Does it make sense to translate non-mallard documentation?

2010-10-30 Thread andrej.znidar...@gmail.com
Hello !

I was wondering if you can estimate what is the level of changes going to be
during the rewrite to mallard.
Are the changes in strings going to be small, so it makes sense to translate
now and make a few fixes later, or are the changes going to be big and it is
recommended to wait until documentation is fully rewritten in mallard?

If I understand correctly all gnome documentation is going to be rewritten.
Is that also true for all gnome-extra apps ?

Regards

Andrej
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


Translating schema files (was: Re: Survey results (yay!))

2010-10-30 Thread Johannes Schmid
Hi!

> So, just stripping out the gconf/dconf schemas we are getting 17% less
> words to translate!

> If we do the same with the errors (much harder to do the analysis
> though) we could nearly shrink the number of words to translate, at
> least to 30% (so ~60k words less).
> 
> On the other side, or to further bold this argument, with the new
> moduleset proposal made by the release team, more and more applications
> are going to pop up, so more strings/words to translate...
> 
> Now that we have the numbers ... what do you think? Would it make sense
> to propose the release team to ask to create different po files
> depending on the string type (schema, error and general)?

Well, I disagree here: A complete translation of a desktop means to me
that all user-visible strings are translated. And that includes error
messages on the terminal as well as dconf schemas (that are shown at
least in dconf-editor and possibly in the to be developed GNOME
configuration tool).

The gtk+ properties are a bit different here because they are definitly
only shown to developers and not to users (except in glade, but there
user = developer).

Futher, I think extra po files complicate the build system quite a bit
and I really don't want to do that for my modules (anjuta has about 20
schema files though they aren't translated at all atm).

I feel this is the pseudo discussion for teams reaching yx % while it is
far more important that it is convenient for the user. You can have 95%
without translating nautilus and the user would still feel that half of
the translation is missing. These numbers are just for our egos...

And 6% of the strings isn't really much. The difference between
translating a word and a string is mostly marginal if the strings isn't
five sentences long.

Regards,
Johannes

___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


Re: Translating schema files (was: Re: Survey results (yay!))

2010-10-30 Thread Khaled Hosny
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 11:30:51AM +0200, Johannes Schmid wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> > So, just stripping out the gconf/dconf schemas we are getting 17% less
> > words to translate!
> 
> > If we do the same with the errors (much harder to do the analysis
> > though) we could nearly shrink the number of words to translate, at
> > least to 30% (so ~60k words less).
> > 
> > On the other side, or to further bold this argument, with the new
> > moduleset proposal made by the release team, more and more applications
> > are going to pop up, so more strings/words to translate...
> > 
> > Now that we have the numbers ... what do you think? Would it make sense
> > to propose the release team to ask to create different po files
> > depending on the string type (schema, error and general)?
> 
> Well, I disagree here: A complete translation of a desktop means to me
> that all user-visible strings are translated. And that includes error
> messages on the terminal as well as dconf schemas (that are shown at
> least in dconf-editor and possibly in the to be developed GNOME
> configuration tool).

Since Gnome does not ship with a terminal able to display Arabic
properly, translating messages on the terminal for Arabic (or any other
RTL script) is not just a waste of time but also renders these messages
useless because no one can now read them. Schema strings are visible in
the {g,d}conf-editor, right, but how many users use that tool, actually
how many distributions ship it by default? Many translation teams are
underpowered, so helping us to prioritise our work means we can have
better user experience for less work, 100% translated desktop is just
slightly better than 83% translated one when the difference is rarely
seen strings, so why waste time one this 17% when we can translate the
user manual or some other documentation for example.

> The gtk+ properties are a bit different here because they are definitly
> only shown to developers and not to users (except in glade, but there
> user = developer).
> 
> Futher, I think extra po files complicate the build system quite a bit
> and I really don't want to do that for my modules (anjuta has about 20
> schema files though they aren't translated at all atm).

If complicating an automated process is the tradeoff to helping bringing
localised Gnome to more wider audience, then I find that very
acceptable.

> I feel this is the pseudo discussion for teams reaching yx % while it is
> far more important that it is convenient for the user. You can have 95%
> without translating nautilus and the user would still feel that half of
> the translation is missing. These numbers are just for our egos...

The discussion is about helping teams to identify low priority strings
and not waste time on them when more user visible stuff is still
untranslated, so I don't see how pseudo is that.

> And 6% of the strings isn't really much. The difference between
> translating a word and a string is mostly marginal if the strings isn't
> five sentences long.

I'd not underestimate ~35k words, that is nearly two months of dedicated
work for an experienced translator.

Regards,
 Khaled

-- 
 Khaled Hosny
 Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team
 Free font developer
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


Re: Survey results (yay!)

2010-10-30 Thread Ask Hjorth Larsen
Hi

On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Khaled Hosny  wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 12:08:32AM +0100, Gil Forcada wrote:
>> El dv 29 de 10 de 2010 a les 12:52 +0200, en/na F Wolff va escriure:
>> > Op Vr, 2010-10-29 om 00:11 +0100 skryf Gil Forcada:
>> > > Hi!
>> > >
>> > > El dj 28 de 10 de 2010 a les 22:54 +0200, en/na Petr Kovar va escriure:
>> > > > Hi!
>> > > >
>> > > > Gil Forcada , Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:11:16 +0200:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Hi!
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I'm really proud (and shamed for the delay) to finally present to 
>> > > > > all of
>> > > > > you the first survey to our GNOME i18n community!
>> > > > >
>> > > > > First of all, a BIG THANK YOU!! to all coordinators who replied [0]
>> > > >
>> > > > And above all, big thank you, Gil, for this magnificent work! It really
>> > > > uncovers a lot, and enables us to think about our project management &
>> > > > planning in some quite new ways. It was a great idea to conduct such a
>> > > > survey in the first place.
>> > >
>> > > Actually I miserably fail to send the (for me, and I hope for lots of
>> > > teams also) most important point:
>> > >
>> > > In the same way that there's gtk+ and gtk+-properties, i.e. two po files
>> > > for a single module, it would be extremely useful for translators if ALL
>> > > schemas were going to a different po file and thus having a double
>> > > effect on translators:
>> > > - know which strings are actually visible to the users
>> > > - reducing a lot [1] the number of strings to translate to reach the
>> > > glorious 80%
>> > >
>> > > Cheers,
>> > >
>> > > [1] I want to gather some number to enforce my point before sending a
>> > > proposal (if as a gnome-i18n team agree on this) to the release team. If
>> > > anyone wants to spend some minutes getting this data would be lovely :)
>> >
>> > Hallo Gil
>> >
>> > Do you want to find all gconf schema strings?
>> >
>> > If that is what you want to do, it is very easy with pogrep from the
>> > Translate Toolkit:
>> > http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/pogrep
>> >
>> > If you have all the files in directory/, something like this should give
>> > you what you want:
>> >
>> >   pogrep  --search=locations  "schemas.in"  directory  gconf
>> >
>> > and the output will be written to the gconf directory, containing just
>> > the strings that have "schemas.in" in the #: lines.  Then it is easy to
>> > count the strings and words to work out the percentage:
>> > pocount gconf
>> > pocount directory
>> >
>> > That should give the answer.  I'm quite interested to know this myself!
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> Thanks for the tips, I already made the numbers:
>>
>> 3158 strings out of 45785 (6.8974%)
>> 35074 words out of 205155 (17.096%)
>>
>> So, just stripping out the gconf/dconf schemas we are getting 17% less
>> words to translate!
>>
>> If we do the same with the errors (much harder to do the analysis
>> though) we could nearly shrink the number of words to translate, at
>> least to 30% (so ~60k words less).
>>
>> On the other side, or to further bold this argument, with the new
>> moduleset proposal made by the release team, more and more applications
>> are going to pop up, so more strings/words to translate...
>>
>> Now that we have the numbers ... what do you think? Would it make sense
>> to propose the release team to ask to create different po files
>> depending on the string type (schema, error and general)?
>
> In Arabic translation, we already avoid translating schema strings and
> text that is only seen in the terminal, so anyway to make this easier
> to handle is highly appreciated (and having separate statistics helps PR
> too :).
>
> Regards,
>  Khaled

To a first approximation I think anything that is marked for
translation should be translated - that's why it's marked for
translation :).  Of course there are some exceptions relating to
names, magic keywors and such.

I think it's a very good idea to split gconf schemas into different
po-files.  Translated gconf schemas are almost worthless to the user,
and disproportionately time-consuming to the translators: They're
highly technical, contain many magic keywords, and are often worded
less well than the UI messages (more ambiguities and prolonged word
compounds).  I sometimes have the feeling that I'm translating strings
that will only be seen by the poor sod who proofreads them.

Error messages should still be translated on par with the UI in my
opinion.  A 'network error' message when the network isn't connected
is somewhat common, and technically it would be very difficult to
distinguish this kind of common error message from obscure internal
programming errors that are not expected to happen at all  And there
may not be that many of those.

Best regards
Ask
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


Re: Translating schema files (was: Re: Survey results (yay!))

2010-10-30 Thread Khaled Hosny
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 12:01:29PM +0200, Khaled Hosny wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 11:30:51AM +0200, Johannes Schmid wrote:
[...]
> > I feel this is the pseudo discussion for teams reaching yx % while it is
> > far more important that it is convenient for the user. You can have 95%
> > without translating nautilus and the user would still feel that half of
> > the translation is missing. These numbers are just for our egos...
> 
> The discussion is about helping teams to identify low priority strings
> and not waste time on them when more user visible stuff is still
> untranslated, so I don't see how pseudo is that.

Here is a real example; I just updated gnome-shell translation, the
first ~800 untranslated words are all schema strings, I would have spent
the whole day translating those, but at end of the day there will be no
visible difference to more than 90% of our users. Instead I skipped to
the actual UI strings and was able to make the Shell fully translated to
mos of our users by just translating as few as extra 40 words!

(gnome-shell is an interesting module of its own, the schema to
non-schema word count is 3 to 1!).

Regards,
 Khaled

-- 
 Khaled Hosny
 Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team
 Free font developer
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


Re: Translating schema files (was: Re: Survey results (yay!))

2010-10-30 Thread Johannes Schmid
Hi!

On Sat, 2010-10-30 at 13:46 +0200, Khaled Hosny wrote:
> Here is a real example; I just updated gnome-shell translation, the
> first ~800 untranslated words are all schema strings, I would have spent
> the whole day translating those, but at end of the day there will be no
> visible difference to more than 90% of our users. Instead I skipped to
> the actual UI strings and was able to make the Shell fully translated to
> mos of our users by just translating as few as extra 40 words!

That'S ok and reasonable but it works with the system we have now - why
should we change anything. Everybody is free to skip strings.

Regards,
Johannes

___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


Re: Translating schema files (was: Re: Survey results (yay!))

2010-10-30 Thread Ihar Hrachyshka
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 15:10, Johannes Schmid  wrote:
> Hi!
>
> On Sat, 2010-10-30 at 13:46 +0200, Khaled Hosny wrote:
>> Here is a real example; I just updated gnome-shell translation, the
>> first ~800 untranslated words are all schema strings, I would have spent
>> the whole day translating those, but at end of the day there will be no
>> visible difference to more than 90% of our users. Instead I skipped to
>> the actual UI strings and was able to make the Shell fully translated to
>> mos of our users by just translating as few as extra 40 words!
>
> That'S ok and reasonable but it works with the system we have now - why
> should we change anything. Everybody is free to skip strings.
>

Hi, I support Khaled's idea.
1) It's hard to skip schema messages now since we need to look for dev
comments for filenames and determine manually whether it's a schema
message.
2) We can't achieve 100% of UI translation without rechecking files
every time before release on possible appearance of new UI messages.
And to do it, we should use pofilter or other specific tools to filter
out unneeded strings. Instead of checking that all UI messages are
translated (100%), we check whether number of new strings for a module
changed since last check. That's not very convenient.
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


Re: Translating schema files (was: Re: Survey results (yay!))

2010-10-30 Thread Khaled Hosny
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 03:56:12PM +0300, Ihar Hrachyshka wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 15:10, Johannes Schmid  wrote:
> > Hi!
> >
> > On Sat, 2010-10-30 at 13:46 +0200, Khaled Hosny wrote:
> >> Here is a real example; I just updated gnome-shell translation, the
> >> first ~800 untranslated words are all schema strings, I would have spent
> >> the whole day translating those, but at end of the day there will be no
> >> visible difference to more than 90% of our users. Instead I skipped to
> >> the actual UI strings and was able to make the Shell fully translated to
> >> mos of our users by just translating as few as extra 40 words!
> >
> > That'S ok and reasonable but it works with the system we have now - why
> > should we change anything. Everybody is free to skip strings.
> >
> 
> Hi, I support Khaled's idea.
> 1) It's hard to skip schema messages now since we need to look for dev
> comments for filenames and determine manually whether it's a schema
> message.
> 2) We can't achieve 100% of UI translation without rechecking files
> every time before release on possible appearance of new UI messages.
> And to do it, we should use pofilter or other specific tools to filter
> out unneeded strings. Instead of checking that all UI messages are
> translated (100%), we check whether number of new strings for a module
> changed since last check. That's not very convenient.

Add to that:
3) No matter how hard I try to explain this to new translators, they
will always attempt to translate schema strings, waste their energy on
it and then run away frustrated from complexity of such strings.

Regards,
 Khaled

-- 
 Khaled Hosny
 Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team
 Free font developer
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


Re: Does it make sense to translate non-mallard documentation?

2010-10-30 Thread Gil Forcada
El ds 30 de 10 de 2010 a les 11:30 +0200, en/na
andrej.znidar...@gmail.com va escriure:
> Hello !
> 
> 
> I was wondering if you can estimate what is the level of changes going
> to be during the rewrite to mallard.
> Are the changes in strings going to be small, so it makes sense to
> translate now and make a few fixes later, or are the changes going to
> be big and it is recommended to wait until documentation is fully
> rewritten in mallard?
> 
> 
> If I understand correctly all gnome documentation is going to be
> rewritten. Is that also true for all gnome-extra apps ?

Hi,

In short yes, it doesn't make a lot of sense since the documentation
approach is different.

The gnome-extras part ... it depends on the project, it would be easier
to reach the developers (irc, mailinglist ...) and ask their intentions.

Cheers,


> Regards
> 
> 
> Andrej
> ___
> gnome-i18n mailing list
> gnome-i18n@gnome.org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n

-- 
gil forcada

[ca] guifi.net - una xarxa lliure que no para de créixer
[en] guifi.net - a non-stopping free network
bloc: http://gil.badall.net
planet: http://planet.guifi.net

___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


Re: Translating schema files (was: Re: Survey results (yay!))

2010-10-30 Thread Gil Forcada
El ds 30 de 10 de 2010 a les 11:30 +0200, en/na Johannes Schmid va
escriure:
> Hi!
> 
> > So, just stripping out the gconf/dconf schemas we are getting 17% less
> > words to translate!
> 
> > If we do the same with the errors (much harder to do the analysis
> > though) we could nearly shrink the number of words to translate, at
> > least to 30% (so ~60k words less).
> > 
> > On the other side, or to further bold this argument, with the new
> > moduleset proposal made by the release team, more and more applications
> > are going to pop up, so more strings/words to translate...
> > 
> > Now that we have the numbers ... what do you think? Would it make sense
> > to propose the release team to ask to create different po files
> > depending on the string type (schema, error and general)?
> 
> Well, I disagree here: A complete translation of a desktop means to me
> that all user-visible strings are translated. And that includes error
> messages on the terminal as well as dconf schemas (that are shown at
> least in dconf-editor and possibly in the to be developed GNOME
> configuration tool).

Yes, a *complete* translation of a desktop involves translating
everything, *but* giving early feedback and actual results is priceless
if you are two translators and one of them has to struggle with git to
send the translations.

Hopefully with Damned-Lies with git this translator will have more time
to do their job instead of opening terminals :)

> The gtk+ properties are a bit different here because they are definitly
> only shown to developers and not to users (except in glade, but there
> user = developer).

I could also go further and separate the platform as a second-step
translation, that way a translator path for reaching the glorious 100%
should be:
- translate the ui
- translate the errors
- translate the schemas
- translate the platform

> Futher, I think extra po files complicate the build system quite a bit
> and I really don't want to do that for my modules (anjuta has about 20
> schema files though they aren't translated at all atm).

Developers will have to deal with it *once* and all other maintainers
will have to do the same, so you can cherry-pick their patches.

On the other side, this 35k words are a huge effort to translate, and
even if you skip them, having all modules 80% translated doesn't help
either. If you leave the schemas untranslated you may not notice that
anjuta developers have added a couple of strings since it will be
roughly 80% translated, and thus you will be missing some strings on the
UI.

> I feel this is the pseudo discussion for teams reaching yx % while it is
> far more important that it is convenient for the user. You can have 95%
> without translating nautilus and the user would still feel that half of
> the translation is missing. These numbers are just for our egos...

Yes, if you don't translate nautilus users will have a weird experience,
but if you make the big effort to translate 35k words and the users
don't see any translated string at all, they will close the session and
use another system.

It's not about egos, it's about splitting the work into small chunks so
that translators can start working on the stuff that 99% of the users
will see and then, if they have time (note that only 50 teams out of 120
reach the 80% mark) work on adding an extended experience with schemas
and errors translated.

> And 6% of the strings isn't really much. The difference between
> translating a word and a string is mostly marginal if the strings isn't
> five sentences long.

Yes 6% isn't that much, but the same can be said to the importance of
bugs, why have it then? Everything is a bug ... but if you mark a
crasher you expect that the developers fix this bug first before fixing
a minor.

Cheers,

> Regards,
> Johannes
> 

-- 
gil forcada

[ca] guifi.net - una xarxa lliure que no para de créixer
[en] guifi.net - a non-stopping free network
bloc: http://gil.badall.net
planet: http://planet.guifi.net

___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


Re: Translating schema files

2010-10-30 Thread Sveinn í Felli

Þann lau 30.okt 2010 15:54, skrifaði Gil Forcada:

El ds 30 de 10 de 2010 a les 11:30 +0200, en/na Johannes Schmid va
escriure:

---

Hopefully with Damned-Lies with git this translator will have more time
to do their job instead of opening terminals :)



+1

---


I could also go further and separate the platform as a second-step
translation, that way a translator path for reaching the glorious 100%
should be:
- translate the ui
- translate the errors
- translate the schemas
- translate the platform



+1
Prioritizing translation work is a must. Being able to catch 
new/changed UI-strings as soon as possible is a must.


Most places I'm translating (Gnome, KDE, Openoffice/LibO, 
TP, Launchpad, etc.) there have been discussions about 
categorisation of strings, some different roads have been 
proposed, but I think the above proposition by Gil is quite 
realistic.




It's not about egos, it's about splitting the work into small chunks so
that translators can start working on the stuff that 99% of the users
will see and then, if they have time (note that only 50 teams out of 120
reach the 80% mark) work on adding an extended experience with schemas
and errors translated.


It's not about egos, it may not even be about Gnome per se; 
for many translation teams it's about user experience and to 
have a fully translated Desktop Environment (which may 
depend on more strings than come from the DE of choice).


And the users I'm mostly concerned about are *not* those who 
are likely to see much of the 'deeper' error/config messages.


Best regards,

Sveinn í Felli

___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


not UTF-8 encoded

2010-10-30 Thread Umarzuki Mochlis
When a app with warning: "PO file 'seahorse.master.ms.po' is not UTF-8
encoded." shown on vertimus page, does it means that it need to be fixed? If
so, how?

http://l10n.gnome.org/languages/ms/gnome-3-0/ui/

-- 
Regards,

Umarzuki Mochlis
http://debmal.my
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


Re: not UTF-8 encoded

2010-10-30 Thread Ihar Hrachyshka
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 21:46, Umarzuki Mochlis  wrote:
> When a app with warning: "PO file 'seahorse.master.ms.po' is not UTF-8
> encoded." shown on vertimus page, does it means that it need to be fixed? If
> so, how?
> http://l10n.gnome.org/languages/ms/gnome-3-0/ui/
>

Just set UTF-8 encoding in your PO editor as default for saving files.
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


Re: not UTF-8 encoded

2010-10-30 Thread Simos Xenitellis
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Umarzuki Mochlis wrote:

> When a app with warning: "PO file 'seahorse.master.ms.po' is not UTF-8
> encoded." shown on vertimus page, does it means that it need to be fixed? If
> so, how?
>
> http://l10n.gnome.org/languages/ms/gnome-3-0/ui/
>
>
Both PO files (seahorse, seahorse-plugins) specify the iso-8859-1 encoding
in the header.

To convert to UTF-8, you need to run

msgconv --to-code utf-8 myfilename.po > myfixedfilename.po

Now, you can open the newly created files with gtranslator, etc and start
translating.

gtranslator and probably other translation tools do not have an option to
convert encodings for PO files.

Simos
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


Re: Translating schema files (was: Re: Survey results (yay!))

2010-10-30 Thread Matej Urban
No ...

Do not split the translation.

Consider gnome-games UI and help.
Translating UI is like hell, because there are no comments and you
have to sometimes guess which game the string belongs to, but when you
finish, you push ONE file that is exactly where it should be in the
git tree. With one simple script, you can push every minute if you
wish ... no extra work.

Now you take documentation ...
Every game has its own location, which is a hell for scripts,
multiplied strings, multiplied errors ...
I was just preparing to start bugging the DL team to FORCE same
structure of translations and documentation and FORCE one file for all
translations of one project with COMMENTS! THE DL team should also
force forking master after the stable release.

The solution for the problems is lowering the bench from 80% to 70%
and maybe marking the strings schemas and so, skipping the statistics.

Splitting strings makes MORE work.

M!
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


Re: Translating schema files (was: Re: Survey results (yay!))

2010-10-30 Thread Khaled Hosny
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 10:14:36PM +0200, Matej Urban wrote:
> No ...
> 
> Do not split the translation.
> 
> Consider gnome-games UI and help.
> Translating UI is like hell, because there are no comments and you
> have to sometimes guess which game the string belongs to, but when you
> finish, you push ONE file that is exactly where it should be in the
> git tree. With one simple script, you can push every minute if you
> wish ... no extra work.

So, your scripts feel convenient and your translators are suffering, and
this is positive thing? Since you brought this to the table, that is
actually the main reason gnome-games Arabic translation have been
stagnant for several cycles now; every translator who offers to help
with it get scared from the huge file and never show up again.

Regards,
 Khaled

-- 
 Khaled Hosny
 Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team
 Free font developer
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


New team for Luganda (lg)

2010-10-30 Thread Kizito Birabwa
Kizito Birabwa
kbira...@yahoo.co.uk
Bugzilla account: kbira...@yahoo.co.uk
English name: Luganda
Native name: Liganda
ISO 639 code: lg
No mailing list at the moment
No web page at the moment


  
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


Re: Translating schema files (was: Re: Survey results (yay!))

2010-10-30 Thread Gil Forcada
El ds 30 de 10 de 2010 a les 22:14 +0200, en/na Matej Urban va escriure:
> No ...
> 
> Do not split the translation.
> 
> Consider gnome-games UI and help.
> Translating UI is like hell, because there are no comments and you
> have to sometimes guess which game the string belongs to, but when you
> finish, you push ONE file that is exactly where it should be in the
> git tree. With one simple script, you can push every minute if you
> wish ... no extra work.

That's the same rationale as Johannes argued ... changed a script it's a
one-time work, having to work with UI+schemas is a each-time consuming
job without any real benefit.

> Now you take documentation ...
> Every game has its own location, which is a hell for scripts,
> multiplied strings, multiplied errors ...
> I was just preparing to start bugging the DL team to FORCE same
> structure of translations and documentation and FORCE one file for all
> translations of one project with COMMENTS! THE DL team should also
> force forking master after the stable release.

I'm not talking about documentation, it can be perfectly kept as a
single po file, since it doesn't make any sense to split documentation
(GNOME Games is a different story and it makes sense there).

Cheers,

> The solution for the problems is lowering the bench from 80% to 70%
> and maybe marking the strings schemas and so, skipping the statistics.
> 
> Splitting strings makes MORE work.
> 
> M!

-- 
gil forcada

[ca] guifi.net - una xarxa lliure que no para de créixer
[en] guifi.net - a non-stopping free network
bloc: http://gil.badall.net
planet: http://planet.guifi.net

___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


please commit these translation

2010-10-30 Thread Umarzuki Mochlis
Hi,

Can anyone with git access help commit these:

http://l10n.gnome.org/vertimus/nautilus/master/po/ms
http://l10n.gnome.org/vertimus/gnome-screensaver/master/po/ms
http://l10n.gnome.org/vertimus/592/545/74

-- 
Regards,

Umarzuki Mochlis
http://debmal.my
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


Translation String

2010-10-30 Thread Ahmed Noor Kader Mustajir Md Eusoff
Hi,

I just want to know, if in the .po file have the string
"translator-credits", should I translate it or just add the translator name?

Regards

-- 
Ahmed Noor Kader Mustajir Md Eusoff
http://mustajir.org
http://blog.mustajir.org
http://launchpad.net/~sir.ade 
http://l10n.gnome.org/users/sir_ade/
http://drupal.org/user/184579
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


Re: Translating schema files (was: Re: Survey results (yay!))

2010-10-30 Thread Александър Шопов
Khaled,

Just do your own splitting of files. Splitting can be done with
different strategies. Schema messages apart from the rest is one
possible strategy, splitting gnome-games based on the game is another
possibility. I have done splitting of po-files based on the size of
strings for example - 1-300 chars -> 1st file, 301-500 -> 2nd file, etc.
Do you need some help with the tools? I intend to soon split schema file
from evolution to check the translations, perhaps I can share some ideas
then.

Kind regards:
al_shopov


В 22:32 +0200 на 30.10.2010 (сб), Khaled Hosny написа:
> On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 10:14:36PM +0200, Matej Urban wrote:
> > No ...
> > 
> > Do not split the translation.
> > 
> > Consider gnome-games UI and help.
> > Translating UI is like hell, because there are no comments and you
> > have to sometimes guess which game the string belongs to, but when you
> > finish, you push ONE file that is exactly where it should be in the
> > git tree. With one simple script, you can push every minute if you
> > wish ... no extra work.
> 
> So, your scripts feel convenient and your translators are suffering, and
> this is positive thing? Since you brought this to the table, that is
> actually the main reason gnome-games Arabic translation have been
> stagnant for several cycles now; every translator who offers to help
> with it get scared from the huge file and never show up again.
> 
> Regards,
>  Khaled
> 


___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


Re: Translation String

2010-10-30 Thread Ihar Hrachyshka
On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 05:45, Ahmed Noor Kader Mustajir Md Eusoff
 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I just want to know, if in the .po file have the string
> "translator-credits", should I translate it or just add the translator name?
>

http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/LocalisationGuide#A._Special_characters_in_po_files.2C_and_one_special_string
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n


Re: Translating schema files (was: Re: Survey results (yay!))

2010-10-30 Thread Ihar Hrachyshka
2010/10/31 Александър Шопов :
> Just do your own splitting of files. Splitting can be done with
> different strategies. Schema messages apart from the rest is one
> possible strategy, splitting gnome-games based on the game is another
> possibility. I have done splitting of po-files based on the size of
> strings for example - 1-300 chars -> 1st file, 301-500 -> 2nd file, etc.
> Do you need some help with the tools? I intend to soon split schema file
> from evolution to check the translations, perhaps I can share some ideas
> then.

It's not about tools. It's about:
1) statistics which are not suitable to small team goals;
2) translators which download files from Damned Lies to work on a
module and don't know anything about custom scripts/tools.

Both issues can be fixed by creating team's own infrastructure (its
own stats, its own file repository with schemas filtered out). But
then - what is Damned Lies for then? It's a bad solution for small
team - to host their own IT infrastructure.
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n