB2z3+WshE+qgW7JOyk=
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time signatures

[James E. Bailey]

okay, I'm a little confused. This doesn't work
{\clef bass #(set-time-signature 9 8 '(2 3 2 2)) gis8^\<([ fis] [gis a  
h\!] [a fis] [e d)] }



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time signature

[James E. Bailey]

oh wow, nvm. I should sleep.


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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Damian,


agreed, i always use the 8_clefs


I will make a point of doing that from now on.
(Mostly-)Rhetorical question: I wonder if clefs like "treble_5" would  
be appropriate for transposing instruments?



but, to be fussy, don't you mean 'transposing clefs'?


I do!
Thanks for the reminder.

Best,
Kieren.


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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Tim Reeves]

> in the case of a 'transposing at the octave' instrument such as 
> piccolo or double bass,
> the clef change or 8va/b sign is implied and simply omitted as a 
> convenience.

Aside: we (all) should immediately stop doing that -- we should start 
writing ALL instruments with "transposed clefs", to be clear.  ;-)


I'd second that. As a horn player, I sometimes have to play bass clef 
parts which were written an octave lower than intended pitch (e.g. common 
in Beethoven's time, but not today), and it can be confusing figuring out 
what was meant.
I didn't know bass and piccolo had to do the same thing at times.





Tim Reeves

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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Tim,


it can be confusing figuring out what was meant


Agreed -- we (as engravers, and composers) can reduce confusion with  
a little extra effort.



I didn't know bass and piccolo had to do the same thing at times.


Not to mention bass clarinet players, percussionists (e.g.,  
crotales), some saxophone players, etc.


Cheers,
Kieren.


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Scheme variables and chordmode

[Timothy S. Nelson]

Hi all.  I'm a programmer, but a scheme beginner.  I'm using the
following code.



dostroke = #(define-music-function (parser location chord length) (ly:music? 
num

ber?)
#{
\chordmode { e,$length:5.8 }
#}
)



I presume you can all see what I'm trying to achieve here.  However, I
can't get it to work, because it says "Parsing...ERROR: Unbound variable:
length:5.8".  The other variations I've tried all also give errors.  Is there 
some way I can do this using chordmode, or do I have to do it the long way?


Thanks,


-
| Name: Tim Nelson | Because the Creator is,|
| E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| I am   |
-

BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK
Version 3.12
GCS d+++ s+: a- C++$ U+++$ P+++$ L+++ E- W+ N+ w--- V- 
PE(+) Y+>++ PGP->+++ R(+) !tv b++ DI D G+ e++> h! y-

-END GEEK CODE BLOCK-


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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[David Fedoruk]

I believe the original post asked for how it was *commonly* referred
to as. My reply was either transposition or displacement. Neither one
of these ways is most or exactly accurate. We should, as I've said
before, fall back on the standard reference volumes for music ...
those are Harvard Dictionary and the Groves Dictionary or Music and
Musicians.

Personally I like the way Groves has side stepped the issue and merely
recorded the standard terms which are in Italian. We should keep to
the accepted standards as much as is possible. One thing is very
certain, it is extremely frustrating to find music with instructions
in a language I do not understand when it is possible to give the same
instructions in terms which are almost universally accepted in that
particular type of music. In this case it is Western European Music.

Nothing in the history of music has been decreed or set down in stone,
in general musicians have agreed upon a standard way of communicating.
Lilypond should adopt those as far as is possible. To be sure, much
has transpired in the past 150 years that no one could have foreseen.
So we have atonal music and the need to have ways of addressing those
needs.

As far as is possilbe, that should be done in terms which are easily
understood by most musicians. I'm sure that the writers of both
Harvard and Groves have already had these discussions. Lets learn from
them and  save ourselves the hassle of repeating those same
discussions.

We also will have music from non-european traditions to address, so we
all have to keep that in mind as well.

Cheers,
David
>
>
>  According to Harvard dict. of music 4th ed.:
>
>  > Transposition. the rewriting or performance of music at a pitch other
>  > than the original one.
>
>  It does not imply change of key in all contexts, keys have meaning only in
>  tonal music anyway.
>

-- 
David Fedoruk
B.Mus. UBC,1986
Certificate in Internet Systems Administration, UBC, 2003


http://recordjackethistorian.wordpress.com
"Music is enough for one's life time, but one life time is not enough
for music" Sergei Rachmaninov


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Midi problem

[hhpmusic]

Hi,
  I know the Dynamic context created in piano template allows Midi output to 
play piano pedaling. But when I write piano piece, the Midi can't reflect my 
pedaling, and the sound is still dry. This is not because of my player, because 
when I play some Midi files created by other softwares such as Finale, the 
pedaling is here. Why? How to make my Midi file really have pedaling output?
Haipeng
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Re: GDP: NR 1.1 comment

[David Fedoruk]

Piano music is not the only place to use a GrandStaff is it? Is not a
full orchestral score written on a Grand Staff? And the full score of
a String Quartet is it not also a Grand Staff?

I am not 100% sure I'm right here either. I thought that GrandStaff
meant more than one staves bound together because they made up a
greater whole.

In Lilypond I thought that PianoStaff was  inside the GrandStaff
hierarchy as child of the GrandStaff the way GrandStaff is of \score.

As i say, I'm not sure that I'm exactly correct here, but if I am then
GrandStaff still has uses aside from the far more specific case of
PianoStaff.

Cheers
David



>  >> I just noticed that the staff contexts of the examples in 1.1.3.5 are
>  >> PianoStaff. In 1.6 there is only mentioned GrandStaff. Which one is
>  >> the preferred one to be used? I would mention both in 1.6, but I
>  >> think we should develop guidelines which context names to use. Maybe
>  >> the PianoStaff is (at least to others than English native speakers)
>  >> more understandable? So the context would be called PianoStaff in
>  >> 1.6.1 but I would also mention that there is a GrandStaff context?
>  >> So far I have understood that they are both equal. Is this true?
>  >>
>  > In version 2.11, the only difference between the two is that
>  > PianoStaff contains the instrument name engraver. In version 2.10
>  > and earlier, there were more differences. The PianoStaff then produced
>  > a fixed distance between the staves, since the cross-staff
>  > slurs and beams didn't work otherwise. This limitation has been fixed
>  > in 2.11.
>  Ok, good to know. So PianoStaff should maybe be the default, so nobody
>  will be wondering why the instrument name won't show up...
>  What for is the GrandStaff then?
>
>  Till
>
>
> >
>  >   /Mats
>  >
>
>
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-- 
David Fedoruk
B.Mus. UBC,1986
Certificate in Internet Systems Administration, UBC, 2003


http://recordjackethistorian.wordpress.com
"Music is enough for one's life time, but one life time is not enough
for music" Sergei Rachmaninov


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Re: Midi problem

[David Fedoruk]

MIDI doesn't indicate exactly what the instruments will sound like.
The exact sounds depend on the General MIDI instruments the person
playing the file back has available on their computer.

The way the playback sounds to you will not be the way it sounds when
it is played back on other computers. MIDI is not very exact in that
respect.

Cheers
David

> Hi,
>   I know the Dynamic context created in piano template allows Midi output to
> play piano pedaling. But when I write piano piece, the Midi can't reflect my
> pedaling, and the sound is still dry. This is not because of my player,
> because when I play some Midi files created by other softwares such as
> Finale, the pedaling is here. Why? How to make my Midi file really have
> pedaling output?
> Haipeng
>
>
> 
>  已 经 超 过 100 万 台 电 脑 安 装 了 网 易 有 道 免 费 英 汉 词 典 ， 点 击 此 处 可 以 快 速 下 载
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>



-- 
David Fedoruk
B.Mus. UBC,1986
Certificate in Internet Systems Administration, UBC, 2003


http://recordjackethistorian.wordpress.com
"Music is enough for one's life time, but one life time is not enough
for music" Sergei Rachmaninov
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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Kurt Kroon]

On 2008/02/16 12:48 PM, "Kurt Kroon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm working on the Glossary for the GDP, and I'm stuck -- so, I'm canvassing
> the list.

Wow ... it's too bad no one here has any strong opinions on the matter.  So,
since I started the d*mn thread, I have to wrangle it back to its corral.

My original question was:
"You've written a composition with a passage that needs to be played in a
different octave.  When you describe it (this passage) to another musician,
what term do you use?  And do you use the same term or a different one for
the actual _process of writing_ the passage in a different octave (if you
even bother to name the process)?"

Here's what I got:

Dutch:
octaveren (dank aan Alard)
Finnish:
Risto, you out there? I don't think anyone else can handle Finnish 
French:
octaviation (merci à Valentin)
German:
Oktavierung (viele Dank an Reinhold)
Italian:
all'ottava (alta or bassa) (grazie a Andrew)
Spanish:
a la octava (gracias a Francisco)
Danish, Swedish (and Norwegian):
oktavering (tackar till Eyolf ... I think, since none of the machine
translators offer any of these languages.)

English -- I haven't decided yet among:
*  octave transposition (thanks to Trevor B., seconded by Anh T., thirded by
Damian)
* ottava spanners (Trevor B., in a follow-up email)
* octave displacement (thanks to David F.)
* all'ottava (David F., in a follow-up)
* ottava passage (thanks to Ralph P.)
* octave indication/indicator (ovtaKieren ... err ... thanks to Kieren)
* setting the octave (I just made that up)

The main points that I'm considering are --

Trevor B.:
"The confusion here must be between the graphic *symbols* for things (like
ottava spanners and clefs) and the musical *effects* of those things (ie,
octave transposition). In general the names of the symbols are probably much
more widely agreed upon than the names of the abstract processes those
symbols effect."

Damian:
"the pragmatic 'what would i look for in the index?' approach is going
to have to arbitrate here"

Except that *I* have to make a decision ... eventually -- and I would
probably search for "(octave OR ottava OR octavation) inurl:v2.1
site:lilypond.org" (using Google)

Kieren:
"Really, what we're talking about is a NOTATIONAL SHORTHAND."

David F.:
"Personally I like the way Groves has side stepped the issue and merely
recorded the standard terms which are in Italian."

So I'm going back to re-read the polemics ... err ... thread.

So ... let me mull things over and come back with what I decide.  If you'd
like to add any last minute comments, please send them directly to me, not
the list.  That way, people who are trying to figure out how to do something
neat in LilyPond won't have to way to arguments over the semantics of
writing octaves/ottava brackets/spanners, and whether the process is called
transposition/indication (a front runner!)/displacement, or whatnot.

Kurtis




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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Brett Duncan]

Reinhold Kainhofer wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Am Mittwoch, 27. Februar 2008 schrieb Brett Duncan:
The term "octave clefs" crops up in many places on the 'Net, 


An octave clef is something different than an ottava bracket. Botch indicate 
octavation, but while an ottava bracket (e.g. 8va) applies only to some 
spanned part of the music, an octave clef (e.g. \clef "treble_8" for tenor) 
indicates that the whole part is notated an octave higher.


Cheers,
Reinhold


It was octave clefs that I was referring to, not the ottava 
brackets/spanners, in response to Trevor's reference to 'octavated' 
clefs,  since, as he pointed out, 'octavated' isn't a real word in English.


Kurt's original question was about what to call it when you *use* ottava 
brackets. Personally, I've only ever called it an 'octave change', or 
referred to an ottava passage/measure. 'Octavation' is not a real word 
in English, and while I have no objection to neologisms per se, if there 
is a better English expression that is clearly understood, IMO that's 
what should appear in the docs.


Brett


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Additive time signatures (was: GDP ... complex meters)

[Kurt Kroon]

> (I'm not sure if one can extend this last one in LilyPond to more complex
> examples, like when the numerator is an additive expression, and the
> denominator is a single digit, e.g. (3+2+3)/8.)

I was mistaken ... it *is* possible to extend the syntax (which seems
completely reasonable, in retrospect).  I've borrowed (and stretched) the
compound-time-signature snippet as follows:

\version "2.10.33"
#(define (compound-time grob one two three num)
  (interpret-markup
   (ly:grob-layout grob)
   '(((baseline-skip . 2)
  (word-space . 2)
  (font-family . number)))
   (markup
#:line ( #:column (one) "+" #:column (two num) "+" #:column (three)

\relative {
  %% compound time signature hack
  \time 8/8
  \override Staff.TimeSignature  #'stencil
  = #(lambda (grob) (compound-time grob "3" "2" "3" "8"))
  #(override-auto-beam-setting '(end 1 8 8 8) 3 8)
  c8 c c f f d d bes g c c f d c f e
}

\layout {
\context {
\Staff
\consists "Measure_grouping_engraver"
}
}

It isn't quite right -- the measure grouping should be 3+2+3, not 3+3+2,
which I attribute to my perfunctory reading of the section on overriding the
auto-beam setting -- but I'm positively gobsmacked at how close it is.  If I
manually beamed what I wanted (instead of trying to have LilyPond do it for
me), Lily would do it exactly as I expected it.

Does this qualify to be added to the compound-time snippet?
And if so, am I the one who's supposed to add it?

Kurtis



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