Re: [issues] sulfuric acid, liability, and object programming
On Mon, 1 Nov 1999, curious wrote: > so to round this out my non-sequidor question :) : > What can I (or other males on this list) > do to bring more identity and understanding from men to women if > anything? I'd rather take a step back from the porn issue so I haven't addressed that aspect of your post at all. Some random thoughts on this, recognizing it's late and I've had a LONG day. 1) I want to feel like sexual harassment, whether male to female or female to male or same-sex, is widely recognized as a problem. I want it understood how much it can harm. 2) I want a broader acceptance of the AAUP definition of sexual harassment. By this, I mean that if there is a) a power differential; b) a supervisory relationship; c) any attempt at a romantic and/or sexual relationship, that it is therefore sexual harassment. Why? Because I'm tired of guys boffing their secretaries and going home to their wives. And, not that this has any relevance to anything whatsoever[1], guys spending more corporate money flying their mistress around than they will spend on education for their staff. 3) I'll let you know when I wake upI must finish writing. I must finish writing. [1] of course it does! -- _Deirdre * http://www.linuxcabal.net * http://www.deirdre.net "Mars has been a tough target" -- Peter G. Neumann, Risks Digest Moderator "That's because the Martians keep shooting things down." -- Harlan Rosenthal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, retorting in Risks Digest 20.60 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
REMINDER (was: Re: [issues] Something I've observed)
> Well maybe you have a kill file, you npy yjrer hear me again. I I hebe doen my > nedst tostart a flame war and feel sorry you can't imdermine my points. I would like to remind folks of the posting guidelines for the LinuxChix lists: 1) be polite 2) be helpful I ask that everyone please follow these guidelines and PLEASE do not "do your best to start a flame war". In other words: cease and desist. Either stop this thread now, or take it off list, I don't care which. Thank you. - deb -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues] alienation (was: Places, issues, etc)
Nico Hailey wrote: > > So my question is more or less, Does > the origin (ie, actually *ism, cluelessness, trolling, etc) of the > *ist things which are said matter? > > I mean the effect on ppl seems the same (discomfort, getting defensive, > going into "educating" mode). My SO is frequently telling me > "he didn't really /mean/ X, don't be so agro"... But if he didn't > really mean X, then he either said X to troll, or because he is > clueless. Neither of which deserves a "well, that's nice, dear". I think your second (quoted) paragraph answers your first: trolling deserves a metaphorical (or real?) slap in the face. Cluelessness deserves education. Conscious *ism deserves defensiveness. Unconscious *ism deserves education. IMO. YMMV. Jenn V. -- Humans are the only species to feed and house entirely separate species for no reason other than the pleasure of their company. Why? [EMAIL PROTECTED]Jenn Vespermanhttp://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues] alienation (was: Places, issues, etc)
srl wrote: > Talking about gender and sex as non-binary conditions seems useful to > me--- that's why i suggest this. I think that a lot of the problems geeks > face could be talked about in terms of gender. > > For example: Male geeks often face pressure because they aren't [usually] > the "jock-guy" gender, and female geeks get pressure because they aren't > [usually] the "cheerleader" gender. > > Does that make sense to anyone else? yes, it does. But I have a struggle figuring out what gender I am if you split it up this much. I know I'm female, but other than that the best I can manage is 'I'm me'. Jenn V. -- Humans are the only species to feed and house entirely separate species for no reason other than the pleasure of their company. Why? [EMAIL PROTECTED]Jenn Vespermanhttp://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues] Something I've observed
Deirdre Saoirse wrote: > > On Mon, 1 Nov 1999, Aaron Malone wrote: > > > You're right, it's a combination of both. Those who engage in this sort of > > behavior are grabbing the conversation, and from experience they know that many > > people *will* defer, if for no other reason than they're used to more polite > > conversational environments. > > Right. So what we need to do is recognize that a) this happens all the > time and b) that this has been happening on this list and c) resolve to > cope better with it in the future. Constructive bitchiness. And a willingness to take the word 'bitch' as a compliment. (Oh? You're saying I've learned not to defer to assholes? Why thank you!) Jenn V. -- Humans are the only species to feed and house entirely separate species for no reason other than the pleasure of their company. Why? [EMAIL PROTECTED]Jenn Vespermanhttp://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues] sulfuric acid, liability, and object programming
curious wrote: > > so to round this out my non-sequidor question :) : > What can I (or other males on this list) > do to bring more identity and understanding from > men to women if anything? We don't know. We're trying to figure it out. Start by listening, and trying to learn where we're currently at. Go through the archives, and /read/ them. Thoroughly. Reread everything you don't quite understand. Especially things written by people who put thought into things, or were trying to explain things to others. Get hold of feminist literature, or 'women's studies' textbooks. Study history, psychology, sociology, philosophy. Learn. Yup. It's hard. I'm not proposing a quick, five-step answer. Because there isn't one. Jenn V. -- Humans are the only species to feed and house entirely separate species for no reason other than the pleasure of their company. Why? [EMAIL PROTECTED]Jenn Vespermanhttp://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues] Automatic associations
>> I found out that I, with 3% of the people who took the test, had a > moderate tendancy to >> associate females with science. Not *too* big a surprise since I've been >> good and brainwashed with female-friendly science programs, although it'd be >> nice if I could say I had no associations. > > I had a strong automatic preference for female-science association. I > took the test twice (one in the reverse order of the other), and both > came out the same way. The same happened with me. I had a strong automatic association for female-science. Maybe it's because I'm a technical, math oriented person (always got better grades in math and science then in english), and my little brother is an actor who's never been good at math and science. Deidre Calarco Robert Darvas Associates (734) 761-8713 (ext. 16) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues] alienation (was: Places, issues, etc)
> also more on topic, I was yakking with a bunch of my (male/man) geek > friends, and one of them made a comment about how every geek needs > a Vemla(sp, nerdy girl char from scobby doo) because she's smart > and wears short skirts. (I hate it when /. invades my house.) I > brought up any number of assumptions my dear friend was making and > I got the classic dear-caught-in-head-lights look. So I have been > caught, yet again, assigning sexism/genderism to where mere > cluelessness would suffice. So my question is more or less, Does > the origin (ie, actually *ism, cluelessness, trolling, etc) of the > *ist things which are said matter? LOL. My (male) best friend in elementary school used to call me "Velma." Actually, I'm not really offended by that. Smart is good, and "wears short skirts" could mean she doesn't have body image hangups and may be more fun in bed. Velma wasn't exactly the barbie doll type, if I remember correctly... Deidre Calarco Robert Darvas Associates (734) 761-8713 (ext. 16) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues] alienation (was: Places, issues, etc)
On Tue, 2 Nov 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > srl wrote: > > > Talking about gender and sex as non-binary conditions seems useful to > > me--- that's why i suggest this. I think that a lot of the problems geeks > > face could be talked about in terms of gender. > > > > For example: Male geeks often face pressure because they aren't [usually] > > the "jock-guy" gender, and female geeks get pressure because they aren't > > [usually] the "cheerleader" gender. > > > > Does that make sense to anyone else? > > yes, it does. But I have a struggle figuring out what gender I am if you > split it up this much. I know I'm female, but other than that the best > I can manage is 'I'm me'. which is what I think it comes down to ultimately. Lots of people can say "I'm me"--- without reference to further gender categories--- but when people see us, they see the outside gender presentation. So, people see something-with-a-female-body, and usually they attach assumptions: "she's probably verbal/nontechnical/social/deferent to men." Then a female breaks those assumptions, and some people don't know what to do with the situation because they have all these ideas about "women". Or a female doesn't look like females are "supposed" to--- maybe ze gets called "sir" half the time b/c ze's really butch. Maybe ze doesn't identify as a "woman" at all. But, yet, we persist in seeing geeky females and butches as "women"--- in the same category with Barbie, Cindy Crawford, and Ricki Lake. There's such a range of female genders, but we have so few words. That really should change. We persist in using this XOR model of woman/man, but I'm sure there's a better way. srl [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues] alienation (was: Places, issues, etc)
> But, yet, we persist in seeing geeky females and butches as "women"--- in > the same category with Barbie, Cindy Crawford, and Ricki Lake. There's > such a range of female genders, but we have so few words. That really > should change. We persist in using this XOR model of woman/man, but I'm > sure there's a better way. Why associate all these personal characteristics with gender at all? I see gender as a fairly small part of who I am. I think of my technical /musical /non-frilly /aggressive characteristics as independent of gender, not as parts of a complicated new gender definition. I think that the more we separate ideas about aptitudes and interests from ideas about gender, the better. There's no reason why geeky females and butches can't share a gender with Barbie, Cindy Crawford, and Ricki Lake. It's only a small part of who we are - just one shared characteristic among many. I guess my conception of "gender" doesn't go too far beyond "sex." Deidre Calarco Robert Darvas Associates (734) 761-8713 (ext. 16) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues] Something I've observed
In short, I'm not coming down on anyone who wants to keep their chapter female-only. However, I think it's a shame to exclude people on the basis of their sex and I wouldn't want to see that happen locally. If it were me (and it isn't), I would let anyone in, regardless of their gender, and if they caused problems (like trying to hit on people, being outright obnoxious, etc) I would ask them not to come back. I know that the men at the Ottawa linuxchix meeting were definately an asset to our meeting. I don't believe many people looked at them and said 'they're male' or looked at me and said 'she's female'. Of course, we all knew each other's genders, but that didn't seem to factor in to our coversations. I, as a male must agree with this. How are we supposed to forward the women's issues if there are you men allowed? Would this not be discrimination of the sort that women and minorties have been fighting for years, and screaming about? Does that make it right just because the genders are different? If the person, male or female wants to be involved, and has a reasonable voice, why exclude them? Another point...have you ever noticed that most of the persons who are extremely vocal about banning abortion are men? Is it a medical issue, or a control issue? -Jack __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues] alienation (was: Places, issues, etc)
sorry, this is a bit long and ramblely. Thanks to the list for providing such material to chew on. On Mon, Nov 01, 1999 at 11:00:35PM -0500, Deidre L. Calarco wrote: > > should change. We persist in using this XOR model of woman/man, but I'm > > sure there's a better way. > > Why associate all these personal characteristics with gender at all? I see > gender as a fairly small part of who I am. I think of my technical /musical > /non-frilly /aggressive characteristics as independent of gender, not as > parts of a complicated new gender definition. well, I would agree with you if I thought that this position was tenable in our current society. /I/ see gender as a small part of who I am. Most ppl I run into get hung up on it(my gender, let alone theirs). And I know the great one would say "what do you care what other people think" but, I'm finding that what other people think is very important. Since lots of other people think that technical/non-frilly/aggressive != female, it breaks their world when then encounter such females. Depending on how they think/feel/react the consequence for this sort of transgression can be positive (kewl! not all females are fluff-chicks) mild-bad (a sniff and not hiring you) or really bad (gunshot to the head cf. brandon teena, 1993). I don't think that new gender definitions are particularly comprehensible to a majority of americans(I am just saying americans because that is who I have the most experience with). I think geek-female does challenge the traditional notion for female-gender in a way that barbie et all do not. > I think that the more we separate ideas about aptitudes and interests from > ideas about gender, the better. There's no reason why geeky females and > butches can't share a gender with Barbie, Cindy Crawford, and Ricki Lake. You know, deidre, you are the sort of poster who I agree totally with one sentence and then disagree the next. It's difficult to compose a response that way. ;) Yes, separating ideas/aptitudes/interests from gender is good. As far as butches sharing a gender with barbie (etc) um I don't think that they do. Perhaps it is just a consequence of deconstructing gender so much that I can't think about it normally. But I think that traditionally feminine females interact fairly differently than either non-traditionally feminine females or masculine females, almost to the point of being a separate gender. I was thinking about this when I read an article in the Boston Phoenix last week. Male/man columnist goes off about the joys of paintball and other sort of typically grunt-male sort of part times, and then takes aim at certain woman/female sports figures and laments that they aren't ladylike anymore, and then asserts that it's a shame that feminism (any one else tired of seeing feminism as a monolithic bogeyman?) has lowered women to act like men, and gosh! now the women won't be able to be kind and loving to the men anymore because they are too competitive. > It's only a small part of who we are - just one shared characteristic among > many. I guess my conception of "gender" doesn't go too far beyond "sex." hmmm. then it would be that you don't have a concept of "gender"? It seems to me that if one did not have a concept of gender then the label "woman" or "man" would be meaningless. Would it be meaningless to be on a discussion list aimed at one "gender"? ok, off to study for my midterm. nico -- ND Hailey www.demona.com "You don't hardly know yourself, girl, till you find yourself doing things you never imagined." --Dorothy Allison [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues] Something I've observed
> There are all my opinions Steve K=Kudlaks chromexa@mry )@) sistrinution without > Comoros; use emvpitrsaged... > Hey prep feral witty Mr. do rot. > > Jab FUn, What language IS this? :o) -nicole [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
[issues] Expanding codes....
Deirdre Saoirse wrote: > (lots of nics stuff.FOLKS EXCUSE MY SHITTY WEEK PLEASE) > (It should not have SPREAD TO OTHERS...IT WAS MY FAULT...) > > 2) I want a broader acceptance of the AAUP definition of sexual > harassment. By this, I mean that if there is a) a power differential; b) a > supervisory relationship; c) any attempt at a romantic and/or sexual > relationship, that it is therefore sexual harassment. Why? Because I'm > tired of guys boffing their secretaries and going home to their wives. > And, not that this has any relevance to anything whatsoever[1], guys > spending more corporate money flying their mistress around than they will > spend on education for their staff. > > 3) I'll let you know when I wake upI must finish writing. I must > finish writing. > > [1] of course it does! > CANADA IS CLOSE:: AT LEAST WITH TEENS The age on consent in Canada is 14. But the supervisory, power relationshp stuff is taken much more seriously. Coachers, teacher and the like. The legal code is sensible and takes into account: "THe CROWN AND THE HEART SHOULD BE FAR APART. The powers of authoruty should not interefere in affairs of the heart. Whether this coud be done for adults. Well I highly doubt it. I doubt one can get that done here in the US or CANADA. And I don't know whether I want too much more money flowing into the coffers of the FREE PRESS, which has become a leading anti-PC publisher. Ands alas lawyers would have a field day over this issue, Especially, and I am not a lawyer, except for domestic violence and sex with teenagers below the agge of consent, there is little 3 party intervention that can be generated., especially when the parties are consenting adults. So much for not posting to issues. :) Have Fun, Sends Steve P.S. In general I agree, but cxould someone olease expplain what AAUP is? ANd any corections if I am wrong > > -- > _Deirdre * http://www.linuxcabal.net * http://www.deirdre.net > "Mars has been a tough target" -- Peter G. Neumann, Risks Digest Moderator > "That's because the Martians keep shooting things down." -- Harlan Rosenthal > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, retorting in Risks Digest 20.60 > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues]: Techie is my sex neutral term...
"Deidre L. Calarco" wrote: > >> I found out that I, with 3% of the people who took the test, had a > > moderate tendancy to > >> associate females with science. Not *too* big a surprise since I've been > >> good and brainwashed with female-friendly science programs, although it'd be > >> nice if I could say I had no associations. > > > > I had a strong automatic preference for female-science association. I > > took the test twice (one in the reverse order of the other), and both > > came out the same way. > > The same happened with me. I had a strong automatic association for > female-science. Maybe it's because I'm a technical, math oriented person > (always got better grades in math and science then in english), and my > little brother is an actor who's never been good at math and science. > > Deidre Calarco > Robert Darvas Associates > (734) 761-8713 (ext. 16) > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org I f somoene says "techie" an image of either sex pops into my head. Sometimes it gets weird. Like should I teach this 19-17 year of either sex how to do to the techie thingw without his or her (usually her oparents freaking out). Have Fun, Sends Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues] alienation (was: Places, issues, etc)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Nico Hailey wrote: > > > > So my question is more or less, Does > > the origin (ie, actually *ism, cluelessness, trolling, etc) of the > > *ist things which are said matter? > > > > I mean the effect on ppl seems the same (discomfort, getting defensive, > > going into "educating" mode). My SO is frequently telling me > > "he didn't really /mean/ X, don't be so agro"... But if he didn't > > really mean X, then he either said X to troll, or because he is > > clueless. Neither of which deserves a "well, that's nice, dear". > > I think your second (quoted) paragraph answers your first: trolling > deserves a metaphorical (or real?) slap in the face. Cluelessness > deserves education. Conscious *ism deserves defensiveness. Unconscious > *ism deserves education. IMO. YMMV. > > Jenn V. > -- > Humans are the only species to feed and house entirely separate species > for no reason other than the pleasure of their company. Why? > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]Jenn Vespermanhttp://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org I crash into a bit of this becaus my value system is a bit different from others. The wosrt clashes seem to be over diffeernt value and subcultural value judgemenrs, I ty to be careful, but it seems somethings are important to others and not to me,. Or as recent events prove many take dress codes as a given and I take them as personal space invasion. Trolling and such, and "hitting up a secretary" at work seems a different story, So are otrher things. But hat's my take. HaveFun, Sens Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues] Something I've observed
On Tue, 2 Nov 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Constructive bitchiness. And a willingness to take the word 'bitch' as a > compliment. > (Oh? You're saying I've learned not to defer to assholes? Why thank you!) Seize power Jenn! :) I like this attitude. :) -- _Deirdre * http://www.linuxcabal.net * http://www.deirdre.net "Mars has been a tough target" -- Peter G. Neumann, Risks Digest Moderator "That's because the Martians keep shooting things down." -- Harlan Rosenthal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, retorting in Risks Digest 20.60 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues] alienation (was: Places, issues, etc)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > srl wrote: > > > Talking about gender and sex as non-binary conditions seems useful to > > me--- that's why i suggest this. I think that a lot of the problems geeks > > face could be talked about in terms of gender. > > > > For example: Male geeks often face pressure because they aren't [usually] > > the "jock-guy" gender, and female geeks get pressure because they aren't > > [usually] the "cheerleader" gender. > > > > Does that make sense to anyone else? > > yes, it does. But I have a struggle figuring out what gender I am if you > split it up this much. I know I'm female, but other than that the best > I can manage is 'I'm me'. > > Jenn V. > -- > Humans are the only species to feed and house entirely separate species > for no reason other than the pleasure of their company. Why? > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]Jenn Vespermanhttp://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org To me itt makes a lot of sense...When in high school, there was no real place for budding or deven deveopled geeks. If you ghad glasses, you were "four eyes". Geek and nerd type wee roubdly put down. To tthis day I think gym are evil and won'rt contribute money for a new gym..There has got be a awat to get exercise withoug that sort of stuff. ANd by the way that in my experience is where all those "penis jokes" start, often adided and abbeted by coaches. Many male coaches (this was awhile ago) actually helped inculcate the standard ideas about women and whate they were good for, usually only one thing. Weird thing is they almost all had wives. ANy female who was attractive in the standard mold, was pushed or almost dreagged inro cheerleading. Now in a sports charged area. I obseve it starts early like 5th grade, Althihg thanks ro title IX there are girls in "real spports: and female basketabll and baseball players get almost as much press as guys. It hasn't quirte got here that being a "geek" is a real thing. Geek and nerd are still insult terms. Thought this being a poor areas computers=$$$ is slowly starting to snink in. Personal Note: In high school Dramatics was fun escape routre for me in the las 2years. Have Fun, Sends Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues] Something I've observed
Nicole Zimmerman wrote: > > There are all my opinions Steve K=Kudlaks chromexa@mry )@) sistrinution without > > Comoros; use emvpitrsaged... > > Hey prep feral witty Mr. do rot. > > > > Jab FUn, > > What language IS this? :o) > > -nicole > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org Been up for 40+ hours and bad week language!:) Have FUn, Sends STeve [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues] alienation (was: Places, issues, etc)
srl wrote: > Then a female breaks those assumptions, and some people don't know what to > do with the situation because they have all these ideas about "women". > Or a female doesn't look like females are "supposed" to--- maybe ze gets > called "sir" half the time b/c ze's really butch. Maybe ze doesn't > identify as a "woman" at all. I go into a mixed tech/nontech gathering with Dancer, and wind up subtly directed to be with the 'wives'. Who are talking about kids and husbands, usually, before I extricate myself. (or start teaching) > But, yet, we persist in seeing geeky females and butches as "women"--- in > the same category with Barbie, Cindy Crawford, and Ricki Lake. There's > such a range of female genders, but we have so few words. That really > should change. We persist in using this XOR model of woman/man, but I'm > sure there's a better way. I'm not sure that classifying people further is the answer. Reclaiming 'person' - or some other gender-neutral identification - might be an answer. But having studied stereotyping, I don't think that's quite an answer either - people stereotype because it's how our brains are wired. We categorise and classify instinctively. Sigh. Jenn V. -- Humans are the only species to feed and house entirely separate species for no reason other than the pleasure of their company. Why? [EMAIL PROTECTED]Jenn Vespermanhttp://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues] alienation (was: Places, issues, etc)
On Wed, 3 Nov 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I'm not sure that classifying people further is the answer. Reclaiming > 'person' - or some other gender-neutral identification - might be an > answer. But having studied stereotyping, I don't think that's quite an > answer either - people stereotype because it's how our brains are wired. > We categorise and classify instinctively. Sigh. Heh...I recall having a discussion around 3-4 years ago with someone who wanted me to memorize something like nine different genders (including different ones for pre and post op transpeople, which struck me as..erm..interesting, being of the mind that asking someone if they are pre or post op is about akin to asking someone what their penis size is...except that I don't mind if someone volunteers pre/post op status, whereas I *really* don't want to know what your penis size is :) ) and use them and it just all struck me as too complicated..I can't even keep my *own* gender straight (and that was a lot more true back then, before I had nathaniel and had *you are female* shoved in my face for nine months :) )..fortunetly I haven't heard that idea since (I think maybe it was her own, though she was acting as if it were a common thing, which was part of what confused me) to me, ideally, we'd chill out on the girl/boy issue and treat everyone like individuals, but as of now, that's not really happening and I don't know how to get from here to there..I was thinking on the plane about how the human ability to generalize (i.e. to see a class of 'tree' as opposed /this object with leaves/ and /that object with leaves/) gives us so much, but screws us over with people this was going somewhere, but I forget where..oops Vinnie -- Reality is a formality, an agreed upon set of lies -- J.D. Catron Obligatory pathetic website at http://george.he.net/~drachen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues] Something I've observed
Steve Kudlak wrote: > Nicole Zimmerman wrote: > > > > There are all my opinions Steve K=Kudlaks chromexa@mry )@) sistrinution without > > > Comoros; use emvpitrsaged... > > > Hey prep feral witty Mr. do rot. > > > > > > Jab FUn, > > > > What language IS this? :o) > > > > -nicole > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org > > Been up for 40+ hours and bad week language!:) > > Have FUn, > Sends STeve > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org I could be and should have been surrealistic poetry on the gl list. Have FUn, Sends Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
